I guess someone who discriminates against the ATHE?rnu wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:52 amI'd argue that even without taking into account the questionable (at best) source interpretation it is a badly written sentence. How about "Wigner was an atheist"? Regarding what else can one be an atheist?The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:22 amOne might ask “how is this a bad sentence? It’s grammatical, concise, and cited!”Regarding religion, Wigner was an [[atheist]]
Wikipedia's worst sentences
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Almost certainly OR. But also: why?Sometime after his wife's murder, Günter eventually took residence at Zelle Straße 8B, in Berlin-Friedrichshain, 1.5 Kilometers from Richard-Sorge-Straße 64. He was never in the pre-Wende East Berlin telephone books, but he first appeared in the 1994/95 Berliner Telefonbuch. With the 2002 publishing of the Telefonbuch, he was no longer listed. He was 72 years old.
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From Drift boat (T-H-L). Somebody should give them a stern warning.
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From Kutch Embroidery (T-H-L), a very poorly-written article, particularly shameful since it’s a beautiful craft.Kharek practiced by the Sodha, Rajput and Megwar people is usually in the shape of a set of bars created by adopting "black double running stitch and satin stitch".
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Wolff's father was diagnosed with brain cancer when he was eight years old. His parents separated following his father's diagnosis. His father died of the disease when Wolff was 15.
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Do It Yourself' is the topmost pillar of a crowd sourced work.
If User:Elinruby want more than "Nam Sago (1509-1571), styled Gyeogam was a scholar of the Joseon period of Korea. He was well versed in mechanics, feng shui, astronomy, fighting, and physiognomy. And he was already known for poems and prose with prophetic intents", then User:Elinruby is allowed to work harder on the topic. Moreover, this article WAS NOT written using the ko:wp article. so what ?
If User:John B123 has difficulties with MOSORDER, then User:John B123 can reorder the sections as he wants. Moreover, is suffices to read the sources given, to see that Jeong 2009 was also a reference for the next two sentences. So what ?
Home work (about Kim Hawon): 김하원, 『조작된 위대한 가짜 예언서 격암유록』 (서울: 도서출판 만다라, 1995). 2004년. 에 『격암유록은 가짜 정감록은 엉터리 송하비결은?』이라는 제목의 개정 증보판이 나왔 다. 이 책이 나오기 전가지 출판된 주요 저서는 다음과 같다. 김은태 편, 『正道令 : 韓國
Pldx1 (talk) 10:03, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
The initial language of this article was {{{language}}}. Bebel2024 (talk) 16:38, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
From the “Your other left” school of captioning.Whitney (left) with Maria Mitchell at the Vassar College Observatory, around 1877
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“Italianate”, as used here is an architectural style of the Victorian period. (And this is a “Good “ article…)Although the restaurant building's exterior was designed in an Italianate style, the interior retains its original Victorian design, with a main dining room, a waiting room, and a second-floor cocktail lounge.
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
.... and 232 references for some restaurant in NYC.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:59 pmGage and Tollner (T-H-L)
“Italianate”, as used here is an architectural style of the Victorian period. (And this is a “Good “ article…)Although the restaurant building's exterior was designed in an Italianate style, the interior retains its original Victorian design, with a main dining room, a waiting room, and a second-floor cocktail lounge.
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Ah, but that’s for the “Crap Articles” thread…Ming wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:54 pm.... and 232 references for some restaurant in NYC.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:59 pmGage and Tollner (T-H-L)
“Italianate”, as used here is an architectural style of the Victorian period. (And this is a “Good “ article…)Although the restaurant building's exterior was designed in an Italianate style, the interior retains its original Victorian design, with a main dining room, a waiting room, and a second-floor cocktail lounge.
…and the Clusterfuque du Jour thread…
…and, by the look of it, the UPE thread…
…and…
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
There needs to be a "it's all shit" thread.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:57 pmAh, but that’s for the “Crap Articles” thread…Ming wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:54 pm.... and 232 references for some restaurant in NYC.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:59 pmGage and Tollner (T-H-L)
“Italianate”, as used here is an architectural style of the Victorian period. (And this is a “Good “ article…)Although the restaurant building's exterior was designed in an Italianate style, the interior retains its original Victorian design, with a main dining room, a waiting room, and a second-floor cocktail lounge.
…and the Clusterfuque du Jour thread…
…and, by the look of it, the UPE thread…
…and…
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
I think as a corollary to WP:THREE (T-H-L), an article with more than three distinct reasons to call it "shit" deserves its own thread.el84 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 4:21 pmThere needs to be a "it's all shit" thread.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:57 pmAh, but that’s for the “Crap Articles” thread…Ming wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 3:54 pm.... and 232 references for some restaurant in NYC.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Mon Sep 11, 2023 2:59 pmGage and Tollner (T-H-L)
“Italianate”, as used here is an architectural style of the Victorian period. (And this is a “Good “ article…)Although the restaurant building's exterior was designed in an Italianate style, the interior retains its original Victorian design, with a main dining room, a waiting room, and a second-floor cocktail lounge.
…and the Clusterfuque du Jour thread…
…and, by the look of it, the UPE thread…
…and…
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Medicine wheel (symbol) (T-H-L)The modern Medicine Wheel symbol was invented as a teaching tool in about 1972 by Charles Storm, aka Arthur C. Storm, writing under the name Hyemeyohsts Storm
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Finding a metal pipe nearby, he entered the now-closed store through the back door and hit the first saleswoman on the head, and the second one in the sales area.
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Well, we don't know what these ladies were selling....The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:54 amFinding a metal pipe nearby, he entered the now-closed store through the back door and hit the first saleswoman on the head, and the second one in the sales area.
Ivan Kulesh (T-H-L).
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
It does kind of feel like a weird euphemism. That sentence is a work of art. (At least he entered the store through the back door.)bagofworms wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:23 amWell, we don't know what these ladies were selling....The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:54 amFinding a metal pipe nearby, he entered the now-closed store through the back door and hit the first saleswoman on the head, and the second one in the sales area.
Ivan Kulesh (T-H-L).
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It's sort of a failed zeugma.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:54 amFinding a metal pipe nearby, he entered the now-closed store through the back door and hit the first saleswoman on the head, and the second one in the sales area.
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ITYM “Zeugma manque.”eppur si muove wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 10:18 pmIt's sort of a failed zeugma.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:54 amFinding a metal pipe nearby, he entered the now-closed store through the back door and hit the first saleswoman on the head, and the second one in the sales area.
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Oh! I learned a new word! Thanks!The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 10:42 pmITYM “Zeugma manque.”eppur si muove wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 10:18 pmIt's sort of a failed zeugma.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:54 amFinding a metal pipe nearby, he entered the now-closed store through the back door and hit the first saleswoman on the head, and the second one in the sales area.
zeug·ma
/ˈzo͞oɡmə/
noun
a figure of speech in which a word applies to two others in different senses (e.g., John and his license expired last week ) or to two others of which it semantically suits only one (e.g., with weeping eyes and hearts ).
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
It’s also cognate to “jug,” a classics high school term for detention.Zoloft wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:05 amOh! I learned a new word! Thanks!The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 10:42 pmITYM “Zeugma manque.”eppur si muove wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 10:18 pmIt's sort of a failed zeugma.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 12:54 amFinding a metal pipe nearby, he entered the now-closed store through the back door and hit the first saleswoman on the head, and the second one in the sales area.
zeug·ma
/ˈzo͞oɡmə/
noun
a figure of speech in which a word applies to two others in different senses (e.g., John and his license expired last week ) or to two others of which it semantically suits only one (e.g., with weeping eyes and hearts ).
(You can yoke all these things together.)
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
It's often used for comic effect which. This is the case for most of the literary examples in the WIkipedia article including Dickens' "Miss Bolo [...] went straight home, in a flood of tears and a sedan-chair." and Pope's "Dost sometimes Counsel take – and sometimes Tea." I'm pretty sure that those were the two examples one of my Latin teachers used when explaining the concept nearly 50 years ago.Zoloft wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:05 amOh! I learned a new word! Thanks!zeug·ma
/ˈzo͞oɡmə/
noun
a figure of speech in which a word applies to two others in different senses (e.g., John and his license expired last week ) or to two others of which it semantically suits only one (e.g., with weeping eyes and hearts ).
Because zeugma is generally comic it would be highly inappropriate to use it in describing a double murder which is presumably why Newt saw this near zeugma as a particular egregious example. It doesn't take much effort to come up with this zeugma modelled on the sentence: "The bully punched his first victim in the face and his second in the library." I half expected that the original language text for the Wiki article had this sort of formation, but it does not.
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Film festival (T-H-L)In the U.S., Telluride Film Festival,[13] Sundance Film Festival,[14][15] Austin Film Festival,[16] Austin's South by Southwest, New York City's Tribeca Film Festival, London's London Eco-Film Festival, and Slamdance Film Festival are all considered significant festivals for independent film.[17]
The particular feature that caught my eye has been there for nearly 4 1/2 years
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Is it the weird redirect?eppur si muove wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 11:42 amFilm festival (T-H-L)In the U.S., Telluride Film Festival,[13] Sundance Film Festival,[14][15] Austin Film Festival,[16] Austin's South by Southwest, New York City's Tribeca Film Festival, London's London Eco-Film Festival, and Slamdance Film Festival are all considered significant festivals for independent film.[17]
The particular feature that caught my eye has been there for nearly 4 1/2 years
"Grand Jury Prize" redirects here.
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
No, "in the US.... London...."Zoloft wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 12:05 pmIs it the weird redirect?eppur si muove wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 11:42 amFilm festival (T-H-L)In the U.S., Telluride Film Festival,[13] Sundance Film Festival,[14][15] Austin Film Festival,[16] Austin's South by Southwest, New York City's Tribeca Film Festival, London's London Eco-Film Festival, and Slamdance Film Festival are all considered significant festivals for independent film.[17]
The particular feature that caught my eye has been there for nearly 4 1/2 years"Grand Jury Prize" redirects here.
Reason: fixed quotes
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
George Starbuck (T-H-L).George Edwin Starbuck (June 15, 1931 in Columbus, Ohio – August 15, 1996 in Tuscaloosa, Alabama) was an American poet of the neo-formalist school.
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:24 pmGeorge Starbuck (T-H-L).George Edwin Starbuck (June 15, 1931 in Columbus, Ohio – August 15, 1996 in Tuscaloosa, Alabama) was an American poet of the neo-formalist school.
Starbuck's best-known poems include....
"Sonnet With a Different Letter At the End of Every Line."
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Oh?Elinruby wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:50 pmThe Blue Newt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:24 pmGeorge Starbuck (T-H-L).George Edwin Starbuck (June 15, 1931 in Columbus, Ohio – August 15, 1996 in Tuscaloosa, Alabama) was an American poet of the neo-formalist school.Starbuck's best-known poems include....
"Sonnet With a Different Letter At the End of Every Line."
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:53 pmOh?Elinruby wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:50 pmThe Blue Newt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:24 pmGeorge Starbuck (T-H-L).George Edwin Starbuck (June 15, 1931 in Columbus, Ohio – August 15, 1996 in Tuscaloosa, Alabama) was an American poet of the neo-formalist school.Starbuck's best-known poems include....
"Sonnet With a Different Letter At the End of Every Line."
So says the article. See the usual caveats about wikipedia not beinga reliable source. But my reaction was more like -- is this what I missed when I refused to sit through English 101?
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Nah, that was a joke. Starbuck lined up every possible variant spelling of the “long O” sound at the end of his lines.Elinruby wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:46 pmThe Blue Newt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:53 pmOh?Elinruby wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:50 pmThe Blue Newt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 3:24 pmGeorge Starbuck (T-H-L).George Edwin Starbuck (June 15, 1931 in Columbus, Ohio – August 15, 1996 in Tuscaloosa, Alabama) was an American poet of the neo-formalist school.Starbuck's best-known poems include....
"Sonnet With a Different Letter At the End of Every Line."
So says the article. See the usual caveats about wikipedia not beinga reliable source. But my reaction was more like -- is this what I missed when I refused to sit through English 101?
O for a muse of fire, a sack of dough,
Or both! O promissory notes of woe!
One time in Santa Fe N.M.
Ol’ Winfield Townley Scott and I ... But whoa.
One can exert oneself, ff,
Or architect a heaven like Rimbaud,
Or if that seems, how shall I say, de trop,
One can at least write sonnets, a propos
Of nothing save the do-re-mi-fa-sol
Of poetry itself. Is not the row
Of perfect rhymes, the terminal bon mot,
Obeisance enough to the Great O?
“Observe,” said Chairman Mao to Premier Chou,
“On voyage à Parnasse pour prendre les eaux.
On voyage comme poisson, incog.”
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
I still think I was right to spend my time on the concordances of the Song of Roland.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:56 pmNah, that was a joke. Starbuck lined up every possible variant spelling of the “long O” sound at the end of his lines.
O for a muse of fire, a sack of dough,
Or both! O promissory notes of woe!
One time in Santa Fe N.M.
Ol’ Winfield Townley Scott and I ... But whoa.
One can exert oneself, ff,
Or architect a heaven like Rimbaud,
Or if that seems, how shall I say, de trop,
One can at least write sonnets, a propos
Of nothing save the do-re-mi-fa-sol
Of poetry itself. Is not the row
Of perfect rhymes, the terminal bon mot,
Obeisance enough to the Great O?
“Observe,” said Chairman Mao to Premier Chou,
“On voyage à Parnasse pour prendre les eaux.
On voyage comme poisson, incog.”
I do understand the joke now though, so thank you for explaining that. I am a bit literal at times and I had never heard of the man. What's a neo-formalist school when it's at home though? If you know? The antonym of Ezra Pound?
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Heathen(ess?). No reason not to like both. Starbuck is apparently more accessible, but there’s always something you catch after the fact, he’s practically an avatar of l’esprit de l’escalier (T-H-L). Notice how the end of each line has no rhyme scheme, being pronounced pretty much the same in most dialects and sociolects of English, but the initial syllables do?Elinruby wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:31 pmI still think I was right to spend my time on the concordances of the Song of Roland.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:56 pmNah, that was a joke. Starbuck lined up every possible variant spelling of the “long O” sound at the end of his lines.
O for a muse of fire, a sack of dough,
Or both! O promissory notes of woe!
One time in Santa Fe N.M.
Ol’ Winfield Townley Scott and I ... But whoa.
One can exert oneself, ff,
Or architect a heaven like Rimbaud,
Or if that seems, how shall I say, de trop,
One can at least write sonnets, a propos
Of nothing save the do-re-mi-fa-sol
Of poetry itself. Is not the row
Of perfect rhymes, the terminal bon mot,
Obeisance enough to the Great O?
“Observe,” said Chairman Mao to Premier Chou,
“On voyage à Parnasse pour prendre les eaux.
On voyage comme poisson, incog.”
I do understand the joke now though, so thank you for explaining that. I am a bit literal at times and I had never heard of the man. What's a neo-formalist school when it's at home though? If you know? The antonym of Ezra Pound?
Neo-formalism? It’s a bit like postmodernism in architecture, a return to traditional structure that many had abandoned. Starbuck himself never had, though. The usage in this sentence is a bit like calling Stanford White (T-H-L) a postmodernist.
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
It is always good to start checking wikipedia articles from the bottom, because if they are really bad the copyeditors run screaming from the page before they get to this stuffTurkey has been another significant destination, registering more than 58,000 Ukrainian refugees as of 22 March, and more than 58,000 as of 25 April.[549][550]
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Huh, I say, huh. I always say that Wikipedia is great for cultivating a sense of humility. I had no idea about any of that.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:02 pmHeathen(ess?). No reason not to like both. Starbuck is apparently more accessible, but there’s always something you catch after the fact, he’s practically an avatar of l’esprit de l’escalier (T-H-L). Notice how the end of each line has no rhyme scheme, being pronounced pretty much the same in most dialects and sociolects of English, but the initial syllables do?Elinruby wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 7:31 pmI still think I was right to spend my time on the concordances of the Song of Roland.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2023 6:56 pmNah, that was a joke. Starbuck lined up every possible variant spelling of the “long O” sound at the end of his lines.
O for a muse of fire, a sack of dough,
Or both! O promissory notes of woe!
One time in Santa Fe N.M.
Ol’ Winfield Townley Scott and I ... But whoa.
One can exert oneself, ff,
Or architect a heaven like Rimbaud,
Or if that seems, how shall I say, de trop,
One can at least write sonnets, a propos
Of nothing save the do-re-mi-fa-sol
Of poetry itself. Is not the row
Of perfect rhymes, the terminal bon mot,
Obeisance enough to the Great O?
“Observe,” said Chairman Mao to Premier Chou,
“On voyage à Parnasse pour prendre les eaux.
On voyage comme poisson, incog.”
I do understand the joke now though, so thank you for explaining that. I am a bit literal at times and I had never heard of the man. What's a neo-formalist school when it's at home though? If you know? The antonym of Ezra Pound?
Neo-formalism? It’s a bit like postmodernism in architecture, a return to traditional structure that many had abandoned. Starbuck himself never had, though. The usage in this sentence is a bit like calling Stanford White (T-H-L) a postmodernist.
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
From 1913 to 1949, the chronology appears to be based on material that can be confirmed by primary documents, independent witnesses, cross-references and reasonable inference.
Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
There was a fascinating discussion on the talk page of the article recently about the ethnicity/nationality of Gurdjeff's mother. I say fascinating because Londonlinks (T-C-L) keeps insisting that Wikipedia has to be based on reliable sources while dismissing all (newer) sources and engaging in OR and wild speculations instead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Geor ... _Gurdjieff
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Tallulah Bankhead (T-H-L).Eugenia was more of an old romantic as she got married at 16 and ended up marrying seven times to six different men during her life, while Tallulah was a stronger and even more rebellious personality, who sought a career in acting, was into lust in her relationships even more than love, and showed no particular interest in marrying, although she did marry actor John Emery in 1937, a marriage which ended in divorce in 1941.
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences, “Pick One” subset, nautical subcategory
What is the issue with that?The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:24 pmCumberland and Oxford Canal (T-H-L)Canal boats using the lakes had a hinged centerboard keel…
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences, “Pick One” subset, nautical subcategory
A “hinged centerboard keel” can refer to a centerboard mounted quite low in a foreshortened full keel or box keel or such. Others might call it a swing keel. The structure is almost completely isolated from the interior of the hull, and almost completely below it. It also might refer to a pivoting board or plate in an open-topped box, which can also be simply described as a hinged/swing centerboard, or just a centerboard if context makes it clear it is not a daggerboard.AndyTheGrump wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:42 pmWhat is the issue with that?The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:24 pmCumberland and Oxford Canal (T-H-L)Canal boats using the lakes had a hinged centerboard keel…
“Hinged centerboard” is less ambiguous here. What it calls to mind first is probably what was being described.
“Keel” is a vexed word, since it can refer both to a structural backbone, and to a fin sometimes developed from it, or attached to it, but sometimes not. Look at “bilge keels”.
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences, “Pick One” subset, nautical subcategory
It isn't entirely clear what was being described. Probably not this:The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 9:35 pmA “hinged centerboard keel” can refer to a centerboard mounted quite low in a foreshortened full keel or box keel or such. Others might call it a swing keel. The structure is almost completely isolated from the interior of the hull, and almost completely below it. It also might refer to a pivoting board or plate in an open-topped box, which can also be simply described as a hinged/swing centerboard, or just a centerboard if context makes it clear it is not a daggerboard.AndyTheGrump wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:42 pmWhat is the issue with that?The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:24 pmCumberland and Oxford Canal (T-H-L)Canal boats using the lakes had a hinged centerboard keel…
“Hinged centerboard” is less ambiguous here. What it calls to mind first is probably what was being described.
“Keel” is a vexed word, since it can refer both to a structural backbone, and to a fin sometimes developed from it, or attached to it, but sometimes not. Look at “bilge keels”.
Given the vagaries of sailing vessel terminology, it's hard to argue that “hinged centerboard keel” is actually wrong, without a source. Can we really know what they called the whatever-it-was on boats built for a long-defunct canal?
Photo of said vessel here. Doesn't really help much. link
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences, “Pick One” subset, nautical subcategory
It isn't entirely clear what was being described. Probably not this:
Given the vagaries of sailing vessel terminology, it's hard to argue that “hinged centerboard keel” is actually wrong, without a source. Can we really know what they called the whatever-it-was on boats built for a long-defunct canal?
Photo of said vessel here. Doesn't really help much. link
[/quote]
They were written up someplace in “the American Neptune.” Saw it once, and I’m closing in on it. They were close relatives of the Champlain boats, and lasted, as steamers, well into the 20th century as lake boats on Lake Sebago.
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
linkSome design features of the Champlain boats likely had European origins. Sailing barges had operated on rivers and canals there for centuries. The English sailing barge on the Thames River, with a flat bottom on its barge-shaped hull
and equipment that enabled the masts to be lowered onto the hatch covers to accommodate numerous river bridges, may have been the immediate ancestor of the Champlain sailing canal boats. The lake vessel, while not an exact copy of the Thames barge, shared a number of design similarities. The sailing canal boat P. E. Havens was the same class as the General Butler, and also built at Essex, New York. Courtesy of Arthur Cohn. Each possessed a barge-like hull with a flat bottom, for maximum cargo carrying capacity, and both vessels could drop their masts when the need arose. Since the Champlain boat dropped and raised its mast only at the ends of the canal, builders of this craft employed a much simplified mechanism for this function. Additionally, because their maximum beam was determined by the narrow locks of the new canal, the Champlain boats adopted a centerboard design, while Thames barges traditionally used leeboards for lateral stability. 10 The centerboard design was probably well-known in the Champlain Valley. Its inventor, John Schank, had been the British naval officer who supervised the shipyard at St. John, Quebec, where the British forces had constructed a fleet in anticipation of the British invasion of the Champlain valley in 1776. 11
Being familiar with Thames barges, and their Dutch cousins (still seen on the Thames, though rarely under sail), and also familiar with operating smaller boats in restrictive locks, I'd more or less figured out for myself why the US canal boats had gone for a centerboard design, rather than simpler and less obstructive leeboards. Nice to see it confirmed though.
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
That's the same article I quoted above.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:38 amApparently some of the Champlain boats were built to Annesley’s design, cross-laminated planking with minimal timbers built over reusable molds. Nice write-up by the Vomit Hysterical Society link
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
FoolsGreat Minds Think Alike.AndyTheGrump wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:53 amThat's the same article I quoted above.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:38 amApparently some of the Champlain boats were built to Annesley’s design, cross-laminated planking with minimal timbers built over reusable molds. Nice write-up by the Vomit Hysterical Society link
PS: this might also belong in the missing article thread. Is the a wiki piece on Annesley?
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
Wikipedia doesn't seem to include the naval architect, though it has four William Annesley (T-H-L) biographies. Might be difficult finding secondary sources?The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:55 amFoolsGreat Minds Think Alike.AndyTheGrump wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:53 amThat's the same article I quoted above.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:38 amApparently some of the Champlain boats were built to Annesley’s design, cross-laminated planking with minimal timbers built over reusable molds. Nice write-up by the Vomit Hysterical Society link
PS: this might also belong in the missing article thread. Is the a wiki piece on Annesley?
Annesley's A New System of Naval Architecture is available online. It starts with a testimonial from Thomas Jefferson, in response to a letter sent by Annesley. link link
The section on canal boats (p.47) is brief, and doesn't tell us much.
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Re: Wikipedia's worst sentences
This link is kinda interesting, the building technique varies based, it would appear, on ease of construction. Strip planked, roughly speaking, on the slab sides, but conventional plank on frame on the curves of the bow. Lot of other good wrecks linked there, too.AndyTheGrump wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 5:22 amWikipedia doesn't seem to include the naval architect, though it has four William Annesley (T-H-L) biographies. Might be difficult finding secondary sources?The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:55 amFoolsGreat Minds Think Alike.AndyTheGrump wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:53 amThat's the same article I quoted above.The Blue Newt wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:38 amApparently some of the Champlain boats were built to Annesley’s design, cross-laminated planking with minimal timbers built over reusable molds. Nice write-up by the Vomit Hysterical Society link
PS: this might also belong in the missing article thread. Is the a wiki piece on Annesley?
Annesley's A New System of Naval Architecture is available online. It starts with a testimonial from Thomas Jefferson, in response to a letter sent by Annesley. link link
The section on canal boats (p.47) is brief, and doesn't tell us much.