Thinking carefully

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Peter Damian
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Thinking carefully

Unread post by Peter Damian » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:15 pm

He really does talk about 'thinking' a lot, doesn't he? I'm not sure he really means 'thinking' in the standard sense of the world, which means asking many challenging and honest questions to yourself in the privacy of your own mind. I rather think the Jimbo use of 'thinking carefully about X' means completely ignoring X and not thinking about it and hoping X will go away.
Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, who goes by the user name Jimbo Wales on the site, saw the autofellatio page as important enough to begin its debate on image use in February of 2005. “I invite people to think carefully about this photo in the context of an overall view of our charitable, humanitarian, educational mission,” he wrote, “and not be distracted by arguments about censorship and prudishness, which are very much beside the point here.” Yes, there was a penis being thrust into a man’s mouth on this page. But that penis needed to be “charitable, humanitarian, and educational” in addition to being covered in saliva.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jackstuef/insid ... ibitionism
What do you think? Other examples welcome.
οὐκ ἀγαθὸν πολυκοιρανίη: εἷς κοίρανος ἔστω

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by EricBarbour » Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:09 pm

He also seems to enjoy censoring things he shouldn't censor, although much less in recent years, esp, since the "founder's flag" was removed. Not all were on his talkpage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =135288385
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =142911822

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:39 pm

EricBarbour wrote:He also seems to enjoy censoring things he shouldn't censor, although much less in recent years, esp, since the "founder's flag" was removed. Not all were on his talkpage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =135288385
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =142911822
There were a few hundred votes in Meta once to remove the founder flag, but that's as far as it got; the flag was never removed.

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:17 am

HRIP7 wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:He also seems to enjoy censoring things he shouldn't censor, although much less in recent years, esp, since the "founder's flag" was removed. Not all were on his talkpage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =135288385
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =142911822
There were a few hundred votes in Meta once to remove the founder flag, but that's as far as it got; the flag was never removed.
He still has in on en.wp, but nowhere else... he's not even a steward any more.
This is not a signature.

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by HRIP7 » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:08 am

Thanks. In German Wikipedia, his user rights log is empty. But the pop-up for his user name still says "founder" (in italics) – and nothing else.

In English Wikipedia, the pop-up says "founder" twice: once in italics, and once in normal font. What's the difference?

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by EricBarbour » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:22 am

You tell me. The original vote to remove the flag did not exactly go "his way".
The final vote was 405 to remove, 125 to keep. Please note that a large percentage of the votes were made by sockpuppet accounts.
They yanked some of his powers, so he can't "disappear" things. Supposedly.

He "thought carefully". Heh heh.

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by thekohser » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:26 pm

Asked whether he fell in love with Garvey, Wales says, "Well, yeah, I suppose so" (which reminds the interviewer of Prince Charles' answer to the same question), before adding,
"I wanted to be quite thoughtful about my approach to another relationship".
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by HRIP7 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:33 pm

Wales's line was that you really need to see the Muhammed images to "think thoughtfully" about the controversy.
(HuffPo)

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by The Joy » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:20 am

"In the long run, volunteers are the most expensive workers you'll ever have." -Red Green

"Is it your thesis that my avatar in this MMPONWMG was mugged?" -Moulton

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by thekohser » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:08 am

Jimbo says that thoughtful editors can override reliable sources.
We did get rid of VNT <verifiability, not truth> as a formulation because it was confusing people - stated out of context it was leading people to the conclusion that we should repeat falsehoods supported in reliable sources even when the consensus of thoughtful editors is that they are falsehoods, which is clearly not the case.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by Peter Damian » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:53 pm

My position on working with companies and organization in difficult jurisdictions is, I think, thoughtful and nuanced,'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z2FytmmCNB
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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by thekohser » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:09 am

I have not given this enough thought yet to have a strong view, but I'd like to re-iterate David in DC's request that we proceed slowly and thoughtfully and get consensus before we move forward.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] ([[User talk:Jimbo Wales|talk]]) 21:59, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by Cedric » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:56 am

thekohser wrote:
I have not given this enough thought yet to have a strong view, but I'd like to re-iterate David in DC's request that we proceed slowly and thoughtfully and get consensus before we move forward.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] ([[User talk:Jimbo Wales|talk]]) 21:59, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
*sigh* I think it is time for Jimbo to "think thoughtfully" about acquiring a thesaurus.

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by tarantino » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:08 am

From wikiquote:
Ideally, our rules should be formed in such a fashion that an ordinary helpful kind thoughtful person doesn't really even need to know the rules. You just get to work, do something fun, and nobody hassles you as long as you are being thoughtful and kind.

User talk statement (7 April 2005)
The real struggle is not between the right and the left but between the party of the thoughtful and the party of the jerks.
"How a ragtag band created Wikipedia" - TED Talk (July 2005)
We are Wikipedians. This means that we should be: kind, thoughtful, passionate about getting it right, open, tolerant of different viewpoints, open to criticism, bold about changing our policies and also cautious about changing our policies. We are not vindictive, childish, and we don't stoop to the level of our worst critics, no matter how much we may find them to be annoying.

Wikipedia-l mailing list (18 December 2005, 15:39 UTC)
Note the previous quote is actually from his talk page.

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by EricBarbour » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:46 am

Here's an idea: instead of finding stuff like this (amusing though it might be), how about you guys
go thru his talkpage archive, year after year, and add up all the instances of him deleting criticisms
or other things he "doesn't like"? I suspect there's more of those than of the word "thoughtful".

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by TungstenCarbide » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:12 am

EricBarbour wrote:Here's an idea: instead of finding stuff like this (amusing though it might be), how about you guys
go thru his talkpage archive, year after year, and add up all the instances of him deleting criticisms
or other things he "doesn't like"? I suspect there's more of those than of the word "thoughtful".
In the past, his favorite response to descent has been to call the person a troll. I think he kept that up several years.
Gone hiking. also, beware of women with crazy head gear and a dagger.

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by dogbiscuit » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:27 am

TungstenCarbide wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:Here's an idea: instead of finding stuff like this (amusing though it might be), how about you guys
go thru his talkpage archive, year after year, and add up all the instances of him deleting criticisms
or other things he "doesn't like"? I suspect there's more of those than of the word "thoughtful".
In the past, his favorite response to descent has been to call the person a troll. I think he kept that up several years.
...because it then requires no thought.

Like AGF, Jimbo's world is a one way street: he is not required to be thoughtful, he is not required to assume the best of people critical of the project, he is not required to follow the rules if he decides he has a personal interest.
Time for a new signature.

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by rhindle » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:04 am

TungstenCarbide wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:Here's an idea: instead of finding stuff like this (amusing though it might be), how about you guys
go thru his talkpage archive, year after year, and add up all the instances of him deleting criticisms
or other things he "doesn't like"? I suspect there's more of those than of the word "thoughtful".
In the past, his favorite response to descent has been to call the person a troll. I think he kept that up several years.

How about start "deleted by Jimbo" thread where every time Jimbo reverts a legitimate discussion or question that he does not like it gets posted in that thread?

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by everyking » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:17 pm

dogbiscuit wrote:
TungstenCarbide wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:Here's an idea: instead of finding stuff like this (amusing though it might be), how about you guys
go thru his talkpage archive, year after year, and add up all the instances of him deleting criticisms
or other things he "doesn't like"? I suspect there's more of those than of the word "thoughtful".
In the past, his favorite response to descent has been to call the person a troll. I think he kept that up several years.
...because it then requires no thought.

Like AGF, Jimbo's world is a one way street: he is not required to be thoughtful, he is not required to assume the best of people critical of the project, he is not required to follow the rules if he decides he has a personal interest.
I think he's quite "thoughtful", in the sense that he is full of thoughts about his own self-interest.

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by Silent Editor » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:39 am

I see thoughtfulness is going to solve things in the Turkish wikipedia too. (Along with kindness and forgiveness, of course).
-- Silent Editor

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by mac » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:49 am

I had never heard this phrase before the Bamkin incident, but now I've seen it a few times, from Jimbo and Wikipedia critics:
Note from Jimbo: Wow, this is just wildly inappropriate. I spoke to Mr. Pierce by telephone several days ago and the issue was completely resolved back then. I think Zoe's pursuit of this in this way is wildly inappropriate and should cease immediately, and that she should apologize to him for it. I very much do not approve of this kind of random hostility from Wikipedia editors.--Jimbo Wales 09:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Possibly off topic, but it seems wildly inappropriate to make a new thread for this. ;)

(Spotted thanks to this post.)

[edit] Bolded another instance in the same quote. NFI how that went unspotted.
Last edited by mac on Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by Malleus » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:27 am

mac wrote:I had never heard this phrase before the Bamkin incident, but now I've seen it a few times, from Jimbo and Wikipedia critics:
Note from Jimbo: Wow, this is just wildly inappropriate. I spoke to Mr. Pierce by telephone several days ago and the issue was completely resolved back then. I think Zoe's pursuit of this in this way is wildly inappropriate and should cease immediately, and that she should apologize to him for it. I very much do not approve of this kind of random hostility from Wikipedia editors.--Jimbo Wales 09:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Possibly off topic, but it seems wildly inappropriate to make a new thread for this. ;)

(Spotted thanks to this post.)
Clearly Jimbo is unfamiliar with the meaning of the word "random". Perhaps he confuses it with Random?

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by thekohser » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:29 am

Regarding Gibraltarpedia:
Wales noted: "It is wildly inappropriate for a board member of a chapter, or anyone else in an official role of any kind in a charity associated with Wikipedia, to take payment from customers in exchange for securing favorable placement on the front page of Wikipedia or anywhere else."
Regarding the User page of WebHamster, Jimbo said:
I think it is wildly inappropriate for Wikipedia and reflects negatively on the project.
Regarding how MZMcBride told off another user who clearly didn't know what he was doing, Jimbo said:
I want to make sure you don't think that the decline of the ArbCom case makes it ok for you to behave in this fashion. This comment was wildly inappropriate.
Regarding someone's documentation of the murder of Meredith Kercher, Jimbo said:
Censoring such information is wildly inappropriate.
I grew bored of finding more examples.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

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Re: Thinking carefully

Unread post by Hex » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:02 pm

Jimbo Wales wrote:Our responsible and thoughtful editorial judgment must always come first, yes. We should strive for factual, neutral, high quality information. In the current situation in Russia, entire topics of human knowledge have been declared off limits for discussion. This is a deep human rights violation.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 13:50, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
(Talk:Jimbo Wales)

Could be worse... in Soviet Russia, topics delete you. :stalin:
My question, to this esteemed Wiki community, is this: Do you think that a Wiki could successfully generate a useful encyclopedia? -- JimboWales
Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)

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