How to steal other people's work

[thekohser]

Lesson 1: Rhodes 19 (T-H-L)

Step 1: Find someone like Fred Brehob, an historian of the Rhodes 19 class sailing vessel, and vice president of the Rhodes 19 Class Association.

Step 2: Find a luxuriously detailed history of the Rhodes 19, written by Fred Brehob.

Step 3: Copy Fred Brehob's history -- verbatim -- into Wikipedia in April 2008. Feel free to "credit" Brehob by prefacing the copy with "Class History by Fred Brehob:"; but pay no attention to the fact that you've now released that content under a copyleft license.

Step 4: A few minutes later, remove the credit to Fred Brehob from the Wikipedia article, thus solidifying this as plagiarism.

Step 5: Continue editing Wikipedia for another 5 years and 12,000 edits, without anyone ever questioning how this particular text is completely unreferenced, doesn't read like a Wikipedia article, and never get accused or warned about the obvious plagiarism. (Who knows what else you're plagiarizing? Who cares?!)


(Note... people think that I "hunt" for this stuff, but the only reason I came across this article was doing some advance research about a possible sailboat rental in Maine this summer, and I wanted to learn more about the history of the Rhodes 19. Turns out, I should have just gone to Fred Brehob's site, not Wikipedia's, since Fred deserves all the credit, and not that conservative, capitalist, Fighting Irish douche, Kevin Murray (T-C-L).)

[jd turk]

Oh, crap.

That certainly does appear to be exactly how that went down, doesn't it?

[Randy from Boise]

I've stubbed out the copy-vio article and warned the person responsible.

Here's the link for the copy-vio version of the piece which Greg mentions above: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =508037309


RfB

[Alison]

I should have just gone to Fred Brehob's site, not Wikipedia's, since Fred deserves all the credit, and not that conservative, capitalist, Fighting Irish douche, Kevin Murray (T-C-L).)

Fighting American douche.

"This user is a citizen of the United States of America."
"This user is a member of WikiProject Irish Republicanism."

[greybeard]

Fighting Irish douche, Kevin Murray (T-C-L).)

Fighting American douche.

Och, but surely there's no one more Irish than the rabid Irish-German-American pseudo-Fenian who's probably never set foot in Ireland!

However, in Greg's defense, I think the "Fighting Irish" he was referring to was Notre Dame's football team, not yer countrymen: "This person attends or attended the University of Notre Dame."

[Anroth]

I have to go Ireland in a few months. I have been watching the DVD 'When Ireland Starved' to get myself in the right mindset....

[Alison]

I have to go Ireland in a few months. I have been watching the DVD 'When Ireland Starved' to get myself in the right mindset....

Ah here - you can do better than that!

I'm back home myself in a few weeks, all going well!

[Cedric]

Lesson 1: Rhodes 19 (T-H-L)

Step 1: Find someone like Fred Brehob, an historian of the Rhodes 19 class sailing vessel, and vice president of the Rhodes 19 Class Association.

Step 2: Find a luxuriously detailed history of the Rhodes 19, written by Fred Brehob.

Step 3: Copy Fred Brehob's history -- verbatim -- into Wikipedia in April 2008. Feel free to "credit" Brehob by prefacing the copy with "Class History by Fred Brehob:"; but pay no attention to the fact that you've now released that content under a copyleft license.

Step 4: A few minutes later, remove the credit to Fred Brehob from the Wikipedia article, thus solidifying this as plagiarism.

Step 5: Continue editing Wikipedia for another 5 years and 12,000 edits, without anyone ever questioning how this particular text is completely unreferenced, doesn't read like a Wikipedia article, and never get accused or warned about the obvious plagiarism. (Who knows what else you're plagiarizing? Who cares?!)


(Note... people think that I "hunt" for this stuff, but the only reason I came across this article was doing some advance research about a possible sailboat rental in Maine this summer, and I wanted to learn more about the history of the Rhodes 19. Turns out, I should have just gone to Fred Brehob's site, not Wikipedia's, since Fred deserves all the credit, and not that conservative, capitalist, Fighting Irish douche, Kevin Murray (T-C-L).)

No argument here as to Murray's douchetasticness. But what has conservatism or capitalism got to do with blatant theft?

Ummmm, wait a minute . . . .

[thekohser]

However, in Greg's defense, I think the "Fighting Irish" he was referring to was Notre Dame's football team, not yer countrymen: "This person attends or attended the University of Notre Dame."

Correct.

And the guy shows off his racing yacht and his classic Porsche on his Wikipedia user page. Typical Notre Dame "privileged" type.

[Poetlister]

And the guy shows off his racing yacht and his classic Porsche on his Wikipedia user page. Typical Notre Dame "privileged" type.

It's very American. I would never dream of boasting about my racing yacht, my classic Porsche or even my house in Regent's Park on Wikipedia.

[Anroth]

Well obviously not. Because I, I mean other people would know that you have an nice house to break into, a car to get away in, and a yacht to sail to Aruba.

[eppur si muove]

And the guy shows off his racing yacht and his classic Porsche on his Wikipedia user page. Typical Notre Dame "privileged" type.

It's very American. I would never dream of boasting about my racing yacht, my classic Porsche or even my house in Regent's Park on Wikipedia.

The first house I can remember living in was in Regent's Park. Not actually overlooking the Park but in the row behind backing onto Albany Street. It has been occupied now by someone with the same first and last name as my father which caused confusion when he tried booking tickets from the Royal Festival Hall.

[thekohser]

I've stubbed out the copy-vio article and warned the person responsible.

I hope you're not finished.

This content, he copied from this location, without any attribution. That's not compliant with the copyleft license's attribution clause, is it?

I hardly think that Mr. Murray wrote this all by himself. Nor this.


Edit: He's the spittin' image of Bill Shatner! Anyway, Murray clearly does a lot of charity fundraising work for children's groups, so he's probably just a nice, rich guy who happens to be very proud of his most-prized possessions, who (in 2008) lacked regard for respect of copyright. I'm sorry that I called him a "douche" -- completely unfair.

[Moonage Daydream]

Isn't it possible that Fred was ok with having it pasted into Wikipedia? Perhaps he knew all about it?

[Michaeldsuarez]

@Thekohser: This isn't entirely Kevin Murray's fault. You overlooked something very important: the talk page:

This article was merged into the article about the designer Phillip Rhodes, but the section grew too long and dominated the biography page. I've pasted it back here, but it needs serious cleanup to meet WP standards. --[[User:Kevin Murray|Kevin Murray]] ([[User talk:Kevin Murray|talk]]) 07:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

An anon added that text to the "Philip Rhodes" article in September 2007. In April 2008, Kevin Murray moved the text to the "Rhodes 19" page.

[Michaeldsuarez]

I've stubbed out the copy-vio article and warned the person responsible.

Here's the link for the copy-vio version of the piece which Greg mentions above: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =508037309


RfB

Your message is pretty harsh. Can you please tone it down? As I've stated above, this isn't entirely Kevin Murray's fault. As the thekohser noted above, Kevin Murray has (or had) a habit of moving text from one enwiki article to another without providing a note about where the text was moved from in the edit summary. Perhaps you should criticize that habit instead.

[Peter Damian]

However, in Greg's defense, I think the "Fighting Irish" he was referring to was Notre Dame's football team, not yer countrymen: "This person attends or attended the University of Notre Dame."

Correct.

And the guy shows off his racing yacht and his classic Porsche on his Wikipedia user page. Typical Notre Dame "privileged" type.

Catalina 380 not really a racing yacht. Of course you can race with any yacht, but AFAICT Catalina is a weekend and vacation cruiser, suitable for a small family (if they can still stand each other after a few days on such a boat).

Sorry to completely derail thread

[dogbiscuit]

@Thekohser: This isn't entirely Kevin Murray's fault. You overlooked something very important: the talk page:

This article was merged into the article about the designer Phillip Rhodes, but the section grew too long and dominated the biography page. I've pasted it back here, but it needs serious cleanup to meet WP standards. --[[User:Kevin Murray|Kevin Murray]] ([[User talk:Kevin Murray|talk]]) 07:41, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

An anon added that text to the "Philip Rhodes" article in September 2007. In April 2008, Kevin Murray moved the text to the "Rhodes 19" page.

So instead of Flikr washing we have WikiWashing.

[DanMurphy]

Fighting Irish douche, Kevin Murray (T-C-L).)

Fighting American douche.

Och, but surely there's no one more Irish than the rabid Irish-German-American pseudo-Fenian who's probably never set foot in Ireland!

However, in Greg's defense, I think the "Fighting Irish" he was referring to was Notre Dame's football team, not yer countrymen: "This person attends or attended the University of Notre Dame."

Yes:

[thekohser]

Catalina 380 not really a racing yacht. Of course you can race with any yacht, but AFAICT Catalina is a weekend and vacation cruiser, suitable for a small family (if they can still stand each other after a few days on such a boat).

Murray does occasionally enter his in races, and his boat is rated (handicapping system) for racing purposes.

[Randy from Boise]

I've stubbed out the copy-vio article and warned the person responsible.

I hope you're not finished.

This content, he copied from this location, without any attribution. That's not compliant with the copyleft license's attribution clause, is it?

I hardly think that Mr. Murray wrote this all by himself. Nor this.


Edit: He's the spittin' image of Bill Shatner! Anyway, Murray clearly does a lot of charity fundraising work for children's groups, so he's probably just a nice, rich guy who happens to be very proud of his most-prized possessions, who (in 2008) lacked regard for respect of copyright. I'm sorry that I called him a "douche" -- completely unfair.

It takes 5 examples of copyvio to open a case at Contributor Copyright Investigations, which may or may not be resolved in ten years' time or so...

RfB

ADDENDA: The first one, moving text from one WP article to another, is a technical violation of the license but seems the copyvio equivalent of jaywalking on a deserted street...

I'm trying to figure out the gun piece. All the Wiki mirrors make it tricky.

[The Devil's Advocate]

I've stubbed out the copy-vio article and warned the person responsible.

I hope you're not finished.

This content, he copied from this location, without any attribution. That's not compliant with the copyleft license's attribution clause, is it?

I hardly think that Mr. Murray wrote this all by himself. Nor this.


Edit: He's the spittin' image of Bill Shatner! Anyway, Murray clearly does a lot of charity fundraising work for children's groups, so he's probably just a nice, rich guy who happens to be very proud of his most-prized possessions, who (in 2008) lacked regard for respect of copyright. I'm sorry that I called him a "douche" -- completely unfair.

The French-Thai War stuff was copied from the main article on the conflict in question.

[greybeard]

Fighting Irish douche, Kevin Murray (T-C-L).)

Fighting American douche.

Och, but surely there's no one more Irish than the rabid Irish-German-American pseudo-Fenian who's probably never set foot in Ireland! However, in Greg's defense, I think the "Fighting Irish" he was referring to was Notre Dame's football team, not yer countrymen: "This person attends or attended the University of Notre Dame."

Yes:

Ah yes, the persistent stereotyping of a people as drunk, belligerent, maudlin, and wee. Not racist at all, since it is now dominantly done by those claiming to be that "race". I can hardly wait until Howard University styles its sports team as the "Fightin' Pickaninnies" or some such.

[DanMurphy]

Fighting Irish douche, Kevin Murray (T-C-L).)

Fighting American douche.

Och, but surely there's no one more Irish than the rabid Irish-German-American pseudo-Fenian who's probably never set foot in Ireland! However, in Greg's defense, I think the "Fighting Irish" he was referring to was Notre Dame's football team, not yer countrymen: "This person attends or attended the University of Notre Dame."

Yes:

Ah yes, the persistent stereotyping of a people as drunk, belligerent, maudlin, and wee. Not racist at all, since it is now dominantly done by those claiming to be that "race". I can hardly wait until Howard University styles its sports team as the "Fightin' Pickaninnies" or some such.

Don't ever come to Boston on St. Patrick's day. The US professional Paddys make my skin crawl.

[Randy from Boise]

I've stubbed out the copy-vio article and warned the person responsible.

Here's the link for the copy-vio version of the piece which Greg mentions above: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =508037309


RfB

Your message is pretty harsh. Can you please tone it down?

Yep.

Nope.

If he gets in touch with me, on wiki or off, we'll talk and I'll apologize if appropriate to do so. But dumping in a huge copyvio like that is still dumping in a huge copyvio.

RfB

ADDENDA: I thought up an analogy. Say that somebody found a TV set in its original packaging in the bushes next to a loading dock.One would still be guilty of dealing in stolen property if one took it to a pawn shop and sold it for $100, even if one didn't commit the original theft. Did they know it was stolen? Should they have known? That's where the mitigation comes in. But selling found stolen property is little better than stealing property and selling it.

[mac]

Ah yes, the persistent stereotyping of a people as drunk, belligerent, maudlin, and wee. Not racist at all, since it is now dominantly done by those claiming to be that "race". I can hardly wait until Howard University styles its sports team as the "Fightin' Pickaninnies" or some such.

Don't ever come to Boston on St. Patrick's day. The US professional Paddys make my skin crawl.

I don't believe this about American Irish people. This is more likely an excuse to drink, and the stereotype Greybeard describes sounds more like a football/sports thing, like the Washington Redskins for example.

Sorry for the off-topic post.

[Michaeldsuarez]

Yep.

Nope.

If he gets in touch with me, on wiki or off, we'll talk and I'll apologize if appropriate to do so. But dumping in a huge copyvio like that is still dumping in a huge copyvio.

RfB

ADDENDA: I thought up an analogy. Say that somebody found a TV set in its original packaging in the bushes next to a loading dock.One would still be guilty of dealing in stolen property if one took it to a pawn shop and sold it for $100, even if one didn't commit the original theft. Did they know it was stolen? Should they have known? That's where the mitigation comes in. But selling found stolen property is little better than stealing property and selling it.

Can't you at least explain to Mr. Murray what happened with the anon and the moving of the text? April 2008 was a long time ago. You're not making yourself easy to work with. Shouldn't you behave more diplomatically on a collaborative project?

[jd turk]

Your message is pretty harsh. Can you please tone it down? As I've stated above, this isn't entirely Kevin Murray's fault. As the thekohser noted above, Kevin Murray has (or had) a habit of moving text from one enwiki article to another without providing a note about where the text was moved from in the edit summary. Perhaps you should criticize that habit instead.

It seems to be exactly Kevin Murray's fault, actually. If he's moving around large blocks of text that are obviously not written for an encyclopedia, then he's stripping out the writing credits embedded in the text, he seems to have been either aware of what he was doing, or apathetic to copyright violations.

Moving the work of other (anonymous IP) editors is validating that work, in a way. He's at least an accomplice at that point.

[Randy from Boise]

Yep.

Nope.

If he gets in touch with me, on wiki or off, we'll talk and I'll apologize if appropriate to do so. But dumping in a huge copyvio like that is still dumping in a huge copyvio.

RfB

ADDENDA: I thought up an analogy. Say that somebody found a TV set in its original packaging in the bushes next to a loading dock.One would still be guilty of dealing in stolen property if one took it to a pawn shop and sold it for $100, even if one didn't commit the original theft. Did they know it was stolen? Should they have known? That's where the mitigation comes in. But selling found stolen property is little better than stealing property and selling it.

Can't you at least explain to Mr. Murray what happened with the anon and the moving of the text? April 2008 was a long time ago. You're not making yourself easy to work with. Shouldn't you behave more diplomatically on a collaborative project?

I'm okay with where it sits. Big copy-pastes aren't to be fucked around with, it's a very serious party-foul. If he needs clarification, I'm not hard to find. I'm not running his underwear up the CopyVio flagpole on wiki... The bad edit got dusted and brought to his attention forcefully. The end.

tim

[thekohser]

Step 1: Find someone like Fred Brehob, an historian of the Rhodes 19 class sailing vessel, and vice president of the Rhodes 19 Class Association.

Step 2: Find a luxuriously detailed history of the Rhodes 19, written by Fred Brehob.

Fred Brehob returned my e-mail with a phone call. Unfortunately, it went to my voicemail -- I say "unfortunately", because he sounds like a funny character. He says that I have "fine taste" in boats! He's not too upset about the plagiarism that took place on Wikipedia, because "there are more important things to get agitated about" and he "doesn't really have time to get embroiled in copyright things" because, as he says, "I'm 83 years old, so I really don't have much time left to get embroiled". He's happy that people are reading about the Rhodes class.

Funny comment about Wikipedia:

I had no idea anybody was editing all this. I saw that my article got copied there, and it had my name on it, but then my name came off of it. I really don't know what pleasure anyone would get out of multiple editings of that piece.

What a hoot!

[Vigilant]

I had no idea anybody was editing all this. I saw that my article got copied there, and it had my name on it, but then my name came off of it. I really don't know what pleasure anyone would get out of multiple editings of that piece.

That could be said for legions of articles that are edit warred over all the damn time.

[thekohser]

Is this a copyright violation, since 2008?

Note, the article Gunther Stent (T-C-L) was created by DGG (T-C-L), who was a doctoral student of Stent's. Why isn't there a Template:COI (T-H-L) on the Stent article?

(Larry Sanger muttered in a bit of agony when I mentioned DGG to him.)

[Randy from Boise]

Is this a copyright violation, since 2008?

Note, the article Gunther Stent (T-C-L) was created by DGG (T-C-L), who was a doctoral student of Stent's. Why isn't there a Template:COI (T-H-L) on the Stent article?

(Larry Sanger muttered in a bit of agony when I mentioned DGG to him.)

David G. is good folks.

RfB

[enwikibadscience]

Is this a copyright violation, since 2008?

Note, the article Gunther Stent (T-C-L) was created by DGG (T-C-L), who was a doctoral student of Stent's. Why isn't there a Template:COI (T-H-L) on the Stent article?

(Larry Sanger muttered in a bit of agony when I mentioned DGG to him.)

David G. is good folks.

RfB

I assume David G is DGG. He appears uniquely able to think for himself, and the thinking appears to be intelligent. An odd character for a Wikipedia editor.

[thekohser]

David G. is good folks.

Your opinion of him would explain why I'm finding him to be a bitter old prick.

[Hex]

Is this a copyright violation, since 2008?

Yes. Zap.

[EricBarbour]

Is this a copyright violation, since 2008?

Yes. Zap.

Please make sure it's documented elsewhere--post it on a noticeboard or his talkpage.

[Saffron Blaze]

The vitriol many of you folks throw at people sure does detract from whatever good you do. Seems you are just as intent on attacking the person as the policy. I can assure you it is not witty and looks rather more like ego masturbation.

[Randy from Boise]

Is this a copyright violation, since 2008?

Note, the article Gunther Stent (T-C-L) was created by DGG (T-C-L), who was a doctoral student of Stent's. Why isn't there a Template:COI (T-H-L) on the Stent article?

(Larry Sanger muttered in a bit of agony when I mentioned DGG to him.)

David G. is good folks.

RfB

I assume David G is DGG. He appears uniquely able to think for himself, and the thinking appears to be intelligent. An odd character for a Wikipedia editor.

His user page will get you up to speed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG

David is salt of the earth. Whatever Wikipedia's problems are, he is not one of them.

RfB

[enwikibadscience]

Is this a copyright violation, since 2008?

Note, the article Gunther Stent (T-C-L) was created by DGG (T-C-L), who was a doctoral student of Stent's. Why isn't there a Template:COI (T-H-L) on the Stent article?

(Larry Sanger muttered in a bit of agony when I mentioned DGG to him.)

David G. is good folks.

RfB

I assume David G is DGG. He appears uniquely able to think for himself, and the thinking appears to be intelligent. An odd character for a Wikipedia editor.

His user page will get you up to speed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG

David is salt of the earth. Whatever Wikipedia's problems are, he is not one of them.

RfB

I come across a lot of common sense edits by him. I saw the sour comment about him, but I am not too concerned. Wikipedia is not viable as is. It is a hostile place, where social, and now political, place first over writing an encyclopedia. There are a number of people who do appear to be there competently writing an encyclopedia. This person strikes me as one of them.

[Hex]

Is this a copyright violation, since 2008?

Yes. Zap.

Please make sure it's documented elsewhere--post it on a noticeboard or his talkpage.

It was added by a random anonymous, not DGG.

[thekohser]

The vitriol many of you folks throw at people sure does detract from whatever good you do. Seems you are just as intent on attacking the person as the policy. I can assure you it is not witty and looks rather more like ego masturbation.

I don't know why he characterized a selection of my company's customers as "advertising", other than he takes a crotchety attitude toward commercial information on Wikipedia.

The arrogance drips from his User page:

Wikipedia is always dealing with paid spammers, people who earn their living by putting links to their own sites into web pages elsewhere. It is a large and well paid profession, and their activities are a serious danger to the integrity of any good site like ours. We have our methods for detecting and dealing with them. The most effective way is to block access to their web sites, by preventing links to known spam sites from appearing in Wikipedia. This is a partially automated procedure, carried out at several different levels, both at enWP and cooperatively by the different WPs. The other method is denying access to known spammers; this is a never-ending battle, for they just switch to a new account. Detecting these accounts, which we call "sock-puppets", puppets made by stuffing one sock into another as done to amuse young children, needs to be very fast and very stringent to be effective. This has led to a practice of blocking on any reasonable suspicion. Alas, anyone who deals with this much of the time will soon become over-suspicious, baning well-intentioned people and blocking good links. It's an inevitable side-effect of policing work.
This applies equally to commercial and non-commercial sites. I find the commercial ones easier to deal with, because they tend to add even larger numbers, and get caught all the sooner. And the non-commercial spammers have a narrower line between them and the well-intentioned people.
As for paid editing, I think it is generally wrong, because it interferes with the normal way people work here, and interferes with the good faith we extend to all users. The effects of such editing as we know about has usually been very poor articles. That need not be the case, but so far almost nobody who understand Wikipedia well enough to write good articles has been willing to do it for money.

[Saffron Blaze]

I am not sure why either, but I am equally not sure why that matters. Unless of course this is a case of douche unto others as they douche onto you. However I think that would just be proving my point.

[Peter Damian]

[...]
David is salt of the earth. Whatever Wikipedia's problems are, he is not one of them.

RfB

Sadly, he is one of the problems. In my experience, he turns a blind eye to any abuse of the system if committed by trusted insiders. Free culture extremist, 'inclusionist' etc. I put him side by side with Ira Matetsky as one of those apparently sane and rational Wikipedians who the insiders can wheel out as proof of sanity and rationality. "Useful idiots".

[EricBarbour]

Sadly, he is one of the problems. In my experience, he turns a blind eye to any abuse of the system if committed by trusted insiders. Free culture extremist, 'inclusionist' etc. I put him side by side with Ira Matetsky as one of those apparently sane and rational Wikipedians who the insiders can wheel out as proof of sanity and rationality. "Useful idiots".

Agreed. One can talk to Goodman face to face, as a couple of WP critics have, and he seems like an intelligent and rational person. But there are certain triggers that send him into a universe of bizarre paranoia and judgmentalist anger, and it would be difficult to figure out what those triggers are -- if we didn't have his endless rants on Wikipedia to examine. There's no better term for him than "useful idiot", except possibly "cult member" or "denialist".

[Cedric]

Sadly, he is one of the problems. In my experience, he turns a blind eye to any abuse of the system if committed by trusted insiders. Free culture extremist, 'inclusionist' etc. I put him side by side with Ira Matetsky as one of those apparently sane and rational Wikipedians who the insiders can wheel out as proof of sanity and rationality. "Useful idiots".

Agreed. One can talk to Goodman face to face, as a couple of WP critics have, and he seems like an intelligent and rational person. But there are certain triggers that send him into a universe of bizarre paranoia and judgmentalist anger, and it would be difficult to figure out what those triggers are -- if we didn't have his endless rants on Wikipedia to examine. There's no better term for him than "useful idiot", except possibly "cult member" or "denialist".

I'll take "denialist" for 500, Alex . . .

[Saffron Blaze]

I'll take the last three posts as a rebuttal of my position.

[HRIP7]

Is this a copyright violation, since 2008?

Note, the article Gunther Stent (T-C-L) was created by DGG (T-C-L), who was a doctoral student of Stent's. Why isn't there a Template:COI (T-H-L) on the Stent article?

(Larry Sanger muttered in a bit of agony when I mentioned DGG to him.)

David G. is good folks.

RfB

I assume David G is DGG. He appears uniquely able to think for himself, and the thinking appears to be intelligent. An odd character for a Wikipedia editor.

His user page will get you up to speed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DGG

David is salt of the earth. Whatever Wikipedia's problems are, he is not one of them.

RfB

I consider DGG a man of integrity – one of the few enthusiastic Wikipedians I would say that about. And in my experience, he has no problem going up against established insiders. I've seen him do it, and effectively so.

I am not saying DGG is perfect. I wouldn't say that about anyone. He may well have blind spots, like everyone, including me. The Comcast issue may well be one of them. But I like him and respect him, even when he says stuff I violently disagree with. So there.