The grand outing of Wikipedia Arbitrator 28bytes
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The Devil's Advocate
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Except, this raises a good point. In the recent blocking and unblocking actions we have: - Blocking Demiurge for a month for comments about Wikipediocracy.
- Blocking Gwickwire for a week for comments about Wikipediocracy.
- Reversing a block of Kiefer that was for comments made on Wikipediocracy.
- Blocking Mathsci for edit-warring on the article for Wikipediocracy, where the edit-warring was him removing a link to the site that contained a post outing him.
When you throw that in with the AfD Russavia mentioned and the Earl AfD then, well, it doesn't matter one lick if he was right every time, and I do not believe that to be the case anyway. This sort of admin activity, at the very least, creates a serious appearance of impropriety. I have not looked to see if he personally commented on all of those cases before taking action, but that he took action so regularly on matters concerning Wikipediocracy in a manner that consistently favored Wikipediocracy is bad enough in itself. The situation with Mathsci is particularly bad from appearances. Most of those pushing to keep the link to WO were members of WO and those reverting Mathsci to restore the link to WO all appear to have been members as well. For a member of WO, who was not publicly known to be a member, to have blocked Mathsci for the above is very bad. It does not matter what anyone here believes about that, because the perception of that situation was bad enough and is made all the worse by the fact that a covert participant on this forum, who was a well-respected and high-level admin on Wikipedia, blocked Mathsci for undoing what he believed was harassment directed at him by this site. It makes Wnt's rantings about WO almost seem sane and that is not a good thing.
_________________"For those who stubbornly seek freedom around the world, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination." - Noam Chomsky
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:10 am |
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Vigilant
Witchsmeller Pursuivant
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I recommend an admin revoke talk page access.
WP:DENY.
I'd die of shame if Russavia were complementing me in the same sentence as DemiUrge1000.
_________________ Whiners!
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:34 am |
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lilburne
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Wnt's ranting is always a good thing. Not only do we need more of it, but more of you in his camp too.
_________________ They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:01 am |
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Jim
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So that's you, Demiurge, Wnt, Russavia and Mathsci? Only 5 so far, but I'm sure you can sign up another 6 at least, which should give you enough for a dream team at most sports. Try to get it televised - I have a choice of channels then...
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:50 am |
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neved
Gregarious
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:22 pm Posts: 846 Location: Here, for whatever reason, is the world. And here it stays. With me on it.
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I agree. Even I knew nothing about 28bytes himself, it would have been enough just to look at an angry, dirty mob who is attacking him: Jehochman, Russavia,demiurge1000, fae. Do I need another proof that starting this topic was a very bad idea?
_________________Albert Einstein: "I fear the day technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots." That day has already arrived
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:29 pm |
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neved
Gregarious
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:22 pm Posts: 846 Location: Here, for whatever reason, is the world. And here it stays. With me on it.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... ur_comment |  |  |  | Quote: Removed your comment
I read, and then removed your comment about me. It's not relevant to the case. If you agree to leave it out, we are done. If you want to restore it, I'll go hassle the clerks to do something about it. Jehochman Talk 01:34, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
Hey, read my lips: FUCK YOU. And keep off my page, I don't want to see you here again. Carrite (talk) 01:42, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
Well that's very civil. I shall not post here again. Bye. Jehochman Talk 02:22, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
I'll speak about you as I wish, just not there. Where I've never been nor have any interest in going, for what it's worth... Carrite (talk) 03:00, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
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BTW the comment that Jehochman wants to be removed so desperately is this one: Jehochman calls it "blatant personal attack"Carrite, you were wrong to post this comment. Of course Jehochman is not a funny guy. He's a very, very stupid guy, and as we all know "There is no sin except stupidity"
_________________Albert Einstein: "I fear the day technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots." That day has already arrived
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:29 pm |
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The Devil's Advocate
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All right you three, how do you think things would have played out with any of the above actions if 28bytes had been known to be Mason at the time? I do not think you have to put much thought into it to realize most of those actions would have generated serious ill will towards 28 and WO. Most likely he would not have taken all those actions were his ties to WO public knowledge, mainly because just one of those actions would have caused enough controversy to compel him to not perform any of the others. Had he performed all the above actions while his WO identity was known then he likely would have been subject to an arbitration case where he would be lucky to avoid desysopping. I imagine that Mathsci, who would undoubtedly have realized the significance once 28bytes was revealed as Mason, is already filing this away as "further" evidence of "harassment" from WO.
_________________"For those who stubbornly seek freedom around the world, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination." - Noam Chomsky
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:44 pm |
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Hex
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_________________ My question, to this esteemed Wiki community, is this: Do you think that a Wiki could successfully generate a useful encyclopedia? -- JimboWales Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:46 pm |
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Mason
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It would look bad if I had blocked Mathsci. But I didn't. I unblocked him. When I blocked or unblocked someone, it was because (1) I believed it was the right thing to do and (2) there was a policy basis for doing so. I have never toed the WO line. Search the archives here, you will find an equal number of cases where WO regulars were angry at me taking "anti-WO" admin actions. My mistake (well, one of them, anyway) was in adding running commentary here to my thought process about taking such admin actions there. Elonka (and Russavia) are right to point that out, and if I had that to do over again, I wouldn't.
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:56 pm |
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enwikibadscience
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Do you think he could understand himself if he had to read that six months later? 
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:52 pm |
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Vigilant
Witchsmeller Pursuivant
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Only if he were just as drunk as he is today. Sort of like Dwarvish Runes.
_________________ Whiners!
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:54 pm |
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lilburne
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_________________ They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined
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| Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:43 pm |
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Randy from Boise
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That's what I write like when I'm stoned. Then in the morning it's all "what the fuck was that?" and it all goes away. Just sayin'... RfB
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Zoloft
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Good old Tryptofish muses philosophically on his talk page: |  |  |  | Code: To Wikipediocracy
First, please let me make it clear that, unlike many other people, I do not regard you as a monolith. Like Wikipedia, you are a collection of people, and not everyone is the same. It's obvious to me that there are plenty of thoughtful, intelligent people there, who sincerely want to make Wikipedia a better place. Indeed, I recently saw someone there tell other users not to hate on anybody, that no one had died. That was a very good thing to say, and I respect it.
Those of you who are trying to accomplish some good might want to give some thought to the graphic interface of your discussion sections. The heavy use of avatars and other graphics tends to get in the way of intelligent conversation. It reminds me of Something Awful.
But: at the same time, some users at that site are mostly there for the trolling. And some of you seem to have taken a recent interest in me. Thanks! The page view statistics on my talk page here have soared! Some of you expressed an interest in finding out who I am, so you can out me. (I'm looking directly at you, Randy from Boise.) Go for it. I dare you. You know you want to. (Or you could just take a deep breath and calm down, up to you.) Look for the bread crumbs (here??). I'll be watching, with popcorn. (Well, actually, I won't be watching that closely, because I don't really care, but I'll look in from time to time, for the laughs.) While you're at it, take a look at something I said earlier in my editing experience, when my fan club really was at Something Awful. Especially the last paragraph. --Tryptofish (talk) 1:52 pm, Today (UTC−8) |  |  |  |  |
_________________ ♪♫ Isn't it enough to know I ruined a pony making a gift for you? ♫♪
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:55 am |
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The Devil's Advocate
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 |  |  |  | Mason wrote: It would look bad if I had blocked Mathsci. But I didn't. I unblocked him. When I blocked or unblocked someone, it was because (1) I believed it was the right thing to do and (2) there was a policy basis for doing so. I have never toed the WO line. Search the archives here, you will find an equal number of cases where WO regulars were angry at me taking "anti-WO" admin actions. My mistake (well, one of them, anyway) was in adding running commentary here to my thought process about taking such admin actions there. Elonka (and Russavia) are right to point that out, and if I had that to do over again, I wouldn't. |  |  |  |  |
All right, I misread the logs there, but that only lessens the cause for concern. For instance, looking back at the Demiurge block, people actually suggested you were involved because of comments you exchanged with him on-wiki. At the time, I argued that this was not sufficient reason to call you involved. Suffice to say, I was wrong to suggest that as well since you clearly were involved and I find it quite absurd of you to suggest that there is no policy issue with you being a regular poster here, concealing that connection, and then taking action as an admin on Wikipedia against people who are criticizing WO.
_________________"For those who stubbornly seek freedom around the world, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination." - Noam Chomsky
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:25 am |
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The Joy
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 |  |  |  | Zoloft wrote: Good old Tryptofish muses philosophically on his talk page: |  |  |  | Code: To Wikipediocracy
First, please let me make it clear that, unlike many other people, I do not regard you as a monolith. Like Wikipedia, you are a collection of people, and not everyone is the same. It's obvious to me that there are plenty of thoughtful, intelligent people there, who sincerely want to make Wikipedia a better place. Indeed, I recently saw someone there tell other users not to hate on anybody, that no one had died. That was a very good thing to say, and I respect it.
Those of you who are trying to accomplish some good might want to give some thought to the graphic interface of your discussion sections. The heavy use of avatars and other graphics tends to get in the way of intelligent conversation. It reminds me of Something Awful.
But: at the same time, some users at that site are mostly there for the trolling. And some of you seem to have taken a recent interest in me. Thanks! The page view statistics on my talk page here have soared! Some of you expressed an interest in finding out who I am, so you can out me. (I'm looking directly at you, Randy from Boise.) Go for it. I dare you. You know you want to. (Or you could just take a deep breath and calm down, up to you.) Look for the bread crumbs (here??). I'll be watching, with popcorn. (Well, actually, I won't be watching that closely, because I don't really care, but I'll look in from time to time, for the laughs.) While you're at it, take a look at something I said earlier in my editing experience, when my fan club really was at Something Awful. Especially the last paragraph. --Tryptofish (talk) 1:52 pm, Today (UTC−8) |  |  |  |  |
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_________________ "In the long run, volunteers are the most expensive workers you'll ever have." -Red Green
"Now my tears are fallin' like pigs from a big ol' tree and this storm within my spleen is drownin' me!" -Pinky and the Brain
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:28 am |
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Midsize Jake
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 |  |  |  | Some dude on Wikipedia wrote: ...And some of you seem to have taken a recent interest in me. Thanks! The page view statistics on my talk page here have soared! Some of you expressed an interest in finding out who I am, so you can out me. (I'm looking directly at you, Randy from Boise.) Go for it. I dare you. You know you want to. (Or you could just take a deep breath and calm down, up to you.) Look for the bread crumbs (here??). I'll be watching, with popcorn. (Well, actually, I won't be watching that closely, because I don't really care, but I'll look in from time to time, for the laughs.) While you're at it, take a look at something I said earlier in my editing experience, when my fan club really was at Something Awful. Especially the last paragraph. |  |  |  |  |
They never seem to realize how incredibly narcissistic they are, do they?
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:45 am |
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Vigilant
Witchsmeller Pursuivant
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 |  |  |  | Midsize Jake wrote:  |  |  |  | Some dude on Wikipedia wrote: ...And some of you seem to have taken a recent interest in me. Thanks! The page view statistics on my talk page here have soared! Some of you expressed an interest in finding out who I am, so you can out me. (I'm looking directly at you, Randy from Boise.) Go for it. I dare you. You know you want to. (Or you could just take a deep breath and calm down, up to you.) Look for the bread crumbs (here??). I'll be watching, with popcorn. (Well, actually, I won't be watching that closely, because I don't really care, but I'll look in from time to time, for the laughs.) While you're at it, take a look at something I said earlier in my editing experience, when my fan club really was at Something Awful. Especially the last paragraph. |  |  |  |  |
They never seem to realize how incredibly narcissistic they are, do they? |  |  |  |  |
Dare me. I double dare you, motherfucker.
_________________ Whiners!
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:35 am |
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Kiefer.Wolfowitz
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_________________Kiefer.Wolfowitz (T-C-L)You run into assholes all day; you're the asshole.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:10 am |
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Randy from Boise
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Fuck this dude. Seriously. Who cares who he is? The punch line is that the jolly fellow has put in 205 edits on the topic [[urination]].
That is funny, is it not?
RfB
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:16 am |
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Kiefer.Wolfowitz
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 |  |  |  | The Devil's Advocate wrote:  |  |  |  | Mason wrote: It would look bad if I had blocked Mathsci. But I didn't. I unblocked him. When I blocked or unblocked someone, it was because (1) I believed it was the right thing to do and (2) there was a policy basis for doing so. I have never toed the WO line. Search the archives here, you will find an equal number of cases where WO regulars were angry at me taking "anti-WO" admin actions. My mistake (well, one of them, anyway) was in adding running commentary here to my thought process about taking such admin actions there. Elonka (and Russavia) are right to point that out, and if I had that to do over again, I wouldn't. |  |  |  |  |
All right, I misread the logs there, but that only lessens the cause for concern. For instance, looking back at the Demiurge block, people actually suggested you were involved because of comments you exchanged with him on-wiki. At the time, I argued that this was not sufficient reason to call you involved. Suffice to say, I was wrong to suggest that as well since you clearly were involved and I find it quite absurd of you to suggest that there is no policy issue with you being a regular poster here, concealing that connection, and then taking action as an admin on Wikipedia against people who are criticizing WO. |  |  |  |  |
Demiurge1000 had been smearing Volunteer Marek as a "boxcutter crewmember" because of his participation here. Per WP:NPA, each aware administrator had the right to block him.
_________________Kiefer.Wolfowitz (T-C-L)You run into assholes all day; you're the asshole.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 9:52 am |
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lilburne
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And this has what to do with Wnt ranting - Hmmm? As far as I can see whatever 28bytes did over there was righteous and well deserved. All the rest is fucked up bullshit that emanates from the corrupted systems and morality that you commentards over there ascribe to. The active admin corps over there partial to man and woman. Many of them take money for edits, Jehochman for example admitted doing so the other month, wifione is almost certainly an associate of IIPM. Others act in accordance with their political bent (David Boothroyd was not the only one), some whilst acting as delegates for the party, check out Orangemike's edits. Then there is Cirt, and Gerrard. They are all at it and mostly they get away with it, because in most cases you DO NOT know who the fuck they are. Current when an Admin takes or doesn't take some action, you do not know whether it is because (s)he has a pecuniary, political, or social interest in the outcome. And as for Wnt we have no desire to say who else was elected from the WO slate in this round, you'll just have to figure that out on your own.
_________________ They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:49 am |
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Jim
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 Oh. my. word. Do try not to judge others based on your own propensity for shit-stirring and attempted petty political maneuvering, there's a good chap... First of all you're not any good at it, so it makes you look even sillier than your default level of "apologist clown and town wannabee", and secondly 28bytes has more honesty, integrity and propriety in his little finger than you could ever aspire to. Some people don't treat it as the MMORPG game you do, and choose, when that nonsense is attempted to be forced upon them, by those of your ilk, to walk away honourably rather than descend to the level of your blather. Good decision, I reckon. Hopefully he'll return sometime when playtime is over. Maybe, however, he's soured for good. One could hardly blame him were that the case. He can hold his head high in any event. I realise I've used a lot of words like honour, propriety and integrity, and I also quoted "shame", all of which concepts I fear you're likely to struggle with, and I apologise for that. Anyway, I wasn't after a debate with you - just wanted to wish you true happiness with your new friends. You may know a man by the company he keeps. 
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:55 pm |
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Hersch
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Being in the "hasten the day" camp would seem to be inconsistent with maintaining an active account at Wikipedia, which Mr. Murphy does.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:18 pm |
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Jim
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I disagree. Jimbo has an active account too, and nobody can hasten the day like he will. 
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:26 pm |
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Hex
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Yet strangely, I've seen enough unintelligent conversation on Wikipedia to last me a lifetime, and it came without the assistance of any kind of graphics at all.
_________________ My question, to this esteemed Wiki community, is this: Do you think that a Wiki could successfully generate a useful encyclopedia? -- JimboWales Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:32 pm |
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Hex
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Do as I say, not as I do.
_________________ My question, to this esteemed Wiki community, is this: Do you think that a Wiki could successfully generate a useful encyclopedia? -- JimboWales Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:33 pm |
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lilburne
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"hasten the day" would have been to keep shtum for as long as possible. Think of it as a volcano where the magma chamber is blocked. As each day passed the eventual release of WP commentardary would have been truly explosive.
_________________ They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:34 pm |
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Jim
Gregarious
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Dumb as dogshit in the back seats here, I'm afraid. Please explain, Mr Hex.
Last edited by Jim on Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:39 pm |
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Hersch
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Better put some of that popcorn away.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:41 pm |
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Midsize Jake
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Okay, so every single one of the Arbcom members declined the case against Mr. Murphy (except for one who recused). At the same time, they all professed to agree with Mr. Newyorkbrad that what Mr. Murphy did was "a gratuitous, indefensible act of hostility and unkindness." (At least I assume that's what they're agreeing with.) I suppose it might have been moderately hostile, and to the extent that any kindness was owed (this is dubious), maybe that too - but hardly "gratuitous" or "indefensible." Obviously the Wikipedians value their own anonymity above all else, and by now that's well-established and that's expected. The problem is that they expect the rest of the world to not only support them, but to respect and admire them for it. That's just not gonna happen.
I guess this is yet another example of their doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, but at least they did the right thing - that's better than previous Arbcoms would have done, IMO. And once again I'm forced to admit (FWIW) I was wrong, up above in this thread - I really thought there was a pretty good chance they'd try to make an example of him.
I also can't understand the attempts to conflate this case with that of Phil Sandifer, since the circumstances were completely different, but it doesn't surprise me that some of them would try.
All in all, I'd have to say it's time to start consigning this whole business to the "unusual incident that was interesting for a few days but ultimately meant relatively little" bin. I can agree that everybody looks bad on both sides, but not really that bad. (Not much worse than usual, anyway!)
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:07 pm |
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Jim
Gregarious
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I'd agree - except you missed out the bit where the Devil's Wotsit made an arse of himself by quoting shit he hadn't checked, and pontificating at everyone else regardless, and hilarity ensued. I mean, really, you're right in the grand scheme of things, but I dislike that particular tool a lot, and I think it's worth celebrating his idiocy here just because it makes me happy when it's so apparent - so just sayin...
Last edited by Jim on Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:13 pm |
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Vigilant
Witchsmeller Pursuivant
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 |  |  |  | Quote: EENg, happy new year, and no phone calls needed (well, actually, I'd be curious who answers the phone at 666). This is fun: I even got some 14 year old white boy so emotional that he created User:Dare me, Tryptofish!, now reverted and blocked. Carrite, you are really too smart a guy and too talented an editor to be spending so much thought and energy being hung up on me, as you are, but I'll note that you recently said this: [5]. In that context, you were correct, and I agree with you. But in this context, I'm turning it around and saying the exact same thing to you. --Tryptofish (talk) 14:48, 1 January 2014 (UTC) |  |  |  |  |
I'd say that qualifies. Game on.
_________________ Whiners!
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:17 pm |
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Vigilant
Witchsmeller Pursuivant
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It's like waiting for the very last kernels to pop.
_________________ Whiners!
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:39 pm |
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Jim
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Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
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Oh my word: Hero fucking Stratus himself. What more could we wish for? A genius of this magnitude is seldom seen,,, You couldn't order this from any take-out I'm local to. Self-absorption with chips, anyone? What a prick. Do the fuckwits really and truly have no idea how the world sees this (in the unlikely event it cares)? (don't answer)
Last edited by Jim on Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:41 pm |
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DanMurphy
Habitué
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm Posts: 2271
Wikipedia User: Bali ultimate
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy
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What a bunch of buffoons. Here's what happened: Will Nicholes (who goes by "28bytes" at Wikipedia and "Mason" here) wrote a retro video game in 2010 ( Duck Attack! (T-H-L))and he was seeking publicity for it. He decides a Wikipedia article will be helpful. Good call. The third google hit for "Will Nicholes" is the Wikipedia article he authored on his product; the first two hits are to his own website. How'd he do it? He calls his college buddy at the local paper in Ft. Wayne Toledo and gets him to generate a "reliable source" for him. He calls up the local paper in Ft. Wayne and gets them to write something too (local papers will write just about anything about locals). Presto, two "reliable" sources and evidence of "notability." Yay! And then he writes an article about his product (under the undisclosed, at the time, alias of "28bytes") on Wikipedia. This is not the end of the world but it's dodgy behavior - and a grand piece of evidence of why the editorial non-structure of Wikipedia does not and can not work. Self-dealing (whether for profit, vanity, political advantage, or etc...) is entirely too easy. It is carried out by their most powerful insiders. After all, Nicholes (as "28bytes") was the runaway winner of the arbitration committee election. Someone here figured all this out. So in one of the private areas there was discussion about writing a blog post and how to handle the matter. "Mason," who was thoroughly anonymous at the time, was monitoring all this and engaged. So as "28bytes" he went to Wikipedia and admitted some, but not all, of his violations of their paid editing and conflict of interest polices. In the process he explicitly identified himself as "Will Nicholes" - since he said he was the designer of the Duck Attack game and since "28bytes" had edited the Duck Attack article in 2010 to say that the designer was Nicholes. When it became clear that Mason=28bytes it was time to put all this together. There is no hostility in presenting these basic facts. Meanwhile, as to "unkindness" I've been subjected to various slanders on that page (the worst is the lying piece of scum Hochman, who was repeatedly allowed to lie and attack my professional life and character without a peep of protest from any of them). I don't really care. They're of no consequence. But this is all highly instructive about Wikipedia's core problems. Ira is as bad as any of them. What could be gratuitous about laying bare the truth that a vital, core principle of writing educational material (avoiding conflicts of interest) was being violated by one of the 12 or so most important people at the place? Part of the problem for Nicholes, who seems like a decent guy, is that he doesn't have the educational or professional background to be guiding the writing of an encyclopedia. I honestly believe him when he says it didn't occur to him that it would be a problem to use Wikipedia to promote himself and his work. But anyone who did have the appropriate background wouldn't consider it for half-a-second.
Last edited by DanMurphy on Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:33 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:50 pm |
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Jim
Gregarious
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am Posts: 858
Wikipedia User: Begoon
Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
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I failed. Well, I didn't consider it, but I spent time berating the tossers who did. I plead mitigating circumstances - one particular tosser needed my wisdom, and will continue to get it. Arseholes are arseholes are arseholes... You're right, though... Again.
Last edited by Jim on Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:54 pm |
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DanMurphy
Habitué
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm Posts: 2271
Wikipedia User: Bali ultimate
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy
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Well there are of course people who know better and go ahead and do it anyway. But you don't really want them around either.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:57 pm |
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Jim
Gregarious
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am Posts: 858
Wikipedia User: Begoon
Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
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Indeed I do not. Long may they avoid this place.
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:59 pm |
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The Devil's Advocate
Habitué
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:19 am Posts: 1263
Wikipedia User: The Devil's Advocate
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I am well aware of what Demiurge was saying as he was saying it to me as well. His comments to me, in fact, are indirectly what led to 28 blocking him. That is, Demiurge made such comments towards me on Gwickwire's talk page, 28 objected to Demiurge's comments, and the subsequent exchange led to Demiurge being blocked.  |  |  |  | lilburne wrote: And this has what to do with Wnt ranting - Hmmm?
As far as I can see whatever 28bytes did over there was righteous and well deserved. All the rest is fucked up bullshit that emanates from the corrupted systems and morality that you commentards over there ascribe to.
The active admin corps over there partial to man and woman. Many of them take money for edits, Jehochman for example admitted doing so the other month, wifione is almost certainly an associate of IIPM. Others act in accordance with their political bent (David Boothroyd was not the only one), some whilst acting as delegates for the party, check out Orangemike's edits. Then there is Cirt, and Gerrard.
They are all at it and mostly they get away with it, because in most cases you DO NOT know who the fuck they are. Current when an Admin takes or doesn't take some action, you do not know whether it is because (s)he has a pecuniary, political, or social interest in the outcome.
And as for Wnt we have no desire to say who else was elected from the WO slate in this round, you'll just have to figure that out on your own. |  |  |  |  |
This is the old "ends justifies the means argument" and that "using their own tactics against them" is the best way. I do not ascribe to such a notion. Most of the people you mention likely believe just as much that their actions were "righteous and well-deserved" and have more than a few supporters who feel the same way. When you endorse this sort of activity for some you effectively endorse it for all. As to how it relates to Wnt's ranting, well, this sort of issue gives him the excuse to speculate about "covert admin abuse of WO dissenters" by members here and all the paranoid aspersions that come with such an allegation.
_________________"For those who stubbornly seek freedom around the world, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination." - Noam Chomsky
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:18 pm |
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lilburne
Habitué
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:18 pm Posts: 3554
Wikipedia User: Nastytroll
Wikipedia Review Member: Lilburne
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 |  |  |  | The Devil's Advocate wrote: I am well aware of what Demiurge was saying as he was saying it to me as well. His comments to me, in fact, are indirectly what led to 28 blocking him. That is, Demiurge made such comments towards me on Gwickwire's talk page, 28 objected to Demiurge's comments, and the subsequent exchange led to Demiurge being blocked.  |  |  |  | lilburne wrote: And this has what to do with Wnt ranting - Hmmm?
As far as I can see whatever 28bytes did over there was righteous and well deserved. All the rest is fucked up bullshit that emanates from the corrupted systems and morality that you commentards over there ascribe to.
The active admin corps over there partial to man and woman. Many of them take money for edits, Jehochman for example admitted doing so the other month, wifione is almost certainly an associate of IIPM. Others act in accordance with their political bent (David Boothroyd was not the only one), some whilst acting as delegates for the party, check out Orangemike's edits. Then there is Cirt, and Gerrard.
They are all at it and mostly they get away with it, because in most cases you DO NOT know who the fuck they are. Current when an Admin takes or doesn't take some action, you do not know whether it is because (s)he has a pecuniary, political, or social interest in the outcome.
And as for Wnt we have no desire to say who else was elected from the WO slate in this round, you'll just have to figure that out on your own. |  |  |  |  |
This is the old "ends justifies the means argument" and that "using their own tactics against them" is the best way. I do not ascribe to such a notion. |  |  |  |  |
You are so intoxicated by the bullshit, you fail to see the point being made. 28bytes was right, there is no debate about that, there is no question of tactics or ends justifying means, the actions were correct. And they will be wrong. Many people who are wrong, believe themselves to be right, but that doesn't make them any less wrong, simply deluded. Now we are dealing with tactics, and ends justifying means, and the more paranoid commentards there are on WP the better.
_________________ They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:50 pm |
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The Adversary
Gregarious
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:01 am Posts: 817 Location: Troll country
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The page has been archived, here is permalink: permanent popcorn 
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:03 pm |
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Poetlister
Habitué
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm Posts: 3254
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You mean there should be a Wikipedia article with 20 references? 
_________________ No connection with anyone else of the same name!
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:21 pm |
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The Devil's Advocate
Habitué
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:19 am Posts: 1263
Wikipedia User: The Devil's Advocate
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I know the "point being made" quite well. You seem to think that the "correct" result arising means the action is "correct" and that is fundamentally saying the ends justify the means. As long as you are doing the "right" thing there are no other considerations that matter by your reasoning. When you make "correctness" the barometer by which an action is judged, you naturally create a precedent whereby various different views on the "correct" action allow for abusive actions to take place. Perhaps if you or those with whom you agree were the sole arbiters of "correctness" you would never perceive that an abusive action has taken place, but that is not the case. Even with a group of generally like-minded people you are going to have certain situations arise where there is dispute as to the "correct" action and a person may very well presume others will agree a certain action is correct, only to find that this is not the case after having taken action.
_________________"For those who stubbornly seek freedom around the world, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination." - Noam Chomsky
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:33 pm |
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SB_Johnny
Global Moderator
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:26 am Posts: 2869
Wikipedia User: SB_Johnny
Wikipedia Review Member: SB_Johnny
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I stopped being bothered by that sort of thing when I realized that Wikipedia is not an encyclopedia, but rather a unique phenomenon that records and describes the interests of modern-day eclectics, and since being "eclectic" has been rather fashionable over the past couple decades, that pretty much means everyone who buys into eclecticism being fashionable. There are of course people out there that don't realize that Wikipedia is something other than an encyclopedia, but those people are no fun at parties anyway.
_________________ This is not a signature.✌
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:36 pm |
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lilburne
Habitué
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:18 pm Posts: 3554
Wikipedia User: Nastytroll
Wikipedia Review Member: Lilburne
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You have to have been corrupted by wikipedia bullshit to even consider that there was anything abusive in the actions, there wasn't.
_________________ They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:39 pm |
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SB_Johnny
Global Moderator
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:26 am Posts: 2869
Wikipedia User: SB_Johnny
Wikipedia Review Member: SB_Johnny
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Do you actually believe this crap and the creeps you defend, or are you just playing the devil's advocate?
_________________ This is not a signature.✌
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:46 pm |
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lilburne
Habitué
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:18 pm Posts: 3554
Wikipedia User: Nastytroll
Wikipedia Review Member: Lilburne
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He's been running variants of this crap on various venues.
_________________ They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:56 pm |
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Vigilant
Witchsmeller Pursuivant
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm Posts: 7383
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant
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It' pretty tedious stuff.
_________________ Whiners!
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:04 pm |
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lilburne
Habitué
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:18 pm Posts: 3554
Wikipedia User: Nastytroll
Wikipedia Review Member: Lilburne
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As daft as Wnt without the humour.
_________________ They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined
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| Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:14 pm |
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