Fram blocked by User:WMFOffice for 1 year

chad100 · Unread post by **chad100** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:47 pm

Under Office action policy, Fram has been banned by the Wikimedia Foundation from editing the English Wikipedia for a period of one year.

Please address any questions to caAt sign.pngwikimedia.org.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fram
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Fram

Blocked, expires 10 June 2020 at 17:41. (account creation blocked, email disabled, cannot edit own talk page) Reason: This user has been banned by the Wikimedia Foundation from editing the English Wikipedia for a period of 1 year, consistent with the Terms of Use. Please address any questions to ca@wikimedia.org.

Mason · Unread post by **Mason** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:09 pm

The cynic in me wonders if the WMF is about to roll out a particularly shitty version of Flow or Visual Editor and doesn't want to hear the caustic point-by-point critiques of the functionality Fram is well known for offering.

And only 1 year... I don't think I've seen a time-limited SanFranBan before; has anyone else?

Katie · Unread post by **Katie** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:16 pm

I certainly haven't: previously all WMF bans were forever from what I know, no appeals allowed.

C&B · Unread post by **C&B** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:24 pm

Mason wrote:The cynic in me wonders if the WMF is about to roll out a particularly shitty version of Flow or Visual Editor and doesn't want to hear the caustic point-by-point critiques of the functionality Fram is well known for offering.

And only 1 year... I don't think I've seen a time-limited SanFranBan before; has anyone else?

It's been pointed out on WP:BN that they gave themselves that right in January.

MoldyHay · Unread post by **MoldyHay** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:04 pm

Good riddance.

Also,

C&B · Unread post by **C&B** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:06 pm

Too bad it's soon gonna get overturned when arbcom threatens a mass resignation; this is just the WMF chancing their arm and getting a free tattoo for their pains.

The Garbage Scow · Unread post by **The Garbage Scow** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:10 pm

Banned from en-wiki only, so he could take up residence on Commons or elsewhere

chad100 · Unread post by **chad100** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:12 pm

What did Fram do ?

el84 · Unread post by **el84** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:15 pm

He has been blocked so he can concentrate on his favourite wiki, Wikidata.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:29 pm

Wow.

That's ham fisted.

Maybe Sheikh Lomax and the Swivel-Eyed Loon can entice him into joining the lolsuit...

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:31 pm

What are the odds that some weasel on ARBCOM cried to the WMF and got this done?

Also, shades of SUP4RPR0T3CT from the Visual Edsel days...

Edit:
Just saw this line at BN

Iridescent wrote:In the absence of any explanation, the cynic in me guesses that at some point in the next 12 months the WMF are going to reattempt to introduce the forced integration of either Wikidata, VisualEditor or Superprotect, and are trying to pre-emptively nobble the most vocal critic of forced changes to the interface. ‑ Iridescent 19:25, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Something stinks like the Mo:leMan in here

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:41 pm

Trust and Safety made the change to policy in February
https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... d=18840083

Made by Oliver Keyes' old fuck buddy, Karen Brown aka Fluffernutter.
Another of the deep old ones.

She works for

Jan Eissfeldt
Lead Manager of Trust and Safety (Contractor), Trust and Safety

Nice that they're outsourcing their first line management responsibilities too...

From his user page...

About me
Moin, I'm Jan. In my volunteer capacity, you can find me as Jan eissfeldt. I started contributing to Wikipedia - first and foremost to its German language version - in March 2004 and tend to edit topics related to philosophy of language, logics, macroeconomics, and philosophy of science in English, German or Spanish. However, you may also encounter me working on articles concerning philosophical aspects of the differences between common and civil law; an issue heavily interacting with my preferred academic pet: argumentation theory.

Oh son, how nice that your day job will now converge with your hobby so perfectly and infinitely...

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:46 pm

Hey Crow,

The reason people are going to bat for Fram and not Abd is a combination of things that you folks at sucks just can't grok.
Competence and personal relationships.

I know you can look those two things up, but they appear to make as much sense to you guys as infrared to yappy dogs.

Auggie · Unread post by **Auggie** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:12 pm

haha active user since 2005 and flip a switch and gone. Thrown out like a bag of moldy tangerines.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:13 pm

Auggie wrote:haha active user since 2005 and flip a switch and gone. Thrown out like a bag of moldy tangerines.

The encyclopedia is more or less built; now it's a matter of routine maintenance and cashing $100M of checks a year...

RfB

Auggie · Unread post by **Auggie** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:21 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Auggie wrote:haha active user since 2005 and flip a switch and gone. Thrown out like a bag of moldy tangerines.
The encyclopedia is more or less built; now it's a matter of routine maintenance and cashing $100M of checks a year...

RfB

Maybe you're right. They don't need the help anymore.

Can someone give me the tl;dr version of the Fram story?

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:24 pm

Auggie wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
Auggie wrote:haha active user since 2005 and flip a switch and gone. Thrown out like a bag of moldy tangerines.
The encyclopedia is more or less built; now it's a matter of routine maintenance and cashing $100M of checks a year...

RfB
Maybe you're right. They don't need the help anymore.

Can someone give me the tl;dr version of the Fram story?

There isnt one yet. Fram not talking and only the global stewards know. And neither are they.

It is odd to enact a local wiki T&S ban with a *time limit*.

Auggie · Unread post by **Auggie** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:41 pm

Anroth wrote: There isnt one yet. Fram not talking and only the global stewards know. And neither are they.

It is odd to enact a local wiki T&S ban with a *time limit*.

Weird. I checked Fram's contribution history and there were some deleted entries from the incidents noticeboard.

Katie · Unread post by **Katie** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:46 pm

The deleted contributions appear to be about The Pirate Bay (T-H-L), I would be surprised if it had anything to do with the WMF ban.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:48 pm

Anroth wrote:
Auggie wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
Auggie wrote:haha active user since 2005 and flip a switch and gone. Thrown out like a bag of moldy tangerines.
The encyclopedia is more or less built; now it's a matter of routine maintenance and cashing $100M of checks a year...

RfB
Maybe you're right. They don't need the help anymore.

Can someone give me the tl;dr version of the Fram story?
There isnt one yet. Fram not talking and only the global stewards know. And neither are they.

It is odd to enact a local wiki T&S ban with a *time limit*.

My take is they recently quietly gave themselves this "right" with a view to tossing problem people from small wikis if they were still doing decent work on other wikis... And they clearly see it as a tool to remove the sometimes quite valuable Fram from En-WP long enough for them to do SOMETHING.

I suspect Flow II is coming.

It's clearly a grab of more power by San Francisco but I think a lot of people are past giving a fuck at this point. Rich bureaucracies will do what they have to do to defend their position of privilege. As the dollar levels increase, the gangsterlike tendencies of those with snouts already in the trough can be expected to increase...

RfB

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:57 pm

This shit worked so well for Aunt Flow, Visual Edsel and SuperProtectMyFeelings that I'm not surprised they gone ahead and decided to wear the hornets' nest as a party hat, yet again.

The WMF appears to be organizationally impervious to learning.

Given who how and who they hire, this is vastly unsurprising.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:59 pm

Surely imposing a ban on only one site is involvement in the operations of that site. You'd think that the WMF would avoid doing that.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:02 pm

Mumbly mouth breathers wrote:Statement from the WMF Trust & Safety Team

Dear members of the English Wikipedia community,

We have been approached by several volunteers with questions concerning the recent Office Action, the time-limited partial Foundation ban of User:Fram covering your project. As we saw similar questions also being asked in your discussions around the project, including here, we thought it is most accessible to interested community members to provide clarifications publicly here:

What made the Foundation take action at all and why at this specific time?

As described on the Metapage about Office actions, we investigate the need for an office action either upon receipt of complaints from the community, or as required by law. In this case we acted on complaints from the community.

All office actions are only taken after a thorough investigation, and extensive review by staff. This process usually takes about four weeks.
Office actions are covering individuals and not just individual user accounts. Therefore, the measure covers more than one user account in this case.

Who made the complaint to the Foundation?

The Foundation always aims to be as transparent as possible with office actions. However, as outlined in the general information section of the office actions page, we also prioritize the safety of involved parties and legal compliance. Therefore, we do not disclose who submitted community complaints.
Why did the Foundation only ban for a year?

As part of the Improving Trust and Safety processes program, less intrusive office actions were introduced. Those options include time-limited and partial (project-specific) bans to address serious concerns that are, however, temporary or project-specific in nature. For example, if a user has been problematic on one project in particular while contributing without concerns to another community wiki, this can now be addressed in a more targeted way than a full Foundation global ban.

Why did the Foundation de-sysop? Does this mean that Fram will not be an administrator when his ban ends in 2020?

The removal of administrator access is intended as enforcement of the temporary partial Foundation ban placed on Fram. It is the community’s decision what to do with Fram’s administrator access upon the expiration of the Office Action ban.

What kind of appeal is possible against this office action?

As a this time-limited Foundation ban is an outcome of a regular office action investigation, it is governed by the same rules already familiar from Foundation global bans: it does not offer an opportunity to appeal.

As the team carrying out office action investigations, Trust and Safety starts cases from the position that it is up to volunteers to decide for themselves how they spend their free time within the frame of the Terms of Use and the local community’s rules provided for in section 10 of them. The Terms of Use do not distinguish whether a user participates by creating and curating content, building tools and gadgets for peers doing so, helping out as a functionary handling admin, checkuser or oversight tools or in other forms. However, on occasion community members submit evidence strongly indicating cases where local communities consistently struggle to uphold not just their own autonomous rules but the Terms of Use, too. We will continue to consider these rare cases brought to our attention under the framework of the office actions policy. Best regards, WMFOffice (talk) 20:58, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Katie · Unread post by **Katie** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:04 pm

The WMF's Trust and Safety team are utterly incompetent, so to release a statement that doesn't explain anything is exactly what they would do.

Beeblebrox · Unread post by **Beeblebrox** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:06 pm

Yeah, their statement has a lot of words in it, but it doesn't say anything, except vague handwaving at the TOU.

And that's all we're ever going to get unless Fram decides to say something.

There may be a clue in there where that mention it takes about four weeks for them to decide to do one of these, but looking at logs, suppressed contribs, etc, I'm not seeing it.

Pudeo · Unread post by **Pudeo** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:14 pm

Who did Fram recently hammer?

GiantSnowman, but based on his comment he wasn't the one who complained to the WMF. Didn't Fram sank Drmies' ArbCom ticket with socking allegations? Who else?

Katie · Unread post by **Katie** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:16 pm

Certainly wasn't GiantSnowman, they seem to have made up, unless GiantSnowman was being very devious, which I doubt is the case. I doubt it was Drmies, he hardly strikes me as someone likely to complain to the WMF.

Ryuichi · Unread post by **Ryuichi** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:22 pm

Heavily involved in the recent Rama ArbCom case. A couple of participants there (not necessarily the named party), and at the new Draft of the article at the core of that case, seem plausible complainants.

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:26 pm

Tbh its more likely to be an opponent related to technical issues (wikidata, visual bullshit) who has been hammered on ENWP, or its going to be a)paid editor, b)copyright violator, c)a feminist issue, d)gender warrior.

el84 · Unread post by **el84** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:30 pm

On Commons, Rama complained about Fram wikistalking him about four weeks ago...

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Comm ... i_stalking

It was archived without anything being done about it, it seems.

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:35 pm

el84 wrote:On Commons, Rama complained about Fram wikistalking him about four weeks ago...

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Comm ... i_stalking

It was archived without anything being done about it, it seems.

Unlikely. Or they would have banned him on commons.

My guess is someone like Rich Farmbrough sent a complaint to T&S that Fram was picking on him.

-edit- Actually Wikipediocracy's fave drama llama just jumped to the top of my list.

Black Kite · Unread post by **Black Kite** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:32 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =896149685

Got to be a possibilty.

Capeo · Unread post by **Capeo** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:39 pm

Anroth wrote:-edit- Actually Wikipediocracy's fave drama llama just jumped to the top of my list.

Fae having some part in this would be my guess too. I’ve been checking out the WP noticeboards again recently for shits and giggles and Fram and Fae have butted heads in the misgendering fiasco and the Rama arb case recently.

Beeblebrox · Unread post by **Beeblebrox** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:52 pm

I gotta be honest, neither fo them are my favorite people, but I'd rather have 50 Frams than one Fae.

Mason · Unread post by **Mason** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 pm

I guess the only way we'll find out if the WMF banned Fram over that pointless argument with Fae is if Fram or Fae tells us.

Beeblebrox · Unread post by **Beeblebrox** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:03 pm

Mason wrote:I guess the only way we'll find out if the WMF banned Fram over that pointless argument with Fae is if Fram or Fae tells us.

Yep. And we all know about Fae's relationship with the truth, so the ball's in Fram's court.

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:27 pm

on occasion community members submit evidence strongly indicating cases where local communities consistently struggle to uphold not just their own autonomous rules but the Terms of Use, too. We will continue to consider these rare cases brought to our attention under the framework of the office actions policy.

That's the key takeaway from their verbose statement.

And if a discussion at Wikipedia talk:No personal attacks titled Harassment, mocking or otherwise disrespecting someone on the basis of gender identification and pronoun preference that was hatted a month ago with This discussion has generated a lot of heat and almost no light and there is almost no prospect of that changing. isn't the specific incident, well, it will be another incident like that.

So we finally see that they are doing something. I expect that they will pick offenders off one at a time until either the community gets the message, or the balance of power tips such that the minority of editors favoring enforcement of the civility policy becomes a majority.

Disclaimer, I haven't even read the hatted discussion yet, but maybe I will take a look now, if I can stomach it.

Capeo · Unread post by **Capeo** » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:57 pm

That collapsed exchange between Fae and Fram boggles the mind. Fram has the bad habit of fighting exhaustively on shit that isn’t worth it, but their exasperation there is completely earned. Most of that exchange is Fram agreeing with Fae on the substance, but not some particulars, and Fae reframing things that they both agree on as though there is no agreement. It’s wacky. Fram dropping the N-bomb was very ill considered though.

Does Fae really have that much pull with WMF these days though? The only interesting thing the office response said was about them stepping in when the local community failed to deal with it themselves. I’m not sure Fae complaining by themselves would be enough to make this happen. The biggest public story lately was the Phelps stuff that led to the Rama case and, by extension, the focus on Jess Wade. I could see the WMF circling the wagons around Wade but I don’t see anywhere that Fram harassed Wade.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:11 am

Ironically, Fram now makes #5 of the people who supported my ban to now also be banned and he is one of several I have been saying for a long time is problematic and needs to be dealt with. I do not have any sympathy at all for either Fram or the WMF for the backlash they are receiving. If Fram wasn't suck a prick to everyone, he might not be banned now and if the Trust and Safety section and the WMF were competent in the least, then they would have explained this decision better and made it clear to the community it was their call, THE END!.

Auggie · Unread post by **Auggie** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:46 am

No Ledge wrote:
on occasion community members submit evidence strongly indicating cases where local communities consistently struggle to uphold not just their own autonomous rules but the Terms of Use, too. We will continue to consider these rare cases brought to our attention under the framework of the office actions policy.
That's the key takeaway from their verbose statement.

And if a discussion at Wikipedia talk:No personal attacks titled Harassment, mocking or otherwise disrespecting someone on the basis of gender identification and pronoun preference that was hatted a month ago with This discussion has generated a lot of heat and almost no light and there is almost no prospect of that changing. isn't the specific incident, well, it will be another incident like that.

So we finally see that they are doing something. I expect that they will pick offenders off one at a time until either the community gets the message, or the balance of power tips such that the minority of editors favoring enforcement of the civility policy becomes a majority.

Disclaimer, I haven't even read the hatted discussion yet, but maybe I will take a look now, if I can stomach it.

Wow.

Fram is incredibly stupid.

He types out the n-word to make a point about gender pronouns.

Probably the peabrains at WMF realized they can't have administrators flinging around racial slurs to win dumb arguments.

Ansh666 · Unread post by **Ansh666** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:10 am

Auggie wrote:
No Ledge wrote:
on occasion community members submit evidence strongly indicating cases where local communities consistently struggle to uphold not just their own autonomous rules but the Terms of Use, too. We will continue to consider these rare cases brought to our attention under the framework of the office actions policy.
That's the key takeaway from their verbose statement.

And if a discussion at Wikipedia talk:No personal attacks titled Harassment, mocking or otherwise disrespecting someone on the basis of gender identification and pronoun preference that was hatted a month ago with This discussion has generated a lot of heat and almost no light and there is almost no prospect of that changing. isn't the specific incident, well, it will be another incident like that.

So we finally see that they are doing something. I expect that they will pick offenders off one at a time until either the community gets the message, or the balance of power tips such that the minority of editors favoring enforcement of the civility policy becomes a majority.

Disclaimer, I haven't even read the hatted discussion yet, but maybe I will take a look now, if I can stomach it.
Wow.

Fram is incredibly stupid.

He types out the n-word to make a point about gender pronouns.

Probably the peabrains at WMF realized they can't have administrators flinging around racial slurs to win dumb arguments.

I mean, it's not like he called someone that. He was using it to illustrate a false equivalence. Perhaps not the best idea to type it out in full, but still, it's not worthy of a 1-year ban.

Auggie · Unread post by **Auggie** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:04 am

Ansh666 wrote:
I mean, it's not like he called someone that. He was using it to illustrate a false equivalence. Perhaps not the best idea to type it out in full, but still, it's not worthy of a 1-year ban.

I can see your point, but we're talking about a societal norm here.

That the community just let it fly by without even a peep speaks volumes about their disconnect with the world.

Imagine trying to participate in an organization where the administrators are talking like that. Fram should know better.

Maybe he just needs a talking to, I don't know. But office drones don't tend to see context and nuances. All they see is one of the community leader bros fighting with a transgender, talking like a dumbass, and embarrassing the project. Check his file... hmm he's been annoying in the past. OK gone.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:36 am

Coincidentally, the Global user contributions tool is broken. You can no longer search an account's most recent contributions across all projects. It was also linked to enwiki's Special:Contributions pages, but is no longer. This problem was reported to phabricator, but phabricator is also broken right now.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:05 am

Someone hasn't been seen since June 6th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... ns/F%C3%A6

Just like Ashley to run and hide when the shit hits the fan...

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:01 am

Beeblebrox wrote:I gotta be honest, neither fo them are my favorite people, but I'd rather have 50 Frams than one Fae.

Well, I'd phrase it thus: "I'd rather have Fram than Fae by a factor of fifty."

I can't even imagine a world with fifty Frams.

tim

Ansh666 · Unread post by **Ansh666** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:05 am

Fae has now denied having anything to do with it. Well, anything direct anyways.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:13 am

Vigilant wrote:Someone hasn't been seen since June 6th.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... ns/F%C3%A6

Just like Ashley to run and hide when the shit hits the fan...

Fæ responds:

As far as I know this block has nothing to do with anything Fram wrote to me, and it would be jaw droppingly astonishing if this action had anything to do with the campaign of transphobic abuse and death threats I have been targeted with recently.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:38 am

I've left a message for Fram on his talk page on French-WP inviting him to drop by here to make a statement. I think he's Belgian and that would be the most likely place for him to pop up next, assuming he doesn't give WMF the finger and walk away.

RfB

Ryuichi · Unread post by **Ryuichi** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:23 am

Randy from Boise wrote: I can't even imagine a world with fifty Frams.

tim

I can imagine a world with fifty Faes. It is a world profoundly Alighierian.

WBG · Unread post by **WBG** » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:35 am

SilkTork writes:-

I shall be inactive on ArbCom until this matter is resolved one way or another. There is frustratingly little information at the moment ...