Wikimedia Foundation Staff Turnover

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:03 pm

We might want a thread re-titling and/or merging.

It's apparent that the WMF is going to continue to hemorrhage employees for a while here.

Keeping track of the bleeding should be fairly hilarious.

Hex · Unread post by **Hex** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:29 pm

Something that appears to have gone unmentioned is the departure of Frances Hocutt from the WMF's Community Tech team. She was hired as a contractor in late 2014 before being taken on as an employee last May. In February she decided to take medical leave until March 9, "due in part to stress caused by the recent uncertainty and organizational departures". Her involvement with that can be seen on Molly's timeline. On March 16 her staff status was removed.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:07 pm

Hex wrote:Something that appears to have gone unmentioned is the departure of Frances Hocutt from the WMF's Community Tech team. She was hired as a contractor in late 2014 before being taken on as an employee last May. In February she decided to take medical leave until March 9, "due in part to stress caused by the recent uncertainty and organizational departures". Her involvement with that can be seen on Molly's timeline. On March 16 her staff status was removed.

Not trying to make light of any medical conditions but is it really that stressful? Generally people come and go in organizations and I have worked for some very high stress supervisors, but I just can't imagine that the WMF is that stressful just because a couple people leave.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:27 pm

Kumioko wrote:I just can't imagine that the WMF is that stressful just because a couple people leave.

There are many things happening in WMF beyond a few people leaving. Why do you think they're leaving?

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:35 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Kumioko wrote:I just can't imagine that the WMF is that stressful just because a couple people leave.
There are many things happening in WMF beyond a few people leaving. Why do you think they're leaving?

That's certainly true but even still. It's not like they are kicking down doors in Baghdad or busting drug dealers in Chicago.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:36 am

Vigilant wrote:We might want a thread retitling and/or merging.

It's apparent that the WMF is going to continue to hemorrhage employees for a while here.

Keeping track of the bleeding should be fairly hilarious.

The foundation's legal director, Yana Welinder, has quietly departed.

Demonology · Unread post by **Demonology** » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:13 am

tarantino wrote:
Vigilant wrote:We might want a thread retitling and/or merging.

It's apparent that the WMF is going to continue to hemorrhage employees for a while here.

Keeping track of the bleeding should be fairly hilarious.
The foundation's legal director, Yana Welinder, has quietly departed.

Have any insiders been recently discussing what the environment is like at the WMF? I remember some did a few months back.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:47 am

I don't think we've seen the bottom of this particular well yet.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:56 am

Vigilant wrote:I don't think we've seen the bottom of this particular well yet.

I don't like the legal people going away. In protracted conversation with one of them over a potential legal matter on Wiki I found the person to be competent and professional.

RfB

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:57 am

Randy from Boise wrote:
Vigilant wrote:I don't think we've seen the bottom of this particular well yet.
I don't like the legal people going away. In protracted conversation with one of them over a potential legal matter on Wiki I found the person to be competent and professional.

RfB

Are you sure you didn't misdial?

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:04 am

Vigilant wrote: Are you sure you didn't misdial?

Difficult to believe, but they seemed on point and caring about what was going on.

RfB

Cedric · Unread post by **Cedric** » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:39 am

Randy from Boise wrote:
Vigilant wrote:I don't think we've seen the bottom of this particular well yet.
I don't like the legal people going away. In protracted conversation with one of them over a potential legal matter on Wiki I found the person to be competent and professional.

When an attorney "fires the client" after a short period (here apparently six months), it is nearly always because the client is seen to be making unreasonable demands, often of a kind that could have a negative impact on the attorney's professional image or reputation if they submit to them. Given that we know the WMF to be a toxic sump, this is in no way surprising. Many more shall come and go before The End Times arrive.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:39 pm

They still have good old Geoff Brigham, who's been there five years, eight counsel who are I assume all legally qualified, and six legal fellows. And if the worst comes to the worst, they can always consult Fred Bauder.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:35 am

Poetlister wrote:They still have good old Geoff Brigham, who's been there five years, eight counsel who are I assume all legally qualified, and six legal fellows. And if the worst comes to the worst, they can always consult Fred Bauder.

Just don't get drunk and let him shag you on the veranda.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:57 am

Poetlister wrote:They still have good old Geoff Brigham, who's been there five years, eight counsel who are I assume all legally qualified, and six legal fellows. And if the worst comes to the worst, they can always consult Fred Bauder.

They could hire NewYorkBrad!

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:23 pm

Kumioko wrote:
Poetlister wrote:They still have good old Geoff Brigham, who's been there five years, eight counsel who are I assume all legally qualified, and six legal fellows. And if the worst comes to the worst, they can always consult Fred Bauder.
They could hire NewYorkBrad!

Surely they don't have that much money. He's absolutely top of the range.

lilburne · Unread post by **lilburne** » Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:56 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Kumioko wrote:
Poetlister wrote:They still have good old Geoff Brigham, who's been there five years, eight counsel who are I assume all legally qualified, and six legal fellows. And if the worst comes to the worst, they can always consult Fred Bauder.
They could hire NewYorkBrad!
Surely they don't have that much money. He's absolutely top of de range.

FTFY

DHeyward · Unread post by **DHeyward** » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:43 pm

lilburne wrote:
Poetlister wrote:
Kumioko wrote:
Poetlister wrote:They still have good old Geoff Brigham, who's been there five years, eight counsel who are I assume all legally qualified, and six legal fellows. And if the worst comes to the worst, they can always consult Fred Bauder.
They could hire NewYorkBrad!
Surely they don't have that much money. He's absolutely top of de range.
FTFY

Money probably isn't an issue. He's probably not interested in doing IP law. Jimbo's probably not interested unless they close his gender gap. If your ten-times the man you think you are, think of the hiring that needs to be done to compensate.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:59 pm

DHeyward wrote:
lilburne wrote:
Poetlister wrote:
Kumioko wrote:
Poetlister wrote:They still have good old Geoff Brigham, who's been there five years, eight counsel who are I assume all legally qualified, and six legal fellows. And if the worst comes to the worst, they can always consult Fred Bauder.
They could hire NewYorkBrad!
Surely they don't have that much money. He's absolutely top of de range.
FTFY
Money probably isn't an issue. He's probably not interested in doing IP law. Jimbo's probably not interested unless they close his gender gap. If your ten-times the man you think you are, think of the hiring that needs to be done to compensate.

Or in Jimbo's case if you think you're ten times the man you actually are...

Hex · Unread post by **Hex** » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:57 pm

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in another thread because the board won't let you search for 3-letter words (can we change that?), but they're looking for a new CTO, as well as a "Product Manager".

Unread post by **tarantino** » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:50 pm

Hex wrote:I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in another thread because the board won't let you search for 3-letter words (can we change that?), but they're looking for a new CTO, as well as a "Product Manager".

They've been looking for a CTO since April 2015.

They relaunched their search in February this year.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:16 am

tarantino wrote:
Hex wrote:I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in another thread because the board won't let you search for 3-letter words (can we change that?), but they're looking for a new CTO, as well as a "Product Manager".
They've been looking for a CTO since April 2015.

They relaunched their search in February this year.

It's laughably sad.
In the San Francisco bay area, engineering unemployment is under 2%.
That's taking a week off when you found a new, better job.

The WMF trying to recruit a CTO into a broken organization with substandard pay, no idea who the CEO is going to be, an entrenched group of incompetent engineers, and an executive turnover rate like Stalin's Russia means that they have no viable, competent candidates. The demographics for that combination of skills, desire, competence and self sacrifice is very, very thin.

Good luck, WMF.
I'll do it for a $1M signing bonus and complete hire and fire control over engineering.

Hex · Unread post by **Hex** » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:54 am

tarantino wrote:They've been looking for a CTO since April 2015.

They relaunched their search in February this year.

Danke.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Fri May 13, 2016 1:17 am

Rosemary Rein is no longer director of program capacity & learning.

There's no indication if she jumped or was pushed.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Fri May 13, 2016 2:19 am

tarantino wrote:Rosemary Rein is no longer director of program capacity & learning.

There's no indication if she jumped or was pushed.

Maybe we'll be able to tell with the replacement. Depending on who it is might indicate if its a hookup for some good ole boy or if maybe they just got a better job.

I don't know this employee and never heard of her in fact but I have to ask the question, why does the WMF even need a capacity & learning program let alone a director of it?

thekohser · Unread post by **thekohser** » Fri May 13, 2016 2:38 pm

Kumioko wrote:
tarantino wrote:Rosemary Rein is no longer director of program capacity & learning.

There's no indication if she jumped or was pushed.
Maybe we'll be able to tell with the replacement. Depending on who it is might indicate if its a hookup for some good ole boy or if maybe they just got a better job.

I don't know this employee and never heard of her in fact but I have to ask the question, why does the WMF even need a capacity & learning program let alone a director of it?

She only lasted one year. Wow. It's like a hot frying pan, there at Jimbo's foundation.

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Fri May 13, 2016 2:44 pm

thekohser wrote:
Kumioko wrote:
tarantino wrote:Rosemary Rein is no longer director of program capacity & learning.

There's no indication if she jumped or was pushed.
Maybe we'll be able to tell with the replacement. Depending on who it is might indicate if its a hookup for some good ole boy or if maybe they just got a better job.

I don't know this employee and never heard of her in fact but I have to ask the question, why does the WMF even need a capacity & learning program let alone a director of it?
She only lasted one year. Wow. It's like a hot frying pan, there at Jimbo's foundation.

Look at her resume.
I'm surprised any place would hire her.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Sat May 14, 2016 7:16 pm

Director of community liasons Rachel diCerbo, along with manager of special projects Kevin Leduc, left the foundation yesterday.

This apparently came as a surprise to Rachel, who was tweeting about wikipedia mere hours before. Her last tweet, shortly after her removal:

Unread post by **Zoloft** » Sun May 15, 2016 12:00 am

Split from here: link viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7377[/link]

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sun May 15, 2016 12:16 am

Zoloft wrote:I'm going to split the more recent staff turnover into its own topic.

An article with a timeline of hires and fires would be sweet.

thekohser · Unread post by **thekohser** » Sun May 15, 2016 2:05 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Zoloft wrote:I'm going to split the more recent staff turnover into its own topic.
An article with a timeline of hires and fires would be sweet.

While I want to agree, Wikipediots would defend the revolving door as "normal for high-tech organizations in the San Francisco market", wouldn't they?

Vigilant · Unread post by **Vigilant** » Sun May 15, 2016 2:38 pm

thekohser wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Zoloft wrote:I'm going to split the more recent staff turnover into its own topic.
An article with a timeline of hires and fires would be sweet.
While I want to agree, Wikipediots would defend the revolving door as "normal for high-tech organizations in the San Francisco market", wouldn't they?

They can handwave all they want. For a charitable organization, their churn is inexcusable.

The Garbage Scow · Unread post by **The Garbage Scow** » Sun May 15, 2016 3:59 pm

It's a smallish, cliquey organization dominated by the personality cult of Jimbo Wales and his entrenched political toadies (Jdforrester, etc.)

Having once worked for a smallish professional organization that took itself WAY too seriously (to the point of megalomania) and had a horribly toxic work environment full of fear, political backstabbing, personal vendettas and baldfaced lying, I can understand why the employee overturn at WMF is so bad.

Earthy Astringent · Unread post by **Earthy Astringent** » Sun May 15, 2016 5:01 pm

Outsource the lot to India or the Philippines. S.F. tech is so overrated.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Sun May 15, 2016 6:49 pm

There are a couple of things that makes the WMF a non viable entity for employment.

The first is that it employs mostly young, recently graduated college students with zero real world work experience. It's fine to have some of that and certainly you want new blood in the organization, but with the vast majority of employees falling into this category, they have too many unskilled workers. These new hires are always admins and functionaries and shows that the WMF does not have respect for editors unless they are admins.

The second and arguably most important problem has multiple factors and it is that the WMF employs a lot of Wikipedia editors. On one hand this seems like a smart thing to do; hire people who are already familiar with the workings of the sites. There are several significant downsides to this practice however:
1) The editing environment on the site is toxic and abusive and the editors bring that abusive and toxic attitude and environment to the WMF.
2) The majority of editors started editing the site because they lack the social skills to make friends in real life. They are mostly young, nerdy looking men who edit because they can't get a date so they have free time to burn. Certainly this isn't universally true, but having met a huge number of editors in my wiki career I can tell you that this is a large majority. Therefore, when the WMF hires these individuals, they bring that same social ineptitude to the WMF.
3) A third problem is the growing rift between the community and the WMF. Employing the admins as a hook up for service is not a way to build the trust of the community. It's a way to increase the divide and foster the us and them mentality between admins and editors.

Unread post by **HRIP7** » Mon May 16, 2016 6:24 am

Vigilant wrote:
Zoloft wrote:I'm going to split the more recent staff turnover into its own topic.
An article with a timeline of hires and fires would be sweet.

As far as I can seen, the last 50 edits to the staff and contractors template removed 21 people, but added only 4.

This is reflected in overall staff numbers now being 274, compared to over 290 a couple of months ago.

MysteriousStranger · Unread post by **MysteriousStranger** » Mon May 16, 2016 11:36 am

HRIP7 wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Zoloft wrote:I'm going to split the more recent staff turnover into its own topic.
An article with a timeline of hires and fires would be sweet.
As far as I can seen, the last 50 edits to the staff and contractors template removed 21 people, but added only 4.

This is reflected in overall staff numbers now being 274, compared to over 290 a couple of months ago.

Shouldn't it be 273 then?

Hex · Unread post by **Hex** » Mon May 16, 2016 2:44 pm

May be of interest: Web Archive captures of Template:STAFF-COUNT.

thekohser · Unread post by **thekohser** » Mon May 16, 2016 5:42 pm

MysteriousStranger wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Zoloft wrote:I'm going to split the more recent staff turnover into its own topic.
An article with a timeline of hires and fires would be sweet.
As far as I can seen, the last 50 edits to the staff and contractors template removed 21 people, but added only 4.

This is reflected in overall staff numbers now being 274, compared to over 290 a couple of months ago.
Shouldn't it be 273 then?

Check your math. "Over 290" could mean 291, right? 291 minus 21 is 270. Plus 4 is 274.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:25 am

Tomasz Finc (Tfinc (T-C-L)) has left the foundation after almost eight years. His Linkedin profile lists his former job titles.

Head of Discovery
Director of Mobile & Features Engineering
Director of Mobile Engineering
Director of Mobile and Special Projects
Engineering Program Manager
System / Software Engineer

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:42 am

tarantino wrote:Tomasz Finc (Tfinc (T-C-L)) has left the foundation after almost eight years. His Linkedin profile lists his former job titles.

Head of Discovery
Director of Mobile & Features Engineering
Director of Mobile Engineering
Director of Mobile and Special Projects
Engineering Program Manager
System / Software Engineer

I'm not familiar with this individual but that is a lot of association with failed products or the sections that work with them. Mobile has been Garbage since day one.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:08 am

Leon Ziemba, AKA administrator MusikAnimal (T-C-L) just got himself a job as software engineer at the foundation.

MusikAnimal_(WMF) (T-C-L)

thekohser · Unread post by **thekohser** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:16 am

tarantino wrote:Leon Ziemba, AKA administrator MusikAnimal (T-C-L) just got himself a job as software engineer at the foundation.

MusikAnimal_(WMF) (T-C-L)

His official staff page says:

My concious is a jukebox

About me

I began working for the Wikimedia Foundation on May 2016. I am also a volunteer contributor on various WMF projects, with my home wiki being the English Wikipedia. My activity there stems back to 2003 where I made occasional edits anonymously, eventually becoming in admin in 2014.

Another top-notch, quality hire.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:44 pm

Given that they have already been working on a better watchlist capability, my guess is they were hired in part at least, to help develop the global watchlist. Now that the accounts are global and the global notifications have been turned on (or will be soon), the next logical step would be to create a global watchlist.

Kingsindian · Unread post by **Kingsindian** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:50 am

Geoff Brigham, head of WMF's legal department, leaves WMF to join YouTube's Trust and Safety team.

thekohser · Unread post by **thekohser** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:32 am

Kingsindian wrote:Geoff Brigham, head of WMF's legal department, leaves WMF to join YouTube's Trust and Safety team.

That's pretty big news!

lilburne · Unread post by **lilburne** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:34 am

thekohser wrote:
Kingsindian wrote:Geoff Brigham, head of WMF's legal department, leaves WMF to join YouTube's Trust and Safety team.
That's pretty big news!

So he's left one bunch of content thieves to join a bigger bunch.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:38 pm

lilburne wrote:
thekohser wrote:
Kingsindian wrote:Geoff Brigham, head of WMF's legal department, leaves WMF to join YouTube's Trust and Safety team.
That's pretty big news!
So he's left one bunch of content thieves to join a bigger bunch.

I realize you're making a funny, but those two entities are about as comparable as perps of jaywalking and mass vehicular manslaughter caused by driving a jeep at 50 mph down a Las Vegas sidewalk...

RfB

SB_Johnny · Unread post by **SB_Johnny** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:12 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
lilburne wrote:
thekohser wrote:
Kingsindian wrote:Geoff Brigham, head of WMF's legal department, leaves WMF to join YouTube's Trust and Safety team.
That's pretty big news!
So he's left one bunch of content thieves to join a bigger bunch.
I realize you're making a funny, but those two entities are about as comparable as perps of jaywalking and mass vehicular manslaughter caused by driving a jeep at 50 mph down a Las Vegas sidewalk...

RfB

Which is the jaywalker and which is the jeep driver, in this analogy?

thekohser · Unread post by **thekohser** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:12 pm

A couple of things I'll note about Geoff Brigham.

The Wikimedia-l mailing list is tripping over themselves to shower departing Geoff with songs of praise and homage.

"You’ve built a tremendous team"

"You’ve expertly navigated our challenges"

"you've empowered the Foundation"

"your impeccable service"

"You have been a huge asset to the movement"

"your amazing service to the movement"

That being said, over the past 5 years, I reached out by e-mail to Geoff Brigham on about eight separate occasions to notify him of what looked to me to be legal troubles that the WMF should look into. Not once did he ever personally respond to me or thank me for the tip. Indeed, the only time I've ever received e-mail from his address were the couple of times I got automated "out of office" messages.

Of course, when the Wikimedia Foundation was being sued by a private party, and I had information that could assist the WMF in defending itself, that is when Geoff encouraged his hired counsel at Cooley LLP to reach out to me directly (by phone) to inquire about how willing I would be to help the Wikimedia Foundation in their time of need. Even then, Geoff didn't bother to pick up the phone or to e-mail me himself.

So, while the many praises he's received from co-workers are (I'm certain) well-deserved, for the "outsider" who tried to communicate with the man, I'd say his performance was lackluster.