Article Rescue Squadron

[L00sr]

A reliable group to keep a lot of terrible articles.

• List of scientists who disagree with the scientific consensus on global warming - Screams NOT
  
  List of Star Wars spacecraft - fancruft
  
  Richard Haine - unremarkable person
  
  Epistemology of Wikipedia - naval gazing
  
  U.S. intervention in Venezuela - POVFORK

Their masterpiece:

No-go area (2nd_nomination)

They managed to get this TRASH around just by flooding it with keep votes. Pathetic.

[Eric Corbett]

One of Wikipedia's more pathetically childish features is the use of terms like "squadron", "patrol", "guild" ... to identify groups of equally pathetic editors.

[gentlegnome]

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_crimes_involving_a_silicone_mask (T-H-L)
Dreadful...

[Beeblebrox]

The AFD canvassing squadron. I tried at one point to join up with them, and encouraged others who wouldn't normally do so, with the idea that maybe we could change the culture of the group from the inside.

I can't believe I was ever that optimistic.

Some of the folks there are genuinely ok people who are fairly low-key and will actually do real work to save terrible articles on real topics. They are unfortunately the minority. The main cast of more vocal members has changed over the years but the approach clearly has not: they are more like a gang with a battlefield mentality, who see their team as the only thing stopping the horrible practice of deleting crappy articles. Any tactic is acceptable in order to accomplish their goals, they care more about winning than whether or not WP has a bunch of shitty articles.

Their great heroes, form their alleged "glory days" were great people like
-Okip (T-C-L) AKA Ikip AKA Inclusionist AKA Travb, finally community blocked in 2012 for massive socking, after dozens of blocks for other reasons over numerous account names, mostly for battlefield behavior and canvassing. Last post to ARS talk page encouraged the members to relentlessly attack anyone who said they had a battlefield mentality.
-A Nobody (T-C-L) AKA Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles banned for socking and votestacking by the community, and also banned by arbcom for faking a retirement to dodge an impending case. Also had at least a dozen previous blocks across multiple usernames.

Whenever there's a discussion anywhere about the horrors of deletionism, Feyd Huxtable (T-C-L) will go on a maudlin rant about how these two, in particular A Nobody, were unfairly railroaded off the project for no apparent reason other than massive abuse that was done for a good cause. He acts as though we lost the greatest editor WP had ever known and we can never forget the tragedy, when the vast majority of the community felt relief that this obnoxious, lying pest was finally cast out.

Add this group to the long list of originally well-intentioned ideas that didn't work out. The idea is solid, a group that works to make sure that bad articles on eligible topics become at least adequate and are saved from deletion. In practice, a voting block that will resort to refbombing and making ridiculous illogical arguments and sometimes will resort to actual dirty tricks to get their way.

[Randy from Boise]

A reliable group to keep a lot of terrible articles.

Richard Haine - unremarkable person

They managed to get this TRASH around just by flooding it with keep votes. Pathetic.

Just glancing at that one, it's Nomination Withdrawn, so whatever your point about ARS was, it doesn't really apply. "Unremarkable" is the sort of normative opinion that deletion policy is meant to eliminate. Whether the piece passes muster to pass GNG is a close call about which honest people may differ, it seems to me.

For this one at least, you are baying at the wrong moon.

Welcome to WPO, by the way.

tim

[Tarc]

Other than Milowent, the ARSeholes were a bunch of whiny dickmittens.

Some ragtag leftovers rallied again to save Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Article Rescue Squadron – Rescue list (T-H-L) from deletion, but ARS as an active entity, thankfully, appears to be quite dead.

Dream Focus (T-C-L) is still soldiering on, voting to keep everything in sight.

Cunard (T-C-L) is still ref-bombing AFDs and DRVs, but it appears that most (finally) see through his bullshit.

[The Garbage Scow]

Their great heroes, form their alleged "glory days" were great people like
-Okip (T-C-L) AKA Ikip AKA Inclusionist AKA Travb, finally community blocked in 2012 for massive socking, after dozens of blocks for other reasons over numerous account names, mostly for battlefield behavior and canvassing. Last post to ARS talk page encouraged the members to relentlessly attack anyone who said they had a battlefield mentality.
-A Nobody (T-C-L) AKA Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles banned for socking and votestacking by the community, and also banned by arbcom for faking a retirement to dodge an impending case. Also had at least a dozen previous blocks across multiple usernames.

Both of these guys have to have been back for ages with socks. Especially Okip. That guy was relentless.

[Eric Corbett]

Very likely. But comments like that make me wonder whether WO shouldn't develop its own vocabulary instead of using the Humpty Dumpty Wikipedia one. How about substituting "MISD" (Must Include Stupid Drivel) for "NPOV", for instance?

[Eric Corbett]

Cunard (T-C-L) is still ref-bombing AFDs and DRVs, but it appears that most (finally) see through his bullshit.

Given that Trump is President of the United States, the ability to see through bullshit appears to be rather uncommon.

[Poetlister]

sometimes will resort to actual dirty tricks to get their way.

Unfortunately, that sort of thing is by no means unheard of elsewhere on Wikipedia. Indeed, it is possible that actual dirty tricks have been used to get articles deleted. It's all inevitable on Wikipedia.

[DexterPointy]

The AFD canvassing squadron. ...
... , and also banned by arbcom for faking a retirement to dodge an impending case. Also had at least a dozen previous blocks across multiple usernames.

I think you forgot mentioning Northamerica1000 (T-C-L), who also happen to be one of the two central people in the current "Portals" Arb. Case.

Northamerica1000 userpage states: "Northamerica1000 is presently taking a semi-break from Wikipedia."
He's been extremely active and on semi-break for a very looong time, - and it's not an oversight: He was recently diligent in both adding and removing a vacation notice to his userpage.

Northamerica1000 used to be a full member of ARS (noticed at e.g. his 2'nd RfA), but Northamerica1000 has since been a hidden member of the ARS for a long time.
Something I figured out during the 1'st AfD for "List of breakfast drinks" (a 2'nd AfD also exists). - The interesting thing is that the AfD got littered with ARS people, but the AfD was never listed at ARS. And since the "article" is the baby of Northamerica1000, then the only reasonable conclusion is that Northamerica1000 did off-wiki ARS canvasing.

[Ryuichi]

Something I figured out during the 1'st AfD for "List of breakfast drinks" (a 2'nd AfD also exists).

How does that not include cream sherry?!

[L00sr]

Welcome to WPO, by the way.

thx. It's whatever. Notability guides are whatever the 'pedians & cucks dictate they are.

[Randy from Boise]

Ya lost me there, buckwheat...

t

[greyed.out.fields]

Something I figured out during the 1'st AfD for "List of breakfast drinks" (a 2'nd AfD also exists).

How does that not include cream sherry?!

We're less sophisticated here.

(You can find the "VB long neck for breakfast" YouTube video for yourselves, yah bastards)

[Ryuichi]

We're less sophisticated here.

Classy!

Tomato juice and low malt beer in a can. Only needs raw egg to make a complete breakfast.

[AngelOne]

Resurrecting this old thread because someone has brought the ARS to ANI by Dronebogus (T-C-L). The ANI thread has already been closed and reopened once.

It would be great if it was closed with topic bans from AfD for the four ARSmen - Andrew Davidson (T-C-L), Dream Focus (T-C-L), 7&6=thirteen (T-C-L), Lightburst (T-C-L) - or with a suggestion to take ARS to a village pump RfC to disband/limit them. I don't hold out that much hope of anything useful happening.

[Vigilant]

It would be great if it was closed with topic bans from AfD for the four ARSmen - Andrew Davidson (T-C-L), Dream Focus (T-C-L), 7&6=thirteen (T-C-L), Lightburst (T-C-L) - or with a suggestion to take ARS to a village pump RfC to disband/limit them.

Tell them they can have their ARS on wikinews.

[Poetlister]

The conflict between deletionists and inclusionists is a great source of popcorn. Of course, each article needs to be considered on its own merits; it can't be right to delete every article (unless you're a "Wikipedia must die" advocate, as some people here are) or to refuse to delete anything. Since "Wikipedia is not paper", it is not unreasonable to err on the side of retaining borderline articles, as indeed is the practice ("No consensus" = "Keep for now"). On the other hand, extreme ARS members infuriate others and may actually be counter-productive by encouraging others to vote for deletion.

[Hemiauchenia]

Andrew Davison in particular is needlessly rude is his AfD comments, often attacking the nominator as "not having done WP:BEFORE (T-H-L)" , when Andrew has not actually checked his sources, which often are irrelevant.

[ArmasRebane]

Yeah, while Dream Focus or 7&6 might never have met an article they didn't like, they are actually good about finding sources and participating meaningfully in AfDs.

Andrew Davidson mostly just exists to spam keep votes and throw insults or insinuations at others.

I was curious, and in his past 500 AfDs he's actually got a 1% delete vote rate, which is higher than I expected. Amusingly the only one I could find where he voted delete and the article *didn't* was Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Climate emergency declarations in the United Kingdom

[Beeblebrox]

The conflict between deletionists and inclusionistsreasonable people who don't think god kills a puppy when an article is deleted is a great source of popcorn. .

Fixed that for you

[Ritchie333]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Armament of the Iowa-class battleship (T-H-L) has turned into a train-wreck.

[Poetlister]

The conflict between deletionists and inclusionistsreasonable people who don't think god kills a puppy when an article is deleted is a great source of popcorn. .

Fixed that for you

Don't tell me that reasonable people never argue with inclusionists!

[Hemiauchenia]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Armament of the Iowa-class battleship (T-H-L) has turned into a train-wreck.

There has also been a big argument over Big John (dinosaur) (T-H-L), see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Big John (dinosaur) (T-H-L).

[Poetlister]

That's an interesting one. On a strict literal reading of Wikipedia policy, it surely passes WP:GNG because there was no shortage of press coverage. On the other hand, I think that most people who are reasonable would say that it's not particularly notable and has no long-term notability.

[Hemiauchenia]

Arguably dinosaur fossils are currently in a speculative bubble that has been generated by the sale of the Tyrannosaurus specimen Stan for around $30 million in October last year, which explains the record breaking price. I eventually expect prices to go back down, as it's only Tyrannosaurus skeletons that really command top dollar.

[Vigilant]

Looks like a great place to launder money now that the art scene is getting more scrutiny.

[Hemiauchenia]

Maybe for smaller fossils, but in my opinion large mounted dinosaur skeletons are really not good assets to speculate in compared to art, they've very illiquid as they are large, heavy and difficult to store and transport.

[Midsize Jake]

Maybe for smaller fossils, but in my opinion large mounted dinosaur skeletons are really not good assets to speculate in compared to art, they've very illiquid as they are large, heavy and difficult to store and transport.

Not only that, if you get any of that radioactive green goo on them, they might come to life and go on a rampage throughout the city. If you don't have comprehensive (and super-expensive) liability insurance, that can cancel out your profit margins or even kill the whole investment.

Then again, if they do get reanimated, that can help with the transport costs because they become self-ambulatory. So, maybe it all evens out in the end.

Getting back to the topic though, I've admittedly detected what appears to be an increase in the number of Wikipedians who take the whole "inclusionists vs. deletionists" BS rather more seriously than most of them have in the past. Is that just me, or are others seeing this too?

As many of the regulars here will probably recall, I've always referred to this particular (non-)conflict as a "red herring" — but that doesn't mean it will always be a red herring, since it's really just a matter of getting enough people invested in the thing to reach a "critical mass." Obviously that in itself wouldn't make it magically stop being BS, but it could probably make it stop being a "red herring" at least.

[Poetlister]

Arguably dinosaur fossils are currently in a speculative bubble that has been generated by the sale of the Tyrannosaurus specimen Stan for around $30 million in October last year, which explains the record breaking price. I eventually expect prices to go back down, as it's only Tyrannosaurus skeletons that really command top dollar.

All the less reason to make a fuss about this case. The "once notable, always notable" argument can be taken too far when something is just temporary froth.

[The Garbage Scow]

It sounds like they're doing a bang up job of carrying on the legacy of ARS deity Okip (T-C-L).

[Ming]

Lightburst decided to respond to a whole series of discussions on cemeteries in Oregon with "Keep WP:GEOPURP (T-H-L) "For the purpose of this guideline, a geographical feature is any reasonably permanent or historic feature of the Earth, whether natural or artificial." It had to be pointed out that this says nothing about notability.

[Poetlister]

GEOPURP is part of Wikipedia:Notability (geographic features) (T-H-L). There is certainly nothing in there that suggests that a cemetery has any presumption to be automatically notable. presumably, it has to satisfy WP:GNG (T-H-L). Obviously, many cemeteries do, but probably only a small minority.

[Ming]

Resurrecting this old thread because someone has brought the ARS to ANI by Dronebogus (T-C-L). The ANI thread has already been closed and reopened once.

It would be great if it was closed with topic bans from AfD for the four ARSmen - Andrew Davidson (T-C-L), Dream Focus (T-C-L), 7&6=thirteen (T-C-L), Lightburst (T-C-L) - or with a suggestion to take ARS to a village pump RfC to disband/limit them. I don't hold out that much hope of anything useful happening.

Well, you may get your wish: there are proposals to topic-ban three of the four going on in the discussion, which when Ming just checked took up at least 50% of the text in AN/I.

[Beeblebrox]

Holy fuck that discussion is BLOATED.

Seems like an obvious case for ArbCom, this shit has gone on way, way too long. I'd obviously have to recuse as I've been a vocal opponent of their bullshit for some time. I added a really great counter proposal link

[Poetlister]

There's also a spin-off discussion. This could spread in all directions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ular_AN%3F

[Hemiauchenia]

Seems very likely Andrew Davidson's topic ban proposal will pass, Lightburst's and 13's on the other hand look like they are trending towards no consensus.

[Smiley]

I now feel I understand the social dynamics that enabled the Athenians to vote to permaban Socrates. The Colonel is a truly unique scholar and Wikipedia will never again see his like. I know for a fact that several other worthy causes & projects in and around London are appreciative of the Colonel's time, so on the bright side, unlike with Plato's teacher, there will be several winners if your sort of rhetoric carries the day here. FeydHuxtable, 1 November 2021

[Ritchie333]

I confess to being completely confused about what FeydHuxtable is talking about.

[Hemiauchenia]

I now feel I understand the social dynamics that enabled the Athenians to vote to permaban Socrates. The Colonel is a truly unique scholar and Wikipedia will never again see his like. I know for a fact that several other worthy causes & projects in and around London are appreciative of the Colonel's time, so on the bright side, unlike with Plato's teacher, there will be several winners if your sort of rhetoric carries the day here. FeydHuxtable, 1 November 2021

This deserves to go into some hall of fame for cringeworthy Wikipedia quotes. Jesus Christ.

[Ming]

Holy fuck that discussion is BLOATED.

Seems like an obvious case for ArbCom, this shit has gone on way, way too long. I'd obviously have to recuse as I've been a vocal opponent of their bullshit for some time. I added a really great counter proposal link

...the irony being the various mass deletion cleanup projects that have been required over the years.

[Ming]

I now feel I understand the social dynamics that enabled the Athenians to vote to permaban Socrates. The Colonel is a truly unique scholar and Wikipedia will never again see his like. I know for a fact that several other worthy causes & projects in and around London are appreciative of the Colonel's time, so on the bright side, unlike with Plato's teacher, there will be several winners if your sort of rhetoric carries the day here. FeydHuxtable, 1 November 2021

If he does good work elsewhere, than tant mieux that he doesn't waste everyone's time at AfD.

[Smiley]

FeydHuxtable, 1 November 2021

This deserves to go into some hall of fame for cringeworthy Wikipedia quotes.

Right next to this one

Flyer has been recently and repeatedly hailed as one of our very best editors who easily falls into the top three leading editors when it comes to women. These are bold claims, yet seem accurate. To review Flyer's oeuvre is to be awe struck by a level of courage, generosity and equity comparable to the likes of Aeschylus, Cervantes or Racine.

FeydHuxtable, 17 December 2020

made just after she faked her own death to avoid an iban with her own sock.

[Smiley]

I confess to being completely confused about what FeydHuxtable is talking about.

Socrates was an ancient Greek philosopher who trolled the Athenians so hard they forced him to kill himself.

[Vigilant]

I confess to being completely confused about what FeydHuxtable is talking about.

Socrates was an ancient Greek philosopher who trolled the Athenians so hard they forced him to kill himself.

[Anroth]

Only on WP would the Socratic Method be described as 'trolling'.

(As an aside, he shows up in the videogame Assassin's Creed: Odyssey where he subjects the player to this repeatedly.)

Topic bans are a blunt instrument in this case. All thats needed is a line in the AFD closing guidelines which states !votes by members of ARS can be disregarded as canvassed. Job done. ARS will die on-wiki and move onto discord where *so very much canvassing* takes place it will be lost amongst the rest.

[Poetlister]

Only on WP would the Socratic Method be described as 'trolling'.

You just have to check the WP article Socratic Method (T-H-L):

Scholars such as Peter Boghossian suggest that although the method improves creative and critical thinking, there is a flip side to the method. He states that the teachers who use this method wait for the students to make mistakes, thus creating a kind of negative feelings in the class, exposing the student to possible ridicule and humiliation.[23]

[el84]

Things have happened, and Andrew Davidson has been banned from deletion-related discussions per the usual caveats.

[Beeblebrox]

I confess to being completely confused about what FeydHuxtable is talking about.

This is the same guy who regularly laments the loss of ikip/okip/travb and LeGrandPumpkinwhatever/Anobody, as if the loss of these two serial liars and sockpupeteers was a tragic blow to the project. Don't bother trying to understand his mentality.