Wikipediocracy

turnedworm

I'm glad Ritchie.

I have been heartened by all the kind messages, the majority when I stepped down from Arbcom - and it appears I've personally stopped half a dozen editors I consider boons to the encyclopedia from quitting, a wonderful legacy.

turnedworm

Hey folks. I'm not certain that me leaving is worth a thread, it's not that interesting. But to allay any concerns, long stop is a cricketing term for the fielder behind the wicket keeper, when the wicket keeper misses the ball. I was referring to points 5 and 6 of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki...

turnedworm

After 5 and three quarter years, I figured I need a break (plus a previous term). And if I'm on the committee when the election comes round, I'll put my hat in the ring - I know what I'm like. That would be good for no one.

turnedworm

Although I support the proposal, I was already fairly certain it would not pass right now, and was wondering which kind of wiki-hell would drag it into no consensus territory. The answer is.... wait for it... multiple spur-of-the-moment alternate proposals. Sorry Worm, I've seen way too many decent...

turnedworm

Worm, I don't get it. Only two to six admins lose their privileges for cause each year. How many of them were blocked for a full four weeks before that happened? ... What are you smoking where you envision a scenario where the community will block an administrator for 28 days, allow them to remain ...

turnedworm

Nah, the one just before that, I was off on hols for the Jimbo affair.

turnedworm

No Ledge wrote: ↑
Mon Apr 17, 2023 5:57 pm

Worm wrote:Recent events have brought home to me that we are still lacking in ways to handle poor behaviour by administrators.
?? What recent events have turned the worm?

Yet another drama at arbcom, where there was a clear outcome and no need to use the archaic arbcom procedures.

turnedworm

I do sez that and my word iz final. Seriously though, I'm saying that we shouldn't do anything permanent without giving the the subject a chance to have their say, but also that I agree that we should be removing the bit. Give them 3 months - real life emergencies, reflecting and responding, whateve...

turnedworm

... WTT has certainly turned - turned coat, more like, he used to be a reasonably fair guy.... I'm not sure if it's the stuff I've been voting on recently or my mindset, but I've definitely seen a more hardline in my decisions. That said, I've not seen anywhere where I've looked back and thought I ...

turnedworm

Interestingly I had some consideration recently for a "jury of peers" style community desysop. Needs a bit more work, but it does give an idea how we could make a jury service work on Wp. User:Worm That Turned/Lightweight community desysop (T-H-L)

turnedworm

That’s begging the question. Some people apparently seem to view RF’s behavior as “continued abuse of their talk page,” to wit, proxy socking. I’m not sure I agree with that, for the reasons you mention here, and I mention above, but this isn’t just some form of curtain-twitching nosiness. I disagr...

turnedworm

Because admins are not a homogenous group.

Many didn't indef him. I did.

turnedworm

Have to say, the busy-bodies here are just as bad as the busy bodies on Wikipedia. The only difference is that I (as blocking admin) wouldn't be summoned here in the same way, I suppose. So, let's be clear. The rule on Wikipedia is "editing of the user's talk page should be disabled only in cases of...

turnedworm

Lead balloon last year. Oh, and it looks like I can't stay away. I'm as bad as the wiki rage quitters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... erm_length

turnedworm

I'm literally pleading with you, Worm/Dave/Mr Wikipedia Arbitrator, or any other admin watching.... sort this out. One buttonclick on this page: User:Darkness Shines: Revision history Yeah, no. For so many reasons that should be obvious to you, though they boil down to - I'm in the same election, I...

turnedworm

I'm amazed how quickly forum trust can go downhill.

A shame, really.

turnedworm

Vigilant wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:15 pm
Who have I targeted that you feel did not deserve my attentions?
Feel free to expound.

I'm honestly interested in your viewpoint on this topic.

If you are genuinely interested and willing to listen. I'll come back to you on that.

turnedworm

One last question, With the benefit of hindsight, what would you have done differently on the Frammageddon case? I don't dwell on the past, what's done is done. But - The private / public evidence didn't work. Fram should have seen the document. The scatter gun approach of remedies didn't work. I s...

turnedworm

Please accept my genuine thanks for answering my questions directly. You are welcome, and I will now say a bit. I am willing to answer the same questions on Wikipedia, to the same detail, though I'm aware I will get a more hostile line of questioning here. I don't believe in the banned = unperson. ...

turnedworm

After this all exploded, Jimmy and the WMF said that they would stand by whatever ARBCOM decided. What would have happened if ARBCOM had said, "ARBCOM will not give countenance to secret trials. We are voiding the entirety of the Trust&Safety decision and are opening a public case on this matter in...

turnedworm

(Also mods, I would certainly appreciate these comments being moved to a Fram thread - since I don't want to hijack Arbcom elections thread) I would request that the mods not move this. The Frammageddon was the central case for ARBCOM during the last term. There are multiple reasons to discuss this...

turnedworm

Was Fram was afforded a fair hearing and a chance to clear his name? We attempted to give them one. They are still editing to this day. This is disingenuous. I can see why you say that. I did not see how to give Fram a fairer hearing than we gave him based on the constraints we were under. I am per...

turnedworm

Interesting. Is the bolded quote part of T&S's remit? Seems like this alone should result in the disbanding of the entire department. Political officers for the WMF? I don't know enough of T&S remit, but I'm sure they could argue it was. Simply, I am putting forward an opinion that there were other...

turnedworm

Did Laura Hale do good work? I'd rather not answer that question, as it would simply be my opinion and the individual in question has left. Was Laura Hale being paid for editing en.wp against policy? I believe so. Was Fram protecting the wiki from a serial producer of garbage promotional articles? ...

turnedworm

From here Ok, so what is the chance that T&S, of all the thousands (millions?) of wp-editors, by pure chance , goes after the, eh, adversary of the spouse of the WMF leader? (or "chair of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees", to be official; see María Sefidari ) About the same chance as bein...

turnedworm

@worm In retrospect, does the Fram case seem like it was well handled? As above, no. But - I will point to the impossible position of a public / private case, a very turbulent time, and lack of cohesion as a committee. In particular, are you proud of what you wrote? I got some things wrong with hin...

turnedworm

Given what has been uncovered about Laura Hale, Maria Sefidari, the paid editing, the corrupt off-wiki coordination, etc, how do you square your participation in the Frammageddon? 2019 was turbulent for the entire community, the vast majority of the committee stepped down or stepped back for a sign...

turnedworm

Moderator's note: This thread was split from here , since the posts did indeed seem to be mostly off-topic for the Arbcom Elections thread. People should ask the Worm about how he handled himself in the Frammageddon. Search this page for 'worm'. Given what has been shown in this thread Dave is hard...

turnedworm

Looking at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2021#Vacant seats , it's mostly us crusty old timers whose terms are expiring. I don't recall who has and has not said so publicly, but there's a few who for sure are not running again, and Xeno already resigned. So there may be fairly h...

turnedworm

In other words, the ones who have been on the committee too long?

turnedworm

I don't think we are overwhelmed any more.

While we have regular meetings with T&S - I think the easing has been down to the community taking care of problems far earlier, nipping issues in the bud so they don't escalate to arbcom.

We still deal with private stuff, but it's manageable

turnedworm

Up until a few years ago, Arbcom could lift community bans in all cases under BASC. It made duplication rather pointless

turnedworm

That's almost the Tu Quoque fallacy in that Ashley has had bad relations with an enormous number of people over the years and shamelessly used his sexuality as both a shield and a sword in these disputes. AGF isn't a suicide pact and all that. I don't disagree, but my point still stands. This isn't...

turnedworm

Well that's interesting. Not only does Guy do the no-prounoun "Fae" thing multiple times in February, but so do others in that thread, including an arb (WTT). https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fæ&oldid=1015799357 Nobody, including Fae, objected. You'd think Guy would have led wit...

turnedworm

I don't generally condone taking over blocks as a committee, unless there are good offwiki reasons. Abuse at the committee is something we just deal with. I absolutely agree with Beebs on the emails though. IHA, check what you sent on Sunday, March 21, 2021 2:19 PM, if it helps I did not send anyth...

turnedworm

Is it possible for ArbCom to receive official permission from IHA to post whatever emails ArbCom thinks IHA sent. Email spoofing exists. I don't think that's necessary. I don't feel any need to air any more in public, "he said she said" just perpetuates things. I don't believe IHA is actively disag...

turnedworm

I don't generally condone taking over blocks as a committee, unless there are good offwiki reasons.

Abuse at the committee is something we just deal with.

I absolutely agree with Beebs on the emails though. IHA, check what you sent on Sunday, March 21, 2021 2:19 PM, if it helps

turnedworm

Whereas, Wikipedian admins love all that stuff. They practically live for it apparently, because it's a huge power trip for them and gives them something to do that doesn't involve boring article maintenance and content research. And since nobody is paying them, the WMF's attitude towards it is bas...

turnedworm

The FramBan became a huge drama not because the WMF banned an editor, but because the WMF banned an admin. I disagree - indeed, one of the first two bans the WMF handed out was on an admin. There was no uproar. The issue was the fact that Fram was banned from one site only - which took it away from...

turnedworm

Have to say, I find the concept unseemly. Not to mention that they couldn't (or wouldn't) afford me

No, I'd be stepping down if money became involved

turnedworm

I would support something like 10-year terms with re-confirmation RFAs. The trick is in the initial implementation, how to avoid overloading the project with so many at once that nobody can possibly keep track of all of them. If only someone would put together a plan for exactly that.... People mig...

turnedworm

Nice bit of detective work, thanks. I wonder what made that particular rename cause all that. Because the rename counts as making an action on every wiki that exists when you take the action, meaning you need to have an account created there. I have about 390 for the same reason but there were less...

turnedworm

However, we do forget how much "privilege" an "ordinary" editor gets. How many other sites can you simply change the content? Rename pages? I also wouldn't say Checkusers "lead" the community - they mostly play whack-a-mole with long term problematic editors and stop people trying to subvert consens...

turnedworm

There are dozens of CUs and yet usually just a few pull the weight of the whole crew, which in time concentrates power in those few individuals, leading to a power imbalance and severe abuse as exhibited by Bbb23 for a long time. The activity requirements should be more stringent - without faulting...

turnedworm

I don't think it's about the individual in question, but rather about our inactivity requirements for functionaries. As long as the individual is active on wiki, and understands how the tool works and the rules around them, I don't generally see the need to push for removal of a tool. There are good...

turnedworm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#CheckUser/Oversight_permissions_and_inactivity The requirement is 5 logged actions in a 3 month period. What's more, it's not a "yank immediately" type thing, as we acknowledge that real life can get in the way - so we email an...

turnedworm

We made it a full 5 days with a full committee this year. Xeno is out, halfway through their term, to do WMF things. So, I'm just seeing this now, but it doesn't appear there is any discussion on Wikipedia about what do with the seat. I know these usually just sit vacant but it seems kinda crazy to...

turnedworm

I was referring to the fact that a non admin was elected. But since that non admin was really an admin without the bits, everyone just happily moved on and forgot about it, making the whole exercise pointless

turnedworm

Randy from Boise wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:24 pm
Yeeeeeeep. There has never been a non-arb elected and neither of those two are gonna be the first.

RfB

Not one that counts as a non-admin anyway.

turnedworm

You've done a lot of things that would have gotten someone less connected banned. lol whatever dude, despite your conspiracy theories about me being "connected" as if I'm in the admin mafia, I have very few friends on Wikipedia. I don't have a cult following like Eric did, defending my every action...

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