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EthicalWiki 
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EthicalWiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-07-23/Op-ed

What are your thoughts on "EthicalWiki"?

Also in this week's Signpost:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2012-07-23/Paid_editing

Edit: It seems as if the people running "Did you know..." don't do a very good job of checking articles for notability and quality:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/EthicalWiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2012/July#22_July_2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#EthicalWiki (permalink)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/EthicalWiki

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Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:31 pm WWW
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Michaeldsuarez wrote:
What are your thoughts on "EthicalWiki"?

My thought is that it's pretty freakin' hilarious that the guy (David King) who founded EthicalWiki and has an annoying habit of sounding like he's the biggest know-it-all on how to "ethically" engage on Wikipedia... WROTE AND PUBLISHED HIS OWN ARTICLE ABOUT HIS COMPANY, which goes against most Wikipedia guidelines and policies on conflict-of-interest editing.

What a tool.

Oh, and it's also funny that while the 'pediots discuss whether or not the article can stay, one thing they'll make sure of is to remove any journalistic reference to my writing on Examiner.com! So, at least that's one constant on Wikipedia.

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Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:39 pm WWW
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thekohser wrote:
Michaeldsuarez wrote:
What are your thoughts on "EthicalWiki"?

My thought is that it's pretty freakin' hilarious that the guy (David King) who founded EthicalWiki and has an annoying habit of sounding like he's the biggest know-it-all on how to "ethically" engage on Wikipedia... WROTE AND PUBLISHED HIS OWN ARTICLE ABOUT HIS COMPANY, which goes against most Wikipedia guidelines and policies on conflict-of-interest editing.

What a tool.

Oh, and it's also funny that while the 'pediots discuss whether or not the article can stay, one thing they'll make sure of is to remove any journalistic reference to my writing on Examiner.com! So, at least that's one constant on Wikipedia.


About a year or a little longer ago I tried to run up a link to an Examiner.com piece in a WP piece and found out that it was on some sort of black list of sites. Not sure why, but the software wouldn't let me leave a live link in the footnotes...

RfB


Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:11 pm
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Randy from Boise wrote:
About a year or a little longer ago I tried to run up a link to an Examiner.com piece in a WP piece and found out that it was on some sort of black list of sites. Not sure why, but the software wouldn't let me leave a live link in the footnotes...

RfB

You're really "not sure why"? How long have you been on Wikipedia?

Let me help you with an answer.

One Wikipedia loophole is to leave the "http://" out of the link. It won't form a hyperlink, but you can publish non-active links to Examiner that way.

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Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:39 pm WWW
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thekohser wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
About a year or a little longer ago I tried to run up a link to an Examiner.com piece in a WP piece and found out that it was on some sort of black list of sites. Not sure why, but the software wouldn't let me leave a live link in the footnotes...

RfB

You're really "not sure why"? How long have you been on Wikipedia?

Let me help you with an answer.

One Wikipedia loophole is to leave the "http://" out of the link. It won't form a hyperlink, but you can publish non-active links to Examiner that way.

That's some funny stuff right there. It implies that Wikipedia blacklists all sites that have no reputation for editorial control. Paging Mr. Wales, Mr. Wales to the white courtesy phone...


Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:15 pm
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Oh, and ethical wiki dyk got to the main page thanks to that loveable lunk Randy "Pumpkinsky" Everett (nee "Rlevse"). He's one of my favorites as an example of the hamster wheel that is "editor conduct" interventions (as opposed to, you know, making underlying changes that would actually improve things).


Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:33 pm
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Randy from Boise wrote:
About a year or a little longer ago I tried to run up a link to an Examiner.com piece in a WP piece and found out that it was on some sort of black list of sites. Not sure why, but the software wouldn't let me leave a live link in the footnotes...

RfB


examiner.com has been blacklisted since October 2009:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2009_Nobel_Peace_Prize&diff=320100460&oldid=320064027

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist&diff=320105605&oldid=320062488

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist/archives/October_2009#Examiner.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist&diff=322349641&oldid=322293221

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Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:55 pm WWW
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The AfD discussion apparently caused an user to retire:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AWoz2&diff=504619901&oldid=504506231

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/EthicalWiki&diff=504727094&oldid=503993908

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Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:33 pm WWW
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Michaeldsuarez wrote:
The AfD discussion apparently caused an user to retire...

I wonder if Woz2 is one of King's secret paid editors, for when they can't get traction for a client using the "ethical" approach?

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Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:00 am WWW
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While I am aware that a lot of people see Wikipediocracy as a forum for griping by blocked editors, I was surprised to see a banned user and potential competitor saying false and misleading things to smear my reputation. Casual readers may read this string under the false assumption that the comments are made by a credible editor in good-standing, rather than a competitor notorious for trolling.

Though I will say the firm was still under-developed a year ago when this string was started. Now-a-days most of our client articles are brought up to the "Good Article" standard and I've gotten a lot of positive feedback from the community.

-David King, EthicalWiki


Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:37 pm
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David King wrote:
While I am aware that a lot of people see Wikipediocracy as a forum for griping by blocked editors, I was surprised to see a banned user and potential competitor saying false and misleading things to smear my reputation. Casual readers may read this string under the false assumption that the comments are made by a credible editor in good-standing, rather than a competitor notorious for trolling.

Though I will say the firm was still under-developed a year ago when this string was started. Now-a-days most of our client articles are brought up to the "Good Article" standard and I've gotten a lot of positive feedback from the community.

-David King, EthicalWiki

David, firstly welcome.

Having known Greg through this site and its predecessor for several years I know a couple of things:

Being banned by Wikipedia is not considered a stain on someone character nor is it an indicator of their reliability. Greg is not only honest but can justify his statements and will admit to error on the occasions where he finds he has made a mistake.

One man's trolling is another man's means of bringing facts that are hidden about the corruption within Wikipedia, led by Jimbo, to light.

So I think you need to justify your suggestion that you have not edited articles about your own interests and that Greg is commenting on you with the aim of damaging a competitor. With regard to the latter, I very much doubt that Greg is interested in competing, which generally makes me form the impression that you have inflated sense of people's interest in you.

You are welcome to make your case here, but do not assume that people will take your word over Greg's on your say so, you need to provide some convincing evidence.

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Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:15 pm
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The burden of proof lies with the accuser. The bolder the claim the higher the standard of poof that is needed.

He "wonders" if Woz2, who has 8,000+ edits, is some kind of covertly sponsored co-conspirator in a paid editing scam. On what basis is his "curiosity" piqued? What possible "proof" could anyone provide one way or another? And how is it that a baseless conspiracy theory with no evidence requires evidence against it?

-David


Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:53 pm
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David King wrote:
The burden of proof lies with the accuser. The bolder the claim the higher the standard of poof that is needed.

He "wonders" if Woz2, who has 8,000+ edits, is some kind of covertly sponsored co-conspirator in a paid editing scam. On what basis is his "curiosity" piqued? What possible "proof" could anyone provide one way or another? And how is it that a baseless conspiracy theory with no evidence requires evidence against it?

-David

I see that in David's America, we citizens are no longer allowed to wonder aloud. I guess my hunch was wrong here, and thankfully for the good of Wikipedia, the "retirement" of Woz2 only lasted 4 months. Sorry, Mr. King. You still wrote your company's own Wikipedia article, all while saying you're "ethical". Run that past Jimbo, and let us know what he says.

Regardless, here's my "standard of poof", for you, Mr. King.

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Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:02 pm WWW
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Woz2 (T-C-L) says he's Colin Warwick on his user page. Colin is a product marketing manager at Agilent Technologies. A small percentage of his edits would be considered conflict of interest editing.

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Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:07 pm
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It is not unethical to write a Wikipedia article on your own company, especially if done in user-space as was done here. There is also nothing wrong with Woz2 noticing the article in user space and putting it into article-space, even after I told him it was previously declined at AfC. It just so happens to have been a bad edit in that particular case, not due to any corruption on anybody's part, but because every editor makes mediocre edits now and then.

What is unethical is using Wikipedia for covert advertising and censorship, not disclosing a financial connection as required by the FTC's disclosure laws, or in the worst of cases, mis-representing a financial connection, violating Wikipedia's terms of use.

Of course that first one of not using Wikipedia for advertising or whitewashing is the most difficult, because it can be done to a mild extent accidentally and even while following Bright Line or Bright Line(ish) strategies. It is also open to interpretation and can only be evaluated in the context of a specific article. Many cos behave in an extremely unethical fashion, but don't necessarily know better.

-David


Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:22 pm
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David King wrote:
...... the higher the standard of poof that is needed.

Dear-oh-dear.....

So you're CorporateM (T-C-L)? Must say I love the "I contribute to Wikipedia relatively equally in both a volunteer and a marketing role" thing. Relatively, of course.


Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:26 pm
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David King wrote:
The bolder the claim the higher the standard of poof that is needed.

You need a standard of poof? :huh:

Personally, I probably would have assumed that Woz2 was acting independently, but it does look a little fishy. So why no flat-out denial? Do you think it's beneath you? Maybe it is... or maybe you don't even know?

:sparkles:


Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:32 pm
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I have no financial connection with Woz2. Yes, it is a bit odd that I would have to "deny" it, when there is no reason to assume it in the first place...

-David


Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:36 pm
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David King wrote:
I have no financial connection with Woz2. Yes, it is a bit odd that I would have to "deny" it, when there is no reason to assume it in the first place...

Well, there is a reason for the average, interested bystander to assume it. The question is whether or not it's true. To be honest you don't seem to be absolutely sure yourself. Hey, I'm just sayin'.


Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:42 pm
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Welcome to the forum David.

I don't believe our members questioning your business model will much bother your competitive standing.

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Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:02 pm
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Zoloft wrote:
I don't believe our members questioning your business model will much bother your competitive standing.

Yes, David has walked the ultimate tightrope, and survived.

When you've got clueless Wikipedians defending your paid editing from other paid editors, you're golden.
Plus helping to get rid of your critics.

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Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:08 pm WWW
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David King wrote:
I have no financial connection with Woz2. Yes, it is a bit odd that I would have to "deny" it, when there is no reason to assume it in the first place...

-David

Well, you did have public discussions with him about the ins and outs of paid editing, as far back as March 2012. And here's Colin sniffing about on your blog in July 2012. One could be forgiven to have perhaps assumed that maybe a "reciprocal back scratching" relationship developed from that point.

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Last edited by thekohser on Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:23 pm WWW
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Midsize Jake wrote:
You need a standard of poof? :huh:


No pooftahs!

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Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:30 pm
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David, I am curious -- is there some particular (non-financial, of course) connection between you, Colin Warwick (Woz2), and Brian Halligan and HubSpot?

Also, it does appear that Woz2 is simply a habitual article-space-enabler of paid content, so I was probably off-base on my musing that maybe he had a financial interest in helping get EthicalWiki into the article space. He's just an unpaid "buddy" of the paid editing guys, is that more it?

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Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:02 pm WWW
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It's kind of weird how CorporateM kind of buzzed right on out of here, once the direct questions came his way.

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Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:06 pm WWW
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thekohser wrote:
It's kind of weird how CorporateM kind of buzzed right on out of here, once the direct questions came his way.
It's kind of weird that he didn't respond to this thread: link

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Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:50 pm
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thekohser wrote:
It's kind of weird how CorporateM kind of buzzed right on out of here, once the direct questions came his way.

It's the "Wikipedia Way". Get caught doing something, run and hide until it blows over.

Don't be afraid, David! We don't hate you, we just want to understand you......

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Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:49 pm WWW
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