Involuntary celibacy

[Cla68]

I thought that a simple concept like involuntary celibacy wouldn't be that controversial. There have been actual academic studies into the phenomenon. However, apparently on Wikipedia, it is highly suspect.

I think there are a couple of reasons why Wikipedians view the topic with distrust. One, is that the related "incels" meme is used on 4chan and the Reddit "Men's Rights" sub-forums, and anything those people accept must be denigrated by the current house POV in WP. More than that, however, is that I think the topic hits a little close to home for a lot of Wikipedians. I suspect a lack of success in mating strategy is a common problem with Wikipedia's regulars. Therefore, an article treating it as some kind of disease must make them a little uncomfortable.

[tarantino]

I suspect a lack of success in mating strategy is a common problem with Wikipedia's regulars.

Yes, his eight year drought is not surprising.

== Summary == Taken by friend with my camera, this image is public domain. Picture of Ryan Bushby(me). == Licensing == {{PD-self}}

[Johnny Au]

Do popes and cardinals count for involuntary celibacy?

[Jimbo Jambo]

Do popes and cardinals count for involuntary celibacy?

Seems voluntary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBJwg2- ... u.be&t=125

[Drijfzand]

I thought that a simple concept like involuntary celibacy wouldn't be that controversial.

Didn't know it meant

men who blame women, feminism, or society, for their inability to have sexual relationships with women .... "one of the Internet’s most-reviled subcultures" ... "the shared belief being that men are entitled to govern women’s bodies." ... men who "resent women for being too picky to sleep with them" ... men who feel that women "owe" them sex.

[Tarc]

Ugh, another topic topic pushed and pushed and pushed by an obsessive-compulsive wiki-gnome, this time Valoem (T-C-L). Can't other articles like sexual frustration (T-H-L) cover the same ground, without the woe-to-the-repressed-nerds meme of "love shyness" ?

[Zironic]

Incel looks like something that should have a wiktionary entry, not an a wikipedia entry. Involuntary celibacy as a concept should probably be covered under some topic or another and I don't think I care in the slightest which one, the Sexual Frustration one suggested by Tarc looks like a fine enough place.

On a personal anecdotal level, I don't sympathize too much with those who consider themselves involuntary celibate. My own experience has been that whenever I've been willing to put in the effort to get laid I've been able to do so and I don't consider myself particularly attractive or charming. All you actually need to do is contact single girls and not act appear like a creep.

So if the only thing actually stopping someone from having sex is not trying, is that actually involuntary? Are you involuntary unfit if you want to be fit but you can't be bothered to go to the gym?

In some cases there might be psychological or medical issues in play, but in those cases the problem isn't the lack of fitness or sex, the problem is the lack of trying and that's where the attention needs to be directed and where the solution will be found.

[Hex]

oh_god_not_this_shit_again.jpg

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Involuntary celibacy (T-H-L) (December 2006)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denise Donnelly (T-H-L) (May 2014) - note move log at Denise Donnelly (T-H-L)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Denise Donnelly (2nd nomination) (T-H-L) (December 2014)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Involuntary celibacy (2nd nomination) (T-H-L) (January 2014)
• Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 June 9#Involuntary celibacy
• Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2014 December 7 (T-H-L)
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Involuntary celibacy (3rd nomination) (T-H-L) (August 2015)

[Zironic]

The Denise Donnelly discussion made for some absurd reading. So as far as I can tell from the discussion, Denise Donelly is borderline notable and an article on her is fine per see. However her article was deleted due to being a playing piece in the PoV war over 'incel'.

[Cla68]

The culture wars seem to get involved with the incel tag, because pickup artists claim that if more men knew "game," there would be less involuntary celibacy and less spree killings by homicidal incels. The other side says that "game" is a bunch of misogynistic baloney, and that spree killings are caused by men whose naturally occurring (or socially constructed desire to maintain male privilege) misogyny spills over into outright murderous persecution against women. Thus, the attempts to promote or suppress an article on incels has political connotations.

There have been several serial killers, like Ted Bundy, who were accomplished womanizers (charismatic dark triad and it's benefits for sexual strategizing). But, I can't think of a single male spree killer who was successful with women.

[Jim]

But, I can't think of a single male spree killer who was successful with women.

I can't imagine where I'd go to prove, or disprove that. Wait. Does wikipedia have a category?

Edit: Oh, close: Category:Spree_killers_by_nationality (T-H-L)

[Cla68]

But, I can't think of a single male spree killer who was successful with women.

I can't imagine where I'd go to prove, or disprove that. Wait. Does wikipedia have a category?

It's such a politically-loaded concept, I wouldn't be surprised if not a single academic study has been undertaken to study that aspect of it.

[Zironic]

The culture wars seem to get involved with the incel tag, because pickup artists claim that if more men knew "game," there would be less involuntary celibacy and less spree killings by homicidal incels. The other side says that "game" is a bunch of misogynistic baloney, and that spree killings are caused by men whose naturally occurring misogyny spills over into outright murderous persecution against women. Thus, the attempts to promote or suppress an article on incels has political connotations.

There have been several serial killers, like Ted Bundy, who were accomplished womanizers (charismatic dark triad and it's benefits for sexual strategizing). But, I can't think of a single male spree killer who was successful with women.

The pickup artists are probably technically correct in that in the same way it would be technically correct to say that you could use raw sewage to put out forest fires. While it could work it's not likely to be the preferred method to go about it.

There are a lot of people out there that could really use more help to overcome social anxieties and while "game" is one way to overcome such anxieties I wouldn't consider it the most appropriate one.

[eagle]

The first lesson in most writing classes is "write about what you know."

[Cla68]

The culture wars seem to get involved with the incel tag, because pickup artists claim that if more men knew "game," there would be less involuntary celibacy and less spree killings by homicidal incels. The other side says that "game" is a bunch of misogynistic baloney, and that spree killings are caused by men whose naturally occurring misogyny spills over into outright murderous persecution against women. Thus, the attempts to promote or suppress an article on incels has political connotations.

There have been several serial killers, like Ted Bundy, who were accomplished womanizers (charismatic dark triad and it's benefits for sexual strategizing). But, I can't think of a single male spree killer who was successful with women.

The pickup artists are probably technically correct in that in the same way it would be technically correct to say that you could use raw sewage to put out forest fires. While it could work it's not likely to be the preferred method to go about it.

There are a lot of people out there that could really use more help to overcome social anxieties and while "game" is one way to overcome such anxieties I wouldn't consider it the most appropriate one.

Well, it's a Catch-22 situation. Pickup artists claim that the reason Game is necessary is because women are biologically compelled to choose mates who fit a narrow band of specific qualities and which constitute a "top" narrow percentage of available males, which game attempts to replicate. However, if all men then studied and practiced game, then wouldn't it apply that it would force women to further narrow their criteria in order to distinguish the top percentage of males under consideration for mating? The fact is, because women have the prerogative in choosing who they couple with, then it stands to reason that some men will always fit what they are looking for more than others.

[Kelly Martin]

It's topics like this that demonstrate that any reasonable encyclopedia project needs to have professional editors. Some topics cannot be crowdsourced without turning into freakshows, and yet still deserve to have some coverage in a reasonable encyclopedia. This is clearly one of them.

[Zironic]

Well, it's a Catch-22 situation. Pickup artists claim that the reason Game is necessary is because women are biologically compelled to choose mates who fit a narrow band of specific qualities and which constitute a "top" narrow percentage of available males, which game attempts to replicate. However, if all men then studied and practiced game, then wouldn't it apply that it would force women to further narrow their criteria in order to distinguish the top percentage of males under consideration for mating? The fact is, because women have the prerogative in choosing who they couple with, then it stands to reason that some men will always fit what they are looking for more than others.

It's only a Catch-22 in the hypothetical world where their theory isn't complete utter bullshit. There's no reason to believe that women are biologically programmed to pick a 'top mate' and there's no reason to believe that you compete against 'everyone'.

You're only competing against the others who are demonstrating a genuine looking interest in the same person you're demonstrating interest with and the way you are successful is by at the same time demonstrating some quality of your own that's worth being interested in while not demonstrating any of the qualities that would make your partner run for the hills.

If you've ever looked closer at the 'game' techniques, you'll realize that's how they work. The Alpha/Beta stuff is just tacked on quasi-religious bullshit. The part that is true however is that if everyone used 'game' then 'game' would be vastly less successful, however not because the criteria for 'alpha' has changed but rather because a significant part of 'game' is establishing yourself seeming to be a unique and interesting individual and if you're doing the exact same thing that everyone else is doing, you're neither interesting nor unique. This is the number 1 mistake most people who try 'game' to solve all their problems encounter.

[MoldyHay]

The fact is, because women have the prerogative in choosing who they couple with, then it stands to reason that some men will always fit what they are looking for more than others.

PUAs don't hold that women have a choice about who to mate with when a man with Game is in the picture.

[Jim]

PUAs don't hold that women have a choice about who to mate with when a man with Game is in the picture.

I love statements like that, in topics like this. I don't have the faintest idea what they mean, but they are earnest, and obviously come straight from the heart.

[Kelly Martin]

The fact is, because women have the prerogative in choosing who they couple with, then it stands to reason that some men will always fit what they are looking for more than others.

PUAs don't hold that women have a choice about who to mate with when a man with Game is in the picture.

One of the real advantages of being a lesbian is that you can completely ignore all of this idiotic crap.

[Jim]

One of the real advantages of being a lesbian is that you can completely ignore all of this idiotic crap.

I'm not sure you need to be a lesbian to do that. Most of the world seems to manage, most of the time.

[Zironic]

One of the real advantages of being a lesbian is that you can completely ignore all of this idiotic crap.

Well, every dating pool have their own interesting hangups.

[MoldyHay]

One of the real advantages of being a lesbian is that you can completely ignore all of this idiotic crap.

PUAs don't really believe in lesbians, either.

Well, they do, but their language in describing them tends to be ... colorful, and their definition of lesbian is "female who refuse to sleep with me in spite of my Game".

[Jim]

PUAs don't really believe in lesbians, either.

Well, they do, but their language in describing them tends to be ... colorful, and their definition of lesbian is "female who won't sleep with me in spite of my Game".

Do you speak in code like this at, say, Sunday lunch with mum? You're terribly difficult to parse.

[Textnyymi]

All right! Now that we know, once again, that this complex 80/20 resource and energy allocation problem has been with humans for millennia, in every way possible, and more so on Wikipedia where the ratio is possibly 92/8 up to 99/1 in terms of pieces of garbage/decent articles...

What advice would you give to a girl who is short, fat, without a pleasant face, and without some front teeth, who is an incel?

[Kelly Martin]

What advice would you give to a girl who is short, fat, without a pleasant face, and without some front teeth, who is an incel?

No such thing exists. There are no female incels.

[Kelly Martin]

PUAs don't really believe in lesbians, either.

Well, they do, but their language in describing them tends to be ... colorful, and their definition of lesbian is "female who refuse to sleep with me in spite of my Game".

Well, they're not entirely wrong: it's definitely the case that I'm not going to sleep with a PUA, no matter how good his Game is. But that's not what makes me a lesbian.

[Jim]

What advice would you give to a girl who is short, fat, without a pleasant face, and without some front teeth, who is an incel?

Good dentistry, a healthy diet, and not to take so much notice of what trolls say on the internet. I don't expect you will agree with the last part.

[Zironic]

What advice would you give to a girl who is short, fat, without a pleasant face, and without some front teeth, who is an incel?

No such thing exists. There are no female incels.

I suppose that depends on how you define things. There certainly exists plenty of women who wish they were sexually active but are not for various reasons.

[Textnyymi]

No such thing exists. There are no female incels.

Why? If there are characteristics that make males undesirable and force them to be incels, then surely there are characteristics that make females undesirable and force them to be incels as well, be it because they're disliked or because of fear of backbiting and character assassination.

And it also depends on where they live! Life styles in California and New York may be a thing which the Internets loves to show in those popular videos related to redpillerism; I doubt that would be the same in many rural zones outside of the anglosphere!

[Tarc]

No such thing exists. There are no female incels.

Why?

100 women approach 100 men and ask "do you want to sleep with me?" Likely result, 99 sexual relations.
100 men approach 100 women and ask "do you want to sleep with me?" Likely result, 99 slaps across the face.

[Zironic]

100 women approach 100 men and ask "do you want to sleep with me?" Likely result, 99 sexual relations.
100 men approach 100 women and ask "do you want to sleep with me?" Likely result, 99 slaps across the face.

The problem that most women that wish they were sexually active but are not face, is that they don't want to have sex with any random sleezebag. Things become much harder when you upgrade your requirement from merely being in possession of a penis.

[Kelly Martin]

The problem that most women that wish they were sexually active but are not face, is that they don't want to have sex with any random sleezebag. Things become much harder when you upgrade your requirement from merely being in possession of a penis.

Yes, but that's not because the woman can't find someone willing to have sex with her, it's because she can't find someone she's willing to have sex with. Fundamentally, it is her voluntary decision that leads to not having sex, not someone else's, and so the lack of sex is not "involuntary".

For incels, the problem is that they can't find anyone willing to have sex with them at all, typically because they're creeptastic goons, because they're so intimidated by the world that they're afraid even to ask someone to have sex with them, or because they believe that they should not have to ask, or at least should not have to deal with all the complicated nonsense of dating and flirting to get to the sex, which is really all they want anyway.

Fundamentally, this is an aspect of American rape culture (because it's an aspect of the male presumption of the right to have sex and the tendency of some men to deny women agency over their own bodies and lives), and it really can't be analyzed any other way. It's appropriate for Wikipedia to have content about this, but it's impossible for Wikipedia's crowdsourced community, especially given its demographics and house POV, to write a reasonable article on this topic.

[Zironic]

The most disturbing example to me was that murderer a while back that was actually fairly handsome and rich. However in the diaries and manifestos he published he complained about being good looking and rich wasn't by itself enough for the girls to throw themselves at him. The fact he actually had to talk to the girls was too much for him to bear and what he claimed triggered his killing spree was watching poorer/less attractive people then himself be successful with girls, it boggled my mind.

To me that's a bit like bringing a Formula 1 car to the neighbourhood race track competing against Ladas, only to refuse to actually drive, watching one of the Ladas win the race and then get mad because you didn't win. It doesn't matter how good equipment you have if you don't use it.

[Poetlister]

This is embarrassing for Cla68.

Keep. Nice start to a well sourced article. Also, agree with rationale by Cla68, above. Cheers, — Cirt (talk) 12:43, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

[Casliber]

The culture wars seem to get involved with the incel tag, because pickup artists claim that if more men knew "game," there would be less involuntary celibacy and less spree killings by homicidal incels. The other side says that "game" is a bunch of misogynistic baloney, and that spree killings are caused by men whose naturally occurring (or socially constructed desire to maintain male privilege) misogyny spills over into outright murderous persecution against women. Thus, the attempts to promote or suppress an article on incels has political connotations.

There have been several serial killers, like Ted Bundy, who were accomplished womanizers (charismatic dark triad and it's benefits for sexual strategizing). But, I can't think of a single male spree killer who was successful with women.

It's more complex than that - I suspect some sociopathic men might have been domineering in a series of abusive relationships with women whoe remained with them out of fear of pathological dependency...and they may see themselves as "successful" or then perhaps "not" if their partners are not playmate material. Who knows.

[Casliber]

FWIW.....http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... book-truth

[Zironic]

FWIW.....http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... book-truth

That's really interesting. It was a long time ago now that I read 'The Game' but my memory tells me that in the last chapter he wrote about how while the techniques of 'The game' were useful to get one-night stands, they can't help you maintain a relationship because you'll run out of tricks and have to show your true self. He wrote that he was no longer interested in the 'game' techniques as he was intending to pursue a serious relationship.

Seems in retrospect that turned out to be a lot easier to write then do.

[Casliber]

The problem that most women that wish they were sexually active but are not face, is that they don't want to have sex with any random sleezebag. Things become much harder when you upgrade your requirement from merely being in possession of a penis.

Yes, but that's not because the woman can't find someone willing to have sex with her, it's because she can't find someone she's willing to have sex with. Fundamentally, it is her voluntary decision that leads to not having sex, not someone else's, and so the lack of sex is not "involuntary".

For incels, the problem is that they can't find anyone willing to have sex with them at all, typically because they're creeptastic goons, because they're so intimidated by the world that they're afraid even to ask someone to have sex with them, or because they believe that they should not have to ask, or at least should not have to deal with all the complicated nonsense of dating and flirting to get to the sex, which is really all they want anyway.

Fundamentally, this is an aspect of American rape culture (because it's an aspect of the male presumption of the right to have sex and the tendency of some men to deny women agency over their own bodies and lives), and it really can't be analyzed any other way. It's appropriate for Wikipedia to have content about this, but it's impossible for Wikipedia's crowdsourced community, especially given its demographics and house POV, to write a reasonable article on this topic.

It shows the wisdom of applying the rules of wikiproject medicine more broadly to psychology/psychiatry articles, where material that has not been broadly reviewed and/or analyzed in secondary academic sources can be discarded. Or putting it another way, most people with any psychological/psychiatric literacy at all would know that the causes of unsatisfactory relationships can be found in entities like social phobia, agoraphobia, anxiety, depression, psychosis (at times) and personality disorder without reifying some entity called "involuntary celibacy" which will prevent people with this problem getting proper help.

[spartaz]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ecember_21
...... and its back...... What a surprise.....

Its appears our hero has an objection to the article being at its natural home and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ion/Incels

[MisterTester]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ecember_21
...... and its back...... What a surprise.....

Its appears our hero has an objection to the article being at its natural home and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ion/Incels

Just put the article up with this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ12s6AxL0w

There is no such thing as an incel. Anyone can have sex.

If you cannot, there is no conspiracy. You just need therapy and to be honest with your psychiatrist.

Of course, that would probably mean being institutionalized.

[Wonderer]

Probably most Wikipediots are homophobes. If a Wikipediot is feeling particularly desperate by his inability to get with a woman, he should try putting an ad on Craigslist for an MSM encounter and respond to the most appealing offer. Even if he chickens out and doesn't go through with it, he will magically become more appealing to women. Something about not coming across as desperate.

I know that this would sound quite absurd to a Wikipediot, given their need to simplify matters of human sexuality. Not that any of you here need more examples of this, but: Gaydar (T-H-L).

Gaydar (a portmanteau of gay and radar) is a colloquialism referring to the intuitive ability of a person to assess others' sexual orientations as gay, bisexual or heterosexual. Gaydar relies almost exclusively on non-verbal clues and LGBT stereotypes. These include (but are not limited to) the sensitivity to social behaviors and mannerisms; for instance, acknowledging flamboyant body language, the tone of voice used by a person when speaking, overtly rejecting traditional gender roles, a person's occupation, and grooming habits.

[Kelly Martin]

I actually think it's appropriate for Wikipedia to have content about the "incel" phenomenon. Not content justifying the incel theory itself; that's obvious hogwash. Rather, the article should be about the trend in the United States for men to whine incessantly about their inability to get dates (which is in no way a new phenomenon) and to blame that failure not simply on being insufficiently attractive or sexy (as was the case in years gone by) but on a conspiracy to deny them sex, or some other external, often malevolent, force, with which they have no hope to compete and which they must therefore eliminate through force. It's this phenomenon, and the violence that proceeds from it, that is notable.

[MisterTester]

The problem that most women that wish they were sexually active but are not face, is that they don't want to have sex with any random sleezebag. Things become much harder when you upgrade your requirement from merely being in possession of a penis.

Yes, but that's not because the woman can't find someone willing to have sex with her, it's because she can't find someone she's willing to have sex with. Fundamentally, it is her voluntary decision that leads to not having sex, not someone else's, and so the lack of sex is not "involuntary".

For incels, the problem is that they can't find anyone willing to have sex with them at all, typically because they're creeptastic goons, because they're so intimidated by the world that they're afraid even to ask someone to have sex with them, or because they believe that they should not have to ask, or at least should not have to deal with all the complicated nonsense of dating and flirting to get to the sex, which is really all they want anyway.

Fundamentally, this is an aspect of American rape culture (because it's an aspect of the male presumption of the right to have sex and the tendency of some men to deny women agency over their own bodies and lives), and it really can't be analyzed any other way. It's appropriate for Wikipedia to have content about this, but it's impossible for Wikipedia's crowdsourced community, especially given its demographics and house POV, to write a reasonable article on this topic.

It shows the wisdom of applying the rules of wikiproject medicine more broadly to psychology/psychiatry articles, where material that has not been broadly reviewed and/or analyzed in secondary academic sources can be discarded. Or putting it another way, most people with any psychological/psychiatric literacy at all would know that the causes of unsatisfactory relationships can be found in entities like social phobia, agoraphobia, anxiety, depression, psychosis (at times) and personality disorder without reifying some entity called "involuntary celibacy" which will prevent people with this problem getting proper help.

If I had seen this post before the election, I would have voted for you.

Your description is spot on.

People aged 15-25 that socialize, go to parties, movies, get-togethers and bars will have an opportunity to engage in sexual activity. Unless they have a mental disorder that prevents them from coming across as a normal person.

The incel people like to call this "love shyness". It's not.

And if the underlying disorder is not properly treated, and people believe that this is a real thing and start blaming their inability to engage in sexual activity on the ones they desire, it becomes dangerous. Like Elliot Rodger.

[MisterTester]

I actually think it's appropriate for Wikipedia to have content about the "incel" phenomenon. Not content justifying the incel theory itself; that's obvious hogwash. Rather, the article should be about the trend in the United States for men to whine incessantly about their inability to get dates (which is in no way a new phenomenon) and to blame that failure not simply on being insufficiently attractive or sexy (as was the case in years gone by) but on a conspiracy to deny them sex, or some other external, often malevolent, force, with which they have no hope to compete and which they must therefore eliminate through force. It's this phenomenon, and the violence that proceeds from it, that is notable.

There are almost no people "insufficiently attractive or sexy" to have sex.

But having an article like you suggest would only draw more problems, and become a battleground for warring factions.

Best not to have an article about a make believe subject in the first place than to try and have an article explaining why it is a make believe subject.

[Kelly Martin]

I actually think it's appropriate for Wikipedia to have content about the "incel" phenomenon. Not content justifying the incel theory itself; that's obvious hogwash. Rather, the article should be about the trend in the United States for men to whine incessantly about their inability to get dates (which is in no way a new phenomenon) and to blame that failure not simply on being insufficiently attractive or sexy (as was the case in years gone by) but on a conspiracy to deny them sex, or some other external, often malevolent, force, with which they have no hope to compete and which they must therefore eliminate through force. It's this phenomenon, and the violence that proceeds from it, that is notable.

There are almost no people "insufficiently attractive or sexy" to have sex.

But having an article like you suggest would only draw more problems, and become a battleground for warring factions.

Best not to have an article about a make believe subject in the first place than to try and have an article explaining why it is a make believe subject.

If Wikipedia were edited by reasonable people, a reasonable article could be have. With Wikipedia's current editor population and policies, I agree with you: Wikipedia is incapable of hosting a reasonable article about this topic.

[Peryglus]

This is all stupid. There's arguments about whether there should be articles on the topic of people who aren't getting any? Everyone should use some common sense and move on to the more important things in life.

[Casliber]

I actually think it's appropriate for Wikipedia to have content about the "incel" phenomenon. Not content justifying the incel theory itself; that's obvious hogwash. Rather, the article should be about the trend in the United States for men to whine incessantly about their inability to get dates (which is in no way a new phenomenon) and to blame that failure not simply on being insufficiently attractive or sexy (as was the case in years gone by) but on a conspiracy to deny them sex, or some other external, often malevolent, force, with which they have no hope to compete and which they must therefore eliminate through force. It's this phenomenon, and the violence that proceeds from it, that is notable.

In which case the whole area would be covered under different articles with different names.

[Textnyymi]

People aged 15-25 that socialize, go to parties, movies, get-togethers and bars will have an opportunity to engage in sexual activity. Unless they have a mental disorder that prevents them from coming across as a normal person.

Prostitution is illegal in the whole US except Nevada and is legal and somewhat regulated in most of Europe and South America. However, sites like Craigslist and Tinder are exceedingly popular in the US, and are certainly used to skip the illegality problem.

If it's really this much of a problem, people like Elliott can solve it through a simple money transaction, which is probably better than having a few people get killed on the street.

[MisterTester]

People aged 15-25 that socialize, go to parties, movies, get-togethers and bars will have an opportunity to engage in sexual activity. Unless they have a mental disorder that prevents them from coming across as a normal person.

Prostitution is illegal in the whole US except Nevada and is legal and somewhat regulated in most of Europe and South America. However, sites like Craigslist and Tinder are exceedingly popular in the US, and are certainly used to skip the illegality problem.

If it's really this much of a problem, people like Elliott can solve it through a simple money transaction, which is probably better than having a few people get killed on the street.

That goes against the real problem. Anyone can find a prostitute in almost any locale in the USA.

These incel types think that is beneath them, and they deserve to have sex with the objects of their desire.

And that they are being prevented from this goal by conspiracy, from the people they desire.

Which is why mental health is the answer here.