Jimmy Wales launches a foul attack on Jeremy Corbyn

[Poetlister]

Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales launched a foul attack on Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party on 4 July. On social media, Wales called on people to “get on board with kicking out” Labour’s “antisemitic leadership”.

thecanary.co

The Canary is a site devoted to extolling the virtues of Jeremy Corbyn, so it has a strong POV.

[mendaliv]

Ah yes, the opinion of a septic tank. Highly relevant.

[Midsize Jake]

Jimbo has done this sort of thing before - about a year ago, Hamas launched some rockets into Israel that injured 6 people, and this was followed by an Israeli counter-strike that killed 3 people. Jimbo tweeted, "150 rockets fired toward Israel by Hamas. @jeremycorbyn silent." This led to some Palestine supporters and Arab-world media outlets calling for Wikipedia to be forked.

I've noticed that very few, if any, of these stories ever mention that Jimbo is married to a former Tony Blair aide and that the Blairite contingent in London is basically his immediate social circle. There may be a reason for that beyond the reporters simply not knowing - IOW, the lefty Labour people might be worried about pissing off the centrists too much by implying that they're using Jimbo as a Twitter hatchet-man. Hard to say, though, since I'm not even from there.

[Poetlister]

Of course Jeremy Corbyn has been called an anti-Semite by many people, even Labour MPs, so Jimbo isn't exactly being eccentric. I doubt that his marriage is much of a factor. He was moving in those circles well before the marriage, and maybe he was doing so partly because he shared many of their views.

[Carcharoth]

The hilarious thing about Jimmy and London recently was his reaction to decisions taken by his local council (where did I see that mentioned?). It is a very London (and middle-class) thing. I say that as Londoner myself. Jimmy is well on the way to becoming an honorary Brit...

[Auggie]

Good for Jimmy. Corbyn is antisemitic af.

[Poetlister]

Jimmy is well on the way to becoming an honorary Brit...

What an awful thought! Well, Kelly Martin often said that he wanted to live in a castle. That would presumably mean leaving London.

[tarantino]

The article left out the joke he tweeted. He ended up blocking a bunch of people who criticised him in response.

Joke: A man rings 999 in a panic. "My wife is 9 months pregnant and has just started screaming!" "What is she saying?" "She is ranting about Jews!" "Don't worry, it only means she's gone into Labour..."

There's over 600 replies and some delicious insults.

[Randy from Boise]

The article left out the joke he tweeted. He ended up blocking a bunch of people who criticised him in response.

Joke: A man rings 999 in a panic. "My wife is 9 months pregnant and has just started screaming!" "What is she saying?" "She is ranting about Jews!" "Don't worry, it only means she's gone into Labour..."

There's over 600 replies and some delicious insults.

Jimmy Wales is a Blairite to the core.

RfB

[Poetlister]

Jimmy Wales is a Blairite to the core.

RfB

Is opposing anti-Semitism in the Labour party now synonymous with Blairism?

[Randy from Boise]

Jimmy Wales is a Blairite to the core.

RfB

Is opposing anti-Semitism in the Labour party now synonymous with Blairism?

You, on the other hand, are obtuse. Keep chanting those Tory memes...

t

[tarantino]

Let's see, there's Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Conservative_Party (T-H-L), Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party (T-H-L) and Antisemitism_in_the_United_Kingdom (T-H-L). There's plenty of it to go around.

[Randy from Boise]

Let's see, there's Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Conservative_Party (T-H-L), Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party (T-H-L) and Antisemitism_in_the_United_Kingdom (T-H-L). There's plenty of it to go around.

The article I want to see is 2019 UK Conservative Party "Anti-Semitism" Disinformation Campaign Against Jeremy Corbyn (T-H-L)

RfB

[Smiley]

Let's see, there's Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Conservative_Party (T-H-L), Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party (T-H-L) and Antisemitism_in_the_United_Kingdom (T-H-L). There's plenty of it to go around.

The article I want to see is 2019 UK Conservative Party "Anti-Semitism" Disinformation Campaign Against Jeremy Corbyn (T-H-L)

RfB

We really need a SOFIXIT smiley.

[Randy from Boise]

Let's see, there's Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Conservative_Party (T-H-L), Antisemitism_in_the_UK_Labour_Party (T-H-L) and Antisemitism_in_the_United_Kingdom (T-H-L). There's plenty of it to go around.

The article I want to see is 2019 UK Conservative Party "Anti-Semitism" Disinformation Campaign Against Jeremy Corbyn (T-H-L)

RfB

We really need to invest in a SOFIXIT smiley.

We'd also need an AINTGONNATOUCHIT smiley in that case...

RfB

[Smiley]

The article I want to see is 2019 UK Conservative Party "Anti-Semitism" Disinformation Campaign Against Jeremy Corbyn (T-H-L)

Weell... looks like we got ourselves a readah...

Draft:2019_UK_Conservative_Party_"Anti-Semitism"_Disinformation_Campaign_Against_Jeremy_Corbyn (T-H-L)



Hey, Hibbledy-hobbledy (T-C-L)!
Whatcha readin' faw?

[mendaliv]

Hey, Hibbledy-hobbledy (T-C-L)!
Whatcha readin' faw?

From the look of his userpage, seems to like ferrets.

[Smiley]

Hey, Hibbledy-hobbledy (T-C-L)!
Whatcha readin' faw?

From the look of his userpage, seems to like ferrets.

Looks like an Uncle Joe Job.

[Poetlister]

Jimmy Wales is a Blairite to the core.

RfB

Is opposing anti-Semitism in the Labour party now synonymous with Blairism?

You, on the other hand, are obtuse. Keep chanting those Tory memes...

t

I am happy to be in the company of Tories such as Jon Lansman (T-H-L) and Rebecca Long-Bailey (T-H-L) on this. You may rejoice that you would be immune from the consequences if people like Chris Williamson (politician) (T-H-L) ever came to power, and could mock his victims.

[Poetlister]

Three Labour peers - David Triesman, Baron Triesman (T-H-L), Leslie Turnberg, Baron Turnberg (T-H-L) and Ara Darzi, Baron Darzi of Denham (T-H-L) - have just resigned the whip in protest about anti-Semitism in the Labour party. No doubt one or two people here will immediately dismiss the first two as Blairites (althoug Lord Triesman's parents were Communists), not to mention Zionists who do not understand English irony although they and their parents were all born in England. However, I would be interested to see how Lord Darzi can be dismissed as a Tory.

[Carcharoth]

FWIW, BBC article here:

Top Labour figures 'interfered' in anti-Semitism disputes.

And (for those in the UK) a Panorama (TV programme) (T-H-L) programme to be broadcast tonight (Wednesday):

Is Labour Anti-Semitic?

Panorama goes inside the anti-Semitism crisis gripping Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party. With exclusive interviews from key insiders and access to confidential communications and documents, this is the story of how the crises developed. Reporter John Ware reveals the evasions and contradictions at the heart of the political party which leader Jeremy Corbyn says has anti-racism at its very core.

[Smiley]

I'm sure it's all completely unconnected, but a lot of establishment types seem terrified by the prospect of a Corbyn-led government.

Why are they so scared? It can't just be because of his resemblance to a haunted tennis ball.

To quote Frankie Boyle:

I honestly don't think that Corbyn would make a good leader but only because he would quickly take his own life in a highly unconvincing manner on a long country walk, an inquiry taking 15 years to report that he had kicked himself to death.

[Carcharoth]

I can't find it now, but there is some book that the Labour front bench are apparently reading to learn how to govern, and it is very Marxist or something. The banks get nationalised on day one or something.

[Dysklyver]

I can't find it now, but there is some book that the Labour front bench are apparently reading to learn how to govern, and it is very Marxist or something. The banks get nationalised on day one or something.

Labour are secretly all commies.

[Smiley]

I can't find it now, but there is some book that the Labour front bench are apparently reading to learn how to govern, and it is very Marxist or something. The banks get nationalised on day one or something.

Yes that's the plan, swiftly followed by the execution of the Royal Family and the re-introduction of rationing and clogs.




ps. The book to which you refer is almost certainly that crypto-Marxist classic The House at Pooh Corner (T-H-L) by Seumas Milne (T-H-L).

[Poetlister]

I'm sure it's all completely unconnected, but a lot of establishment types seem terrified by the prospect of a Corbyn-led government.

No, it is connected. One of the reasons that many people are terrified by the prospect of a Corbyn-led government is precisely becuse there are so many anti-Semites in influential positions. I hope that there is no suggestion that the anti-Semitism row is a complete fabrication by people such as Sir Keir Starmer, Jon Lansman and Rebecca Long-Bailey.

[Smiley]

The article I want to see is 2019 UK Conservative Party "Anti-Semitism" Disinformation Campaign Against Jeremy Corbyn (T-H-L)

Draft declined by Bkissin (T-C-L)




02:37, 12 July : Draft moved to UK Conservative Party "Anti-Semitism" Disinformation Campaign Against Jeremy Corbyn (T-H-L)

03:35, 12 July : WP:SPEEDY (T-H-L) deletion by Acroterion (T-C-L)

[Randy from Boise]

I'm sure it's all completely unconnected, but a lot of establishment types seem terrified by the prospect of a Corbyn-led government.

No, it is connected. One of the reasons that many people are terrified by the prospect of a Corbyn-led government is precisely becuse there are so many anti-Semites in influential positions. I hope that there is no suggestion that the anti-Semitism row is a complete fabrication by people such as Sir Keir Starmer, Jon Lansman and Rebecca Long-Bailey.

Oh, that's just ridiculous.

TAXATION and potential NATIONALIZATION are the things that the English bourgeoisie is worried about. This whole so-called "Anti-Semitism" hoopty-hoopty is pure politics, a surefire slogan that the right wing press, conservative pols, and Blairite toadies can unite around to get rid of big, bad Jezza Corbyn. Nobody with a brain believes that shit but they keep yammering The Big Lie. Just listen to Poetlister repeat that same tired shit again and again... Pretty soon people who aren't paying attention believe it. That's how the game works.

It's a completely fucking ridiculous, patently obvious red herring. Corbyn is anti-ISRAELI. Israel is a militaristic apartheid state run by a corrupt pol, who can honestly blame him, other than nationalist cheerleaders?

Point of reference: there are about 300,000 Jews in the UK, a country of 63.1 million people (0.5% of the population).

"Anti-Semitism" is "terrifying" so many people, my ass. A completely fabricated issue.

RfB

P.S. Enjoy your Boris Johnson, idiots.

[Moral Hazard]

J. K. Rowling has good sense, and better sense than some of the above comrades.

[Poetlister]

Randy is obviously a hard-boiled Corbynite who will not hear a word said against his idol. And of course, he's right; Jews are only a small proportion of the population of the UK, so he can laugh at the threat of anti-Semitism in the UK.

But consider this. If the whole thing is a put-up job to discredit Corbyn, why choose anti-Semitism as a weapon? Other types of racism or child molesting for example would be vastly more effective. But you probably couldn't get allegations of those to stand up very well. However, with anti-Semitism you are getting people who could not possibly be regarded as anti-Corbyn, such as Lord Darzi, Rebecca Long-Bailey and even Jon Lansman, the man mainly responsible for Jeremy Corbyn becoming leader, supporting the criticisms. (OK, Jon Lansman is a Zionist so he doesn't understand English irony. But the other two aren't.)

What struck me about the Panorama programme is that I was already well aware of nearly everything in it. Why are people so shocked by it? If I knew, why didn't they?

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Fortunately, there are many non-Jews in Britain with more courage thn that.

[Midsize Jake]

Fortunately, there are many non-Jews in Britain with more courage thn that.

Well... Mr. Randy (and I) are Americans, so our approach is usually framed differently. He probably follows Corbyn a lot more closely than I do, but as far as what's happening over here is concerned, the current brouhaha is probably a good example - to wit, check out this article on Slate.com about the US Holocaust Museum's objection to use of the term "concentration camps" to describe Trump's immigrant child-detention facilities on the US-Mexico border. Would you say that article is, in any meaningful way, anti-semitic? Do you agree with it?

I guess all I can really say about Corbyn is that he's been advocating for Palestinian rights for what, 40 years? That's a long time to for someone to avoid making dubious references to Jewish people and Judaism, particularly given that there are plenty of people willing to go through his entire record and cherry-pick whatever they can find. I'd have to assume that's why they chose this particular tactic, too - the likelihood of finding something smear-worthy was just that much greater than it was with anything else.

[Moral Hazard]

I would suggest closing this topic, which does not illuminate Jimmy Wales or Wikipedia, but generates conflict among us.

The conflict is serious but should be resolved elsewhere.

[Poetlister]

That article isn't anti-Semitic, just stupid. It's unfortunate that the Nazi extermination camps were ever called concentration camps, a ridiculous euphemism. Nobody, surely, is suggesting that Trump's camps are being used to murder people on an industrial scale; any hint of such a claim ruins that person's argument.

Yes, Corbyn has been advocating Palestinian rights for a long time, while pointedly ignoring the plight of groups facing worse treatment, such as Kurds in Turkey or Muslims in China and Myanmar. Yes, he has been calling murderous terrorists his friends, from Ireland to Syria. But the main criticism of him is not his personal actions but the way that he has supported and defended people who cannot possibly be regarded as not anti-Semitic, and tried (sometimes successfully) to stop them being expelled from the Labour party.

I wish no harm on Randy. On the contrary, may he live and prosper. But I hope that one day he realises what it's like to fear the coming to power of politicians who do not wish him well. Maybe then he'll stop this nonsense.

[Poetlister]

I would suggest closing this topic, which does not illuminate Jimmy Wales or Wikipedia, but generates conflict among us.

The conflict is serious but should be resolved elsewhere.

Seconded.

[Auggie]

Please keep fighting. I like conflict.

[AndyTheGrump]

...pointedly ignoring the plight of groups facing worse treatment, such as ... Muslims in... Myanmar.

Please stop making shit up:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asi ... an-suu-kyi

[Kumioko]

...pointedly ignoring the plight of groups facing worse treatment, such as ... Muslims in... Myanmar.

Please stop making shit up:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asi ... an-suu-kyi

And as if a fart in the wind, the great Andy appears from the ether to set the critics straight...

[Midsize Jake]

And as if a fart in the wind, the great Andy appears from the ether to set the critics straight...

He's had three or four posts in the last week, so maybe it's time for you to dig out the ol' Holier-Than-Thou-scented air freshener.

That article isn't anti-Semitic, just stupid. It's unfortunate that the Nazi extermination camps were ever called concentration camps, a ridiculous euphemism. Nobody, surely, is suggesting that Trump's camps are being used to murder people on an industrial scale; any hint of such a claim ruins that person's argument.

You didn't actually read the article, did you?

Obviously nobody is suggesting that the ICE "detention facilities" be called "extermination camps," and it wasn't so much "unfortunate" that camps like Auschwitz and Dachau were initially called "concentration camps," it was deliberate, as a way to soften public perception and hide their real purpose. The term "concentration camp" comes from the Boer War; those camps were used to herd Boers into small areas where they could be easily controlled (so that the British army could assume that anyone not in a British uniform was a combatant). When they were first built, the British called them "refugee camps." Same process.

Anyway, this is what we get here in the USA all the time - people not understanding history, determined (if not condemned) to repeat it. You could vote for a qualified, intelligent, experienced person, or you could vote for a con man who will say literally anything just to win the election - and one of the things he might say is that the qualified, intelligent, experienced person is "crooked" or "corrupt" or perhaps even "anti-semitic" when in fact the opposite is true. And you'll literally line up around the block to screw yourselves over, simply because you can't (or can't be be bothered to) think critically.

Presumably you'll say it's not like that in the UK, people don't do that sort of thing, and I hope you're right. But so far, what I've seen isn't that far off from what we have over here.

[Zoloft]

I'll also chime in and say this topic is toxic, and the opinions expressable have been expressed.

I vote to close it.

[Vigilant]

Thanks, guys.

This is why we can’t have nice things.

[Midsize Jake]

Oh, all right...

[Poetlister]

On Friday, UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn tweeted his support for Muslim Labour candidate Ali Milani. ...

Jeremy Corbyn. Today. Promoting a candidate with a history of antisemitic remarks.

I have no words. https://t.co/piDx7efrJM

— Jimmy Wales (@jimmy_wales) July 19, 2019

Joke: A man rings 999 in a panic. "My wife is 9 months pregnant and has just started screaming!" "What is she saying?" "She is ranting about Jews!" "Don't worry, it only means she's gone into Labour…"

— Jimmy Wales (@jimmy_wales) July 4, 2019

israellycool.com

I hope this won't lead to an argument; I'm just reporting a news item about Jimbo.

[Smiley]

How disingenuous.

We already have a thread for Jimboy's anti-antisemetic antics, started by you, which mentions this joke, called Jimmy Wales launches a foul attack on Jeremy Corbyn.

It's bullshit.
You know it's bullshit, I know it's bullshit, Jimmy knows it's bullshit.



ps. And before you start, I'm half Jewish...

... the bottom half.

[Poetlister]

OK, I'm sure a mod will merge the threads.

[Midsize Jake]

OK, I'm sure a mod will merge the threads.

Done!

Apparently, Ali Milani is only about 23 years old, and is going to run for Boris Johnson's seat in Parliament in the next election. The tweets in question were done in 2012 or thereabouts, when he was still just a teenager. So if it's OK for Jimbo to criticize Milani for those tweets, I guess it's probably OK for us to criticize Jimbo for having run a porno link-farm and freely using the n-word around his employees back in the day.

And as Jeremy Corbyn himself says, "I think we're in for a very bad time with Johnson and Trump getting together to screw up our markets." And this is even before the UK loses Scotland and Northern Ireland...

[Poetlister]

On 22 September, delegates at the Labour Party annual conference in Brighton voted for a motion to abolish private schools. The plan would see the removal of their charitable status and a redistribution of their properties to the state. Delegates approved this motion to become part of Labour’s next election manifesto.

It’s a radical proposal that could revolutionise the British education system. And while you might expect some opposition to this move, nonsensical analogies, like the one from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, make no sense at all.

The Canary

The Canary is a hard left site.

[Randy from Boise]

On 22 September, delegates at the Labour Party annual conference in Brighton voted for a motion to abolish private schools. The plan would see the removal of their charitable status and a redistribution of their properties to the state. Delegates approved this motion to become part of Labour’s next election manifesto.

It’s a radical proposal that could revolutionise the British education system. And while you might expect some opposition to this move, nonsensical analogies, like the one from Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, make no sense at all.

The Canary

The Canary is a hard left site.

You could just call it "left wing," that's fine. "Soft left" means "neoliberalism" or "centrism." Call those what they are, too.

RfB

[Randy from Boise]

Hey PL, could you give us dumb Yanks a rundown on the British lingo: "private school," "public school," "state school?"

Not exactly sure the difference between the first two in UKspeak.

RfB

[Jans Hammer]

Corbyn and McConnell are Marxist. No big secret about it.

[Poetlister]

RfB: No, "hard left" is the correct description, unless you prefer Marxist or a similar term. We don't use the term "neoliberal" here. I suppose the nearest British equivalent is social democrat.

How can left, however soft, be centrism?

A state school is one paid for by public funds. It used to be that such schools were under the control of the local county or borough, though increasingly this is not the case. A private school is one paid for not by public funds, but by charging fees. While the Government inspects and regulates these schools to some extent, they are far freer in what they can do than state schools are. "Public school" is the traditional term for old established private schools that are non-profit making, such as Eton, Harrow, Rugby and Westminster. These schools themselves no longer use the term, preferring "independent schools".

The Labour proposal is to nationalise all private schools and confiscate their assets.