Wikiconference USA - May 30 to June 1, 2014

[thekohser]

Wikiconference USA will be held at New York Law School, May 30 to June 1. Registration is free.

Who is going? I've reserved a space, no donation to the cause. I'll await the restraining order before deciding whether or not to actually attend.

We'll see how my proposed presentation goes over.

[Vigilant]

Wikiconference USA will be held at New York Law School, May 30 to June 1. Registration is free.

Who is going? I've reserved a space, no donation to the cause. I'll await the restraining order before deciding whether or not to actually attend.

We'll see how my proposed presentation goes over.

Is Oliver Keyes going? I need to get my throat punched.

[EricBarbour]

Is Oliver Keyes going? He needs to get his throat punched.

FTFY

Greg, if you do go to this thing, please shoot some video, so the rest of us can mock the partygoers.

[Bielle]

Wikiconference USA will be held at New York Law School, May 30 to June 1. Registration is free.

Who is going? I've reserved a space, no donation to the cause. I'll await the restraining order before deciding whether or not to actually attend.

We'll see how my proposed presentation goes over.

Looks like we need to sign up in support.

[Kumioko]

Has anyone seen this link? How desperate can Wikipedia be? How many yearly gatherings does it take for them to see that the project is dying and needs a major overhall.

[Vigilant]

Has anyone seen this link? How desperate can Wikipedia be? How many yearly gatherings does it take for them to see that the project is dying and needs a major overhall.

WO should pay an intern to go and take photos of every single attendee.

[Peryglus]

"Overhaul" and interns aren't paid.

[Zoloft]

"Overhaul" and interns aren't paid.

Some interns are paid.

[Kumioko]

Lol, yeah Wikipedia doesn't deserve good spelling.

[Vigilant]

"Overhaul" and interns aren't paid.

I always, always, always pay my interns...above minimum wage.

To do anything else makes one a major shitheel.

[thekohser]

Has anyone seen this link?

Yes, we've seen it, and that's where a mod can move this new thread.

[Kumioko]

Woops, sorry about that, I didn't see that.

[Alison]

Woops, sorry about that, I didn't see that.

It's all good Clickety-click ... and merged!

[thekohser]

We'll see how my proposed presentation goes over.

Obviously, it's going over like a lead balloon.

Seriously, only one interested party?

[Cla68]

If they ever hold one of these on the west coast, hopefully WordBomb could dust off his presentation detailing his experience with WP. Although most of administrators who gave him such a hard time have faded away, some of them are still around.

[Silent Editor]

We'll see how my proposed presentation goes over.

Obviously, it's going over like a lead balloon.

Seriously, only one interested party?

Don't feel too bad; I randomly checked a few other proposals, and there seem to be some with no interested parties.

[Kumioko]

In fact I couldn't find one with more than 3 and that was including the proposer. Having attended a good number of these type events in the past though, unless your an out of work college graduate recruited by the college ambassador program or work for the WMF, you stand a slim chance of getting in anyway.

[thekohser]

Anybody notice anything "peculiar" about the scheduled line-up of sessions?

[Versus]

Anybody notice anything "peculiar" about the scheduled line-up of sessions?

Reads like a snoozefest.

[Zoloft]

I don't see "Confessions of a paid editor" on the list.

[Kumioko]

I don't see much of anything other than the usual back patting. It looks like an excuse to travel myself and an utter waste of time and money.

[thekohser]

I don't see "Confessions of a paid editor" on the list.

You're getting warm.

[Kumioko]

For what its worth I don't see anything about dealing wiht abusive editors and admins either.

[Cedric]

Anybody notice anything "peculiar" about the scheduled line-up of sessions?

The only thing that stood out to me is that the paid editing talk is to be "moderated." I did not notice that qualification for any of the many other talks.

I don't even want to think of how they might "moderate" such a discussion. Even thinking about the potential for stupid here burns.

[Zoloft]

Anybody notice anything "peculiar" about the scheduled line-up of sessions?

The only thing that stood out to me is that the paid editing talk is to be "moderated." I did not notice that qualification for any of the many other talks.

I don't even want to think of how they might "moderate" such a discussion. Even thinking about the potential for stupid here burns.

This is a general open discussion on paid editing on Wikipedia. It will consist of a 10 minute introduction to the problems by Donald King (User:CorporateM), followed by a discussion from the floor moderated by David Goodman (User:DGG).

[thekohser]

Here's what gets my goat:

I see that a session entitled "Paid Editing Moderated Discussion" has been placed on the schedule for Friday at 4:30 PM. I note that nobody had added their name as an "Interested attendee". I note that the author of that proposal didn't even correctly name David King as a moderator (she has him as "Donald" King).

I see that my session entitled "Confessions of a paid editor" has not been placed on the schedule. I note that my session had three different people add their name as "Interested attendees". I see eight (8) "Open space" slots available during the Sunday "Unconference" calendar. It's nice to know that an empty room was preferable to the selection committee than having me talk as an expert on problems related to paid editing.

I am told that the conference scheduling team has completed the calendar. How was I told this? Well, two days ago, I received an e-mail from Richard Knipel (User:Pharos (T-C-L)), asking if I was still planning to attend the conference. (His e-mail was sent to dozens of recipients, not even blind-copied, so I wasn't "special" in getting this e-mail.)

I replied to Richard, saying that I would like to know why the panel was selected, but not my talk, even though my talk was rated more interesting than the panel, by a 3-0 score.

Richard's response was not to respond.

So, I e-mailed him again. Still no response. So, I e-mailed the entire list, asking if anyone had asked Richard about anything, and whether he had responded or not.

Surprise, surprise -- within 12 minutes, I got a response from Richard!

His reply, with Newyorkbrad copied:

Hi Greg,

Your presentation has not been accepted as a separate curated slot. Obviously, the program committee considers the number of on-wiki sign-ups as just one factor.

Ira will be in touch with you for further details.

Thanks,
Pharos

So, I put the same questions to Brad, plus a question about why I had been "handed off" by Pharos to Brad. Brad's reply:

Greg:

I believe the schedule for the conference is now final, including the selection of panels, so if your proposal isn't listed, it hasn't been selected. I wasn't on the selection committee.

I wouldn't put much stock in how many people signed up as interested attendees for the different proposed presentations. I don't think there was much, if any, publicity asking people to sign up (I only know of the sign-up feature from preparing my own proposals). As it happens, only one person has signed up for each of my two programs, and I happen to know that well more than one person will be attending.

Pharos did not give me a specific reason for asking that I be the one to communicate with you, but it is something that I might have volunteered to do in any case given that you and I have e-mailed before.

IBM/Newyorkbrad

I am issuing a new proposal. I would like to be added to the 4:30 panel on Friday, where I would participate with all reasonable civility and grace. Barring that, I will attend that discussion as an audience member, and I will make my voice heard in a way that will not be deemed "pleasant" by certain Wikipediots.

I'd appreciate any support and back-up, where you would call on the committee to add me to the 4:30 panel here.

[thekohser]

Oh, and it just got a lot worse -- a whole lot worse.

The chosen panel was only CREATED TWO DAYS AGO.

They literally must have taken a look at my proposal and said, we really ought to discuss paid editing, but we can't let Kohs have the floor. Go ask Dorothy Howard to throw together a paid editing panel discussion.



Yup, here's the proof.

My submission was entered January 30.

Applications and submissions were closed on May 7.

The schedule of sessions was posted on May 13, with the "panel" already penciled in.

Then finally on May 21, Dorothy adds her phantom late submission as a convenient link for the panel already in the schedule.

Is this the famous "transparency" that the Wikimedia Movement keeps telling us about?

[thekohser]

Is the above not disturbing to anyone else, and maybe I am over-reacting?

[mac]

Is the above not disturbing to anyone else, and maybe I am over-reacting?

Disturbing? Yes. Typical? Also, yes. Over-reacting? Maybe, but only because you expected them to be fair, and by now you should know better.

Everyone knows Kohs' (!) talk would be more insightful than Dorothy Howard's. Who is she anyway, and why is she selected for this talk?

[Vigilant]

Is the above not disturbing to anyone else, and maybe I am over-reacting?

Disturbing? Yes. Typical? Also, yes. Over-reacting? Maybe, but only because you expected them to be fair, and by now you should know better.

Everyone knows Kohs' (!) talk would be more insightful than Dorothy Howard's. Who is she anyway, and why is she selected for this talk?

Her qualifications are that "she is not Greg Kohs"...

[Triptych]

Is the above not disturbing to anyone else, and maybe I am over-reacting?

Don't let it get you down. It speaks poorly of them not you. It looks to me like your submission met all the quality standards (by the way I browsed your Powerpoint from your Rollins College presentation, very solid and nice looking too). So all systems were go until somebody in authority realized "wait, that's Greg Kohs, the notorious banned paid editor, Wikipediocracy villain, and Jimbo's arch-enemy," and then set about replacing you. But they don't really have anybody immediately on tap to do the job, so they throw together some to-be-determined moderated panel discussion.

So I give Wikiconference USA a big, sarcastic "bravo!" It's intentionally shooting itself in the foot and ripping off its attendees by rejecting the best person for the job.

[MZMcBride]

Who is going? I've reserved a space, no donation to the cause. I'll await the restraining order before deciding whether or not to actually attend.

I should be there on Saturday. As I recall, you regularly threaten to attend wiki events (you could've easily attended Wikimania in D.C., for example), but to my knowledge they've always been empty threats. I'd love to meet you in-person, but I'm holding out very little hope that you'll actually be in New York next weekend. Why you seem to revel in threatening to attend these events but never actually show your face at them is left as an exercise for the reader, I suppose.

[Kumioko]

Who is going? I've reserved a space, no donation to the cause. I'll await the restraining order before deciding whether or not to actually attend.

I should be there on Saturday. As I recall, you regularly threaten to attend wiki events (you could've easily attended Wikimania in D.C., for example), but to my knowledge they've always been empty threats. I'd love to meet you in-person, but I'm holding out very little hope that you'll actually be in New York next weekend. Why you seem to revel in threatening to attend these events but never actually show your face at them is left as an exercise for the reader, I suppose.

I have been to several myself including Wikimania (or at least part of it) last year. Some are better than others. Even when I wasn't banned I felt like a 5th wheel at a lot of the meetups.

[thekohser]

As I recall, you regularly threaten to attend wiki events (you could've easily attended Wikimania in D.C., for example), but to my knowledge they've always been empty threats. I'd love to meet you in-person, but I'm holding out very little hope that you'll actually be in New York next weekend. Why you seem to revel in threatening to attend these events but never actually show your face at them is left as an exercise for the reader, I suppose.

Though your disappointment is understandable, your characterization that I "never actually show my face" is somewhat unfair, MZ. I did plan tentatively to attend the Wikimania in Washington, DC; however, that very same week I found myself taking on a new position within the fastest-growing division of Comcast. My responsibility for a smooth transfer of my old position's duties to a new replacement, and simultaneously the transfer of an outgoing VP's budget duties to me did take precedence in my mind, over attending a Wikimania where there was still some question whether Jimbo would have police blocking my entry.

There was a Philadelphia meet-up that I offered to host at the Comcast Center one weekend, even getting advance authorization for use of a large conference room and its amenities, but when I learned that every attendee would have to provide a photo ID and have been put on a guest list 24 hours prior to entering the building, the other organizers balked at the plan, and they instead met in a windowless basement over at a local university.

And there was the Philadelphia chapter of the PRSA's special workshop talk given by Jake Orlowitz on May 14, 2012, at the Mission Grill at 1835 Arch Street. I attended that semi-private session with about 25 other professionals, and everything went quite nicely. I used the "Q & A" portion of the talk to disagree a bit with Jake's outlook on how PR firms can successfully engage on Wikipedia via Talk pages, but it was all very cordial.

Right now, I'm putting my attendance in New York on Friday at about 50% or 60% probability. If they had slated my talk into the official schedule, I would have been 100%. Will you be there? I'd definitely like to meet you in person.

[Kelly Martin]

they instead met in a windowless basement over at a local university.

Was it a fetid basement?

[thekohser]

they instead met in a windowless basement over at a local university.

Was it a fetid basement?

I believe it looked like this.

This is the evening view from the conference room I had booked at Comcast Center, but which was rejected.

[Triptych]

they instead met in a windowless basement over at a local university.

Was it a fetid basement?

I believe it looked like this.

This is the evening view from the conference room I had booked at Comcast Center, but which was rejected.

Man, they missed out on quite the view and no doubt furnishings and stuff. You said above some objected to being put on the guest list required by security. What do people usually do at these meet-ups? Address each other by username?

[EricBarbour]

What do people usually do at these meet-ups? Address each other by username?

The ones who are "prominent" or already know each other apparently use real names. Some of them are so paranoid they don't communicate with anyone else. Why they even show up is mysterious, almost as if they were attending to spy on the others. (Fair warning: I've personally never been to one but this is the impression I get from reading the accounts and minutes written by attendees; for hundreds of meetings, in fact.)

Wikimedia meetings are slightly like a university's chess club or a MENSA meeting. With a major exception: it's cultic, and criticism of the cult, the cult members or especially the leadership, is absolutely not permitted and drives them into a frothing rage. Few of the typical and popular "nerd gatherings" are as paranoiac as Wikimedia gatherings.

Literally, I've been told to "imagine a really weird Scientology social gathering". All that's missing are the FLAG uniforms. If the Wikipedians ever manage to invent a pseudomilitary uniform or costume for "official use", they will have finally reached that pinnacle of cultdom. Laugh if you must, but judging by the past histories of conventional cults, there's at least an even chance someone will invent a "Wikimedia Special Power Force" group, complete with rank and insigne.

[Kumioko]

they instead met in a windowless basement over at a local university.

Was it a fetid basement?

I believe it looked like this.

This is the evening view from the conference room I had booked at Comcast Center, but which was rejected.

Man, they missed out on quite the view and no doubt furnishings and stuff. You said above some objected to being put on the guest list required by security. What do people usually do at these meet-ups? Address each other by username?

Whats funny is they had to go through pretty rigid security at last years Wikimania here in DC and the names had to be submitted quite a ways in advance. In fact the Library of Congress (which cost something like $50, 000 for the evening meetup I hear) required everything but a blood type and urine sample prior to entry. All for a few cocktail shrimp and an up close and person with Mr Wales himself.

[Triptych]

Whats funny is they had to go through pretty rigid security at last years Wikimania here in DC and the names had to be submitted quite a ways in advance. In fact the Library of Congress (which cost something like $50, 000 for the evening meetup I hear) required everything but a blood type and urine sample prior to entry. All for a few cocktail shrimp and an up close and person with Mr Wales himself.

Ah, have you actually shook hands and met the guy then? Or just exchanged polite words or some questions in a group setting? Obviously Jimbo must meet a lot more editors than an editor meets Jimbos, but do you suppose he actually recalled you personally while he was advocating all this horrendous stuff at his talkpage about contacting your "ISP, employer or not?"

[MZMcBride]

Right now, I'm putting my attendance in New York on Friday at about 50% or 60% probability. If they had slated my talk into the official schedule, I would have been 100%. Will you be there? I'd definitely like to meet you in person.

(Greg and I just caught up via e-mail. It seems we'll likely miss each other this time, but I'm hopeful one day it'll work out.)

[Kelly Martin]

What do people usually do at these meet-ups? Address each other by username?

Of course. Many of them won't give their real names and will insist that you not take pictures of them.

[Kelly Martin]

there's at least an even chance someone will invent a "Wikimedia Special Power Force" group, complete with rank and insigne.

The Counter-Vandalism Unit (invented by Cool Cat/White Cat, broadly promoted by Essjay) used to have ranks and insignia, although I don't know if they actually wore uniforms or insignia while hulking over their keyboards in their mother's fetid basements. At some point the ranks disappeared, probably because they were absolutely embarrassing to everyone (except Cool Cat, who is incapable of feeling embarrassment) involved.

[Poetlister]

Wikimedia meetings are slightly like a university's chess club or a MENSA meeting.

I've never been a member of MENSA but I did play chess for my university. There is no comparison.

[thekohser]

There is no comparison.

Which assembly of humanity would you say is "worse"?

[Kumioko]

Whats funny is they had to go through pretty rigid security at last years Wikimania here in DC and the names had to be submitted quite a ways in advance. In fact the Library of Congress (which cost something like $50, 000 for the evening meetup I hear) required everything but a blood type and urine sample prior to entry. All for a few cocktail shrimp and an up close and person with Mr Wales himself.

Ah, have you actually shook hands and met the guy then? Or just exchanged polite words or some questions in a group setting? Obviously Jimbo must meet a lot more editors than an editor meets Jimbos, but do you suppose he actually recalled you personally while he was advocating all this horrendous stuff at his talkpage about contacting your "ISP, employer or not?"

Yeah I've met him at least twice. Once at Wikimania and once at the WMF HQ in San Francisco.

[Poetlister]

There is no comparison.

Which assembly of humanity would you say is "worse"?

Wikimedia meetings by many chalks.

[thekohser]

David Goodman responds to my inquiry about the origin of the "Paid Editing panel" that appeared on the conference calendar about one month after outside submissions were closed.

Dear Greg,

The panel is not an outside submission, but a planned event at the conference from the start. It is listed as a submission to facilitate scheduling. The two of us are the ones organizing it.

Dorothy Howard and David Goodman

--
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.

DGG on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG

Wikipedian-in-Residence,
New York Public Library for the Performing Arts

I've searched the WikiConference page histories, and I see zero evidence that this was a planned event "from the start".

[Triptych]

David Goodman responds to my inquiry about the origin of the "Paid Editing panel" that appeared on the conference calendar about one month after outside submissions were closed.

Dear Greg,

The panel is not an outside submission, but a planned event at the conference from the start. It is listed as a submission to facilitate scheduling. The two of us are the ones organizing it.

Dorothy Howard and David Goodman

--
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.

DGG on wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG

Wikipedian-in-Residence,
New York Public Library for the Performing Arts

I've searched the WikiConference page histories, and I see zero evidence that this was a planned event "from the start".

It looks funny, and it seems strangely late for Dorothy and David to get around to the organizing of it, and it's proved an understandable frustration to you. But no sense being further aggravated. Have you indicated to them that you're willing to participate on the panel?

[thekohser]

Have you indicated to them that you're willing to participate on the panel?

Of course, in multiple venues.

P.S. I am not "aggravated"; rather, "amused" by their lack of transparency in executing what appears to be political machinations.