Admin resignations

thekohser · Unread post by **thekohser** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:51 pm

MoldyHay wrote:TParis calls it "quits"

At least the turned in his bit...

Good riddance.

TParis says in his goodbye:

I love this project, I love it's idea, and I love it's spirit.

I'm not sure how the project will carry on, having lost such a luminary figure in grammar.

DanMurphy · Unread post by **DanMurphy** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:55 pm

Not the sharpest pencil in the pocket-protector.

Greek_government-debt_crisis#Alleged_pursuit_of_national_self-interest is a Marxist defense of Greece and attack on Germany's success in a clear NPOV violation to push the socialism viewpoint and attack capitalism. It quotes Paul Krugman making an ad hominem assault on Germany without science or academics to back up his claims and amounts to "don't listen to them" and using "Nobel prize winning" as an appeal to authority. The entire section contains an entirely slanted point of view and several clear instances of original research such as:

(The section in question notes the very common criticism of the currency union that fiscal and monetary policy are not aligned, and Krugman's opinion that the Germans are moralizing about debt repayment and not being practical. That commie bastard!)

The article Greek government-debt crisis (T-H-L) is of course an unholy mess. But that's largely due to the rabble of incompetents like Tparis scribbling all over it, rather than a problem of too many Marxists under the bed.

The lede:

The Greek government-debt crisis (also known as the Greek Depression[3][4][5] in reference to the Great Depression) is part of the ongoing European debt crisis, being triggered by the turmoil of the Great Recession, and believed to have been directly caused locally in Greece by a combination of structural weaknesses of the Greek economy along with a decade long pre-existence of overly high structural deficits and debt-to-GDP levels on public accounts. In late 2009, fears of a sovereign debt crisis developed among investors concerning Greece's ability to meet its debt obligations, due to a reported strong increase in government debt levels along with continued existence of high structural deficits.[6][7][8] This led to a crisis of confidence, indicated by a widening of bond yield spreads and the cost of risk insurance on credit default swaps compared to the other countries in the Eurozone, most importantly Germany.[9][10]

eppur si muove · Unread post by **eppur si muove** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:45 pm

Nice to know that the good ol' U S of A is paying people to fight commies by, er, contributing to a project based on the idea of shared ownership of knowledge :twilightzone:

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:16 pm

eppur si muove wrote:Nice to know that the good ol' U S of A is paying people to fight commies by, er, contributing to a project based on the idea of shared ownership of knowledge

Ha!

Countdown to TP showing up here in 5, 4, 3....

thekohser · Unread post by **thekohser** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:28 pm

TParis also says:

One of the primary reasons I am leaving is because of the harassment I received and the community's lack of response against it by Coretheapple, Smallbones, Figureofnine and Atethnekos.

Well, I have to say, with enemies like that, maybe this guy is my friend. TParis, if you want to jump whole-hog into undisclosed paid editing, give me a buzz. I'll teach you the difference between its and it's, and then we'll be on our way.

Johnny Au · Unread post by **Johnny Au** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:02 pm

TParis's edit counter no longer works even. It has been succeeded by other similar edit counters.

SB_Johnny · Unread post by **SB_Johnny** » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:36 pm

MoldyHay wrote:Oops, I forgot about that thread. Mods, feel free to move my post.

Your wish is my volunteering opportunity.

DanMurphy · Unread post by **DanMurphy** » Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:39 pm

Notvelty wrote:
DanMurphy wrote:Not the sharpest pencil in the pocket-protector.

Greek_government-debt_crisis#Alleged_pursuit_of_national_self-interest is a Marxist defense of Greece and attack on Germany's success in a clear NPOV violation to push the socialism viewpoint and attack capitalism. It quotes Paul Krugman making an ad hominem assault on Germany without science or academics to back up his claims and amounts to "don't listen to them" and using "Nobel prize winning" as an appeal to authority. The entire section contains an entirely slanted point of view and several clear instances of original research such as:
(The section in question notes the very common criticism of the currency union that fiscal and monetary policy are not aligned, and Krugman's opinion that the Germans are moralizing about debt repayment and not being practical. That commie bastard!)

I don't think that's Krugman's position. My reading is that he's saying that the Germans (and others) are wrong to suggest that debt and borrowing is the only cause. He doesn't appear to be saying anything one way or the other of the morality of the process, simply describing the process.

The section quotes Krugman so:

Listen to many European leaders—especially, but by no means only, the Germans—and you'd think that their continent's troubles are a simple morality tale of debt and punishment: Governments borrowed too much, now they're paying the price, and fiscal austerity is the only answer.

Notvelty · Unread post by **Notvelty** » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:39 pm

DanMurphy wrote:
Notvelty wrote:
DanMurphy wrote:Not the sharpest pencil in the pocket-protector.

Greek_government-debt_crisis#Alleged_pursuit_of_national_self-interest is a Marxist defense of Greece and attack on Germany's success in a clear NPOV violation to push the socialism viewpoint and attack capitalism. It quotes Paul Krugman making an ad hominem assault on Germany without science or academics to back up his claims and amounts to "don't listen to them" and using "Nobel prize winning" as an appeal to authority. The entire section contains an entirely slanted point of view and several clear instances of original research such as:
(The section in question notes the very common criticism of the currency union that fiscal and monetary policy are not aligned, and Krugman's opinion that the Germans are moralizing about debt repayment and not being practical. That commie bastard!)

I don't think that's Krugman's position. My reading is that he's saying that the Germans (and others) are wrong to suggest that debt and borrowing is the only cause. He doesn't appear to be saying anything one way or the other of the morality of the process, simply describing the process.
The section quotes Krugman so:

Listen to many European leaders—especially, but by no means only, the Germans—and you'd think that their continent's troubles are a simple morality tale of debt and punishment: Governments borrowed too much, now they're paying the price, and fiscal austerity is the only answer.

You are right.

My bad, I was intending to agree with you and appear to have stuffed up the quote mark placement. I think I meant to quote more of the wikipedian's spiel, but I don't rightly remember exactly. I blame senility... yeah.. senility.

Anthonyhcole · Unread post by **Anthonyhcole** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:40 am

On my watchlist:

(User rights log); 20:14 . . 28bytes (talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Nyttend from edit filter manager and administrator to edit filter manager ‎(self-request via bureaucrats mailing list)

Just for the record. No idea what it's about.

Nyttend (T-C-L)

EricBarbour · Unread post by **EricBarbour** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:41 am

Anthonyhcole wrote:On my watchlist:
(User rights log); 20:14 . . 28bytes (talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Nyttend from edit filter manager and administrator to edit filter manager ‎(self-request via bureaucrats mailing list)
Just for the record. No idea what it's about.

Possibly it has something to do with this squabble, which lasted a couple of weeks on AN.

Anthonyhcole · Unread post by **Anthonyhcole** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:59 am

EricBarbour wrote:
Anthonyhcole wrote:On my watchlist:
(User rights log); 20:14 . . 28bytes (talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Nyttend from edit filter manager and administrator to edit filter manager ‎(self-request via bureaucrats mailing list)
Just for the record. No idea what it's about.
Possibly it has something to do with this squabble, which lasted a couple of weeks on AN.

Very bold. On its face, putting aside his/her permissions is a responsible move - to take a break and reflect. There should be a lot more of this kind of thing.

I updated your link.

JCM · Unread post by **JCM** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:43 pm

Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project after the recent completely ridiculous argument about Eric. I can understand and sympathize with his reasons, particularly given the treatment he has received, but at the same time I wish it hadn't happened.

MoldyHay · Unread post by **MoldyHay** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:04 pm

JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project after the recent completely ridiculous argument about Eric. I can understand and sympathize with his reasons, particularly given the treatment he has received, but at the same time I wish it hadn't happened.

That's what you get for blocking Giano (T-C-L).

Lukeno94 · Unread post by **Lukeno94** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:19 pm

JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project after the recent completely ridiculous argument about Eric. I can understand and sympathize with his reasons, particularly given the treatment he has received, but at the same time I wish it hadn't happened.

It seems like that issue was actually only one of many; there were quite a few of their actions that were questionable, apparently.

lilburne · Unread post by **lilburne** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:27 pm

Lukeno94 wrote:
JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project after the recent completely ridiculous argument about Eric. I can understand and sympathize with his reasons, particularly given the treatment he has received, but at the same time I wish it hadn't happened.
It seems like that issue was actually only one of many; there were quite a few of their actions that were questionable, apparently.

Oh?

EricBarbour · Unread post by **EricBarbour** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:34 pm

JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project after the recent completely ridiculous argument about Eric. I can understand and sympathize with his reasons, particularly given the treatment he has received, but at the same time I wish it hadn't happened.

He'll be back.

Notvelty · Unread post by **Notvelty** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:27 am

lilburne wrote:
Lukeno94 wrote:
JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project after the recent completely ridiculous argument about Eric. I can understand and sympathize with his reasons, particularly given the treatment he has received, but at the same time I wish it hadn't happened.
It seems like that issue was actually only one of many; there were quite a few of their actions that were questionable, apparently.
Oh?

All the people with user pages you can access by typing "user:" as the first 5 characters in the search box.

JCM · Unread post by **JCM** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:49 am

EricBarbour wrote:
JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project after the recent completely ridiculous argument about Eric. I can understand and sympathize with his reasons, particularly given the treatment he has received, but at the same time I wish it hadn't happened.
He'll be back.

I sure as hell hope so. He seems to basically gotten himself in the landmine territory of Eric and Giano, and I don't know anyone who has been involved there who hasn't gotten a little singed or damaged in the crossfire whenever those two individuals are involved.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:58 am

EricBarbour wrote:
JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project after the recent completely ridiculous argument about Eric. I can understand and sympathize with his reasons, particularly given the treatment he has received, but at the same time I wish it hadn't happened.
He'll be back.

He was gone and then jumped back in on some sort of 9-double-shots of espresso caffeine high, guns blazing...

That was the problem.

RfB

Writegeist · Unread post by **Writegeist** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:22 am

JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project

"Unfortunately"?

Abusive admin, arrogant prick, when cornered resorts to snivelling about PTSD from military active duty; attracts the besotted admiration of Ironholds and the intervention of Jonathan Hochman. In short, exudes the same foul stench as John "Flak Jacket" Palmer (whom Hochman also tried, and failed, to protect, if memory serves). So I wouldn't be surprised if…

Anthonyhcole · Unread post by **Anthonyhcole** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:20 am

Blocking MalleusMaleficarum1486 last year was wrong. It happened 2 days after MalleusMaleficarum1486 was warned for a couple of instances of very mild classic newby 1- or 2-revert edit-warring link https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =591459280[/link]. He had previously shown a willingness and ability to conform to our norms once they were pointed out, and the "disruption" had stopped upon the warning (i.e., 48 hours without a problem). Coffee's decision to decline Malleus's unblock request (that is, reviewing his own block) link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk ... nuary_2014[/link] was very wrong. A dick move. Coffee's mea culpa yesterday doesn't work for me:

...I do think in hindsight that it would have been better to allow another admin to review that unblock request, even if I think it would have ended up the same way. Purely because it would ease the concerns of esteemed editors like yourself.

MalleusMaleficarum1486 was defending the articles at AFD/Involuntary celibacy (a neologism) and AFD/Brian G. Gilmartin (the neologism's non-notable coiner). I haven't followed most of the external links but the subject involves dismayed, frustrated, resentful or angry men who can't get laid, and it seems to be a lightening rod for "men's rights activists" and other gender warriors.

Which is a worry because, apart from some wrong AFD closures due to a misunderstanding of policy and a bad "discretionary sanctions" block (both worrisome), the other complaints raised in that ANI discussion involve (1) unblocking Rationalobserver (a feminist) without a clear rationale and without discussing with the blocking admin, (2) blocking Giano (accused of sexism by Coffee) without a clear rationale or diffs and extending the block and withdrawing talk page access because of some understandable venting, and (3) blocking Eric Corbett (accused of sexism by many) at Arbitration Enforcement while discussion was ongoing.

Triptych · Unread post by **Triptych** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:14 am

Writegeist wrote:
JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project
"Unfortunately"?

Abusive admin, arrogant prick, when cornered resorts to snivelling about PTSD from military active duty; attracts the besotted admiration of Ironholds and the intervention of Jonathan Hochman. In short, exudes the same foul stench as John "Flak Jacket" Palmer (whom Hochman also tried, and failed, to protect, if memory serves). So I wouldn't be surprised if…

I see some additional points of similarity to Bwilkins, but feel they are just coincidence. Bwilkins would habitually make these grossly insulting statements i.e. "you are lying, you are trolling," and then respond when confronted "oh I never called you a liar or troll, I merely commented on your behavior not you as a person." And Coffee kind of does that. He says, paraphrasing, "I did not criticize your character, I only said your edits show defective character as an editor." They both copy-paste generic welcome notices at the talkpages of new users. Etc. But I think it is coincidence.

I noticed his prior account name was "Chetblong" and that he was desysoped previously (password-sharing scandal?) but Arbcom voted to resysop him when he asked. (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... ser:Coffee.)

Anthonyhcole · Unread post by **Anthonyhcole** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:06 pm

Correction:

Above I say, "(2) blocking Giano ... without a clear rationale or diffs..." Strike "without a clear rationale". Coffee had a clear rationale - sexism. If you add Giano's recent commentary to the rant Molly mentioned here last January, I think a case could be made that Giano indulges in insulting sexist commentary, and blocking for that kind of thing is appropriate. But the blocking admin has to make the case, with diffs.

Jim · Unread post by **Jim** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:02 pm

JCM wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:
JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project after the recent completely ridiculous argument about Eric. I can understand and sympathize with his reasons, particularly given the treatment he has received, but at the same time I wish it hadn't happened.
He'll be back.
I sure as hell hope so.

Really? You'd like to see Coffee (T-C-L) taking administrative decisions about the sum of all human knowledge?
Forgive me for not consulting you next time I need a babysitter.

Triptych · Unread post by **Triptych** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:28 pm

Anthonyhcole wrote:Correction:

Above I say, "(2) blocking Giano ... without a clear rationale or diffs..." Strike "without a clear rationale". Coffee had a clear rationale - sexism. If you add Giano's recent commentary to the rant Molly mentioned here last January, I think a case could be made that Giano indulges in insulting sexist commentary, and blocking for that kind of thing is appropriate. But the blocking admin has to make the case, with diffs.

Sexism is not a policy rationale. All blocks must be based in policy otherwise Wikipedia is prone to encouraging the bullying acts of snide, sarcastic, and superior administrators. If you wanted to use sexism to justify a block, you could possibly do it on an "incivility" basis. If Giano for example said (he didn't) "oh Gorilla, be quiet you silly little woman" then it would be reasonable to block on incivility.

In the first diff above, Giano has just been, to his thinking anyway, unjustly blocked and then *further* subjected to the extreme remedy of Ed (I think) removing his talkpage access. So I think yeah, he ought tO be allowed to vent a little.

JCM · Unread post by **JCM** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:17 pm

Jim wrote:
JCM wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:
JCM wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like Coffee (T-C-L) may have left the project after the recent completely ridiculous argument about Eric. I can understand and sympathize with his reasons, particularly given the treatment he has received, but at the same time I wish it hadn't happened.
He'll be back.
I sure as hell hope so.
Really? You'd like to see Coffee (T-C-L) taking administrative decisions about the sum of all human knowledge?
Forgive me for not consulting you next time I need a babysitter.

I'm not sure if I specifically indicated I wanted him back as an administrator. In fact, I actually supported desysop'ing him based on the really unsupportable threats to Rationalobserver, whom I have never had a very positive opinion of. Actually, I'm not sure I myself would really mind that person, and maybe one or two others mentioned in the discussion, disappearing completely. But I do think that the circumstances here, in which he seems to havejoined others in, basically, being caught in the crossfire between wikipedia's versions of the Hatfields and McCoys (or pro-and-anti Giano and Malleus factions), is extremely unfortunate.

Lukeno94 · Unread post by **Lukeno94** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:31 pm

Perhaps, with hindsight, I should've proposed a 6-month block for RO rather than the indefinite block; my hope that the "community" was as sick of that drama merchant as myself was obviously misplaced. Coffee made mistakes, both in this case, and in several others that came to light; perhaps the dumbest thing he could've done, however, was to reject any notion of following any community sanctions placed upon himself. Whilst I have a degree of sympathy for the way things panned out (and indeed, I tried to be a vague voice of reason at times), it's hard to say anything other than he has himself to blame. He wasn't helped, obviously, but this wasn't a case of an innocent getting their hands burnt in a war they knew nothing about.

Jim · Unread post by **Jim** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:50 am

JCM wrote:In fact, I actually supported desysop'ing him based on the really unsupportable threats to Rationalobserver, whom I have never had a very positive opinion of.

- so you did.

JCM wrote:But I do think that the circumstances here, in which he seems to have joined others in, basically, being caught in the crossfire between wikipedia's versions of the Hatfields and McCoys (or pro-and-anti Giano and Malleus factions), is extremely unfortunate.

That he would thus involve himself speaks volumes about his maturity and judgement.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:43 am

Lukeno94 wrote:Perhaps, with hindsight, I should've proposed a 6-month block for RO rather than the indefinite block; my hope that the "community" was as sick of that drama merchant as myself was obviously misplaced. Coffee made mistakes, both in this case, and in several others that came to light; perhaps the dumbest thing he could've done, however, was to reject any notion of following any community sanctions placed upon himself. Whilst I have a degree of sympathy for the way things panned out (and indeed, I tried to be a vague voice of reason at times), it's hard to say anything other than he has himself to blame. He wasn't helped, obviously, but this wasn't a case of an innocent getting their hands burnt in a war they knew nothing about.

As with Lightbreather, whom she resembles more than a little, RO isn't a 100% drone drama bee and therefore receives the consideration due to any longterm volunteer.

That whole crew — LB, RO, Carol Moore, Neonarf, and friends — needs to get off the Drama Police binge and to stop waging war on their perceived enemies — Corbett, Sitush, Giano, and friends. They've got more than enough to do solving the real issue of the Gender Gap (lack of female participation) and its negative effect (inadequate coverage of female related topics) without waging war to the death over what is ultimately an unrelated or only vaguely tangential topic, Civility enforcement. It is completely absurd that they have escalated the issue the way that they have in an ostensible effort to "improve the editing climate at Wikipedia for women." The inevitable resulting gender war is about five times as toxic to the editing climate as the "problem" they are attempting to solve.

Arbcom during the GGTF case got the wrong people. They should have wiped out the incorrigible warriors CMDC, Lightbreather, Hell in a Bucket, and Two Kinds of Pork. Instead they took out CMDC (the absolute worst of any of these) and the somewhat less crazed Neotarf and let Lightbreather — who is an absolute drama addict — completely walk. That was a terrible error.

RfB

Lukeno94 · Unread post by **Lukeno94** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:51 am

I think that's a pretty apt summary. Still, in Rationalobserver's case, she's now been shown categorically that she can violate unblock restrictions straight away, and no-one is going to stop her. Even Eric doesn't get away that lightly!

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:00 am

Lukeno94 wrote:I think that's a pretty apt summary. Still, in Rationalobserver's case, she's now been shown categorically that she can violate unblock restrictions straight away, and no-one is going to stop her. Even Eric doesn't get away that lightly!

She's now got an opening for deescalation. We'll see if she avails herself of it.

The clock is ticking on Corbett. He will be indeffed off sometime this year unless he gives the Pugnacious Barroom Brawler schtick a total miss. It seems he is doing better, but better isn't good enough — he's gotta fix things completely. I'll believe that when I see it.

RfB

Lukeno94 · Unread post by **Lukeno94** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:50 pm

I think Eric would be OK if people just stopped baiting him. That's the problem; it's a vicious cycle, and just blocking Eric doesn't fix anything. Most admins realize that, but there are a few who don't.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:51 pm

Lukeno94 wrote:I think Eric would be OK if people just stopped baiting him. That's the problem; it's a vicious cycle, and just blocking Eric doesn't fix anything. Most admins realize that, but there are a few who don't.

A good example of the baiting he endures is the trolling IP comment from Massachusetts that you recently deleted from his User Talk that explicitly called him a cunt with a link to Urban Dictionary... link https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =649610894[/link]

There was yet another IP on the scene to restore the insult nine hours later, ironically blocked by Coffee himself link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... :403F:F7AE[/link]

RfB

Lukeno94 · Unread post by **Lukeno94** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:01 pm

I didn't even need to see the link to verify what they were referring to; it's an insult that I'm very familiar with, although I only ever heard it being used when I was about 13-14. Which probably gives us a clue as to the (mental) age of the IP.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:08 pm

Lukeno94 wrote:I think Eric would be OK if people just stopped baiting him. That's the problem; it's a vicious cycle, and just blocking Eric doesn't fix anything. Most admins realize that, but there are a few who don't.

Eric goes looking for fights when he drinks.
There are those who will oblige him.

He, like MathSci before him, won't be missed when they're gone.

Jim · Unread post by **Jim** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:16 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Lukeno94 wrote:I think Eric would be OK if people just stopped baiting him. That's the problem; it's a vicious cycle, and just blocking Eric doesn't fix anything. Most admins realize that, but there are a few who don't.
Eric goes looking for fights when he drinks.

Déjà vu

SB_Johnny · Unread post by **SB_Johnny** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:02 am

Vigilant wrote:He, like MathSci before him, won't be missed when they're gone.

Math who?

Neotarf · Unread post by **Neotarf** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:03 am

Randy from Boise wrote:the somewhat less crazed Neotarf

That's the nicest thing anyone has said about me on this forum so far.

Randy from Boise wrote:That whole crew — LB, RO, Carol Moore, Neonarf, and friends

Um, these are not my "friends", I don't even know them, and one even agreed privately to stay off my talk page when I asked. Maybe if whoever wrote the GGTF case had done their homework, before proposing a gender topic ban for me, they would have figured out that I have never edited about gender, and was never a member of the gender group. I got concerned when I dropped a link on the page as a courtesy to the group--it wasn't a topic I was interested in myself--and got harassed by Two Kinds of Pork for my effort. My interests run more towards Palestine, but a brief foray into that area convinced me the editing environment wasn't what I was looking for.

I actually went to the trouble to ask the gender people what they needed to make the group work, and was surprised they didn't want anyone banned or blocked, they just wanted three people, Specifico, Sitush, and TKOP, then later Corbett, to stay off the task force talk page so they could get some work done. They said they were engaging productively with these people elsewhere.

"Neonarf", huh. That's probably the politest misspelling of my name I have seen so far.

Hex · Unread post by **Hex** » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:05 am

Vigilant wrote: Eric goes looking for fights when he drinks.
There are those who will oblige him.

He, like MathSci before him, won't be missed when they're gone.

There will be a small group of people that will whine loudly about it. That won't last very long. After that, he'll just fade into being a distant memory from a more annoying era.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:01 pm

Protonk (T-C-L) has left the building. Good job HJ Mitchell!

Lukeno94 · Unread post by **Lukeno94** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:32 pm

Protonk defended MarkBernstein to a ridiculous degree. No great loss there, let's be honest.

JCM · Unread post by **JCM** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:34 pm

And, much to the disappointment of at least a few of us, Yngvadottir (T-C-L) as well. With any luck, though, she might be interested in translating some material for use in English. Have I ever mentioned how fucking impossible it is to find some good sources in English on some topics? Being someone who has worked with a lot of religion-related topics, I am stunned that even in seminary reference libraries the amount of information on topics like the Armenian Apostolic Church (T-H-L) is embarrassingly small. The Assyrian Church of the East (T-H-L)'s coverage is, if anything, worse. And while the coverage of the religious traditions of indigenous peoples or of a broadly "historic" type in some cases is a bit more common, there are still a lot of holes in a lot of them. I would love to see, if nothing else, her maybe make some of the Norse religious traditions which haven't been widely translated at wikisource, where they might be more easily available to those of who with limited foreign language skills.

Peryglus · Unread post by **Peryglus** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 6:40 pm

Well, Yngvadottir didn't half leave a leaving message. It looks about 20 paragraphs long.

Unread post by **Zoloft** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:17 pm

Peryglus wrote:Well, Yngvadottir didn't half leave a leaving message. It looks about 20 paragraphs long.

...all of that text is CC-BY-SA too. Can someone reach out to her and see if she would mind an edited-for-space version as a Wikipediocracy blog post?

JCM · Unread post by **JCM** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:19 pm

Zoloft wrote:
Peryglus wrote:Well, Yngvadottir didn't half leave a leaving message. It looks about 20 paragraphs long.
...all of that text is CC-BY-SA too. Can someone reach out to her and see if she would mind an edited-for-spsce version as a Wikipediocracy blog post?

I have left a message on her talk page, and there is a chance she might respond by e-mail to me, but part of the problem is that she doesn't have e-mail enabled, and I don't know anyone who has her e-mail address.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:27 pm

Neotarf wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:the somewhat less crazed Neotarf
That's the nicest thing anyone has said about me on this forum so far.

Randy from Boise wrote:That whole crew — LB, RO, Carol Moore, Neonarf, and friends
Um, these are not my "friends", I don't even know them, and one even agreed privately to stay off my talk page when I asked. Maybe if whoever wrote the GGTF case had done their homework, before proposing a gender topic ban for me, they would have figured out that I have never edited about gender, and was never a member of the gender group. I got concerned when I dropped a link on the page as a courtesy to the group--it wasn't a topic I was interested in myself--and got harassed by Two Kinds of Pork for my effort. My interests run more towards Palestine, but a brief foray into that area convinced me the editing environment wasn't what I was looking for.

I actually went to the trouble to ask the gender people what they needed to make the group work, and was surprised they didn't want anyone banned or blocked, they just wanted three people, Specifico, Sitush, and TKOP, then later Corbett, to stay off the task force talk page so they could get some work done. They said they were engaging productively with these people elsewhere.

"Neonarf", huh. That's probably the politest misspelling of my name I have seen so far.

See, I can be very polite and nice!!!

Just drop the cudgel and move along with the real work, that's all.

RfB

Triptych · Unread post by **Triptych** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:20 pm

Peryglus wrote:Well, Yngvadottir didn't half leave a leaving message. It looks about 20 paragraphs long.

I like the part where she says:

We have indeed become a massive bureaucracy. In addition to the redefinition of edit warring that lays open all give-and-take collaboration to punishment as edit warring, the methods of discussion are more and more byzantine. Both the Witiquette noticeboard and Requests for Comment have been closed down, leaving AN/I, a dreadful gauntlet where reporting editors are likely to be set upon and censured, or alternatively the complaint languishes unnoticed until it's archived, with or without first generating long discussions between the editors involved in the dispute and/or more or less hasty and sarcastic commentary from gadflies and more or less clueful admin wannabees. There's a regrettable amount of failure to read the complaint carefully, or the diffs

AN/I (and AN too, really) is a dreadful gauntlet. It's inhabited by the worst sorts of manipulators, authoritarians, and blockaholics. I view it as horrendous that many people call it "the community." Newyorkbrad and Worm for example have praised it as taking work off the shoulders of Arbcom, implying that its handling of all disputes and grievances will continue to grow, but this is turning things over to a mob. WP:AN/ANI is a veritable chat forum for the very worst self-selecting types. It is not any representation of "the community," rather it is a non-representative subset of Wikipedians that like to hang out at WP:AN/ANI. Obvious minor stuff gets handled, sure, but when the question requires some reading and consideration of context and thought, mob rule occurs. Like Yngva says, they fail to read the complaint and diffs. Often it's a piling-on affair where the regulars just read the first commenters and agree. The WP:AN/ANI regulars are not the type of people that like to read and careful consider things.

I also found it interesting that she was uncomfortable with naming Erik Moeller's big project "Flow." She said it brought to mind menstrual flow, and another female commented that she had also felt that way. That never occurred to me at all, I just thought flow like workflow or flow like a river.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:45 pm

Triptych wrote: I also found it interesting that she was uncomfortable with naming Erik Moeller's big project "Flow." She said it brought to mind menstrual flow, and another female commented that she had also felt that way. That never occurred to me at all, I just thought flow like workflow or flow like a river.

I think "Flow" is a great name because I get crabby and have painful cramps just thinking about it...

RfB

The Adversary · Unread post by **The Adversary** » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:53 pm

Triptych wrote:I also found it interesting that she was uncomfortable with naming Erik Moeller's big project "Flow." She said it brought to mind menstrual flow, and another female commented that she had also felt that way.

But that is perfect, isn´t it?
Lets face it: both are equally wanted...

(Yeah, I´m female, cis-female I think the name is)