Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by roger_pearse » Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:45 pm

Vigilant wrote:
I'm adding a bit here though I've been thoroughly informed that nobody at Wikipedia cares and nobody will help. ....In my case, the pharmaceutical interests have added one (and then when I objected, added TWO) unreliable cites to disparage my bio pages and falsely label me "anti-vaccine. ... when I vehemently objected to the paid agenda editing, the Wikipedia counsel in essence threatened me with the "Streisand effect"-- that the more I attempt to fix the false information, the bigger the agenda editors will make it. That doesn't seem like a way to run an encyclopaedia that seeks credibility.
I think wikipedia might have stepped in it hard with this reporter.
This is an interesting note - thank you.

I have no idea whether her complaint about the specific issue is sound. But her complaint about how she was dealt with -- contemptuously -- is evidently sound.

It's not what you do, it's how you do it. Even if her original concern was mendacious (I do not say it is), any human being has the right to be treated as a human being with emotions and feelings. "Do not treat others as you would not like to be treated yourself" is a fairly simple ethical principle. Few people appreciate a system that threatens to punish them if they complain.

This unethical approach is not the fault of individual editors and admins (vile though some of these are), but is structural. The system itself encourages such people to behave in a nasty way. I suspect that most of the criticism of Wikipedia is down to this type of behaviour more than anything else.

It could be fixed.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:13 pm

dogbiscuit wrote: Charities are given certain financial advantages on the expectation that they act (only) for the public good. As over the years, charities have been subverted for whatever reason, the rules governing charities are quite strict. Trustees, for example, can never be paid for their work in running the charity, and must absolutely discount any personal advantage in any decision they make, they must set their entire personal life to one side while being part of the charity.

There are two fundamental issues here: one the trustees of a charity being involved in business dealings which potentially benefit an individual without being directly in line with the objectives of the charity (simple example, the subversion of DYK and the subsequent concerns raised that WM UK seem to be involved in messing about with Wikipedia to the detriment of the project); secondly, we have an individual who has a business model that depends on Wikipedia, and is using WM UK as a means to inflate his standing with the customers, and also seems to have been gaining business out of the charity.
Take a report like Gibraltarpedia: A New Way To Market The Rock", or a quote like "The enthusiasm and conviction radiating from both the Min. for Tourism, Neil Costa and Clive Finlayson who came up with the idea of marketing Gibraltar as a tourist product through Wikipedia which the Ministry for Tourism has embarked upon, leaves one without a doubt that the venture will truly be a success."

The Foundation advertises itself as a charitable educational enterprise, not a commercial one. This sort of thing is simply not part of the Foundation's mission as advertised to the public. It isn't what its unpaid volunteers sign up for. If a project like this were run on bona fide grounds, and aligned with the stated goals of this project, it would be run in cooperation with Gibraltar's Department of Education, not Gibraltar's Tourism Ministry.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:21 pm

Peter Damian wrote:Bamkin: The video made it clear that the minister for tourism was involved and that this was not a WMUK project.
Morton: You mean the video that ends with the words "Wikimedia UK are looking forward to supporting the project"?
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/pri ... 09239.html
Here is how to fix the Wikimedia UK mailing list links:

https://lists.wikimedia.org/[b]mailman/private[/b]/wikimediauk-l/2012-September/009239.html (requires password)

https://lists.wikimedia.org/[b]pipermail[/b]/wikimediauk-l/2012-September/009239.html (does not require password)

There is also a mirror of the entire list at http://www.mail-archive.com/wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org/maillist.html#05514

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:25 pm

HRIP7 wrote:If a project like this were run on bona fide grounds, and aligned with the stated goals of this project, it would be run in cooperation with Gibraltar's Department of Education, not Gibraltar's Tourism Ministry.
Presumably the department of education would run for the hills screaming when the WMUK freak show knocked on the door.

(If the WMUK knocked on the door of my local school board, they would just calmly mention that they are NRA members while shooing them out the door, but poor Gibraltar is stuck with that old fading empire that doesn't have a second amendment :D.)
This is not a signature.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Tippi Hadron » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:30 pm


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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Anroth » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:37 pm

roger_pearse wrote: It's not what you do, it's how you do it. Even if her original concern was mendacious (I do not say it is), any human being has the right to be treated as a human being with emotions and feelings. "Do not treat others as you would not like to be treated yourself" is a fairly simple ethical principle. Few people appreciate a system that threatens to punish them if they complain.
The original IP who raised the issue (if it was the subject) basically ranted and raved without engaging in any meaningful way. It was explained clearly why what they were removing was staying. Repeatedly. And not in any nasty way etc. "What you are trying to do is not going to happen, this is why its not going to happen, if you want to change it you need to do this and even then it may not happen".

Like many other subjects of BLP's, they wanted control over their own and just couldnt accept it wasnt going to happen.

And lest you mistake me for being a BLP hatchetman, I am quite happy to go in and take out stuff thats even slightly controversial from bad sources. In this case it just wasnt, and even after a re-write to make it more neutral the edit-warring IP wanted still more sanitising.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by DanMurphy » Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:50 pm

A Wikipedia editor is now wondering if their Gibraltarpedia article should have a controversy section.

Also, it would seem that there are now enough reliable sources for an article on Roger Bamkin. I would not actually condone creating one (I wrote small bios of two people, a very prominent UN official and a German actor, at Wikipedia and have come to regret that as an ethical lapse), but given how many people are lashed to that pillory post every day, I would take a certain malicious pleasure in an insider getting a taste of their own medicine. (Yes, I'm not a particularly nice man.) Perhaps a section in their QRpedia article.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by DanMurphy » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:04 pm

Ah, a Wikipedia editor just had that thought. Chris "Prioryman" Owen to the rescue!

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Anroth » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:08 pm

I will give someone a shiny penny if they revert prioryman for having a COI in editing articles related to Gibraltar and related to Bamkin :D

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by 86Mookie » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:38 pm

Anroth wrote:I will give someone a shiny penny if they revert prioryman for having a COI in editing articles related to Gibraltar and related to Bamkin :D
You owe SB Johnny $.01.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by DanMurphy » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:44 pm

Deeper into the mire I go.

With this edit Mr. Bamkin imports a lot of information from Discovergibraltar.com. As part of his paid gig with the Gibraltar Tourism Ministry Bamkin convinced the owner of that website to put his work under a free license, with the express idea that a lot of it would be imported wholesale into Wikipedia. The information is highly specific, fairly trivial, and probably not the sort of thing that belongs in an encyclopedia article. For instance:
[16] & [18] - Cartridge Store

There were two types of cartridge 44 lb. (20 kg) and 70 lb (32 kg) contained in bags and tins.
[17] - Cartridge Hoist

At the end of this corridor (and in 12 above) was an apparatus for hoisting cartridges and shells to the guns above.
[20] - Expense Magazines

Cartridges and Projectiles were stored, ready for use, in these four limestone buildings.

The northern most (No 1 in RA terms) contained hoist apparatus for lifting shells from the storage magazines below. It was surmounted, in WWII, by a Bren gun position - since removed.
No 2 also had a hoist (for cartridges) and was surmounted from 1963 until 1956 with a 90 cm anti aircraft serachlight (AASL). This AASL was 200 million condlepower and could project a concentrated beam 20,000 feet (3.8 miles: 6km).
No 3 was surmounted by a 3" anti aircraft rocket projector, installed on 16th October, 1942 and since removed.
No 4 is still surmounted by a bofors 40mm light anti aircraft gun position, completed on 16th November 1941.

[21] - RML Gun Positions

From 1873 to about 1892, 10" rifled muzzle loading guns were positioned in each of the three shielded embrasures. Made in Woolwich, they fired a 400lb (181 kg) projectiles to a range of about 4,500 yards (2.6 miles: 4 km). The gun fired and was protected , from seabounbre attack, by a sandwich of armour plate and tyeack, specially invented for use here and known universally as "Gibraltar Shields".
Is the information accurate? Who knows? The Discovergibraltar guy clearly thinks it's accurate. If I had to guess, he did the research himself, a classic enthusiastic amateur. Might it be wrong? Of course. Has there been any review, or is there information available on his sources and research methods? No.

The article was created expressly so it could be featured on the main page as a "Did you know." In this case, "Did you know that the tunnel beneath Parson's Lodge Battery originally carried a railway built to take stone to improve the Gibraltar Harbour?" Fascinating, I'm sure.

Over at Wikipedia, they are missing the big picture of how this is part of a slippery slope towards an erosion of their already lax standards. There is still a cult of "more! MOAR!" and practical disdain for the ideas about quality and specific care with knowledge (because the crowd will fix it, you see.) Who's to say if there were really only two types of cartridge, or that their specific weights were actually 44 and 70lbs? The crowd? How could "the crowd" check these claims for errors and correct them? Ah... by going to Discovergibraltar.com!

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by EricBarbour » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:47 pm

Pointless, gentlemen.

This whole scandal will blow over, and Bamkin and Co. will go right back to snorkeling organizations for Wiki-edit payments.
Prove me wrong. Instead of fighting with Owen, go and open an RFC, then an arbitration.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by DanMurphy » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:52 pm

Finally, I see that there is a Gibraltarpedia category. So far, 101 articles have been tagged with the discursive Gibraltarpedia.org logo (discursive because that url redirects to the Wikipedia project page). Are they planning a fork at some point? Who gave permission to plaster external domain names all over the place as part of a paid, private collaboration between a Wikimedia UK board member and the Gibraltar Tourism Ministry?

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Cla68 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:09 pm

Again, is there a way to check if WMUK has provided any travel grants for trips to Gibraltar over the past six months or so?

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by EricBarbour » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:13 pm

Cla68 wrote:Again, is there a way to check if WMUK has provided any travel grants for trips to Gibraltar over the past six months or so?
Nope. They publish grants pages, but there's little to no detail on any of them.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by DanMurphy » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:34 pm

They budgeted £15,000 for travel grants in 2012. Of this, £1,500 was set aside for "other projects." How much if any money has actually been handed out for travel is unclear.

They are planning on spending £30,000 on travel grants and £25,000 on project grants next year. I can find no information on project grants for this year.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Cla68 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:38 pm

DanMurphy wrote:They budgeted £15,000 for travel grants in 2012. Of this, £1,500 was set aside for "other projects." How much if any money has actually been handed out for travel is unclear.

They are planning on spending £30,000 on travel grants and £25,000 on project grants next year. I can find no information on project grants for this year.
Well then, we just need to ask them for the information. Who is the point of contact for information on the grants?

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by DanMurphy » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:41 pm

Mike Peel is responsible, according to those links to Wikimedia UK.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:43 pm

The Devil's Advocate has posted a section on Steve Virgin on Jimbo's talk page.

As was pointed out before, Virgin has a business relationship with Bamkin. What The Devil's Advocate is saying is that according to his LinkedIn profile, Virgin did work for the Gibraltar tourist board a few years back:
International Media Consultant
Corporact
1999 – 2001 (2 years) London, United Kingdom

- Built close personal relationships with clients for two ‘boutique’ PR agencies
- Authored award-nominated case studies (IMI 2001) based on client work for PwC
- Successfully ran launch of Paris office (Alacra)

- Organise of online ‘virtual Intellectual Property Rights event - 'Make Sparks Fly'
- Managed virtual press office site and ran UK PR campaign for Glibraltar Tourist Board
That is an astute observation by The Devil's Advocate. (By the way, Glibraltar is not my typo; it is thus spelt in Virgin's profile.)

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Tippi Hadron » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:55 pm

I’ve just had a look at the edit history of the article on Roger Bamkin’s QRpedia project. Guess what – it is full of the usual WMUK suspects. Andy Mabbett aka Pigsonthewing created it and Johnbod aka current WMUK treasurer John Byrne, WMUK secretary Mike Peel and Bamkin’s business partner John Cummings of Monmouthpedia and Gibraltarpedia fame have all put in appearances.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:06 am

Tippi Hadron wrote:I’ve just had a look at the edit history of the article on Roger Bamkin’s QRpedia project. Guess what – it is full of the usual WMUK suspects. Andy Mabbett aka Pigsonthewing created it and Johnbod aka current WMUK treasurer John Byrne, WMUK secretary Mike Peel and Bamkin’s business partner John Cummings of Monmouthpedia and Gibraltarpedia fame have all put in appearances.
Well, according to their own Draft best practice guidelines for PR, they should just be making suggestions on the talk page, and disclose their conflict of interest on the talk page, shouldn't they.

Oh the hypocrisy.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by EricBarbour » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:25 am

I have to ask: is this typical of the kind of corruption one sees in other British charities?

(You might find this amusing.)

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by DanMurphy » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:33 am

The video is interesting. (rush transcript while I listened once, ignored boring bits).

"We had something like 700 plus Google news articles the following morning. Which i think is a success for Bristol, putting Bristol on the map. Which is really what this is about. But can we help put Bristol on the map longer term, that's why we want to talk to you today." -Steve Virgin

Bamkin comes, does most of the talking. Says a Bristol museum, the M-shed, has a tiny Wikipedia article and that people probably won't visit something the town spent 27 million building unless the article is improved.

Bamkin touts reporters using Wikipedia to do research.

"You actually need an expert to improve most of our pages now." - Bamkin

Bamkin explains a project to promote the Derby Museum. "We invited wikipedians to work with Derby Museum and as a result of the meeting we had about 10-20 articles written on it... we were told that Wikipedians would never be allowed to write museum labels because we'd be putting people out of work etc.. but we did want to do it." (Now talks about the use of QR codes at the Derby Museum).

"Now we've got Wikipedians in Indonesia editing stuff inside the Derby Museum. It's pretty cool."

Talks about the cost of translation being overcome using free Wikipedia labor, so that museums can have QRcodes that lead to information in lots of languages.

"We made the front pages of the main Wikipedias (English, French etc..) it's giving us more hits to Derby Museum's web page, actually going from our page, clicking through to their page, it's fulfilling our mission to educate and to share information around the world, and it's raising the interest and status of the city. So hopefully I can talk a bit more about that, how it effects a city, because people actually see giving money to museums are kind of a waste of money if you like.. actually your museum funding can actually be a benefit to the city."

Talks about how 1,200 new articles in various languages were created on the Derby museum ("somehow, no German, I don't know why").

"We're also doing something for the tourist industry. So here we've got Joseph Wright Day, a big event in Derby, we were on four main pages, the mayor was giving out prizes to people in five different countries, and we were on the French wikipedia (main page) three times.

"So Bristol, have we got into Google? (slide says: "Improving a city's Google position on the web.") We've got 12,000 links in Derby, so, from a the position on Google is determined by the number of links you've got. The more links you've got, the higher you go up the ratings. On English Wikipedias, if you search for a museum in the UK I suspect the M-Shed is not going to be in the top five. But Derby Museum, smaller than this one, is possibly up there with the British Museum going 'we're famous' because we have got lots of articles written in Ukrainian and therefore on the Ukrainian Wikipedia we're an important museum. Who put Bristol on the map? If you look on the French Google map, i Haven't looked at the French google map, but if you haven't got an article in French how are French people going to want to know, when they click on Bristol, are they going to see the M-Shed, are they going to be able to see information about it? I don't think so because you don't have any information in French. So in conclusion (now shows slide on benefits. 1. QR codes add value to museums at no cost. 2. Wikipedia pages mean updating is easy. 3. Linking to smart phones creates accessibility. 4. Language support is possible using QRpedia. 5. Opens up your multi-ethnic city. 6. Curators create global impact for their museum and can't read it)."

Virgin back on (with slide that says "Bristol Museum and Banksy" and "120,000 queued in month)." : "So very quickly, we just saw this example from a couple of years back. A fantastic global footprint for Bristol, an amazing thing. 120000 people queued in one month to see it. More people viewed this (showing slide of a Wikimedia UK page on Bristol Museum and Banksy). If you had combined the two and had that being translated into God knows how many languages you would have had, what was that number earlier, 120,000 people in a month, you would have had millions. Because that really did put Bristol on the map. But by God, if we had that in 250 languages it would have been on the world map. And that's how I think we can involve everybody across the city, whatever race, color creed they are in writing the content. The museums could fulfill that desire to do that outreach that they're desperate to do for the cost of a piece of laminate and a piece of sticky paper that they could put in a discrete corner of everyone of their exhibits. It's a phenomenally cheap, very imaginative way to absolutely energize a city and put a city on the map. And there you go..."

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:58 am

Erik Möller has commented on the Wikimedia-l list:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 22066.html
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Richard Symonds
<richard.symonds at wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
> I believe part of the problem is that Roger may not be in the UK - he may
> well be in a hotel in Gibraltar with limited and expensive internet access.
> It's not yet been 48 hours since this all broke - give him some time to
> reply.

Roger's been providing a couple of responses on the UK mailing list
(which is publicly archived):

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 09235.html
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 09241.html

He also updated his declaration of interest on Wikimedia UK's website
to assert that his contract with Gibraltar does not include paid
editing:
https://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Declarati ... ger_Bamkin

But (personal opinions only):

- IMO the video shown at Wikimania didn't make the distinction of
roles sufficiently clear, and the confused media reporting should have
been in Wikimedia UK's interest to correct
(much like it has been in
WMF's interest to correct journalists who confuse WMF/Wikia). Were
attempts made to do so?

- The self-promotional aspect here (the degree to which MonmouthpediA
is clearly used by Roger has a way to advance his personal career) is
real and somewhat unsavory. Serving on a board of a non-profit ought
to be done first and foremost to serve that organization's objectives,
not to promote separate business goals.


Yes, it's possible to try very hard to keep these things separate (and
it appears that Roger's followed the guidelines the chapter's come up
with, and previously stepped down as chair to address this), but it
still creates a perception that for-profit and non-profit interests
are in contention, especially when projects like GibraltarpediA which
are conceived as part of an individual's business activities are
considered for the chapter's programmatic portfolio, and when that
individual is publicly identified with that organization's brand and
mission throughout.


Beyond obvious financial relationships, the intangible associations
("I am a trustee of Wikimedia UK") matter when conflicts of interest
are considered.


- My understanding is that qrpedia.org is still under individual
control, rather than chapter control. Is that correct? If so this is a
bit problematic, and it would be good to secure control of it (I'm not
offering that WMF would host it; I don't think the value/impact case
for QR codes is sufficiently strong for that, but it would be good for
at least a chapter to take responsibility for it for now).


It would be good to get some more clarity from the UK chapter on its
official position on these issues. I don't think this is a big
"scandal", it's the normal kind of confusion of roles and
responsibilities that occurs often in small and growing, volunteer-led
organizations.
Everyone involved is clearly first and foremost
motivated by contributing to Wikimedia's mission. But if this is not
fully and thoroughly addressed there's a risk that it will continue to
reflect poorly on Wikimedia.


Erik
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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Sweet Revenge » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:01 am

HRIP7 wrote:Erik Möller has commented on the Wikimedia-l list:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 22066.html
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Richard Symonds
<richard.symonds at wikimedia.org.uk> wrote:
> I believe part of the problem is that Roger may not be in the UK - he may
> well be in a hotel in Gibraltar with limited and expensive internet access.
> It's not yet been 48 hours since this all broke - give him some time to
> reply.
Limited internet access to the rescue again!

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Cla68 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:17 am

HRIP7 wrote:Erik Möller has commented on the Wikimedia-l list:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 22066.html
If you look past the polite language and qualifications used to soften the wording, it's a fairly severe rebuke of WMUK's actions and behavior. He is publicly criticizing WMUK's behavior, asking the organization to explain itself, and issuing specific directions on actions the he wants them to take with regard to certain aspects of the situation.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Tippi Hadron » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:22 am

DanMurphy wrote:Bamkin explains a project to promote the Derby Museum. "We invited wikipedians to work with Derby Museum and as a result of the meeting we had about 10-20 articles written on it...
And the main contributor to the Derby Museum and Art Gallery (T-H-L) article on Wikipedia? Victuallers.
According to Companies House, Victuallers Ltd is registered in Derby.

I am also intrigued by the links to the Coventry Tourist Information Centre and the Herbert Art Gallery & Museum (T-H-L) at the bottom of the Wikipedia Takes Coventry event page. Sponsors and partners – well, well.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by tarantino » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:30 am

HRIP7 wrote:Erik Möller has commented on the Wikimedia-l list:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 22066.html
- My understanding is that qrpedia.org is still under individual
control, rather than chapter control. Is that correct? If so this is a
bit problematic, and it would be good to secure control of it
Erik
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qrpedia.org, the registration of which is hidden behind WhoisGuard, seems to be under the control of Terence Eden. It resides on the same server as his website shkspr.mobi.
Introducing QRpedia

By Terence Eden On 03/04/2011 · 6 Comments · In qr, qrpedia

My new project – QRpedia – gets its first official outing at Derby Museum’s Backstage Pass this Saturday. Do come along if you’re in the area.
Before then, I thought I’d give you a sneak-peek at what’s happening.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by TungstenCarbide » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:40 am

Cla68 wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:Erik Möller has commented on the Wikimedia-l list:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 22066.html
If you look past the polite language and qualifications used to soften the wording, it's a fairly severe rebuke of WMUK's actions and behavior. He is publicly criticizing WMUK's behavior, asking the organization to explain itself, and issuing specific directions on actions the he wants them to take with regard to certain aspects of the situation.
Yes I agree.

One thing Eric avoided is the effect on the corporate entities, like municipalities who would like to participate in projects like these with Wikipedia. As of now, it might seem that they can't do so without kicking big bucks to Bamkin.
Gone hiking. also, beware of women with crazy head gear and a dagger.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by eppur si muove » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:43 am

EricBarbour wrote:I have to ask: is this typical of the kind of corruption one sees in other British charities?
Here's an article on one of my former employers http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... oyees.html The tentacles of the Wake organisation had not spread so far in my time. However there was a business in which new premises were taken over for senior mangement and also for a resource centre where my team worked with homeless drinkers and drug users. New toilets were expensively installed. However, within a few weeks senior management decided that they did not like havign to share their toilets with the clientele and a meeting room upstairs was turned into toilets whilst some of the still quite new toilets downstairs were turned into a meeting room. I only worked for the organisation for a year and we did not move into the rpemises for quite a while, so this was a remarkably quick decision to undo how public money had been spent to improve the cronies' toilet facilities.

Wake also suffered from "Founder's" syndrome. After I left, I used to bump into the head of the cleaning team for the main Arlington House hostel and she would be quite scathing of how he used "Founder" as his job title.

I ended up succesfully suing another former charity employer of mine. My next job was with local government and there were two other people who used to work with the same charity and also left on bad terms. The junior management were allowed to scapegoat individuals once or twice when things were going wrong before they in turn were sacked by the senior management.

When I first started out doing unpaid voluntary work, there was a charity run as a collective which was nominally really right on with the volunteers referred to as "unpaid workers" because they were workers just like the paid workers. I stopped volunteering after a situation arose where all five paid client-facing staff plus the placement student had a feud which resulted in each of them either resigning or threatening to resign. One also slashed his wrists and I think two others had stress-related sick leave.

Yet another charity I had contact with was one of those drug rehabs founded by a charismatic leader. As each member of staff approached the two year point which would give them legal protection, he would find a reason to sack them.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Cedric » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:05 am

EricBarbour wrote:Pointless, gentlemen.

This whole scandal will blow over, and Bamkin and Co. will go right back to snorkeling organizations for Wiki-edit payments.
Prove me wrong. Instead of fighting with Owen, go and open an RFC, then an arbitration.
Sadly, I fear Eric is right about this.

More importantly, where can I get my hands on some of this tyeack? I could use it with my scrap iron to make some Gibraltar Shields of my own. The seabounbres are particularly numerous and vicious in this part of Texas.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:27 am

Classic:
Hi folks. (Responding to this section, and the one above.) I don't have anything to say about this right now: I'm talking with Jon Davies by e-mail. If I have something to say after he and I have talked, I'll come back and say it here then. It looks like this could have been better handled from a perception standpoint via faster and more complete disclosure, but I have heard and seen nothing that makes me believe anything seriously untoward has happened here. Thanks Sue Gardner (talk) 07:16, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Nothing to see here. Maybe she'll comment later. It's all just a minor misunderstanding. All is well in wikiland.
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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Tippi Hadron » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:21 am

It's made El País, Spain's most popular daily paper. 95 comments and counting, some of them extremely passionate.
Gibraltar tiene enchufe en Wikipedia

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by thekohser » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:23 am

SB_Johnny wrote:Nothing to see here. Maybe she'll comment later. It's all just a minor misunderstanding. All is well in wikiland.
Did she add that "Jimmy has never done anything wrong"? (1:07)

Sue Gardner continues to disgust me.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:25 am

Tippi Hadron wrote:It's made El País, Spain's most popular daily paper. 95 comments and counting, some of them extremely passionate.
Gibraltar tiene enchufe en Wikipedia
Some of the comments posted on that article are charming:

Image

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:44 am

Just to add icing to the cake, "Gibraltar War Memorial" is one of the DYK articles today.
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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:53 am

SB_Johnny wrote:Just to add icing to the cake, "Gibraltar War Memorial" is one of the DYK articles today.
:facepalm:

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Anroth » Thu Sep 20, 2012 12:50 pm

Sadly I cant link to a picture of popcorn from my current location...

...but popcorn time it is! Why on earth didnt the guys at DYK remove all the Gib stuff as soon as it flared up?

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Moonage Daydream » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Anroth wrote:Sadly I cant link to a picture of popcorn from my current location...

...but popcorn time it is! Why on earth didnt the guys at DYK remove all the Gib stuff as soon as it flared up?
Because they wanted everyone to get a lesson in how terribly dysfunctional the community is?

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Cla68 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:21 pm

Didn't someone say that Pigsonthewing is involved in this WMUK/Gibraltar thing? Well, he is revert warring the problem tags from Gibraltarpedia and QRpedia.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by DanMurphy » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:39 pm

Cla68 wrote:Didn't someone say that Pigsonthewing is involved in this WMUK/Gibraltar thing? Well, he is revert warring the problem tags from Gibraltarpedia and QRpedia.
Andy "Pigs on the Wing" Mabbett is an active and enthusiastic member of Wikimedia UK and is deeply involved with many of Roger "Victualler" Bamkin's activities on Wikipedia. Mr. Bamkin praised Mr. Mabbett's work on his Monmouthpedia project, calling Mabbett a "legendary Wikipedian and web strategist."

Mabbett is also deeply involved with promoting Bamkin's paid editing project on Wikipedia, "Gibraltarpedia." He is also a major booster/associate of the "QRpedia" project, which is ostensibly not-for-profit but seems to be designed to generate consulting fees for Bamkin and a few others, leveraging their Wikipedia positions and reputations.

As far as I can tell it has not been established if Mabbett merely likes volunteering for Bamkin's projects, or if there is compensation.

It appears highly likely that Mr. Bamkin's and Mr. Mabbett's financial interests are entwined.
Roger is part of a successful Geovation bid with Andy Mabbett, Robin Owain and John Cummings. This means that he is likely to be talking to many councils in Wales.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Moonage Daydream » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:06 pm

DanMurphy wrote:
Cla68 wrote:Didn't someone say that Pigsonthewing is involved in this WMUK/Gibraltar thing? Well, he is revert warring the problem tags from Gibraltarpedia and QRpedia.
Andy "Pigs on the Wing" Mabbett is an active and enthusiastic member of Wikimedia UK and is deeply involved with many of Roger "Victualler" Bamkin's activities on Wikipedia. Mr. Bamkin praised Mr. Mabbett's work on his Monmouthpedia project, calling Mabbett a "legendary Wikipedian and web strategist."
Whatever else anyone might say about Andy Mabbett, you have to admit he has a way with the ladies. Chicks dig the beard:
Image

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by lilburne » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:14 pm

They have been inserting little memes in everybody's mind
So Google's shills can shriek there whenever they're inclined

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:22 pm

DanMurphy wrote:
Cla68 wrote:Didn't someone say that Pigsonthewing is involved in this WMUK/Gibraltar thing? Well, he is revert warring the problem tags from Gibraltarpedia and QRpedia.
Andy "Pigs on the Wing" Mabbett is an active and enthusiastic member of Wikimedia UK and is deeply involved with many of Roger "Victualler" Bamkin's activities on Wikipedia. Mr. Bamkin praised Mr. Mabbett's work on his Monmouthpedia project, calling Mabbett a "legendary Wikipedian and web strategist."

Mabbett is also deeply involved with promoting Bamkin's paid editing project on Wikipedia, "Gibraltarpedia." He is also a major booster/associate of the "QRpedia" project, which is ostensibly not-for-profit but seems to be designed to generate consulting fees for Bamkin and a few others, leveraging their Wikipedia positions and reputations.

As far as I can tell it has not been established if Mabbett merely likes volunteering for Bamkin's projects, or if there is compensation.

It appears highly likely that Mr. Bamkin's and Mr. Mabbett's financial interests are entwined.
Roger is part of a successful Geovation bid with Andy Mabbett, Robin Owain and John Cummings. This means that he is likely to be talking to many councils in Wales.
As was pointed out above, Andy Mabbett aka Pigsonthewing (T-C-L) is the main author of QRpedia (T-H-L).

Where is Orangemike when you need him ... (I have actually a new-found respect for Orangemike after his outspoken comments on Jimbo's talk page. He is at least consistent.)

The El País article on the saga (Google translation) is currently on the main page of elpais.com. As I mentioned on the Wikmediauk-l mailing list, one salient fact it points out is this:
En su perfil de usuario en Wikipedia, Bamkin no revela su relación profesional con el Gobierno de Gibraltar.
They're pointing out that there is no disclosure on his Wikipedia user page that he has a professional relationship with the government of Gibraltar.

The surprising thing is that so far there have not been any reports in the British media (apart from the article in The Register that has just appeared), while the affair has been reported in leading dailies in Spain, France, and Germany, as well as Fox News in the US.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Anroth » Thu Sep 20, 2012 2:26 pm

HRIP7 wrote: The surprising thing is that so far there have not been any reports in the British media (apart from the article in The Register that has just appeared), while the affair has been reported in leading dailies in Spain, France, and Germany, as well as Fox News in the US.
I suspect the delay is in lining up the ducks... Accusing a UK Charity of dodgy dealings is serious business for a newspaper. Get it wrong and its lawsuits and MASSIVE bad press with the public. (Evil Murdoch empire picks on charity etc etc)

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:17 pm

Mr Virgin is not pleased, and has some rather unflattering things to say about me and contributors to this site:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 09265.html
Andreas Kolbe



I think bullying you is very risky Kolbe as you have half a dozen equally warped friends who do little else but tear into Wikipedia and Wikipedians at every possible opportunity.
It continues in that vein for another 1,000 words.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Anroth » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:23 pm

-edited quite a bit as read further-

Well I hope you screenshotted that. I cant imagine it will stay up there long.
The Chapter actually owes me money.
Say what?
Your ridiculous fellow conspiracy theorists have said my PR links are some
kind of evil proof of me cashing in on my connections. Let’s kill that one
off now too. Jimmy Wales went to see a big PR agency last January after
outing them as doing paid for editing. In attendance were PRCA & CIPR people
who were very unhappy at the complete disconnect between the PR world and
ours and wanted to kick a dialogue off to see if there was any hope in hell
of sorting this out. I started that dialogue. I told them THEY had to show
good faith and start doing something for us before we’d even begin to
consider them as anything other than ‘dodgy and dubious.’ They agreed. The
two PR groups then asked some individual PR people to work Pro-Bono for us
on promoting Monmouthpedia. This is what happened. The CIPR also talked to
the younger social media PR crowd amongst its members and asked them to get
a working paper together for discussion – so that OUR community and their
community could begin to talking to try and bridge the unbridgeable divide
that may well divide us from the PR world. Note ‘talking’ – not taking cash,
not having freebies – nothing.
Interesting, I wonder if the general wikipedia population should be advised of this. You might want to put that paragraph on Jimbo's page since it seems to imply he was involved in it.
Last edited by Anroth on Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by DanMurphy » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:25 pm

HRIP7 wrote:Mr Virgin is not pleased, and has some rather unflattering things to say about me and contributors to this site:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 09265.html
Andreas Kolbe



I think bullying you is very risky Kolbe as you have half a dozen equally warped friends who do little else but tear into Wikipedia and Wikipedians at every possible opportunity.
It continues in that vein for another 1,000 words.
You and your crowd are a cancer undermining the Wiki Projects.
A charmer, this one (he's really in PR? That's funny.) I just scanned his rant, but I didn't notice him at any point actually addressing the apparent financial conflicts of interest a number of prominent Wikimedian UK folks appear to have. In this thread, we have video of Virgin and Bamkin pitching Bristol on a Wikipedia project as a purely promotional/search engine optimization winner. What is anyone to make of all this?

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by Sweet Revenge » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:32 pm

HRIP7 wrote:Mr Virgin is not pleased, and has some rather unflattering things to say about me and contributors to this site:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 09265.html
Andreas Kolbe



I think bullying you is very risky Kolbe as you have half a dozen equally warped friends who do little else but tear into Wikipedia and Wikipedians at every possible opportunity.
It continues in that vein for another 1,000 words.
Fascinating:
The perpetual
attacks on people devoting their time for free will ultimately result in no
one coming forward to stand for the Board as idiots from this site will be
looking at their Directorships, trolling their website looking for a word
here or there out of place or whipping up a incompetent journalist to write
utter nonsense about them and then holding it up as some kind of major
discovery of a plot to usurp donors money for personal gain.
If you replace "no one coming forward" with "no one but honest, competent people with nothing to hide coming forward" then WO will have done something valuable indeed. In the US every person in the public eye, even on quite obscure local levels, has journalists, bloggers, random citizens with web sites or a penchant for public comments at meetings, tearing into them for every perceived misstep, real or delusionally imagined. Somehow there's no shortage of people wanting to run charities or serve in public office. We like to think that constant critical scrutiny improves things immensely. There's no way it could be worse than a lack of scrutiny. What whiners people are.

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Re: Gibraltarpedia - rock solid

Unread post by DanMurphy » Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:30 pm

Mr. Bamkin writes:
The gibraltarpedia project is an almost perfect clone of the Monmouthpedia Project - which was the "coolest project"... The details of the contract are described by the Gibraltar Government in tomorrow's Gibraltar Chronicle (yes its on line).

I have been on DYK for so long that I remember when all the hooks one day came from a town in Oregon, and some people included a refeence to show off I have been involved in four projects that have run multiple DYKs - The British Museum, The Derby Museum, Monmouth and Gibraltar. The British Museum was our first Wikipedian in residence but the museum thrived on "A History of the World in 100 objects" where not only the British Museum but a radio series was included in front page DYKs. That was a cool project.

Then we had Derby Museum where we wrote 1200 articles as part of another competition. Derby Museum was judged best wiki-GLAM by WMUK members.

Monmouth - two paid organisers, an intern, volunteers, several PhD students, the whole staff in the town were trained, the town paid for advertising and the installation of free wifi. (Free wi-fi? who negotiated that?)

Then we get to Gibraltar where the same two editors are working with volunteers in Gibraltar, Morocco, Finland, Spain etc to create a wiki-city. This is a city that is practically a country and certainly has a government. It has one active wikipedian - well it did have.

I was there all last week, meeting people,
talking to professors of Anthropology about using Wikipedia in their courses,
I was talking to crafts people about making plaques,
I met the museum people,
and the botany people,
and the people who own the heritage of the Rock.
I went to church - good way to meet people
I met the canons of the cathedral,
I conducted two training sessions for locals,
I discussed the use of Hebrew on the signs with the Jewish Community,
I emailed the people who are spreading our project into Morocco
I went to Firework display and spoke about Wikipedia
I met the mens institute
I did some WMUK business
I met two local ministers
I arranged a meeting with Education minister to discuss wiki in 2ndary schools
I negotiated free wi fi
I took care of WMF branding issues
I arranged accomadation for visitors and John C
I met John C when he arrived from GLAMcamp and we discussed progress

And in the mean time people wrote cool articles about synagogues and war memorials who I now find are help in some kind of holding bay whilst a "which" test is devised. (ed's note: This gets to the crux of it. The main page is the inducement to edit -- not the sharing or "freeing" of knowledge. Why? Because it's all about promotion).

Oh and Someone wrote an article about a ship and an M.P. I think my contribution was loading up pictures to Wikimedia Commons of professors of anthropology and pictures of Ceuta Cathedral (which is in the Spanish part of Africa and its included in the contest). Oh yes I also got notice that our new logo was agreed with WMF licensing. I did tell you that the Government of Gibraltar has an agreement with the Wikimedia Foundation to install QRpedia codes. If you look at the Gibraltar Chronicle then you will see that I'm paid for the above. Liam delivered the British Museum for nothing. I did Derby Museum for nothing. I did get some expenses for Monmouth until I was employed. John Cummings did the project management for Monmouth for a modest wage. We are now creating another project. Now some people might claim that this was all done in secret and behind closed doors. It was announced at Wikimania! I walked out on video as did the Minister for Tourism and the leading wikipedian on the Rock (ed's note: remember that earlier up he said there was only one wikipedia editor in Gibraltar. Well, I guess that means he's "leading." I assume this is the guy)

One nice thing about being a consultant to a place that's 1600 miles away is that when there's a problem they show much more faith than a project where I have worked for 5 years. Although I would like to single out the many editors who have supported me indirectly and by a supportive comment. I do apologise to the regular admins on the DYK project. Can I also note that Gibraltar is going to have wait to get "... that the Flemish Synagogue, one of the Synagogues of Gibraltar, was built in response to the informality that had evolved at the Great Synagogue?" .... come one guys. Who is in charge are you going to let these contributors be bullied? If necessary you can put the whole lot of us in an RFC but do AGF and support the editors who support the DYK project Victuallers (talk) 16:15, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

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