Last visit was: Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:43 am
It is currently Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:43 am



 [ 40 posts ] 
More on anonymity, promotion and attack... 
Author Message
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 2265
Wikipedia User: Bali ultimate
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy
Unread post More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
The Israel-Palestine battleground on Wikipedia has long been an arena for activists, not scholars. But some of the identities are starting to come to the surface.

This asserts that Wikipedia editor Soosim (T-C-L), a long time editor on team "settlers are teh awesome, there is no such thing as Palestinians!" is in fact Gerald Steinberg, (T-H-L) (or one of his employees), who runs the "take a right at Likud and keep going" NGO Monitor (T-H-L).

Interestingly enough the account making the complaint, רסטיניאק (T-C-L), was shortly before accused by "Soosim" of being lefty Israeli anti-settlement activist Amiram Goldblum (T-H-L) (article of course created by Soosim and initially containing a section called the "Apartheid poll controversy" that said Goldblum had sponsored a poll on Israeli support for apartheid and that "Gerald Steinberg, from NGO Monitor, reviewed the poll’s results and found “manipulative methodology”, “false claims”, and “shallow questions” were used to deceive the participants and subsequently affected their responses." The רסטיניאק appears to have been created solely to fight with Soosim over the Goldblum article.)

The truth? Go know. I'm inclined to believe both of them.

I make this post in service of pointing out that Qworty was far from an isolated case. A large percentage of edits to Wikipedia are made by activists, a large number of edit wars involve people who hate each other and are on Wikipedia to defeat the enemy. Charge!

Adding: It appears Goldblum made the large mistake of admitting his identity early on at Wikipedia. He was very distressed at the creation of the article about him (an earlier version deemed an attack page was deleted; the account that made this edit was later abandoned, but linked somehow to the Hebrew name account):

Quote:
i AM NOT SURE THAT i ANSWER PROPERLY, BUT CLEARLY NEED YOUR PROTECTION. i DO NO REGARDS MYSELF AS ONE OF THE CHEMISTS WHO ARE IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO BE ON WIKIPEDIA - MAYBE i WILL CHANGE MY MIND, BUT THAT ONLY IF I MANAGE TO DISCOVER A MAJOR IMPORTANT ANTI CNACER DRUG, WHICH IS MY MAIN ACTIVITY i AM INDEED INVOLVED IN POLITICAL ACTIVITY AND THIS ARTICLE ABOUT ME WAS CLEARLY INTRODUCED FOR POLITICAL SMEARING OF ME. i CNA ALSO ADD THAT NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THE ITEMS UNDER THE "CONTROVERSY" TITLE IN MY "BIOGRAPHY" IS CORRECT, AND THE ONLY PARTIALLY CORRECT ONE MENTIONS FINANCIAL QUESTIONING OF MY SUPPORT TO PM BARAK IN 1990, BUT I WAS NEVER CHARGED IN COURT FOR THAT, SO THAT IS A LIE AS WELL. aLL THE "SOURCES" CITED IN MY BIOGRAPHY, EXCEPT FOR THE NEUTRAL ONES ABOUT MY UNIVERSITY POSITION, ARE "SELF CREATED".

YOU MAY SAFELY DELETE MY NAME FROM WIKIPEDIA, AS THERE IS NO REASON YET TO INCLUDE ME THERE

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP, Rastiniak (talk) 18:48, 12 August 2012 (UTC)AMIRAM


Last edited by DanMurphy on Sat May 25, 2013 9:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.



Sat May 25, 2013 8:53 pm
Online
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Posts: 2377
Location: Boise, Idaho
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
DanMurphy wrote:
The Israel-Palestine battleground on Wikipedia has long been an arena for activists, not scholars. But some of the identities are starting to come to the surface.

This asserts that Wikipedia editor Soosim (T-C-L), a long time editor on team "settlers are teh awesome, there is no such thing as Palestinians!" is in fact Gerald Steinberg, (T-H-L), who runs the "take a right at Likud and keep going" NGO Monitor (T-H-L).

Interestingly enough the account making the complaint, רסטיניאק (T-C-L), was shortly before accused by "Soosim" of being lefty Israeli anti-settlement activist Amiram Goldblum (T-H-L) (article of course created by Soosim and initially containing a section called the "Apartheid poll controversy" that said Golbdlum had sponsored a poll on Israeli support for apartheid and that "Gerald Steinberg, from NGO Monitor, reviewed the poll’s results and found “manipulative methodology”, “false claims”, and “shallow questions” were used to deceive the participants and subsequently affected their responses." The רסטיניאק appears to have been created solely to fight with Soosim over the Goldblum article.)

The truth? Go know. I'm inclined to believe both of them.

I make this post in service of pointing out that Qworty was far from an isolated case. A large percentage of edits to Wikipedia are made by activists, a large number of edit wars involve people who hate each other and are on Wikipedia to defeat the enemy. Charge!


Deconstructing the anonymous POV warriors of the Israel-Palestine civil war on WP would be an interesting enterprise. I'll bet it's sock puppet paradise...

RfB


Sat May 25, 2013 9:02 pm
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 2265
Wikipedia User: Bali ultimate
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Ah, "Soosim" is Arnie Draiman based on this edit ("This is a second attempt to use this page, by the author of the content himself," edit summary on creation of the article.) And his second edit.

Quote:
uncle g and the rest of the editors:

hi!

i am the author of the page, both in the wikipedia version and the version on danny siegel's website. danny can be contacted at: siegelz@aol.com to confirm.

i am happy to be of assistance as well: soosim@netmedia.net.il

(i admit, that i do not fully understand the wikipedia system, but i hope i am getting close to getting this right).

thanks.

arnie draimanSoosim (talk) 16:37, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


Draiman's linkedin account lists his current job as :

Quote:
Online and Social Media Guy
Israel Advocacy

February 2010 – Present (3 years 4 months)

Responsible for all online social media with an amazing amount of experience in facebook, wikipedia and twitter, in addition to managing about 15 websites, including a 25,000 page website in english and hebrew, and more...


He appears to have close ties to NGO Monitor. Either as a hobby or in a professional capacity, I couldn't say (Never mind, he's an NGO Monitor staffer in charge of online communications according to the website's current staff list.)

In the comments on this article he's defending/promoting NGO Monitor. He seems like just the sort of editor Wikipedia needs in this arena:

Quote:
Arnie Draiman
July 6, 2011 at 5:43 am

sue – here is a one minute piece that was on israeli tv a few weeks ago about breaking the silence. i think the points that they make bear consideration. it certainly is how i feel – i have been here 26 years, and have served in the IDF for more than 12 years in exclusively arab areas with some of the most criminal arab terrorists out there. never among my unit (of about 90+ people) was there anything like this.

ooops – here is the link! http://www.youtube.com/NgoMonitor


So it goes, so it goes.


Sat May 25, 2013 9:19 pm
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 8443
Location: yes
Wikipedia User: EricBarbour
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Randy from Boise wrote:
Deconstructing the anonymous POV warriors of the Israel-Palestine civil war on WP would be an interesting enterprise. I'll bet it's sock puppet paradise...

I tried -- most of them are impenetrable. Also 100% crazy, goes without saying. Doesn't matter which "side" they're on either.

_________________
Image


Sat May 25, 2013 11:18 pm WWW
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:20 am
Posts: 1656
Wikipedia Review Member: The Joy
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
EricBarbour wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
Deconstructing the anonymous POV warriors of the Israel-Palestine civil war on WP would be an interesting enterprise. I'll bet it's sock puppet paradise...

I tried -- most of them are impenetrable. Also 100% crazy, goes without saying. Doesn't matter which "side" they're on either.


It's probably just one person playing around with himself.

Image

Palestine: "You'll never win, Israel!"
Israel: "No one can resist my helmet!"
Palestine: "Oh.. oh... your helmet!"
(Both start making out)

_________________
"In the long run, volunteers are the most expensive workers you'll ever have." -Red Green

Note: I am currently on long-term vacation/hiatus. PMs will likely go unanswered. E-mail me at thejoywr(at)gmail(dot)com if you need to contact me.


Sun May 26, 2013 12:06 am
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 am
Posts: 696
Location: Troll country
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Gerald M. Steinberg (T-H-L) has been occupied with Wikipedia for years.
He used to have dozens of files on Wikipedia-editing on his web-site at http://faculty.biu.ac.il/~steing/, in different groups. One, "profiles" detailed the editing of articles on about 15 NGOs, like B'Tselem (T-H-L), ICAHD (T-H-L), Sabeel (T-H-L), Machsom Watch (T-H-L), Human Rights Watch (T-H-L) and the like. Another profiling Wikipedia-editors, according to whether they added or removed criticism of the NGOs. (And that is how I found the files...I googled some wiki-names....) The files are now removed...but some can be found in archive: http://web.archive.org/web/201201200138 ... wikipedia/ (I took copies of all of them while they were up).

Off course, his own NGO Monitor (T-H-L) is certain to dish up some dirt on any NGO as soon as they criticise Israel. They are experts in producing (what we in my country call) "shit-packages". And they have people who make sure that these "shit-packages" goes into every wiki-article. Interestingly, his detailed study of wp is now removed from his web-site; doesn´t he want people to know how focused he was on Wikipedia?

And he isn´t the only person in Israeli "academics" doing this. Steven Plaut (T-H-L) is much worse; his http://www.Isracampus.org.il/ is not that much better than the notorious Masada2000 (T-H-L). In addition he (+his students) is reportedly behind one of Wikipedia worst vandals all-time. And also probably this guy: Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Truthprofessor (T-H-L)


Sun May 26, 2013 8:15 am
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 8443
Location: yes
Wikipedia User: EricBarbour
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
The Adversary wrote:
Gerald M. Steinberg (T-H-L) has been occupied with Wikipedia for years.
He used to have dozens of files on Wikipedia-editing on his web-site at http://faculty.biu.ac.il/~steing/, in different groups. One, "profiles" detailed the editing of articles on about 15 NGOs, like B'Tselem (T-H-L), ICAHD (T-H-L), Sabeel (T-H-L), Machsom Watch (T-H-L), Human Rights Watch (T-H-L) and the like. Another profiling Wikipedia-editors, according to whether they added or removed criticism of the NGOs. (And that is how I found the files...I googled some wiki-names....) The files are now removed...but some can be found in archive: http://web.archive.org/web/201201200138 ... wikipedia/ (I took copies of all of them while they were up).

Off course, his own NGO Monitor (T-H-L) is certain to dish up some dirt on any NGO as soon as they criticise Israel. They are experts in producing (what we in my country call) "shit-packages". And they have people who make sure that these "shit-packages" goes into every wiki-article. Interestingly, his detailed study of wp is now removed from his web-site; doesn´t he want people to know how focused he was on Wikipedia?

And he isn´t the only person in Israeli "academics" doing this. Steven Plaut (T-H-L) is much worse; his http://www.Isracampus.org.il/ is not that much better than the notorious Masada2000 (T-H-L). In addition he (+his students) is reportedly behind one of Wikipedia worst vandals all-time. And also probably this guy: Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Truthprofessor (T-H-L)

I'm quoting you on this. Thank you.

There are supposedly pro-Muslim organizations doing similar things; found any traces?

_________________
Image


Sun May 26, 2013 9:55 am WWW
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 am
Posts: 696
Location: Troll country
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
EricBarbour wrote:
There are supposedly pro-Muslim organizations doing similar things; found any traces?


I hardly edit/read religious articles; the most notable pro-Arab or pro-Muslim biased editing I know of is the Jagged85-affair.

I have heard there were at times more or less organised internal Muslim "fights" going on; Shia Muslim making sure their view on certain Muslim figures was represented, etc.
---------------------
This: Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/Runtshit (T-H-L) is also interesting, when one see which IP´s have been blocked: University of Haifa network ....and Central European University Network in Budapest.

Now, who has been associated with both places? :notsosure: :scream:


Sun May 26, 2013 10:41 am
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:28 pm
Posts: 839
Wikipedia Review Member: eppur si muove
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
The Adversary wrote:
This: Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/Runtshit (T-H-L) is also interesting, when one see which IP´s have been blocked: University of Haifa network ....and Central European University Network in Budapest.

Now, who has been associated with both places? :notsosure: :scream:


Any university who gives someone this barking (Steven Plaut (T-C-L)) a post does its credibility no good at all. He accuses Jews whose politics he dislikes of being self-hating Jews, but the bile he directs at other Jews whose politics don't match his suggests that he is the person who hates Jews. If you look at the history of left-wing thought, whether socialist, authoritarian communist or anarchist, there are sufficient numbers of Jews to suggest that proneness to that sort of thinking is part of his and my cultural background but Plaut cannot live with that and has to spend his time e-stalking RolandR.

Of course, there are the bankers, the neocons, quite a few members of Thatcher's cabinet, not to mention Plaut and the others who have travelled half way round the world to make his home where others used to live which suggest that Jews are equally over-represented in right wing thought. It's all part of the same culture whereby the Passover Haggadah has a comical passage describing how some rabbis stayed up all night while they invented arguments for there having been hundreds of plagues over the Red Sea. If Plaut cannot live with the fact that this tradition of Jewish culture creates loudmouths he disagrees with, then he is the real "self-hating" Jew.


Sun May 26, 2013 11:45 am
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 2265
Wikipedia User: Bali ultimate
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
The Adversary wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:
There are supposedly pro-Muslim organizations doing similar things; found any traces?


I hardly edit/read religious articles; the most notable pro-Arab or pro-Muslim biased editing I know of is the Jagged85-affair.

I have heard there were at times more or less organised internal Muslim "fights" going on; Shia Muslim making sure their view on certain Muslim figures was represented, etc.
---------------------
This: Wikipedia:Long-term_abuse/Runtshit (T-H-L) is also interesting, when one see which IP´s have been blocked: University of Haifa network ....and Central European University Network in Budapest.

Now, who has been associated with both places? :notsosure: :scream:

There isn't really an organized pro-Palestinian group of editors with the same hostility and gusto as the pro-settler/pro-Israel group on Wikipedia. There is definitely a group of pro-Palestinian editors with some off-line coordination and the rest, but not with the same zeal (I mean, here we find that NGO Monitor, which is an organization dedicated to attacking the credibility of any and all groups that criticize Israeli policy, has had a paid editor on all these pages for years; it looks as if he will be allowed to carry on editing. It hasn't occurred to them that maybe this is a very big problem).

The real craziness with Islam is, as you suspected, the Shia/Sunni fights over the articles pertaining to Islamic history and theology. For extra fun, since the hardcore believers in both sects insist that there really is no such thing as "Sunni" or "Shia" (there is only one true Islam, you see), unless you have a background in this area (the dreaded expertise again) it's very difficult to understand what's going on or how to fix the articles.

And you'd be crazy to try.


Sun May 26, 2013 2:02 pm
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 2265
Wikipedia User: Bali ultimate
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
And here is Arnie Draiman under his "Soosim" handle dissembling/lying:

Quote:
i have been editing wiki for more than 6 years. i am very active in arbia as are dozens and hundreds of other editors. being active is not coi. ("Beliefs and desires alone do not constitute a conflict of interest"). about three years ago, i came across an article that steinberg wrote, i liked it and follow him and his work closely. i also use information from ben dror yemini, but not from gideon levy or caroline glick. when i use material, i am very careful about RS and POV. many editors have helped me over the years to be more accurate and more in line with wikipedia policies. i am more than happy to have my detractors follow my edits and let me know if something is not inline with wiki policy. Soosim (talk) 07:50, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


Arnie Draiman is Soosim. Arnie Draiman is a paid employee of Steinberg's NGO Monitor. Mr. Draiman spends much of his on Wikipedia time going after NGO Monitor's opponents and making the group and its founder look better.

What's the difference between this and Robert Clark Young? Young was written about by Salon. Draiman has (not yet at least) brought Wikipedia "into disrepute."

Blech.

ADD: This is from last October.

Quote:
I was lucky enough to present a joint workshop with Arnie Draiman on the subject of Israel advocacy and new media for the Israel Research Fellowship. Arnie spoke about the battle for objectivity on Wikipedia. He spends about an hour a day making sure that facts are checked and verified on the online encyclopedia and that anti-Israel bias is not allowed to stand. He encourages all pro-Israel advocates to join the “wiki war.”


Sun May 26, 2013 8:18 pm
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 am
Posts: 696
Location: Troll country
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
DanMurphy wrote:
And here is Arnie Draiman under his "Soosim" handle dissembling/lying:

Quote:
i have been editing wiki for more than 6 years. i am very active in arbia as are dozens and hundreds of other editors. being active is not coi. ("Beliefs and desires alone do not constitute a conflict of interest"). about three years ago, i came across an article that steinberg wrote, i liked it and follow him and his work closely. i also use information from ben dror yemini, but not from gideon levy or caroline glick. when i use material, i am very careful about RS and POV. many editors have helped me over the years to be more accurate and more in line with wikipedia policies. i am more than happy to have my detractors follow my edits and let me know if something is not inline with wiki policy. Soosim (talk) 07:50, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


Arnie Draiman is Soosim. Arnie Draiman is a paid employee of Steinberg's NGO Monitor. Mr. Draiman spends much of his on Wikipedia time going after NGO Monitor's opponents and making the group and its founder look better.

What's the difference between this and Robert Clark Young? Young was written about by Salon. Draiman has (not yet at least) brought Wikipedia "into disrepute."

Blech.

ADD: This is from last October.

Quote:
I was lucky enough to present a joint workshop with Arnie Draiman on the subject of Israel advocacy and new media for the Israel Research Fellowship. Arnie spoke about the battle for objectivity on Wikipedia. He spends about an hour a day making sure that facts are checked and verified on the online encyclopedia and that anti-Israel bias is not allowed to stand. He encourages all pro-Israel advocates to join the “wiki war.”

Good Lord, just looking through some of his last 500 edits, and it brought up a whole "shit-list", adding "shit-packages" to anyone who is negative/critical to Israeli policy: Naim Ateek, Norwegian People's Aid, Ir Amim, Zochrot, John Dugard, Oxfam ….and here is a tactic I see used often in the I/P -area: if X criticise Israel, and any Israeli spokesman counter that criticism, then only place the second part in the article…..

And most of this is sourced to NGO-monitor, were he works.
Gerald M. Steinberg (T-H-L) must love him. :wub:

And I cannot work out if Soosim is lying, bluffing, sloppy......or if he is just plain dumb, but time after time he claims things which are so easily proven wrong:
Here he removes info sourced to B'Tselem (T-H-L), and Haaretz, claiming it does not meet WP:RS. But when he is called out on the talk-page to prove his claim that "there are many other places discussing btselem - and they are not reliable unless quoted in RS. that is, if the ny times, haaretz, maan, someone RS says that btselem said 'x', otherwise, no. got it?" then......... he just disappear.

Same story here: removes info with false edit-summary.

Works often together with Gilabrand (T-C-L), another lying, unblockable user.

Why are they not blocked?

Ah, but then, Soosim has friends in "high places" :D


Mon May 27, 2013 2:24 am
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 2265
Wikipedia User: Bali ultimate
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
The Adversary wrote:
DanMurphy wrote:
And here is Arnie Draiman under his "Soosim" handle dissembling/lying:

Quote:
i have been editing wiki for more than 6 years. i am very active in arbia as are dozens and hundreds of other editors. being active is not coi. ("Beliefs and desires alone do not constitute a conflict of interest"). about three years ago, i came across an article that steinberg wrote, i liked it and follow him and his work closely. i also use information from ben dror yemini, but not from gideon levy or caroline glick. when i use material, i am very careful about RS and POV. many editors have helped me over the years to be more accurate and more in line with wikipedia policies. i am more than happy to have my detractors follow my edits and let me know if something is not inline with wiki policy. Soosim (talk) 07:50, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


Arnie Draiman is Soosim. Arnie Draiman is a paid employee of Steinberg's NGO Monitor. Mr. Draiman spends much of his on Wikipedia time going after NGO Monitor's opponents and making the group and its founder look better.

What's the difference between this and Robert Clark Young? Young was written about by Salon. Draiman has (not yet at least) brought Wikipedia "into disrepute."

Blech.

ADD: This is from last October.

Quote:
I was lucky enough to present a joint workshop with Arnie Draiman on the subject of Israel advocacy and new media for the Israel Research Fellowship. Arnie spoke about the battle for objectivity on Wikipedia. He spends about an hour a day making sure that facts are checked and verified on the online encyclopedia and that anti-Israel bias is not allowed to stand. He encourages all pro-Israel advocates to join the “wiki war.”

Good Lord, just looking through some of his last 500 edits, and it brought up a whole "shit-list", adding "shit-packages" to anyone who is negative/critical to Israeli policy: Naim Ateek, Norwegian People's Aid, Ir Amim, Zochrot, John Dugard, Oxfam ….and here is a tactic I see used often in the I/P -area: if X criticise Israel, and any Israeli spokesman counter that criticism, then only place the second part in the article…..

And most of this is sourced to NGO-monitor, were he works.
Gerald M. Steinberg (T-H-L) must love him. :wub:

And I cannot work out if Soosim is lying, bluffing, sloppy......or if he is just plain dumb, but time after time he claims things which are so easily proven wrong:
Here he removes info sourced to B'Tselem (T-H-L), and Haaretz, claiming it does not meet WP:RS. But when he is called out on the talk-page to prove his claim that "there are many other places discussing btselem - and they are not reliable unless quoted in RS. that is, if the ny times, haaretz, maan, someone RS says that btselem said 'x', otherwise, no. got it?" then......... he just disappear.

Same story here: removes info with false edit-summary.

Works often together with Gilabrand (T-C-L), another lying, unblockable user.

Why are they not blocked?

Ah, but then, Soosim has friends in "high places" :D

Well, settle down. Wikipedia is easily gamed. For professionals it is more easily gamed than it is for amateurs. This is a professional gamer with a long pedigree. But he is among multitudes. Multitudes that almost all of us are missing.

Crowdsourcing is awesome!


Mon May 27, 2013 3:18 am
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:31 am
Posts: 936
Wikipedia User: Tarc
Wikipedia Review Member: Tarc
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Same shit, different year. A ways back it was Gni (T-C-L), i.e. Gileand Ini of the CAMERA affair.

_________________
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."


Mon May 27, 2013 3:30 am
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 am
Posts: 696
Location: Troll country
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
DanMurphy wrote:
Well, settle down. Wikipedia is easily gamed. For professionals it is more easily gamed than it is for amateurs. This is a professional gamer with a long pedigree. But he is among multitudes. Multitudes that almost all of us are missing.

Crowdsourcing is awesome!

Oh, I know, I know.
Many pro-Palestinian NGOs have learned these days: do not get an article on your NGO on English Wikipedia.
It is as simple as that.

Then the first google-result for your NGO will be your web-site...and not Wikipedia with stinking turds left all over the article by well-payed Israeli activists.

(PS: I live in a tiny little country; people here generally have a positive attitude to Wikipedia....except anyone in a pro-Palestinian group, who generally detest Wikipedia. I wonder why? :dry: )


Mon May 27, 2013 3:42 am
Habitué

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 3:51 pm
Posts: 1293
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Now at AE.

Timmy has thoughtfully linked the SPI case where Soosim is confirmed as Scarletfire2112 (Or more accurately, Scarlet is confirmed as Soosim.)

Arbitration Enforcement has a lower standard than COIN when it comes to blocking. There is no way Soosim can say they are not aware of ARBPIA, and with a confirmed sockpuppet? I dont see it ending well for them.

It could turn into a massive clusterfuck tbh, if wikipedia admins decide to go on a sockhunting/COI spree, most of the pro-Israel POV editors could be caught up in it.


Tue May 28, 2013 10:43 am
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:31 am
Posts: 936
Wikipedia User: Tarc
Wikipedia Review Member: Tarc
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Anroth wrote:
It could turn into a massive clusterfuck tbh, if wikipedia admins decide to go on a sockhunting/COI spree, most of the pro-Israel POV editors could be caught up in it.


I don't see how that could be anything but a huge net positive for the Wikipdia and for human decency in general.

_________________
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."


Tue May 28, 2013 12:52 pm
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 2265
Wikipedia User: Bali ultimate
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Tarc wrote:
Anroth wrote:
It could turn into a massive clusterfuck tbh, if wikipedia admins decide to go on a sockhunting/COI spree, most of the pro-Israel POV editors could be caught up in it.


I don't see how that could be anything but a huge net positive for the Wikipdia and for human decency in general.

Unfortunately, none of these people ever go away. Is Arnie Draiman (I wish I had used his name in the original header) going to stop his propaganda crusade on Wikipedia if his "Soosim" account is banned? Or will he be a little more clever and experienced in covering his tracks with his next account, and with a little magic "AGF" pixie-dust be able to carry on for another 3-4 years?

The latter of course.

The case is another failure of Wikipedia's so called rules and guidelines, in which they say the content of edits, not the character of the editor is what matters. But the content of Mr. Draiman's edits, as Soosim, have been skewed, frequently deceitful, and generally harmful to the supposed goals of the encyclopedia for years. His behavior made it clear he was a propagandist, but he carried on and on until it was decisively proven that he was a paid propagandist for NGO Monitor (something which, by the way, would have been technically disallowed on Wikipedia as "outing" if he hadn't slipped up with two edits in 2008; since his next account won't be so stupid well, you know).


Tue May 28, 2013 12:59 pm
Habitué

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 3:51 pm
Posts: 1293
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Tarc wrote:
Anroth wrote:
It could turn into a massive clusterfuck tbh, if wikipedia admins decide to go on a sockhunting/COI spree, most of the pro-Israel POV editors could be caught up in it.


I don't see how that could be anything but a huge net positive for the Wikipdia and for human decency in general.


Well yes I agree completely, but can you see it being handled in any way on wikipedia that wouldnt end in uproar? It probably would not even end up with the worst offenders banned...


Tue May 28, 2013 1:02 pm
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 am
Posts: 696
Location: Troll country
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Lurkers.....? :evilgrin:


Tue May 28, 2013 8:19 pm
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:26 am
Posts: 2607
Wikipedia User: SB_Johnny
Wikipedia Review Member: SB_Johnny
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
eppur si muove wrote:
If Plaut cannot live with the fact that this tradition of Jewish culture creates loudmouths he disagrees with, then he is the real "self-hating" Jew.

Well said. OTOH, I suspect a majority of well-educated people who identify as something-or-other are to some degree self-hating-something-or-others. It's not a Jewish thing, it's a human thing. :shrug:

_________________
This is not a signature.


Tue May 28, 2013 8:30 pm
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 8443
Location: yes
Wikipedia User: EricBarbour
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Anroth wrote:
It could turn into a massive clusterfuck tbh, if wikipedia admins decide to go on a sockhunting/COI spree, most of the pro-Israel POV editors could be caught up in it.

Excuse me, sir, are you aware they are already caught up in it? And even Arbcom have been unable to control any of them?

_________________
Image


Tue May 28, 2013 9:57 pm WWW
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 am
Posts: 696
Location: Troll country
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Oh dear, Steven Plaut (T-H-L) does not have a good influence on his students, does he?

Take Nataev (T-C-L). He introduces himself his user-page: "I'm Nodir from Isfana, Kyrgyzstan. I'm dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to Central Asia and its people. I am most active here on the English Wikipedia and also on the Uzbek Wikipedia.".

So, how the heck can a user "dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to Central Asia" become "indefinitely banned from making any edits about Amiram Goldblum (T-H-L) everywhere on Wikipedia"?... and having his appeal declined, too.
Has Amiram Goldblum quit beeing Israeli and become Central Asian??

Hmmm, lets see Uzbek Gymnasium No. 4 named after Usmon Matkarimov (T-H-L) , (completely written by Nataev (T-C-L); COI, anyone?)
under "Notable alumni":
Quote:
Nodir Ataev (class of 2006) - the third president of the school; in 2011, graduated as the most outstanding student of the International Ataturk-Alatoo University in Bishkek with a degree in management; received a full scholarship from the Global UGRAD program to study in the United States and attended Carroll College in Helena, Montana in the 2009-2010 academic year; currently doing an MA in economic policy at Central European University in Budapest, Hungary.
Central European University in Budapest; that was were Plaut was (and a Runtshit-sock). Young Nodir Ataev even publishes an article with Steven Plaut: Central Asia: Lessons for the Middle East, which argues for transfer (read: ethnic cleansing) of minorities. (Thats right: Palestinians from "Erezt Israel"...and Uzbeks and Tajiks from Kyrgyzstan.)
That´s on FrontPage Magazine (T-H-L), of course.

Apparently it is a short way from "most outstanding student" to "most outstanding fool." :facepalm:


Wed May 29, 2013 6:24 am
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 1:31 am
Posts: 936
Wikipedia User: Tarc
Wikipedia Review Member: Tarc
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
The Adversary wrote:


Wow, they may have finally ID'ed Runshit? Poor Roland has been abused for years by that jerk.

_________________
"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."


Wed May 29, 2013 1:05 pm
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 2265
Wikipedia User: Bali ultimate
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Tarc wrote:
The Adversary wrote:


Wow, they may have finally ID'ed Runshit? Poor Roland has been abused for years by that jerk.

More likely to be an incredibly obsessive/nasty student of Plaut's (or perhaps a relative), no? I don't care how crazy people say he is -- I don't know how he could hold a teaching position being that consistently crazy.

Both Steinberg and Plaut (and Arnie Draiman of course) spend a lot of time encouraging supporters/friends to join the "wiki war" as Draiman calls it.


Wed May 29, 2013 1:53 pm
Habitué

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 3:51 pm
Posts: 1293
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
DanMurphy wrote:
I don't care how crazy people say he is -- I don't know how he could hold a teaching position being that consistently crazy.


Really? Runt is an OCD abusive personality who has a vendetta. Plenty of us have encountered nutty/certifiable professors in our time, and there are examples of vengeful academics out there.

It doesnt mean he is a *good* teacher.


Wed May 29, 2013 2:09 pm
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:19 am
Posts: 1165
Wikipedia User: The Devil's Advocate
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Naturally, Mr. Draiman has exactly two entries in his block log and has been sanctioned only once at AE despite multiple reports of misconduct in the past. As it stands the admins are talking about an ARBPIA topic ban, but that would likely not be sufficient as he is more than capable of continuing NGO Monitor's propaganda campaign without making a single mention of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

_________________

"For those who stubbornly seek freedom around the world, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination."


- Noam Chomsky



Wed May 29, 2013 5:57 pm
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Posts: 5451
Location: San Diego
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Sent I-P fights to Gehenna. Any more and I'll lock a few accounts for a week.
:axemurderer:

_________________
♪♫ Isn't it enough to know I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ♫♪


Wed May 29, 2013 8:01 pm
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:18 pm
Posts: 3312
Wikipedia User: Nastytroll
Wikipedia Review Member: Lilburne
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Soosim - Indeffed and topic banned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk: ... :ARBPIA.29

_________________
They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind
So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined


Thu May 30, 2013 10:37 pm
Habitué

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 3:51 pm
Posts: 1293
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Time to play 'spot the sock'.


Fri May 31, 2013 6:40 am
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Posts: 2649
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
lilburne wrote:
Soosim - Indeffed and topic banned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk: ... forcement_
discretionary_sanction:_Indefinite_topic_ban_.28WP:ARBPIA.29

Appeal against ban refused.
Quote:
you and Scarletfire2112‎‎ are somehow related. I believe you are two different people who, however, know each other and have edited in a way that violates WP:MEAT. But that's immaterial: it's either a violation of WP:SOCK or of WP:MEAT and both are treated the same way. Salvio Let's talk about it!

I like the signature on that; the last thing Salvio will want to do is talk about it.

_________________
No connection with anyone else of the same name!


Fri May 31, 2013 11:43 am WWW
Gregarious
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:16 am
Posts: 870
Wikipedia User: Volunteer Marek
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
lilburne wrote:


God bless that Sandstein.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:35 pm
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Posts: 5451
Location: San Diego
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Volunteer Marek wrote:
lilburne wrote:


God bless that Sandstein.

Sandstein has become the Sarlacc Pit (T-H-L) of Wikipedia.

_________________
♪♫ Isn't it enough to know I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ♫♪


Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:51 pm
Online
Witchsmeller Pursuivant
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Posts: 6576
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Zoloft wrote:
Volunteer Marek wrote:
lilburne wrote:


God bless that Sandstein.

Sandstein has become the Sarlacc Pit (T-H-L) of Wikipedia.

Who gets to be Jabba then?


Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:00 pm
Habitué
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 2265
Wikipedia User: Bali ultimate
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
I'm sure Mr. Draiman will be much more careful about self-disclosure in his next Wikipedia incarnation.


Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:42 pm
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 7
Location: Isfana, Kyrgyzstan
Wikipedia User: Nataev
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Hi guys! I came across this discussion the other day and decided to chip in.

1. "So, how the heck can a user "dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to Central Asia" become "indefinitely banned from making any edits about Amiram Goldblum (T-H-L) everywhere on Wikipedia"?" - I got involved in the article about Amiram Goldblum after a Jewish editor (I think it's Goldblum himself) posted on my talk page (see this: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =552873013). Otherwise I have no interest in him whatsoever.

2 "...and having his appeal declined, too." - The topic ban has been lifted: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =576763060.

3. I wrote the whole article about the Uzbek Gymnasium No. 4 named after Usmon Matkarimov, yes. The reason is that nobody else is willing to write about this school. An IP-user has deleted the section about notable alumni of the school and I'm perfectly fine with it (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =566587748).

4. "Central European University in Budapest; that was were Plaut was (and a Runtshit-sock)." - correct. I met Prof. Plaut at CEU. We still keep in touch. As for your claim that Prof. Plaut might be the long-time vandal Runtshit, I don't think it's true. I don't think he icould have possibly created thousands of fake accounts just to vandalize Wikipedia. IMHO It's just physically impossible!

5. "Young Nodir Ataev even publishes an article with Steven Plaut: Central Asia: Lessons for the Middle East, which argues for transfer (read: ethnic cleansing) of minorities." - Not true. I'm an ethnic Uzbek myself. Why would I argue for the cleansing of my own people? You misinterpreted the article. However, I admit that the article is not a very good one.

6 "Apparently it is a short way from "most outstanding student" to "most outstanding fool." - Well, like I said your interpretation of our article is wrong. We just noted that since most of the Slavs have left Central Asia, we haven't had any conflicts with them. As for the "out-migration of “Palestinians” and their relocation into the predominantly Arab ethnic “homelands,”" I don't quite agree with this myself. I don't think there are any easy solutions for such conflicts.


Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:42 pm
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 8443
Location: yes
Wikipedia User: EricBarbour
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Welcome, Nataev!

You're watching the Uzbek Wikipedia? It would be great if you could summarize how it operates, with some of the major administrators and article writers mentioned, and what they do.

We still don't know how to deal with Runtshit. No one has a solid clue who he really is, just plenty of educated guesses.

_________________
Image


Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:22 pm WWW
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 7
Location: Isfana, Kyrgyzstan
Wikipedia User: Nataev
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Thanks, EricBarbour! Actually I'm an administrator on the Uzbek Wikipedia. So, I know a lot about how it operates. Do you want me answer your questions here? Or should I start a new topic? I'm new to Wikipediocracy and don't know much about how it works.

As for Runtshit, I'm not even sure if it's only one person. Maybe it is an umbrella login for a group of vandals.


Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:10 am
Global Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Posts: 8443
Location: yes
Wikipedia User: EricBarbour
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Nataev wrote:
Do you want me answer your questions here? Or should I start a new topic? I'm new to Wikipediocracy and don't know much about how it works.

A new topic, under Governance, would be okay, thanks.

_________________
Image


Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:25 am WWW
Contributor
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:41 am
Posts: 7
Location: Isfana, Kyrgyzstan
Wikipedia User: Nataev
Unread post Re: More on anonymity, promotion and attack...
Have started a new discussion.


Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:44 am
 [ 40 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.