Fixing attribution.Anthonyhcole wrote:That appears to have been neither rational nor intelligent. I probably should have included "informed and transparent" in the above.Notvelty (not Vigilant) wrote:Sure.Anthonyhcole wrote:Sumana Harihareswara: "If we exclude no one explicitly, we are just excluding a lot of people implicitly." I agree with this, and with Vigilant, above, that Kevin's done an excellent summary of an excellent speech. The only thing I would add is that the criteria for exclusion need to be rational and used intelligently.
Who gets to decide who to exclude explicitly?
How do they decide who to exclude explicitly?
How is this "excluding specific people" any different than what they did to Greg recently?
Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
- Vigilant
- Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
- Posts: 31699
- kołdry
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
- Wikipedia User: Vigilant
- Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
- Vigilant
- Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
- Posts: 31699
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
- Wikipedia User: Vigilant
- Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Two things adolescent boys want to know:Notvelty wrote:My position is that she doesn't have a point.Zoloft wrote: So you listened to it and caught her point: link
To paraphrase just a part: 'With these rules, I felt that I could tell someone when they were being aggressive or domineering'.
What childish rubbish. If you need rules and formulae to be able to stand up and tell someone that their actions in a group are inappropriate, then you still belong in school. Adults should not need formulaic rules to tell them how to behave.
'Oh, but how will you stop aggressive people from grandstanding and making it uncomfortable for other people?'
Yeah, sure. The very best way to stop aggressive psychopaths taking over is to give them a legislative framework to exploit. That's works sooo well in the past.
If there are to be rules, they must be the unwritten that are established by social precedence, not by fiat from above.
Substitute formulaic rules for a workable social interface and you end up with Wikipedia, whether the rules are bent and twisted to suit the elite.
1) Who is in charge?
2) What are the rules?
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
- Randy from Boise
- Been Around Forever
- Posts: 12196
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
- Wikipedia User: Carrite
- Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
- Actual Name: Tim Davenport
- Nom de plume: T. Chandler
- Location: Boise, Idaho
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
1. The cabal.Vigilant wrote: Two things adolescent boys want to know:
1) Who is in charge?
2) What are the rules?
2. We want a "friendly space" for us and ours. If you rock our boat, you will find yourself banned off and swimming...
RfB
- greyed.out.fields
- Gregarious
- Posts: 874
- Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 10:59 am
- Wikipedia User: I AM your guilty pleasure
- Actual Name: Written addiction
- Location: Back alley hang-up
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
I'm heading up towards 45 000 edits and 800 articles, and I've never posted on Jimbo's talk page. I intend to keep it that way.thekohser wrote:Are you all cowards here?thekohser wrote:Are there any editors in good standing in the house? Your intervention is needed.
"Snowflakes around the world are laughing at your low melting temperature."
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
There is that. Rules are necessary for children. Why? So that those rules can be used by the adults for control.Vigilant wrote: Two things adolescent boys want to know:
1) Who is in charge?
2) What are the rules?
-----------
Notvelty
Notvelty
- greyed.out.fields
- Gregarious
- Posts: 874
- Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 10:59 am
- Wikipedia User: I AM your guilty pleasure
- Actual Name: Written addiction
- Location: Back alley hang-up
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
You don't have children, do you? (Probably best you keep quiet when the grown-ups are talking. You'll understand why when you're older.)Notvelty wrote:There is that. Rules are necessary for children. Why? So that those rules can be used by the adults for control.Vigilant wrote: Two things adolescent boys want to know:
1) Who is in charge?
2) What are the rules?
"Snowflakes around the world are laughing at your low melting temperature."
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
What the fuck are you talking about? Are you seriously trying to say that children do not require rules and routine? Or that these are not put in place to allow adults to exercise some modicum of control?greyed.out.fields wrote:You don't have children, do you? (Probably best you keep quiet when the grown-ups are talking. You'll understand why when you're older.)Notvelty wrote:There is that. Rules are necessary for children. Why? So that those rules can be used by the adults for control.Vigilant wrote: Two things adolescent boys want to know:
1) Who is in charge?
2) What are the rules?
Of course I have children. Are you trying to be deliberately offensive?
I invite you to make the same comment of Vigilant, with whom I was agreeing, because frankly I do not have the inclination to further bandy words with a failed public servant.
-----------
Notvelty
Notvelty
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
I think Greyed was condescending to Notvelty, perhaps misunderstanding him or her, and Notvelty fired back hard, which was fair play. But it's best to drop it now because bickering among ourselves on non-issues doesn't move forward the purposes of this website, and because Zoloft might get his bloody axe out.Notvelty and Greyed.out.fields wrote:
...
...
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.
- Vigilant
- Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
- Posts: 31699
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
- Wikipedia User: Vigilant
- Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
And by adolescent boys so that they know where they an push...right up to the line.Notvelty wrote:There is that. Rules are necessary for children. Why? So that those rules can be used by the adults for control.Vigilant wrote: Two things adolescent boys want to know:
1) Who is in charge?
2) What are the rules?
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Jimbo has spoken, and the discussion has been closed. The multiple instances of conflict of interest resting with New York Law School, Jimmy Wales is "not likely to take any interest in it".
I really don't understand how some of you can continue to give away your talent and labor working on Wikipedia for free, while its board of trustees has this fraud as "Emeritus Chair", collecting five-figure payments for hour-long presentations.
I really don't understand how some of you can continue to give away your talent and labor working on Wikipedia for free, while its board of trustees has this fraud as "Emeritus Chair", collecting five-figure payments for hour-long presentations.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
-
- Retired
- Posts: 2723
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
- Wikipedia User: tiucsibgod
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
But his reply basically says it is unethical of the NYLS - his views on conflict of interest are well known and he has no need to repeat himself further, he has no need to say more. He is clearly and unambiguously complaining about both the NYLS and the organisers. How we are supposed to act on this opprobrium is unclear, but I think he has delegated to the community.thekohser wrote:Jimbo has spoken, and the discussion has been closed. The multiple instances of conflict of interest resting with New York Law School, Jimmy Wales is "not likely to take any interest in it".
I really don't understand how some of you can continue to give away your talent and labor working on Wikipedia for free, while its board of trustees has this fraud as "Emeritus Chair", collecting five-figure payments for hour-long presentations.
Time for a new signature.
-
- Retired
- Posts: 4130
- Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:40 pm
- Wikipedia User: Scott
- Location: London
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
How on Earth did you get that out of "I am very strongly supportive of the decision taken to exclude Gregory Kohs from WikiConference USA"?dogbiscuit wrote: his reply basically says it is unethical of the NYLS
My question, to this esteemed Wiki community, is this: Do you think that a Wiki could successfully generate a useful encyclopedia? -- JimboWales
Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)
Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)
-
- Retired
- Posts: 2723
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
- Wikipedia User: tiucsibgod
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
I got it out of "My position on conflict of interest editing is well known and has been explained many times, so there should be nothing else for me to say about that in this context."Hex wrote:How on Earth did you get that out of "I am very strongly supportive of the decision taken to exclude Gregory Kohs from WikiConference USA"?dogbiscuit wrote: his reply basically says it is unethical of the NYLS
Time for a new signature.
- Randy from Boise
- Been Around Forever
- Posts: 12196
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
- Wikipedia User: Carrite
- Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
- Actual Name: Tim Davenport
- Nom de plume: T. Chandler
- Location: Boise, Idaho
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Agreed. He expresses no view about NYLS, supports Ms. Baek & Co. and their decision to preemptively ban Mr. Kohs, and shuts it down because Mongo and Writegeist are getting personal...Hex wrote:How on Earth did you get that out of "I am very strongly supportive of the decision taken to exclude Gregory Kohs from WikiConference USA"?dogbiscuit wrote: his reply basically says it is unethical of the NYLS
RfB
Personal to Mongo: Hey, dumbass, I'm nobody's "meatpuppet"....
Addenda: I see the criticism of NYLS for violating so-called "bright line" now that Greg points it out below.
Last edited by Randy from Boise on Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Right, in Jimbo's defense, he is basically saying two different things. First, he thinks the conference organizers did the right thing to block me from the conference, regardless of where it was held. Second, he thinks that the New York Law School editing its own Wikipedia article and associated BLPs is wrong by the Bright Line Rule, and that this is regardless of my being banned from their property on one weekend in May.dogbiscuit wrote:I got it out of "My position on conflict of interest editing is well known and has been explained many times, so there should be nothing else for me to say about that in this context."Hex wrote:How on Earth did you get that out of "I am very strongly supportive of the decision taken to exclude Gregory Kohs from WikiConference USA"?dogbiscuit wrote: his reply basically says it is unethical of the NYLS
Third, though, is that he completely dodged the problem of Andrew Crowell saying that the conference was "independent" of the NYLS, when in fact it was directed by a NYLS employee who negotiated $40,000 of relief on space rental costs.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
- Vigilant
- Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
- Posts: 31699
- Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
- Wikipedia User: Vigilant
- Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
This is an interesting exchange:
Did Writegeist really just call the great Mongo a bonehead?It would have been encouraging to read an answer that conveyed genuinely open engagement with the concerns expressed. And even perhaps an intention to act. Writegeist (talk) 20:47, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
I dunno...he could have responded as I did, which would have been to remove this nonsense from his page as soon as he saw it. I don't see any reason to give a banned editor and or his meatpuppets a place to post their conspiracy theories. Like I stated above...this should be hatted.--MONGO 01:43, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
A banned editor, meatpuppets, a bonehead---takes all sorts, huh? Writegeist (talk) 06:00, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Well, MONGO is in fact removing COI templates from New York Law School (T-H-L), Anthony Crowell (T-H-L), and Carole Post (T-H-L), which would have helped to inform Wikipedia readers that these articles have been substantially (if not mostly) written by paid PR employees of New York Law School. MONGO is basically saying, "banned user is BANNED!", and that is the end of his duty of care to the readers of Wikipedia.Vigilant wrote:Did Writegeist really just call the great Mongo a bonehead?
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
- Midsize Jake
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9933
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:10 pm
- Wikipedia Review Member: Somey
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
MONGO just pawn in game of life...thekohser wrote:Well, MONGO is in fact removing COI templates from New York Law School (T-H-L), Anthony Crowell (T-H-L), and Carole Post (T-H-L), which would have helped to inform Wikipedia readers that these articles have been substantially (if not mostly) written by paid PR employees of New York Law School.
I have to say though, in many respects this should be a bigger scandal than their decision to ban (or "disinvite" if they prefer) you from the conference itself. IMO, most uninvolved people who follow such things could probably forgive the Wikimedia NYC people for keeping certain people out even if they just think they have a good reason, despite what they actually say or how the conference was advertised. But this thing with the NYLS is, like Jimbo has said in the past, a "Bright Line Rule," being violated by the very people who have given them free space for a fairly important conference.
People are much more likely to believe there was a quid pro quo going on there, because that sort of thing happens in the real world, all the time.
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
I wonder if New York Law School realizes that had the Wikimedia NYC just let me peacefully attend the conference, then the world likely would have never heard about the following facts:
* The New York Law School's Dean, Anthony Crowell, blatantly misinformed about the "independent" organizer of the conference (Jennifer Baek) who is their employee
* The Wikipedia COI editing of New York Law School by Andrea Juncos (Director of Communications at NYLS)
* The Wikipedia COI editing of two Wikipedia BLPs about the school's Dean and their Strategy Officer
* The $40,000 value of the meeting space that was transformed into a sinister "Friendly Space"
* The WMF crony Kevin Gorman overslept his Monday morning flight out of New York (which had been completely subsidized by a donor-money grant) because he stayed out partying until 5 AM
* The New York Law School ranks dead last among that state's 15 law schools in terms of percentage of graduates who can pass the bar exam on the first try
* A "Jump Start" bar prep program that Crowell launched to compensate students $500 for studying for the bar, was described by one reporter as "essentially bribing students to study"
Great job, Wikimedia NYC, Jennifer Baek, Ira Brad Matetsky, David Goodman, Dorothy Howard, Kevin Gorman, Anthony Crowell, and all your henchmen and women! You brought about 10 times more negative attention on the New York Law School than any positive attention gained from hosting your sham of an "open" conference.
* The New York Law School's Dean, Anthony Crowell, blatantly misinformed about the "independent" organizer of the conference (Jennifer Baek) who is their employee
* The Wikipedia COI editing of New York Law School by Andrea Juncos (Director of Communications at NYLS)
* The Wikipedia COI editing of two Wikipedia BLPs about the school's Dean and their Strategy Officer
* The $40,000 value of the meeting space that was transformed into a sinister "Friendly Space"
* The WMF crony Kevin Gorman overslept his Monday morning flight out of New York (which had been completely subsidized by a donor-money grant) because he stayed out partying until 5 AM
* The New York Law School ranks dead last among that state's 15 law schools in terms of percentage of graduates who can pass the bar exam on the first try
* A "Jump Start" bar prep program that Crowell launched to compensate students $500 for studying for the bar, was described by one reporter as "essentially bribing students to study"
Great job, Wikimedia NYC, Jennifer Baek, Ira Brad Matetsky, David Goodman, Dorothy Howard, Kevin Gorman, Anthony Crowell, and all your henchmen and women! You brought about 10 times more negative attention on the New York Law School than any positive attention gained from hosting your sham of an "open" conference.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
I'm not sure if this is the right thread.
Debate on Banned Wikipedia Speaker Is Cut Off
O'Dwyer's PR News, 19 June 2014 link
Petitioning Wikipedia
Make Wikipedia conferences truly open to all by allowing Greg Kohs to attend: link
Debate on Banned Wikipedia Speaker Is Cut Off
O'Dwyer's PR News, 19 June 2014 link
Change.orgJimmy Wales, co-founder of Wikipedia, has decreed an end to arguing over whether Gregory Kohs should have been allowed to speak at WP’s meeting May 30-June 1 at New York Law School. Wales, who describes himself as the “sole founder” of WP, posted this statement on WP today after more than 10,000 words had been expended on it:"{{hat}}" is a wiki template that "closes" a discussion. WP has an appeal process but whether this will be allowed remains to be seen. Change.org is collecting signatures on a petition to allow Kohs to speak at WP meetings.{{hat|This conversation appears to have run its course. I am very strongly supportive of the decision taken to exclude Gregory Kohs from WikiConference USA. I know nothing about the other editors he is complaining about and I'm not likely to take any interest in it. My position on conflict of interest editing is well known and has been explained many times, so there should be nothing else for me to say about that in this context.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] ([[User talk:Jimbo Wales#top|talk]]) 08:10, 19 June 2014
(UTC)}}
Wales, born in Huntsville, Ala., where he "attended Randolph School, a university preparatory school, earning bachelor's and master’s degrees in finance" (according to his bio on WP), co-founded WP in 2001 with "Larry Sanger and others." The WP write-up notes that Wales has "disputed" the co-founding statement, "declaring himself the sole founder." [...]
Petitioning Wikipedia
Make Wikipedia conferences truly open to all by allowing Greg Kohs to attend: link
Greg was not allowed to attend the Wikiconference USA in New York 2014, although the conference description stated that it was open to all.
I pledge that I won't attend any Wikipedia-related conferences to which Greg Kohs is not invited if he meets all other criteria of attendees.
The Wikipedia community that I belong to is not about exclusion
To:
Wikipedia
Make Wikipedia conferences truly open to all by allowing Greg Kohs to attend
Sincerely,
[Your name]
former Living Person
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Since Newyorkbrad was being very lazy and/or unresponsive to my requests for more information about why the Wikimedia NYC cancelled my registration and interfered with an income-earning contract I had with O'Dwyer PR, I e-mailed him today, saying that I might give Wikimedia NYC finance guy Peter Hess a call, in hopes that he would be more conversational than Ira Matetsky has been.
That brought a relatively speedy reply from Brad:
That brought a relatively speedy reply from Brad:
Mr. Hess has asked me to advise you that he will not speak to you and that you should not call him.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
- Kelly Martin
- Habitué
- Posts: 3375
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:30 am
- Location: EN61bw
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
You should ask Mr. Matetsky whether he is actually representing Mr. Hess, or if his communication on behalf of Mr. Hess is merely provided as a courtesy.thekohser wrote:Since Newyorkbrad was being very lazy and/or unresponsive to my requests for more information about why the Wikimedia NYC cancelled my registration and interfered with an income-earning contract I had with O'Dwyer PR, I e-mailed him today, saying that I might give Wikimedia NYC finance guy Peter Hess a call, in hopes that he would be more conversational than Ira Matetsky has been.
That brought a relatively speedy reply from Brad:
Mr. Hess has asked me to advise you that he will not speak to you and that you should not call him.
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
From what you say, Kohser, Brad was blowing off your reasonable requests. That's typically what is occurring when time keeps going by without a response. It's very rude of him. The whole "you can't come to Wikiconference USA, so say we all, however we won't tell you any reason" is very rude of all of them.Kelly Martin wrote:You should ask Mr. Matetsky whether he is actually representing Mr. Hess, or if his communication on behalf of Mr. Hess is merely provided as a courtesy.thekohser wrote:Since Newyorkbrad was being very lazy and/or unresponsive to my requests for more information about why the Wikimedia NYC cancelled my registration and interfered with an income-earning contract I had with O'Dwyer PR, I e-mailed him today, saying that I might give Wikimedia NYC finance guy Peter Hess a call, in hopes that he would be more conversational than Ira Matetsky has been.
That brought a relatively speedy reply from Brad:
Mr. Hess has asked me to advise you that he will not speak to you and that you should not call him.
At least, by the press accounts, Wikiconference USA turned out to be a weak, sophomoric affair, spliced with nerds proclaiming themselves superior to other nerds because they didn't get as much pizza sauce on their shirts, making sexist remarks to a woman claimed not among their circle and questioning her education level, and later calling a liar the reporter that wrote one of them had started a "Wikipedia babies" article on children of prominent Wikipedians, which was probably true, if not that then a reasonable misunderstanding.
Do you suppose Brad actually checked with Peter Hess, or is he just paraphrasing liberally past communications? It would speak pretty poorly of both that Hess has gofer Matetsky handling his calls that he is not man enough to take himself.
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Your sexist comment would be a gross violation of the Friendly Space Policy!Triptych wrote:...he is not man enough to take himself.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
The Lost and Found Legacy of Barbara Ringer
Remembering one of the architects of American copyright law—and one of the legal world's pioneering women
by Amanda Levendowski
The Atlantic, 11 July 2014 link
Levendowski (T-C-L)
This is the first time I have read of any good that came out of WikiConUSA (30 May - 1 June 2014). Levendowski's 94 edits (link) began on 1 June and continued until 5 June (link), and she is now responsible for 79.9% of the article's content (link).
Remembering one of the architects of American copyright law—and one of the legal world's pioneering women
by Amanda Levendowski
The Atlantic, 11 July 2014 link
Barbara_Ringer (T-H-L)I came across a quote a few weeks ago—one that so perfectly encapsulates the outdatedness and skepticism surrounding copyright law—that I couldn’t believe I hadn’t seen before: “The 1976 Copyright Act is a good 1950 copyright law.” It was attributed to someone I didn’t know: Barbara Ringer.
[... biography of Ms Ringer ...]
When I read the existing Wikipedia page about Barbara Ringer, though, I was unimpressed. I had been editing Wikipedia since college, so I decided to learn about Ringer by re-writing her Wikipedia article as part of the WikiCon 2014 article edit-a-thon. What I found was the story of a brilliant woman ahead of her time and—in some ways, still—ahead of ours. [...]
Levendowski (T-C-L)
This is the first time I have read of any good that came out of WikiConUSA (30 May - 1 June 2014). Levendowski's 94 edits (link) began on 1 June and continued until 5 June (link), and she is now responsible for 79.9% of the article's content (link).
former Living Person
- Randy from Boise
- Been Around Forever
- Posts: 12196
- Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
- Wikipedia User: Carrite
- Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
- Actual Name: Tim Davenport
- Nom de plume: T. Chandler
- Location: Boise, Idaho
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Yes, in friendly Sumanahspeak this should be "...is not person enough to take themself."thekohser wrote:Your sexist comment would be a gross violation of the Friendly Space Policy!Triptych wrote:...he is not man enough to take himself.
RfB
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Looking at Erik Moeller's userpage, it says he lives on "Planet Wikimedia". Of course, it's just another website, but upon it, there's this:
Creating Safe Spaces
by Amanda Menking
Wikimedia Foundation Blog, July 14, 2014
link
Someone should invite this person to Wikipediocracy.
Creating Safe Spaces
by Amanda Menking
Wikimedia Foundation Blog, July 14, 2014
link
(emphasis added)blah blah blah
This past month I’ve been watching, reading and thinking. I’ve also been revisiting my goals. Now, the first goal I’d like to accomplish is to help reinvigorate the gender gap discussion by creating a central place where the international Wikipedia community can document all of the terrific ideas that have been shared, conversations that have taken place and work that has been done to address the gap. Currently, the conversations are, at times, disparate and dispersed. And, sometimes, they aren’t safe. Often the stakeholders–like cyclists and motorists–have such different goals and values that conflict is inevitable. However, as studies[1] have shown, conflict can be productive and collaborative when differing voices are respected, when policies are thoughtfully constructed and when power is shared.
Someone should invite this person to Wikipediocracy.
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
What, pray tell, is a "safe" conversation?
Would that be like a conversation where someone doesn't in an "informal jokey" way suggest stabbing a woman in the throat with a pen, then gleefully watch as she slowly dies?
Would that be like a conversation where someone doesn't in an "informal jokey" way suggest stabbing a woman in the throat with a pen, then gleefully watch as she slowly dies?
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
- Midsize Jake
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9933
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:10 pm
- Wikipedia Review Member: Somey
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
With Wikipedians, there's such a fine line between "a forum where people who disagree with you are not allowed to insult or threaten you" and "a forum where nobody disagrees with you at all." And it doesn't help that they keep blurring that line, either.thekohser wrote:What, pray tell, is a "safe" conversation?
This, then, is what we call the "Blurry Fine Line."
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
thekohser wrote:What, pray tell, is a "safe" conversation?
Would that be like a conversation where someone doesn't in an "informal jokey" way suggest stabbing a woman in the throat with a pen, then gleefully watch as she slowly dies?
You should let her know that you'd like to participate. It truly is a collaborative effort.If you’d like to participate in any of this work, please let me know. Creating safe spaces is a truly collaborative effort.
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
That is an interesting idea, Mac. Done.mac wrote: You should let her know that you'd like to participate. It truly is a collaborative effort.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
thekohser wrote:That is an interesting idea, Mac. Done.mac wrote: You should let her know that you'd like to participate. It truly is a collaborative effort.
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
But.. but.. then they can't be -more- of a victim than other victims, thereby displaying their moral superiority.Vigilant wrote:
Stop being a victim.
So how do you tell when one of these "safe places" is actually just a single-view echo chamber? Well, it's easy. It's when they use the term "safe place".
-----------
Notvelty
Notvelty
- SB_Johnny
- Habitué
- Posts: 4640
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:26 am
- Wikipedia User: SB_Johnny
- Wikipedia Review Member: SB_Johnny
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Well, no. It's a bright line that is so blindingly bright that you can't even look at anything that's anywhere near it without a seriously fashionable pair of shades (Sue and Lila keep them on their heads, I've heard). It's so bright that anyone who claims to know where it is is obviously just trolling, because no mere mortal could ever look at the line directly.Midsize Jake wrote:With Wikipedians, there's such a fine line between "a forum where people who disagree with you are not allowed to insult or threaten you" and "a forum where nobody disagrees with you at all." And it doesn't help that they keep blurring that line, either.thekohser wrote:What, pray tell, is a "safe" conversation?
This, then, is what we call the "Blurry Fine Line."
This is not a signature.✌
- Kiefer.Wolfowitz
- Gregarious
- Posts: 956
- Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:25 pm
- Wikipedia User: Kiefer.Wolfowitz
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Is There in Truth No Beauty? (T-H-L)SB_Johnny wrote:Well, no. It's a bright line that is so blindingly bright that you can't even look at anything that's anywhere near it without a seriously fashionable pair of shades (Sue and Lila keep them on their heads, I've heard). It's so bright that anyone who claims to know where it is is obviously just trolling, because no mere mortal could ever look at the line directly.Midsize Jake wrote:With Wikipedians, there's such a fine line between "a forum where people who disagree with you are not allowed to insult or threaten you" and "a forum where nobody disagrees with you at all." And it doesn't help that they keep blurring that line, either.thekohser wrote:What, pray tell, is a "safe" conversation?
This, then, is what we call the "Blurry Fine Line."
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
mac wrote:thekohser wrote:That is an interesting idea, Mac. Done.mac wrote: You should let her know that you'd like to participate. It truly is a collaborative effort.
Is it typical for Wikimedia blogs to close their comments section after less than two days?Comments are closed.
- Midsize Jake
- Site Admin
- Posts: 9933
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:10 pm
- Wikipedia Review Member: Somey
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
I don't follow it regularly, but from what I gather, it's unusual for them to allow comments at all on most postings. Remember that this is a Wordpress blog, and it doesn't appear to be integrated into Meta or any of the other wikimedia.org wikis - you probably have to request a separate Wordpress User ID to leave comments, and when you do, they don't always display correctly (or display, period). The bloggers themselves are probably given the choice as to whether or not to allow them, with "not" being the default, and they probably read them off the RSS feed if they even see them at all.mac wrote:Is it typical for Wikimedia blogs to close their comments section after less than two days?Comments are closed.
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Shoot, I should have commented yesterday when the comment box was open. My guess is that they were alerted to this thread and decided that blog post comments aren't "safe conversations".Midsize Jake wrote:I don't follow it regularly, but from what I gather, it's unusual for them to allow comments at all on most postings. Remember that this is a Wordpress blog, and it doesn't appear to be integrated into Meta or any of the other wikimedia.org wikis - you probably have to request a separate Wordpress User ID to leave comments, and when you do, they don't always display correctly (or display, period). The bloggers themselves are probably given the choice as to whether or not to allow them, with "not" being the default, and they probably read them off the RSS feed if they even see them at all.mac wrote:Is it typical for Wikimedia blogs to close their comments section after less than two days?Comments are closed.
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
I do know this -- Amanda sent me an e-mail yesterday, thanking me for my note on Meta, asking if we might talk soon. I replied within minutes, giving her a few times where it is generally good for me to talk. Haven't heard from her again in 18 hours.mac wrote:Shoot, I should have commented yesterday when the comment box was open. My guess is that they were alerted to this thread and decided that blog post comments aren't "safe conversations".Midsize Jake wrote:I don't follow it regularly, but from what I gather, it's unusual for them to allow comments at all on most postings. Remember that this is a Wordpress blog, and it doesn't appear to be integrated into Meta or any of the other wikimedia.org wikis - you probably have to request a separate Wordpress User ID to leave comments, and when you do, they don't always display correctly (or display, period). The bloggers themselves are probably given the choice as to whether or not to allow them, with "not" being the default, and they probably read them off the RSS feed if they even see them at all.mac wrote:Is it typical for Wikimedia blogs to close their comments section after less than two days?Comments are closed.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
- Zoloft
- Trustee
- Posts: 14050
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
- Wikipedia User: Stanistani
- Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
- Actual Name: William Burns
- Nom de plume: William Burns
- Location: San Diego
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
No problem.Vigilant wrote:OK.Zoloft wrote:I would like us to terminate this martial arts sidebar and return to the main topic while noting that I support the message of empowering the young with the arts of self-defense.
Would you mind splitting the thread?
Locking for a minute.
My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
- Actual mug ◄
- Uncle Cornpone
- Zoloft bouncy pill-thing
- Zoloft
- Trustee
- Posts: 14050
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
- Wikipedia User: Stanistani
- Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
- Actual Name: William Burns
- Nom de plume: William Burns
- Location: San Diego
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Split to off-topic area. My mobile device acting up, so no link. Sorry.Zoloft wrote:No problem.Vigilant wrote:OK.Zoloft wrote:I would like us to terminate this martial arts sidebar and return to the main topic while noting that I support the message of empowering the young with the arts of self-defense.
Would you mind splitting the thread?
Locking for a minute.
My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
- Actual mug ◄
- Uncle Cornpone
- Zoloft bouncy pill-thing
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Amanda conducted her telephone interview with me last night. We spoke for almost 90 minutes. It sounds like she'll have a good amount of material to cover -- the question will be what sort of "position" she takes in her analysis. To me, she sounds dedicated to the principles of objectivity, and her angle is less about understanding why there is a gender gap on Wikipedia, but more about understanding how different people and groups talk about and frame the gender gap discussion.thekohser wrote:I do know this -- Amanda sent me an e-mail yesterday, thanking me for my note on Meta, asking if we might talk soon. I replied within minutes, giving her a few times where it is generally good for me to talk. Haven't heard from her again in 18 hours.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
We can add MONGO (T-C-L) to the list of Wikipedia henchmen who will go out of their way to polish up the negative information about Wikiconference USA host, New York Law School, making sure that average Wikipedia readers don't become aware that New York Law School employees have been writing much of Wikipedia's content about New York Law School and its senior executives, or that there's anything "bad" happening at New York Law School.
MONGO will preserve New York Law School's fake, polished stories on Wikipedia, won't you MONGO? That's a good MONGO.
MONGO will preserve New York Law School's fake, polished stories on Wikipedia, won't you MONGO? That's a good MONGO.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
- The Devil's Advocate
- Habitué
- Posts: 1908
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:19 am
- Wikipedia User: The Devil's Advocate
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
"For those who stubbornly seek freedom around the world, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination."
- Noam Chomsky
-
- Posts: 10891
- Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
- Location: hell
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Got it, thanks. One would think that third RFA would have dissuaded him by now, but nope!thekohser wrote:We can add MONGO (T-C-L) to the list of Wikipedia henchmen who will go out of their way to polish up the negative information about Wikiconference USA host, New York Law School, making sure that average Wikipedia readers don't become aware that New York Law School employees have been writing much of Wikipedia's content about New York Law School and its senior executives, or that there's anything "bad" happening at New York Law School.
MONGO will preserve New York Law School's fake, polished stories on Wikipedia, won't you MONGO? That's a good MONGO.
Perhaps this could be made into a blog post?
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
Received this e-mail in response to my complaint about MONGO outing another user:thekohser wrote:We can add MONGO (T-C-L) to the list of Wikipedia henchmen who will go out of their way to polish up the negative information about Wikiconference USA host, New York Law School, making sure that average Wikipedia readers don't become aware that New York Law School employees have been writing much of Wikipedia's content about New York Law School and its senior executives, or that there's anything "bad" happening at New York Law School.
MONGO will preserve New York Law School's fake, polished stories on Wikipedia, won't you MONGO? That's a good MONGO.
Now that we have this official interpretation of policy, and considering that no CheckUser or sockpuppet investigation was conducted on User55810e7557a3a (to prove it was a "banned user"), what new avenues does this give Wikipedia critics to explore?We appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Unfortunately, the edits associated with your request cannot be suppressed under our policy since no outing took place. Spotting a banned user is not outing.
Sincerely,
The English Wikipedia Oversight team
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."
- TungstenCarbide
- Habitué
- Posts: 2592
- Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:51 am
- Wikipedia User: TungstenCarbide
- Wikipedia Review Member: TungstenCarbide
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
thekohser wrote:thekohser wrote:...We appreciate you bringing this to our attention. Unfortunately, the edits associated with your request cannot be suppressed under our policy since no outing took place. Spotting a banned user is not outing.
Sincerely,
The English Wikipedia Oversight team
Now that we have this official interpretation of policy, and considering that no CheckUser or sockpuppet investigation was conducted on User55810e7557a3a (to prove it was a "banned user"), what new avenues does this give Wikipedia critics to explore?
'At Wikipedia, your anonymity is secure (unless we don't like you).'
Gone hiking. also, beware of women with crazy head gear and a dagger.
- Poetlister
- Genius
- Posts: 25599
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
- Nom de plume: Poetlister
- Location: London, living in a similar way
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
An administrator said it was. WP:AGF, we all believe him.thekohser wrote:no CheckUser or sockpuppet investigation was conducted on User55810e7557a3a (to prove it was a "banned user")
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche
- thekohser
- Majordomo
- Posts: 13408
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
- Wikipedia User: Thekohser
- Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
- Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
- Location: United States
- Contact:
Re: Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014
And wouldn't you know, paid editor David King (a.k.a. CorporateM (T-C-L)) is now on the New York Law School scene, doing 17 kilobytes worth of damage control.
That's it, Wikipedians... silence the guy who brings a problem to your attention, then quietly get a paid specialist to tidy up the embarrassment.
That's it, Wikipedians... silence the guy who brings a problem to your attention, then quietly get a paid specialist to tidy up the embarrassment.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."