Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

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Hemiauchenia
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Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by Hemiauchenia » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:09 am

I already told this story in another thread, but I thought it was worth recounting in full here with proper diffs, because It's totally bizarre, and a comedy of errors that illustrates how Wikipedia fails BLP subjects. It's not exactly fresh at this point, but whatever.

For those unfamiliar Adam Riess (T-H-L) is a physics professor at Johns Hopkins University, who was one of the joint winners of the Nobel Prize in Physics in 2011 for his work on the accelerating expansion of the Universe.

In December 2019, an anonymous IP user whos address resolves to Copenhagen, Denmark added a "Controversy" section to Adam Riess's article diff, the text read as follows:
Serious discrepancies have been pointed out regarding data disseminated by Riess and collaborators and it has been suggested that anisotropies of the local Universe have been deliberately misrepresented as dark energy. As of December 2019 these discrepancies remain unexplained. Questions have also been raised about the statistical methodology of the team.
(Citations removed for clarity)

All this physics jargon might be confusing, so I'll explain what is being added here: Essentially, these papers are from a minor group of physicists dubbed the "dark energy deniers", who oppose the consensus view in mainstream theoretical physics that a poorly understood form of energy called "dark energy" is responsible for the expansion of the universe. The IP user is accusing Riess and colleagues of deliberately misrepresenting their data, which is libellous in my view.

Two of the citations included the author Subir Sarkar, a Professor of Physics at Oxford University, and, until 2019 of the Niels Bohr Institute, Copenhangen. More on them later.

This segment was then revised the next day by another user to remove all but the last sentence.

On 23 March 2020, the brand new user BattleOrc (T-C-L) expanded the controversy section again, readding the sentence originally added by the IP user that Riess and co had "deliberately misrepresented". diff On 21 April, BattleOrc added the same claims to the article of Riess collaborator Saul Perlmutter (T-H-L) diff.

On the 23 April, BattleOrc added an accusation to the controversy section of Riess's article that Riess and colleagues had doctored their data, cited to a youtube interview with Sakar linked in a blogpost. diff The allegations of doctoring were removed by another user, citing that they were not a reliable sources, but BattleOrc added them back. diff,

The whole controversy section was removed by an IP on the 25 April, who stated that "Riess was awarded the Nobel Prize for the discovery of an apparent acceleration of the expansion of the Universe, not for the discovery of Dark Energy. So any challenges to Dark Energy do not pertain to the 2011 Nobel Prize", this was swiftly reverted without explanation by veteran vandal fighter Materialscientist (T-C-L), using Huggle.

On the 28th of April, a Baltimore, Maryland IP (Note: This is where Johns Hopkins University is located) 130.167.171.156 (T-C-L) removed the whole section again with the edit summary:
Deleted section "Controversy". Group led by Subhir Sakar and his students cited here and identified by Physics Work in 2016 as "Dark Energy Deniers" see https://physicsworld.com/a/the-dark-energy-deniers/ claim there is no dark energy. They are free to their opinion but the biography of Dr. Riess is not the place for this. Sarkar kicked out of Niels Bohr Institute for harassment such as this. Statement of doctored data is libelous, based only on linked interview claim by Dr. Sarkar himself
diff

On the 6 of May, BattleOrc readded the controversy section, with the edit summary "Restoring the controversy section as there is sufficient information in the public domain to verify it" diff The Baltimore IP then removed the section again later that day stating:
Removed section on controversy as its inappropriate to be placed here. BattleOrc please place citation to your own work in a more relevant place such as one of the areas in Cosmology, not under Riess's bio
diff

This deletion was swiftly reverted by (now permanently blocked) Galendalia (T-C-L), citing disruptive editing:diff

The Baltimore IP then reverted again, with the summary "Please stop vandalizing Dr. Riess's bio. A letter has been sent to info-en-q@wikimedia.org" diff This was, yet again, reverted by MaterialScientist with no valid reason. diff, it was again removed by the IP diff, before being re-added by ThadeusOfNazereth (T-C-L), citing "non constructive editing" diff The material was removed again, this time by brand new user Nriess (T-C-L) diff before being added back, yet again, by Materialscientist diff. The Ip removed it again, before being added back by C.Fred (T-C-L) who claimed that the edits were "not vandalism - you need to discuss this at the talk page and convince us why the material doesn't comply with policy and should be removed". diff

It should be noted, when these users were restoring this material, they were also restoring the portion where Weiss was accused of doctoring his data cited to the Youtube interview, a clear violation of BLPSPS.

That section was at last removed my Morbidthoughts (T-C-L), who amongst all of the people restoring the material, was the only one to realise that it was a clear BLP vio. diff

The page was then protected by DeepfriedOkra, citing "disruptive editing" diff

The IP user added the following to the talkpage of ThadeusofNazareth, I can't directly link to the diffs because they have been oversighted, but I can confirm that other than the single redaction it is unaltered:
Dear Wikipedia

My name is Adam Riess and I am an American Astrophysicist and winner of the 2011 Nobel Prize in Physics for the discovery of the accelerating Universe and Dark Energy.

I recently noticed that there have been two efforts to “vandalize” my wikipedia entry

1). A user name BattleOrc (who I understand to be (Redacted)) has been putting in a section called “Controversy” about his teams work denying the existence of dark Energy. They are free to have their own opinion, but they are fringe and my bio entry is not an appropriate place to air their grievances and dispute with the Nobel Prize.

I have removed this section and explained why in the comments but BattleOrc keeps restoring it.

2) A section on the Calan/Tololo Survey seeking credit for the Nobel work. The Calan/Tololo Project has its own wikipedia entry and that is the appropriate place to discuss it. Not my bio entry.

I have removed this section (writing as 130.167.171.156) but BattleOrc keeps restoring it.

I consider these attempts to settle scores or air grievances in my biographical entry in appropriate at best and libelous at worst. My bio entry should be simple and to the point and not have sections on other people’s diatribes, respectfully.

I kindly request that my entry is “frozen” so that it can’t be edited again by BattleOrc.

Best Adam Riess 130.167.171.156 02:13, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
version after redaction

I think given the context that the IP address resolves to Baltimore, where Riess works, I think it is plausible, and indeed likely in my view, that the IP is indeed Adam Riess. It's clear from context, even though it has been oversighted, that the IP/Weiss assumes BattleOrc to be Subir Sarkar, which makes sense given that the December 2019 IP resolved to Copenhagen, where Sakar formerly worked.

This resulted in a bunch of posts to various noticeboards, including the BLPN Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard/Archive302#Adam_Riess (T-H-L), AN Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive320#Adam_Riess (T-H-L), and ANI Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1036#Issues_at_Adam_Riess (T-H-L) none of which were particulalry sympathetic to Riess, despite the "controversy" section added by BattleOrc/Sakar claiming that Riess had doctored his research.

Eventually, all of the content that had constituted the controversy section was removed by Thadeus of Nazareth on the mid-day of the 7 May, citing OR diff.

In my view, this was a colossal comedy of errors, particulalry on the part of the "vandal fighters", who continually re-added the material despite not actually bothering to read the content to understand what the IP/Reiss was trying to remove was a BLP vio and not actually supported by the cited sources.
Last edited by Hemiauchenia on Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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AndyTheGrump
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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by AndyTheGrump » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:41 am

'Vandal fighters' can be a fucking menace at times. Years back I had a run-in with one that restored grossly-WP:BLP-violating content concerning an alleged sexual act by a named minor. Said 'vandal fighter' claimed to have done it because the content in question had been removed by an IP, with no edit summary. Didn't even read the content concerned, by all appearances. Stupidity is par for the course, with this lot, and I'm not the slightest bit surprised their contribution to the mess you describe was to foul it up even more.

As for Riess and his arch-enemies sparring on Wikipedia, its somewhat disheartening to see, but again doesn't surprise me much. Your average theoretical physicist is generally smart enough to figure out how the place works, and to exploit the ignorance of others if motivated enough to do so. There are quite probably further similar undetected WP:BLP violations out there, most likely concerning physicists etc who haven't been paying attention to what Wikipedia says about them. Needless to say, if one of them spots this sort of nonsense and attempts to do anything about it, they are almost certain to get accused of having a 'conflict of interest' in trying to correct it. This is of course complete bollocks (WP:COI essentially says as much) but the ignorant Wikilawyers out to engage in point-scoring are almost always the first people they encounter. It's probably just as well the universe is expanding, because otherwise it would rapidly fill up as a consequence of Wikipedia's ever-increasing methods to ensure that subjects of articles are treated like dirt...

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by Smiley » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:50 am

AndyTheGrump wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:41 am
'Vandal fighters' can be a fucking menace at times. Years back I had a run-in with one that restored grossly-WP:BLP-violating content concerning an alleged sexual act by a named minor. Said 'vandal fighter' claimed to have done it because the content in question had been removed by an IP, with no edit summary. Didn't even read the content concerned, by all appearances. Stupidity is par for the course, with this lot, and I'm not the slightest bit surprised their contribution to the mess you describe was to foul it up even more.
A thousand times this ⬆️

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by Hemiauchenia » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:04 am

AndyTheGrump wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:41 am
There are quite probably further similar undetected WP:BLP violations out there, most likely concerning physicists etc who haven't been paying attention to what Wikipedia says about them.
Of course, I remember the one where an IP user 50.137.238.55 (T-C-L) added a fake editorial position for a predatory journal to the lead of the Nobel prize winning physicist and mathematician Roger Penrose (T-H-L) back in 2012, and it wasn't removed until 2020 when I noticed this thread from SmutClyde on Twitter:
They had spammed the journal to several articles and added fake editorial board positons for other distinguished physicists, none of which had been reverted in the preceeding eight years. I systematically removed all of them, which was really annoying with anomiebot adding them all back when they were cited elsewhere in the article.

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by tarantino » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:24 am

Hemiauchenia wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:09 am
That section was at last removed my Morbidthoughts (T-C-L), who amongst all of the people restoring the material, was the only one to realise that it was a clear BLP vio. diff
Morbidthoughts is a porn industry insider who's spent a lot of time defending bios of porn performers. It's nice to see he's branched out.

His commons uploads
His flickr account
His twitter feed

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by Giraffe Stapler » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:46 am

Why doesn't Subir Sarkar have an article on Wikipedia?

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Hemiauchenia
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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by Hemiauchenia » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:03 am

Giraffe Stapler wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:46 am
Why doesn't Subir Sarkar have an article on Wikipedia?
He did actually have an article created back in 2010, but it was swiftly moved to draftspace, which then got abandoned and subsequently deleted three years later, see Subir Sarkar (T-H-L)

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by bagofworms » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:00 am

AndyTheGrump wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:41 am
There are quite probably further similar undetected WP:BLP violations out there, most likely concerning physicists etc who haven't been paying attention to what Wikipedia says about them.
Not to mention entire articles on scientists created to discredit them, e.g. Kendall Clements (T-H-L), Garth Cooper (T-H-L), Doug Elliffe (T-H-L), Robert Nola (T-H-L), and John Werry (T-H-L). These were all created in one day by Stuartyeates (T-C-L), with the bulk of each article consisting of the same 300-word controversy section (and of course lacking balance from any RS describing support for the scientists' position).

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by Hemiauchenia » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:29 am

bagofworms wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:00 am
AndyTheGrump wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:41 am
There are quite probably further similar undetected WP:BLP violations out there, most likely concerning physicists etc who haven't been paying attention to what Wikipedia says about them.
Not to mention entire articles on scientists created to discredit them, e.g. Kendall Clements (T-H-L), Garth Cooper (T-H-L), Doug Elliffe (T-H-L), Robert Nola (T-H-L), and John Werry (T-H-L). These were all created in one day by Stuartyeates (T-C-L), with the bulk of each article consisting of the same 300-word controversy section (and of course lacking balance from any RS describing support for the scientists' position).
Very tempted to do a batch deletion on those

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by Jim » Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:06 pm

bagofworms wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:00 am
Not to mention entire articles on scientists created to discredit them
...
These were all created in one day by Stuartyeates (T-C-L), with the bulk of each article consisting of the same 300-word controversy section (and of course lacking balance from any RS describing support for the scientists' position).
I saw a thread pop up at ANI, after being raised at the NPOV noticeboard by Cleisthenes2 (T-C-L), and knew I'd seen something like it here. I was surprised it was so long ago, though - tempus fugit...

Drama at Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard (permalink...)

Stuartyeates (T-C-L) appears to be about to get a BLP topic ban.

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by Ada Sinn » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:46 pm

Why don't the theoretical physicists have a fistfight in a dark alley, instead of "fighting" on Wikipedia like little kids?
<|>

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by Capeo » Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:21 pm

Jim wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:06 pm
bagofworms wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:00 am
Not to mention entire articles on scientists created to discredit them
...
These were all created in one day by Stuartyeates (T-C-L), with the bulk of each article consisting of the same 300-word controversy section (and of course lacking balance from any RS describing support for the scientists' position).
I saw a thread pop up at ANI, after being raised at the NPOV noticeboard by Cleisthenes2 (T-C-L), and knew I'd seen something like it here. I was surprised it was so long ago, though - tempus fugit...

Drama at Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard (permalink...)

Stuartyeates (T-C-L) appears to be about to get a BLP topic ban.
Yeates really should be getting an indef. He announced his intention on Twitter to make articles on these people that would paint them as racists and then did so. They were pure attack pages. There has certainly been a lot of controversy around the whole affair in NZ but, as you note, it's not nearly as one sided as Yeates portrayed it. He claims the Garth Cooper article being nothing but negativity was because those were the only RS he could find, which is patent bullshit. He claims that he somehow missed that Cooper is of Maori decent and has advocated for Maori causes when that was even in one of the RS he used, and was also trivial to find in RS regarding Cooper. He wasn't looking to make an article about Cooper or any of the other academics though, as evidenced by the cut and paste controversy section being 95% of their bios too.

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by trout » Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:47 am

Hemiauchenia wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:09 am
In my view, this was a colossal comedy of errors, particulalry on the part of the "vandal fighters", who continually re-added the material despite not actually bothering to read the content to understand what the IP/Reiss was trying to remove was a BLP vio and not actually supported by the cited sources.
As far as I know, all of the people who make the most noise on those notice boards on Wikipedia are absolutely useless people making a song and dance out of everything for the fun of it all. I'm sure none of them cares a hoot about "BLP violations" or any other Wikipedia policy.

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by BattleOrc » Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:29 am

Hi

My name is Mohamed Rameez. My wikipedia username is BattleOrc.

I am a collaborator of Subir Sarkar. However, I act independently of him online. In particular all my online actions should reflect only on me, and my collaborators before are not consulted before.

As for claims of my edits being libellious, you may take a look at https://github.com/dscolnic/Pantheon/issues/2

or, https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1 ... 382/ac0f39

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by iii » Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:59 am

BattleOrc wrote:
Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:29 am
Hi

My name is Mohamed Rameez. My wikipedia username is BattleOrc.

I am a collaborator of Subir Sarkar. However, I act independently of him online. In particular all my online actions should reflect only on me, and my collaborators before are not consulted before.

As for claims of my edits being libellious, you may take a look at https://github.com/dscolnic/Pantheon/issues/2

or, https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1 ... 382/ac0f39
You think it's appropriate that you are inserting citations to your collaborations into the biographies of your rivals? Do you think that fighting on Wikipedia is somehow a preferred way to hash out your agreements instead of, say, in the Astrophysical Journal or Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society?

I'm glad you haven't been active on WP for two years. Maybe keep it that way.

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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by Zoloft » Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:02 am

Ahem.

Per tradition,
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Re: Guest starring Nobel Prize winning Physicist Adam Riess

Unread post by eppur si muove » Tue Aug 02, 2022 5:57 pm

It's nice to see Dr Rameez recognising Wikipedia's nature as an MMORPG by adopting the userid of BattleOrc.

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