Wikipedia: as accurate as Britannica?

[Hersch]

Discuss.

[EricBarbour]

Looks good. Remember, tomorrow is President's Day in the US, so a lot of people won't be at work and web-surfing as usual, nor will many journalists be at their desks. I could post this to Slashdot, although I'd prefer to wait till Tuesday and even then it won't stand a good chance.

[Hersch]

Looks good. Remember, tomorrow is President's Day in the US, so a lot of people won't be at work and web-surfing as usual, nor will many journalists be at their desks. I could post this to Slashdot, although I'd prefer to wait till Tuesday and even then it won't stand a good chance.

I am somewhat mystified by this stuff, so I need all the advice I can get.

[EricBarbour]

I am somewhat mystified by this stuff, so I need all the advice I can get.

I clearly recall having a discussion with Andreas and others about the best time to post on the blog: late Sunday night or early Monday morning (workday, not a holiday) was the best, because so many people web-surf at work and journalists are looking for something to cover on Monday AM. Admittedly this schedule is America-centric and only works for Europe because it's 4 hours ahead of the east coast, but since most of the audience for en-WP and other major WPs is in North America and Europe, it works well enough.

[Poetlister]

Admittedly this schedule is America-centric and only works for Europe because it's 4 hours ahead of the east coast

More than that. Western Europe is 5 hours ahead, Central Europe 6 hours and Eastern Europe 7 hours. However, I think Americans turn their clocks forward before Europeans so things get confused during March.

[enwikibadscience]

Admittedly this schedule is America-centric and only works for Europe because it's 4 hours ahead of the east coast

More than that. Western Europe is 5 hours ahead, Central Europe 6 hours and Eastern Europe 7 hours. However, I think Americans turn their clocks forward before Europeans so things get confused during March.

This site seems very American post-wise timing.

[The Joy]

Admittedly this schedule is America-centric and only works for Europe because it's 4 hours ahead of the east coast

More than that. Western Europe is 5 hours ahead, Central Europe 6 hours and Eastern Europe 7 hours. However, I think Americans turn their clocks forward before Europeans so things get confused during March.

This site seems very American post-wise timing.

If only there were a "blog post alarm clock" we could use.

[Kiefer.Wolfowitz]

Excellent article, although more analysis would be useful.

The structural problems bedeviling Wikipedia are weakest in the areas that

• have projects run by academics (or persons with graduate training), and
  are difficult so that nuts and incompetent amateurs are less likely to write junk or to damage articles.

The projects in the science, logic, mathematics, and music are islands of sanity.

Research on quality projects, which are few, should not be extrapolated to evaluations of Wikipedia, which is dominated by weirdos and mediocrities writing about their obsessions with tv shows, movies, video games, sports, bacon, etc.

(The weirdos and mediocrities writing about pop-culture obsessions are a mediocre side of Wikipedia. A bad side is the social-networking power-games by teenagers and obsessives.)

[lilburne]

The projects in the science, logic, mathematics, and music are islands of sanity.

Only comparatively.

[Notvelty]

<snip neat map>

I don't know about the rest and it's a tiny proportion of the edits, but your map is dodgy for Australia.

Aside from the fact that most of the east coast maps in IPs to Sydney and most of the west and south map to Melbourne (despite being, in some cases, thousands of kilometers away), there simply aren't enough people in Alice Springs to justify any sort of red mark at all.

But, as I said, tiny portion of edits and doesn't take away from the value for the main weight of the distribution.

[Peter Damian]

Excellent article, although more analysis would be useful.

The structural problems bedeviling Wikipedia are weakest in the areas that

• have projects run by academics (or persons with graduate training), and
  are difficult so that nuts and incompetent amateurs are less likely to write junk or to damage articles.

The projects in the science, logic, mathematics, and music are islands of sanity.

Reminder to turn my attention to the logic articles this week.

[EricBarbour]

The projects in the science, logic, mathematics, and music are islands of sanity.

I beg to differ, sir. Strenuously.

[SB_Johnny]

The projects in the science, logic, mathematics, and music are islands of sanity.

I beg to differ, sir. Strenuously.

Someone who understands the stuff better than I could probably write a great blog post (if not a dissertation) on WP's plant taxonomy wars between the traditionalists, the adherents to APGII, and the prognosticators of APGIII went to battle in 2007/8/9 (don't ask, just plant nerd stuff). WP's taxonomy trees are as likely to reflect some nutter's wild theory as they are the actual state of the science.

[Kiefer.Wolfowitz]

Okay, mathematics and music theory are islands of sanity....

[Ming]

The projects in the science, logic, mathematics, and music are islands of sanity.

I beg to differ, sir. Strenuously.

Someone who understands the stuff better than I could probably write a great blog post (if not a dissertation) on WP's plant taxonomy wars between the traditionalists, the adherents to APGII, and the prognosticators of APGIII went to battle in 2007/8/9 (don't ask, just plant nerd stuff). WP's taxonomy trees are as likely to reflect some nutter's wild theory as they are the actual state of the science.

It's getting difficult to tell whether anything in plant taxonomy is "some nutter's wild theory" or not. Ming did a few species articles but largely threw in the towel after all the renamings and taxonomical overhauls. Of course the taxobox template is firmly wedded to the Linneaen system.

[SB_Johnny]

The projects in the science, logic, mathematics, and music are islands of sanity.

I beg to differ, sir. Strenuously.

Someone who understands the stuff better than I could probably write a great blog post (if not a dissertation) on WP's plant taxonomy wars between the traditionalists, the adherents to APGII, and the prognosticators of APGIII went to battle in 2007/8/9 (don't ask, just plant nerd stuff). WP's taxonomy trees are as likely to reflect some nutter's wild theory as they are the actual state of the science.

It's getting difficult to tell whether anything in plant taxonomy is "some nutter's wild theory" or not. Ming did a few species articles but largely threw in the towel after all the renamings and taxonomical overhauls. Of course the taxobox template is firmly wedded to the Linneaen system.

I think it's in part because the system tends to change every time someone writes their dissertation. The problem with WP is that you're never sure which system or combination of systems is being applied.

[Hex]

Someone who understands the stuff better than I could probably write a great blog post (if not a dissertation) on WP's plant taxonomy wars between the traditionalists, the adherents to APGII, and the prognosticators of APGIII went to battle in 2007/8/9 (don't ask, just plant nerd stuff). WP's taxonomy trees are as likely to reflect some nutter's wild theory as they are the actual state of the science.

It's getting difficult to tell whether anything in plant taxonomy is "some nutter's wild theory" or not. Ming did a few species articles but largely threw in the towel after all the renamings and taxonomical overhauls. Of course the taxobox template is firmly wedded to the Linneaen system.

I think it's in part because the system tends to change every time someone writes their dissertation. The problem with WP is that you're never sure which system or combination of systems is being applied.

A decade of arguments, and still going strong.

[enwikibadscience]

The projects in the science, logic, mathematics, and music are islands of sanity.

I beg to differ, sir. Strenuously.

Thank you.

[enwikibadscience]

The projects in the science, logic, mathematics, and music are islands of sanity.

I beg to differ, sir. Strenuously.

Someone who understands the stuff better than I could probably write a great blog post (if not a dissertation) on WP's plant taxonomy wars between the traditionalists, the adherents to APGII, and the prognosticators of APGIII went to battle in 2007/8/9 (don't ask, just plant nerd stuff). WP's taxonomy trees are as likely to reflect some nutter's wild theory as they are the actual state of the science.

Courtesy largely of DYK and with spreading by Cwmhiraeth (T-C-L), gastropods and bats are also disasters. Cwmhiraeth, in fact, just makes it up and wings it when the taxonomies are confusing. She can't follow a Linnean taxonomy scheme, so she can't read what she put in the taxobox. She often begins a paragraph in one taxonomic system, the continues the phylogenics, without understanding what that or taxonomy means, in another section with a different taxonomy as if it was the same one.

And, like all of Wikipedia, there is not a single editor or admin, knowing that she does this, who is willing to stop her from getting thousands of views on the main page for what she makes up.

[EricBarbour]

You could also add the "Aussie WP mafia" and their fondness for banksia plants (especially Cas Liber). You can also add the now-former administrator Brian "EncycloPetey" Speer, a UC Berkeley botanist, and his fondness for hornworts. And fighting over hornwort articles.

There's some "bias" for you. Administrators can write whatever specialized content they want, and make it stick. Non-administrators have no rights or protections at all.

[enwikibadscience]

You could also add the "Aussie WP mafia" and their fondness for banksia plants (especially Cas Liber). You can also add the now-former administrator Brian "EncycloPetey" Speer, a UC Berkeley botanist, and his fondness for hornworts. And fighting over hornwort articles.

There's some "bias" for you. Administrators can write whatever specialized content they want, and make it stick. Non-administrators have no rights or protections at all.

Banksia is a favorite and interesting plant in Australia, and those articles seem accurate. Berkeley is a leading center for research in hornworts and related plants. I do not know if EncycloPetey's hornworts are accurate or not, but, whatever his biases, he has knowledge in his area.

I think a bias that produces well-written articles is not as bad as a bias that creates a community around the protection of bad science, like Cwmhiraeth's made up information. At least Petey knows what taxonomy means. Cwmhiraeth should not be writing anything about taxonomy, instead she is writing hundreds of articles each year on a subject area in which she is completely without knowledge.

[HRIP7]

This blog post has a link in Marty Kaplan's article "E-n-c-y-c-l-o-p-æ-d-i-a", published yesterday by The Huffington Post and a few other outlets.

[EricBarbour]

This blog post has a link in Marty Kaplan's article "E-n-c-y-c-l-o-p-æ-d-i-a", published yesterday by The Huffington Post and a few other outlets.

Hah. For someone to say that on Huffpost a few years ago would have been unthinkable. We're also seeing fewer and fewer of those idiotic "everything I need to know about life I learned on Wikipedia" editorials and blog posts.

[Mancunium]

Britain Trusts Britannica; Encyclopedia More Trusted than Rivals, Media, Major Professions
The president of Encyclopaedia Britannica®, Inc. today spoke out about a widely overlooked piece of research that reveals a high degree of trust in his company’s handiwork among the British public.
PR Web (press release), 23 October 2014 linkhttp://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/10/prweb12271435.htm[/link]

[...] In a survey conducted recently by YouGov.co.uk, 87 percent of British respondents reported having a significant measure of faith in the truthfulness of Encyclopaedia Britannica, 20 percent more than for Wikipedia and the top British media outlets. [...] Recent years have seen a surge in enthusiasm for “crowdsourcing,” a highly open form of online collaboration used by Wikipedia and other websites, in which many far-flung Internet users are allowed to participate in the creation and editing of content without regard to their experience or qualifications. The theory, sometimes referred to as “the wisdom of crowds,” is that the large number of contributors will compensate for deficiencies in their individual competencies, producing work of good quality. But as reports have surfaced about the problems with crowdsourcing—which include vandalism, bias, poor writing, and a high error rate—they appear to have reinforced confidence in publications such as Britannica, which practice rigorous editorial methods, using qualified scholars and writers, extensive manuscript review and revision, and thorough fact checking. [...] The most striking difference between the two online encyclopedias was in the highest category, 35% having a great deal of trust in Britannica as compared with 7% for Wikipedia. Britannica also scored high marks among young people (ages 18-24 and 25-39), dispelling the commonplace myth that these groups prefer newer websites over established sources. [...]

Britain Trusts Britannica: linkhttp://corporate.britannica.com/wp-cont ... rust-4.pdf[/link]

[Johnny Au]

At least Britannica does not cover specific Pokémon species, specific Simpsons episodes, specific seasons of specific semi-professional sports teams, specific freeways, or specific rapid transit stations.

[Poetlister]

At least Britannica does not cover specific Pokémon species, specific Simpsons episodes, specific seasons of specific semi-professional sports teams, specific freeways, or specific rapid transit stations.

To be fair to Wikipedia, after you've discarded all the silly articles it is stil bigger than Britannica and has a great deal of information that Britannica does not. If only someone could discard the junk and polish up the huge number of inferior articles, we'd have something really useful. Obviously, the resources required would be huge.

[Johnny Au]

At least Britannica does not cover specific Pokémon species, specific Simpsons episodes, specific seasons of specific semi-professional sports teams, specific freeways, or specific rapid transit stations.

To be fair to Wikipedia, after you've discarded all the silly articles it is stil bigger than Britannica and has a great deal of information that Britannica does not. If only someone could discard the junk and polish up the huge number of inferior articles, we'd have something really useful. Obviously, the resources required would be huge.

Of course Wikipedia is a great encyclopedia. I learn so much from it. I enjoy WikiGnoming. Unfortunately, it is full of junk, cruft that interests very few people, and bad governance.

[Vigilant]

At least Britannica does not cover specific Pokémon species, specific Simpsons episodes, specific seasons of specific semi-professional sports teams, specific freeways, or specific rapid transit stations.

To be fair to Wikipedia, after you've discarded all the silly articles it is stil bigger than Britannica and has a great deal of information that Britannica does not. If only someone could discard the junk and polish up the huge number of inferior articles, we'd have something really useful. Obviously, the resources required would be huge.

Of course Wikipedia is a great encyclopedia. I learn so much from it. I enjoy WikiGnoming. Unfortunately, it is full of junk, cruft that interests very few people, and bad governance.

And assholes.

[lilburne]

If only someone could discard the junk and polish up the huge number of inferior articles, we'd have something really useful. Obviously, the resources required would be huge.

Junk or inferior? Who can tell.

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