Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

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Midsize Jake
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Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Sun Oct 02, 2022 9:13 pm

Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

How a single Texas ruling could change the web forever
By Charlie Warzel, The Atlantic (paywalled), September 28, 2022

Mr. Warzel writes for the New York Times and is also responsible for the "Galaxy Brain" newsletter. Most experts are saying the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals ruling in the NetChoice v. Paxton lawsuit, along with the law (Texas House Bill 20) that it upheld on appeal, clearly violates the First Amendment and would be impossible to enforce, comply with, or even interpret. (The law/decision is essentially just the latest right-wing hissy-fit over Trump still being banned from Twitter.)

Nevertheless this article tries to paint a picture of how the internet would look if the law were to be taken seriously, though it sort-of assumes Texas is the only state whose government will ever be fascistic enough to put such a law into effect. It also mentions Wikipedia, though I suspect it's a spurious mention because Wikipedia would never meet the law's 50-million active users threshold, no matter how they might rationally define "active." But who knows what a Republican-dominated court would decide at this point, given that they're obviously now willing to wipe their collective asses with the Constitution and throw it into the toilet.
To give me a sense of just how sweeping and nonsensical the law could be in practice, [Techdirt founder Mike] Masnick suggested that, under the logic of the ruling, it very well could be illegal to update Wikipedia in Texas, because any user attempt to add to a page could be deemed an act of censorship based on the viewpoint of that user (which the law forbids). The same could be true of chat platforms, including iMessage and Reddit, and perhaps also Discord, which is built on tens of thousands of private chat rooms run by private moderators. Enforcement at that scale is nearly impossible. This week, to demonstrate the absurdity of the law and stress test possible Texas enforcement, the subreddit r/PoliticalHumor mandated that every comment in the forum include the phrase “Greg Abbott is a little piss baby” or be deleted. “We realized what a ripe situation this is, so we’re going to flagrantly break this law,” a moderator of the subreddit wrote. “Also, we like this Constitution thing. Seems like it has some good ideas.”
What is the endgame of a law that is both onerous to enforce and seemingly impossible to comply with? [Daphne] Keller offered two theories: “I think passing this law was so much fun for these legislators, and I think they might have expected it would get struck down, so the theater was the point.” But she also believes that there is likely some lack of understanding among those responsible for the law about just how extreme the First Amendment is in practice. “Most people don’t realize how much horrible speech is legal,” she said, arguing that historically, the constitutional right has confounded logic on both the political left and right. “These legislators think that they’re opening the door to some stuff that might offend liberals. But I don’t know if they realize they are also opening the door to barely legal child porn or pro-anorexia content and beheading videos. I don’t think they’ve understood how bad the bad is.”

NetChoice v. Paxton is likely an opening salvo in a long, complex, and dangerous legal battle. But Keller offered up a more troubling possibility: This law amounts to a legal speed run that could drastically alter First Amendment law in such a way as to quickly end the battle. “The Supreme Court could strike this down but offer a framework for future litigation that opens the door to new kinds of laws we’ve never seen before,” she said. “Who knows what rule set we’ll be playing with after the Supreme Court weighs in.”

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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

Unread post by Konveyor Belt » Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:48 am

I wonder if we'll get to the point that websites just start blocking users from acessing the sites in the states who pass laws like this, and we get a sort of reverse Great Firewall situation where instead of the government blocking its citizens from accessing sites, the government effectively forces the sites to block its citizens.
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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

Unread post by Hemiauchenia » Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:53 am

Konveyor Belt wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:48 am
I wonder if we'll get to the point that websites just start blocking users from acessing the sites in the states who pass laws like this, and we get a sort of reverse Great Firewall situation where instead of the government blocking its citizens from accessing sites, the government effectively forces the sites to block its citizens.
This is already happening as a result of the GDPR. Many American news websites deny access to European users because they consider the GDPR data storage policies to be too onerous.

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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

Unread post by Jim » Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:48 pm

Hemiauchenia wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:53 am
Many American news websites deny access to European users because they consider the GDPR data storage policies to be too onerous.
Which sites do this for this stated reason?

I'm not in America or Europe, so maybe I wouldn't have noticed but I don't recall seeing that as a "thing".

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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

Unread post by el84 » Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:50 pm

Jim wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:48 pm
Hemiauchenia wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:53 am
Many American news websites deny access to European users because they consider the GDPR data storage policies to be too onerous.
Which sites do this for this stated reason?

I'm not in America or Europe, so maybe I wouldn't have noticed but I don't recall seeing that as a "thing".
It is a lot of the more regional US news sites.

I can't remember any specific ones off the top of my head though.

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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

Unread post by Jim » Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:53 pm

el84 wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:50 pm
It is a lot of the more regional US news sites.

I can't remember any specific ones off the top of my head though.
Ah, ok, thanks. That makes sense. I'd be unlikely to have noticed that.

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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

Unread post by Anroth » Mon Oct 03, 2022 3:22 pm

Jim wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:53 pm
el84 wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:50 pm
It is a lot of the more regional US news sites.

I can't remember any specific ones off the top of my head though.
Ah, ok, thanks. That makes sense. I'd be unlikely to have noticed that.
Being in the UK the above is quite correct. Almost all regional news, and some national ones but not the big names. A lot of websites that provide curated content and require/allow logins. So think all those recipe sites etc.

But yes, mainly news ones.

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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

Unread post by Mason » Mon Oct 03, 2022 4:31 pm

Jim wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:53 pm
el84 wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:50 pm
It is a lot of the more regional US news sites.

I can't remember any specific ones off the top of my head though.
Ah, ok, thanks. That makes sense. I'd be unlikely to have noticed that.
An (admittedly old) article about it that I found interesting:

https://www.smartinsights.com/digital-m ... eters/amp/

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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

Unread post by Hemiauchenia » Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:41 pm

Jim wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:48 pm
Hemiauchenia wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:53 am
Many American news websites deny access to European users because they consider the GDPR data storage policies to be too onerous.
Which sites do this for this stated reason?

I'm not in America or Europe, so maybe I wouldn't have noticed but I don't recall seeing that as a "thing".
Baltimore Sun is a major one, any attempt to go to the website redirects you to https://www.tribpub.com/gdpr/baltimoresun.com/ (interestingly this isn't true for Chicago Tribune, which is also owned by Tribune Publishing, for whatever reason). It also used to be true for the LA Times, but they've fixed that now. It's also true for a lot of smaller city newspapers.

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Re: Is This the Beginning of the End of the Internet?

Unread post by Konveyor Belt » Tue Oct 04, 2022 4:44 am

Hemiauchenia wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:41 pm
Jim wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 1:48 pm
Hemiauchenia wrote:
Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:53 am
Many American news websites deny access to European users because they consider the GDPR data storage policies to be too onerous.
Which sites do this for this stated reason?

I'm not in America or Europe, so maybe I wouldn't have noticed but I don't recall seeing that as a "thing".
Baltimore Sun is a major one, any attempt to go to the website redirects you to https://www.tribpub.com/gdpr/baltimoresun.com/ (interestingly this isn't true for Chicago Tribune, which is also owned by Tribune Publishing, for whatever reason). It also used to be true for the LA Times, but they've fixed that now. It's also true for a lot of smaller city newspapers.
The LA Times and Chicago Tribune are considered newspapers of record for their region if not the whole country. For the Baltimore Sun and others, they're the most important paper in their local market, but their international readership likely is negligible enough for Tribune not to bother complying with GDPR for them. Which I think would make Twitter/Facebook/etc.'s pulling out of a US state all the more significant, because unlike these newspapers their focus is universal (and they're based in the US to begin with) so their decision would not be from simply not caring enough to comply with a law, but instead that law actively making it impossible for them to do business there.
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