Crap articles

[Poetlister]

We could perhaps speak with the Montreal Museum of Fine Arts and the Art Gallery of Ontario about Shainblum.

Is there any point? The article isn't a hoax and it's not our job to add references. It was flagged as unsourced in December 2009 but evidently nobody cares.

Actually, it's unlikely that a hoax would be unreferenced. It would have some fake references, or genuine ones that don't say what is claimed.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

It seems likely that the article is not a hoax, simply a tribute by a family member to someone whom I'm sure was a nice person but for whom there is not nearly enough material to write an encyclopaedia article. As an article, then, it's crap.

[Zoloft]

It seems likely that the article is not a hoax, simply a tribute by a family member to someone whom I'm sure was a nice person but for whom there is not nearly enough material to write an encyclopaedia article. As an article, then, it's crap.

It's the circle of crap!

[Rogol Domedonfors]

There's probably scope for an entire thread on family memoirs by prominent Wikipedians. I seem to remember that Elonka (T-C-L), who is herself Elonka Dunin (T-H-L), wrote an article about her father Stanley Dunin (T-H-L), deleted at the third attempt.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

The Big Bend (T-H-L) is an advertisement for a proposed building in New York that has yet to gain financial support. Yet this was a Did You Know mention on the front page yesterday. I wonder how much that cost?

[Rogol Domedonfors]

A fruitful source of crap articles is the front page of Wikipedia, where the craptitude quotient of the articles is entertainingly enhanced by the fact that Wikipedians think so highly of them.

Today's offering is Coffee vending machine (T-H-L), where the opneing sentence "The coffee vending machine is a vending machine that dispenses hot coffee and other coffee beverages" qualifies it for at least one other thread. Quite a lot of the article is devoted to a "concept machine", that is, an imaginary vending machine invented by the Douwe Egbert company as a PR gimmick. In other words, it's a dictionary definition expanded to a puff piece for a coffee company.

[thekohser]

In other words, it's a dictionary definition expanded to a puff piece for a coffee company.

You should tell Jimbo -- he hates puff pieces. Also, since the coffee vending machine was apparently invented in Philadelphia, that's another reason Jimbo should look into it. He hates stuff associated with Philadelphia.

[Poetlister]

The first word is wrong. It should start "A coffee vending machine", not "The coffee vending machine". It's not as if there's only one such machine, or even only one type.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

I rather suspect that the alleged inventors, Lloyd Rudd and Cyrus Melikian, are in fact inventors of the form of the machine that delivered the product in a paper cup.

Cyrus Melikian (T-H-L) is also rather a crap article.

Mr. Melikian's entrepreneurial spirit and passion lives on through his grandchildren Pearce Fielding Lockwood, Alexander Melikian, Anayis Melikian, Armen Melikian, Hunter Harrison, and Casey Harrison. All of whom had the rare privilege of learning from Mr. Melikian himself.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Did you know that Pizza in China (T-H-L) is a front-page advertisement for a company called Pizza Hut? The article explains how much better they were than rivals Domino's at scoping out the China market for pizza. Oh, some other companies are mentioned in a list, and apparently Chinese people aren't used to eating cheese. That's it: nothing about social or cultural or business context, such as the complexities for Western companies of navigating state-controlled capitalist markets. I hope Pizza Hut are duly grateful for this puff.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Oh, and the "hook" for Pizza in China is the increased prominence of pizza in China had the secondary effect of introducing Chinese consumers to cheese as a culinary ingredient which is indeed stated in the article in question. Unfortunately it is not supported by the sources cited, and even more unfortunately it is contradicted by Rushan cheese (T-H-L), another inadequately sourced article (but supported by the BBC) which describes a traditional Chinese cheese. Indeed, there's a whole Category:Chinese cheeses (T-H-L) available to contradict the notion that cheese was introduced to China by the Pizza Hut company.

How is it that these front page articles, which are supposed to have been checked by the magic of crowd-sourcing and double-checked by specially dedicated "editors", get presented to the world as the finest Wikipedia has to offer, when anyone with an internet connection and a few minutes to spare can easily see that they are rubbish, and PR rubbish at that?

[Johnny Au]

Cheese existed in China before any of the founders of the constituent restaurants that make up YUM Brands were born.

Nguri (T-H-L) is the only traditional cheese invented by the Han Chinese as well.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Ah yes, Nguri, an article sourced only to Baidu, the Chinese analogue of Wikipedia. It's amazing what you find when you once start to turn over these stones.

[thekohser]

I hope Pizza Hut are duly grateful for this puff.

The creator of the article does over 5,000 edits per month. You're not suggesting he's a paid editor, are you? (It would be really delicious -- pardon the pun -- if he were.)

[Rogol Domedonfors]

I neither know nor care whether the author was paid to produce this. I merely observe that as a contribution to the sum of human knowledge, it's crap. As an advertisement for a particular food company, it's not bad.

Let's look at some of this author's most recent articles.

Pork chops and applesauce (T-H-L). Three paragraphs: one definition, one original research ("consumed in the United States since at least the 1890 [sic]" because there's a reference to it in a book dated 1890) and one the Wikipedian favourite "In popular culture" (it was mentioned on television! a lot!!).

Cheese and crackers (T-H-L), with a history section sourced entirely to a newspaper article.

Rat-on-a-stick (T-H-L), sourced largely to a newspaper article in, shock horror, the Daily Mail.

This is some kind of elaborate joke, isn't it?

[Poetlister]

Tzadikim Nistarim (T-H-L): this is a very scrappy article. For a start, the title should be Lamedvavniks,which is the term used by most people who have heard of the idea. About half the article is the "In popular culture" section. The references are a joke; the main one is a random sermon by a rabbi and they don't mention the classic article by Gershom Scholem (T-H-L). The External link seems to have no connection with the article other than that both involve the number 36.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Although the article namechecks Jorge Luis Borges (T-H-L), it fails to mention his Book of Imaginary Beings (T-H-L). Or the spelling Lamed Wufniks.

[Poetlister]

Or the spelling Lamed Wufniks.

That is rightly omitted. It's how it's spelt in Spanish, not English.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Lamed Wufniks is the spelling in the English translation Book of Imaginary Beings, referred to in a previous post, which describes itself as "Revised,enlarged and translated by Norman Thomas di Giovanni in collaboration with the author". It is thus the preferred English spelling of not only the translator but the author, himself a Professor of English and American Literature. It is perverse to omit this spelling.

[Poetlister]

Lamed Wufniks is the spelling in the English translation Book of Imaginary Beings, referred to in a previous post, which describes itself as "Revised,enlarged and translated by Norman Thomas di Giovanni in collaboration with the author". It is thus the preferred English spelling of not only the translator but the author, himself a Professor of English and American Literature. It is perverse to omit this spelling.

No, it is undue weight to give a spelling that nobody else uses and that suggests a ridiculous mispronunciation.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Let me see. Jorge Luis Borges (T-H-L), an originator of the genre of magical realism, one of the more important authors of the last century, winner of the first Formentor prize (joint with Samuel Beckett), French Legion of Honour, Italian Commendatore, Balzan Prize, Jerusalem Prize, Prix mondial Cino Del Duca, Cervantes Prize, Konex Award. But you don't think that the way he chose to spell this phrase in English, a subject he was a professor of, is worthy of even being mentioned in this article? Of course not -- why would you?

[Poetlister]

Let me see. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow is generally regarded as one of America's greatest poets. He spelt Hindustan (T-H-L)as Hindostan. This spelling is not mentioned in the Wikipedia article. Does it make sense to record every instance of an author, however distinguished, who has an idiosyncratic spelling? At least Longfellow wrote in English, so he wasn't just copying a spelling that is only appropriate in a different language.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Let me see. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow is generally regarded as one of America's greatest poets. He spelt Hindustan (T-H-L)as Hindostan. This spelling is not mentioned in the Wikipedia article. Does it make sense to record every instance of an author, however distinguished, who has an idiosyncratic spelling? At least Longfellow wrote in English, so he wasn't just copying a spelling that is only appropriate in a different language.

No, and that is not what I suggested I said that this example of this use of this spelling in this case was so far above the bar for inclusion in something that claims to be an encyclopaedia, that in this instance it was clearly worth mentioning in the article on the concept in question, especially since it had been deliberately used in a book cotranslated by the original author who was himself a professor of English literature.

If someone were to write a scholarly article about the concept of India in 19th century poetry, then, yes, it would be appropriate in that article to discuss the variant spellings and explain, what, if anything, was meant by the variations. (In Longfellow's case, he probably learned the spelling from his aunt.) Such an article would require actual scholarship and expertise, something none of us would expect to find at Wikipedia.

[Poetlister]

Let me see. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow is generally regarded as one of America's greatest poets. He spelt Hindustan (T-H-L)as Hindostan. This spelling is not mentioned in the Wikipedia article. Does it make sense to record every instance of an author, however distinguished, who has an idiosyncratic spelling? At least Longfellow wrote in English, so he wasn't just copying a spelling that is only appropriate in a different language.

No, and that is not what I suggested I said that this example of this use of this spelling in this case was so far above the bar for inclusion in something that claims to be an encyclopaedia, that in this instance it was clearly worth mentioning in the article on the concept in question, especially since it had been deliberately used in a book cotranslated by the original author who was himself a professor of English literature.

If someone were to write a scholarly article about the concept of India in 19th century poetry, then, yes, it would be appropriate in that article to discuss the variant spellings and explain, what, if anything, was meant by the variations. (In Longfellow's case, he probably learned the spelling from his aunt.) Such an article would require actual scholarship and expertise, something none of us would expect to find at Wikipedia.

Why is Borges above the bar and Longfellow below it?

[Rogol Domedonfors]

As far as their relative position in the canons of 19th and 20th century writers respectively go, I would say that they are roughly comparable and wouldn't care to argue one way or the other. However, India is a rather well-known topic in world culture generally and English literature in particular. The Lamed Wufniks, on the other hand, are very much less well-known: they are probably known to many if not most readers of English through the book of Borges and in the very spelling he chose and which you affect to despise.

[Poetlister]

As far as their relative position in the canons of 19th and 20th century writers respectively go, I would say that they are roughly comparable and wouldn't care to argue one way or the other. However, India is a rather well-known topic in world culture generally and English literature in particular. The Lamed Wufniks, on the other hand, are very much less well-known: they are probably known to many if not most readers of English through the book of Borges and in the very spelling he chose and which you affect to despise.

I don't despise it. I merely point out that it is a spelling that Borges chose for his own language, that makes no sense in English. To quote it would give English-speaking readers a very misleading idea of how it should be pronounced. Tchaikovsky spelt his name, when using the Latin alphabet, as Tschaikowsky. That would suggest the correct pronunciation in some languages, but not to English speakers.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

You don't despise it, then, you merely criticise it -- but criticising the choice of spelling is hardly to the point. Borges chose it, for a significant publication, in English, and so like it or not that is the spelling that anything claiming to be an English-language encyclopaedia needs to consider. Perhaps both Borges and Tchaikovsky, and even Longfellow, would have reconsidered their spellings had they had the benefit of your opinion on the subject, perhaps not, but sadly they didn't, so here we are, with the word and the world as it stands, not as we would like it to be.

Your argument suggests another besetting sin of Wikipedians -- to use Wikipedia to write about the world as they wish it.

[Poetlister]

OK, we disagree. My belief is that Wikipedia and indeed anything claiming to be a serious reference work should give helpful facts, not misleading information. No doubt your belief is superior.

[tarantino]

Rogol and Poetlister, I and I suspect many others are annoyed with your sniping at each other. Why don't you two take it elsewhere?

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Oh, I think we're simply in violent agreement.

[Poetlister]

I am enjoying these threads where Rogol and Poetlister discuss things.

Rogol and Poetlister, I and I suspect many others are annoyed with your sniping at each other. Why don't you two take it elsewhere?

It's so awkward when people disagree on this forum, isn't it.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Marco Follini (T-H-L), BLP of an Italian politician. Quite a detailed article, with one reference. Must be a pretty comprehensive one then? Not exactly: it supports precisely one assertion, namely that "On 22 May 2007 he was appointed a member of the organizing committee of the Democratic Party".

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Canon SX280 HS (T-H-L) is a camera. The article tells us "the camera does have a very impressive spec sheet, it has a very good zoom at 20X". So this paragon of cameras must be really notable to deserve an article all to itself -- what do the references say? Er, nothing, because there aren't any.

It seems the article was created by Jonsreviews (T-C-L) to complain about its battery life. The criticism was then removed by later-disgraced Biscuittin (T-C-L), leaving this useless sentence. Still, I suppose Canon are happy.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Universal Corporation (T-H-L), one of the word's largest tobacco merchants, incorporated in 1918 from a number of other companies. There must be a lot to describe in the 100-year history of this company, then. No, it seems that only one interesting thing has ever happened -- in 2010 it was accused of breaching the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. There's one reference, and that's the one thing it describes. I suppose that a tobacco company can expect only negative coverage on Wikipedia.

[AndyTheGrump]

Canon SX280 HS (T-H-L) is a camera. The article tells us "the camera does have a very impressive spec sheet, it has a very good zoom at 20X". So this paragon of cameras must be really notable to deserve an article all to itself -- what do the references say? Er, nothing, because there aren't any.

It seems the article was created by Jonsreviews (T-C-L) to complain about its battery life. The criticism was then removed by later-disgraced Biscuittin (T-C-L), leaving this useless sentence. Still, I suppose Canon are happy.

The sentence is not so much useless as confusing:

While the camera does have a very impressive spec sheet, it has a very good zoom at 20X, and it also has GPS and it records in a crisp clear full HD video.

Generally, a sentence starting with 'while' would be expected to note some sort of contrast, I'd have thought: e.g. "While the camera has a very good lens, it tends to burst into flames spontaneously" or something of the sort. As it stands, the poor reader is left there wondering which of the attributes described is supposed to be a negative. Or more likely wondering why this garbled mess is on Wikipedia in the first place. As for Canon, I'm not sure they'd see much benefit in the article: it certainly wouldn't make me rush out and buy one.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Slough Jets ENL 2011–12 (T-H-L) is a franchise of, well, you tell me. It's some kind of team, but the sport is not mentioned in the article. It's clearly taken from the team's own publicity, since it's written in the breathless present, characteristic of PR. Unfortunately the one reference, a bare URL has gone dead.

[AndyTheGrump]

Slough Jets ENL 2011–12 (T-H-L) is a franchise of, well, you tell me. It's some kind of team, but the sport is not mentioned in the article. It's clearly taken from the team's own publicity, since it's written in the breathless present, characteristic of PR. Unfortunately the one reference, a bare URL has gone dead.

See also 2011–12 Slough Jets season (T-H-L), though to be fair that does actually mention ice hockey eventually. Quite why we need two articles, I'm not sure. Then again, I'm not sure we need one, since the List of Slough Jets seasons (T-H-L) fails to link either of them.

[tarantino]

It's so awkward when people disagree on this forum, isn't it.

Not as awkward as having you on this forum, Wendy.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Le Mont High School, Lavasa (T-H-L) is or was an international school in Lavasa, India. A few weeks ago, the article was more-or-less nuked to say "This school has shut down operations after one year of opening due to insufficient number of students." There's no reference for that assertion, or indeed anything in the article as it now stands. Perhaps user Lmhlavasa (T-C-L), who wrote the early versions, can help. Looking at the Lavasa (T-H-L) article there's a lot going on below the surface here -- this article seems to be just one place in which an Indian political battle is being fought out. There's no way a decent article can emerge from this sort of imbroglio.

[Poetlister]

Canon SX280 HS (T-H-L) is a camera. The article tells us "the camera does have a very impressive spec sheet, it has a very good zoom at 20X". So this paragon of cameras must be really notable to deserve an article all to itself -- what do the references say? Er, nothing, because there aren't any.

It seems the article was created by Jonsreviews (T-C-L) to complain about its battery life. The criticism was then removed by later-disgraced Biscuittin (T-C-L), leaving this useless sentence. Still, I suppose Canon are happy.

This article does have the {{Multiple issues}} template. Probably a substantial proportion of the articles with this template could go on this thread. Apparently, there are over 140,000 such articles, so this thread could get very long.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Indeed. One reason for selecting this little group was to experiment with how easy it was to find crap articles, and to get a view about the various reasons for craptitude. A common thread is that there are simply insufficient volunteers to fix everything -- a crap article which is tagged may stay in a tagged-crap state for years. Most of the crap articles were intended to promote some point of view or other. The crowd-sourcing theory is that they will gradually be polished into a neutral state -- that just isn't happening. Wikipedia finds it hard to cope with trivial motivations let alone organised politically or commercially motivated and well-resourced actors. I know we knew all that, but it was interesting to verify it by direct experiment.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

List of anthrax outbreaks (T-H-L): "This page lists notable outbreaks of anthrax". There have been four of them, it seems, all since 2000. Not notable in the Wikipedia sense, presumably, because only one has its own article. The main article on Anthrax (T-H-L) actually lists more than this article.

This illustrates what is wrong with so many "List of ..." articles. There is no statement as to whether or not the list is claimed to be complete (in this case it clearly isn't) or whether the instances are significant in some way, or typical, or atypical. There is no source for the list as a list (which would certainly be required if it were allegedly complete or typical, etc.). It's just a random collection of some instances that some contributors happened to be able to find references for. Of course they're all in recent years, because those are the instances likely to have a source capable of being found by an online search.

[Poetlister]

It would be worth having a thread on articles that are lists. Some make sense because they can easily be shown to be complete, like say presidents of the USA. That could be useful if you want to know who was president in the year you were born or something like that. Obviously, there is a whole spectrum between lists like that and lists of anthrax outbreaks.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Lavié-Agoviépé (T-H-L) "is an area located in Togo. It is notable as it is the home of the Kotoko F.C. (T-H-L)". This is the entire article. It is not notable enough for any sort of reference, or even for a description of what sort of area it is. Kotoko FC (T-H-L) on the other hand, "is a Togolese football club based in Lavié". Again there are no sources to attest to its existence. The only players with articles are Félicien Singbo (T-H-L), who is from Benin, and whose article does not mention any time at this club, and Edmé Codjo (T-H-L), also from Benin, and a manager. There is a link to the Kotoko FC article from Patricia Appiagyei (T-H-L), a Ghanaian politician whose husband was formerly the chairman of the similarly named Asante Kotoko S.C. (T-H-L) in Ghana.

The dubious list of players was added by Saanigood (T-C-L), their only surviving edit. I think it clear that this list is completely bogus.

Google maps shows no sign of "Lavié-Agoviépé" or "Lavié" at the indicated coordinates, or anywhere else. This does not appear to be the official name of any region in Togo.


Does this club exist? Does this area exist? What a mess.

[hættulegt]

It would be worth having a thread on articles that are lists. Some make sense because they can easily be shown to be complete, like say presidents of the USA. That could be useful if you want to know who was president in the year you were born or something like that. Obviously, there is a whole spectrum between lists like that and lists of anthrax outbreaks.

See viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2056 . You posted to that thread yourself.

[Poetlister]

It would be worth having a thread on articles that are lists. Some make sense because they can easily be shown to be complete, like say presidents of the USA. That could be useful if you want to know who was president in the year you were born or something like that. Obviously, there is a whole spectrum between lists like that and lists of anthrax outbreaks.

See viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2056 . You posted to that thread yourself.

Mea maxima culpa.

[Poetlister]

Following the sad death of Glen Campbell (T-H-L), I read this interview with him where he says "Oh, Jimmy Webb! ‘Wichita Lineman’ was the most played song in the millennium. ... In the history of the world, this is the most played song, period." That struck me as unlikely, but I found similar statements elsewhere, e.g. here. So I checked Wichita Lineman (T-H-L). It says nothing of the kind, but surely it should report that this was said, even if only to rebut it. Normally, that's the sort of thing that Wikipedia is good at.

[thekohser]

Following the sad death of Glen Campbell (T-H-L), I read this interview with him where he says "Oh, Jimmy Webb! ‘Wichita Lineman’ was the most played song in the millennium. ... In the history of the world, this is the most played song, period." That struck me as unlikely, but I found similar statements elsewhere, e.g. here. So I checked Wichita Lineman (T-H-L). It says nothing of the kind, but surely it should report that this was said, even if only to rebut it. Normally, that's the sort of thing that Wikipedia is good at.

Surely, "Happy Birthday" has been played more often than just about any pop or rock song, although "Wichita Lineman" is a much better song.

[lonza leggiera]

…… Kotoko FC (T-H-L) on the other hand, "is a Togolese football club based in Lavié". Again there are no sources to attest to its existence. The only players with articles are Félicien Singbo (T-H-L), who is from Benin, and whose article does not mention any time at this club, and Edmé Codjo (T-H-L), also from Benin, and a manager. There is a link to the Kotoko FC article from Patricia Appiagyei (T-H-L), a Ghanaian politician whose husband was formerly the chairman of the similarly named Asante Kotoko S.C. (T-H-L) in Ghana.

The dubious list of players was added by Saanigood (T-C-L), their only surviving edit. I think it clear that this list is completely bogus.

Google maps shows no sign of "Lavié-Agoviépé" or "Lavié" at the indicated coordinates, or anywhere else. This does not appear to be the official name of any region in Togo.


Does this club exist? …

According to one page on FIFA's (T-H-L) official website, Kotoko FC came last in the most recent season of Togo's Championnat National de Première Division, with no wins, 4 draws and 22 losses (including one forfeit). The results of its matches are listed here. The infobox in the club's Wikipedia article is now out of date, since it was relegated out of the Première Division at the end of the season.

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Star Wars Hotel (T-H-L) "is a proposed Star Wars-themed luxury hotel to be built near Disney's Hollywood Studios". It "has no set opening date". In other words, this article is nothing but an advert for a forthcoming commercial attraction. But it apparently merits a mention on the front page today. PR puffery.