Nihonjoe Has Been Naughty

[Zoloft]

Nihonjoe Has Been Naughty

By Eddy Landwehr

In which Nihonjoe (T-C-L), admin and bureaucrat on the English Wikipedia, is examined under a strong light.

[Vigilant]

The accompanying picture is excellent.

[C&B]

Great post. I think that is what is called strategically, taking the Landwehr to the enemy

[rnu]

Great post. I think that is what is called strategically, taking the Landwehr to the enemy

Dump him in the canal?

[Ron Lybonly]

Troubling.

Nihonjoe has always seemed like a diligent, boring admin and bureaucrat.

“Boring” is high praise in my wiki vocabulary.

So far, I see no reaction on Wikipedia.

[utbc]

So far, I see no reaction on Wikipedia.

Report involves OUTing. Anything, if it is happening, will be happening at arbcom.

[Kraken]

In the interests of greasing the wheels of justice.....what's the most serious allegation here (what, when, where), and what was the state of the applicable policies at the time?

[Giraffe Stapler]

In the interests of greasing the wheels of justice.....what's the most serious allegation here (what, when, where), and what was the state of the applicable policies at the time?

He really likes anime.

[Randy from Boise]

So far, I see no reaction on Wikipedia.

Report involves OUTing. Anything, if it is happening, will be happening at arbcom.

It's pretty impossible to avoid bringing up an issue like this without outing; but outing is such a severe felony in Wikiland, particularly after the adoption of WMF's ill-advised Code of Conduct, that even mentioning this piece, let alone linking to it, would probably be regarded as far over the line.

So don't expect a lot of chatter on-wiki.

t

[Kraken]

21:35, 13 February 2024‎ 65.74.184.218 talk‎  27,943 bytes +260‎  (edit summary removed)

[Randy from Boise]

21:35, 13 February 2024‎ 65.74.184.218 talk‎  27,943 bytes +260‎  (edit summary removed)

Georgia?

t

[Vigilant]

21:35, 13 February 2024‎ 65.74.184.218 talk‎  27,943 bytes +260‎  (edit summary removed)

Georgia?

t

Former client.

[bagofworms]

All Utahn editors are suspect.

[Zoloft]

All Utahn editors are suspect.

I feel Mitt Romney would make a good Wikipedia editor if briefed first.

[The Garbage Scow]

21:35, 13 February 2024‎ 65.74.184.218 talk‎  27,943 bytes +260‎  (edit summary removed)

Georgia?

t

QTS provides co-location services.

[Giraffe Stapler]

All Utahn editors are suspect.

I wouldn't say all Utahn editors are suspect, but there seem to be a problem with the paid editing being done out of Brigham Young University and the associates of Rachel Helps (BYU) (T-C-L), the BYU Wikipedian-in-residence:
Let's talk about LDS editors

Nihonjoe isn't part of that group, although their interests do seem to overlap occasionally.

[TheWordsmith]

Most of the allegations are very old, 2005-2013. For the 2005 page creation, we didn't even have a COI policy, just a failed proposal. The closest was the guideline on Vanity pages, which doesn't apply here. Another few spot checks from the dates that the 2009 and 2013 edits show the guideline was much looser then, more along the lines of "strongly discouraged but sometimes okay". WP:PAID (T-H-L) didn't exist until 2015. The only edits mentioned after this point seem like the DYK in 2016 (which doesn't look good, if true), and adding entries to a bibliography in 2022 (which seems uncontroversial to me). The sockpuppetry allegations don't look good either, though that also stopped in 2015.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Most of the allegations are very old, 2005-2013. For the 2005 page creation, we didn't even have a COI policy, just a failed proposal. The closest was the guideline on Vanity pages, which doesn't apply here. Another few spot checks from the dates that the 2009 and 2013 edits show the guideline was much looser then, more along the lines of "strongly discouraged but sometimes okay". WP:PAID (T-H-L) didn't exist until 2015. The only edits mentioned after this point seem like the DYK in 2016 (which doesn't look good, if true), and adding entries to a bibliography in 2022 (which seems uncontroversial to me). The sockpuppetry allegations don't look good either, though that also stopped in 2015.

Even if we assume that anything done before the COI policy was a written policy, it's still rotten as hell. Nihonjoe (now identified as Joe Monson) made no effort to declare past conflicts of interest and continued to edit on pages where had an active conflict of interest. Here's a completely mundane edit from October on conference with which he is still involved. Why not just note on the talk page that he's a connected contributor? He's an admin and a bureaucrat - he knows the expectations.

Look at this 2023 edit on Larry Correia. Correia was the guy who started Sad Puppies (T-H-L). Does it make sense to remove this short section? Is it ok that a guy who knows Correia is the one doing it?

Saying "those socks weren't him and, besides, even if they were it was in 2015" sounds like you're willing to overlook anything rather than just admit that this is a serious ethical failure from someone who is supposed to be holding themselves to a higher standard.

[Vigilant]

Most of the allegations are very old, 2005-2013. For the 2005 page creation, we didn't even have a COI policy, just a failed proposal. The closest was the guideline on Vanity pages, which doesn't apply here. Another few spot checks from the dates that the 2009 and 2013 edits show the guideline was much looser then, more along the lines of "strongly discouraged but sometimes okay". WP:PAID (T-H-L) didn't exist until 2015. The only edits mentioned after this point seem like the DYK in 2016 (which doesn't look good, if true), and adding entries to a bibliography in 2022 (which seems uncontroversial to me). The sockpuppetry allegations don't look good either, though that also stopped in 2015.

Even if we assume that anything done before the COI policy was a written policy, it's still rotten as hell. Nihonjoe (now identified as Joe Monson) made no effort to declare past conflicts of interest and continued to edit on pages where had an active conflict of interest. Here's a completely mundane edit from October on conference with which he is still involved. Why not just note on the talk page that he's a connected contributor? He's an admin and a bureaucrat - he knows the expectations.

Look at this 2023 edit on Larry Correia. Correia was the guy who started Sad Puppies (T-H-L). Does it make sense to remove this short section? Is it ok that a guy who knows Correia is the one doing it?

Saying "those socks weren't him and, besides, even if they were it was in 2015" sounds like you're willing to overlook anything rather than just admit that this is a serious ethical failure from someone who is supposed to be holding themselves to a higher standard.

Overlook things that would get a bog standard editor indef'd in a fucking heartbeat.

[Kraken]

Where's the proof bureaucrats even are the most trusted users on Wikipedia? They can do very little and don't seem to do very much.

What little they do, if it's not boringly routine, is usually met with an assortment of whinging and waffling. I don't think they're what people think they are. I don't think they know what they are.

Two are also Arbitrators. Wtf is that about? It feels like some kind of Wikipedia incest, never mind conflict of interest.

What they definitely are, is easily ignored by power Admins like Floquenbeam when the need arises, as seen in the latest RfA. Floquenbeam does what the does because he knows he is widely trusted (or just doesn't care what others think).

I have no clue who Floquenbeam is. I'd like to know because he's almost the exact opposite of a Bureaucrat is supposed to be on paper, namely a safe pair of hands not prone to sudden movements that inevitably get other people into difficulties on the high seas of Wikipedia.

Now for the fun bit.

I'm very familiar with unfounded allegations having had that happen to me here in the past. Nothing is getting swept under the rug. Chill. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 17:43, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Crat slam!

We call that doing it Crat style.

[TheWordsmith]

Even if we assume that anything done before the COI policy was a written policy, it's still rotten as hell. Nihonjoe (now identified as Joe Monson) made no effort to declare past conflicts of interest and continued to edit on pages where had an active conflict of interest. Here's a completely mundane edit from October on conference with which he is still involved. Why not just note on the talk page that he's a connected contributor? He's an admin and a bureaucrat - he knows the expectations.

Look at this 2023 edit on Larry Correia. Correia was the guy who started Sad Puppies (T-H-L). Does it make sense to remove this short section? Is it ok that a guy who knows Correia is the one doing it?

Saying "those socks weren't him and, besides, even if they were it was in 2015" sounds like you're willing to overlook anything rather than just admit that this is a serious ethical failure from someone who is supposed to be holding themselves to a higher standard.

I'm not overlooking anything, and I'm not saying the socks weren't him. I don't have any information other than what's in the post, so I'm saying nothing about how true the accusations are because I don't know. If they are true, the recent ones are plenty bad and I assume Arbcom is doing their own investigation.

A question was asked above about "what was the state of the applicable policies at the time?" and I answered that.

[SarekOfVulcan]

Look at this 2023 edit on Larry Correia. Correia was the guy who started Sad Puppies (T-H-L). Does it make sense to remove this short section? Is it ok that a guy who knows Correia is the one doing it?

I'd go with "yes, it makes sense". Sad Puppies (T-H-L) was already linked twice in the article, it was a short section where the ref markup was about the same length as the rest of the section, and there might have been UNDUE issues with leaving it.

Now Vox Day and the Rabid Puppies (T-H-L), that's another story.

[C&B]

It's a shame, but I don't expect anything to happen to Nohinjoe. Administrators, Burocrats, and even arbitrators will circle the wagons over this. The fact that it rests on private evidence gives them a free pass to do so, and no one will question it for fear of outing.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Look at this 2023 edit on Larry Correia. Correia was the guy who started Sad Puppies (T-H-L). Does it make sense to remove this short section? Is it ok that a guy who knows Correia is the one doing it?

I'd go with "yes, it makes sense". Sad Puppies (T-H-L) was already linked twice in the article, it was a short section where the ref markup was about the same length as the rest of the section, and there might have been UNDUE issues with leaving it.

Now Vox Day and the Rabid Puppies (T-H-L), that's another story.

That's funny, because it was Nihonjoe who first added the "Sad Puppies" section in 2015. It subsquently got trimmed after a discussion on the talk page lead to the creation of a Sad Puppies article (by Nihonjoe, in fact). So it was fine for 8 years until Nihonjoe decided that it was no longer fine. Someone tried to add a slightly expanded (and more accurate) version in December, but they were reverted by Correia SPA Frdino (T-C-L).

[Kelly Martin]

All Utahn editors are suspect.

ftfy

[Vigilant]

Joe didn't edit today and this section showed up just now on his talk page.

[The Blue Newt]

Joe didn't edit today and this section showed up just now on his talk page.

One of us! One of us! Gooble gobble, one of us!

[The Garbage Scow]

Joe didn't edit today and this section showed up just now on his talk page.

Morphdog (T-C-L) is the original account for Sagflaps (T-C-L). They exercised RTV in 2020. I'm just waiting for someone to delete the comment from Joe's talk and block Sagflaps and Morphdog as NOTHERE.

[Vigilant]

Joe didn't edit today and this section showed up just now on his talk page.

Morphdog (T-C-L) is the original account for Sagflaps (T-C-L). They exercised RTV in 2020. I'm just waiting for someone to delete the comment from Joe's talk and block Sagflaps and Morphdog as NOTHERE.

He had an earlier account prior to Morphdog.

[Kraken]

Aquaveo

If you are editing this article, and let's say theoretically speaking, you had a close connection to the company, you would need to disclose this as a conflict of interest, would you not? Sagflaps (talk) 04:55, 15 February 2024 (UTC

Why is sagflaps being such a saggy flap about it?

As it stands, all Nihonjoe has to do is say yes to this pointless hypothetical. I can only assume it was phrased this way because Sgflaps was operating under the false impression that asking directly would be some kind of violation.

You are allowed to put the question to Nihonjoe directly.

If you believe an editor has an undisclosed COI and is editing in violation of this guideline, raise the issue in a civil manner on the editor's talk page, which is the first step in resolving user-conduct issues, per the DR policy, citing this guideline. 

Hi Nihonjoe. Do you have a conflict of interest with this company?

You can't link to the blog post, but you can present it as the reason for your query....

If private information must be shared to resolve a COI issue, ask one or more uninvolved functionaries if they would be willing to examine the private details by email. Functionaries are editors with advanced permissions who have signed the Wikimedia Foundation's access to nonpublic information agreement. If they agree, follow the advice in WP:OUTING: "Only the minimum information necessary should be conveyed and the minimum number of people contacted." The priority should be to avoid unnecessary privacy violations.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Joe "Nihonjoe" Monson is at Life, the Universe, & Everything 42 in Provo, Utah. He is probably too busy to reply to hypothetical questions left on his talk page.

[Vigilant]

It's been 4 days since incontrovertible proof of his perfidy was posted.

Nothing.

Tell me again how en.wp treats all editors the same.

[Giraffe Stapler]

It's been 4 days since incontrovertible proof of his perfidy was posted.

Nothing.

Tell me again how en.wp treats all editors the same.

It has begun, in the most Wikipedia way.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aquaveo

[utbc]

It's been 4 days since incontrovertible proof of his perfidy was posted.

Nothing.

Tell me again how en.wp treats all editors the same.

It has begun, in the most Wikipedia way.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aquaveo

Kashmiri has been around forever. I don't know why they risked their account like that.

[redbaron]

It's been 4 days since incontrovertible proof of his perfidy was posted.

Nothing.

Tell me again how en.wp treats all editors the same.

It has begun, in the most Wikipedia way.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aquaveo

Kashmiri has been around forever. I don't know why they risked their account like that.

It helps to avoid "Speedy keep - nominator is a sock" arguments, though...

[C&B]

Did anyone catch what PhilKnight (T-C-L) just redacted?

[rnu]

Did anyone catch what PhilKnight (T-C-L) just redacted?

From memory, something along the lines of "it has been suggested that the author and the editors of the article have a COI" with a link to Wikipediocracy (the blog post, I think).

[C&B]

Thanks!

I wondered whether Kashmiri thought he was actually helping Nohinjoe, by removing evidence. But I suppose that would never have worked. And adding links to here would seem him to be skating around OUTing, as utbc said above.

Does it also mean that we now know Phil Knight is also a reader here

[utbc]

Nihonjoe is back, for anyone who does not want to miss anything live. If a non-sock were to be interested in doing something about the report, they would post to arbcom talk. There are ways to make a very public issue out of it without violating outing. And no one is going to be able to silent you or fault you if you find one.

"It is fair to assume at this point that arbs and functs are aware of serious and credible allegations of misconduct against crat Nihonjoe. Considering the position of trust they occupy, some statement from arbcom seems called for, on whether they are investigating and if they have determined no action needs to be taken until it concludes. Please say so if you are all waiting for someone to make an official report."

[rnu]

Aquaveo

If you are editing this article, and let's say theoretically speaking, you had a close connection to the company, you would need to disclose this as a conflict of interest, would you not? Sagflaps (talk) 04:55, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

I've never been paid to edit the article, if that's what you're implying. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:47, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Comment: I don't know about the creator of the article, or any of the other contributors, but I haven't ever been paid to work on the article. It's just found within one of many topics I find interesting. All of my contributions have been working to improve the article by adding references, removing marketing speak, and expanding it based on references I found (pretty much what I do for every other article I work on). As it stands right now, it's pretty much on the border of notability, and it could go either way. The Deseret News article is definitely a solid source. As the nom noted, most of the others are more informational references that (taken together) might push it over into notability, but also may not. So, I could go either way. If it is decided to delete the article, I'd request it be userfied so I can work on it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Dodging the question of COI like a champ.

[Kraken]

Treating people like they're stupid is not a good look for a Bureaucrat.

But this was always a possibility given the rather daft way the issue was raised.

[Vigilant]

Accounts of article creator and contributors have been alleged to be affiliated with the company.

[rnu]

Apparently pointing out that Nihonjoe's bullshit "arguments" in the deletion discussion are bullshit is harassment.

[Vigilant]

Apparently pointing out that Nihonjoe's bullshit "arguments" in the deletion discussion are bullshit is harassment.

6 days since the blog post dropped.

Nothing has been done.

Joe is arguing at AfD for keeping at article he never should have edited.

[Giraffe Stapler]

I wonder if Joe "Nihonjoe" Monson knows Michael Kennard software engineer at Aquaveo (the company where Monson works). There's a page on Aquaveo's site which lists "Draft MT3DMS page on Wikipedia" among other product updates made by mkennard. That page has been deleted, but it was created by Unjedai (T-C-L). Michael Kennard uses that same username on Flickr and YouTube. They were never very active, but among other things, Unjedai uploaded all of the logos for the Aquaveo software.

Since we're talking about COI in the geosciences, I might as well tell you that Jhdavison (T-C-L) is Jason Davison, who worked for Aquanty when he created the article about their HydroGeoSphere (T-H-L) product. No idea how that didn't get deleted in 2014 with those references.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Apparently pointing out that Nihonjoe's bullshit "arguments" in the deletion discussion are bullshit is harassment.

6 days since the blog post dropped.

Nothing has been done.

Joe is arguing at AfD for keeping at article he never should have edited.

Personally, I'm quite enjoying watching Nihonjoe digging himself deeper into that hole. I think everyone should just let him do that until the hammer falls.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Oh my. Joe "Nihonjoe" Monson just flat out lied in the Aquaveo AFD. When asked if he'd ever worked for Aquaveo, he said:

Yes, though not until well after I made the majority of my edits there.

Let's see, Joe Monson began working at Aquaveo in June 2015 according to his LinkedIn page. Nihonjoe's first edit to the Aquaveo article was September 2015. So after he started working for them, not before as he says.

[Vigilant]

Oh my. Joe "Nihonjoe" Monson just flat out lied in the Aquaveo AFD. When asked if he'd ever worked for Aquaveo, he said:

Yes, though not until well after I made the majority of my edits there.

Let's see, Joe Monson began working at Aquaveo in June 2015 according to his LinkedIn page. Nihonjoe's first edit to the Aquaveo article was September 2015. So after he started working for them, not before as he says.

I'm sure any bog standard editor who got caught lying about their COI editing would surely be given a week prior to getting dragged by their ear to ANI.

Right?

[rnu]

Nihonjoe: This is an RS.
That article from 1999 is about a different company.
Nihonjoe: That is a previous name of the company.
That company took over Aquaveo.
Nihonjoe: That company became Aquaveo. All the people from the old company worked for Aquaveo later.
Do you have a source for that? aka BURDEN
Nihonjoe: BURDEN applies to articles, not discussions.

(Note that the claim about people wouldn't prove anything about the companies either. Of course the people from the old company would work for the company that bought the old company. Although the Aquaveo homepage suggests that Aquaveo indeed is a successor, not a buyer.)

Nihonjoe: There may be other sources.
Do you have any other sources?
Nihonjoe: It is not my job to find sources.

[C&B]

So in the gospel according to Nihonjoe, it's not the job of an article creator to find sources, but an AfD nominator must "make sure there aren't any articles or other reliable, third-party sources".