Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
kołdry
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:13 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:
This place is not "Son of AN/I".
But of course it is...

RfB
:)

Well, I have never seen that as its purpose. Nor, for that matter, do I recall you ever using it in that manner.

I have generally little interest in "someone done me wrong at AN/I" stories per se. Unless such a story says something particularly cogent about Wikipedia culture, what really matters is, How does this affect readers of Wikipedia, the general public, or the people written about in Wikipedia?
Kumioko's story is the perfect example of the gangbans inflicted by WP:AN/ANI's sick and policy-free "vote him or her off the island" popularity contests. Except for the checkable fact that he was reported to WP:AN/ANI for criticizing administrators (which was never actually brought up in the discussion it occasioned) nobody agreed on anything he actually did. It was a bunch of tiny-hearted, low, administrative jerks sayingg how much they didn't like him. So I say Hrip7 it's precisely cogent about Wikipedia culture.
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:24 pm

Randy from Boise wrote: I'll repeat again (and you can watch his actions over the next year to confirm this): Dennis Brown is one of the "good guys." He knows there are problems and does his best within the system to ameliorate them. He is a voice of reason. He has a good eye for admin candidates who are trustworthy. He is NOT one of the bad actors and it was insulting and wrong for him to be lumped with certain people above.
What?! It's a matter of record and viewable at the hyperlinks presented that the six I named acted in tandem with Dennis and following his lead to push around Nazariy and set him or her up for the block. They all made spurious policy references, and it was Dennis himself that threatened to "drag [Nazariy] to ANI." We've seen this story many times: ambush the newish editor with the usual policy references, set him or her up at WP:AN/ANI, and then when he or she starts to freak out a bit under the mass abuse, administer the coup de grace. Equals SCORE! for those lowlifes.

This time you say it was insulting and wrong to lump Dennis in there, last time you said I "dishonestly framed" the question, but let me advise you now Randy. If you are going to suggest I'm dishonest, you better do a lot better than saying Nazariy is the real bully, troll, and sock, because look, he or she clicked the "undo" button on his or her seventh edit, plus he or she edited POLITICIANS! I called it like I saw it all the way through, gave hyperlinks and a damn sight better explanation than anything you said.
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by HRIP7 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:16 pm

Kumioko wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:I have generally little interest in "someone done me wrong at AN/I" stories per se. Unless such a story says something particularly cogent about Wikipedia culture, what really matters is, How does this affect readers of Wikipedia, the general public, or the people written about in Wikipedia?
Wel for what its worth what happened to me is absolutely a direct result of the degredation of the Wikipedia culture by POV pushers and corruption. If a few miscreants and abusive editors/admins have the ability of launching a lonterm editor off the site, then imagine how many new editors they push away that do not have the contribution history.
That may be so, but in my experience such individual stories are of little interest to insiders, who have all heard such complaints before (including from people who quite clearly shared some responsibility for their own banning), and of no interest at all to outsiders, especially when framed in highly emotional terms by the banned person himself.

The internet is full of people complaining indignantly about the injustice of their being banned from some website. Nobody cares. If this site wants to be effective, it has to raise issues that outsiders will care about.

Wikipedia has kangaroo courts. That is a systemic issue worth looking at, and explaining. That you were banned isn't. It's at best a symptom of the malaise, and one of many such cases.

enwikibadscience
Habitué
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:43 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
Kumioko wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:I have generally little interest in "someone done me wrong at AN/I" stories per se. Unless such a story says something particularly cogent about Wikipedia culture, what really matters is, How does this affect readers of Wikipedia, the general public, or the people written about in Wikipedia?
Wel for what its worth what happened to me is absolutely a direct result of the degredation of the Wikipedia culture by POV pushers and corruption. If a few miscreants and abusive editors/admins have the ability of launching a lonterm editor off the site, then imagine how many new editors they push away that do not have the contribution history.
That may be so, but in my experience such individual stories are of little interest to insiders, who have all heard such complaints before (including from people who quite clearly shared some responsibility for their own banning), and of no interest at all to outsiders, especially when framed in highly emotional terms by the banned person himself.

The internet is full of people complaining indignantly about the injustice of their being banned from some website. Nobody cares. If this site wants to be effective, it has to raise issues that outsiders will care about.

Wikipedia has kangaroo courts. That is a systemic issue worth looking at, and explaining. That you were banned isn't. It's at best a symptom of the malaise, and one of many such cases.
Same with my banning, not the least bit of interest, really, to anyone but me. However, it is a great way to chase off experts, and the complete lack of knowledge of these editors about how en.Wikipedia appears to new users shows that WikiPidiots who are considered leaders, such as Dennis Brown, are self-declared and out of touch. The editor retention project of Dennis's is the URL clueless garbage designed to boost what isn't reality, that editors are making an effort to recruit and add competent new editors, over what is, that en.Wikipedia is a fly-infested joke.



When Dennis Brown banned me and his posse and the guy who wrote the book on editing Wikipedia jumped to support and bolster his position it was the typical social-network in crowd. Not a single person was there to write an encyclopedia, and, because they were at not, my instantaneous block by Dennis and the jump to support him, even as it meant falsifying the opposite reason for the block, is the usual story. It is not a singular story, and would not be an interesting one. It is not interesting as one of many, because it is boringly typical, which is the story.


Indeed, the Internet is full of indignant assholes who have been blocked.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by HRIP7 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:09 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:Same with my banning, not the least bit of interest, really, to anyone but me.
Not so. You pointed out errors in Wikipedia's science articles, and got blocked for it. That's a matter of public interest that any person in the street can understand in one minute.

(Also, for accuracy's sake, you were unblocked less than two days later, and are currently a Wikipedia editor in good standing. ;) )

User avatar
Kumioko
Muted
Posts: 6609
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:36 am
Wikipedia User: Kumioko; Reguyla
Nom de plume: Persona non grata

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Kumioko » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:11 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
Kumioko wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:I have generally little interest in "someone done me wrong at AN/I" stories per se. Unless such a story says something particularly cogent about Wikipedia culture, what really matters is, How does this affect readers of Wikipedia, the general public, or the people written about in Wikipedia?
Wel for what its worth what happened to me is absolutely a direct result of the degredation of the Wikipedia culture by POV pushers and corruption. If a few miscreants and abusive editors/admins have the ability of launching a lonterm editor off the site, then imagine how many new editors they push away that do not have the contribution history.
That may be so, but in my experience such individual stories are of little interest to insiders, who have all heard such complaints before (including from people who quite clearly shared some responsibility for their own banning), and of no interest at all to outsiders, especially when framed in highly emotional terms by the banned person himself.

The internet is full of people complaining indignantly about the injustice of their being banned from some website. Nobody cares. If this site wants to be effective, it has to raise issues that outsiders will care about.

Wikipedia has kangaroo courts. That is a systemic issue worth looking at, and explaining. That you were banned isn't. It's at best a symptom of the malaise, and one of many such cases.
The key words in your statement are in "such individual stories are of little interest to insiders". Many of the insiders as you put it are the problem so I frankly have about the same interest in what they think as how they fee l about what I think. They are the problem in Wikipedia and many of those "insiders" hold key billets like being members of Arbcom. They do not care about anything else other than protecting their own interests and I do not believe they even care about the goal of the project. They wield their power like a weapon and as long as they are the kings and queens of the hill they will do whatever it takes, including violating or rewriting policy when it suits them to achieve their goals. YOU asked me for proof, but you all have seen the proof as well as I have. The insults, the abuse, the obvious violations of policy, using the tools abusively, etc. So please spare me the bring us proof or let it go because its unhealthy speech. You all created not one but 2 entire websites devoted to criticizing the problems of Wikipedia. That is about as not willing to let it go as one can get.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by HRIP7 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:16 pm

Kumioko wrote:The key words in your statement are in "such individual stories are of little interest to insiders". Many of the insiders as you put it are the problem so I frankly have about the same interest in what they think as how they fee l about what I think. They are the problem in Wikipedia and many of those "insiders" hold key billets like being members of Arbcom. They do not care about anything else other than protecting their own interests and I do not believe they even care about the goal of the project. They wield their power like a weapon and as long as they are the kings and queens of the hill they will do whatever it takes, including violating or rewriting policy when it suits them to achieve their goals. YOU asked me for proof, but you all have seen the proof as well as I have. The insults, the abuse, the obvious violations of policy, using the tools abusively, etc. So please spare me the bring us proof or let it go because its unhealthy speech. You all created not one but 2 entire websites devoted to criticizing the problems of Wikipedia. That is about as not willing to let it go as one can get.
I'm not saying it's unhealthy speech. I'm saying it's pointless speech. You're not going to make a dent like that.

enwikibadscience
Habitué
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:27 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:Same with my banning, not the least bit of interest, really, to anyone but me.
Not so. You pointed out errors in Wikipedia's science articles, and got blocked for it. That's a matter of public interest that any person in the street can understand in one minute.
No, that's not what I was blocked for. I am an editor in good standing. I was blocked, based on one edit, without a single look at my editing history, for "sock puppetry" by Dennis Brown, based on my appearing to look like a sock puppet who asked questions at the help desk, looking like a new user. He then prevented my being unblocked.

In spite of Cwmhiraeth's best efforts, people are confused enough to not dare to block me for the science. Wikipedia editors are too incompetent in that arena.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by HRIP7 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:33 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:I am an editor in good standing.
Yes. I just added that to my post above, but you were faster than me. :)
enwikibadscience wrote:I was blocked, based on one edit, without a single look at my editing history, for "sock puppetry" by Dennis Brown, based on my appearing to look like a sock puppet who asked questions at the help desk, looking like a new user. He then prevented my being unblocked.

In spite of Cwmhiraeth's best efforts, people are confused enough to not dare to block me for the science. Wikipedia editors are too incompetent in that arena.
I stand corrected as to the original block. :) However, there were certainly people calling for your head after that, and that was because you pointed out errors.

User avatar
SB_Johnny
Habitué
Posts: 4640
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:26 am
Wikipedia User: SB_Johnny
Wikipedia Review Member: SB_Johnny

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:56 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:No, that's not what I was blocked for. I am an editor in good standing. I was blocked, based on one edit, without a single look at my editing history, for "sock puppetry" by Dennis Brown, based on my appearing to look like a sock puppet who asked questions at the help desk, looking like a new user. He then prevented my being unblocked.
Did he apologize? I'm suddenly thinking less of him.
This is not a signature.

User avatar
Mason
Habitué
Posts: 2273
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:27 am

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Mason » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:12 am

SB_Johnny wrote:Did he apologize?
Yep.

enwikibadscience
Habitué
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:02 am

HRIP7 wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:I am an editor in good standing.
Yes. I just added that to my post above, but you were faster than me. :)
enwikibadscience wrote:I was blocked, based on one edit, without a single look at my editing history, for "sock puppetry" by Dennis Brown, based on my appearing to look like a sock puppet who asked questions at the help desk, looking like a new user. He then prevented my being unblocked.

In spite of Cwmhiraeth's best efforts, people are confused enough to not dare to block me for the science. Wikipedia editors are too incompetent in that arena.
I stand corrected as to the original block. :) However, there were certainly people calling for your head after that, and that was because you pointed out errors.
Yes, that is exactly why my head was called for. Meanwhile, Cwmhiraeth is still churning out the ridiculous and the made up in science, everyone who said they would monitor has just given up, and the crap is rolling onto the main page at the same rate.

By the way, we need to re-open her thread here at Wikipediocracy. It was mistakenly closed down as a polite thing to her, and she is very upset that we denied her the opportunity to refute my blog.
"My editor review should not have been about identifying my mistakes, although that is what it turned out to be. It should have been a proper assessment of what I do, the good points and the bad. I have no objection to you correcting any errors I make but there was no need to make a great song and dance about it. In the articles Salt and Sugar, it was not so much that I had got the medical aspects wrong, but that the studies I found and referred to had been superseded by others, and I had no idea how touchy WikiProject Medicine was about such things. I'm not even sure what terrible faults I committed in Anatomy because I was pretty fed up with your part of the review by then and just switched off. Nor did I agree with all the comments made by Af...... in her blog, some of which were just bunkum. When I joined the Wikipediocracy forum and started pointing out her errors there, she closed the thread down pretty quickly. As for why I mentioned the editor review on your talk page yesterday, that was because you were annoying another editor. I hoped that by collaborating with me now on a GAN, you could move away from the course of conduct that led LT910001 to complain at An/I. So, what about working together on a parrot or some other bird article, in between your bouts of enjoying the summer sunshine. I guess Casliber is lucky, I see the winter temperature in Sydney yesterday was 19°C, much the same as it is in the UK as we approach the longest day. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:40, 9 June 2014 (UTC)" thread
I did not close the thread down, as I can't. It was closed in the mistaken belief that that is what Cwmhiraeth wanted. I suggest we be more polite and re-open it for her, or maybe her friend Casliber, who is so supportive of her continuing to create content on en.Wikipedia.org, can open a thread just for her to attack my blog (go, go, Cwmhiraeth!) or let her know on en.Wikipedia.org, that she can open a new thread here to post about the problems with my blog.

Yeah, pointing out errors in Wikipedia articles is the biggest crime in town, and I have no doubt that I will eventually get blocked for it. The idea that she, or any of their editors, who can't catch the most simple mistakes, can be taught biology is pretty funny.

You are right, that thread is a story. My being blocked by Dennis Brown is not.

enwikibadscience
Habitué
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:24 am

Mason wrote:
SB_Johnny wrote:Did he apologize?
Yep.
Yep, indeed.
"===Dear friend...===

... It appears that in this case, I got it wrong, and in my haste to protect the site from a troublesome troll, I mistook your edits as being the other person's due to some superficial similarities. '''For this I apologize.''' I will also be more careful in the future, so someone else doesn't have to experience an unneeded block. ... I hope you can accept my apology and find your own unique niche here at Wikipedia. [[User:Dennis Brown|<b>Dennis&nbsp;Brown</b>]])"
My edits weren't anything like the trolls. The troll only edited help pages, never articles. Most of my few edits before being blocked were to articles. I was also being accused of being a sock puppet by someone else for the high quality of my article edits, particularly this one.

Dennis Brown did not look at my edits. He's a bully. A careless asshole who likes to throw his weight around. Then the lying apology? Please don't bother.

And it's not like my article edits were hidden from Dennis Brown. He was just being a bully and an asshole. I put up a request to be unblocked, But Dennis Brown also made it impossible for my request to be heard because of the nature of his sock puppet accusation, saying that discussing why he blocked me or allowing me any input would damage Wikipedia (with Cwmhiraeth around, no one else can even come close to damaging the wikipedia), so not only did he block me, based on an edit history he did not bother to look at, he did it in a way that I could not request an unblock.

And, let's face it, my niche doesn't exist on en.Wikipedia.org--I'm not willing to make up information to win the WikiCup, then bully everyone who can actually read science and see what crap I made up.

enwikibadscience
Habitué
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:41 am

And bullies are a big problem on en.Wikipedia.org

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31489
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:37 am

A careless asshole who likes to throw his weight around.
Got it in one.
He quite enjoys his position.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Zoloft
Trustee
Posts: 13984
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Nom de plume: William Burns
Location: San Diego
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Zoloft » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:14 am

enwikibadscience wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:I am an editor in good standing.
Yes. I just added that to my post above, but you were faster than me. :)
enwikibadscience wrote:I was blocked, based on one edit, without a single look at my editing history, for "sock puppetry" by Dennis Brown, based on my appearing to look like a sock puppet who asked questions at the help desk, looking like a new user. He then prevented my being unblocked.

In spite of Cwmhiraeth's best efforts, people are confused enough to not dare to block me for the science. Wikipedia editors are too incompetent in that arena.
I stand corrected as to the original block. :) However, there were certainly people calling for your head after that, and that was because you pointed out errors.
Yes, that is exactly why my head was called for. Meanwhile, Cwmhiraeth is still churning out the ridiculous and the made up in science, everyone who said they would monitor has just given up, and the crap is rolling onto the main page at the same rate.

By the way, we need to re-open her thread here at Wikipediocracy. It was mistakenly closed down as a polite thing to her, and she is very upset that we denied her the opportunity to refute my blog.
"My editor review should not have been about identifying my mistakes, although that is what it turned out to be. It should have been a proper assessment of what I do, the good points and the bad. I have no objection to you correcting any errors I make but there was no need to make a great song and dance about it. In the articles Salt and Sugar, it was not so much that I had got the medical aspects wrong, but that the studies I found and referred to had been superseded by others, and I had no idea how touchy WikiProject Medicine was about such things. I'm not even sure what terrible faults I committed in Anatomy because I was pretty fed up with your part of the review by then and just switched off. Nor did I agree with all the comments made by Af...... in her blog, some of which were just bunkum. When I joined the Wikipediocracy forum and started pointing out her errors there, she closed the thread down pretty quickly. As for why I mentioned the editor review on your talk page yesterday, that was because you were annoying another editor. I hoped that by collaborating with me now on a GAN, you could move away from the course of conduct that led LT910001 to complain at An/I. So, what about working together on a parrot or some other bird article, in between your bouts of enjoying the summer sunshine. I guess Casliber is lucky, I see the winter temperature in Sydney yesterday was 19°C, much the same as it is in the UK as we approach the longest day. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:40, 9 June 2014 (UTC)" thread
I did not close the thread down, as I can't. It was closed in the mistaken belief that that is what Cwmhiraeth wanted. I suggest we be more polite and re-open it for her, or maybe her friend Casliber, who is so supportive of her continuing to create content on en.Wikipedia.org, can open a thread just for her to attack my blog (go, go, Cwmhiraeth!) or let her know on en.Wikipedia.org, that she can open a new thread here to post about the problems with my blog.

Yeah, pointing out errors in Wikipedia articles is the biggest crime in town, and I have no doubt that I will eventually get blocked for it. The idea that she, or any of their editors, who can't catch the most simple mistakes, can be taught biology is pretty funny.

You are right, that thread is a story. My being blocked by Dennis Brown is not.
Cwmhiraeth is a member here and may open her own topic if she wishes. This is however offtopic to the subject of Dennis Brown.

My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
  • Actual mug ◄
  • Uncle Cornpone
  • Zoloft bouncy pill-thing


User avatar
Neotarf
Regular
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:09 am
Wikipedia User: Neotarf
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Neotarf » Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:13 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:
Mason wrote:
SB_Johnny wrote:Did he apologize?
Yep.
Yep, indeed.

... he did it in a way that I could not request an unblock.
That's a shame, ...and with a clean block log. There have been a lot of comments about how editors without a clean block log are treated. It's literally a rap sheet. At least an arb was able to get to it before the block expired and add a somewhat sympathetic comment.

Looks like User:Verycarefully is now unable to request an unblock, ...after four admins reviewed and denied the unblock request but weren't checkusers. The user, whose IP which appears to be in some computer lab at the University of Oregon, has now had talk page access removed indefinitely, with the comment "too many unblock requests". Indeed.

Hex
Retired
Posts: 4130
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:40 pm
Wikipedia User: Scott
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Hex » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:08 am

Neotarf wrote:
That's a shame, ...and with a clean block log. There have been a lot of comments about how editors without a clean block log are treated. It's literally a rap sheet. At least an arb was able to get to it before the block expired and add a somewhat sympathetic comment.
Anyone who thinks, like I do, that it's horseshit that we can't correct block logs, should encourage the WMF and/or MediaWiki devs to do something about it. Bug 44759 - Allow marking blocks that were made in error
My question, to this esteemed Wiki community, is this: Do you think that a Wiki could successfully generate a useful encyclopedia? -- JimboWales
Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)

User avatar
Zoloft
Trustee
Posts: 13984
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Nom de plume: William Burns
Location: San Diego
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Zoloft » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:49 am

Hex wrote:
Neotarf wrote:
That's a shame, ...and with a clean block log. There have been a lot of comments about how editors without a clean block log are treated. It's literally a rap sheet. At least an arb was able to get to it before the block expired and add a somewhat sympathetic comment.
Anyone who thinks, like I do, that it's horseshit that we can't correct block logs, should encourage the WMF and/or MediaWiki devs to do something about it. Bug 44759 - Allow marking blocks that were made in error
Man, that Bugzilla discussion is like a microcosm of what's wrong with Wikipedia governance.

My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
  • Actual mug ◄
  • Uncle Cornpone
  • Zoloft bouncy pill-thing


User avatar
Neotarf
Regular
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:09 am
Wikipedia User: Neotarf
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Neotarf » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:51 am

I understand that admins have the capability to edit through such range blocks.

User avatar
Kumioko
Muted
Posts: 6609
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:36 am
Wikipedia User: Kumioko; Reguyla
Nom de plume: Persona non grata

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Kumioko » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:04 am

Zoloft wrote:
Hex wrote:
Neotarf wrote:
That's a shame, ...and with a clean block log. There have been a lot of comments about how editors without a clean block log are treated. It's literally a rap sheet. At least an arb was able to get to it before the block expired and add a somewhat sympathetic comment.
Anyone who thinks, like I do, that it's horseshit that we can't correct block logs, should encourage the WMF and/or MediaWiki devs to do something about it. Bug 44759 - Allow marking blocks that were made in error
Man, that Bugzilla discussion is like a microcosm of what's wrong with Wikipedia governance.
yeah that's ridiculous. I also agree with Hex that its complete horseshit that block logs cannot be corrected if done in error.

User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Poetlister » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:49 am

Neotarf wrote:I understand that admins have the capability to edit through such range blocks.
Yes, Admins have all sorts of useful powers, including:

* Bypass IP blocks, auto-blocks and range blocks (ipblock-exempt)
* Bypass automatic blocks of proxies (proxyunbannable)
* Disable global blocks locally (globalblock-whitelist)
* Not be affected by IP-based rate limits (autoconfirmed)
* Not be affected by rate limits (noratelimit)
* Unblock oneself (unblockself)
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:11 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Neotarf wrote:I understand that admins have the capability to edit through such range blocks.
Yes, Admins have all sorts of useful powers, including:

* Bypass IP blocks, auto-blocks and range blocks (ipblock-exempt)
* Bypass automatic blocks of proxies (proxyunbannable)
* Disable global blocks locally (globalblock-whitelist)
* Not be affected by IP-based rate limits (autoconfirmed)
* Not be affected by rate limits (noratelimit)
* Unblock oneself (unblockself)
Pretty sweet to be able to operate one's account from a proxy, and so virtually untraceable even to other administrators and the WMF. The ultimate I guess is advance your administratorship to where you have all the abilities, like checkuser and bureaucrat and so forth, and then you can do do whatever you want. Checkuser all your old enemies, checkuser as Wormthatturned says anyone that annoys you. You can get into UTRS and snoop all the fun personal stuff there. Use Oversight to wipe out any of your old edits that are incriminating or embarrassing. The WMF has got your back with the new access to non-public information policy: you don't have to tell anyone anything to get all your advanced stuff. Just proxy up a throwaway web-email account and email them your "I am at least 18" statement! Untouchable. Sweet. Adminship is a cyberstalker's candy store and it's only getting better all the time. The WMF is even hinting soon, with cookies and so forth, you'll be able to snoop around not only editors, but also mere Wikipedia readers!
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:23 pm

Mason wrote:
SB_Johnny wrote:Did he apologize?
Yep.
He's still doing the same bull. So how sincere was the apology? Not at all sincere. I saw him perma-blocking another poor editor a couple or few weeks ago, with another contemptuous and unevidenced comment, ala the "Quack. Beans." crap he unloaded on Enwikibadscience. I documented his and his crew's ganging up on Nazariykaminski.

A schoolboy's apology last month for swiping five dollars from his mom's purse is going to ring pretty hollow when he's caught swiping a tenner from his dad's wallet yesterday. Dennis hasn't changed his abusive behavior, and he's not likely to.
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12083
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:29 pm

Triptych wrote:
Mason wrote:
SB_Johnny wrote:Did he apologize?
Yep.
He's still doing the same bull. So how sincere was the apology? Not at all sincere. I saw him perma-blocking another poor editor a couple or few weeks ago, with another contemptuous and unevidenced comment, ala the "Quack. Beans." crap he unloaded on Enwikibadscience. I documented his and his crew's ganging up on Nazariykaminski.

A schoolboy's apology last month for swiping five dollars from his mom's purse is going to ring pretty hollow when he's caught swiping a tenner from his dad's wallet yesterday. Dennis hasn't changed his abusive behavior, and he's not likely to.
This slag is even less compelling than your utterly unconvincing defense of the "poor editor"/adrenaline junky alternate account "Nazariykaminski"...

How about the slightest modicum of documentation so that your ranting can again be exposed for what it is?

RfB

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:01 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
How about the slightest modicum of documentation so that your ranting can again be exposed for what it is?
I gave plenty earlier in the thread. I thoroughly explained the Nazariy case. You responded that down was up and green was actually the color orange. You actually said Nazariy was an obvious sock because he or she clicked the "undo" button on his or her edit #7. Wow. You must be the smartest detective since Hercules Poirot with that kind of insight.

I'm surprised you didn't make administrator, Randy. You think just like the WP:AN/ANI set. That is to say defectively and not much at all.

Don't say I "rant" and don't ask me to go get you more hyperlinks when you've done squat to refute the ones I've already provided. Go take a long walk on a short pier.
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31489
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Vigilant » Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:29 pm

Triptych wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
How about the slightest modicum of documentation so that your ranting can again be exposed for what it is?
I gave plenty earlier in the thread. I thoroughly explained the Nazariy case. You responded that down was up and green was actually the color orange. You actually said Nazariy was an obvious sock because he or she clicked the "undo" button on his or her edit #7. Wow. You must be the smartest detective since Hercules Poirot with that kind of insight.

I'm surprised you didn't make administrator, Randy. You think just like the WP:AN/ANI set. That is to say defectively and not much at all.

Don't say I "rant" and don't ask me to go get you more hyperlinks when you've done squat to refute the ones I've already provided. Go take a long walk on a short pier.
Hey look! Another satisfied customer.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

Hex
Retired
Posts: 4130
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:40 pm
Wikipedia User: Scott
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Hex » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:02 pm

Triptych wrote:You must be the smartest detective since Hercules Poirot with that kind of insight.
Bianchi, Doctor, has it occurred to you that there are too many clu-ues in this room?
Hercules Poirot.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
My question, to this esteemed Wiki community, is this: Do you think that a Wiki could successfully generate a useful encyclopedia? -- JimboWales
Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)

User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12083
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sun Jun 22, 2014 4:55 pm

Triptych wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
How about the slightest modicum of documentation so that your ranting can again be exposed for what it is?
I gave plenty earlier in the thread. I thoroughly explained the Nazariy case. You responded that down was up and green was actually the color orange. You actually said Nazariy was an obvious sock because he or she clicked the "undo" button on his or her edit #7. Wow. You must be the smartest detective since Hercules Poirot with that kind of insight.

I'm surprised you didn't make administrator, Randy. You think just like the WP:AN/ANI set. That is to say defectively and not much at all.

Don't say I "rant" and don't ask me to go get you more hyperlinks when you've done squat to refute the ones I've already provided. Go take a long walk on a short pier.
You have an obsession with Dennis Brown. It is hysterical in both senses of the word. I am perfectly accurate in calling your polemic prose against him "ranting." And after your first dismal failure to show him as a bad actor, don't go bringing more specious charges with even less evidence. The shrieking of "WOLF!!! WOLF!!!" by a lupophobe is of no interest to anyone...

RfB

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:14 pm

Randy from Boise wrote: You have an obsession with Dennis Brown. It is hysterical in both senses of the word. I am perfectly accurate in calling your polemic prose against him "ranting." And after your first dismal failure to show him as a bad actor, don't go bringing more specious charges with even less evidence. The shrieking of "WOLF!!! WOLF!!!" by a lupophobe is of no interest to anyone..
I'll dial down my response because Wikipediocracy needs its participants criticizing Wikipedia and not bickering among themselves. I've already rebutted the other stuff as can be seen earlier in the thread. With regard to "obsession with Dennis Brown" I'll say that I've also harshly criticized, for mere examples, the administrators Beeblebrox, Kww, Bwilkins, Tparis, not to mention every single arb unless I accidentally missed some. So if I've really got obsessions going, I'm spreading them pretty thin.
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

User avatar
Off2riorob
Contributor
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:32 pm
Wikipedia User: Off2riorob
Wikipedia Review Member: Off2riorob

Re: Shorter Sumana: %$#&%$@s do %$@#&*%# Must Be Excluded

Unread post by Off2riorob » Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:43 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:
Triptych wrote:
Randy from Boise wrote:
Triptych wrote: Really I question whether just the act of characterizing certain participants as "assholes" doing "bullshit" and excluding them, that that is the act of the true asshole, but really it is not useful for people to think in these terms. Communities need policy and evidence-based processes with a reviewable record if they are going to go and exclude people. Otherwise the real jerks like Dennis Brown and Beeblebrox and Floquenbeam and Bwilkins gravitate to positions of authority and bully people like mad.
Dennis Brown is one of the best administrators at WP. He is an anti-cabalist, not a cabalist. You are confused.
I say I know him better than you, and I at least provided an explanation a couple posts above for my opinion. He is among the most heinous and most damaging and most bullying of administrators, and he's made the worse by the fact that he fronts like some Solomonic wiseman. There may be some things I'm confused about, not this.
You are so not confused about this. He is a malicious and petty bully, the worst of the worst. Anti-cabalist? Just look at the cabal circling their wagons around Dennis to protect him when revelations of his bullying are made.
He was my forced on me 'mentor' and didn't help at all - he needs a day job - he is like Bbb23

User avatar
Zoloft
Trustee
Posts: 13984
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Nom de plume: William Burns
Location: San Diego
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Zoloft » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:23 pm

Triptych wrote:I'll dial down my response because Wikipediocracy needs its participants criticizing Wikipedia and not bickering among themselves.
Grown greatly in the Force, you have.

My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
  • Actual mug ◄
  • Uncle Cornpone
  • Zoloft bouncy pill-thing


User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31489
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:34 am

Zoloft wrote:
Triptych wrote:I'll dial down my response because Wikipediocracy needs its participants criticizing Wikipedia and not bickering among themselves.
Grown greatly in the Force, you have.
Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.

Young fool... Only now, at the end, do you understand...

Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the Dark Side.

Now, you will pay the price for your lack of vision!
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

EricBarbour
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Location: hell

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by EricBarbour » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:19 am

Vigilant wrote:Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.

Young fool... Only now, at the end, do you understand...

Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the Dark Side.

Now, you will pay the price for your lack of vision!
Image

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31489
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:47 pm

I think of myself as more of a Bugs Bunny type of character.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31489
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:58 pm

Nice people you've got on your talk page there, Tim...
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... ton_Cosmic

Ask him about the spanking stuff. I dare you.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31489
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Vigilant » Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:44 am

Oppose - I haven't given up hope yet. Yes, he's being a jerk right now and having a bit of a tantrum, but he is very capable of helping us build an encyclopedia (the only reason Wikipedia exists). Frankly, I think we call for bans about 10x more than they are really needed around here. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Shhhhh, Dennis.
We're in the middle of a recruiting drive over here.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

enwikibadscience
Habitué
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:03 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Oppose - I haven't given up hope yet. Yes, he's being a jerk right now and having a bit of a tantrum, but he is very capable of helping us build an encyclopedia (the only reason Wikipedia exists). Frankly, I think we call for bans about 10x more than they are really needed around here. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Shhhhh, Dennis.
We're in the middle of a recruiting drive over here.
Frankly I think you use blocks carelessly and abusively, about 100X more than are really needed around there.

I wonder if editors like Dennis Brown are really about protecting and providing a safe harbor for the lame members of the community. Block someone like me in my first few edits, because I have provided excellent references, displaying competence, the possibility of my being an expert, and you make it safer for the idiots who could not read a science textbook correctly if they were paid to.

Not with obvious purpose, just a sense of danger, a good editor might be an expert alarm bell system.

User avatar
Kumioko
Muted
Posts: 6609
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:36 am
Wikipedia User: Kumioko; Reguyla
Nom de plume: Persona non grata

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Kumioko » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:16 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Oppose - I haven't given up hope yet. Yes, he's being a jerk right now and having a bit of a tantrum, but he is very capable of helping us build an encyclopedia (the only reason Wikipedia exists). Frankly, I think we call for bans about 10x more than they are really needed around here. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Shhhhh, Dennis.
We're in the middle of a recruiting drive over here.
Frankly I think you use blocks carelessly and abusively, about 100X more than are really needed around there.

I wonder if editors like Dennis Brown are really about protecting and providing a safe harbor for the lame members of the community. Block someone like me in my first few edits, because I have provided excellent references, displaying competence, the possibility of my being an expert, and you make it safer for the idiots who could not read a science textbook correctly if they were paid to.

Not with obvious purpose, just a sense of danger, a good editor might be an expert alarm bell system.
Anyone is going to take an action not everyone agrees with and certainly I haven't agreed with every of Dennis's actions, but I still think he is a far better admin than the liks of AGK (T-C-L), Sandstein (T-C-L), Kww (T-C-L), Fram (T-C-L) and several others.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31489
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Vigilant » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:39 pm

Kumioko wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Oppose - I haven't given up hope yet. Yes, he's being a jerk right now and having a bit of a tantrum, but he is very capable of helping us build an encyclopedia (the only reason Wikipedia exists). Frankly, I think we call for bans about 10x more than they are really needed around here. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Shhhhh, Dennis.
We're in the middle of a recruiting drive over here.
Frankly I think you use blocks carelessly and abusively, about 100X more than are really needed around there.

I wonder if editors like Dennis Brown are really about protecting and providing a safe harbor for the lame members of the community. Block someone like me in my first few edits, because I have provided excellent references, displaying competence, the possibility of my being an expert, and you make it safer for the idiots who could not read a science textbook correctly if they were paid to.

Not with obvious purpose, just a sense of danger, a good editor might be an expert alarm bell system.
Anyone is going to take an action not everyone agrees with and certainly I haven't agreed with every of Dennis's actions, but I still think he is a far better admin than the liks of AGK (T-C-L), Sandstein (T-C-L), Kww (T-C-L), Fram (T-C-L) and several others.
Just go to ANI/AN/Jimbo Talk and see who hangs out there.
These are the asshole admins.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:23 pm

Kumioko wrote: Anyone is going to take an action not everyone agrees with and certainly I haven't agreed with every of Dennis's actions, but I still think he is a far better admin than the liks of AGK (T-C-L), Sandstein (T-C-L), Kww (T-C-L), Fram (T-C-L) and several others.
That is my point about Dennis, Kumioko, he convincingly fronts like some wise man, claims credit for the "editor retention project" WP:WER. But that's an hollow shell. It doesn't actually do anything. So my perspective is that Dennis Brown is effectively even worse than an stupid outright bully like Bwilkins because he does even more damage, but manages to convey a persona that camouflages it.
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

enwikibadscience
Habitué
Posts: 1423
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:12 pm

Kumioko wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Oppose - I haven't given up hope yet. Yes, he's being a jerk right now and having a bit of a tantrum, but he is very capable of helping us build an encyclopedia (the only reason Wikipedia exists). Frankly, I think we call for bans about 10x more than they are really needed around here. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER 22:29, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Shhhhh, Dennis.
We're in the middle of a recruiting drive over here.
Frankly I think you use blocks carelessly and abusively, about 100X more than are really needed around there.

I wonder if editors like Dennis Brown are really about protecting and providing a safe harbor for the lame members of the community. Block someone like me in my first few edits, because I have provided excellent references, displaying competence, the possibility of my being an expert, and you make it safer for the idiots who could not read a science textbook correctly if they were paid to.

Not with obvious purpose, just a sense of danger, a good editor might be an expert alarm bell system.
Anyone is going to take an action not everyone agrees with and certainly I haven't agreed with every of Dennis's actions, but I still think he is a far better admin than the liks of AGK (T-C-L), Sandstein (T-C-L), Kww (T-C-L), Fram (T-C-L) and several others.
I watched him in action. My block, in which he couldn't be bothered to look at more than one edit, was not a one off.

He is a bully asshole. He pretends to be otherwise, and WikiPidiota are dupes.

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:10 pm

Dennis just blocked some editor on basis WP:DICK and when the guy came back and said don't call me a dick, Dennis blocked his talkpage on WP:DISRUPT. Still your man, Randy?
RoryMig (talk) 19:36, 20 July 2014 (UTC) wrote:I'm just guessing, as there's nothing behind that link that explains what it means to block someone for being a dick. You fucking dick.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =617745685.)

EDIT: Here's Dennis yokking it up and bonding with his best bud Drmies about blocking a potentially productive new contributor as a dick, thus probably changing his or her attitude towards Wikipedia forever: "just blocked your buddy RoryMig, Drmies. First time I've ever used WP:DICK as a rationale." (Http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =617743253.)
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

User avatar
mac
Banned
Posts: 845
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:21 am
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by mac » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:46 pm

Triptych wrote:Dennis just blocked some editor on basis WP:DICK and when the guy came back and said don't call me a dick, Dennis blocked his talkpage on WP:DISRUPT. Still your man, Randy?
RoryMig (talk) 19:36, 20 July 2014 (UTC) wrote:I'm just guessing, as there's nothing behind that link that explains what it means to block someone for being a dick. You fucking dick.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =617745685.)

EDIT: Here's Dennis yokking it up and bonding with his best bud Drmies about blocking a potentially productive new contributor as a dick, thus probably changing his or her attitude towards Wikipedia forever: "just blocked your buddy RoryMig, Drmies. First time I've ever used WP:DICK as a rationale." (Http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =617743253.)
Hm. WP:DICK (T-H-L):
Wikipedia:Don't be a dick
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Wikipedia:DICK)
Shortcuts:

WP:DICK
WP:DBAD
WP:DICKFORADAY

#REDIRECTmeta:Don't be a dick
This page is a soft redirect.
Fair enough. From http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_a_dick:
This is an essay. It expresses the opinions and ideas of some wikimedians or Meta-Wiki users, but may not have wide support. This is not policy on the Meta-Wiki, but it may be a policy or guideline on other Wikimedia projects. Feel free to update this page as needed, or use the discussion page to propose major changes.
[edit]
That's gotta be a real pube in the soup, to block on the basis of an essay. One that resides on a different Wikimedia project, no less.

By the way, Dennis:
How to deal with dicks without being a dick yourself

Telling someone "Don't be a dick" is generally a dick-move — especially if true. It upsets the other person and reduces the chance that they'll listen to what you say.

User avatar
Zoloft
Trustee
Posts: 13984
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Nom de plume: William Burns
Location: San Diego
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Zoloft » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:12 pm

In the Maylaysia Airlines Flight 17 talk page, Rorymig was indeed being a massive dick. Should have been blocked and told his behavior was insulting and dismissive of other editors.
Dennis Brown then mocked Rorymig after blocking him, and called him a dick. Not cool.

My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
  • Actual mug ◄
  • Uncle Cornpone
  • Zoloft bouncy pill-thing


User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:52 pm

Zoloft wrote:In the Maylaysia Airlines Flight 17 talk page, Rorymig was indeed being a massive dick. Should have been blocked and told his behavior was insulting and dismissive of other editors.
Dennis Brown then mocked Rorymig after blocking him, and called him a dick. Not cool.
I disagree and think you snap judged the matter based on Rory's "Sorry, but whoever wrote that page is a moron." He referred WP:ICONDECORATION, whatever that is. Is it possible to be a "massive dick" and worthy of being blocked by criticizing a page, which is what he did? Of course not. Or is your argument, Zoloft, that the remark is properly construed as calling everyone who ever edited that page as, personally, a moron? I hope not.

I really think what needs to happen before justifying blocks and insulting people as dicks is that brand new editor Rory's comments should be read, including to roughly understand the matters on which he comments, rather than cherry-picking them to make the claim that he should've been blocked.
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

User avatar
Zoloft
Trustee
Posts: 13984
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Nom de plume: William Burns
Location: San Diego
Contact:

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Zoloft » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:25 pm

Triptych wrote:
Zoloft wrote:In the Maylaysia Airlines Flight 17 talk page, Rorymig was indeed being a massive dick. Should have been blocked and told his behavior was insulting and dismissive of other editors.
Dennis Brown then mocked Rorymig after blocking him, and called him a dick. Not cool.
I disagree and think you snap judged the matter based on Rory's "Sorry, but whoever wrote that page is a moron." He referred WP:ICONDECORATION, whatever that is. Is it possible to be a "massive dick" and worthy of being blocked by criticizing a page, which is what he did? Of course not. Or is your argument, Zoloft, that the remark is properly construed as calling everyone who ever edited that page as, personally, a moron? I hope not.

I really think what needs to happen before justifying blocks and insulting people as dicks is that brand new editor Rory's comments should be read, including to roughly understand the matters on which he comments, rather than cherry-picking them to make the claim that he should've been blocked.
Who cherrypicked?

I didn't cite any of his comments.

Here let's cite almost all of them:
Sorry, but whoever wrote that page is a moron. There's an abundance of research that says the visual cortex processes images, such as flag icons, many times faster than the written word. Therefore, it strikes me that if you're going to format these reactions as a list of countries, and you aren't even going to put that list into alphabetical order!, then flag icons will help readers quickly identify each country in the list. It will also help them quickly identify the entries that aren't countries at all (Novorossiya, UN, IATA). That said, this will probably be redundant if the proposal above, to remove them all, succeeds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RoryMig (talk • contribs) 15:53, 20 July 2014‎

"Most people don't even know what flag refers to what country" - prove it. I'd say that learning what flag belongs to what country is pre-school stuff, so what you're basically doing is assuming the average reader of Wikipedia has a level of education below pre-school. Which is quite obviously nonsense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RoryMig (talk • contribs) 16:38, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I guess we just have to decide who has the better argument then. On the one hand, we have 'I get easily distracted by colours' and 'nobody knows their flags anyway', versus the fact that, if scientific research is anything to go by, they are in this context (an unsorted list of countries), quite obviously navigational aids which aid reader comprehension, and therefore are in fact explicitly allowed for by the policy. It's a puzzler, it really is. RoryMig (talk) 18:29, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I can see from the sarcasm that that must have been very difficult thing for you to do. And for the record, I've never seen any scientific research dealing with what formatting style helps people communicate on Wikipedia. I've seen a bucket load about the differences between how the brain processes pictures versus text, but I appear to be the only one here who has. Wikipedia doesn't seem to have any people interested in such things here, even though it has people calling themselves doctors. You must be the medical kind. Gums I'm assuming. RoryMig (talk) 16:56, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't know what Nyttend did, but for me, the idea that such a change could be detailed here beforehand in individual steps is absurd. I'm talking about moving a large number of paragraphs from various different places, and adding some more info, with all the changes in wording and structure that entails. Ridiculous. No, if the "good reasons" for the protection do really exist (still not seeing where they've ever been explained), then they will have to justify people not being able to properly read information like this in topical sections, unless or until its not protected, and people like me can actually improve the article. Assuming of course, people aren't going to stop the work on the idiotic basis that such information isn't "directly relevant". RoryMig (talk) 17:54, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I've seen plenty of reliable sources making the connection, and not just because the basic coincidence (and since when was it not important to note such coincidences?). It is also being discussed in depth, both in terms of the historical rarity of a single airline suffering the loss of two major airliners like the triple 7 in the space of months, as well as the possible financial impact on the airline due to the effect of such a coincidence on their brand in passengers minds. If the article wasn't protected for supposedly "good reasons" (according to Drmies), I could probably add something about that. RoryMig (talk) 17:10, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

They already have, I just gave two links above. Can't you read? RoryMig (talk) 17:59, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Don't talk utter crap. I didn't even have to go past the second sentence in the newsday link before I found a piece of "factual information" not currently in this article. And examining the other source, it seems to me your idea of factual information excludes the opinions of aviation experts/analysts - so good luck with chopping all the other examples of such that are already in the article. RoryMig (talk) 18:19, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Seriously? This is like talking to kindergarteners. As I have already said, the coincidence has been dealt with in some sources in the context of the effect on the company's financial health. If the airline was in rude health financially, that would mean the brand would need to be seriously damaged to have an effect. If it was already in trouble, it wouldn't take much. Do you want me to use simpler words or something? Or are you just being deliberately obtuse? RoryMig (talk) 18:52, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I didn't provide the link as a basis for any particular edit, I merely provided it to prove they exist and they discuss the things I said they were. If or when the protection is removed, I may or may not think about exactly what I want to add, and therefore see which sources are best to use. I'm certainly not going to waste my time drafting it here for your approval, not when it's pretty clear you have serious reading/comprehension problems (and have already basically said I'm only here to add crap). RoryMig (talk) 18:52, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

It's beyond stupid what protecting this article means for people like me, who can see what flaws it has, and what needs to be added/changed. Just look at the nonsense you have to endure above - requests for sources, after they've been given. Repeated claims that obviously relevant information is not important. It's just total idiocy. Whatever problems the protection supposedly fixed, it's obviously being outweighed by this farce. RoryMig (talk) 18:08, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
Seriously, why do people think that making such obviously idiotic comments add anything? If you meant to say, Wikipedia doesn't do news, then why is the article even here? If you meant to say something else, engage your brain, and try again, because I haven't got a clue what your point is supposed to be. RoryMig (talk) 18:57, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
Insults highlighted in yellow.

He's a dick.

My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
  • Actual mug ◄
  • Uncle Cornpone
  • Zoloft bouncy pill-thing


User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12083
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:41 am

Dennis Brown is a good dude.

That is all.

t

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:43 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:Dennis Brown is a good dude.

That is all.
Wrong or absurd, you're entitled to your opinion. Good dudes do not block while insulting new editor as a dick, go off to backslap and chortle about it with their admin buddies, and then return to block talkpage access because the victim called them a dick back.
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

User avatar
Triptych
Retired
Posts: 1910
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:35 am
Wikipedia User: it's alliterative

Re: Dennis Brown, admin-about-town

Unread post by Triptych » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:20 pm

Zoloft wrote: Who cherrypicked?

I didn't cite any of his comments.

Here let's cite almost all of them:
Sorry, but whoever wrote that page is a moron. There's an abundance of research that says the visual cortex processes images, such as flag icons, many times faster than the written word. Therefore, it strikes me that if you're going to format these reactions as a list of countries, and you aren't even going to put that list into alphabetical order!, then flag icons will help readers quickly identify each country in the list. It will also help them quickly identify the entries that aren't countries at all (Novorossiya, UN, IATA). That said, this will probably be redundant if the proposal above, to remove them all, succeeds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RoryMig (talk • contribs) 15:53, 20 July 2014‎

"Most people don't even know what flag refers to what country" - prove it. I'd say that learning what flag belongs to what country is pre-school stuff, so what you're basically doing is assuming the average reader of Wikipedia has a level of education below pre-school. Which is quite obviously nonsense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RoryMig (talk • contribs) 16:38, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I guess we just have to decide who has the better argument then. On the one hand, we have 'I get easily distracted by colours' and 'nobody knows their flags anyway', versus the fact that, if scientific research is anything to go by, they are in this context (an unsorted list of countries), quite obviously navigational aids which aid reader comprehension, and therefore are in fact explicitly allowed for by the policy. It's a puzzler, it really is. RoryMig (talk) 18:29, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. I can see from the sarcasm that that must have been very difficult thing for you to do. And for the record, I've never seen any scientific research dealing with what formatting style helps people communicate on Wikipedia. I've seen a bucket load about the differences between how the brain processes pictures versus text, but I appear to be the only one here who has. Wikipedia doesn't seem to have any people interested in such things here, even though it has people calling themselves doctors. You must be the medical kind. Gums I'm assuming. RoryMig (talk) 16:56, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't know what Nyttend did, but for me, the idea that such a change could be detailed here beforehand in individual steps is absurd. I'm talking about moving a large number of paragraphs from various different places, and adding some more info, with all the changes in wording and structure that entails. Ridiculous. No, if the "good reasons" for the protection do really exist (still not seeing where they've ever been explained), then they will have to justify people not being able to properly read information like this in topical sections, unless or until its not protected, and people like me can actually improve the article. Assuming of course, people aren't going to stop the work on the idiotic basis that such information isn't "directly relevant". RoryMig (talk) 17:54, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I've seen plenty of reliable sources making the connection, and not just because the basic coincidence (and since when was it not important to note such coincidences?). It is also being discussed in depth, both in terms of the historical rarity of a single airline suffering the loss of two major airliners like the triple 7 in the space of months, as well as the possible financial impact on the airline due to the effect of such a coincidence on their brand in passengers minds. If the article wasn't protected for supposedly "good reasons" (according to Drmies), I could probably add something about that. RoryMig (talk) 17:10, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

They already have, I just gave two links above. Can't you read? RoryMig (talk) 17:59, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Don't talk utter crap. I didn't even have to go past the second sentence in the newsday link before I found a piece of "factual information" not currently in this article. And examining the other source, it seems to me your idea of factual information excludes the opinions of aviation experts/analysts - so good luck with chopping all the other examples of such that are already in the article. RoryMig (talk) 18:19, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Seriously? This is like talking to kindergarteners. As I have already said, the coincidence has been dealt with in some sources in the context of the effect on the company's financial health. If the airline was in rude health financially, that would mean the brand would need to be seriously damaged to have an effect. If it was already in trouble, it wouldn't take much. Do you want me to use simpler words or something? Or are you just being deliberately obtuse? RoryMig (talk) 18:52, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

I didn't provide the link as a basis for any particular edit, I merely provided it to prove they exist and they discuss the things I said they were. If or when the protection is removed, I may or may not think about exactly what I want to add, and therefore see which sources are best to use. I'm certainly not going to waste my time drafting it here for your approval, not when it's pretty clear you have serious reading/comprehension problems (and have already basically said I'm only here to add crap). RoryMig (talk) 18:52, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

It's beyond stupid what protecting this article means for people like me, who can see what flaws it has, and what needs to be added/changed. Just look at the nonsense you have to endure above - requests for sources, after they've been given. Repeated claims that obviously relevant information is not important. It's just total idiocy. Whatever problems the protection supposedly fixed, it's obviously being outweighed by this farce. RoryMig (talk) 18:08, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
Seriously, why do people think that making such obviously idiotic comments add anything? If you meant to say, Wikipedia doesn't do news, then why is the article even here? If you meant to say something else, engage your brain, and try again, because I haven't got a clue what your point is supposed to be. RoryMig (talk) 18:57, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
Insults highlighted in yellow.

He's a dick.
Excuse me, "cherrypicked" was the wrong word to use and does indeed carry some baggage with it, because it supposes that the picker acquainted himself or herself with the situation broadly, then chose a select and convenient piece here or there to make his or her point. No Zoloft, I didn't mean to suggest you did that.

I did mean that I thought you were swayed by where he said "that page must've been written by a moron" but I don't know that either. Dennis Brown alleged that by that comment he was personally calling a moron each contributor to that style manual page on icons, but I didn't see it that way.

You did a kick ass job collating and yellow marking those comments of Rorymig but I think you overplayed your "he's a dick" hand. I respond to your first three examples:

1) The "obviously nonsense" part is actually repudiating the idea that Wikipedia readers are incapable of recognizing the flags of various countries. Rory isn't a dick for saying that.

2) "It's a puzzler, it really is." Well, there he's asserting that his argument that scholarly research shows that readers are aided by markers like flag icons in text is superior to Drmies' position that he personally is distracted by the flag icons. It's a bit of a sharp remark, but there are a lot of sharp remarks on that discussion page. The other people there would be silly to get bent out of shape over that (and none did) and although the remark is sharp, I don't think it makes him a dick.

3) "I can see from the sarcasm that that must have been very difficult thing for you to do." Well, here he's reacting to Drmies' statement to him that was indeed sarcastic, or at least smart-asstic. If one is a dick for that, the other must be too.

Well, enough. I think tensions are a little high on that talkpage (it's the plane crash in Ukraine) and Rory and others are frustrated because editing the page has been locked to new editors and IPs. So they have to laboriously propose whatever on the talkpage and pray somebody else makes it for them. Please, nobody portray me as arguing that Rorymig is behaving saintly. Indeed I think he's been very abrasive, but in a lot of that he's coming back at people that he views as coming at him (and some of them are indeed coming at him) and there's little reason in my view to have blocked him for that, much less to do so in the involved and, ermm, dickish way Dennis did.
EDIT: add video link only.
Triptych. A Live Journal I have under other pseudonym, w. email address: Tim Song Fan. My Arbcom Accountability Project: in German. In art.

Post Reply