What's going on with Drmies's and MoiraMoira's accounts?

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:00 am

I put it in this section, but sorry, this account is not run by it's owner. It is runt in exacte the same way as the MoiraMoira account. The edit patron is exacte the same, the way of handeling is the same, it is runt by the same persons who are running the Moira account. Drmies is not sitting day and night behind his computer, and now I understand why his username is on all the three fora topranking in the most negative way. This account is run and ruined by the same idiots what trolled me out on WPNL and now I understand why I was almost sure Natuur12 is a sock of Drmies. Because he is in this complex way, because the accounts are the same. It is only a matter of using a other log in. And you have seen the log in mistake of Ymnens on the Moira account. And sorry to say, we all know now who Drmies is, and this is not the account of a man in his position! It is fraude. You won't believe it, but Ymnes is in this way a powerful sysop on WPEN!

Dysklyver · Unread post by **Dysklyver** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:08 am

You need to speak with George Galloway about this.

Who knows, the Kremlin might feature it on the news!

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:12 am

Dysklyver wrote:You need to speak with George Galloway about this.

Who knows, the Kremlin might feature it on the news!

It is. The edit patron is EXACTE the same, the way of behaving too, and it is clear Drmies and Natuur12 are socks. And do you really believe persons as Moira and Drmies have the time and interest to sit day and night behind a computer? Hunting for this kind of nonsense? People in there position? I mean of course the original owners of the account. By the way, is it not run in our European time zone?

Bezdomni · Unread post by **Bezdomni** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:00 pm

In the days of Mr. Kohs, you might have been banned by the Grammar Police. (Cf. Capitalism & Schizophrenia, [§])

it's = it is; it has
its = inanimate singular possessive (adjective/determiner)

It is admittedly confusing, since to speak of your theories to a third party, I would write about "Graaf's theories".

I saw two accounts working together on pages about Aruba in what you posted on WS recently (about nl-wp). Here I'm afraid your claim is again made without evidence.

I think it's much more effective to provide evidence and those who end up discrediting the (forum / off-wiki world) posting random accusations aren't really helping. Now, who knows?, maybe it'll all turn out to be true... maybe Drmies = MoiraMoira = Natuur12 = Romaine = Ymnes = Volunteer Marek and there is a phone number you can call and just press 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 to speak with your preferred pseudonym, but for the moment, I -- & maybe even "we" -- think you need to find (much) more compelling evidence.

A more compelling title for a thread about champion-indeffer & slander-snipper Drmies might have been:

This account is running its owner.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:10 pm

At the moment you learn yourself without any education to write perfect Dutch without grammar mistakes we discuss this subject further. And of course it is A HUGE SCANDAL I can tell my story and what I have found out in my one language after almost two decades wikipedia. Shall we continue in Greek or in German, what do you prefer?

Bezdomni · Unread post by **Bezdomni** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:13 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:At the moment you learn yourself without any education to write perfect Dutch without grammar mistakes we discuss this subject further. And of course it is A HUGE SCANDAL I can tell my story and what I have found out in my one language. Shall we continue in Greek, or in German, what do you prefer?

Krèyol.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:16 pm

Bezdomni wrote:
Graaf Statler wrote:At the moment you learn yourself without any education to write perfect Dutch without grammar mistakes we discuss this subject further. And of course it is A HUGE SCANDAL I can tell my story and what I have found out in my one language. Shall we continue in Greek, or in German, what do you prefer?
Krèyol.

Den inne Ellinka fille mou. Me singorite. Emoun pente chronia stin Ellada olla masi, (Or: Iga pente chronia Ellada) sigora melao Ellnika!

Funny, Goole translate change it in Greek! Δεν ιννε Ελληνκά φιλλε μου. Με σηγορητε. Εμάνα πέντε χρόνια Ελλάδα ολλα μασί, σιγορα μιλάω Ελλνικα! But can't translate it! But it is real Greek, is there a Greek speaking person here?

Bezdomni · Unread post by **Bezdomni** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:38 pm

You asked this and it was answered affirmatively on August 10th, Graaf.

GlwnDwr wrote:
Graaf Statler wrote: Is there someone else here who speaks modern Greek by the way?
I do more or less.

Sometimes I think all-the-voluble-ones should ask ourselves how much we are run by our accounts.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:05 pm

A long time, after a typical posting of Romaine on the Wikischim account I started to lock if some accounts where not run by more than one person.... And if the edits where realistic. After the tremendous Romaine trolling on Wikiquote. Romaine for instance was and on a meeting in Utrecht once, and editing on his account every two minutes in the same time. I am good in multitasked was his answer when I asked him about it. So, Romaine does't stop editing if he is traveling by train from Brussels to utrecht, if he goes to the toilet, if he is giving instructions about who to edit wikipedia. No, Romaine is a wonder editor. And the same happens on the Moira account and the Drmies account. These accounts start at 8.00 central European time and edit every two minutes all day long. And it was funny to see Ymnes logged in, because the Moira account behaves itself in the typical Ymnes style. And that Drmies account too. Again, I don't buy this good fait crap, this stinks! It is trolling, and I even think Romaine is behind this. He is extreem clever with computers, and extreme good in in no time composing articles out of secondary sources. By copy pasting. The same way as Ymnes works. And I have the feeling Ming is his brother, ahum. Seen his extreme reactions in my direction often. Am I right Ming?

Dysklyver · Unread post by **Dysklyver** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:57 pm

Of course if you find an impossible set of edits you should consider if someone is simply using a bot.

Plug the edits into the bot, leave it going, it's technically possible to schedule all sort of edits this way.

I can't really comment further on this instance because my knowledge of WPNL is limited.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:23 pm

Dysklyver wrote:Of course if you find an impossible set of edits you should consider if someone is simply using a bot.

Plug the edits into the bot, leave it going, it's technically possible to schedule all sort of edits this way.

I can't really comment further on this instance because my knowledge of WPNL is limited.

It is absolute clear on both accounts, the MoiraMoira and the Drmies account are the run by the same bot. And it is also clear the behaving of Moira and Drmies is about the same. And because for sure Ymnes was editing on the Moira account, he just continued his edits from the Ymnes account there, I am quite sure I know why our Dutch Drmies is one of the favoured items on every critical forum.....

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:14 pm

Dysklyver wrote: I can't really comment further on this instance because my knowledge of WPNL is limited.

Dont worry, you aint missing anything.

Besides there are plenty of admins and those with advanced permissions who read this board, if they honestly thought it was legit, a quiet checkuser would be run. Multiple people using the same account is trivially easy to spot both at a technical and behaviour level. About the only time it passes for long is when multiple (usually a couple) people in the same property use the same machine. Its why wiki-couples are treated as one person.

Ming · Unread post by **Ming** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:55 pm

The only thing that is absolutely clear to Ming is that MoiraMoira, back on the English WP, filed a sockpuppet report on your buddy Paul which, gosh, turned out to be founded. Ming supposes that Ming should also take Flashy Gordon (T-C-L) as some sort of a tribute, especially considering the comment on this edit.

Dysklyver · Unread post by **Dysklyver** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:03 pm

Anroth wrote:About the only time it passes for long is when multiple (usually a couple) people in the same property use the same machine. Its why wiki-couples are treated as one person.

^ This can be a problem sometimes.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:14 pm

Ming wrote:The only thing that is absolutely clear to Ming is that MoiraMoira, back on the English WP, filed a sockpuppet report on your buddy Paul which, gosh, turned out to be founded. Ming supposes that Ming should also take Flashy Gordon (T-C-L) as some sort of a tribute, especially considering the comment on this edit.

Ming, this has nothing to do with "my buddy Paul" but with two accounts who are using the same bot! Or are you blind? You are a real computer person, so I am sure you notice that too. And for your information, Moira, or the account, has doxxed me. On purpose, because I hadn't seen it but got later a email of the Wikischim account! Ever heard of the Terms of Use Ming?

It's all shit you are spreading man, and is Romaine your wiki brother? A simple yes or no will do.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:21 pm

Anroth wrote:
Dysklyver wrote: I can't really comment further on this instance because my knowledge of WPNL is limited.
Dont worry, you aint missing anything.

Besides there are plenty of admins and those with advanced permissions who read this board, if they honestly thought it was legit, a quiet checkuser would be run. Multiple people using the same account is trivially easy to spot both at a technical and behaviour level. About the only time it passes for long is when multiple (usually a couple) people in the same property use the same machine. Its why wiki-couples are treated as one person.

They have no time! No they don't have! Look here, use a robot.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... d=52137809

They only try to get each other blocked! And why? Because of Moira! I am not sure if it are 8 or 9 Moira connected block request are.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overleg_W ... MoiraMoira

It is one big chaos and fight. It is now for day's going on, all around the account Moira.

Ming · Unread post by **Ming** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:16 pm

Graaf, at least keep straight that MoiraMoira and Moira are different accounts.

Finally, by accident, I think I have stumbled across what the heck is going on here, or at least some comments about it. It helped a great deal, Graaf, that you could put your complaint in a single sentence, even if I can't find right off where MM did this. But I've looked at Drmies's and MoiraMoira's English contribs, and either someone does a good job of sounding like two different people, or it's two different people. And Drmies Dutch contributions are strikingly less idiomatic than most: Bing Translate turns them into much better English than others, whereas MM's English contributions have a slight "off" quality to them, and never mind the complete difference in tone. Perhaps they work with each other: Drmies uses Twinkle copiously to do nerdy admin stuff, but it isn't clear that MM does the same.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:27 pm

Ming wrote:Graaf, at least keep straight that MoiraMoira and Moira are different accounts.

Finally, by accident, I think I have stumbled across what the heck is going on here, or at least some comments about it. It helped a great deal, Graaf, that you could put your complaint in a single sentence, even if I can't find right off where MM did this. But I've looked at Drmies's and MoiraMoira's English contribs, and either someone does a good job of sounding like two different people, or it's two different people. And Drmies Dutch contributions are strikingly less idiomatic than most: Bing Translate turns them into much better English than others, whereas MM's English contributions have a slight "off" quality to them, and never mind the complete difference in tone. Perhaps they work with each other: Drmies uses Twinkle copiously to do nerdy admin stuff, but it isn't clear that MM does the same.

Ming........ you didn't answer two times my question, what i appreciate, because otherwise you was lying. Does't matter, Romaine, you was always a kind of family. That was not what I was claiming, yes for sure the persons, the original owners are two different persons. It is about the obvious bot edits what are the same, same style, same intervals, and the typical Ymnes bahaving now and then. And sorry, it is proven Ymnes edits on the MM account.

What a fight, what a chaos om WP by the way. So, you was also Arb on WPEN? Just like you was with the Blueknight account on WPNL?

PS I seldom agree with Elly, but now she is right. "wat we elkaar aandoen hier, is een dieptepunt." It is absolute, absolute hitting the rock bottom what happens there around our MM on WPNL.

Ming · Unread post by **Ming** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 9:48 pm

Look, Graaf, Ming had to look up Romaine to have a clue what you were talking about. No, of course Ming is not someone involved in a school editing project in Maastricht. Nor is Ming anyone else that anyone has ever speculated that Ming might be. Ming has said, several times, that Ming isn't an admin.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:01 pm

Ming wrote:Look, Graaf, Ming had to look up Romaine to have a clue what you were talking about. No, of course Ming is not someone involved in a school editing project in Maastricht. Nor is Ming anyone else that anyone has ever speculated that Ming might be. Ming has said, several times, that Ming isn't an admin.

Thanks for your answer MIng! And now back to the subject.
What about that bot what is running on both the MoiraMoira and Drmies account? Do you have a explanation therefore? Or do you want to deny on both accounts is a almost identical bot running? You are te computerman isn't it, so you are the expert.

Dysklyver · Unread post by **Dysklyver** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:07 pm

Ming wrote:Look, Graaf, Ming had to look up Romaine to have a clue what you were talking about. No, of course Ming is not someone involved in a school editing project in Maastricht. Nor is Ming anyone else that anyone has ever speculated that Ming might be. Ming has said, several times, that Ming isn't an admin.

It works better if you don't worry about the specifics, Graaf's posts make much more sense if you go with the big picture thinking and a very loose reading of the context, especially as most these accounts he mentions are basically identical to the extent that this idea they are all the same person/group is not wildly implausible, so trying to sort them out is pretty much not worth it.

Ming · Unread post by **Ming** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:21 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:What about that bot what is running on both the MoiraMoira and Drmies account?

I don't believe in Sasquatch or the boogey man, and I don't believe in this bot either. Look, how many times are people going to have to mutter about you going on about this stuff for you to take the hint?

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:42 pm

Ming wrote:
Graaf Statler wrote:What about that bot what is running on both the MoiraMoira and Drmies account?
I don't believe in Sasquatch or the boogey man, and I don't believe in this bot either. Look, how many times are people going to have to mutter about you going on about this stuff for you to take the hint?

Sasquatch or the boogey man, Ming? The hint, Ming? What a bull again.
If you have close look at the history of both accounts, you will see both accounts edit in a certain ritme. A ritme what is not human, but are typical for both edits. You got it, Ming? Well, people to do thinks in live. They work, they drink coffee, they do there daily work, these people have a family, a social life, you are still there Ming? Well, all these things you can't do and in the same time editen Wikipedia! That was what Romaine was claiming, but that is impossible. Someone has to do a pee from time to time for instance. Can you imagine, on the toilet and editing Wikipedia in the same time, Ming? Is this clear to you?

Dysklyver · Unread post by **Dysklyver** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:49 pm

Actually it is just about possible that they edit while on the loo...

Graaf Statler autotune wrote:Sasquatch or the boogeyman, Ming? The hint, Ming? Really what bollocks...
If you have a close look at the history of both accounts, you will see that both accounts edit in a certain rhythm. A rhythm which is not natural, but is typical for the edits of both accounts. You got that Ming? Well, people to do things in life. They work, they drink coffee, they go to their work, these people have a family, a social life, you are still following me Ming? Well, all these things you can't do at the same time as editing Wikipedia! That was what Romaine was claiming, but it is impossible. Someone has to do a pee from time to time for instance. Can you imagine, being on the toilet and editing Wikipedia at the same time, Ming? Is this not clear to you?

^ autotune

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Fri Aug 24, 2018 10:57 pm

Dysklyver wrote:Actually it is just about possible that they edit while on the loo...

Sorry.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:12 am

Ming wrote:Look, Graaf, Ming had to look up Romaine to have a clue what you were talking about. No, of course Ming is not someone involved in a school editing project in Maastricht. Nor is Ming anyone else that anyone has ever speculated that Ming might be. Ming has said, several times, that Ming isn't an admin.

He Ming, I had a look too at Romaine. But that school editing project in Maastricht were you are talking about, where did you find that? I had a close look on both Romaines English as Dutch user pages and talk pages, and I only thing I found deep hidden was a welcome to Maastricht message. But nothing about the project you mention. Or do I miss something? In all that years Romaine was trolling around I never heard he was was involved in that project. So, how can you know he is involved in that project if you are not a sock of Romaine, Ming? And your style of discussing is very, very familiar to me. Always a smoke curtain, but never a straight answer. Did I solve the mystery Drmies, Ming? And are you not lying you are not a sysop and formal Arb, Ming? And stil a sysop and arb on WPNL? I am looking forward for your answers.

Activiteiten
5915 artikelen geschreven of sterk uitgebreid
Diverse edit-a-thons
Wiki Loves Monuments
Wiki Loves Africa
Volunteer at Wikimania 2014 + 2015
Wikipediadag / Wikimedia Conferentie Nederland 2013 (track begeleider)
WikiCon 2013 (2 presentaties)
Project donatie Hebreeuwse en Jiddisje woorden (WikiWoordenboek)
Wiki Loves Sound
GLAM-WIKI 2013 en GLAMcamp Amsterdam (december 2011)
EU Policy Advocacy group (bijeenkomst)
Project over oorlogsmonumenten in Nederland (2013, GLAM)
FOSDEM (2013)
Teylers Challenge (2012)
technisch ambassadeur voor Nederlandstalige projecten

Source
English userpage

PS hier zak je wel heel erg door het ijs.... Have a look here and back. Is there bot running, Ming, yes or yes? And again I look forward for your answer, because you can't hide the wiki history with new edits!

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:00 am

Dysklyver wrote:It works better if you don't worry about the specifics,

I find it works much better if you just mute them completely. If there is anything in the ramblings someone else will quote the relevant bits.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:52 am

Anroth wrote: I find it works much better if you just mute them completely. If there is anything in the ramblings someone else will quote the relevant bits.

Do you know what works much better? If Ming gave a explanation of what I found out. I gave the links, the evidences, and asked for a explanation. And you start to talk about muting?
I know a country where people like you feel at home. Yes they do. You fits perfect in North Korea, where you can bend all day long to the the Big Leader! And take that James Alexander with you!

Ming · Unread post by **Ming** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:10 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:
Ming wrote:Look, Graaf, Ming had to look up Romaine to have a clue what you were talking about. No, of course Ming is not someone involved in a school editing project in Maastricht. Nor is Ming anyone else that anyone has ever speculated that Ming might be. Ming has said, several times, that Ming isn't an admin.
He Ming, I had a look too at Romaine. But that school editing project in Maastricht were you are talking about, where did you find that?

Seriously?? Their second most recent edit in English is to Wikipedia:Benelux Education Program/Maastricht University/FPN Spring 2018 (T-H-L).

So, how can you know he is involved in that project if you are not a sock of Romaine, Ming?

Because, obviously, Ming isn't so wound up in these stupid conspiratorial notions that Ming cannot do some extremely simple and straightforward research properly. It's right there in their edit history, only you're so hell-bent on finding something wrong with Ming that you not only cannot see this, but you jump to the crackpot conclusion that the only way Ming could possibly know it is through some secret means.

And your style of discussing is very, very familiar to me.

No, it isn't. You cannot argue your way out of a paper bag, and you are absolutely tone deaf to differences in writing style. Ming is on one level willing to give you a pass on it because of the obvious weaknesses in your English, but in that language, Drmies and MM are obviously different people unless he's going out of his way to write badly as MM. Drmies's English is extremely idiomatic and natural; MM's is not. Conversely, Drmies's Dutch auto-translates in a way that tends to indicate he thinks in English first, whereas MM's autotranslates to something more opaque, as one would expect from a native speaker.

Look, Ming thinks you are wasting your time, again. Ming isn't an admin, Ming has never been an admin, and Ming doesn't really want to be an admin. Ming doesn't think that Ming could get through an RfA because Ming has been a PiTA to too many people, and besides, it's well-known that Ming is something of a deletionist. Ming doesn't speak or read Dutch, and because of that, Ming can only care so much about what goes on in the Dutch WP. Ming isn't any of your supposed persecutors in-Wiki.

PS hier zak je wel heel erg door het ijs

MM's typing is obviously a lot more accurate than Ming's, or they were copying from some other text, piece by piece. But you know, Graaf, Ming programs computers for a living; it's not terribly unlikely that Ming has been doing it since before you were born. Ming has a finely developed sense of what computers can and cannot do. And the series of edits to which you point here are clearly done by hand; there's nothing the least bit regular about them that indicates they could have been done through automation. And the rest of MM's edit history looks like this too: long series of edits that look as though they were done, quickly, by hand. They don't look anything like the bot-ish use of AWB and Twinkle and other such tools which you could see in the histories of others who have been discussed.

One thing that Ming learned long ago was to chuck ideas that didn't pan out. This notion of yours isn't panning out.

Dysklyver · Unread post by **Dysklyver** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 1:40 pm

Ming wrote:But you know, Graaf, Ming programs computers for a living; it's not terribly unlikely that Ming has been doing it since before you were born.

Pretty much in agreement with the rest, but... nitpick!

Computers were introduced (to the public) in 1975.
Graaf is a very old dude.
Ergo: Graaf was born before you first programmed a computer.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:08 pm

Yes, that is right. I grow up with vacuum tubes. And of course I was bit bullying Ming because Ming is so often speculating. But, thanks for this info Ming.

Let's look what proven facts we have till now about Drmies and MM.

*There is a tremendous chaos on WPNL around the account MoiraMoira going on. 8, 9 block requests on a small wiki are not normal and indeed the rocky bottom was reached in the "discussion".
*These edits are not bot edits, that was what I wanted to now from a expert, but they are not normal edits. The intervals are extreem short, and they lock botmatic.
*MoiraMoira. It is impossible MM is making this edits herself, because she simple doesn't have the time to do that and it doesn't look to me this edits are in her field of interest.
*Drmies, Idem, It is impossible Drmies is making this edits himself, because he simple doesn't have the time to do that, and it doesn't look to me this edits are in his field of interest.
*Romaine. The account of Romaine was making the same style of edits when Romaine was traveling from Brussels to Utrecht to give instructions. This is impossible.
*Ymnes made a log in mistake a few days ago. The account MoiraMoira changed the style of editing complete today, probably after reading this topic.

I agree the owners of these accounts are three different persons. But the style of the botmatic human edits is on all three accounts the same. And the behaving is often rediciles, see what happens on WPNL, and on the American fora you hear in every corner the name Drmies in a bad context. It looks to me Ymnes is editing this three account and has acces to them.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:26 pm

The only question what remains is does he pee in his computer, or does he lives in the toilet. Because it is of course complet bull what Ming is predicting, this is a bot what is running. And the human factor when this bot is running is.........Ymnes!

Ming · Unread post by **Ming** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:00 pm

This is the kind of half-assed analysis that Ming is familiar with from reading 9/11 cranks. Sorry, but no.

By the way, you have been duly laughed at.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:22 pm

Thanks for the link Ming. But he is misreading. Im not claiming the owners of the account are the same person. No, of course not, they are living in different countrys. One is a man, the other a woman, both intellectuals, that is not a secret. Dr. mies. (Of course I don't dox them here.)

I am claiming the same bot, bot operator is both editing on the Moira and the Drmies account. On the Moira account I am pretty sure it is Ymnens because of his log in mistake, and why should Ymnes not also on edit on the Drmies account. Seen the fact every forum lights up with the name Drmies. Because for sure it is the same bot, that is easy to find out. And I can't imagine the real Drmies makes this blunder, so this seems to me a posting of Ymnens because he is incredible stupide.

Paul Bedson · Unread post by **Paul Bedson** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:31 pm

One day we'll wake up from this horrible nightmare and there will only be Drmies, Moira and James Alexander left on the ghost ship of Wikipedia.

The decentralized party boats have arrived!

Paul Bedson · Unread post by **Paul Bedson** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:42 pm

Ming wrote:Graaf, at least keep straight that MoiraMoira and Moira are different accounts.

Finally, by accident, I think I have stumbled across what the heck is going on here, or at least some comments about it. It helped a great deal, Graaf, that you could put your complaint in a single sentence, even if I can't find right off where MM did this. But I've looked at Drmies's and MoiraMoira's English contribs, and either someone does a good job of sounding like two different people, or it's two different people. And Drmies Dutch contributions are strikingly less idiomatic than most: Bing Translate turns them into much better English than others, whereas MM's English contributions have a slight "off" quality to them, and never mind the complete difference in tone. Perhaps they work with each other: Drmies uses Twinkle copiously to do nerdy admin stuff, but it isn't clear that MM does the same.

Ming you're so funny and clever. It's a shame you're on their side really.

I don't think Moira is Drmies either. You might have something about her letting Ymnes use her account though. That looks convincing. Maybe there's something in your Natuur claims as well, and God bless you for hounding their terrible system into the ground. I could go writing posts on here about Volunteer Marek and his stickees but there's no real point. They've got their business running the way they want and we're not welcome volunteers over there. What you're right about is that WPNL is terrible. If they didn't have a page on Edward Robinson, what else don't they have a page about?

Whatever they don't have, you can make money writing about now, not in SBs but in IQs! I'll even sort you out one of these EOS accounts with some pre-loaded IQ, because you are "my buddy".

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:51 pm

Paul Bedson wrote:One day we'll wake up from this horrible nightmare and there will only be Drmies, Moira and James Alexander left on the ghost ship of Wikipedia.

The decentralized party boats have arrived!

Hi Paul, a time not seen. These are people with the mind of a child of five years old, for them is Wikipedia a game. A ghost ship is the right term, the crew has left a long time ago. These accounts are given away, however it want, take it. And these children are play in arbcom, as sysops, everywhere. They have now fun, just like a child has. The most powerful sysop after Moira is about 11 years old! MathijsWiki, I have seen a picture of him. But maybe they are right to have fun! Because it is a complete industry based on nothing! On indeed a ghost ship. Because there are many, many more abandoned accounts where they are playing around with there bots. They just troll a bit arround, and the world admire them!

Ming made a joke when he said I was in the computer industry before I was born, because of course he know i am old. Ming can be 12, 14, I don't know. he is playing around their too! And he is complete right! Such a playground for free! He and his friends are complete right, I will be the last person on this earth to be angry with them! I had done the same at that age!

Unread post by **Midsize Jake** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:01 pm

Could someone explain what an "edit patron" is, for those of us who have never heard this term before?

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:06 pm

Midsize Jake wrote:Could someone explain what an "edit patron" is, for those of us who have never heard this term before?

Sorry, a edit patroon. It means the edits are about he same. They follow a pattern we say.

Unread post by **Midsize Jake** » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:28 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:Sorry, a edit patroon. It means the edits are about he same. They follow a pattern we say.

Edit patterns? There's no obvious similarity in the edit patterns of those two accounts, at least on en.wikipedia.org. (Frankly, the whole notion of "edit patterns" as "evidence" in SPI's is bogus in about 90 percent of cases.)

Or are you saying the pattern is similar between the Drmies account on the English Wikipedia and the MoiraMoira account on the Dutch Wikipedia? I'm not seeing that either, but of course I don't speak the language.

Frankly, this whole business strikes me as a bit silly.

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Sun Aug 26, 2018 12:08 am

Midsize Jake wrote:
Graaf Statler wrote:Sorry, a edit patroon. It means the edits are about he same. They follow a pattern we say.
Edit patterns? There's no obvious similarity in the edit patterns of those two accounts, at least on en.wikipedia.org. (Frankly, the whole notion of "edit patterns" as "evidence" in SPI's is bogus in about 90 percent of cases.)

Or are you saying the pattern is similar between the Drmies account on the English Wikipedia and the MoiraMoira account on the Dutch Wikipedia? I'm not seeing that either, but of course I don't speak the language.

Frankly, this whole business strikes me as a bit silly.

You don't know the Dutch Wikipedia Jake, Paul does. It is indeed silly, complet silly. What has happend, I told it before, the original "owners" of the accounts have left that wiki long ago, but have given there accounts to others. And in this way the accounts have gone from hand to hand, and have changed in bot accounts, with bot drivers like for instance Ymnes. Drmies is also such a account. Many users have acces to many accounts in this way, an now and then the original owner appears. But, because all the time "account pilots" leave , you get others who take there place, and in this way it has ended in a complet madhouse.
And what happend yesterday was a tremendous fight between the original owners of the accounts, who understand this can't go one, but they have no solution. Because if they quitte the pilot account system, complet WPNL collaps. And how must they explane all that years of support of WMF for nothing, that is the probelm. Paul is complete right, WPNL is a ghost ship without a crew.

Here two others, both belonging to lawyers, look back in the history, all bot edits.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... et=Peter+b

https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... et=Robotje

Graaf Statler · Unread post by **Graaf Statler** » Sun Aug 26, 2018 1:22 am

and Jake, and then it time to stop about this subject, that giant Caribbean project is now in the hands of a few kids of about 10-14 year old, and not only Ymnes has a massive metal defect, but others too. What is the next step? To have a look in the kindergartens if there a few preschool children for the next project? Because the play we saw here of Ming and Dr. Mies belongs in a daycare for children, don't you agree? It is silly, you used the right word. Complete silly and a tremendous spoiling of donor money.

Unread post by **Midsize Jake** » Sun Aug 26, 2018 7:04 am

Graaf Statler wrote:and Jake, and then it time to stop about this subject, that giant Caribbean project is now in the hands of a few kids of about 10-14 year old, and not only Ymnes has a massive metal defect, but others too. What is the next step?

You just said what the next step was, right? We stop about this subject?

Look, we all know User:Drmies is basically a complete wanker, and all these people like Ymnes on nl.wikipedia are complete wankers. Nobody disputes this! But threads like this one don't really accomplish much in terms of critique, and no offense, but it takes a really, really precise, organized, and clear set of arguments when making a case like this for most people to make sense of them. I'm not blaming you, but the language problems here are just too hard to get past.

What's more, it's common knowledge that these people share all sorts of software "gadgets" and Mediawiki extensions (like Huggle, Twinkle, Igloo, STiki and thousands of unwanted dick-pics) to revert other people's edits. Everyone uses the same stuff. We all know this. These are not necessarily "bots"; they're just "tools." They're no big deal.

So yes, I think we stop about this subject now and lock the thread. And please, try not to do this again.