Hex wrote:EricBarbour wrote:Bloody hell. Wikipediocracy is becoming a nut magnet, just like Wikipedia and WR.
Evidently no one is allowed to critique Wikipedia without random assholes bringing the (unrelated) crazy.
So long as this forum remains the only(?) place where people can discuss how random assholes are using Wikipedia against them, that's probably going to be the case.
Meanwhile, the article on Wikipedia has been deleted and replaced with a sort-of redirect - see
Talk:Alexander Montagu, 13th Duke of Manchester (T-H-L). A good call by Nick. There's a secondary discussion happening
here among the peerage enthusiasts.
Thank you, thank you.
From the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage
I would expect this could be the first Duke to not register on the Roll and there could have been an assumption he would register, but I'll attempt to find out. Nick (talk) 19:16, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
He's not. Neither Argyll (who certainly uses his title) and Atholl, from the Scottish peerage, are on the Roll. Abercorn is on the roll, but only as a Marquess, having apparently proved succession to the marquessate but not to his Irish dukedom. (This suggests a certain level of red tape involved in the whole thing.)
What an observation, and what a coincidence that at first glance the Roll of the Peerage seems to have neglected four dukes.
Argyll was recognized as Sovereign in 1871, on the ocassion of the 9th Duke's marriage to a daughter of Queen Victoria. Atholl had been recognized as Sovereign by Queen Victoria in 1844. The Atholl Highlanders are an infantry regiment in the private employ of the Duke of Atholl, making it Europe's only legal private army. Manchester is the heir of King William I of Mann, and was recognized as Sovereign by treaty with King Edward III of England in 1333. The Duke of Marlborough also held this status from 1704 until his death in 1722.
Sovereign dukes deal personally with the Sovereign of the UK, not with the House of Lords. In 1722, the 2nd Duke of Montagu actually declared war on France over the islands of St Lucia and St Vincent in the Caribbean (both now Sovereign Realms), which he had purchased from King George I; he paid all the costs of the war, just as he spent much of his wealth on the effort to end slavery. The 7th Duke of Manchester founded the Most Venerable Order of St John on his own authority, and treated directly with the Ottoman Emperor to found the Hospital of St John in Jerusalem (now the St John Eye Hospital).
Obviously, the Dukes of Cumberland and Kings of Hanover were Sovereign, as was the Duke of Edinburgh and Coburg, and as were the Dukes of Albany and Coburg.
Irish Peers have never had the right to sit in the House of Lords, and Abercorn's rights in the UK are based on his British marquessate; he also happens to be Duke of Abercorn in Ireland and Duke of Châtellerault in the late Empire of the French (the Duke of Hamilton and Brandon is Duke of Châtellerault in the late Kingdom of France).
Why does WP Project Peerage and Baronetage know nothing of these things, which are common knowledge to some? I imagine because it is none of their business.
Thank you, thank you.