Wikipedians and passive-aggressiveness

[Michaeldsuarez]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Mathsci_is_abusing_the_thanking_feature_to_spam_my_notifications (permalink)

I've never thought that I would have to create a thread on Mathsci, but here he is, using passive-aggressive retaliation against me. I say "passive-aggressive retaliation" since he isn't being openly hostile, but anyone who digs deep enough to learn what's going on would know that this is Mathsci being hostile.

Does anyone else here have stories of Wikipedians retaliating passive-aggressively?

[The Garbage Scow]

What's his beef with you? Need some history on this one.

[GlwnDwr]

Isn't being a passive aggressive, manipulative sociopath the whole point of making an account?

[Michaeldsuarez]

What's his beef with you? Need some history on this one.

I told Advocate about what Mathsci was saying about him behind his back.

[MysteriousStranger]

Wiki-drama!

Seriously, though, only non-admins are passive-aggressive. Admins are aggressive-aggressive.

[Kumioko]

What's his beef with you? Need some history on this one.

I told Advocate about what Mathsci was saying about him behind his back.

I like to call it harassment and bullying through policy. As long as the person is an admin or has a high standing with the admins they can twist policy to do pretty much anything they want, to anyone that want, with impunity.

[Jim]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Mathsci_is_abusing_the_thanking_feature_to_spam_my_notifications (permalink)

I've never thought that I would have to create a thread on Mathsci, but here he is, using passive-aggressive retaliation against me. I say "passive-aggressive retaliation" since he isn't being openly hostile, but anyone who digs deep enough to learn what's going on would know that this is Mathsci being hostile.

Does anyone else here have stories of Wikipedians retaliating passive-aggressively?

Not specifically, but there was, I recall, minor mirth at a previous 'incident' of 'thanks terrorism', starting from this post: viewtopic.php?p=81847#p81847
I remember it because of the marvellous term "Wikipediavellian", which I haven't used anywhere near enough since...
Well, that and it was funny...

[Kingsindian]

I have a rather strange story. There is an editor who seems to only edit Korean topics, which I have no interest in. By chance I edited an article about Park Yeon-mi (T-H-L), a North Korean defector, some of whose stories have been questioned. I opened an RfC there which resulted in a decision against their version (they wanted to remove or minimize all mentions of the questions raised about her story).

Next thing I know they are popping up on random Israel-Palestine articles which they never edited before, which I also happened to edit. They did not revert my edits, but only others on "my side", so to speak. Or they will show up to cast a vote opposing me at AfD. They never addressed me directly in these interactions. I asked them about it, but they never replied.

I would guess that this sort of behaviour is not uncommon among others, given Wikipedia's Panopticon-like structure. This is just a weird case. It just felt creepy, though I wasn't too bothered about it.

By the way I have been told in real life that I'm passive-aggressive myself. So it's possible that I have done this kind of stuff myself. I hope not, but it's hard to judge oneself.

[Randy from Boise]

I have a rather strange story. There is an editor who seems to only edit Korean topics, which I have no interest in. By chance I edited an article about Park Yeon-mi (T-H-L), a North Korean defector, some of whose stories have been questioned. I opened an RfC there which resulted in a decision against their version (they wanted to remove or minimize all mentions of the questions raised about her story).

Next thing I know they are popping up on random Israel-Palestine articles which they never edited before, which I also happened to edit. They did not revert my edits, but only others on "my side", so to speak. Or they will show up to cast a vote opposing me at AfD. They never addressed me directly in these interactions. I asked them about it, but they never replied.

I would guess that this sort of behaviour is not uncommon among others, given Wikipedia's Panopticon-like structure. This is just a weird case. It just felt creepy, though I wasn't too bothered about it.

By the way I have been told in real life that I'm passive-aggressive myself. So it's possible that I have done this kind of stuff myself. I hope not, but it's hard to judge oneself.

Point us to a couple tainted AfDs...

RfB

[Kingsindian]

Here is a list of articles and AfD's where they popped up.

[Kumioko]

The Wikipedia culture really embraces passive-aggressiveness. It's literally built into policy including:
*Wikipedia:Revert, block, ignore (T-H-L)
*Wikipedia:Nobody cares (T-H-L)
*Wikipedia:Deny recognition (T-H-L)

And plenty of others.

[MysteriousStranger]

The Wikipedia culture really embraces passive-aggressiveness. It's literally built into policy including:
*Wikipedia:Revert, block, ignore (T-H-L)
*Wikipedia:Nobody cares (T-H-L)
*Wikipedia:Deny recognition (T-H-L)

And plenty of others.

WP:DENY and WP:RBI are decent strategies for a banned troll who's just trying to get people mad, but when someone is legitimately trying to say something it kind of flies in the face of the whole "Don't be a dick" policy. There was a time when I was trying to tell admins that two accounts CU'd as mine were actually innocent, unrelated users caught in the crossfire, and my explanations got rollbacked every time. Of course, I was committing a double no-no: I was not only editing in violation of a block, but also questioning the conventional wisdom that the CheckUser tool and those entrusted with it are both infallible and false positives don't happen.

[Kumioko]

Yeah I won't deny there is a time and place to use Deny and RBI but these are 2 of the most abused essay policies out there.

[LynnWysong]

Yeah I won't deny there is a time and place to use Deny and RBI but these are 2 of the most abused essay policies out there.

The other one of the top three being "Bold, Revert, Discuss" (and by the "essay policy" probably isn't the right term. More like: essay-we-treat-as-policy-when-it-works-for-us-but-say-"it's-just-an-essay"-when-it-doesn't).

[Tokenevil]

Passive agressiveness is what you get when you force civility without actually improving the environemment.

I suppose it is even ampliflied in wiki because nerds have no muscle and don't punch things. Try MMA or something. Or Tai Chi if you're that old.

[Lightbreather]

Passive agressiveness is what you get when you force civility without actually improving the environemment.

I suppose it is even ampliflied in wiki because nerds have no muscle and don't punch things. Try MMA or something. Or Tai Chi if you're that old.

This is one of the stupidest comments I've ever read.

[Textnyymi]

Lightbreather types: I am a nerd who has no muscle and doesn't punch things

[Kumioko]

Passive agressiveness is what you get when you force civility without actually improving the environemment.

I suppose it is even ampliflied in wiki because nerds have no muscle and don't punch things. Try MMA or something. Or Tai Chi if you're that old.

This is one of the stupidest comments I've ever read.

If this is one of the stupidest comments you have read you must not have spent much time on Wiki. Because there is some dumb stuff going on there.

[Starke Hathaway]

This is one of the stupidest comments I've ever read.

When you consider that Lightbreather probably reads her own comments, that is a pretty sick burn.

[Michaeldsuarez]

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Mathsci_is_abusing_the_thanking_feature_to_spam_my_notifications (permalink)

I've never thought that I would have to create a thread on Mathsci, but here he is, using passive-aggressive retaliation against me. I say "passive-aggressive retaliation" since he isn't being openly hostile, but anyone who digs deep enough to learn what's going on would know that this is Mathsci being hostile.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Requests_for_help_from_a_sysop_or_bureaucrat#Mathsci_is_abusing_the_thanking_feature_to_spam_my_notifications (permalink)

Mathsci claims that it was a misunderstanding. He claims that he was using the "thank" feature to "acknowledge" my comments. Nevertheless, I should note that Mathsci hardly ever uses the "thank" feature at enwiki, despite being more active at enwiki than at Meta.

[Vigilant]

For the record, Antony, you're an asshole and I look forward to seeing you banned again.

[Kumioko]

For the record, Antony, you're an asshole and I look forward to seeing you banned again.

There was never, at any point, any doubt that they would be rebanned again. That's exactly what the Arbcom is counting on. By unabanning people that they know will get rebanned again, they can say that they are doing their job and giving people a second chance while also showing that they are needed. They know these people are going to get rebanned at which time they can keep the cycle of usefullness going.

[Randy from Boise]

Yeah I won't deny there is a time and place to use Deny and RBI but these are 2 of the most abused essay policies out there.

There is no such fucking thing as an "essay policy."

Essays are opinion pieces that have no force of institutional law. They may be the idiosyncratic viewpoint of a single individual.

Policies are the highest level of site law, approved by the community at large as behaviors to be generally followed in all but exceptional cases.

RfB

[Randy from Boise]

This is one of the stupidest comments I've ever read.

When you consider that Lightbreather probably reads her own comments, that is a pretty sick burn.

It was a pretty fucking dumb comment.

RfB

[Kingsindian]

This is one of the stupidest comments I've ever read.

When you consider that Lightbreather probably reads her own comments, that is a pretty sick burn.

It was a pretty fucking dumb comment.

RfB

I found the comment rather logical myself. If you can't show aggression openly, you are driven towards covert or passive-aggressive ways. Irreconcilable disagreements or grudges don't disappear magically if a civility policy is enforced.