Always improving

[Randy from Boise]

Too good not to share. Googled for the masthead of my old employer, The Christian Science Monitor, and up popped an informationish box informing me that John Yemma is the CSM's editor in chief. Could Wikipedia be the source of that, I wondered? You bet your sweet ass it is. The Christian Science Monitor (T-H-L).

Yemma was succeeded as editor in chief by my good mate Marshall Ingwerson in December 2013.

Updated, thanks.


t

[Kumioko]

If you want another item to improve, I found this earlier.

Template:VanderAa-AW (T-H-L) should probably read "This template adds.." vice "This temlate adds..."

[thekohser]

Updated, thanks.

With no reference citation... just taking the word of some guy you found on a Wikipedia criticism site. Good job, Tim. Way to keep up those high Wikipedia standards.

[Kumioko]

Updated, thanks.

With no reference citation... just taking the word of some guy you found on a Wikipedia criticism site. Good job, Tim. Way to keep up those high Wikipedia standards.

But "that guy" is none other than the great Dan Murphy. What could go wrong? :-)

[Randy from Boise]

Updated, thanks.

With no reference citation... just taking the word of some guy you found on a Wikipedia criticism site. Good job, Tim. Way to keep up those high Wikipedia standards.

You don't think that Dan fucking Murphy is presumably reliable?!? For shame, Greg!!!

RfB

P.S. Admittedly, his writing on this matter is "published to a blog"... You did check my edit note in the history, I presume. As you know, filling the infoboxes with footnotes isn't done much, reasonably enough.

[Randy from Boise]

If you want another item to improve, I found this earlier.

Template:VanderAa-AW (T-H-L) should probably read "This template adds.." vice "This temlate adds..."

I made sure to note that I was proxying for a blocked editor. Or are you banned? Oh, dear, I hope I don't end up going to ArbCom over this. </s>


t

[Poetlister]

You did check my edit note in the history, I presume. As you know, filling the infoboxes with footnotes isn't done much, reasonably enough.

Having a note in an edit summary is not very helpful. Suppose someone wants to check in a few months and your edit is buried in the history by another 100 edits or more, so is hard to find. If there aren't footnote in infoboxes, then logically everything in the box needs to be elsewhere in the article, duly sourced.

This is the sort of thing where we need the Philip Roth procedure. When he wanted an article about one of his books corrected, he wrote a letter to the New York Times which could then be quoted as a reliable source.

[Kumioko]

If you want another item to improve, I found this earlier.

Template:VanderAa-AW (T-H-L) should probably read "This template adds.." vice "This temlate adds..."

I made sure to note that I was proxying for a blocked editor. Or are you banned? Oh, dear, I hope I don't end up going to ArbCom over this. </s>


t

Well if you do get blocked or banned over what is a clearly non controversial improvement to the template then it only reflects that improving the encyclopedia is no longer what is important.

[Kumioko]

2nd Mechanized Brigade (Slovakia) (T-H-L) appears to have a broken references template, in addition to being a complete mess, if anyone is feeling froggy and wants to fix it.

[Kumioko]

VP-26 (T-H-L) has a broken template in the "The 1950s" section. That redlinked Uss template should be USS.

[AndyTheGrump]

VP-26 (T-H-L) has a broken template in the "The 1950s" section. That redlinked Uss template should be USS.

I'd be very surprised if the article wasn't a copyright violation, or at least an unacknowledged copy-paste, given that it was created in one edit as a 5000-word article. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =207198791

Edit: Most likely copied from a U.S. Navy website here: http://www.public.navy.mil/airfor/vp26/ ... story.aspx Unless we assume that the USN uses Wikipedia as an unacknowledged source...

[Kumioko]

VP-26 (T-H-L) has a broken template in the "The 1950s" section. That redlinked Uss template should be USS.

I'd be very surprised if the article wasn't a copyright violation, or at least an unacknowledged copy-paste, given that it was created in one edit as a 5000-word article. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =207198791

Edit: Most likely copied from a U.S. Navy website here: http://www.public.navy.mil/airfor/vp26/ ... story.aspx Unless we assume that the USN uses Wikipedia as an unacknowledged source...

I totally agree. If it is copied from the Navy site though then it's not a copyright violation since it's on a government website and the work of a government employee. It is bad writing though.

[DanMurphy]

Saw on the google search preview this morning that the lede to Wikipedia's Mercantilism (T-H-L) article is plagiarized from Britannica. Been that way since at least April 2014. Google ranks the Wikipedia article higher than Britannica's. Of course.

[DanMurphy]

Details!

callicoon.PNG

[Ming]

Details!

callicoon.PNG

The smaller number is a bit of 3 year old vandalism which was fixed in stages, the final edit coming back at the end of November. Interestingly, the article never actually said "167 at the 2010 census"; this seems to be some synthesis of Google's.

[hættulegt]

Google has its sidebar with the 167 number from the article Callicoon (CDP), New York (T-H-L) whereas the top result is linking to Callicoon, New York (T-H-L) (pop 3,057). A New York town and a CDP are different things.

[AndyTheGrump]

Google has its sidebar with the 167 number from the article Callicoon (CDP), New York (T-H-L) whereas the top result is linking to Callicoon, New York (T-H-L) (pop 3,057). A New York town and a CDP are different things.

So the little Callicoon is part of the big Callicoon? If so, a map showing the limits of both might help. If only to determine whether the photos in the little Callicoon article are actually showing it, rather than the town, which seems more likely to me. I can't imagine many population 167 hamlets have a 'downtown' and a 'business district'.

Edit: Having tried to figure this out from looking at maps, I give up. Evidently U.S. geographers and/or legislators have an entirely different understanding of what words like 'hamlet' and 'town' mean than what this literal-minded Brit does. The 'business district' seems to be in the hamlet, and from what I can figure out, the 'town' consists mostly of surrounding woodland and farmland. Though I may well have got it all backwards, and should probably go back to trying to figure out why the British rail network can't make up its mind whether the Ashford which isn't in Kent is in Surrey or Middlesex. Though I suspect that even the inhabitants aren't quite sure, since Middlesex no longer exists, and they are on the wrong side of the river to be in Surrey...

[lonza leggiera]

Google has its sidebar with the 167 number from the article Callicoon (CDP), New York (T-H-L) whereas the top result is linking to Callicoon, New York (T-H-L) (pop 3,057). A New York town and a CDP are different things.

So the little Callicoon is part of the big Callicoon? ...

No, apparently not. According to the Wikipedia article on Callicoon, New York (T-H-L), the CDP named Callicoon is part of a different town called Delaware, New York (T-H-L). Judging from the coordinates given for these locations in their Wikipedia articles, Delaware (NY) and Callicoon (CDP) are about 10–15km southwest of Callicoon (NY).

Edit: There seems to be something fishy about one or more of these articles. On my first cursory inspection I didn't notice that the purported coordinates Wikipedia gives for Delaware (NY) place it about 3.3', or about 6km, east of Calicoon (CDP), and about 3km east of the nearest built-up area, another small town labelled "Hortonville" in Google maps. A Google maps search for "Delaware, NY, USA" drops a pin in the middle of a dairy farm a couple of km to the north of the location given by Wikipedia.

The coordinates Wikipedia gives for Callicoon (CDP) place it fairly close to a small town labelled "Callicoon" in Google maps, and those it gives for Callicoon place this latter about 3km east of another small town labelled "Callicoon Center" on Google maps, about 15km north-east of Google maps' Callicoon. It would also appear that Wikipedia's Callicoon (CDP) is Google maps' Callicoon, and Wikipedia's Callicoon (town) is Google maps' Callicoon Center.

Further edit: As Andy surmised, the confusion seems to stem from British and Australian (in my case) misunderstanding of the term "town", as it is apparently used in New York state. Apparently the "town" of Delaware is a "municipal corporation" comprising several small communities, including both Callicoon (CDP) and Hortonville. Apparently Wikipedia's Callicoon (CDP) is Google maps' Callicoon, and Wikipedia's Callicoon (NY) is another "town" (i.e. municipal corporation) which includes Google maps' Callicoon Center as one of its component communities.

[Carcharoth]

Further edit: As Andy surmised, the confusion seems to stem from British and Australian (in my case) misunderstanding of the term "town", as it is apparently used in New York state. Apparently the "town" of Delaware is a "municipal corporation"

A local area with a council, then. They disliked the term township for some reason.

This illustrates the peril of people 'helpfully' adding geographic co-ordinates without a reliable source, sometimes by just using Google Maps to 'find' the place in question. That can work most of the time, but falls down badly in cases like this.

[lonza leggiera]

Further edit: As Andy surmised, the confusion seems to stem from British and Australian (in my case) misunderstanding of the term "town", as it is apparently used in New York state. Apparently the "town" of Delaware is a "municipal corporation"

A local area with a council, then. They disliked the term township for some reason.

This illustrates the peril of people 'helpfully' adding geographic co-ordinates without a reliable source, sometimes by just using Google Maps to 'find' the place in question. That can work most of the time, but falls down badly in cases like this.

Well, the coordinates themselves seem to be pretty much correct, with the qualification that those of each "town" are just those of a fairly arbitrary point near the centre of the region constituting the town. What would be helpful for us foreigners who don't know what a "town" is would be for the articles on them to include maps of the town boundaries in relation to the neighbouring "towns" and to the county as a whole:

[/size]

[Ming]

The bigger driving issue is that "town" in some states is a unit in the local government hierarchy, and in others may or may not be. If you pick a town name in Maryland, it may or may not have its own government, and therefore may or may not have any particular borders. In the DC suburbs drawing lines between Silver Spring and Wheaton and Glenmont is impossible: you can tell when you are in the center of each but in between it's all undifferentiated inner suburb. So people use the CDPs as proxies, even though the census borders can be, um, perplexing. Then there's Laurel, which is incorporated, except that the incorporated part is all in PG County; the whole sort-of-urban area slops over into the three adjacent counties, but since these aren't part of Laurel proper, we have articles on the CDPs of Maryland City, Maryland (T-H-L) and North Laurel, Maryland (T-H-L), the latter of which appears to encompass a great deal of empty space and various subdivisions floating free of the town core. But the census-ites are in their way as bad as the USRD crowd, so CDPs are what we get, not articles based on actual geography.

[lonza leggiera]

The bigger driving issue is that "town" in some states is a unit in the local government hierarchy, and in others may or may not be. ...

Yes. An even bigger help for those like me, who are silly enought to think they already know more or less what a town is, would be for the first sentences of these articles to say something like:

Delaware is one of the 15 municipal subdivisions[1] of Sullivan County, New York, USA. …

1. In New York State, these municipal subdivisions are referred to as "towns".

[Ming]

Well, here's a classic CDP no-where: Ilchester, Maryland (T-H-L)

Ilchester is an unincorporated community and census-designated place in Howard County, Maryland, United States. The population was 23,476 at the 2010 census.

Ilchester is in fact a nothing at all other than some random piece of Ellicott City/Columbia sprawl arbitrarily sawn off by the Census Bureau. Ages ago (which you can kind of intuit from the article, reading between the lines) there was a B&O station there; there was also a Catholic women's college up the hill, which is where most of the hits on the town name come from, because the haunted places people love the spooooky ruins. Well, the train station has been gone for decades, the last business was a paper recycler which has been closed for at least a decade (that's where the geocoords land; it's at the NE corner of the CDP), and there never was anything like what you might think a small town looked like; it was really never more than a railroad station name. Looking at the map of the CDP, it lumps a piece of Columbia with all the undifferentiated outer suburbs across I-95 from Elkridge, which is how they get 20K residents of a place that doesn't really exist that way.

[Hex]

Creme Puff (cat) (T-H-L)

Creme Puff (August 3, 1967 – August 6, 2005) was an American cat who died aged 38 years and 3 days (or 168 cat years[dubious – discuss]).

"Cat years" text inserted in 2015 by something calling itself Alumnum (T-C-L). Request for proof of cat years inserted this October by an IP editor.

[Poetlister]

Creme Puff (cat) (T-H-L)

Creme Puff (August 3, 1967 – August 6, 2005) was an American cat who died aged 38 years and 3 days (or 168 cat years[dubious – discuss]).

"Cat years" text inserted in 2015 by something calling itself Alumnum (T-C-L). Request for proof of cat years inserted this October by an IP editor.

This is the most reliable-looking source I can find.

There’s no reliable scientific way to calculate the relationship between human and cat years, but it’s generally agreed that the first two years of a cat’s life are roughly equal to the first 25 of a human’s, and after this, each additional year is around four ‘cat years’. This means if your cat is six years old, their equivalent cat age in human years will be around 41.

From this, we can calculate that the equivalent of 38 cat years is 25 + 4x(38-2) = 169 human years, though such a calculation is presumably original research.

[Johnny Au]

Mangoe removed the cat-year equivalent, as cat years are equivalent to human years, which are almost equivalent to the Earth's orbit around the Sun.

[thekohser]

The Wikipedia articles about towns can be really lackluster in terms of historical background. Take, for example, Laurinburg, North Carolina. Which of these "History" notes do you feel to be more helpful to the reader, and then guess which one is from Wikipedia and which one is from the city's own website?

History

The John Blue House, Mag Blue House, Central School, Dr. Evan Alexander Erwin House, E. Hervey Evans House, Thomas J. Gill House, Laurel Hill Presbyterian Church, Laurinburg Commercial Historic District, Stewart-Hawley-Malloy House, and Villa Nova are listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

...or...

History

Laurinburg was incorporated in 1877, but is said to have had its beginning as far back as 1785 when the first families settled on the present town site. The name of the town was first written with an h -- Laurinburgh -- and was pronounced by some, "Laur-in-boro." The post office was first called Laurinburgh, but later the "h" was dropped. The "Laurin," of course, came from the prominent McLaurin family. As late as 1840, there were only three dwellings, a store, a saloon, and a few shacks in the town. A private school was established in 1852 and the town seemed to grow rapidly after that. As a matter of fact, the school was named Laurinburgh High School, and it was from the school that the town took its name. For some reason, the act incorporating Laurinburg used still another spelling, "Laurenburg."

[Johnny Au]

Rougned Odor (T-H-L)

This article has an interesting history about his given name (and Odor is an uncommon surname in Venezuela and does not mean "bad smell" in Spanish (that would be "olor")). His younger brother (also in the Texas Rangers organization) has the same given name and surname as well.

The one who punched Bautista has the middle name of Roberto, while the younger brother has the middle name of Jose.

Before Rougned Roberto Odor punched Bautista, much of the article consisted of the etymology of his given name.

[Poetlister]

The Wikipedia articles about towns can be really lackluster in terms of historical background. Take, for example, Laurinburg, North Carolina. Which of these "History" notes do you feel to be more helpful to the reader, and then guess which one is from Wikipedia and which one is from the city's own website?

History

The John Blue House, Mag Blue House, Central School, Dr. Evan Alexander Erwin House, E. Hervey Evans House, Thomas J. Gill House, Laurel Hill Presbyterian Church, Laurinburg Commercial Historic District, Stewart-Hawley-Malloy House, and Villa Nova are listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

...or...

History

Laurinburg was incorporated in 1877, but is said to have had its beginning as far back as 1785 when the first families settled on the present town site. The name of the town was first written with an h -- Laurinburgh -- and was pronounced by some, "Laur-in-boro." The post office was first called Laurinburgh, but later the "h" was dropped. The "Laurin," of course, came from the prominent McLaurin family. As late as 1840, there were only three dwellings, a store, a saloon, and a few shacks in the town. A private school was established in 1852 and the town seemed to grow rapidly after that. As a matter of fact, the school was named Laurinburgh High School, and it was from the school that the town took its name. For some reason, the act incorporating Laurinburg used still another spelling, "Laurenburg."

Wikipedia editors would never allow non-encyclopaedic wording like "As a matter of fact" and "For some reason".

[Johnny Au]

"As a matter of fact" and "For some reason" definitely should not be used, as they constitute "editorializing."

[thekohser]

We frequently hear about how Wikipedia is actually "very good" at incorporating breaking news into encyclopedia articles.

Back in late November 2016, if you looked at the news about Sling TV (T-H-L), you would have seen these stories from multiple reliable news sources:




It's now well over a month since that story was so amply covered in the media, but if you go to Wikipedia to learn more about the Sling TV carriage agreement with Comcast, you won't see even a mention. What you do get is mention of a July 2015 disagreement between Comcast's NBC unit and Sling TV. Good thing corporate editors are shunned on Wikipedia, so that the reader is treated to voluntarily-contributed content that is as "current" as 18 months ago!

[Poetlister]

I expect that it was regarded as not worth noting due to WP:UNDUE

[thekohser]

From Indian River Bay (T-H-L):

Well documented cancer clusters are all around the bay. Various causes can be found on the web regarding this area.

No sources given, and the source referenced in the next sentence to follow is a broken link, and if you find the intended report, there is not one mention of cancer. So, you're on your own to follow the author's suggestion to "find on the web" these well-documented cases.

I found this report, which shows that there is a higher-than-surrounding-area incidence of lung cancer around Indian River, but the report itself notes: "This analysis has significant limitations. No adjustments were made for other potentially relevant factors, such as smoking incidence..."



Thank you Wikipedia, for perpetuating this scholarly assessment from noted cancer expert, IP 140.153.24.26, since April 2016.

[DanMurphy]

Someone I know made a joke about gullible people thinking the Hollister Co. (T-H-L) clothing brand is based in a California beach community. Looked it up, landed on Wikipedia. Of course this adorns the article.

A pair of Hollister jeans worn by a young teenage girl.

A cesspool. Ever was, ever will be.

[thekohser]

It has a rivalry exists with [[QEBH]].

Great job of "Copyedit" by Wikipedia administrator, Ground Zero (T-C-L).

It's in the lede of the article, viewed about 250 times since it was "improved"... not one of those readers bothered to care.

[Johnny Au]

Luanda (T-H-L)

Take a look at this gem in the end of the second paragraph of the "Renewal and enlargement" section:

Both ventures are, however, still under way in 2011(2015 now!)(2016 now!).

Note that there's actually recursive superscripts in the actual article.

[thekohser]

Wikipedia is great, because well into the middle of March 2017, you can ask Wikipedia which TV station Tammie Souza (T-H-L) works for, and it will definitively tell you WFLD in Chicago, Illinois. Also, you will not learn from this biography that Ms. Souza played a substantial role in the movie Assault of the Killer Bimbos (T-H-L).

[Poetlister]

Luanda (T-H-L)

Take a look at this gem in the end of the second paragraph of the "Renewal and enlargement" section:

Both ventures are, however, still under way in 2011(2015 now!)(2016 now!).

Note that there's actually recursive superscripts in the actual article.

It went to (2017 now!). However, our well-known friend fixed it and even commented "Sorry to destroy the edifice of nested superscripts (noted at the unnameable site)". Should we just retitle the thread "Calling Yngvadottir"?

[Cedric]

Should we just retitle the thread "Calling Yngvadottir"?

I prefer "Yngvadottir, Clean-Up on Aisle 3."

[thekohser]

Click the map coordinates in the sidebar infobox on Virgin Gorda. Does it take you to a map centered on Virgin Gorda? No, it does not. You can thank Hlucho (T-C-L) for that, since 23 January 2014 -- even though the correct coordinate template was right there already for him/her to copy...

Code: Select all

{{coord|18|28|54.8|N|64|23|20.95|W|type:isle_region:VG|display=title}}

With at least 5,000 page views a month, that means that not one of 190,000 readers noticed and cared enough to make a correction. Weird, even though I love this island, I am also not feeling motivated to make the correction.

[Ming]

Coordinates are almost never verified, much less cited, and likewise it is particularly difficult to get bogus places deleted. It is amazing how much crap there is in GRIS when compared against what the global mapping services show, but that doesn't stop a huge fight every time someone actually checks and finds that there is no there there.

[Ming]

And in the blow-by-blow update department, we have this bit of news in Mallet locomotive (T-H-L):

The Western Maryland Scenic Railroad reached an agreement with the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Museum for Chesapeake & Ohio 2-6-6-2 #1309 to be restored to operation by May 2016. #1309 was the last domestic steam locomotive to be built by the Baldwin Locomotive Works. The locomotive was partially disassembled and loaded onto heavy flatcars on July 10, 2014 in Baltimore. The load will travel via CSX to Cumberland where restoration will take place. When completed, #1309 will become the largest operable Mallet on the East Coast.

In fact, the "load" has already arrived and work is well under way, and if you go to the WMSR site you can see that they've announced it will start running in July. Ming knew about the move because Ming caught a video of the train hitting a crossbuck in Brunswick which some idiot knocked over. Will some intrepid editor keep the story going and add the announcement to the article?

[Peter Damian]

Since 19:29, 23 February 2017 with the comment ‘I fixed an incorrect year’.

I found it while researching for my book, with a note to check that date. Fortunately I knew that 600 was far too early. Others might have been led astray.

[Poetlister]

Since 19:29, 23 February 2017 with the comment ‘I fixed an incorrect year’.

I found it while researching for my book, with a note to check that date. Fortunately I knew that 600 was far too early. Others might have been led astray.

Fixed, presumably by an attentive reader of this forum.

[Zoloft]

Since 19:29, 23 February 2017 with the comment ‘I fixed an incorrect year’.

I found it while researching for my book, with a note to check that date. Fortunately I knew that 600 was far too early. Others might have been led astray.

Fixed, presumably by an attentive reader of this forum.

Yes, by Wbm1058 (T-C-L) who is apparently not a member here.

[thekohser]

Anybody here ever hear of Sebastian Maniscalco (T-H-L)? Funny comedian. His Wikipedia biography gets over 650 page views per day. Article has been published by Wikipedia since 2008.

Zero reference citations.

[Poetlister]

Anybody here ever hear of Sebastian Maniscalco (T-H-L)? Funny comedian. His Wikipedia biography gets over 650 page views per day. Article has been published by Wikipedia since 2008.

Zero reference citations.

Maybe that's because a quick Google doesn't reveal any helpful sites, which makes you wonder how notable he is. The article does link to his personal website and his IMDb page but of course neither is a reliable source.

[thekohser]

Maybe that's because a quick Google doesn't reveal any helpful sites, which makes you wonder how notable he is.

Gee whiz, you sound like a dyed-in-the-wool Wikipediot. Are you okay? Try this, man.

[thekohser]

Today's news (Q1 2017)...

Comcast's ongoing diversification strategy continues to pay off as the cable giant lands more business customers and hits a $6 billion annual revenue run rate.
...Business services revenue [for the quarter] was $1.49 billion, up 13.6 percent from a year ago.

Don't worry, Wikipedia is right on it. Comcast Business (T-H-L):

In 2013, Comcast Business generated $3.2 billion in revenue...

Only 13 quarters behind in keeping the reader advised of the sum of human knowledge!

[Johnny Au]

Today's news (Q1 2017)...

Comcast's ongoing diversification strategy continues to pay off as the cable giant lands more business customers and hits a $6 billion annual revenue run rate.
...Business services revenue [for the quarter] was $1.49 billion, up 13.6 percent from a year ago.

Don't worry, Wikipedia is right on it. Comcast Business (T-H-L):

In 2013, Comcast Business generated $3.2 billion in revenue...

Only 13 quarters behind in keeping the reader advised of the sum of human knowledge!

Don't forget about census data!

They're almost always behind on Wikipedia.