Image filter resolution rescinded

[HRIP7]

The image filter resolution has been rescinded. Jimbo's was the only voice opposed.

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Res ... ng_Feature

In May 2011, the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees unanimously passed a resolution regarding controversial content.[1] The resolution included a request to the Executive Director to implement a "personal image hiding feature" for the Wikimedia projects.

Following a community poll organized by the Foundation, and extensive discussion in various venues, it has become clear that this issue can be highly divisive and distracting to the Wikimedia community. We trust our community, and we respect the arguments that have been made opposing the feature as well as those in support of it. We affirm our support for better user choice and user preferences, but do not want to prescribe a specific mechanism for offering that choice. Therefore we rescind the request to develop this feature. The remainder of the May 2011 resolution remains in effect.

Reference:
↑ Resolution:Controversial content

Yes
Phoebe Ayers, Ting Chen, Bishakha Datta, Matt Halprin, Samuel Klein, Arne Klempert, Jan-Bart de Vreede, Kat Walsh, Stu West

No
Jimmy Wales

[eppur si muove]

Now that's an own goal if ever there was one.

[Mason]

Now that's an own goal if ever there was one.

Indeed. Pretty embarrassing moment. Looks like Jimbo may have a much better idea what kind of shitstorm this may cause than the other 9.

[HRIP7]

Jimbo now claims he didn't vote against rescinding the image filter at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... resolution

Sorry you got unanimously outvoted.[6] Would submitting a patch to mw:Extension:Bad Image List adding a user preference to add one or more URLs with arbitrary media files to block instead of using only the centralized list require the approval of the community or just the developers? Line 17 here performs image censorship in the centralized, top-down way that the community and board rejected, so a patch to add a distributed filter list should be in line with community decisions, right? 71.212.249.178 (talk) 03:29, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

That page is wrong. I voted yes. I've written to the board to try to figure out how to get that updated quickly.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 12:19, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

You said only a few weeks ago on Twitter that you would write it yourself and turn it on tomorrow if you could. What made you change your mind? JN466 12:32, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

[lilburne]

Maybe he voted both ways.

[HRIP7]

Maybe he voted both ways.

Must have done. It was an in-person meeting, so perhaps Bishakha remembered only what he said out of one side of his mouth.

At any rate, here is a webcite of the resolution, saying it passed 9–1 in an in-person meeting, with Jimbo the sole voice dissenting.

http://www.webcitation.org/69AyEvzIS

[HRIP7]

And here are webcites of Jimbo's tweets to Larry six weeks ago:

http://www.webcitation.org/69AywEPy2

Larry Sanger ‏@lsanger
I think it's time for the media to ask @jimmy_wales if he supports a filter for Wikipedia's vast porn offerings http://larrysanger.org/2012/05/what-s …
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Jimmy Wales
‏@jimmy_wales

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@lsanger I strongly support it. The board has directed that it be built. http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolutio …
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1:29 AM - 30 May 12 via web · Embed this Tweet

http://www.webcitation.org/69AyzpjMm

Larry Sanger ‏@lsanger
Re a porn filter for Wikipedia, grand that you @jimmy_wales "strongly support it." Question is, what are you going to do about it now?

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Jimmy Wales
‏@jimmy_wales

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@lsanger if I could write it myself and turn it on tomorrow I would.
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7:17 AM - 30 May 12 via Twitter for Android · Embed this Tweet

[lilburne]

I strongly support the creation of an industry-standard, unremarkable, low-community-impact (possibly even staff-managed if necessary) setting so that end users can easily toggle on and off NSFW images. I continue to push this matter with the board and would appreciate community help in making sure that it is implemented as soon as possible.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] ([[User talk:Jimbo Wales#top|talk]]) 09:14, 1 July 2012 (UTC
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =500157373

[lsanger]

Working on a new blog post.

[Vigilant]

You should title your blog post, "Why Jimmy can't tell the truth"

[lsanger]

Here it is: http://larrysanger.org/2012/07/wikimedi ... rn-filter/

I don't explain therein why Jimmy can't tell the truth, although I do speculate that he wants to be free to speak out of both sides of his mouth, with one message to his inner circle and Wikipeeps, and another to the saner public.

[Cedric]

What I would like to know is why the Board felt compelled to kill the initiative with a rescinding resolution, instead of just letting it die due to lack of further attention or follow up, as per their usual practice.

[lsanger]

Two possibilities. One is that Jimbo pressed the issue, as he assured us he would, and the Board pushed back. The other is that the Board wanted to send a clear (albeit ridiculous) message to certain people that they will not be told what to do. And on that score, oh, message received loud and clear. Now let's see what manner of plan Jimbo manages to produce, and whether it will stay only in the talk stage.

[HRIP7]

Two possibilities. One is that Jimbo pressed the issue, as he assured us he would, and the Board pushed back. The other is that the Board wanted to send a clear (albeit ridiculous) message to certain people that they will not be told what to do. And on that score, oh, message received loud and clear. Now let's see what manner of plan Jimbo manages to produce, and whether it will stay only in the talk stage.

If history is anything to go by, then of course it will only stay in the talk stage. Judging by the history to date, one could be forgiven for thinking that this is Jimbo's tried and tested method. It looks something like this:

1. Announce an idea that is sensible and seems like it could actually work, so that critics can see what a great guy Jimbo is – a visionary leader ready to take the reins of responsibility! – and will lay off him.

2. Then, s-l-o-w-l-y, let the idea die, taking care to ensure that other people than him will be seen as the reason why it did die. Struggle enough to be seen to be fighting for the idea, and feebly enough to not actually win. The community just didn't support it, you see, and you can't go against the community.

3. In the end, act contrite, as though there had been something wrong with the idea and he had only now realised the error of his ways, so that everyone can see what a moral, thoughtful and humble guy he is – prepared to drop the selfish notion that he knows best, ready to listen to the community.

4. Lather, rinse, repeat as many times as necessary.

5. Once ten years have gone by, no one will be left to ask for those improvements.

The benefitz and the core of the strategy: there is no need to do anything. It will all blow over, and business can continue as usual throughout. All that's needed is a bit of window-dressing, intended to soothe the complaints with the promise of good things to come, but designed to fail from the start.

If that theory is correct, then in six months' time, Wikipedia will be no nearer an image filter (although a few thousand words more will have been spent waffling about one). Anyone willing to bet a tenner against it?

[EricBarbour]

Anyone willing to bet a tenner against it?

You need a more gullible readership. Try AN/I.

[HRIP7]

The resolution has now been updated, to show a vote of 10–0, and the FAQ has been posted on the Resolution's talk page.

FAQ

Q - What does it mean to "affirm our support for user choice"?
A: It is important for readers to be able to customize their experience on the projects, and to make their browsing and searching useful and comfortable.
Q - If there is a simple feature like this that is designed by community members and supported by the vast majority of people in a community (say, in a long-running RfC), would it be implemented?
A: For features that are not controversial and supported by a vast majority of community members: yes. Gathering feedback on a feature request, and gauging community interest in it, is a bottleneck for implementation.
Q - What does this mean for suggestions proposed so far, by community members and others, to provide users with a choice in what images they see?
A: A variety of useful suggestions have been proposed to help customize image display; from solutions for individual pages where the curation and selection of images is controversial (e.g., Muhammad), to options for customizing search results, to options for all images. Those that gain widespread support may be developed and implemented; however there is no specific feature that has been singled out for development.
Q - Could different communities choose to implement different solutions to this set of feature requests?
A: Yes. Currently most communities implement their own solutions and editorial guidelines for issues that divide readers. Any tools or features developed could be implemented by communities that want them.

Vote change record

Dear all,
I am happy to announce that the Board of Trustees has now unanimously approved this resolution [1] rescinding our previous direction to the Executive Director to develop a personal image hiding feature.
At our in-person board meeting of 11 July 2012, the vote on this was provisionally recorded at 9-1, with Jimmy voting against. Jimmy has since changed his vote to a yes, on reviewing an FAQ accompanying this resolution which notes that the board is willing to approve a plan broadly backed by the community.
Thus the vote on this has now been changed to 10-0.
The FAQ accompanying the board resolution is on this talk page.
The resolution remains at: [1] http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Res ... ng_Feature

Announcement.

[HRIP7]

I never noticed at the time ... Jimbo deleted a post of Larry's off his talk page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =502481939

[thekohser]

I never noticed at the time ... Jimbo deleted a post of Larry's off his talk page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =502481939

Yes, somebody did mention that in another thread or via e-mail to me, I don't recall.

[lsanger]

And he hatted another reply of mine, with the classic Jimboism, "Closing discussion that appears to be going off track." Indeed, he's deleted many--probably, most--of the comments I've put on that page in the last several years. Although I think he is ridiculous for doing so, I don't really mind, because I'm mainly just talking to him.

Notice the irrelevant, gratuitous "NewtonGeek" comment as well, which made me suspect that person is a troll after all.

[Anroth]

Notice the irrelevant, gratuitous "NewtonGeek" comment as well, which made me suspect that person is a troll after all.

I have suspected he (and his alter-ego wife, I do not consider them different people for various reasons) was/is an agent provocateur since they appeared. The back-and-forth of stated positions, the clear egging on of other people. The weird (positive/negative) obsession with Dennis Brown.... And above all, long years of experience dealing with faceless people online - going back to BBS & MU* days. Perhaps he needs his own thread now.

[Vigilant]

Notice the irrelevant, gratuitous "NewtonGeek" comment as well, which made me suspect that person is a troll after all.

I have suspected he (and his alter-ego wife, I do not consider them different people for various reasons) was/is an agent provocateur since they appeared. The back-and-forth of stated positions, the clear egging on of other people. The weird (positive/negative) obsession with Dennis Brown.... And above all, long years of experience dealing with faceless people online - going back to BBS & MU* days. Perhaps he needs his own thread now.

I'd concur.
Any idea as to who the operator is?

[Anroth]

Fae?

I jest, in truth no idea. But quite a few statements very early on set off my warning bells. Certain patterns of behavior, the slipping of the carefully articulated mask when under pressure, the desperate to appear more intelligent and older/experienced than they are, that sort of thing. IMO Newtongeek is no more their true persona than their other online masks.

[Vigilant]

I particularly like how he takes positions on both sides of the argument in Ashley van HaeftEn's case.

[Zoloft]

I particularly like how he takes positions on both sides of the argument in Ashley van HaeftEn's case.

He's a helpful, helpful, helpful, "May I have you talk to the police about child endangerment?", helpful guy.

[rhindle]

I particularly like how he takes positions on both sides of the argument in Ashley van HaeftEn's case.

I think this person(s) could be doing some sort of study on wikipedia and poking at different characters to see what happens and is going to write a paper on it. It wouldn't surprise me.

[dogbiscuit]

I particularly like how he takes positions on both sides of the argument in Ashley van HaeftEn's case.

I think this person(s) could be doing some sort of study on wikipedia and poking at different characters to see what happens and is going to write a paper on it. It wouldn't surprise me.

Ah, another Moulton.

[HRIP7]

I never noticed at the time ... Jimbo deleted a post of Larry's off his talk page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =502481939

Yes, somebody did mention that in another thread or via e-mail to me, I don't recall.

It was mentioned in a comment on Larry's blog.

[SB_Johnny]

I particularly like how he takes positions on both sides of the argument in Ashley van HaeftEn's case.

I think this person(s) could be doing some sort of study on wikipedia and poking at different characters to see what happens and is going to write a paper on it. It wouldn't surprise me.

Ah, another Moulton.

There can be only one.

[HRIP7]

Judging the progress to date of Jimbo's filter initative is a somewhat bewildering task. On the one hand, the talk page is now close to 100 kilobytes.

On the other hand, Jimbo has not posted to the page in a little over three days. The latest talk page section header reads "Expanding the Commons porn collection with effective indexing" (by Wnt).

[dogbiscuit]

Judging the progress to date of Jimbo's filter initative is a somewhat bewildering task. On the one hand, the talk page is now close to 100 kilobytes.

On the other hand, Jimbo has not posted to the page in a little over three days. The latest talk page section header reads "Expanding the Commons porn collection with effective indexing" (by Wnt).

Perhaps a more sensible solution is a Bayesian filter that allows each user to select what they want to see. Unsigned in users could have a seeded version. With sufficient categorisation there need be no need for any pre-determined "censorship" as every user gets t say what they don't want to see.

[HRIP7]

Judging the progress to date of Jimbo's filter initative is a somewhat bewildering task. On the one hand, the talk page is now close to 100 kilobytes.

On the other hand, Jimbo has not posted to the page in a little over three days. The latest talk page section header reads "Expanding the Commons porn collection with effective indexing" (by Wnt).

Perhaps a more sensible solution is a Bayesian filter that allows each user to select what they want to see. Unsigned in users could have a seeded version. With sufficient categorisation there need be no need for any pre-determined "censorship" as every user gets t say what they don't want to see.

That sounds a bit like what WereSpielChequers proposed a while back.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Wer ... ers/filter

Is this the sort of thing you meant?

[EricBarbour]

Yes, it's been proposed by others too. Over and over.

It won't happen. The Wikipedia "community" is aging in place, at a supernatural speed. They are like crazy old men now,
set in their ways and opposed to any kind of change, beneficial or not. They will run it into the ground.

[dogbiscuit]

Judging the progress to date of Jimbo's filter initative is a somewhat bewildering task. On the one hand, the talk page is now close to 100 kilobytes.

On the other hand, Jimbo has not posted to the page in a little over three days. The latest talk page section header reads "Expanding the Commons porn collection with effective indexing" (by Wnt).

Perhaps a more sensible solution is a Bayesian filter that allows each user to select what they want to see. Unsigned in users could have a seeded version. With sufficient categorisation there need be no need for any pre-determined "censorship" as every user gets t say what they don't want to see.

That sounds a bit like what WereSpielChequers proposed a while back.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Wer ... ers/filter

Is this the sort of thing you meant?

Well, myself I was thinking something a bit more straight forward - it might be the same thing but that was a bit of a complicated system. I'm a simple person at heart, and my view is that every email system these days has a fairly straight forward to operate spam filter, so the technology is straight forward and available as long as the filter is given something to work with - like appropriately named files - having to set filters for napkins wouldn't really be going in the right direction. What I think is difficult is seeding a sensible starting position, but I think that is worked around by getting someone to simply spend a morning viewing Wikipedia pictures in a handful of roles.

The only issue is how you seed a filter for the unsigned in user and how you select it, but a cookie could be readily used for a PC at home or work to remember a setting.

I guess the point is that the technology already exists (open source too) to run a filter and that it can be described in ways that most people will understand - people know about junk mail filters - and it could be implemented without depending on a massive volunteer effort.

[thekohser]

It's been a long time since I've heard Jimmy Wales speak so clearly and correctly about a subject:
Too bad he's rather powerless now against the Board and the "community".

[lilburne]

Bookmarked for later - around November I think.

[piku]

It's been a long time since I've heard Jimmy Wales speak so clearly and correctly about a subject:

Too bad he's rather powerless now against the Board and the "community".

"It is not that difficult to do". That is correct, it may already be possible, with some javascript "gadget" in one's settings.

But that only works for logged-in users. It would not enable censorship in for example the school computer room or by parents.

[Kevin]

It's been a long time since I've heard Jimmy Wales speak so clearly and correctly about a subject:

Too bad he's rather powerless now against the Board and the "community".

"It is not that difficult to do". That is correct, it may already be possible, with some javascript "gadget" in one's settings.

But that only works for logged-in users. It would not enable censorship in for example the school computer room or by parents.

Sure, but that is a technical limitation, easily overcome with existing technology. Especially with the size of war chest the WMF has.

The real problem is a social one.

[HRIP7]

Judging the progress to date of Jimbo's filter initative is a somewhat bewildering task. On the one hand, the talk page is now close to 100 kilobytes.

On the other hand, Jimbo has not posted to the page in a little over three days. The latest talk page section header reads "Expanding the Commons porn collection with effective indexing" (by Wnt).

It's worth noting that Jimbo has not edited the page for a full month now. Remember, he initiated it when he was challenged by Larry Sanger about his vote to rescind the image filter resolution, posting the following on his talk page:

I strongly support the creation of a personal image filter. I worked very hard to reach a compromise resolution which does not close off the possibility of real progress on this. SJ and I will be releasing an FAQ about this soon (tomorrow, I think, but time zone differences may mean a delay of a day or so). In my view, stated vigorously at the board meeting, an early version of the resolution would have been interpreted incorrectly as the board rejecting the image filter completely.
What I think we can do is convene a small group of people (design by massive wiki discussion tends to suck) to design a very lightweight solution, taking into account and resolving genuine and thoughtful objections, and hold a project-wide vote to get a clear instruction for the Foundation. I am confident that this can take place relatively quickly. [...]

I'm starting a page where I hope to see a constructive discussion of the desired characteristics of a personal image filter, with a view towards getting a very high degree of community support for the concept. User:Jimbo Wales/Personal Image Filter with discussions at User_talk:Jimbo Wales/Personal Image Filter. I'll kick the main page off in the next few minutes with some initial thoughts.

You see, that was designed to take the wind out of everybody's sails on the day he said it. It worked. But then there was no follow-up. He posted to the page for two days, and that was it. Finished, problem solved.

Management by doing nothing at its finest.

[powercorrupts]

It's been a long time since I've heard Jimmy Wales speak so clearly and correctly about a subject:

youtube

Too bad he's rather powerless now against the Board and the "community".

Except the part where he claims that Wikipedia isn't the place to go for pornography (and gets a cheap laugh). Sexuality was always central to Wikipedia, and he knows full well that "porn" is a flexible term. I think he's really reminding people what else is out there, easily (if not freely) available and uncensored.

The 'java click' for various image types is a natural and typically long-overdue evolutionary stage, and the most important thing about it is that the defualt really has to be "off" to make any sense. That changes Wikipedia in a number of different ways.

[HRIP7]

Rd232 started a KISS image filter RfC last week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... age_filter

About a month ago Jimbo created User:Jimbo Wales/Personal Image Filter as a followup to the perennial image filter issue. Discussion on that has petered out (no comments in last 4 weeks), and we don't seem any nearer to a solution that meets the criteria listed at User:Jimbo Wales/Personal Image Filter.

NB I also asked Jimbo recently at User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_113#KISS_image_filter, having raised it at m:Controversial_content/Brainstorming#KISS; Jimbo didn't reply.

At the moment it looks like it's attracting a measure of support.

[EricBarbour]

Rd232 started a KISS image filter RfC last week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... age_filter

PHPbb is screwy. Sometimes a URL like that doesn't work properly if just pasted into the text.

This is the working link

[HRIP7]

Rd232 started a KISS image filter RfC last week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... age_filter

PHPbb is screwy. Sometimes a URL like that doesn't work properly if just pasted into the text.

This is the working link

Thanks, Eric.