"F*ck the community, who cares"

Unread post by **HRIP7** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:06 pm

There is currently an emotionally charged discussion on the Wikimedia-l mailing list, sparked by this post from Tomasz Kozlowski:

This week's issue of the English Wikipedia Signpost delivers mildly shocking news about the opinion of a "prominent female Wikimedian (...) about the meaning of the movement and the role of the chapters" as expressed during the Boards training workshop that took place between March 1-2 in London.

The Wikimedian is quoted by the treasurer of Wikimedia Deutschland, Steffen Prößdorf, as saying: "if we can buy free knowledge, we should do that [and] just forget about the communities" and "Fuck the community, who cares."

I understand that the identity of the person will remain secret, given that there is no public list of attendees of the workshop, so let me just say that the idea that chapters can "fuck the community" is absolutely unacceptable and should by rejected by all chapters immediately.

Read more at:
* <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _and_notes>
* <http://steproe.wordpress.com/2014/04/05 ... utschland/>

Frankly, just coming from the Cwmhiraeth editor review, I wonder whether the person who said that might just have had a point.

thekohser · Unread post by **thekohser** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:51 pm

In my experience, "the community" on Wikipedia is the small sub-segment of the most contentious, whiny, abusive, and argumentative people that compose what really ought to be "the community", and that is the hundreds of millions of readers of Wikipedia. Therefore, my gut says that this particular "F*ck the community, who cares" is probably mostly on-target.

dogbiscuit · Unread post by **dogbiscuit** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:10 pm

Time and again the community has said "Fuck the encyclopedia, who cares?" If the community isn't interested in building an encyclopedia, and those who we* would identify as "the community" are more interested in the politics, then I'd agree that they have it right.

I don't think that the WMF really know what the right answer is. Their mind says they are building en encyclopedia, their heart says they are a community, but whenever the WMF have wanted to do something, however incompetent, we see that they see the community as a hindrance rather than a help or a goal of their effort.

On the other hand, if respecting the community means that Gerard is part of the WMF CEO hiring committee having winkled his way in from community, then I also say "Fuck the community!".

*Yes, I know.

enwikibadscience · Unread post by **enwikibadscience** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:48 pm

HRIP7 wrote:There is currently an emotionally charged discussion on the Wikimedia-l mailing list, sparked by this post from Tomasz Kozlowski:
This week's issue of the English Wikipedia Signpost delivers mildly shocking news about the opinion of a "prominent female Wikimedian (...) about the meaning of the movement and the role of the chapters" as expressed during the Boards training workshop that took place between March 1-2 in London.

The Wikimedian is quoted by the treasurer of Wikimedia Deutschland, Steffen Prößdorf, as saying: "if we can buy free knowledge, we should do that [and] just forget about the communities" and "Fuck the community, who cares."

I understand that the identity of the person will remain secret, given that there is no public list of attendees of the workshop, so let me just say that the idea that chapters can "fuck the community" is absolutely unacceptable and should by rejected by all chapters immediately.

Read more at:
* <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _and_notes>
* <http://steproe.wordpress.com/2014/04/05 ... utschland/>
Frankly, just coming from the Cwmhiraeth editor review, I wonder whether the person who said that might just have had a point.

Lol. Try to remain superficial with Cwmhiraeth. Much of what she writes is far worse when you try to technically decipher it, but, because of the word plagiriasm, may lightly read okay with a scan.

You got sucked into the morass.

enwikibadscience · Unread post by **enwikibadscience** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:50 pm

thekohser wrote:In my experience, "the community" on Wikipedia is the small sub-segment of the most contentious, whiny, abusive, and argumentative people that compose what really ought to be "the community", and that is the hundreds of millions of readers of Wikipedia. Therefore, my gut says that this particular "F*ck the community, who cares" is probably mostly on-target.

I feel sorry for the readers, the general source of my frustration with Cwmhiraeth's articles is that.

Jim · Unread post by **Jim** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:08 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:I feel sorry for the readers, the general source of my frustration with Cwmhiraeth's articles is that.

We do understand that. I'm not sure there's a cure, though. Cwmhiraeths (plural) will always exist because the environment embraces, encourages and "rewards" them with little pictures and badges to put on their page. And they like that.

enwikibadscience · Unread post by **enwikibadscience** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 2:37 pm

Jim wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:I feel sorry for the readers, the general source of my frustration with Cwmhiraeth's articles is that.
We do understand that. I'm not sure there's a cure, though. Cwmhiraeths (plural) will always exist because the environment embraces, encourages and "rewards" them with little pictures and badges to put on their page. And they like that.

The WikiCup trophy is not a little picture. Let's strive for accuracy here, too.

Jim · Unread post by **Jim** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:20 pm

enwikibadscience wrote: The WikiCup trophy is not a little picture. Let's strive for accuracy here, too.

And here's me thinking you'd just freak out at my suggestion of "Cwmhiraeths (plural)". Go figure.

enwikibadscience · Unread post by **enwikibadscience** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:24 pm

Jim wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote: The WikiCup trophy is not a little picture. Let's strive for accuracy here, too.

And here's me thinking you'd just freak out at my suggestion of "Cwmhiraeths (plural)". Go figure.

I am not sure she was ever the problem rather than the community that promotes and rewards her work. And I think they already have a name, Randies in Boise.

<---- Please, only one.

Jim · Unread post by **Jim** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:31 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:I am not sure she was ever the problem rather than the community that promotes and rewards her work.

Yeah, to be fair, you've always said that.
I think you were at great pains to say how nice she probably is, but that the articles are problematic.

Not, I'm afraid, a language Wikipedians can understand. It has to be personal, or where's the fight? It needs to be binary.
And if there's no fight, where's the fun?

Repeat after me: "It's not about building an encyclopedia..."

enwikibadscience · Unread post by **enwikibadscience** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:37 pm

Jim wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:I am not sure she was ever the problem rather than the community that promotes and rewards her work.
Yeah, to be fair, you've always said that.
I think you were at great pains to say how nice she probably is, but that the articles are problematic.

Not, I'm afraid, a language Wikipedians can understand. It has to be personal, or where's the fight? It needs to be binary.
And if there's no fight, where's the fun?

Repeat after me: "It's not about building an encyclopedia..."

Your

meets my

.

Jim · Unread post by **Jim** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:50 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:Your meets my .

So long as they don't have babies. I couldn't bear the thought of being responsible for another

on here. I'm thinking of asking the RSPCA (T-H-L) to ban the smiley altogether, frankly.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:30 pm

At this point I pretty much agree wiht the thread in relation to Wikipedia, F*ck the community, who cares". The culture has become part of the problem. The WMF and the site and the culture as a whole only care about the Admins. Editors are viewed as an expendable commodity to be abused, beaten down and thrown away when no longer useful or when they start to see that the system is broken and start trying to change it.

EricBarbour · Unread post by **EricBarbour** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:52 pm

My favorite part: the very first response was a total non-sequitur -- from Fred Bauder.

Once the money an organization obtain from grants out matches anything they get from anywhere else they become autonomous. "Community support" just becomes a box to check.

Plus, Russavia says:

I, for one, don't disagree with paid editing, so long as it is inline with expected community standards.

This, of course, comes from a guy who tried to spam his online business on Wikipedia articles.....

And oh look, there's Fae, stirring up the argument and beating the hornet's nest. Woo hoo.

lilburne · Unread post by **lilburne** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:08 am

EricBarbour wrote: And oh look, there's Fae, stirring up the argument and beating the hornet's nest. Woo hoo.

It seems that we are back in 1970.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:19 am

EricBarbour wrote:And oh look, there's Fae, stirring up the argument and beating the hornet's nest. Woo hoo.

Well, someone will have to take the blame.

Wikipediocracy

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