WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election Time!

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Kumioko » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:18 pm

Dysklyver wrote:
Eric Corbett wrote:I have no idea what the Sass community is.
You really don't need to know because it isn't a "community" really. Not in the way that FOSS is a community. Suffice to say is that Sass is visual effects software for the internet. Basically, it is a component of web development, and therefore anyone doing websites will eventually find themselves having to use it.

P.S. All this waiting while people vote is so boring! I want to know who wins! :angry:
No matter who wins...they're still losers!

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by WhoReallyCares » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:32 pm

Kumioko wrote:
Dysklyver wrote:
Eric Corbett wrote:I have no idea what the Sass community is.
You really don't need to know because it isn't a "community" really. Not in the way that FOSS is a community. Suffice to say is that Sass is visual effects software for the internet. Basically, it is a component of web development, and therefore anyone doing websites will eventually find themselves having to use it.

P.S. All this waiting while people vote is so boring! I want to know who wins! :angry:
No matter who wins...they're still losers!
I disagree. Sure, the likes of Drmies are pitiful. He's in his early fifties and acts like a fucking teenager. I'm guessing he's spent most of the last three decades teaching kids and consequently hasn't matured at all. He's a very sad excuse for an adult.

But Molly is different. She's 25 and IMO very mature for her age. She has a job worth calling a job and is already enjoying career progression.

On top of this is the fact she's not some dumb-arse provincial. I've spent time in Boston [in addition to years in London, Bangkok and Singapore] and can easily spot the difference between those who live in metropolitan areas and little country bumpkins.

Magic Molly rocks!! And she ain't no loser.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Eric Corbett » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:36 pm

WhoReallyCares wrote:I disagree. Sure, the likes of Drmies are pitiful. He's in his early fifties and acts like a fucking teenager. I'm guessing he's spent most of the last three decades teaching kids and consequently hasn't matured at all. He's a very sad excuse for an adult.

But Molly is different. She's 25 and IMO very mature for her age. She has a job worth calling a job and is already enjoying career progression.

On top of this is the fact she's not some dumb-arse provincial. I've spent time in Boston [in addition to years in London, Bangkok and Singapore] and can easily spot the difference between those who live in metropolitan areas and little country bumpkins.

Magic Molly rocks!! And she ain't no loser.
Why are you guessing about Drmies? It's no secret that he's a tenured professor at an American university. But maybe you consider undergraduates to be "kids"?

As for Molly, I think you really need to take off your blinkers.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Poetlister » Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:25 pm

Dysklyver wrote:All this waiting while people vote is so boring! I want to know who wins! :angry:
Be like Jacob Rees-Mogg (T-H-L), who says "patience is a virtue, virtue is a grace".
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:25 pm

WhoReallyCares wrote:
I've spent time in Boston [in addition to years in London, Bangkok and Singapore] and can easily spot the difference between those who live in metropolitan areas and little country bumpkins.
Speaking on behalf of those who left the urban death maze to deliberately live in a place where things are simpler: please keep thinking that way, it helps keep people like you in the city where you belong.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by GorillaWarfare » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:31 pm

WhoReallyCares wrote:Questions for Molly

A guy posting as Grillofrances asks:

1. At which age did you become software developer?
2. What are the main technologies you use in your software developer work?

I wonder why he considers this relevant. Anyway, I'm going with HTML, SASS [plain CSS is so yesterday], Jquery [certainly not vanilla Javascript], and perhaps a bit of PHP / SQL. Oh, and LAMP Stacks.
Not too far off. JavaScript (using React, not so much jQuery these days) and Sass. No PHP. I don't personally use SQL in my day-to-day but it is used at the company.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by GorillaWarfare » Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:33 pm

Dysklyver wrote:
Eric Corbett wrote:I have no idea what the Sass community is.
You really don't need to know because it isn't a "community" really. Not in the way that FOSS is a community. Suffice to say is that Sass is visual effects software for the internet. Basically, it is a component of web development, and therefore anyone doing websites will eventually find themselves having to use it.

P.S. All this waiting while people vote is so boring! I want to know who wins! :angry:
I'm not sure I'd say anyone doing websites will find themselves using it—a lot of people use plain CSS or Less.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by WhoReallyCares » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:19 pm

GorillaWarfare wrote:
Dysklyver wrote:
Eric Corbett wrote:I have no idea what the Sass community is.
You really don't need to know because it isn't a "community" really. Not in the way that FOSS is a community. Suffice to say is that Sass is visual effects software for the internet. Basically, it is a component of web development, and therefore anyone doing websites will eventually find themselves having to use it.

P.S. All this waiting while people vote is so boring! I want to know who wins! :angry:
I'm not sure I'd say anyone doing websites will find themselves using it—a lot of people use plain CSS or Less.
True. Vanilla CSS is fine for most sites. A lot of developers now use CSS frameworks, but I personally hate that shit.

PS. Checked out React earlier today, but can't see a reason to use it. JavasScript / Jquery is fine for 99% of clients.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Dysklyver » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:29 pm

WhoReallyCares wrote:
GorillaWarfare wrote:
Dysklyver wrote:
Eric Corbett wrote:I have no idea what the Sass community is.
You really don't need to know because it isn't a "community" really. Not in the way that FOSS is a community. Suffice to say is that Sass is visual effects software for the internet. Basically, it is a component of web development, and therefore anyone doing websites will eventually find themselves having to use it.

P.S. All this waiting while people vote is so boring! I want to know who wins! :angry:
I'm not sure I'd say anyone doing websites will find themselves using it—a lot of people use plain CSS or Less.
True. Vanilla CSS is fine for most sites. A lot of developers now use CSS frameworks, but I personally hate that shit.

PS. Checked out React earlier today, but can't see a reason to use it. JavasScript / Jquery is fine for 99% of clients.
The frameworks (google "bootstrap" if no clue) are super easy for people that just want to build a site that works on all devices straight away and don't really care about advanced customization or performance. However, my favorite web thing of the moment would be AMP. And frameworks do not work with AMP at all, you can't even use external stylesheets.
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by GorillaWarfare » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:43 pm

WhoReallyCares wrote:PS. Checked out React earlier today, but can't see a reason to use it. JavasScript / Jquery is fine for 99% of clients.
It works very well for large software projects such as ours. We used to use Backbone, but it was difficult to scale.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Kumioko » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:55 pm

GorillaWarfare wrote:
WhoReallyCares wrote:PS. Checked out React earlier today, but can't see a reason to use it. JavasScript / Jquery is fine for 99% of clients.
It works very well for large software projects such as ours. We used to use Backbone, but it was difficult to scale.
I don't know a lot about these but React fixes at least some of the scalability problems backbone has.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by GorillaWarfare » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:40 am

Kumioko wrote:
GorillaWarfare wrote:
WhoReallyCares wrote:PS. Checked out React earlier today, but can't see a reason to use it. JavasScript / Jquery is fine for 99% of clients.
It works very well for large software projects such as ours. We used to use Backbone, but it was difficult to scale.
I don't know a lot about these but React fixes at least some of the scalability problems backbone has.
Thank you for articulating that so clearly!

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Kumioko » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:48 am

Oh yeah anytime, I know us men folks gotta break this IT stuff down for you ladies.
:innocent:

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by C&B » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:30 pm

:deadhorse:
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:15 pm

One of you tech geeks should figure out how to automatically build a database with an alphabetical list of Arbcom election voters of the past five years, including how many of these elections they voted in.

That would be a useful bit of information figuring out who are the WP true believers outside the usual 200 or so suspects from the drama pages.

I started doing this manually a couple years ago but I ran out of gas.

1,936 voters as of this writing with 3 days of voting to go — this will end up slightly north of 2,000 and will be the second most participated in Arbcom election ever.

How many of these are socks are anybody's guess.

RfB

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Dysklyver » Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:37 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:One of you tech geeks should figure out how to automatically build a database with an alphabetical list of Arbcom election voters of the past five years, including how many of these elections they voted in.
I have a program which does that which I have been using for RationalWiki, (For both the recent board and mod elections).
Randy from Boise wrote:I started doing this manually a couple years ago but I ran out of gas.
Where do you get the data from?
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by No Ledge » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:06 pm

Beeblebrox wrote:
WhoReallyCares wrote:
I've spent time in Boston [in addition to years in London, Bangkok and Singapore] and can easily spot the difference between those who live in metropolitan areas and little country bumpkins.
Speaking on behalf of those who left the urban death maze to deliberately live in a place where things are simpler: please keep thinking that way, it helps keep people like you in the city where you belong.
We don't agree about how everything that comes before Arbcom should be handled, but nonetheless I'm thinking of you right now and hope that your simpler world hasn't been shaken up too badly.
No coffee? OK, then maybe just a little appreciation for my work out here?

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Poetlister » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:52 pm

Dysklyver wrote:Where do you get the data from?
At one time, it was done by open voting, like an RfA. But now it's a secret ballot.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:41 pm

No Ledge wrote:We don't agree about how everything that comes before Arbcom should be handled, but nonetheless I'm thinking of you right now and hope that your simpler world hasn't been shaken up too badly.
Looks like he's okay, and while I don't think he actually lives in Anchorage (does he?), he probably felt a few fairly definite jolts down in Homer, I would imagine.

Still, as the old song goes, a person isn't safe anywhere these days!

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Kumioko » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:53 am

Poetlister wrote:
Dysklyver wrote:Where do you get the data from?
At one time, it was done by open voting, like an RfA. But now it's a secret ballot.
That's because if it's done in the open, people can see if the results have been manipulated. When it's secret, there are an unlimited amount of ways they can massage the numbers, ignore votes, miscount, double count, etc.

That also allows them to secretly Checkuser every single voter and find ways to remove any votes they don't like.

The whole process is a sham.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:57 am

Dysklyver wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:One of you tech geeks should figure out how to automatically build a database with an alphabetical list of Arbcom election voters of the past five years, including how many of these elections they voted in.
I have a program which does that which I have been using for RationalWiki, (For both the recent board and mod elections).
Randy from Boise wrote:I started doing this manually a couple years ago but I ran out of gas.
Where do you get the data from?
2013: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:S ... l/list/360

2014: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/392

2015: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/560

2016: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/612

2017: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/673

2018: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/710


RfB

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Jim » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:28 am

Kumioko wrote:That's because if it's done in the open, people can see if the results have been manipulated. When it's secret, there are an unlimited amount of ways they can massage the numbers, ignore votes, miscount, double count, etc. That also allows them to secretly Checkuser every single voter and find ways to remove any votes they don't like. The whole process is a sham.
So who, in your opinion, co-ordinates this ignoring, deliberately miscounting, double counting and removing of valid votes? I mean, presumably, if the result is fraudulently manipulated, then the point of the exercise must be to ensure that the 'right candidates' win - so who are the 'right candidates', and who decides that? I don't mean removal of sockpuppet votes, people voting twice with different accounts or invalid votes for other reasons they declare in policy, I mean what you said about "finding ways to remove votes they don't like" and "massaging the numbers" etc. - this must surely be done with a goal, so who decides the goal?

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:40 am

Jim wrote:
Kumioko wrote:That's because if it's done in the open, people can see if the results have been manipulated. When it's secret, there are an unlimited amount of ways they can massage the numbers, ignore votes, miscount, double count, etc. That also allows them to secretly Checkuser every single voter and find ways to remove any votes they don't like. The whole process is a sham.
So who, in your opinion, co-ordinates this ignoring, deliberately miscounting, double counting and removing of valid votes? I mean, presumably, if the result is fraudulently manipulated, then the point of the exercise must be to ensure that the 'right candidates' win - so who are the 'right candidates', and who decides that? I don't mean removal of sockpuppet votes, people voting twice with different accounts or invalid votes for other reasons they declare in policy, I mean what you said about "finding ways to remove votes they don't like" and "massaging the numbers" etc. - this must surely be done with a goal, so who decides the goal?
There is a three member election commission elected at the very start of the process.

t

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Jim » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:48 am

Randy from Boise wrote:
Jim wrote:
Kumioko wrote:That's because if it's done in the open, people can see if the results have been manipulated. When it's secret, there are an unlimited amount of ways they can massage the numbers, ignore votes, miscount, double count, etc. That also allows them to secretly Checkuser every single voter and find ways to remove any votes they don't like. The whole process is a sham.
So who, in your opinion, co-ordinates this ignoring, deliberately miscounting, double counting and removing of valid votes? I mean, presumably, if the result is fraudulently manipulated, then the point of the exercise must be to ensure that the 'right candidates' win - so who are the 'right candidates', and who decides that? I don't mean removal of sockpuppet votes, people voting twice with different accounts or invalid votes for other reasons they declare in policy, I mean what you said about "finding ways to remove votes they don't like" and "massaging the numbers" etc. - this must surely be done with a goal, so who decides the goal?
There is a three member election commission elected at the very start of the process.
I know - and separate scrutineers who check that the votes are valid - those latter guys are generally from outside en.wiki, I think, and get temporary checkuser rights for scrutineering with. That wasn't really my question though - Kumi seems to be saying that he thinks the result is manipulated outside these policy things to remove "votes they don't like" and "massage the result" - making the whole process "a sham" - so does that mean that the commissioners and scrutineers are just tools of the secret "deciding who should win" cabal?

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:12 am

No Ledge wrote:
Beeblebrox wrote:
WhoReallyCares wrote:
I've spent time in Boston [in addition to years in London, Bangkok and Singapore] and can easily spot the difference between those who live in metropolitan areas and little country bumpkins.
Speaking on behalf of those who left the urban death maze to deliberately live in a place where things are simpler: please keep thinking that way, it helps keep people like you in the city where you belong.
We don't agree about how everything that comes before Arbcom should be handled, but nonetheless I'm thinking of you right now and hope that your simpler world hasn't been shaken up too badly.
I appreciate that. It was scary as hell but no real damage in my area. Second false alarm tsunami evacuation in a year, but it beats dying.
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:57 am

Jim wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
Jim wrote:
Kumioko wrote:That's because if it's done in the open, people can see if the results have been manipulated. When it's secret, there are an unlimited amount of ways they can massage the numbers, ignore votes, miscount, double count, etc. That also allows them to secretly Checkuser every single voter and find ways to remove any votes they don't like. The whole process is a sham.
So who, in your opinion, co-ordinates this ignoring, deliberately miscounting, double counting and removing of valid votes? I mean, presumably, if the result is fraudulently manipulated, then the point of the exercise must be to ensure that the 'right candidates' win - so who are the 'right candidates', and who decides that? I don't mean removal of sockpuppet votes, people voting twice with different accounts or invalid votes for other reasons they declare in policy, I mean what you said about "finding ways to remove votes they don't like" and "massaging the numbers" etc. - this must surely be done with a goal, so who decides the goal?
There is a three member election commission elected at the very start of the process.
I know - and separate scrutineers who check that the votes are valid - those latter guys are generally from outside en.wiki, I think, and get temporary checkuser rights for scrutineering with. That wasn't really my question though - Kumi seems to be saying that he thinks the result is manipulated outside these policy things to remove "votes they don't like" and "massage the result" - making the whole process "a sham" - so does that mean that the commissioners and scrutineers are just tools of the secret "deciding who should win" cabal?
Pretty sure I never would've gotten on if it was all faked. And if arbcom has anything to do with faking it they certainly didn't let me in on it.
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Jim » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:22 am

Beeblebrox wrote:Pretty sure I never would've gotten on if it was all faked. And if arbcom has anything to do with faking it they certainly didn't let me in on it.
Well, you would say that, wouldn't you? :whistle:

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Unread post by Eric Corbett » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:29 am

Jim wrote:I know - and separate scrutineers who check that the votes are valid - those latter guys are generally from outside en.wiki, I think, and get temporary checkuser rights for scrutineering with. That wasn't really my question though - Kumi seems to be saying that he thinks the result is manipulated outside these policy things to remove "votes they don't like" and "massage the result" - making the whole process "a sham" - so does that mean that the commissioners and scrutineers are just tools of the secret "deciding who should win" cabal?
I thought the decision was made by Jimmy Wales, and that the voting was only for his guidance in making that decision?

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Poetlister » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:32 am

Randy from Boise wrote:
Dysklyver wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:One of you tech geeks should figure out how to automatically build a database with an alphabetical list of Arbcom election voters of the past five years, including how many of these elections they voted in.
I have a program which does that which I have been using for RationalWiki, (For both the recent board and mod elections).
Randy from Boise wrote:I started doing this manually a couple years ago but I ran out of gas.
Where do you get the data from?
2013: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:S ... l/list/360

2014: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/392

2015: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/560

2016: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/612

2017: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/673

2018: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/710

RfB
A list of people who voted is not necessarily a guide to "true believers". Many people, especially sockpuppeteers, may be voting to undermine the system.
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Dysklyver » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:10 pm

Eric Corbett wrote:
Jim wrote:I know - and separate scrutineers who check that the votes are valid - those latter guys are generally from outside en.wiki, I think, and get temporary checkuser rights for scrutineering with. That wasn't really my question though - Kumi seems to be saying that he thinks the result is manipulated outside these policy things to remove "votes they don't like" and "massage the result" - making the whole process "a sham" - so does that mean that the commissioners and scrutineers are just tools of the secret "deciding who should win" cabal?
I thought the decision was made by Jimmy Wales, and that the voting was only for his guidance in making that decision?
No it's entirely based on voting.
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Eric Corbett » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:16 pm

Dysklyver wrote:
Eric Corbett wrote:
Jim wrote:I know - and separate scrutineers who check that the votes are valid - those latter guys are generally from outside en.wiki, I think, and get temporary checkuser rights for scrutineering with. That wasn't really my question though - Kumi seems to be saying that he thinks the result is manipulated outside these policy things to remove "votes they don't like" and "massage the result" - making the whole process "a sham" - so does that mean that the commissioners and scrutineers are just tools of the secret "deciding who should win" cabal?
I thought the decision was made by Jimmy Wales, and that the voting was only for his guidance in making that decision?
No it's entirely based on voting.
Are you certain about that? It never used to be.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by C&B » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:22 pm

It was both. Then:
The original Arbitration Committee was appointed in 2004 by Jimbo Wales, primarily chosen from people who volunteered to help with the mediation and arbitration processes. Since then, arbitrators have been appointed based on the results of annual advisory elections. In the past, Jimbo has not considered himself bound by the results of the elections and has stated that he will not appoint candidates with less than 50% support. Nevertheless, he has generally appointed arbitrators from among the candidates with the highest percentages of positive votes. Historically, users with past experience were sometimes re-appointed for continuity, and vacancies arising from mid-term resignations were sometimes filled by extending the terms of other sitting arbitrators.


Now:
While Jimbo still holds reserve powers over the committee, the established community election process now selects committee members directly
Per this.
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Eric Corbett » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:33 pm

Does that really change anything very much, except that Jimmy no longer makes a song and dance about the new incumbents? It seems to me that his "reserve powers" still make the election results conditional on his approval.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by No Ledge » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:06 pm

Well, ultimately the Wikimedia Foundation board of directors holds the power to pull the plug on anyone on Wikipedia. I suppose if a cabal of arbitrators were elected who were perceived to be so revolutionary as to pose a threat to the Foundation, they could not only deny them their seats but they could also SanFranBan them all.

And Jimmy could probably unilaterally do this subject to a rubber-stamp from the board, the majority holding hand-picked, appointed with Jimmy's approval, seats -- not community-elected seats.

That is, as long as he holds his position within the Foundation. They could kick him out of the house, but the only scenario where that's likely is, ahem, some behavior akin to Papa's or Harvey's. So far, nothing he's done has ever risen to that level.

Of course, any stepping in and vetoing decisions made by the community comes with considerable consequences and blowback, so it's something that will never be done lightly, I trust.
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by C&B » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:31 pm

It's also probable that the AC, having so long run its own affairs, would resign en mass in protest of the interference; this would make any such action by JW more problematic than anything it was trying to resolve.
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Eric Corbett » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:38 pm

C&B wrote:It's also probable that the AC, having so long run its own affairs, would resign en mass in protest of the interference; this would make any such action by JW more problematic than anything it was trying to resolve.
I expect that at least some would, but the lust for power runs deep.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by SixOClock » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:39 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:One of you tech geeks should figure out how to automatically build a database with an alphabetical list of Arbcom election voters of the past five years, including how many of these elections they voted in.

RfB
Here you are, https://paste.ee/p/Bt6pv

Now with account block: https://paste.ee/p/egXW5
Last edited by SixOClock on Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Kumioko » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:44 pm

Jim wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
Jim wrote:
Kumioko wrote:That's because if it's done in the open, people can see if the results have been manipulated. When it's secret, there are an unlimited amount of ways they can massage the numbers, ignore votes, miscount, double count, etc. That also allows them to secretly Checkuser every single voter and find ways to remove any votes they don't like. The whole process is a sham.
So who, in your opinion, co-ordinates this ignoring, deliberately miscounting, double counting and removing of valid votes? I mean, presumably, if the result is fraudulently manipulated, then the point of the exercise must be to ensure that the 'right candidates' win - so who are the 'right candidates', and who decides that? I don't mean removal of sockpuppet votes, people voting twice with different accounts or invalid votes for other reasons they declare in policy, I mean what you said about "finding ways to remove votes they don't like" and "massaging the numbers" etc. - this must surely be done with a goal, so who decides the goal?
There is a three member election commission elected at the very start of the process.
I know - and separate scrutineers who check that the votes are valid - those latter guys are generally from outside en.wiki, I think, and get temporary checkuser rights for scrutineering with. That wasn't really my question though - Kumi seems to be saying that he thinks the result is manipulated outside these policy things to remove "votes they don't like" and "massage the result" - making the whole process "a sham" - so does that mean that the commissioners and scrutineers are just tools of the secret "deciding who should win" cabal?
There are a lot of ways secret ballots interfere. First, even if they don't, the ability to manipulate the outcome is still there. Secondly, everyone knows their accounts get CUed when they vote, so if you edit from large networks like universities, you could get associated to someone else easily so many may not risk it.

Also, in saying it's a sham, its insiders that get selected and mostly insiders that select them. Look at who's voting, it's a list of who's who of the biggest dicks on Wikioedia barring s few outsiders. Most have been or are currently on the arbcom. They think alike, they act alike, they all want to maintain the house POV that helped them in control and in power, those who say they want to change it quickly learn it would be wiki political suicide to do so. Etc. The arbcom doesn't decide cases on what's good for the project or the community. In fact they dont even pick the cases that way. It's all about what's best for them and their inner circle...the cabal if you want to call it that.they make sure admins are treated better and editors in their place!

It's a big part of why it's such a toxic workplace. The people in control like the admins and arbs have no oversight except themselves.
Last edited by Kumioko on Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by C&B » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:53 pm

SixOClock wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:One of you tech geeks should figure out how to automatically build a database with an alphabetical list of Arbcom election voters of the past five years, including how many of these elections they voted in.

RfB
Here you are, https://paste.ee/p/Bt6pv
Cool first post :) :welcome:
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Dysklyver » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:11 pm

C&B wrote:
SixOClock wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:One of you tech geeks should figure out how to automatically build a database with an alphabetical list of Arbcom election voters of the past five years, including how many of these elections they voted in.

RfB
Here you are, https://paste.ee/p/Bt6pv
Cool first post :) :welcome:
That was quick, thanks.
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by SixOClock » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:42 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Dysklyver wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:One of you tech geeks should figure out how to automatically build a database with an alphabetical list of Arbcom election voters of the past five years, including how many of these elections they voted in.
I have a program which does that which I have been using for RationalWiki, (For both the recent board and mod elections).
Randy from Boise wrote:I started doing this manually a couple years ago but I ran out of gas.
Where do you get the data from?
2013: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:S ... l/list/360

2014: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/392

2015: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/560

2016: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/612

2017: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/673

2018: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/710


RfB
There are older, but on enwiki instead.

2012: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:S ... l/list/259

2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:S ... l/list/240

2010: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:S ... l/list/130

2009: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:S ... ll/list/80

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:33 pm

SixOClock wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:One of you tech geeks should figure out how to automatically build a database with an alphabetical list of Arbcom election voters of the past five years, including how many of these elections they voted in.

RfB
Here you are, https://paste.ee/p/Bt6pv

Now with account block: https://paste.ee/p/egXW5
Wow, very impressive, thanks.

I'm struck by how many voters there have been (6218). I would have guessed about half that.

Is there any easy way to generate the same set as a database (or an Excel document) with the account name only in one field and a tally of total votes (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) in a second field?

Welcome to WPO, by the way.

tim

P.S. In addition to being a mechanism to identify committed Wikipedians, this also could be a tool used to identify socks, who are likely to be first-time voters. The way I would do that is to generate a list of voters 2013-2017 and then compare that to a list of 2018 voters to identify first time 2018 voters. That would be a list of 500 or whatever names that could be individually scrutinized.

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Dysklyver » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:45 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:P.S. In addition to being a mechanism to identify committed Wikipedians, this also could be a tool used to identify socks, who are likely to be first-time voters. The way I would do that is to generate a list of voters 2013-2017 and then compare that to a list of 2018 voters to identify first time 2018 voters. That would be a list of 500 or whatever names that could be individually scrutinized.
That is actually a pretty good idea, it would at least save the scrutineers some work.
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by SixOClock » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:15 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:Is there any easy way to generate the same set as a database (or an Excel document) with the account name only in one field and a tally of total votes (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) in a second field?
CSV: https://paste.ee/p/PiTYV

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Poetlister » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:01 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:P.S. In addition to being a mechanism to identify committed Wikipedians, this also could be a tool used to identify socks, who are likely to be first-time voters. The way I would do that is to generate a list of voters 2013-2017 and then compare that to a list of 2018 voters to identify first time 2018 voters. That would be a list of 500 or whatever names that could be individually scrutinized.
Some first time voters would be peiple who have been around for some time and have only just accumulated sufficient votes to be eligible. Maybe they're slowly ripened socks, but quite possibly most are genuine.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:30 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
Dysklyver wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:One of you tech geeks should figure out how to automatically build a database with an alphabetical list of Arbcom election voters of the past five years, including how many of these elections they voted in.
I have a program which does that which I have been using for RationalWiki, (For both the recent board and mod elections).
Randy from Boise wrote:I started doing this manually a couple years ago but I ran out of gas.
Where do you get the data from?
2013: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:S ... l/list/360

2014: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/392

2015: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/560

2016: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/612

2017: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/673

2018: https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... l/list/710

RfB
A list of people who voted is not necessarily a guide to "true believers". Many people, especially sockpuppeteers, may be voting to undermine the system.
A list of people who voted 4 or 5 times in 5 years is doubtlessly a good marker for true believers.

A list of those who voted 1 time only is probably a good marker for sockpuppets.

RfB

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:32 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:P.S. In addition to being a mechanism to identify committed Wikipedians, this also could be a tool used to identify socks, who are likely to be first-time voters. The way I would do that is to generate a list of voters 2013-2017 and then compare that to a list of 2018 voters to identify first time 2018 voters. That would be a list of 500 or whatever names that could be individually scrutinized.
Some first time voters would be peiple who have been around for some time and have only just accumulated sufficient votes to be eligible. Maybe they're slowly ripened socks, but quite possibly most are genuine.
I completely agree with that. But a stack of 500 to investigate is much more easy to manage than a stack of 2,100 to investigate.

The 2018 election has now topped the 2,000 voter mark and is thus the second most widely participated in election ever, despite Arbcom's diminished importance in the minds of many.

RfB

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:04 pm

SixOClock wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:Is there any easy way to generate the same set as a database (or an Excel document) with the account name only in one field and a tally of total votes (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) in a second field?
CSV: https://paste.ee/p/PiTYV
Wow, thanks so much.

VERY interesting... There are only 345 editors out of the pool of 6228 (5.5%) who voted in 4 or 5 elections out of the last 5. That's WAY the hell lower than I would have guessed. Bumping the cut line to 3 votes out of the last 5 elections only brings the count of "true believers" to 757 (12.2%) -- which remains a minority of your typical 2,000-ish voter election.

In short, it is simply NOT the same group of people voting again and again in these elections, but a reservoir with almost equal inflows and outflows.

This further indicates to me a much higher degree of randomness in the participation than I expected (with the logical corollary that my predictions of outcome have been really, really lucky rather than a skilled reading of the tea leaves left by the insiders).* Alternatively, the level of sockpuppetry and multiple voting by insiders is higher than anyone ever anticipated.

Really interesting, I'm blown away by this finding.

Here are the 3-or-more-time voters, if anyone cares...
14GTR
1ForTheMoney
28bytes
333-blue
4nn1l2
A. Parrot
Acalamari
Ad Orientem
Adrian232
AGK
Aircorn
Ajpolino
Ajraddatz
Alanrhobson
Alanscottwalker
AlasdairEdits
Alcohkid
Alexbrn
Alf.laylah.wa.laylah
Alphapeta
Altamel
Alvin Seville
Amand Keultjes
Amerias
Amortias
Amorymeltzer
Anadessma
Anarchyte
And Adoil Descended
Andreas Philopater
AndreasAt
Andrew Clark
Andrew Davidson
Andrew69.
AniMate
Ankurc.17
Ansh666
Anthony Bradbury
Anthonyhcole
AntiCompositeNumber
Appable
Arcillaroja
ArglebargleIV
Arjayay
Arkon
Armbrust
Artichoker
ArtifexMayhem
Arunvrparavur
Asiaticus
Astristul
Athomeinkobe
Atlantic306
Atsme
Aude
Auditguy
Aunva6
AustralianRupert
Avraham
Az1568
Babymissfortune
Bagoto
Bammesk
Banedon
Bbb23
BD2412
BDD
Beagel
Bearsca
Beeblebrox
Beetstra
Begoon
Bencherlite
Benimation
Berean Hunter
Bertaut
BethNaught
Beyond My Ken
Biblioworm
Bigpoliticsfan
Bishonen
BJ Axel
Black Falcon
Black Kite
Blackmane
Bloom6132
Bluerasberry
Bo Basil
Boing! said Zebedee
Bokmanrocks01
BorgHunter
Boson
Bradv
Brewcrewer
Brocooli
BU Rob13
Buistr
Bulverton
BusterD
Ca2james
Cactus.man
CactusWriter
Calidum
Callanecc
Calmer Waters
CambridgeBayWeather
Cameron11598
CAPTAIN RAJU
Carcharoth
Cardamon
Carlojoseph14
Carnildo
Carrite
Carsrac
Casliber
Catlemur
Cbyneorne
Cenarium
Centaur271188
Ceoil
Charitwo
Checkingfax
Chess
Choess
Chris Chittleborough
Chris troutman
Christophe Krief
Clayoquot
CLCStudent
Cmr08
Collect
Conifer
Coretheapple
Cote d'Azur
Courcelles
Crow
Cryptic
Crystallizedcarbon
CT Cooper
Cuchullain
Cwmhiraeth
Cyberpower678
Cyfraw
Czar
DaGizza
Dahliarose
Dalba
Dan653
Daniel Case
Dank
Darouet
DarthBotto
DatGuy
Dave Peters
DaveG12345
Davey2010
David Fuchs
David in DC
Dawn Renshaw
Dcheagle
Deb
Debouch
Debresser
DeltaQuad
Dennis Brown
Deor
DerHexer
Deryck Chan
Deskana
Devopam
DGG
DHeyward
Diannaa
Dicklyon
Dimadick
Dispe
Doc James
Doncram
Don'tDropThatTotoro
DoRD
Dostojewskij
Doug Weller
Doug4
Dr.K.
Dream Focus
Dreamyshade
DrKay
Drmies
DVdm
Dweller
Ealdgyth
East718
Ed Gris
EdChem
EdJohnston
Edmund Patrick
EEng
Elonka
Eman235
Emir of Wikipedia
Enterprisey
Érico
Espresso Addict
Euryalus
EvergreenFir
Everyking
Evolution and evolvability
Extua
Fadesga

Fakirbakir
Fastily
Fences and windows
Fench
Ferahgo the Assassin
Ferret
Filelakeshoe
Finlay McWalter
Fish and karate
Fitnr
Fitzcarmalan
Flixtey
FloNight
Floquenbeam
Fluffernutter
Folantin
Foxj
Fram
Full Rune
Fyddlestix
Fylbecatulous
G S Palmer
G41rn8
Gadfium
Gag0409
Gamaliel
Gandydancer
Ganellia
Garry Denke
Gejyspa
GeneralizationsAreBad
Geogene
Gerda Arendt
Giantdevilfish
Giants2008
GiggsIsLegend
Glane23
Gloss
-glove-
Gluons12
Go Phightins!
Gobautista
Gobonobo
Godsy
Gog the Mild
GorillaWarfare
Govindaharihari
Gråbergs Gråa Sång
Graham87
GreenReaper
Gricehead
Guerillero
Guettarda
Gulumeemee
Guy1890
GWFrog
HakanIST
Hamiltonstone
Harrias
Hasteur
Hawkeye7
Heimstern
HiDrNick
Himalayanbullet
Hipocrite
Hiwilms
HJ Mitchell
HMSLavender
Hobit
HOT WUK
Huldra
Hullaballoo Wolfowitz
Huon
Hut 8.5
Hydronium Hydroxide
I am One of Many
I JethroBT
Iazyges
Icem4k
Idyllic press
ImperfectlyInformed
Intothatdarkness
Ionel141
Iridescent
Ivanvector
Iveránn
Izno
J3Mrs
Jackmcbarn
Jaguar
Jakob Suckale
JamesLucas
Jandalhandler
Jasper Deng
JB82
Jc3s5h
Jc86035
Jcc
Jclemens
Jd2718
Jdforrester
Jehochman
Jetstreamer
Jgmimmanuel
Jianhui67
Jim.henderson
Jimfbleak
JimRenge
JJMC89
JMHamo
JMichael22
Jni
Jnorton7558
Joe Roe
Joffeloff
Johanna-Hypatia
John
John Carter
John Cline
John from Idegon
John Vandenberg
Johnbod
JohnCD
Johnuniq
Jo-Jo Eumerus
Jonathunder
Jonclay
Jorm
Joshua Jonathan
Joshualouie711
JPG-GR

Juliancolton
Julietdeltalima
Jusfiq
Justlettersandnumbers
Jytdog
JzG
Kablammo
Kaldari
Kalogeropoulos
Kanguole
Kansas Bear
Katafore
Kate Phaye
Kcowolf
Keilana
Kelapstick
Kevin
Kfogel
KIENGIR
Kierzek
King of Hearts
Kingofaces43
Kmccook
Koorosh1234
Kopeikins
KrakatoaKatie
Kraxler
Ks0stm
KSFT
KTC
Kudpung
Kurtis
Kuru
Kusma
L235
Lankiveil
LauraHale
Lawrence142002
Lawrencedepe
Lawrencekhoo
Ldblsatin
Leaky caldron
Lectonar
Legoktm
Lepricavark
L'Eremita
LFaraone
LilyKitty
LindsayH
Linkqer
Literaturegeek
Littleolive oil
Locke Cole
Lord Bromblemore
Lord Roem
Lordgilman
Loriendrew
Mackensen
Maclean25
Mailer diablo
Majora
Malcolmxl5
Mandarax
Mangoe
Maproom
Marcsin
Mark Arsten
MarshalN20
Martinevans123
Martinp
MastCell
Maxim
MB298
MBisanz
Mccapra
Mdann52
Mduvekot
MeanMotherJr
Megalibrarygirl
MelanieN
MelbourneStar
Melcous
Menchi
Mendaliv
Mewulwe
Michael Barera
MichaelMaggs
Miffy900
Miguel Escopeta
Mike Christie
Mike Linksvayer
Mike V
Milomir jovanovic
Miniapolis
Minimac
Mirokado
Mjeromee
Mkdw
MLauba
Mohamedhp
Moishe Rosenbaum
Mojo Hand
Mojoworker
MONGO
Montanabw
Moriori
Moxy
Mr Ernie
Mr rnddude
Mr. Guye
Mr. Stradivarius
Mr.Unknown
MRD2014
Mrjulesd
Mrmoustache14
MrOllie
Mrschimpf
MrX
Ms Sarah Welch
Msalt
MSGJ
MusikAnimal
MUSIKVEREIN
Mx. Granger
Mxcatania
My name is not dave
My very best wishes
Mz7
MZMcBride
Nathan
Natuur12
NDSteve10
NE Ent
NeilN
Neljack
Neonorange
Neutrality
Nev1
Newyorkbrad
Nicco18
Nick
Nickrds09
Nihonjoe
Nikkimaria
NinjaRobotPirate
Nissimnanach
No such user
Noel baran
Noirua
Norozco1
North Shoreman
NorthBySouthBaranof
Not Sure
Noyster
Nsk92
Nthep
NuclearWarfare
Number 57
Oaktree b
Ocaasi
Odysseus1479
OlEnglish
Opabinia regalis
Openskye
Orderinchaos
Osplace
Ott2
Ozzie10aaaa
Paine Ellsworth
PamD
Paparazzo Presents
Patar knight
Patient Zero
Paul August
Paul Erik
Peacemaker67
Pedro
PeterTheFourth
Pgallert
Pharaoh of the Wizards
PhilKnight
Pi.1415926535
Pine
PizzaMan
Pldx1
Pmj
Pne
Politrukki
Poltair
Ponyo
PresN
Psychonaut
Pudeo
Purplebackpack89
QEDK
Quiddity
QuiteUnusual
Rachel Helps (BYU)
RafaelPPascual
Randykitty
RatatoskJones
Ravenswing
Raymond
Razr Nation
Rcsprinter123
RegentsPark
Regushee
RepublicaNegrense
-revi
RexxS
Reyk
RGloucester
Rhododendrites
Richard Hawkins
Richard Nowell
RichardWeiss
RickinBaltimore
Rigel1
RightCowLeftCoast
Ripberger
Risker
Ritchie333
Rivertorch
RNLockwood
Robert McClenon
Roger Davies
Roland.h.bueb
Rosiestep
Rosser1954
Rossj81
Royalbroil
Rpclod
Rschen7754
S
Sadads
Sagaciousphil
Salix alba
SaltySeas
Salvidrim!
Salvio giuliano
Sam Blacketer
Sam11333
Samee
Samsara
Samwalton9
Sandgem Addict
Sandstein
SandyGeorgia
SchroCat
Scribolt
Seasider7
Seraphimblade
Sergecross73
Seth Finkelstein
Shellwood
SheriffIsInTown
Shotgun pete
Shoy
Shwangtianyuan
Siawase
Sideways713
Sigmundur
SilkTork
Silver hr
Sir Joseph
SirFozzie
Sj
Sjakkalle
Skullers
Slick1nz
Slightsmile
Sluzzelin
Smallbones
Smartse
SmokeyJoe
Snek01
Snowolf
Snuge purveyor
Soap
Softlavender
Someguy1221
Soni
SoWhy
SpacemanSpiff
Spartaz
SPECIFICO
Spencer
Sperril
Srichart4
Staberinde
Staceydolxx
Stalinsunnykvj
Stanistani
Starblind
StarryGrandma
Steel1943
Stephan Schulz
Stephen
Stepojevac
Steven Walling
StevenJ81
SteveStrummer
Storkk
StringRay
StringTheory11
Strobilomyces
Student7
Stwalkerster
Sunrise
Supasheep
SuperHamster
SuperMarioMan
Surturz
Susuman77
Swarm
SylviaStanley
Tadpole256
TastyPoutine
Tavix
Tazerdadog
Tech77
Tex
The Banner
The Blade of the Northern Lights
The Earwig
The ed17
The Herald
The Interior
The Land
The Rambling Man
The Sports Gnome
The Traditionalist
TheCatalyst31
ThePlatypusofDoom
TheSoccerBoy
Thibbs
Thincat
Thine Antique Pen
Thomson200
Thryduulf
Timotheus Canens
TJH2018
Tlhslobus
TomStar81
Toni Pecoraro
Tony1
TonyBallioni
Townlake
TParis
TracyMcClark
Traveling Man
Tropicalkitty
True Pagan Warrior
Tryptofish
Tucoxn
TwoTwoHello
Tybomb124
Ubaldocoldagelli
Ueutyi
Uldis s
Ultraexactzz
Unscintillating
User:1989
User:78.26
User:97198
Utcursch
UY Scuti
Valoem
Vanamonde93
Versageek
Vincentkandas
Vituzzu
Voceditenore
Vogone
Volunteer Marek
Wasell
WayneBu
Wbm1058
Wee Curry Monster
Wehwalt
WereSpielChequers
Wiae
Widr
Wikirictor
WilliamJE
Willking1979
Winkelvi
Winner 42
WinTakeAll
Wiz9999
Wizardman
WJBscribe
Worm That Turned
Wpollard
Writ Keeper
Xanthomelanoussprog
Xaosflux
Xenophrenic
Xymmax
Yahia.Mokhtar
YellowFratello
Yetisyny
Yjmb29
Ykraps
Ymblanter
Yngvadottir
Yoshi24517
Yulia Romero
Yulun5566
Yunshui
Zanhe
Zeete
ZettaComposer
Zezen
Zzuuzz
tim


* I first toss out all the non-administrators and then parse results of past elections, with only half an eye to certain key voters' guides. If participation is in fact largely random, this methodology should not work.

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Bezdomni
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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by Bezdomni » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:21 am

I noticed the complete absence of a few interesting names on the original list. I was also particularly surprised that Bishzilla had only voted twice.

That is intriguing data.
los auberginos

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Re: WP Sado-Masochism Festival — It's 2018 Arbcom Election T

Unread post by No Ledge » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:40 am

Bezdomni wrote:I noticed the complete absence of a few interesting names on the original list. I was also particularly surprised that Bishzilla had only voted twice.

That is intriguing data.
Bishonen voted 3 times -- I trust not in the same years as Bishzilla!
No coffee? OK, then maybe just a little appreciation for my work out here?

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