Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

We examine the less than successful stories of the Wikimedia Foundation to create and use technology. The poster boy for this forum is Visual Editor.
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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Mancunium » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:56 pm

Class war! Wikipedia's workers revolt again
Bourgeois paper-shufflers have 'suspended democracy', sniff unpaid proles
by Andrew Orlowski, The Register, 18 August 2014 link
Wikipedia's workers are in uproar again, this time about the cash-rich Wikimedia Foundation giving itself "superpowers" to override community decisions. As a consequence of the ruckus, the head of engineering at the Foundation has had his community admin account suspended for a month on the German Wikipedia. It's another example of the fascinating two-caste system at Wikipedia: the workers who put in long hours writing and maintaining the content are paid nothing, while the wealthy administrators at the Foundation devise schemes to spend the cash - to burn through the millions of dollars the charity raises every year. [...] Trouble flared up a year ago when many senior community contributors refused to use a WSYIWYG editor the Foundation had spent several years developing. [...] This ruckus has its root in yet more shoddy software developed by the WMF's engineering team - a Media Viewer. A June survey [link] found that the new Viewer was more popular with readers than editors, but by a popular vote, the German Wikipedia community deemed it not up to snuff, and voted to make its use optional. But this time the Foundation responded by imposing a "Superprotect" right on the German Wikipedia - forcing the community to use the software, whether they wanted to or not. As a consequence of ignoring their wishes, the Foundation's paid software supremo Erik Möller has been put on the naughty step for a month. [...] The Foundation recently hired Lila Treitkov as its executive director, so bringing in a professional with a background in commercial software: Treitkov was an exec at SugarCRM, an open source CRM service company. That's something that MediaWiki and Wikinews dev Möller, a programmer who owes his exalted position to being one of the first Wikipedia contributors in 2001, lacks. There's a write-up here and more discussion and at Treitkov's Talk page here [link].
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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:19 pm

Makes you wonder how much bad press the WMF is prepared to endure.
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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:41 pm

Just saw this
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_ta ... _questions:

Makes strange reading.
I had started with the assumption that she was a seasoned technical executive, but the questions she's asking make her out as a neophyte manager.
Had she asked anyone outside of the WMF headquarters any questions at all prior to this debacle, she'd know half the answers.
If she'd read the pages and pages written about the VE blunder, none of this would be even slightly unknown.

So very sad that I wrote a haiku about it:

Expectations lost
The dream becomes a nightmare
Broken unicorn
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Kiefer.Wolfowitz » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:14 pm

Vigilant wrote:So very sad that I wrote a haiku about it:

Expectations lost
Dreams give way to despair.
Broken unicorn
Fixed the second line for you.

Icelandic and Skeltonic friends, consider "dreams devolve to despair".
Despair (DC Comics) (T-H-L)
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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Poetlister » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:28 am

Jim wrote:Hmmm. Shouldn't xeno have clarified that, with the ARBCOM case, this would obviously be regarded as "under a cloud", (even if just for "shits and giggles" value)? Obviously it makes no practical difference to Erik at all.
I don't think the "under a cloud" rule applies to WMF staff, not in practice.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Jim » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:03 pm

Vigilant wrote:So very sad that I wrote a haiku about it:

Expectations lost
The dream becomes a nightmare
Broken unicorn
Must be poetry week. I missed the memo.

From the Arbcom "workshop" talk page:
Mr 2601 wrote:I had a dream this case would be
So different from this hell we're living
So different now from what it seemed
Now Erik has killed the dream I dreamed


2601:7:1980:BF6:7440:4B16:768B:EE69 (talk) 20:10, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Yours here is far better. :B' :peeking:

I'm not much good at this poetry thing, so, in the best wikipedia tradition, I'll just plagiarise:
Mr Baldrick wrote:Hear the words I sing,
War's a horrid thing,
So I sing sing sing...
...ding-a-ling-a-ling.
which I believe was his follow up to the classic: "The German Guns" (boom, boom, boom, boom,) mentioned somewhere earlier.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Vigilant » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:07 pm

Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:26 pm

Vigilant wrote:Mo:eller chokes on his own vomit.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/w ... 74009.html
Hmmmm. Emphasis added:
I am -- genuinely -- sorry that this escalation occurred. We would
have preferred to avoid it.

I would like to recap how we find ourselves in this situation: As
early as July, we stated that the Wikimedia Foundation reserves the
right to determine the final configuration of the MediaViewer feature,
and we explicitly included MediaWiki: namespace hacks in that
statement.
Following the self help e-book's advice on how to apologize (start every statement with "I"), but then switches to "we".

I guess the question is whether it's just a royal we or if he actually listens to the opinions of his underpaid and underskilled minions.
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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Vigilant » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:44 pm

SB_Johnny wrote:
Vigilant wrote:Mo:eller chokes on his own vomit.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/w ... 74009.html
Hmmmm. Emphasis added:
I am -- genuinely -- sorry that this escalation occurred. We would
have preferred to avoid it.

I would like to recap how we find ourselves in this situation: As
early as July, we stated that the Wikimedia Foundation reserves the
right to determine the final configuration of the MediaViewer feature,
and we explicitly included MediaWiki: namespace hacks in that
statement.
Following the self help e-book's advice on how to apologize (start every statement with "I"), but then switches to "we".

I guess the question is whether it's just a royal we or if he actually listens to the opinions of his underpaid and underskilled minions.
Or Lila has him by the lapels and is banging his pointy little head against the wall for needlessly complicating her job. Again.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:17 pm

Vigilant wrote:
SB_Johnny wrote:
Vigilant wrote:Mo:eller chokes on his own vomit.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/w ... 74009.html
Hmmmm. Emphasis added:
I am -- genuinely -- sorry that this escalation occurred. We would
have preferred to avoid it.

I would like to recap how we find ourselves in this situation: As
early as July, we stated that the Wikimedia Foundation reserves the
right to determine the final configuration of the MediaViewer feature,
and we explicitly included MediaWiki: namespace hacks in that
statement.
Following the self help e-book's advice on how to apologize (start every statement with "I"), but then switches to "we".

I guess the question is whether it's just a royal we or if he actually listens to the opinions of his underpaid and underskilled minions.
Or Lila has him by the lapels and is banging his pointy little head against the wall for needlessly complicating her job. Again.
I thought she was on vacation. Is she on vacation with Erik? :hmmm:
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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by EricBarbour » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:29 pm

SB_Johnny wrote:I thought she was on vacation. Is she on vacation with Erik? :hmmm:
That would be the next logical step. If you'd like to tell Wil about Erik's relations with the previous Director, feel free. ;)

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Mason » Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:43 pm

SB_Johnny wrote:Following the self help e-book's advice on how to apologize (start every statement with "I"), but then switches to "we".

I guess the question is whether it's just a royal we or if he actually listens to the opinions of his underpaid and underskilled minions.
Also interesting is use of the passive voice:
I am -- genuinely -- sorry that this escalation occurred. We would
have preferred to avoid it.

I would like to recap how we find ourselves in this situation
Mistakes were made (T-H-L), I suppose.

It amuses me that when the WMF deploys something that doesn't quite work right, it's a "feature", and when the "feature" is disabled, that's a "hack":
As early as July, we stated that the Wikimedia Foundation reserves the
right to determine the final configuration of the MediaViewer feature,
and we explicitly included MediaWiki: namespace hacks in that
statement.
Not to say that the JavaScript isn't a hack, just that it's amusing that the term is mainly applied to the things the plebs do.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Kelly Martin » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:43 am

Anthonyhcole wrote:She is technically literate. I've read most of the linked discussions.
This is not a matter of technical literacy, it's a matter of change process management. In this area, pretty much all we've heard from her is vacuous boardroom babble. Also note that during her tenure at Sugar, she oversaw a change of direction that may have improved the product's position in the market but proved unpopular with community of users then using it; in short, she rammed through a major change in the company's main project over the objections of much of its user community. Sound familiar?

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by The Adversary » Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:51 am

The community leads in the development of content; the Wikimedia Foundation leads in the development of technology.
It sums it up: the WMF is effectively washing its hands off the content.
While it wants to become a "world-class" technology company.

(How you create that by employing a lot of out-of work or under-employed college students/drop-outs (also called "Wikipedians") is beyond me. However it ties nicely with the latest blog here, How Your Donations May Be Destroying Wikipedia.)

Now, what does the general public think of Wikipedia: is it a "technology" site, or an information site? Do you go there mainly to be entertained (think: instagram), or to be informed (think :high-brow newspapers, old EB)

If Wikipedia ever will get a "trust-factor" coming anywhere close to the EB (you know, the numbers so conveniently removed when they presented this), then it has to address that content issue/content creation issue head on.

That will not happen within the next few years, perhaps ever.
Presently, it is not even on the radar.
Mason wrote: Not to say that the JavaScript isn't a hack, just that it's amusing that the term is mainly applied to the things the plebs do.
Welcome to corporate speech.
Another one:
positive feed-back = "feed-back".
negative feed-back = whining.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by eagle » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:02 pm

Aside from the passive voice and the I/we shift, Moeller's posting is poor communication. Could someone please give me the bottom line? Is it WMF will reengineer our process over the next 90 days, and during that time you have to live with our user interface, but we will unprotect the javascript page as a display of good faith (with a promise not to edit it?)

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Kumioko » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:43 pm

eagle wrote:Aside from the passive voice and the I/we shift, Moeller's posting is poor communication. Could someone please give me the bottom line? Is it WMF will reengineer our process over the next 90 days, and during that time you have to live with our user interface, but we will unprotect the javascript page as a display of good faith (with a promise not to edit it?)
I think thats part right, but given the WMF's track record of saying one thing and doing another I wouldn't expect them to keep their word at this point anyway. How many times has the WMF said we'll work with the community next time? Then next time rolls around and they just do what they want anyway.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:12 pm


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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:42 pm

HRIP7 wrote:After two days and a bit, the German community survey stands at 485 vs. 70 votes in favour of removing superprotection.

The survey is due to remain open for another five days.
Currently 614 vs. 97.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:07 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:After two days and a bit, the German community survey stands at 485 vs. 70 votes in favour of removing superprotection.

The survey is due to remain open for another five days.
Currently 614 vs. 97.
May I channel Risker (T-C-L)?

"Oh, but think of all the millions and millions of German readers that are going to be deprived of the cutting edge software expertise of the hardworking team at WMF! A small sample of pesky volunteers are no match for the multimass millions of our loyal readers, who expect technological innovations to be made expeditiously, rather than sabotaged by a small band of ill-informed and self-important Luddites..." (CV available on request, phone me!!!)

RfB

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:09 pm

What was the "vote" on JImmy Wales' SOPA blackout request, by the way? That should be the target number of the German opposition...

RfB

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Thracia » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:39 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:What was the "vote" on JImmy Wales' SOPA blackout request, by the way? That should be the target number of the German opposition...

RfB
This one?
The Daily Telegraph wrote:Wales said the decision to either enforce a US-only blackout versus a global blackout had been made as a result of a close vote of the Wikipedia community.

He told The Telegraph: “The community vote on the choice of US-only blackout versus global blackout was 479 to 591 in favour of going global, so while there was a solid majority, it wasn't the overwhelming majority that we had for the whole concept. It seems to have been somewhat of a tough choice for many people.”
From this Daily Telegraph article

If so, the vote in all its full horror seems to be here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA_initiative

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Mason » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:42 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:After two days and a bit, the German community survey stands at 485 vs. 70 votes in favour of removing superprotection.

The survey is due to remain open for another five days.
Currently 614 vs. 97.
614 is getting close to the number of support votes the "community elected" WMF board members received in the most recent trustee election.

If the Germans are serious about this issue, they could very well take one or more of those seats next time around.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Mason » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:55 pm

And speaking of the community-elected board members, I haven't seen what Sam and María have had to say about the Superprotect business (if anything), but it appears Phoebe is fully on board Team Erik:
Phoebe Ayers wrote:Yes, I am aware of the discussion. The board was informed by Erik of the actions taken, and additionally I have been reading the mailing lists (wikimedia-l and wikitech-l); I also read the Kurier discussion (via Google translate, which is not perfect, but I can't read much German so it will have to do).

There are two issues -- whether to adopt the mediaviewer and the superprotection level. [...] I have two perspectives on the issue, first as a trustee of the Wikimedia Foundation, which is responsible for maintaining the infrastructure and software of 800+ wikis with a combined active editor base of 80,000 and a readership of half a billion; and second, as a long-time editor myself of multiple projects.

From both perspectives, I understand and support the decision our team has taken. [...]

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Poetlister » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:12 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:"Oh, but think of all the millions and millions of German readers that are going to be deprived of the cutting edge software expertise of the hardworking team at WMF! A small sample of pesky volunteers are no match for the multimass millions of our loyal readers, who expect technological innovations to be made expeditiously, rather than sabotaged by a small band of ill-informed and self-important Luddites..."
Wasn't that more or less Richard Nixon and the silent majority?
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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Vigilant » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:17 am

Poetlister wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:"Oh, but think of all the millions and millions of German readers that are going to be deprived of the cutting edge software expertise of the hardworking team at WMF! A small sample of pesky volunteers are no match for the multimass millions of our loyal readers, who expect technological innovations to be made expeditiously, rather than sabotaged by a small band of ill-informed and self-important Luddites..."
Wasn't that more or less Richard Nixon and the silent majority?
Waiting for someone, James Forrester, to call out the Germans as nattering nabobs of negativism.
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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Vigilant » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:26 am

Ho! Ho! HO!
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_ta ... Foundation

TL;DR suck it bitches, we do what we want.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:29 am

Mason wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:After two days and a bit, the German community survey stands at 485 vs. 70 votes in favour of removing superprotection.

The survey is due to remain open for another five days.
Currently 614 vs. 97.
614 is getting close to the number of support votes the "community elected" WMF board members received in the most recent trustee election.

If the Germans are serious about this issue, they could very well take one or more of those seats next time around.
763-104 was the margin of Jimmy Wales' massive, resounding community consensus for a full global blackout of En-WP over SOPA that allowed him to blow his trumpet on the national stage. Bear in mind that En-WP is about 3 times bigger than De-WP in terms of participation levels...

Our German friends are at 633-100 at this moment.

Hey, Erik Möller — have you figured out that you fucked up yet???

RfB

P.S. In June 2014 there were exactly 843 Very Active Editors on De-WP ( link ).

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Mason » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:38 am

Vigilant wrote:Waiting for someone, James Forrester, to call out the Germans as nattering nabobs of negativism.
Jan-Bart de Vreede wrote:On Wikimedia-l and in some other places I hear a lot from the few and the angry.
Close enough for government work, no?

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Mason » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:41 am

Jan-Bart de Vreede wrote:We want to attract new editors. They don’t have to become heavy editors, they could even contribute once in a while, as long as we get lots of them.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Mason » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:45 am

I see Jan-Bart de Vreede (T-H-L) is currently up for deletion.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:46 am

Jan-Bart de Vreede has weighed in on Lila Tretikov's talk page and ignited another storm of frustration and criticism.
Hi Everyone

This note reflects my personal opinion and might not represent the view of the entire board :)
I am a volunteer. I volunteer for something incredibly special, something that 30 years from now people will either say “That was quite something, whatever happened?” or they will say “I cannot believe it started in such a simple way, and has grown to become a worldwide resource, free for everyone."

Truth is, we are at a crossroads, and unfortunately have been for quite some time. Blaming each other for being there does not make much sense, as it would probably result in us spending more time at that crossroads. If you want me to take part of the blame, I will.

Other internet projects (not limiting ourselves to websites) are passing us by left and right, and none of them have the non-profit goals that we have. In fact, some of them, with more commercial propositions, are actively undermining us.

When we started our search for a new Executive Director, we set out to find someone with a strong executive product background and solid hands-on experience. After years of building up the organization from scratch, Sue made it clear that we needed an expertise different from her own in order to take us all to the next level.

We found Lila, and she is exactly what we need: someone to look at our special thing with a different view. We are unique in many ways, but not unique enough to ignore basic trends and global developments in how people use the internet and seek knowledge. We have to get better at software development, roll-out, and user adoption. And Lila is helping us do exactly that. (a discussion on process ideas has been started here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communi ... cess_ideas )

But at the same time, change works both ways. There is no point in getting better at the development of software if the roll-out of these new features is going to be partial.

We talk often about “the community” (although in reality we have a lot of different communities, with different characteristics). One thing is clear to me: we need to grow that community - not just in numbers, but also in maturity in welcoming newcomers, accepting change (sometimes for the sake of others), dealing with non-productive discussions, and quickly scaling successful new initiatives.

On Wikimedia-l and in some other places I hear a lot from the few and the angry. There is an argument I hear a lot: “We are the community, without us the projects would be nothing. We are the ones who got us here.” That is true, to a degree. But at the same time… we don’t want to be here…. We want to be much further along the road.

We want to attract new editors. They don’t have to become heavy editors, they could even contribute once in a while, as long as we get lots of them. We have to make it easy enough for anyone to contribute so that people once again feel that “anyone can edit.”

We want to have our information everywhere. Not just on your browser, or integrated in your operating system and phone (as they are now), but everywhere. While 500 million readers a month may sound like a lot, it’s a fraction of whom we need to reach.

We need to move faster than ever before. This means we need to be tolerant of things we may not like and let experimentation happen. We also need to remove things we are attached to that don’t have wide adoption.

We need to act as one community, not 1,000. This means we cannot enact the wishes of a few hundred, but have to build processes that support the successes of millions.

All of this is going to require change, change that might not be acceptable to some of you. I hope that all of you will be a part of this next step in our evolution. But I understand that if you decide to take a wiki-break, that might be the way things have to be. Even so, you have to let the Foundation do its work and allow us all to take that next step when needed. I can only hope that your break is temporary, and that you will return when the time is right.

There is one thing will never change, and that is our commitment to providing free knowledge to everyone in the world. And while software development is a part of this, we have a lot of areas in which we also need to make progress -- and these are the areas where we look to you to take the lead. I am looking forward to working with you, the individual volunteers, and all our movement organizations in order to grow our successes.

Jan-Bart de Vreede
Jan-Bart (talk) 15:27, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
From the ensuing discussion it becomes clear that one thing the board are worried about is Wikiwand.

If you look at Wikiwand's display of the Jupiter article, you can sort of understand why. And guess what: Wikiwand has a Media Viewer that looks suspiciously like the Foundation's own version.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:13 am

HRIP7 wrote:Jan-Bart de Vreede has weighed in on Lila Tretikov's talk page and ignited another storm of frustration and criticism.
Hi Everyone

This note reflects my personal opinion and might not represent the view of the entire board :)
I am a volunteer. I volunteer for something incredibly special, something that 30 years from now people will either say “That was quite something, whatever happened?” or they will say “I cannot believe it started in such a simple way, and has grown to become a worldwide resource, free for everyone."

Truth is, we are at a crossroads, and unfortunately have been for quite some time. Blaming each other for being there does not make much sense, as it would probably result in us spending more time at that crossroads. If you want me to take part of the blame, I will.

Other internet projects (not limiting ourselves to websites) are passing us by left and right, and none of them have the non-profit goals that we have. In fact, some of them, with more commercial propositions, are actively undermining us.

When we started our search for a new Executive Director, we set out to find someone with a strong executive product background and solid hands-on experience. After years of building up the organization from scratch, Sue made it clear that we needed an expertise different from her own in order to take us all to the next level.

We found Lila, and she is exactly what we need: someone to look at our special thing with a different view. We are unique in many ways, but not unique enough to ignore basic trends and global developments in how people use the internet and seek knowledge. We have to get better at software development, roll-out, and user adoption. And Lila is helping us do exactly that. (a discussion on process ideas has been started here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communi ... cess_ideas )

But at the same time, change works both ways. There is no point in getting better at the development of software if the roll-out of these new features is going to be partial.

We talk often about “the community” (although in reality we have a lot of different communities, with different characteristics). One thing is clear to me: we need to grow that community - not just in numbers, but also in maturity in welcoming newcomers, accepting change (sometimes for the sake of others), dealing with non-productive discussions, and quickly scaling successful new initiatives.

On Wikimedia-l and in some other places I hear a lot from the few and the angry. There is an argument I hear a lot: “We are the community, without us the projects would be nothing. We are the ones who got us here.” That is true, to a degree. But at the same time… we don’t want to be here…. We want to be much further along the road.

We want to attract new editors. They don’t have to become heavy editors, they could even contribute once in a while, as long as we get lots of them. We have to make it easy enough for anyone to contribute so that people once again feel that “anyone can edit.”

We want to have our information everywhere. Not just on your browser, or integrated in your operating system and phone (as they are now), but everywhere. While 500 million readers a month may sound like a lot, it’s a fraction of whom we need to reach.

We need to move faster than ever before. This means we need to be tolerant of things we may not like and let experimentation happen. We also need to remove things we are attached to that don’t have wide adoption.

We need to act as one community, not 1,000. This means we cannot enact the wishes of a few hundred, but have to build processes that support the successes of millions.

All of this is going to require change, change that might not be acceptable to some of you. I hope that all of you will be a part of this next step in our evolution. But I understand that if you decide to take a wiki-break, that might be the way things have to be. Even so, you have to let the Foundation do its work and allow us all to take that next step when needed. I can only hope that your break is temporary, and that you will return when the time is right.

There is one thing will never change, and that is our commitment to providing free knowledge to everyone in the world. And while software development is a part of this, we have a lot of areas in which we also need to make progress -- and these are the areas where we look to you to take the lead. I am looking forward to working with you, the individual volunteers, and all our movement organizations in order to grow our successes.

Jan-Bart de Vreede
Jan-Bart (talk) 15:27, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
From the ensuing discussion it becomes clear that one thing the board are worried about is Wikiwand.

If you look at Wikiwand's display of the Jupiter article, you can sort of understand why. And guess what: Wikiwand has a Media Viewer that looks suspiciously like the Foundation's own version.
For a bunch of politicians, de Vreede, Tretikov, Möller, and the lot sure are terrible at politics...

Give Sue Gardner her due — at least she isn't tone deaf...

RfB

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by EricBarbour » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:30 am

I wonder if this is how an all-out website civil war starts.

Also, "superprotection" is producing coverage in the German press. Meaning it's getting the wrong kind of attention.
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/ ... 93513.html
http://www.golem.de/news/superschutz-wi ... 08522.html

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:14 am

EricBarbour wrote:I wonder if this is how an all-out website civil war starts.

Also, "superprotection" is producing coverage in the German press. Meaning it's getting the wrong kind of attention.
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/ ... 93513.html
http://www.golem.de/news/superschutz-wi ... 08522.html
The thing is, I think the Foundation are correct to be afraid of the likes of Wikiwand. What they have signally lacked so far is the ability to create anything of comparable quality.

Of course, Wikiwand has it a little easier here. Their tiny Edit link, right at the bottom of the article, leads back to Wikipedia, in all its wiki markup glory.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Neotarf » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:15 am

Some observations, in no particular order:
EricBarbour wrote:...Also, "superprotection" is producing coverage in the German press.
Not only German. Check the Signpost piece.


Also, from Lila Tretikov's talk page:
250,000,000+ were on the platform at the time of the roll-out with NPS in 60-70% at that time

NPS? Platform? I'm usually pretty good at wading through densely-written material, but what is this? I'm getting a mental image of a Harry Potter-type train station.

Back at the Wikimedia-I mailing list, more opaque language:
...the UI changes...local hack...JS hack...platform-level improvements
I'm assuming this is insider talk, and not a snow job, and that some point is being made, but whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be directed at the general editing public.

The above Wikimedia-I mailing list link is also the source for Möller's statement that
When DaB. removed the link to Beta Features on de.wp in November, calling it "clutter", we ignored it and hoped that another sensible admin would step in and restore it, because we didn't want to trigger precisely this kind of conflict over minutiae. (It was only restored a couple of days ago.)
This appears to refer to the "beta features" option that signed-in users see at the top of the page, for testing new products. So apparently some edit was made that kept the MV from being tested in beta *before* being introduced as the default. How was this allowed to happen, that no line in the sand was drawn WRT modifications that prevented testing the product, but only with the introduction of the untested product? Something is missing from all of these explanations. What, exactly IS the approval process?

Finally, this proposal, for the board to establish a Technology Committee to oversee the various proposals didn't go very far, (and there is supposed to be a parallel proposal in the English WP's current ArbCom media viewer case) but it begins to address some of the issues of process and stakeholders. There was a time when a corporation's new hardware products would have to be signed off by all the departments during the development process--and you could see the signatures at the bottom of the various specs and schematics--so that manufacturing wouldn't get caught out by some engineering process they didn't have the capability for, or some problem with vendors, etc. I'm not sure if the board is the right entity for this--some comments elsewhere indicate that some board members at least might consider their role more appropriate to a long-term view than a more hands-on approach--but it's clear that a small number of people need to do some initial planning here, that the core planning group needs to be more representative of the movement as a whole, and that the approval process needs to be spelled out.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:53 am

Neotarf wrote:Also, from Lila Tretikov's talk page:
250,000,000+ were on the platform at the time of the roll-out with NPS in 60-70% at that time

NPS? Platform? I'm usually pretty good at wading through densely-written material, but what is this? I'm getting a mental image of a Harry Potter-type train station.
It's interesting that she would use that terminology with people she (I hope) knows either don't recognize it or don't appreciate it, but "NPS" means "no problems," so she's basically saying that over 250M users were accessing one or more of the WMF's Mediawiki installations at some point during the rollout period, and 60-70 percent of them had no problems with MediaViewer. Under the circumstances I would think they'd want to shoot for at least 90 percent, but this is the WMF we're talking about, so...
...apparently some edit was made that kept the MV from being tested in beta *before* being introduced as the default. How was this allowed to happen, that no line in the sand was drawn WRT modifications that prevented testing the product, but only with the introduction of the untested product? Something is missing from all of these explanations. What, exactly IS the approval process?
IMO their process is flawed because most people who sign up for the "beta program" probably just take it on faith that there's a legitimate reason for whatever the Foundation's developers are doing. They're looking for bugs, they're not being asked to justify the existence of the feature itself. So, they roll it out thinking everything is fine, "everyone will love it," and instead they get push-back, which to them is just another form of "narcissistic wounding," hence the nasty, defensive reactions, leading to the spiral-down, hostility-escalation, etc., etc.
...I'm not sure if the board is the right entity for this--some comments elsewhere indicate that some board members at least might consider their role more appropriate to a long-term view than a more hands-on approach--but it's clear that a small number of people need to do some initial planning here, that the core planning group needs to be more representative of the movement as a whole, and that the approval process needs to be spelled out.
Remember, all of their efforts are directed towards increasing user-count, as defined by them. I'm sure there was plenty of planning, by the Board and everybody else, but evidently it was mostly based on unfounded, misleading, or outright-false premises. They've convinced themselves that to grow the user base they have to improve their diversity, and especially bring in more women; they're probably right about that, but their means of doing it - making the software "easier" and "more social," or more like Facebook or Tumblr or Instagram - is both dubious in concept and piss-poor in execution. I might even go so far as to say it's insulting to the very people they're trying to attract.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:34 am

From Lila Tretikov's talk page:
So the Foundation fears that readers will flock to WikiWand (note their Media Viewer) and other providers like that which piggy-back on Wikipedia with a better-looking reader interface, and Wikipedia.org will lose its top-10 Alexa ranking. This seems to be what all of this is about. Andreas JN466 10:11, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Leaving out that there is much more to it that "all of this is about" (a general vision that goes against basic principles for relationships between WMF and its former community), you are absolutely right. I commented on this aspect e.g. on Requests_for_comment/On_a_scale_of_billions#A_few_comments_and_additions_by_ca.24e: "You should realize that very many (myself e.g. included, in cases where i really only want to read - in every other case, i, like Kww, curse the mobile version and switch to the desktop view!) often read WP by other means: For mobile phone and tablet users, there are apps that provide a very convenient layout (one popular example for deWP would be http://dasreferenz.com/), or web services (like e.g. http://www.wikiwand.com), or readers such as getpocket.com for longer articles. I also find the idea mistaken to invest larger resources in developing an environment to edit WP from phones or tablets. The time has long passed that we would have profited from stubs of, say, the length of a twitter post. We also do not at all need millions of useless pictures, and especially not without proper licensing. What we need, at the moment and in the coming future, are more well-versed experts on topics where WP still severely lacks in article quality. For these topics, we need profoundly worked-out articles which people will, probably for several years to come, not write on their phone or tablet, but on their desktop."

Now, i, as most other contributors, have no problem at all with wikiwand, other apps etc. They after all enable readers to read the contributions of my fellow colleagues in a more convenient way than anything WMF ever came up with. The distribution of quality content for as many readers as possible was our goal from the start, after all! Why does WMF have a problem with it? This connects with what i cited there by H-stt: "The unlimited money supply from the fundraising campaigns shows the tremendous enthusiasm of our readers, but it has seduced people into hiring staff without first agreeing on goals and methods. This excessive staff and bureaucracy then very quickly became estranged from its base, the community, and is now fighting for self-preservation." When people read WP content with convenient tools such as dasReferenz, WikiWand etc, less people will see WMF's campaigns for funding. What they are thus trying to do, and failing miserably, is copying parts of what WikiWand etc do. However, with WMF's development work being as desastrous as it is, and its stance to stubbornly ignore large amounts of community input, we have more often than not now seen what results this brings. In the process of this ignorant self-preservation-attempts (here again applies H-stt's comment), WMF has come to the stance that those former communities will just have to accept broken software being stoved down their throats (or may simply leave). Thereby, WMF naturally alienates itself from its former communities. This will lead exactly towards what WMF fears. For why should we, who make up all the difference to mere content consumption, have anymore any interest in supporting a business that does not support but alienate us? WMF seemingly also has realized that by ignoring former communities, they will need new communities. So, they decided to focus on people who have no ideas at all about content quality control - people like many twitter/facebook users. We have seen where this will lead to, check [7] for example. Who will filter such pseudocontributions? We? Why should we anymore? Ca$e (talk) 10:47, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Link [7] is this Bugzilla bug:
Too much Copyright violations via Mobile... See...

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... n_requests

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... _EXIF_data

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... ye_matches

Mobile Upload related:
"1,156 open deletion requests"
"4268 closed (as deleted) deletion requests"
"And a lot of speedy deletion requests... (See: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Comm ... ng/archive (1, 2, ...)"


Please set up a filter.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Neotarf » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:31 pm

A curious forum thread.
...maybe a game with a series of missions where the player must build consensus to complete the mission. After several successful missions, there's a new mission where upon successfully creating the coalition, some external power steps in and undoes all the work... chaos ensues and the player must come up with a new mechanism to complete the mission.
And, what is Möller's motivation wanting it on?...

Möller wants it on to make the board happy "hey look, I got this done" and make donors happy(look at all the work we've done, now can we have some money?
I'm saying the extra money they'll get from saying "hey look, we made mediaviewer, now give us money" rather than just "give us money" is less than the money they spent on developing MediaViewer. By far.
I can't tell if this is satire.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Neotarf » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:03 pm

Superprotect cartoons here and here:

Image

Image

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Vigilant » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:08 pm

Neotarf wrote:Image
Please.
None of them are obese.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Vigilant » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:59 pm

What de.wp should do is organize a strike.
Seriously.

Site banners for every page: Do not edit until the WMF removes superprotect.
Chat all the editors in an online variant of a phone tree.

Roll back recent edits.
The WMF is going in the wrong direction so we're rolling back the encyclopedia to match.

If the de.wp went dark/stale, it would be impossible to keep this out of the mainstream press ... and there is nothing that the WMF hates worse than sunlight.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Thracia » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:09 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Neotarf wrote:Image
Please.
None of them are obese.
Plus that wall looks much too authentically wall-like to be a WMF creation. Needs gaping holes and sections made of snowflakes.

And working to a written plan? Agile scrum don't need no stinkin' plans!

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:09 pm

Speaking as a (for the time being) frustrated trade union organizer for the benefit of the little birds who lurk here...

WMF might think they have all the power because the paid staff runs the servers, but they can't starve out the volunteers by "firing" them and leaving them to the tender mercies of the marketplace. We, by way of contrast, CAN starve them out, since they're in the process of swelling the paid bureaucracy and other spending to about 110% of last year's income. They are very, very vulnerable to an orchestrated media attack over their bullying during their fundraising blitz.

They've got a year's worth of money in the bank, so it's not like an extremely effective campaign would be a crushing blow — but the terror and panic of financial oblivion isn't part of the life of the proles, it's part of the life of the bureaucrats...

Comrade Randy

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Vigilant » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:13 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:Speaking as a (for the time being) frustrated trade union organizer for the benefit of the little birds who lurk here...

WMF might think they have all the power because the paid staff runs the servers, but they can't starve out the volunteers by "firing" them and leaving them to the tender mercies of the marketplace. We, by way of contrast, CAN starve them out, since they're in the process of swelling the paid bureaucracy and other spending to about 110% of last year's income. They are very, very vulnerable to an orchestrated media attack over their bullying during their fundraising blitz.

They've got a year's worth of money in the bank, so it's not like an extremely effective campaign would be a crushing blow — but the terror and panic of financial oblivion isn't part of the life of the proles, it's part of the life of the bureaucrats...

Comrade Randy
It's now or never, Tim.

Either the WMF and the editors are partners or the WMF gets to push through superprotect and you guys are forever their collective bitches.

Choose.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:13 pm

Vigilant wrote:What de.wp should do is organize a strike.
Seriously.

Site banners for every page: Do not edit until the WMF removes superprotect.
Chat all the editors in an online variant of a phone tree.

Roll back recent edits.
The WMF is going in the wrong direction so we're rolling back the encyclopedia to match.

If the de.wp went dark/stale, it would be impossible to keep this out of the mainstream press ... and there is nothing that the WMF hates worse than sunlight.
100% correct, Vigilant.

An effective German action would give En-WP volunteers enormous leverage.


RfB

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:16 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:Speaking as a (for the time being) frustrated trade union organizer for the benefit of the little birds who lurk here...

WMF might think they have all the power because the paid staff runs the servers, but they can't starve out the volunteers by "firing" them and leaving them to the tender mercies of the marketplace. We, by way of contrast, CAN starve them out, since they're in the process of swelling the paid bureaucracy and other spending to about 110% of last year's income. They are very, very vulnerable to an orchestrated media attack over their bullying during their fundraising blitz.

They've got a year's worth of money in the bank, so it's not like an extremely effective campaign would be a crushing blow — but the terror and panic of financial oblivion isn't part of the life of the proles, it's part of the life of the bureaucrats...

Comrade Randy
It's now or never, Tim.

Either the WMF and the editors are partners or the WMF gets to push through superprotect and you guys are forever their collective bitches.

Choose.
I am very happy that this is happening now rather than following the unilateral imposition of Flow, which is not going to be reversible.

Yes, I agree that this is the moment. I'm a little annoyed that I wasn't able to get a parallel site to WPO off the ground. So it goes...

Our German friends carry the ball now...

RfB

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by eppur si muove » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:58 pm

When is the next board election? If the lapdogs got voted off in favour of some troublemakers, it might also cause some panic.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Mason » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:01 pm

eppur si muove wrote:When is the next board election? If the lapdogs got voted off in favour of some troublemakers, it might also cause some panic.
June 2015, I believe.

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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Vigilant » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:42 pm

Mason wrote:
eppur si muove wrote:When is the next board election? If the lapdogs got voted off in favour of some troublemakers, it might also cause some panic.
June 2015, I believe.
Convenient that the WMF decided to start this ruckus right _after_ the previous board elections...
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Re: Is it a bird, is it a plane? No, it's Superprotect

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:56 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Mason wrote:
eppur si muove wrote:When is the next board election? If the lapdogs got voted off in favour of some troublemakers, it might also cause some panic.
June 2015, I believe.
Convenient that the WMF decided to start this ruckus right _after_ the previous board elections...
You are presuming they have political foresight. Rather this is an ad hoc circus being driven by their (inept) software release process.

RfB

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