What is "the community"?

[Ross McPherson]

I don’t want to go into details here, merely recording the fact that my primary account at WP has now been deleted. It turns out I was just some text inserted into some articles. So to all Wikipedians I say – stop fooling yourselves. You are not people but words to be cut, pasted, deleted and distorted at the whim of your masters. To those arseholes who twisted the truth just to get rid of me, I say we all got what we deserved. I’m out of that place and you are not.

Now here is my question.

Wikipedians are forever talking about "the community" but have they actually defined it anywhere? Is it only paid employees, or does it include admins? Is it all subscribers or anyone at all who ever edited even once? Does it include readers? Perhaps Jimbo and his band of privileged mediocrities like to keep the term as nebulous as possible just to make themselves look bigger than they are.

Any answers from the Wikipedians here? What exactly is "the community"?

[Wonderer]

The community is a large group of real, distinct people who all agree with you on the issues that are important to you (e.g., capitalization of massacres, whether Han Solo shot first, is Peter North gay?) but disagree with you on matters that are unimportant or irrelevant to you (e.g., should the church garden in a town far from where you live be converted into a parking lot?).

The large group of people who disagree with you are in fact just one crazy guy and his vast army of sockpuppets.

[thekohser]

What exactly is "the community"?

com·mu·ni·ty
kəˈmyo͞onədē/
noun
1.
a group of assholes who edit Wikipedia who are responsible for forming consensus
2.
an uprising that can be put down with a tool called Superprotect (see also this)

[Ross McPherson]

Kohser's link is to a thread here titled Foundation versus 'community'.

So 'the community' may be defined as “not WMF”?

Hmm, yet Jimbo seems to speak for ‘the community’ in this quote that I am pinching from Vigilant in the Jimboland forum:linkhttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =660814590[/link]

As the wise old man of wikipedia - or anyway the old man of wikipedia - I'll just point out that there was a massive and very interesting discussion around this when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans nearly 10 years ago. Lots of websites (more than normal) were running special advertisements for the Red Cross and similar. But it was concluded (and as I recall, as I argued) that this was a pretty bad case of US-centrism. But what came out of the discussion was the idea that doing ad hoc appeals in emergencies was fraught with complications and difficulties and if it is even possible at all, some reasonable process must exist for it to be fair.

But a lot has happened since then, including "strikes" against bad legislation in several Wikipedia languages including Italian, English, and Russian, with mostly successful results. These were organized in relatively short order and while nothing is ever quite 100%, the community in general seems quite happy with the result.

I have always said that we are more than just a highly technical effort - Wikipedia is a moral statement about the kind of world we would like to live in. I see room for action in this kind of situation, but rather than having this conversation at the moment of emergency, where all the usual complexities tend to weigh against action of any kind, I'd rather see us have a more focussed and serious conversation about how we ought to use our invisible and unused power to put things on the global agenda in a major way.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:58, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

He seems to view ‘the community’ as an international community of Wikedians including himself, a vast, invisible network of people somehow able to engage in focussed conversations, responding to threats and emergencies confronting itself/himself and the world at large, able to scare the shit out of governments who don’t share its/his agenda. Though the reference is explicitly to Wikipedians, it seems to be a group of people generally referred to in arguments around the globe as the moral majority.

If he is right, I have not left the ‘community’ even though my Wikipedia account has been deleted. It is nice to feel I still belong in its warm embrace.

[Poetlister]

The "community" is in theory all the editors or at least all the active editors with accounts. Of course, when people refer to a "community decision", as with an AfD, it refers to a very very small proportion of the community, and often a highly unrespresentative group. Most editors know little or nothing of AfDs; even those who do may not participate very often. The stupidest thing is a "community ban", which is certainly not decided by a large or representative group.

[Randy from Boise]

"Community" in Wikipedia terms means the set of volunteers who participate regularly and extensively in the writing or maintaining of content or the governance of the website.

It's not defined anywhere, I just made that up.

A person driving by and dropping an article off or making a handful of edits is not part of "the community," nor someone who quietly reads along, never hitting the SAVE button. It implies substantial commitment to The Project over time, not just to the content of one or two articles.

RfB

i.e. Community = "Core Volunteers"

[Poetlister]

"Community" in Wikipedia terms means the set of volunteers who participate regularly and extensively in the writing or maintaining of content or the governance of the website.

It's not defined anywhere, I just made that up.

A person driving by and dropping an article off or making a handful of edits is not part of "the community," nor someone who quietly reads along, never hitting the SAVE button. It implies substantial commitment to The Project over time, not just to the content of one or two articles.

RfB

i.e. Community = "Core Volunteers"

Are you saying that anyone who has not contributed enough is not in the community and so is forbidden to take part in community discussions? That is true for a handful of thingsl like ArbCom elections, but is certainly not the general rule.

[thekohser]

Are you saying that anyone who has not contributed enough is not in the community and so is forbidden to take part in community discussions? That is true for a handful of thingsl like ArbCom elections, but is certainly not the general rule.

Don't forget, community discussions on Wikipedia are not limited to community members. Any asshole may participate.

[Ross McPherson]

Community = "Core Volunteers"

Yeah Peter Damien, in Kohser's link, came up with some quaint mathematics too: "Content creators and the 'Wikipedians' (= community = admins)"

It is typical Wikipedian shoddy-ass procedure for everyone to use a term that obviously is important to them without having an agreed definition. This kind of consensus is an abuse of language. I don't think that place is capable of any other kind of consensus.

[Triptych]

The "community" is in theory all the editors or at least all the active editors with accounts. Of course, when people refer to a "community decision", as with an AfD, it refers to a very very small proportion of the community, and often a highly unrespresentative group. Most editors know little or nothing of AfDs; even those who do may not participate very often. The stupidest thing is a "community ban", which is certainly not decided by a large or representative group.

Yeah, that is the most abhorrent usage that I know of. Six or seven drama-regulars at WP:AN/ANI mob a victim, and he or she is told "you are now banned by the community."

I have also actually seen, though I'd be hard-pressed to link it, an administrator or two describe his or her unilateral blocking of an editor as an act of "the community." The idea was that the community expressed its will by granting him or her adminship, and therefore his or her blocking actions were now fairly marked as those of the community.

Lila Tretikov said somewhere when asked, that "the community" consists of *all* the editors and administrative participants.

Because WP:AN/ANI is comprised almost completely of a self-selecting and non-representative group of Wikipedians, it shouldn't be called "the community," which it constantly is. The same thing should be said about the process that elects Arbcom. The arbs are not elected by "the community," rather the voters are heavily, heavily made up of administrative participants and drama-regulars. If there ever were to be a more representative Arbcom, the election would have to be advertised in a banner like they do for donations, to pull in some content editors.

[Vigilant]

The "community" is in theory all the editors or at least all the active editors with accounts. Of course, when people refer to a "community decision", as with an AfD, it refers to a very very small proportion of the community, and often a highly unrespresentative group. Most editors know little or nothing of AfDs; even those who do may not participate very often. The stupidest thing is a "community ban", which is certainly not decided by a large or representative group.

Yeah, that is the most abhorrent usage that I know of. Six or seven drama-regulars at WP:AN/ANI mob a victim, and he or she is told "you are now banned by the community."

I have also actually seen, though I'd be hard-pressed to link it, an administrator or two describe his or her unilateral blocking of an editor as an act of "the community." The idea was that the community expressed its will by granting him or her adminship, and therefore his or her blocking actions were now fairly marked as those of the community.

Lila Tretikov said somewhere when asked, that "the community" consists of *all* the editors and administrative participants.

Because WP:AN/ANI is comprised almost completely of a self-selecting and non-representative group of Wikipedians, it shouldn't be called "the community," which it constantly is. The same thing should be said about the process that elects Arbcom. The arbs are not elected by "the community," rather the voters are heavily, heavily made up of administrative participants and drama-regulars. If there ever were to be a more representative Arbcom, the election would have to be advertised in a banner like they do for donations, to pull in some content editors.

The mob

[Wonderer]

As I reread your initial posting, I realized that the first time I failed to read where you wrote "Any answers from the Wikipedians here?" I do not now consider, nor have I ever considered myself a "Wikipedian" or "Wikipediot." But just to be sure I decided to look up "Wikipedian" in Wikipedia. Not that I consider Wikipedia a reliable source for any information whatsoever, even information about itself. But imagine my surprise when I saw that "Wikipedian" redirects to "Wikipedia community (T-H-L)."

The Wikipedia community is the community of contributors to the online encyclopedia Wikipedia. Individual contributors are known as "Wikipedians". Oxford English Dictionary added the word "Wikipedian" in August 2012.[1]

The overwhelming majority of Wikipedians are volunteers. With the increased maturity and visibility of Wikipedia other categories of Wikipedians emerged, such as Wikipedian in residence and students with assignments related to editing Wikipedia.

Slightly more meaningful and much less self-congratulatory is Oxford's definition of Wikipedian:

A person who contributes to the collaboratively written online encyclopedia Wikipedia, especially on a regular basis: to committed Wikipedians, the site is the embodiment of an ideology of free information for all.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... Wikipedian

Nevertheless, I believe some Wikipediots are counting among the community the thousands of people who view Wikipedia articles but never edit. Surely these people must approve of the status quo, because otherwise they would make their voices heard, right?

P.S. "Wikipediot" is a "redirect for discussion."

[sparkzilla]

It's a perfect example of Doublespeak. A community that you can be part of, while simultaneously being excluded. A community that sounds like many, but only has a few members who matter. A community that sounds open, but is closed. A community that sounds welcoming, but is a clique. A community that sounds benign, but wields power.

Orwell:

In our time, political speech and writing are largely the defence of the indefensible… Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness… the great enemy of clear language is insincerity. Where there is a gap between one's real and one's declared aims, one turns as it were instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms.

[greyed.out.fields]

A massively over-used word that has become pretty much meaningless.

Granfalloon (T-H-L)

If you wish to study a granfalloon
Just remove the skin of a toy ballooon

[Notvelty]

The community is a large group of real, distinct people who all agree with you on the issues that are important to you (e.g., capitalization of massacres, whether Han Solo shot first, is Peter North gay?) but disagree with you on matters that are unimportant or irrelevant to you (e.g., should the church garden in a town far from where you live be converted into a parking lot?).

The large group of people who disagree with you are in fact just one crazy guy and his vast army of sockpuppets.

+1

And this definition is not limited to wikipedia, but extends into into all areas where one human being believes they and their beliefs are superior by definition. cf: any totalitarian regime ever.

[Ross McPherson]

...I decided to look up "Wikipedian" in Wikipedia. Not that I consider Wikipedia a reliable source for any information whatsoever, even information about itself. But imagine my surprise when I saw that "Wikipedian" redirects to "Wikipedia community (T-H-L)."

Well there we have something like a definition. I quote from the article you linked to:

Studies of the size of the community of Wikipedia showed an exponential growth rate of the number of Wikipedia contributors during the early years. By 2009, the growth of the community slowed down.[2] In November 2011, there were approximately 31.7 million registered user accounts across all language editions, of which around 270,000 accounts were active on a monthly basis.[3] In April 2008, writer and lecturer Clay Shirky and computer scientist Martin Wattenberg estimated the total effort to create Wikipedia at roughly 100 million man-hours.[4] As of October 2013, the community of volunteers declined at least by a third since 2007 and is continuing to drop. Some 31,000 editors are active on the project. Despite being fewer in number, these editors continue to increase the number and length of Wikipedia's articles. About half of the active editors spend at least one hour a day editing, and a fifth spend more than three hours.[5]

So when Jimmy talks about the community, he means the 31 000 "active" accounts today and diminishing. That's about the size of a big football club, isn't it? Hmmm, let's have another look at his rallying call to the faithful quoted above:

Wikipedia is a moral statement about the kind of world we would like to live in. I see room for action in this kind of situation, but rather than having this conversation at the moment of emergency, where all the usual complexities tend to weigh against action of any kind, I'd rather see us have a more focussed and serious conversation about how we ought to use our invisible and unused power to put things on the global agenda in a major way.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:58, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Maybe "the community" is like one of those soccer clubs full of hooligans able to terrorize entire cities. Or maybe Wikipedians and their great leader are just full of shit. Or is he thinking of all those millions of man-hours? Yes I am pretty sure Jimmy and his merry band of mediocrities never thought of other Wikipedians as people - they are just man-hours in the bank, a pile of social and political capital to help the family "put things on the global agenda in a major way."

[Ross McPherson]

Manchester United is estimated to have 659 million supporters: linkhttp://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-21478857[/link].

Well yes the numbers are a bit rubbery - it all depends on how you define things. But its rubbery numbers beat Jimbo's ginormous mandate for world change. I don't suppose the MU supporters would be interested in world change though.

[eagle]

Assuming that the "community" somehow equates to content creators or people who care about the quality of Wikipedia, we have an interesting dilemma. Many people have observed that Wikipedia has become a gigantic MMORPG where folks try to ban the "community members" with which they disagree. As this continues over time, there are now (or will be shortly) more "community members" who are banned, blocked, or driven away than there are people entitled to edit. So, the process reaches a point where a majority of people who should have a voice in "community consensus" are without a voice in decision-making. By definition, if you care enough about quality issues and want to improve Wikipedia, you will not have any say in decisions affecting quality issues or Wikipedia improvement.

Does Mr. Wales' call to action mean that this "silenced majority" of the Community will also be without a voice as Wales builds a consensus on steps toward an improved world?

[Hex]

But imagine my surprise when I saw that "Wikipedian" redirects to "Wikipedia community (T-H-L)."

How things change. Hyuck hyuck: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wikipedia community (T-H-L)

There's also Wikipedia:Wikipedia is a community (T-H-L), meta:The Wikipedia Community (T-H-L), from the very beginning of Wikipedia - check out the early revisions for lots of fighting - and even Wikipedia:The community (T-H-L), a completely ignored and useless page by WhatamIdoing (T-C-L), author of the beloved piece Wikipedia:You don't own Wikipedia (T-H-L).

The mass move of non-article material to Meta, before page namespaces existed, had the interesting side effect of creating a time capsule of pages that otherwise would have been removed or rendered unrecognizable in the ensuing decade.

[thekohser]

But imagine my surprise when I saw that "Wikipedian" redirects to "Wikipedia community (T-H-L)."

How things change.

Hyuck hyuck: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wikipedia community (T-H-L)

There's also Wikipedia:The community (T-H-L), a completely ignored and useless page by WhatamIdoing (T-C-L), author of the beloved piece Wikipedia:You don't own Wikipedia (T-H-L).

Isn't it interesting that Wikipedia doesn't have any similar articles about other Internet-focused communities, like the Etsy community (T-H-L), the World of Warcraft community (T-H-L), or the Wikipediocracy community (T-H-L) (to which "Gang of rabid shitweasels" could redirect)?

There are, however, Wikipedia articles about virtual community (T-H-L) (though it "reads like an essay"), world community (T-H-L) (such a sad little stub), scientific community (T-H-L), bisexual community (T-H-L), LGBT community (T-H-L), and of course the all-important Aquatic communities in the British National Vegetation Classification system (T-H-L).

[Poetlister]

the all-important Aquatic communities in the British National Vegetation Classification system (T-H-L).

This seems to be about collections of pondweed in stagnant water. Is that remotely similar to the Wikipedia community?

[Zoloft]

the all-important Aquatic communities in the British National Vegetation Classification system (T-H-L).

This seems to be about collections of pondweed in stagnant water. Is that remotely similar to the Wikipedia community?

Enough that we could use it as a control group.

[Ross McPherson]

But imagine my surprise when I saw that "Wikipedian" redirects to "Wikipedia community (T-H-L)."

How things change. Hyuck hyuck: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wikipedia community (T-H-L)....

Thanks for this info Hex, one of my all time favourite admins (a tiny group).

The AfD discussion you link to was March 2007 and it was judged as no-consensus. How bloody typical of the “community”! So I went through the history of all the 55 AfD contributors since then just to see how this group of Wikipedians is faring today (I ought to reinvent myself as a Wikgnome).

0nly 22% of the contributors are still very active, and no prizes for guessing which group dominates these enthusiasts – yes admins, comprising: Anthony Bradbury, Pigman, Cuchullain, MER-C, WJBscribe, AniMate, SlimVirgin, Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington.

Non-admins still going strong: Shenme (Wikignome), EveryKing, SmokeyJoe, Meno 25 (ESL, Egyptian)

The others are GOING GOING GONE. If you study the list below, you’ll see that the “community” is not unlike a group of bus passengers, who go their distance and get out. Unlike in other buses, however, there is a lot of subterfuge going on, with many of the passengers doomed one way or another. How Jimmy gets to be spokesman of this community as a moral force on the global stage is up to you to decide, dear reader. Personally, I don't think bus drivers have that authority.

So here are the rest of the contributors to that AfD discussion, with dates of last edit and other details:
Vox Rationis: Nov 2012
Quackguru – page deleted
Veesicle – blocked 2007
Conti – one edit this year in Feb
Munta – 3 edits in 2014, 2 in 2013
Pious7 – July 2007
Uncle G – 2 edits this years, 7 in 2014
Dennisthe2 – 2 edits this year, 17 last year
TBC – Aug 2008
JoshuaZ – 7 edits this year, 17 edits last year
Sr13 – Dec 2009
Dhartung – 9 edits this year
FrozenPurpleCube – deleted March 2008
Ulysses Zagreb – June 2007
Lemon martini – 9 edits this year, 30 last year
Lanky – Jan 2010
Alex Shih – 2 edits this year, 16 edits last year
4Kinnel – deleted
Guitarmankev1 – May 2013
Portland12 – deleted
AmiDaniel – 2 edits this year, 7 edits last year
No1888 – Aug 2011
Dtobias – 6 edits this year, 20 edits last year
ElinorD – Dec 2008
Isinerathymn – blocked 2010
Mikkalai – sock of Altenmann
Danntm – Nov 2014
Riana dzasta – deleted
Seicer – “semi-retired” 2009
Wwwwolf – 2 edits this year
Ned Scott – 8 edits this year, 30 last year
Coredesat – Dec 2008 (“off I go again and I hope for the last time”)
CastAStone – 2 edits this year, 2 last year
Gurch – Aug 2013
DennyColt – April 2007
Dev 920 – “effectively retired” 2008
Moe Epsilon – 1 edit this year
Netscott – 4 edits Jan this year, none else since 2011
Johnny89 – blocked 2007 by Ryulong (one of his own puppets?)
Picaroon – March 2008
Reinoutre – deleted
Mermaid from the Baltic Sea – June 2007
Vary – 1 edit this year, 1 edit last year

[EricBarbour]

So here are the rest of the contributors to that AfD discussion, with dates of last edit and other details:
Vox Rationis: Nov 2012
Quackguru – page deleted
Veesicle – blocked 2007
Conti – one edit this year in Feb
Munta – 3 edits in 2014, 2 in 2013
Pious7 – July 2007
Uncle G – 2 edits this years, 7 in 2014
Dennisthe2 – 2 edits this year, 17 last year
TBC – Aug 2008
JoshuaZ – 7 edits this year, 17 edits last year
Sr13 – Dec 2009
Dhartung – 9 edits this year
FrozenPurpleCube – deleted March 2008
Ulysses Zagreb – June 2007
Lemon martini – 9 edits this year, 30 last year
Lanky – Jan 2010
Alex Shih – 2 edits this year, 16 edits last year
4Kinnel – deleted
Guitarmankev1 – May 2013
Portland12 – deleted
AmiDaniel – 2 edits this year, 7 edits last year
No1888 – Aug 2011
Dtobias – 6 edits this year, 20 edits last year
ElinorD – Dec 2008
Isinerathymn – blocked 2010
Mikkalai – sock of Altenmann
Danntm – Nov 2014
Riana dzasta – deleted
Seicer – “semi-retired” 2009
Wwwwolf – 2 edits this year
Ned Scott – 8 edits this year, 30 last year
Coredesat – Dec 2008 (“off I go again and I hope for the last time”)
CastAStone – 2 edits this year, 2 last year
Gurch – Aug 2013
DennyColt – April 2007
Dev 920 – “effectively retired” 2008
Moe Epsilon – 1 edit this year
Netscott – 4 edits Jan this year, none else since 2011
Johnny89 – blocked 2007 by Ryulong (one of his own puppets?)
Picaroon – March 2008
Reinoutre – deleted
Mermaid from the Baltic Sea – June 2007
Vary – 1 edit this year, 1 edit last year

Absolutely typical. People who used to fight like maniacs over things (even petty things like this) have been quitting Wikipedia in droves, if they're not forced out. They are the people who are killing it, and of course they won't admit as much. And an aside: four of those people were administrators who had what I regard as disgusting WP histories. Uncle G, Seicer, JoshuaZ and AmiDaniel are quite familiar to old WR people. (And Dhartung is a close friend of WMF Advisory Board member Jessamyn West. Surely you remember her.)

[thekohser]

How Jimmy gets to be spokesman of this community as a moral force on the global stage is up to you to decide, dear reader. Personally, I don't think bus drivers have that authority.

Don't you realize, though? Jimmy Wales had the very first idea of a hand-built bus, and then he mined iron ore with his bare hands, built a forge, tempered the steel himself, and then built the bus from his own schematic plans. Then he had the generosity to share this new bus with the world, devoid of the ugly advertising you might see on, well, a professional bus.

[sparkzilla]

Let me try...

Jimmy wanted to get to the next town, but he didn't want to walk. His employee said that a guy he knew had invented a thing called a "palanquin". He got the guy to give him the palanquin for free. Then Jimmy told the townspeople, "Take me to the next town using the palanquin. It will make you fit". The people carried Jimmy to the next town, and there was a big celebration. Fitness became a big trend and the people started taking Jimmy back and forth between every town in the nation. The people and Jimmy were happy. Jimmy had an idea to put ads on the side of the palanquin, but the carriers were like, "Hey man, we don't need money, you told us we were doing this to get fit!" Jimmy didn't make the extra money he thought he should have made, but he still got to travel all over the land.

But after a while the people who carried Jimmy got very tired and left. That wasn't a problem for Jimmy, because there were lots of people who wanted to carry Jimmy. In fact, carrying Jimmy had become a status symbol in the town. But the new people weren't quite as fit, so Jimmy set a competition between them to see who was the fittest. The carriers fought amongst each other to see who could carry Jimmy best. Jimmy was happier because he could get to the next town even faster. Win-win! But the carriers grew even more tired, and when the fitness trend stopped there wasn't anyone left in the town who could be bothered carting Jimmy around. Jimmy sat in his palanquin all alone.

Then someone invented a thing called a "car"...

[Sparky]

The AfD discussion you link to was March 2007 and it was judged as no-consensus. How bloody typical of the “community”! So I went through the history of all the 55 AfD contributors since then just to see how this group of Wikipedians is faring today (I ought to reinvent myself as a Wikgnome).

0nly 22% of the contributors are still very active, and no prizes for guessing which group dominates these enthusiasts – yes admins, comprising: Anthony Bradbury, Pigman, Cuchullain, MER-C, WJBscribe, AniMate, SlimVirgin, Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington.

Non-admins still going strong: Shenme (Wikignome), EveryKing, SmokeyJoe, Meno 25 (ESL, Egyptian)

The others are GOING GOING GONE. If you study the list below, you’ll see that the “community” is not unlike a group of bus passengers, who go their distance and get out. Unlike in other buses, however, there is a lot of subterfuge going on, with many of the passengers doomed one way or another. How Jimmy gets to be spokesman of this community as a moral force on the global stage is up to you to decide, dear reader. Personally, I don't think bus drivers have that authority.

So here are the rest of the contributors to that AfD discussion, with dates of last edit and other details:
Vox Rationis: Nov 2012
Quackguru – page deleted
Veesicle – blocked 2007
Conti – one edit this year in Feb
Munta – 3 edits in 2014, 2 in 2013
Pious7 – July 2007
Uncle G – 2 edits this years, 7 in 2014
Dennisthe2 – 2 edits this year, 17 last year
TBC – Aug 2008
JoshuaZ – 7 edits this year, 17 edits last year
Sr13 – Dec 2009
Dhartung – 9 edits this year
FrozenPurpleCube – deleted March 2008
Ulysses Zagreb – June 2007
Lemon martini – 9 edits this year, 30 last year
Lanky – Jan 2010
Alex Shih – 2 edits this year, 16 edits last year
4Kinnel – deleted
Guitarmankev1 – May 2013
Portland12 – deleted
AmiDaniel – 2 edits this year, 7 edits last year
No1888 – Aug 2011
Dtobias – 6 edits this year, 20 edits last year
ElinorD – Dec 2008
Isinerathymn – blocked 2010
Mikkalai – sock of Altenmann
Danntm – Nov 2014
Riana dzasta – deleted
Seicer – “semi-retired” 2009
Wwwwolf – 2 edits this year
Ned Scott – 8 edits this year, 30 last year
Coredesat – Dec 2008 (“off I go again and I hope for the last time”)
CastAStone – 2 edits this year, 2 last year
Gurch – Aug 2013
DennyColt – April 2007
Dev 920 – “effectively retired” 2008
Moe Epsilon – 1 edit this year
Netscott – 4 edits Jan this year, none else since 2011
Johnny89 – blocked 2007 by Ryulong (one of his own puppets?)
Picaroon – March 2008
Reinoutre – deleted
Mermaid from the Baltic Sea – June 2007
Vary – 1 edit this year, 1 edit last year

Thank you for the time you took to research and post this. Sometimes a post just jumps out at me because the point was well made and I can tell that it took some time and effort to put it together.

This is one of those posts.

[mac]

The AfD discussion you link to was March 2007 and it was judged as no-consensus. How bloody typical of the “community”! So I went through the history of all the 55 AfD contributors since then just to see how this group of Wikipedians is faring today (I ought to reinvent myself as a Wikgnome).

0nly 22% of the contributors are still very active, and no prizes for guessing which group dominates these enthusiasts – yes admins, comprising: Anthony Bradbury, Pigman, Cuchullain, MER-C, WJBscribe, AniMate, SlimVirgin, Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington.

Non-admins still going strong: Shenme (Wikignome), EveryKing, SmokeyJoe, Meno 25 (ESL, Egyptian)

The others are GOING GOING GONE. If you study the list below, you’ll see that the “community” is not unlike a group of bus passengers, who go their distance and get out. Unlike in other buses, however, there is a lot of subterfuge going on, with many of the passengers doomed one way or another. How Jimmy gets to be spokesman of this community as a moral force on the global stage is up to you to decide, dear reader. Personally, I don't think bus drivers have that authority.

So here are the rest of the contributors to that AfD discussion, with dates of last edit and other details:
Vox Rationis: Nov 2012
Quackguru – page deleted
Veesicle – blocked 2007
Conti – one edit this year in Feb
Munta – 3 edits in 2014, 2 in 2013
Pious7 – July 2007
Uncle G – 2 edits this years, 7 in 2014
Dennisthe2 – 2 edits this year, 17 last year
TBC – Aug 2008
JoshuaZ – 7 edits this year, 17 edits last year
Sr13 – Dec 2009
Dhartung – 9 edits this year
FrozenPurpleCube – deleted March 2008
Ulysses Zagreb – June 2007
Lemon martini – 9 edits this year, 30 last year
Lanky – Jan 2010
Alex Shih – 2 edits this year, 16 edits last year
4Kinnel – deleted
Guitarmankev1 – May 2013
Portland12 – deleted
AmiDaniel – 2 edits this year, 7 edits last year
No1888 – Aug 2011
Dtobias – 6 edits this year, 20 edits last year
ElinorD – Dec 2008
Isinerathymn – blocked 2010
Mikkalai – sock of Altenmann
Danntm – Nov 2014
Riana dzasta – deleted
Seicer – “semi-retired” 2009
Wwwwolf – 2 edits this year
Ned Scott – 8 edits this year, 30 last year
Coredesat – Dec 2008 (“off I go again and I hope for the last time”)
CastAStone – 2 edits this year, 2 last year
Gurch – Aug 2013
DennyColt – April 2007
Dev 920 – “effectively retired” 2008
Moe Epsilon – 1 edit this year
Netscott – 4 edits Jan this year, none else since 2011
Johnny89 – blocked 2007 by Ryulong (one of his own puppets?)
Picaroon – March 2008
Reinoutre – deleted
Mermaid from the Baltic Sea – June 2007
Vary – 1 edit this year, 1 edit last year

Thank you for the time you took to research and post this. Sometimes a post just jumps out at me because the point was well made and I can tell that it took some time and effort to put it together.

This is one of those posts.

+1

[Ross McPherson]

Guys you are embarrassing me now. It's Saturday here, I got some time to kill and I figured it was my turn to make some of the hard yards. Usually I just walk behind the scrum, pick up the ball when it pops out and go with it. If it help takes some of the shine off WP, I am happy to do it now and then.

[thekohser]

Thank you for the time you took to research and post this. Sometimes a post just jumps out at me because the point was well made and I can tell that it took some time and effort to put it together.

This is one of those posts.

+1

I agree, but dare I say that it shouldn't have been "wasted" as a forum post, but rather unveiled with fanfare as a blog post?

[Wonderer]

I agree, but dare I say that it shouldn't have been "wasted" as a forum post, but rather unveiled with fanfare as a blog post?

Sometimes things need to be sketched out and tried out. I'm not saying this is MLK's Dream speech, but it doesn't hurt to have pre-flighted it in Detroit before taking it to Washington.

[spartaz]

Community = randomly self-selected flashmobs armed with pitchforks and burning brands. (at ANI and AN anyway).

[Ross McPherson]

Erratum: actually there were 56 contributors – I forgot to number the officiating admin, Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington

@Eric
I have a different take on things. I don’t think anyone is killing off the community. It is so badly organized, the community is killing off its members, drawing them into folly, villainy, apathy, hostility, nausea etc. The best there shine like angels yet they end up looking like fools, blind to what is actually happening. The wise among them end up looking like knaves, dealing too cleverly with the shit that comes their way. The dead there look like the living – abandoned user pages are usually as bright and vibrant as they were when the last edit was made, years ago. And the living look like the dead: “Learn not to care”. I mean really – is that any way to live?

History will be the last to decide the scope and nature of “the community”. It could have lasting value as a failed experiment. Sociologists have yet to plug into the riches of its archives. On the other hand, so much oversighting goes on, and so many there are so determined to keep things buried, the community might end up with no value even as a corpse.

I think those are right who say it was always a bubble waiting to burst. It grew quickly to fill a need, giving other encyclopaedic blogs time to grow. The purpose of this here blog is not to save WP, I think, but rather to advise people not to join it, or to get out as soon as they can, because otherwise being a Wikipedian is likely to be a long, nasty ride to nowhere.

Then again, I sometimes get things completely wrong. Because if the world merely obeyed the dictates of common sense, common people would be millionaires.

@Kohser
You are right - now I have used up my curiosity, I don't feel like writing it up as a blog post. That doesn't stop anyone else recycling it.

@Wonderer
You are right too - the arguments evolved through discussion.

[EricBarbour]

Erratum: actually there were 56 contributors – I forgot to number the officiating admin, Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington

Who is one of the most insane admins I've ever seen, AND was a cofounder of Wikimedia India.

@Eric
I have a different take on things. I don’t think anyone is killing off the community. It is so badly organized, the community is killing off its members, drawing them into folly, villainy, apathy, hostility, nausea etc.

Give it another 10 years, then we'll have a better idea. It's still too "new" despite being more than 14 years old.

History will be the last to decide the scope and nature of “the community”. It could have lasting value as a failed experiment. Sociologists have yet to plug into the riches of its archives. On the other hand, so much oversighting goes on, and so many there are so determined to keep things buried, the community might end up with no value even as a corpse.

Thousands of people have downloaded database captures of it, so any good content thereon won't disappear completely. The main issue will always be the people who "run" it. Wretched hive of scum and villainy, or probably more like a videogame that took decades to die out.

[When pigs fly]

Eric Cartman, Wikipedia admin.

[Poetlister]

Give it another 10 years, then we'll have a better idea. It's still too "new" despite being more than 14 years old.

This is the Zhou Enlai approach!

http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?tit ... id=1306866

[Notvelty]

Thank you for the time you took to research and post this. Sometimes a post just jumps out at me because the point was well made and I can tell that it took some time and effort to put it together.

This is one of those posts.

+1

I agree, but dare I say that it shouldn't have been "wasted" as a forum post, but rather unveiled with fanfare as a blog post?

There's some interesting back story to several of those names. Without a doubt, several still "contribute" under other names.
One in particular: Did Tarantino ever solve the Denny Colt question?

[Johnny Au]

The Wikipedia community is a giant broken base between the idealists and the cynics.

[Hex]

Thanks for this info Hex, one of my all time favourite admins (a tiny group).

Aw, thanks Ross. And thanks to you for doing that - Wikipedia's history is a huge mass of information waiting to be mined and I love when people find something that piques their interest enough to do so. In case it helps, here's your list with link tags added. Be careful when thinking that a deleted user page means fading away; not always so. For example QuackGuru is still editing actively.

Admins still active: Anthony Bradbury (T-C-L), Pigman (T-C-L), Cuchullain (T-C-L), MER-C (T-C-L), WJBscribe (T-C-L), AniMate (T-C-L), SlimVirgin (T-C-L), Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington (T-C-L).

Non-admins still active: Shenme (T-C-L) (Wikignome), EveryKing (T-C-L), SmokeyJoe (T-C-L), Meno 25 (T-C-L) (ESL, Egyptian)

The rest:
Vox Rationis (T-C-L) - Nov 2012
QuackGuru (T-C-L) - page deleted
Veesicle (T-C-L) - blocked 2007
Conti (T-C-L) - one edit this year in Feb
Munta (T-C-L) - 3 edits in 2014, 2 in 2013
Pious7 (T-C-L) - July 2007
Uncle G (T-C-L) - 2 edits this years, 7 in 2014
Dennisthe2 (T-C-L) - 2 edits this year, 17 last year
TBC (T-C-L) - Aug 2008
JoshuaZ (T-C-L) - 7 edits this year, 17 edits last year
Sr13 (T-C-L) - Dec 2009
Dhartung (T-C-L) - 9 edits this year
FrozenPurpleCube (T-C-L) - deleted March 2008
Ulysses Zagreb (T-C-L) - June 2007
Lemon martini (T-C-L) - 9 edits this year, 30 last year
Lanky (T-C-L) - Jan 2010
Alex Shih (T-C-L) - 2 edits this year, 16 edits last year
4Kinnel (T-C-L) - deleted
Guitarmankev1 (T-C-L) - May 2013
Portland12 (T-C-L) - deleted
AmiDaniel (T-C-L) - 2 edits this year, 7 edits last year
No1888 (T-C-L) - Aug 2011
Dtobias (T-C-L) - 6 edits this year, 20 edits last year
ElinorD (T-C-L) - Dec 2008
Isinerathymn (T-C-L) - blocked 2010
Mikkalai (T-C-L) - sock of Altenmann
Danntm (T-C-L) - Nov 2014
Riana dzasta (T-C-L) - deleted
Seicer (T-C-L) - “semi-retired” 2009
Wwwwolf (T-C-L) - 2 edits this year
Ned Scott (T-C-L) - 8 edits this year, 30 last year
Coredesat (T-C-L) - Dec 2008 (“off I go again and I hope for the last time”)
CastAStone (T-C-L) - 2 edits this year, 2 last year
Gurch (T-C-L) - Aug 2013
DennyColt (T-C-L) - April 2007
Dev 920 (T-C-L) - “effectively retired” 2008
Moe Epsilon (T-C-L) - 1 edit this year
Netscott (T-C-L) - 4 edits Jan this year, none else since 2011
Johnny89 (T-C-L) - blocked 2007 by Ryulong (one of his own puppets?)
Picaroon (T-C-L) - March 2008
Reinoutre (T-C-L) - deleted
Mermaid from the Baltic Sea (T-C-L) - June 2007
Vary (T-C-L) - 1 edit this year, 1 edit last year

[Ross McPherson]

@Hex

This might be a good time to talk to you about your hair. You should stop hanging from the toes. It gets the blood rushing to the head. Or is hanging upside down an admin thing?

Re Quackguru - yes I was a bit nonplussed about that account. It has been deleted several times and then re-instated.

[Hex]

This might be a good time to talk to you about your hair. You should stop hanging from the toes. It gets the blood rushing to the head. Or is hanging upside down an admin thing?

I can't speak for other admins - or rather admins at all, since I quit - but I always found it quite energizing. The hair, however, is the result of a rare condition. It changes length and color unpredictably several times throughout the year. A tough thing to live with, but I muddle on.

Just clicking around a bit, there are other odd cases. For example "Riana dzasta" was an alternate name/account of Riana (T-C-L), who started fading away in 2013.

[Peryglus]

WP:AN/ANI is comprised almost completely of a self-selecting and non-representative group

I think Giraffedata would have something to say about this...

[greyed.out.fields]

Community (n.) (kəm'ju:nɨti:)
1.

Community = randomly self-selected flashmobs armed with pitchforks and burning brands. (at ANI and AN anyway).

2.
Random grouping of people with nothing really in common with each other, granfaloon. Also as seen at at WP:ANI

The IP insists on using other symbols, not found in the article to which we link and unlikely to be known outside the linguistic community.

There's a "linguistic community"? And I'm part of it? News to me.

[[Edit: no offense meant to the person who wrote that, I just intensely dislike this particular use of the word.]]

[Poetlister]

Aren't they the symbols used in many different dictionaries intended for use by "laymen"?

[greyed.out.fields]

Aren't they the symbols used in many different dictionaries intended for use by "laymen"?

As a member of the not-actually-linguistics-professionals but IPA (T-H-L) understanding community, I find your comment offensive to our not-actually-linguistics-professionals but IPA understanding communitah.

[MMAR]

I definitely agree that the community is not defined as those trying to improve articles. The more convincing definition is indeed the core group of self-serving people who, through venues like ANI, make decisions about who is NOTHERE or who is INCOMPETENT.

I am one such person who they decided was not fit to be part of the community. My crime? I tried to improve an article, and I took umbrage at the way administrator Drmies then treated me like the shit on his shoe, and worse, falsely accused me of adding made up information to Wikipedia, and of adding information that misrepresented a source. When I complained about that to ANI, they not only decided not to hold Drmies to account (because he's a trusted member of the community who they assume can do no wrong), they also expelled me from the community for a month.

And my case is hardly unusual, it's practically the norm. It should be obvious to anyone who regularly reads ANI, as I have for the last few weeks as I wait for my block to expire, that the "community" as it is defined on Wikipedia, has no relation to the set of values and ideals the word evokes in the real world.

It's just one of the many things about Wikipedia which are a disgusting parody of real world concepts, much like this idea they're polite or respectful and strive to conduct themselves with integrity. The people on Wikipedia that do so are the exception, not the norm.

[Vigilant]

At the drama boards, the community is certainly whatever teenaged wannabe street gang that holds sway on that particular corner for that particular week.

[greyed.out.fields]

Aren't they the symbols used in many different dictionaries intended for use by "laymen"?

What you wrote is correct.
You are right.
I was wrong.

And I write this as a member of the, ahem, "recognizing that in the past English language dictionaries generally used their own 'in-house' phonetic re-spelling keys, but now mostly use IPA" community.

Or what-the-airborne-sexual-congress-ever.

[Poetlister]

What you wrote is correct.
You are right.
I was wrong.

Isn't it wonderful to have a WP admin apologising? greyed.out.fields for ArbCom! How do we give barnstars here?

[greyed.out.fields]

What you wrote is correct.
You are right.
I was wrong.

Isn't it wonderful to have a WP admin apologising? greyed.out.fields for ArbCom! How do we give barnstars here?

"Isn't it wonderful to have a WP admin {{citation needed}} apologising?"

Steady on there, old bean.

If this sort of thing keeps up, I may have to punish you with an explanation in lay terms of Luce Irigaray's Speculum de l'autre femme.