Tamzin RfA
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Tamzin, the desysoper. How does that sound?
Populations dont like wars. They have to be fooled into wars.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Uh oh.
Someone's been inflating their edit counts with automated tools to win at RfA?!
So much for due diligence at RfA on en.wp.
Xtools
Someone's been inflating their edit counts with automated tools to win at RfA?!
Say it ain't so, Joe!Tamzin's actual contribution count
I attempted to go through Tamzin's recent contributions and this way get an idea of both her editing skills and her topics of interest, given that she has seemingly amassed over 30,000 edits. To my surprise, the majority of her recent edits turned out to be automated clicks, mostly using such scripts as AWB/JWB and Twinkle. Digging further, I saw that the account has barely 4,915 non-automated edits to the mainspace,[1] and this number very likely also includes the 1,449 new page patrolling actions.
So, this leaves us with rather few content edits. Stats show that just 557 of her edits are 1,000 bytes or more, and it appears most are automated AfD notifications.
I don't mean that Tamzin has no editing experience; she does have some – she has created 8 stubs and, very recently, two pages with more substantial content.[2].
Yet – is it only me, or do others also feel that this is a rather limited content experience for someone who intends to work in arbitration enforcement area? — kashmīrī TALK 15:38, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
So much for due diligence at RfA on en.wp.
Xtools
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Seems like a rat-poking hit job by right-of-center stooges!!Vigilant wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 4:48 pmUh oh.
Someone's been inflating their edit counts with automated tools to win at RfA?!
Re: Tamzin RfA
Honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised by that. I'd expect pretty much any RfA to be roughly the same. I don't have hard stats to back it up and I'm not dedicated enough to look it up, but it's probably an exception to have someone with more non-automated edits. Heck, Tamzin has more non-automated mainspace edits now than I had total when I went through mine. That really seems like grasping at straws to me.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
I bet most modern RfA candidates have more non-automated mainspace edits than that.Ansh666 wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 5:41 pmHonestly, I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised by that. I'd expect pretty much any RfA to be roughly the same. I don't have hard stats to back it up and I'm not dedicated enough to look it up, but it's probably an exception to have someone with more non-automated edits. Heck, Tamzin has more non-automated mainspace edits now than I had total when I went through mine. That really seems like grasping at straws to me.
Certainly, more than 8 stubs...
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
Re: Tamzin RfA
Colin M (T-C-L) - 4,239 (69.2%) linkVigilant wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 6:42 pmI bet most modern RfA candidates have more non-automated mainspace edits than that.Ansh666 wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 5:41 pmHonestly, I'm not sure why anyone would be surprised by that. I'd expect pretty much any RfA to be roughly the same. I don't have hard stats to back it up and I'm not dedicated enough to look it up, but it's probably an exception to have someone with more non-automated edits. Heck, Tamzin has more non-automated mainspace edits now than I had total when I went through mine. That really seems like grasping at straws to me.
Certainly, more than 8 stubs...
Sdrqaz (T-C-L) - 8,743 (65.3%) link
Firefly (T-C-L) - 2,213 (34.3%) link
Modussiccandi (T-C-L) - 6,170 (64.7%) link
Ifnord (T-C-L) - 3,173 (12.9%) link
theleekycauldron (T-C-L) - 2,920 (76.6%) link
Huh, you may be right. Makes me wonder why my high non-automated percentage was brought up as an amazing feat, but then again I haven't been paying attention to RfA that much over the years (and I never really cared about edit count/content creation anyways).
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Sideswipe9th (T-C-L)
This is some bullshit
This is some bullshit
Who is badgering here?As one of the editors who believed, and still believes that Hammersoft's conduct amounted to bullying, I disagree wholeheartedly that asking Hammersoft to withdraw those remarks amounted to badgering.
Consider the words that Hammersoft wrote:
* "This lock-step belief that a person can't be trusted if they have political views opposing the candidate's isn't just troubling, it's disgusting in the extreme." - Hammersoft calls Tamzin's beliefs "disgusting in the extreme". A personal attack.
* "That we would embolden a member of this community with such despicable views is horrifying" - Hammersoft calls Tamzin's views "despicable" and "horrifying." Another personal attack.
* "@Tamzin: I noted above that I would prefer you to withdraw this candidacy." - Hammersoft pings Tamzin, to ensure that they have seen this and the prior replies
* "If this RfA were to start over with this revelation in place, I dare say it's clear it would not pass." Hammersoft predicts an alternate future that is detremental to Tamzin
* "But, do you really want to be an administrator given that the community, since the revelation, is clearly not supporting you?" Hammersoft opines that the community as a whole is not supporting Tamzin, in an attempt to pressure them to withdraw.
Next, consider our no personal attacks policy. Right there in the lead it says "Do not make personal attacks anywhere on Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor." Emphasis from the original text. Hammersoft's first two comments are in a strict violation of that. They are describing a contributors beliefs as "despicable", "horrifying", and "disgusting in the extreme". Given the egregiousness of these attacks, in any other context one editor saying this about another would be grounds for a warning at best, and a block at worst. However, Hammersoft is not just a run of the mill editor, they are an administrator. As such, they are held to a higher standard of conduct.
Next, take a look at Hammersoft's user page. It lists 10 principles that Hammersoft believes should be applied to all editors. Now look at principle 9, which states civility is "One of the least enforced but most critical policies on the project". You cannot be civil when engaging in a personal attack against another editor.
Finally, please look at Hammersoft's recall page. It lists five criteria. Number 1 is "Communication is key; if you feel that I have acted inappropriately, discuss the issue with me first. As with all things, I will be responsive." When I and other editors challenged what Hammersoft had said, particularly subsequent to the reply where Tamzin was pinged and pressured into withdrawing, we were fulfilling step 1 of their recall criteria. I was not satisfied with the response, in particular I was aghast by Hammersoft's suggestion that what was written was "not bullying. It is calling it what it is." I have seen, and been subject to that specific terminology "I am just calling it like it is" by many bullies in my life. To see an administrator use it unironically was beyond the pale for me. So I did what step 2 of Hammersoft's recall criteria states "If that does not resolve the issue, elevate the issue to WP:AN/I. I will participate in the discussion." citing WP:ADMINCOND, as this was a conduct issue and not an accountability one. The difference between WP:ADMINCOND and WP:ADMINACCT is that ACCT involves use of the administrator toolset, whereas COND refers to all conduct.
When all of this is considered as a whole; the personal attacks, pressuring an RfA candidate to withdraw, and downplaying the severity of what was written, it was and remains in my opinion nothing short of bullying. While each individual constituent part is bad, it is only when the three are combined that I would describe it as such. If you remove any one of the three parts, be it the personal attacks, the downplaying of the personal attacks, or the pressuring on the candidate to withdraw, it would cease to be bullying, and be something more specific to what exactly was said. But as a whole, it is bullying.
While Hammersoft did not have a chance to respond to the ANI thread before it was closed, they did withdraw the remarks and apologise to Tamzin. As I said on Hammersoft's talk page last night, while I am grateful for the withdrawal of the remarks, I am still very concerned at the impact Hammersoft's choice of words has had, both physically and emotionally on Tamzin. In Tamzin's own words "1) The initial characterizations of my views as "despicable" and "disgusting" hurt me. 2) I was upset by the decision to ping me while I was already under a good deal of stress, especially since it served to call attention back to that initial statement."
I am not alone in thinking that the words that Hammersoft wrote are far below the standards expected of an administrator. We all need to remember that there is another person at the end of every username and IP address. Words have power, particularly so when someone is under a great deal of stress, like in an RfA. We all should consider what impact the words we chose will have upon the recipients after we click the publish button. And when any of us says something that is hurtful to another, regardless of whether it was deliberate or unintended, having someone say "Hey, those words are inappropriate. They are a personal attack. Would you please strike them?" is not badgering. It is accountability. Sideswipe9th (talk) 18:47, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Here comes some more bullshit
And here comes the UCoCk rationale, right on time.
Names to faces
Website
Twitter
Beggary
And here comes the UCoCk rationale, right on time.
TheresNoTime (T-C-L)I'm asking Marchjuly to substantiate their accusation. The fact you, as an admin, even made those comments in relation to another editor because of a fucking political belief is beyond the pale. And is contrary to UCoC § 3.1 - the more you know eh! — TNT (talk • she/her) 02:41, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Names to faces
Website
Beggary
Last edited by Vigilant on Mon May 02, 2022 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
You want to play the hammer, you get your turn to play the nail.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
I feel a little uncomfortable coming here now
Populations dont like wars. They have to be fooled into wars.
Re: Tamzin RfA
What physical impact could there possibly have been?Sideswipe9th wrote:I am still very concerned at the impact Hammersoft's choice of words has had, both physically and emotionally on Tamzin.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Crat chat current standings:
5 to promote
2 no consensus to promote
5 might get around to saying something later
3 recused (kind of)
5 to promote
2 no consensus to promote
5 might get around to saying something later
3 recused (kind of)
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Biblomaniac's analysis is compelling:
"Crats are not tasked with evaluating the candidate, only the consensus, and I think this makes a strong case that consensus is to promote.despite all but 2 of the opposes (110 opposes) coming after Q14 (around 15 of which were converts from support/neutral), 153 supports came in after Q14 was posted and about 60 supporters (forgive me if I'm off by a few) pre-Q14 reaffirmed their support (about 10 users reaffirmed their !votes after Q14 was posted as well). Even if all of the supporters pre-Q14 who didn't reaffirm their support had their votes stricken, the percentage still would have been about 65.5%. In other words, the RFA still would have been at the discretionary range (although I don't think that hypothetical discussion would have passed). My point is that this is not a case where Tamzin just had an early lead, and the opposes were unlucky to have caught a big mistake halfway into the RFA. If this was the case, no one should have reaffirmed their supports or supported after the fact; that would be a case where there is no consensus to promote. But it seems to me that a substantial number of people did reassess the situation and decided that the candidate was still trustworthy. With this in mind, I believe that there is a consensus to promote.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom
Re: Tamzin RfA
Tamzin’s former roommate is aggressively going after an influential oppose voter and demanding they resign and pointing to the UCOC.
She goes on to say “ I don't wish to interact with you other than as strictly necessary by policy.” This seems like a promising approach. I’ve half a mind to drop that on an asshole like Bbb23’s page and then cry violence and harassment if they ever block me.TNT wrote:Do you honestly believe your behaviour "models appropriate standards of courtesy and civility to other editors" as stated at WP:ADMINCOND?? Resign.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Warofdreams also thinks there is a consensus to promote, but it is not affecting the tally for some reason.
Edit: It does now.
Edit: It does now.
Last edited by Scorpions13256 on Mon May 02, 2022 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tamzin RfA
Are these warnings in any way binding or meaningful?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TheresNoTime/dni
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TheresNoTime/dni
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Re: Tamzin RfA
I'm not a huge fan of the whole "names to faces" thing, but all three of the websites Vig linked to publicly declare the connection and use that image.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom
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Re: Tamzin RfA
I would assume they are just documenting that they asked not to communicate with those users, making a convenient pointer if needed in the future.MrErnie wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:20 pmAre these warnings in any way binding or meaningful?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TheresNoTime/dni
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom
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Re: Tamzin RfA
He may have been referring to some info that he posted about Uswer:Sideswipe9th, which was also publicly available, but would have required a Google search. So I removed that, which should not be taken as an endorsement of Sideswipe9th's badgering of Mr. Hammersoft, as it was not only egregious, it was about 5 paragraphs longer than necessary.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:22 pmI'm not a huge fan of the whole "names to faces" thing, but all three of the websites Vig linked to publicly declare the connection and use that image.
If TNT (who is also a member here) requests that we remove their photo, we'll probably go ahead and do that too, but it's actually kind of a nice photo.
Re: Tamzin RfA
I mean, we both know it would've happened even if they weren't, so its moot. Its creep shit, intimidation and power stuff. Letting everyone know what happens when you do something "wrong."Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:22 pmI'm not a huge fan of the whole "names to faces" thing, but all three of the websites Vig linked to publicly declare the connection and use that image.
The demographics of WPO are self selecting in that regard. Not a lot of people want to be stalked.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Feel free to use the ignore button or you can leave entirely.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Strange that nobody but those two were being an asshole to hammersoft, hmmm? What could the connection?Parabola wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:33 pmI mean, we both know it would've happened even if they weren't, so its moot. Its creep shit, intimidation and power stuff. Letting everyone know what happens when you do something "wrong."Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:22 pmI'm not a huge fan of the whole "names to faces" thing, but all three of the websites Vig linked to publicly declare the connection and use that image.
The demographics of WPO are self selecting in that regard. Not a lot of people want to be stalked.
Behave like an entitled asshole to reasonable people and you get what you get.
It’s so funny that you’re still here.
How can we miss you if you won’t leave?
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
Re: Tamzin RfA
WPO is very very tame compared to its predecessor.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
The Quackers should increase the frequency of their "Rufflin' feathers assemblies" to at least twice monthly.
It appears to be most salubrious, leading to such circulation of goodwill and happy-bile that everyone watching is replenished with strong whiffs of wiki-clue.
It even appears to have some secondary effects here.
It appears to be most salubrious, leading to such circulation of goodwill and happy-bile that everyone watching is replenished with strong whiffs of wiki-clue.
It even appears to have some secondary effects here.
Last edited by Bezdomni on Mon May 02, 2022 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
los auberginos
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Re: Tamzin RfA
TNT is aware of this discussion per her most recent edit. I am not sure why I am not on that dni list, as she has also told me not to contact her.
Re: Tamzin RfA
When the explicit reason for posting it is that, and I quote, "Behave like an entitled asshole to reasonable people and you get what you get. " I don't really think it's appropriate to hem and haw about whether TNT actually appreciates it being posted?Midsize Jake wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:31 pmIf TNT (who is also a member here) requests that we remove their photo, we'll probably go ahead and do that too, but it's actually kind of a nice photo.
Seriously, you and the other mods seem genuinely interested in attracting more interesting posters to WPO, which is always how I've interpreted the "extra courtesy to people who actually register here", and thats rad. But you have to realize that Kiwi Farmer John is one of the reasons this place turns people off, right? WPOs own missing stair.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
It's a difficult balance in the best of situations, but we (or I, at least) just have to accept that this place isn't always going to be fun and games. More to the point though, we don't know User:Sideswipe9th, like, at all, so we err on the side of caution with her, whereas we do know User:TNT well enough to know that the real person behind the account isn't bothered by this sort of thing much, if at all.
There's also the double-bind problem to consider. While it might have been better if Mr. Vigilant hadn't posted that photo from Twitter and/or the links in the first place, once he did, our removing it/them might have given people the impression that posting such things is an effective form of intimidation in TNT's case. It's not, but if people gain that impression it only makes more trouble and hassle for us.
Obviously this makes it seem like there's more going on, mentally/intellectually speaking, in moderating this site than there actually is — because in reality, I'm basically a total cretin. But our readers didn't necessarily know that, at least not until just now, when I posted it.
Re: Tamzin RfA
'm sympathetic to that reasoning, but imo its easily solvable with clarity and transparent. The worry arises from the fact that the outward apparatus of moderation requires people to confirm that a post makes them uncomfortable. But when someone posts some shit like that, that is obviously and plainly retaliatory and intimidating (in this case, we have literal textual confirmation), theres nothing stopping a moderator from stepping in and making it clear the removal is their own discretion.Midsize Jake wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 10:29 pmIt's a difficult balance in the best of situations, but we (or I, at least) just have to accept that this place isn't always going to be fun and games. More to the point though, we don't know User:Sideswipe9th, like, at all, so we err on the side of caution with her, whereas we do know User:TNT well enough to know that the real person behind the account isn't bothered by this sort of thing much, if at all.
There's also the double-bind problem to consider. While it might have been better if Mr. Vigilant hadn't posted that photo from Twitter and/or the links in the first place, once he did, our removing it/them might have given people the impression that posting such things is an effective form of intimidation in TNT's case. It's not, but if people gain that impression it only makes more trouble and hassle for us.
Obviously this makes it seem like there's more going on, mentally/intellectually speaking, in moderating this site than there actually is — because in reality, I'm basically a total cretin. But our readers didn't necessarily know that, at least not until just now, when I posted it.
Ive always found the house moderation style here, silent and discrete, interesting and surprisingly effective, but it's clear its not really helpful in these instances. A plurality of tools better fits the craftsman.
Re: Tamzin RfA
It's extremely fucking creepy, and it's an attempt at bullying. It should be removed, but if not that, at least toss the one and only person here who regularly does this.
Re: Tamzin RfA
I was trying to avoid continuing our silly slap fight, but, apologies to everyone else, I think a coda is on order, to clear up a misconception.Vigilant wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 9:36 pmStrange that nobody but those two were being an asshole to hammersoft, hmmm? What could the connection?
Behave like an entitled asshole to reasonable people and you get what you get.
It’s so funny that you’re still here.
How can we miss you if you won’t leave?
I like this website. Opinions on you are not inextricable from those on WPO, no matter how much your posting has worked to cement you as the main character. I simply, honestly, believe the story deserves an ensemble cast, instead of its unreliable narrator.
Re: Tamzin RfA
This is very spot-on.iii wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:28 amWikipedia is only "run" by extreme left wingers to the extent that they've been playing along and chipping away at the policy edges more successfully than their right wing counterparts. But let's be clear, Wikipedia is actually run by a self-appointed mob that curates participation through political lenses both written ("NO LEGAL THREATS", "NOT CENSORED", "NO ADVERTISING") and unwritten. The only WPians who have staying power are those who cultishly agree to uphold the status quo and only budge Overton Windows ever so slightly over years and sometimes decades. The House POV inertia is such that affecting it can only be done through long and subtle processes. Right now, the Trumpers absolutely are marginalized on the website. This is hardly surprising because the Wikipedia endeavor is pretty orthogonal to the normal goals of Trumpers. I am sure they would like to control certain content and use Wikipedia for dissemination of their propaganda, but they're more-or-less uninterested in playing along with the insipid Wikipedia collegiality that is demanded to shore up support. Those that have seen moderate success have usually done so by adopting the concern troll and devil's advocate positions... a look that currently seems to me to be out of fashion for the right wing operatives.
I'll freely admit now, there was nothing quite like the joy of plinking a right-winger off the game board back in the day. ChildofMidnight, Grundle, Wumbolo...good times.
"The world needs bad men. We keep the other bad men from the door."
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Perhaps not a good comparison. Rexxs had evidenced civility issues in his rfa, but nobody posting in Tamzin's rfa could find a politically biased edit from her or a political talk page scrap.Vigilant wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 2:43 amI predict Tamzin will get the tools but with a big * next to their name.
Given their temperament, within two years, they'll be at ARBCOM for getting in a predictably stupid tussle over political articles and then they'll lose the tools and there will be crying and rending of clothes and sackcloth and ashes to rival even Rexxs.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
The fight will be over a political topic with lots of pointing back to Q14.Evangelical wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 12:10 amPerhaps not a good comparison. Rexxs had evidenced civility issues in his rfa, but nobody posting in Tamzin's rfa could find a politically biased edit from her or a political talk page scrap.Vigilant wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 2:43 amI predict Tamzin will get the tools but with a big * next to their name.
Given their temperament, within two years, they'll be at ARBCOM for getting in a predictably stupid tussle over political articles and then they'll lose the tools and there will be crying and rending of clothes and sackcloth and ashes to rival even Rexxs.
The results will be the same.
The crying will be similar to when Rexxs was kicked off the island.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
7 votes to promote.
That's the end of the question.
That's the end of the question.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
Re: Tamzin RfA
I think you're pretty creepy too, but I haven't moderated you either.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
If promoted, I have a cool trick in mind to avoid getting desysopped for saying controversial political things. Bet you'll never guess what it is.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Self-control is trait worth cultivating.Tamzin, reluctantly wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 2:09 amIf promoted, I have a cool trick in mind to avoid getting desysopped for saying controversial political things. Bet you'll never guess what it is.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
Re: Tamzin RfA
Go inactive and resign your tools in protest at a WMF controversy that has nothing to do with you?Tamzin, reluctantly wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 2:09 amIf promoted, I have a cool trick in mind to avoid getting desysopped for saying controversial political things. Bet you'll never guess what it is.
or was that just me? hm.
Either way, congratulations, I guess?
Last edited by Ansh666 on Tue May 03, 2022 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
I didn't though?Dennis Brown wrote: ↑Mon May 02, 2022 11:15 am
you can't say "anyone right of center" should be desysopped.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
I guess its the system working correctly that the bureaucrats with a clue are winning out, but its extremely funny how this specific crat chat has brought out some incredibly strange ideas from some of the more obscure ones.
there won't be any cultural momentum to look into this until that sort of thing tanks a crat chat, but codifying that 'reaffirmations' are now a real thing crats take into account is funny, in sad way
there won't be any cultural momentum to look into this until that sort of thing tanks a crat chat, but codifying that 'reaffirmations' are now a real thing crats take into account is funny, in sad way
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Re: Tamzin RfA
I hope you no longer feel oppressed.Tamzin, reluctantly wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 2:09 amIf promoted, I have a cool trick in mind to avoid getting desysopped for saying controversial political things. Bet you'll never guess what it is.
Populations dont like wars. They have to be fooled into wars.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Only if you think I'm actually not in control of what I post.Tamzin, reluctantly wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 2:13 amThat is the most ironic thing you've said to me since "You need therapy", Vig.
Otherwise, it's a combination of wishful thinking and ignorance.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
Re: Tamzin RfA
There are nearly one thousand deleted posts in our oubliette which suggest otherwise.Vigilant wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 2:38 amOnly if you think I'm actually not in control of what I post.Tamzin, reluctantly wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 2:13 amThat is the most ironic thing you've said to me since "You need therapy", Vig.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Why Egg, however can you see that?
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: Tamzin RfA
Oh no! Some dilligent sleuth has uncovered the mental illness that I disclose on a page linked to in my acceptance statement, a page which has received over 1,000 views since the RfA started?
This is truly too much to bear. I shall RtV in shame immediately.
This is truly too much to bear. I shall RtV in shame immediately.
Last edited by Tamzin, reluctantly on Tue May 03, 2022 3:21 am, edited 2 times in total.