Photo of Coke can

Unread post by **tarantino** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:09 am

A user who says they are a 15 year old boy from Indonesia claims they are the copyright holder of this image, even though the meta data says the author is Rodger Macuch:

It's used on 236 pages of wikipedia.

Bielle · Unread post by **Bielle** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:21 am

It's not surprising that a 15-year-old from any country wouldn't understand that uploading an image is not the same as creating one. What is disturbing is that Commons has let it be and that Coke, who guards its image rights closely, has not complained.

enwikibadscience · Unread post by **enwikibadscience** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:04 am

Bielle wrote:It's not surprising that a 15-year-old from any country wouldn't understand that uploading an image is not the same as creating one. What is disturbing is that Commons has let it be and that Coke, who guards its image rights closely, has not complained.

Can a 15-year-old give up copyright? I couldn't as a minor.

lilburne · Unread post by **lilburne** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:49 am

enwikibadscience wrote:
Bielle wrote:It's not surprising that a 15-year-old from any country wouldn't understand that uploading an image is not the same as creating one. What is disturbing is that Commons has let it be and that Coke, who guards its image rights closely, has not complained.
Can a 15-year-old give up copyright? I couldn't as a minor.

Not really, but they can license their work, and they can revoke the license at any time too, contrary to what the CC license says. But then again I don't suppose that at the time Lessig was devising the licenses that they contemplated children being a major supplier of content to a blogging site.

It is a sort of existential problem for "child labour mogul" Jimmy Wales' website as it covers all the text too. See link

enwikibadscience · Unread post by **enwikibadscience** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:37 am

lilburne wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:
Bielle wrote:It's not surprising that a 15-year-old from any country wouldn't understand that uploading an image is not the same as creating one. What is disturbing is that Commons has let it be and that Coke, who guards its image rights closely, has not complained.
Can a 15-year-old give up copyright? I couldn't as a minor.
Not really, but they can license their work, and they can revoke the license at any time too, contrary to what the CC license says. But then again I don't suppose that at the time Lessig was devising the licenses that they contemplated children being a major supplier of content to a blogging site.

It is a sort of existential problem for "child labour mogul" Jimmy Wales' website as it covers all the text too. See link

I had not thought of the text, but I suppose you are correct there.

Hex · Unread post by **Hex** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:33 am

tarantino wrote:the meta data says the author is Rodger Macuch...

Just like on Commons File:CokeZero.JPG (note on Commons). Which is also marked as "public domain". Yet File:Diet Cherry coke.jpg (T-H-L) requires a fair use tag, as it ought to. And then there's Category:Coca-Cola cans on Commons - so much for that "de minimis" stuff, huh?

I just emailed Rodger Macuch, and he says that he sold the rights of those images to The Coca-Cola Company. Deletion requests on that basis will be coming as soon as I get an OTRS ticket number for the copy of the correspondence I've filed with them.

Kelly Martin · Unread post by **Kelly Martin** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:08 pm

lilburne wrote:Not really, but they can license their work, and they can revoke the license at any time too, contrary to what the CC license says. But then again I don't suppose that at the time Lessig was devising the licenses that they contemplated children being a major supplier of content to a blogging site.

In the United States, at least, the copyright in a work created by a minor is held in beneficial trust by his or her parents or legal guardian until they reach the age of majority, as minors cannot own property in their own right. Because the minor does not own the copyright, he or she cannot validly license it.

Johnny Au · Unread post by **Johnny Au** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:05 pm

We should take a look here as well: Coca-Cola Freestyle (T-H-L)

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:42 pm

Of course, if you photograph a copyright image you own the copyright in the photo. It's just that you can't use it as your exclusive property because it infringes the other copyright. Some countries have what's called "freedom of panorama", where if you take a photo of say a public square and incidentally a small part of the image is a copyright object (say, a statue in the square) you're OK. That turns up in a lot of Commons discussions. Clearly it can't apply here.

lilburne · Unread post by **lilburne** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:24 pm

Kelly Martin wrote:
lilburne wrote:Not really, but they can license their work, and they can revoke the license at any time too, contrary to what the CC license says. But then again I don't suppose that at the time Lessig was devising the licenses that they contemplated children being a major supplier of content to a blogging site.
In the United States, at least, the copyright in a work created by a minor is held in beneficial trust by his or her parents or legal guardian until they reach the age of majority, as minors cannot own property in their own right. Because the minor does not own the copyright, he or she cannot validly license it.

The most amusing thing about the ArticKangaro brouhaha was Geoff Brigham saying that the kid would have to revoke all his contributions, rendering create big holes all over the project, and just how they were going to deal with stuff that had subsequently modified, well wikipedia would just have to shut up shop is what would happen. STUPID PRICK.

Unread post by **tarantino** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:36 pm

Hex wrote:
tarantino wrote:the meta data says the author is Rodger Macuch...
Just like on Commons File:CokeZero.JPG (note on Commons). Which is also marked as "public domain". Yet File:Diet Cherry coke.jpg (T-H-L) requires a fair use tag, as it ought to. And then there's Category:Coca-Cola cans on Commons - so much for that "de minimis" stuff, huh?

I just emailed Rodger Macuch, and he says that he sold the rights of those images to The Coca-Cola Company. Deletion requests on that basis will be coming as soon as I get an OTRS ticket number for the copy of the correspondence I've filed with them.

Looking at the photos on commons that were taken using a $20,000 Sinarback camera back, quite a few appear to be copyright violations.

Kelly Martin · Unread post by **Kelly Martin** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:30 pm

lilburne wrote:Geoff Brigham saying that the kid would have to revoke all his contributions, rendering create big holes all over the project, and just how they were going to deal with stuff that had subsequently modified, well wikipedia would just have to shut up shop is what would happen.

I love that sort of argument. "The consequences of following the law are too upsetting for us so we are going to just ignore the law." Isn't Brigham an employee of the WMF? Cuz that statement will toss their "innocent infringement" defense right flat out of the water.

EricBarbour · Unread post by **EricBarbour** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:06 pm

tarantino wrote:Looking at the photos on commons that were taken using a $20,000 Sinarback camera back, quite a few appear to be copyright violations.

"This work has been released into the public domain by its author, shooter."
Yeah, suuuure.

I love that sort of argument. "The consequences of following the law are too upsetting for us so we are going to just ignore the law." Isn't Brigham an employee of the WMF? Cuz that statement will toss their "innocent infringement" defense right flat out of the water.

I am still surprised this kind of attitude hasn't resulted in some sort of legal issue for the WMF---yet. Trashing their "fun" would only require one successful court challenge.

lonza leggiera · Unread post by **lonza leggiera** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:10 pm

tarantino wrote:A user who says they are a 15 year old boy from Indonesia claims they are the copyright holder of this image, ... link [snipping out image]

I doubt that this editor meant to claim he was the copyright holder. He doesn't appear to be responsible for adding the PD-self template, which was already there on the page when he uploaded his new version of the file. It had been put there by the uploader of the original version of the file. Unlike this latter editor, the 15-yo Indonesian doesn't seem to have a history of falsely claiming to own the copyright of images for which he quite clearly does not. While the Indonesian editor certainly has an unacceptably cavalier attitude to dealing with copyrighted images, I suspect it simply didn't occur to him that the pre-existing PD-template would be interpreted as a claim by him to own the copyright in the image he uploaded.

I strongly suspect that the claim by the uploader of the original image to own its copyright is also hogwash, but there's nothing in its metadata to prove it:

---- ExifTool ----
ExifTool Version Number : 9.54
---- System ----
File Name : 20131220125439!Nuvola_apps_Cokex.jpg

... [System information deleted] ...

---- File ----
File Type : JPEG
MIME Type : image/jpeg
Image Width : 91
Image Height : 150
Encoding Process : Baseline DCT, Huffman coding
Bits Per Sample : 8
Color Components : 3
Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling : YCbCr4:2:0 (2 2)
---- JFIF ----
JFIF Version : 1.01
Resolution Unit : None
X Resolution : 1
Y Resolution : 1
---- Composite ----
Image Size : 91x150

There is still at least one file on Commons, however, which this editor claims to be the author of, but whose metadata indicates that the copyright is almost certainly owned by someone else (Michael H. Myers):

---- ExifTool ----
ExifTool Version Number : 9.54
---- System ----
File Name : Nightt.jpg

... [System information deleted] ...

---- File ----
File Type : JPEG
MIME Type : image/jpeg
Comment : ©Michael H. Myers [email address snipped]
Image Width : 410
Image Height : 276
Encoding Process : Baseline DCT, Huffman coding
Bits Per Sample : 8
Color Components : 3
Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling : YCbCr4:2:2 (2 1)
---- JFIF ----
JFIF Version : 1.01
Resolution Unit : inches
X Resolution : 150
Y Resolution : 150
---- Composite ----
Image Size : 410x276

This image would appear to have been purloined from the owner of this site, although I haven't been able to find a copy of it there.

Bielle wrote:It's not surprising that a 15-year-old from any country wouldn't understand that uploading an image is not the same as creating one. What is disturbing is that Commons has let it be ...

Wikipedia-en, not Commons, in this case. The image hasn't yet been uploaded to Commons.

Hex wrote: ...
Just like on Commons File:CokeZero.JPG (note on Commons). Which is also marked as "public domain". ...

Russavia has now deleted the infringing version of that image, and restored the original version. I can't see anything in the metadata of the original version to suggest that its uploader was telling fibs when claiming it was his or her "own work".

---- ExifTool ----
ExifTool Version Number : 9.54
Warning : [minor] Adjusted MakerNotes base by 4210
---- System ----
File Name : 20100518201108!CokeZero.JPG

... [system information deleted] ...

---- File ----
File Type : JPEG
MIME Type : image/jpeg
Exif Byte Order : Big-endian (Motorola, MM)
Image Width : 2448
Image Height : 3264
Encoding Process : Baseline DCT, Huffman coding
Bits Per Sample : 8
Color Components : 3
Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling : YCbCr4:4:0 (1 2)
---- JFIF ----
JFIF Version : 1.01
Resolution Unit : inches
X Resolution : 180
Y Resolution : 180
---- IFD0 ----
Make : Canon
Camera Model Name : Canon PowerShot SD1100 IS
Orientation : Horizontal (normal)
X Resolution : 180
Y Resolution : 180
Resolution Unit : inches
Software : Microsoft Windows Photo Gallery 6.0.6001.18000
Modify Date : 2009:07:03 22:59:07
Y Cb Cr Positioning : Centered
Padding : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
---- ExifIFD ----
Exposure Time : 1/60
F Number : 4.9
ISO : 200
Exif Version : 0220
Date/Time Original : 2009:07:03 22:55:53
Create Date : 2009:07:03 22:55:53
Components Configuration : Y, Cb, Cr, -
Compressed Bits Per Pixel : 3
Shutter Speed Value : 1/60
Aperture Value : 4.9
Exposure Compensation : 0
Max Aperture Value : 4.9
Metering Mode : Multi-segment
Flash : Auto, Fired, Red-eye reduction
Focal Length : 18.6 mm
User Comment :
Flashpix Version : 0100
Color Space : sRGB
Exif Image Width : 2448
Exif Image Height : 3264
Focal Plane X Resolution : 23120
Focal Plane Y Resolution : 23085.79882
Focal Plane Resolution Unit : inches
Sensing Method : One-chip color area
File Source : Digital Camera
Custom Rendered : Normal
Exposure Mode : Auto
White Balance : Auto
Digital Zoom Ratio : 1.59375
Scene Capture Type : Standard
Padding : (Binary data 2060 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Offset Schema : 60
---- Canon ----
Macro Mode : Normal
Self Timer : Off
Quality : Fine
Canon Flash Mode : Red-eye reduction (Auto)
Continuous Drive : Single
Focus Mode : Single
Record Mode : JPEG
Canon Image Size : Large
Easy Mode : Full auto
Digital Zoom : Other
Contrast : Normal
Saturation : Normal
Sharpness : 0
Camera ISO : Auto
Metering Mode : Evaluative
Focus Range : Auto
AF Point : Face Detect
Canon Exposure Mode : Easy
Lens Type : Unknown (-1)
Max Focal Length : 18.6 mm
Min Focal Length : 6.2 mm
Focal Units : 1000/mm
Max Aperture : 4.9
Min Aperture : 14
Flash Bits : E-TTL, Built-in
Focus Continuous : Single
AE Setting : Normal AE
Image Stabilization : On
Display Aperture : 4.9
Zoom Source Width : 2048
Zoom Target Width : 3264
Spot Metering Mode : Center
Manual Flash Output : n/a
Focal Type : Zoom
Focal Length : 18.6 mm
Focal Plane X Size : 9.32 mm
Focal Plane Y Size : 6.99 mm
Canon Flash Info : 0 0 0 0
Auto ISO : 200
Base ISO : 100
Measured EV : 5.38
Target Aperture : 4.9
Target Exposure Time : 1/60
Exposure Compensation : 0
White Balance : Auto
Slow Shutter : Off
Shot Number In Continuous Burst : 0
Optical Zoom Code : 6
Flash Guide Number : 2.875
Flash Exposure Compensation : 0
Auto Exposure Bracketing : Off
AEB Bracket Value : 0
Control Mode : Camera Local Control
Focus Distance Upper : 0.62 m
Focus Distance Lower : 0 m
F Number : 5
Exposure Time : 1/64
Bulb Duration : 0
Camera Type : Compact
Auto Rotate : Rotate 90 CW
ND Filter : Off
Self Timer 2 : 0
Flash Output : 38
Canon 0x0000 : 0 0 0 0 0 16384
Canon Image Type : IMG:PowerShot SD1100 IS JPEG
Canon Firmware Version : Firmware Version 1.00
File Number : 101-2806
Owner Name :
ISO : 200
F Number : 5.1
Exposure Time : 1/64
Rotation : 90
Camera Temperature : 33 C
Canon Model ID : PowerShot SD1100 IS / Digital IXUS 80 IS / IXY Digital 20 IS
Canon 0x0000 : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
AF Info Size : 96
AF Area Mode : Multi-point AF or AI AF
Num AF Points : 9
Valid AF Points : 9
Canon Image Width : 3264
Canon Image Height : 2448
AF Image Width : 100
AF Image Height : 100
AF Area Widths : 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
AF Area Heights : 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18 18
AF Area X Positions : -18 0 18 -18 0 18 -18 0 18
AF Area Y Positions : -18 -18 -18 0 0 0 18 18 18
AF Points In Focus : 1
Canon AF Info 2 0x000d : 0 0
Primary AF Point : 1
Thumbnail Image Valid Area : 0 0 0 0
Canon 0x0018 : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0[...]
Canon 0x0019 : 1
Date Stamp Mode : Off
My Color Mode : Off
Firmware Revision : 1.00 rev 3.00
Canon 0x001f : 138 1 0 4 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0[...]
Canon 0x0022 : 416 2 1 16 8 24 16 640 480 65216 65296 320 240 2 8 384 [...]
Categories : (none)
Canon 0x0027 : 8 0 0 0 32460 28917 53808 64970
Image Unique ID : cc7ef57030d2cafd3b565e88d714790e
VRD Offset : 0
Canon 0x002d : 0
---- InteropIFD ----
Interoperability Index : R98 - DCF basic file (sRGB)
Interoperability Version : 0100
Related Image Width : 3264
Related Image Height : 2448
---- IFD1 ----
Compression : JPEG (old-style)
X Resolution : 0.01041666667
Y Resolution : 0.01041666667
Resolution Unit : inches
Thumbnail Offset : 7614
Thumbnail Length : 5608
---- XMP-rdf ----
About : uuid:faf5bdd5-ba3d-11da-ad31-d33d75182f1b
---- XMP-microsoft ----
Date Acquired : 2009:07:04 02:58:34Z
---- XMP-xmp ----
Creator Tool : Microsoft Windows Photo Gallery 6.0.6001.18000
Creatortool : Microsoft Windows Photo Gallery 6.0.6001.18000
---- XMP-tiff ----
Software : Microsoft Windows Photo Gallery 6.0.6001.18000
Software : Microsoft Windows Photo Gallery 6.0.6001.18000
Orientation : Horizontal (normal)
---- Composite ----
Aperture : 4.9
Flash Exposure Compensation : 0
Digital Zoom : 1.59x
Drive Mode : Single-frame Shooting
Flash Type : Built-In Flash
ISO : 200
Image Size : 2448x3264
Lens : 6.2 - 18.6 mm
Lens ID : Unknown 6-18mm
Red Eye Reduction : Off
Scale Factor To 35 mm Equivalent: 5.9
Shooting Mode : Full auto
Shutter Curtain Sync : 1st-curtain sync
Shutter Speed : 1/60
Thumbnail Image : (Binary data 5608 bytes, use -b option to extract)
Circle Of Confusion : 0.005 mm
Field Of View : 18.6 deg
Focal Length : 18.6 mm (35 mm equivalent: 110.1 mm)
Hyperfocal Distance : 13.91 m
Lens : 6.2 - 18.6 mm (35 mm equivalent: 36.7 - 110.1 mm)
Light Value : 9.5

Hex · Unread post by **Hex** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:50 pm

lonza leggiera wrote:
Hex wrote: ...
Just like on Commons File:CokeZero.JPG (note on Commons). Which is also marked as "public domain". ...
Russavia has now deleted the infringing version of that image, and restored the original version.

The one on WP has been deleted as well, by Lankiveil (T-C-L).

Wikipediocracy has the best minions.

enwikibadscience · Unread post by **enwikibadscience** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:22 pm

Hex wrote:
lonza leggiera wrote:
Hex wrote: ...
Just like on Commons File:CokeZero.JPG (note on Commons). Which is also marked as "public domain". ...
Russavia has now deleted the infringing version of that image, and restored the original version.
The one on WP has been deleted as well, by Lankiveil (T-C-L).

Wikipediocracy has the best minions.

They do. Many members here have competently made corrections on articles I've highlighted.

Wikipediocracy

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