Wikimania 2014

[Vigilant]

Jesus Christ they are BOTH terrible speakers!

http://new.livestream.com/wikimania/saturday2014

My ears!
My eyes!

[Zoloft]

Jimmy Wales' closing speech is available at the following URL in the top window. He comes on at the 6:59:30 mark, give or take.

http://new.livestream.com/wikimania/sunday2014

The video about WP's potential impact in Africa which preceeds him is worth watching, I will add.

RfB

Here is the link to the video stream.

[Kelly Martin]

If the photographer does actually file the lawsuit, this could come possibly come in handy as evidence of the frivolity and contempt that WMF approaches things like this, where real-life people get hurt and it's just a big joke to them, such as Wales who is of course a trustee.

And, more importantly, an agent, which means that the WMF can and will be held liable for his tortious conduct. I imagine that the WMF has D&O liability insurance, so Jimmy himself won't pay, but the WMF's D&O rate will go up if they do pay out on the D&O policy; they might even get cancelled.

The interesting thing is choosing venue for the suit. The photographer, as I recall, is American, but the photographs were fixated in Indonesia, and the tortious act itself took place in the UK by the commission of an expatriate American. That gives him a fairly broad choice of venues: the US, the UK, and Indonesia are all viable. It would be funny as hell for the photographer to hale Jimbo and the WMF to Indonesia to stand trial there for copyright infringement, especially as the judgment of an Indonesian court on such a matter would be enterable as a matter of course as against either Jimbo's UK or US-based assets or the WMF's assets, wherever they might be located.

[Peter Damian]

The video about WP's potential impact in Africa which preceeds him is worth watching, I will add.

I hated it. The tag line was that there are two things: mobiles and Wikipedia. All they needed was money to connect these things. The implication was that an entire continent has to rely on Wikipedia as a source of knowledge, to the exclusion of anything else.

[Stierlitz]

Is Sue Gardner still on the WMF payroll then?

Exxxxxxxxxcellent question. I noticed that.

Mr. Kohs, you have your research project for the week...


RfB

This music starts playing in the background:

[thekohser]

Is Sue Gardner still on the WMF payroll then?

Exxxxxxxxxcellent question. I noticed that.

Mr. Kohs, you have your research project for the week...

That would take 20 seconds, not a week. Her LinkedIn says her current role is "Special advisor, Wikimedia Foundation". If you think she's doing that for free, or that the WMF would ever consent to *not* paying her for something like that, then you have a screw loose. OF COURSE she is still on the WMF payroll -- and I suspect that even months after she finally finds a paying job as "what I'll be doing next", she will still be on the WMF payroll. Granted, it's probably at half- or one-third salary, but they are definitely paying her.

[Triptych]

Is Sue Gardner still on the WMF payroll then?

Exxxxxxxxxcellent question. I noticed that.

Mr. Kohs, you have your research project for the week...

That would take 20 seconds, not a week. Her LinkedIn says her current role is "Special advisor, Wikimedia Foundation". If you think she's doing that for free, or that the WMF would ever consent to *not* paying her for something like that, then you have a screw loose. OF COURSE she is still on the WMF payroll -- and I suspect that even months after she finally finds a paying job as "what I'll be doing next", she will still be on the WMF payroll. Granted, it's probably at half- or one-third salary, but they are definitely paying her.

WMF is a charity, so it has to disclose this stuff or does it? Perhaps at the end of the year? I'd be interested to see which of the arbs and administrators they flew into London and paid for fine accommodations and walk-around money.

EDIT: I saw where someone wrote our contributor Anthonyhcole (who is not an administrator) flew in from Australia.Maybe he'd tell us if he got compensated or if he applied to?

[thekohser]

WMF is a charity, so it has to disclose this stuff or does it?

Not especially. If Gardner is not one of the top-paid employees or contractors in 2014, there is no mandatory disclosure required by the Form 990, if I am not mistaken.

[eagle]

WMF is a charity, so it has to disclose this stuff or does it?

Not especially. If Gardner is not one of the top-paid employees or contractors in 2014, there is no mandatory disclosure required by the Form 990, if I am not mistaken.

Correct. She is not a Director, and she may not be one of the top-paid employees in 2014.

It is very telling that she has not announced her new job following her WMF departure.

[thekohser]

WMF is a charity, so it has to disclose this stuff or does it?

Not especially. If Gardner is not one of the top-paid employees or contractors in 2014, there is no mandatory disclosure required by the Form 990, if I am not mistaken.

Correct. She is not a Director, and she may not be one of the top-paid employees in 2014.

It is very telling that she has not announced her new job following her WMF departure.

It's not so much "telling" as it is simply following a long tradition. Anybody here can point to several different "former WMF bigwigs", and what they ended up doing after the WMF gig ended.

Brad Patrick - Went on to do: Law Office of Bradford A. Patrick PA (with big client, Poseidon Undersea Resorts)

Danese Cooper - Went on to do: daneseWorks (with big client, numenta/nupic)

Mike Godwin - Went on to do: Global Internet Policy Project at Internews

Carolyn Doran - Went on to do: Time in the slammer

[Poetlister]

I believe that if wikipedia maybe could help to educate citizens of the third word countries, it could only hurt education in the developed countries. Students don't go to libraries instead they go to wikipedia, they do not read books instead they read articles written by a bunch of anonymous nobodies, they are not doing their own research instead they are relying on the research that is done for them. Nobody who is educated on wikipedia would ever become a researcher.

I don't suppose many people here would think it desirable for students to read Wikipedia instead of, or even as well as, proper textbooks (other than articles I wrote of course). But then, we're not of the body.

[thekohser]

Talk about unwanted lighting and shadow effects... here's the lady who introduced Jimmy Wales' closing speech. (Who is that, by the way?)

[Randy from Boise]

I believe that if wikipedia maybe could help to educate citizens of the third word countries, it could only hurt education in the developed countries. Students don't go to libraries instead they go to wikipedia, they do not read books instead they read articles written by a bunch of anonymous nobodies, they are not doing their own research instead they are relying on the research that is done for them. Nobody who is educated on wikipedia would ever become a researcher.

I don't suppose many people here would think it desirable for students to read Wikipedia instead of, or even as well as, proper textbooks (other than articles I wrote of course). But then, we're not of the body.

But I do think that many people on here would think it better if students in particularly poor countries had access to Wikipedia instead of........ nothing whatsoever.

I think the Wikipedia Zero idea is excellent for such places.

RfB

[Peter Damian]

EDIT: I saw where someone wrote our contributor Anthonyhcole (who is not an administrator) flew in from Australia.Maybe he'd tell us if he got compensated or if he applied to?

I am sure he can answer that. As far as I know - we met and discussed a number of things while he was here - he paid for his own flight, and stayed with family in London.

[Vigilant]

I believe that if wikipedia maybe could help to educate citizens of the third word countries, it could only hurt education in the developed countries. Students don't go to libraries instead they go to wikipedia, they do not read books instead they read articles written by a bunch of anonymous nobodies, they are not doing their own research instead they are relying on the research that is done for them. Nobody who is educated on wikipedia would ever become a researcher.

I don't suppose many people here would think it desirable for students to read Wikipedia instead of, or even as well as, proper textbooks (other than articles I wrote of course). But then, we're not of the body.

But I do think that many people on here would think it better if students in particularly poor countries had access to Wikipedia instead of........ nothing whatsoever.

I think the Wikipedia Zero idea is excellent for such places.

RfB

Wikipedia Zero, like all other tiered access plans, are the camel's nose under the tent for allowing ISPs to pick and choose winners and losers in the long run.

If you allow free access to a webpage, don't you make it nearly impossible for a startup in the same business to make it, regardless of merit?

They might be the first, but they won't be the last and they will have broken the internet forever.

Think about it, Tim.

[Peter Damian]

[More memories] I sat down and chatted with Charles Matthews for a while. At the end of the conversation he bitterly reproached me for having publicly called him 'arrogant'. I didn't remember doing so, but might well have done, so I didn't challenge it.

Then it turned out he was wandering around the campus telling people I had called him arrogant. I looked at my notes just now and can't find anything like that. Can anyone else remember?

I note he once called me 'adversarial', for daring to complain about the way WMUK publicly posted that I was practically an axe-murderer and a danger to life and limb of their members. Sorry for that, Charles.

[Peter Damian]

It is very telling that she has not announced her new job following her WMF departure.

I chatted to her briefly on the 'Hi Sue how's it going what are you up to' lines and she was not forthcoming about that either.

[Randy from Boise]

I believe that if wikipedia maybe could help to educate citizens of the third word countries, it could only hurt education in the developed countries. Students don't go to libraries instead they go to wikipedia, they do not read books instead they read articles written by a bunch of anonymous nobodies, they are not doing their own research instead they are relying on the research that is done for them. Nobody who is educated on wikipedia would ever become a researcher.

I don't suppose many people here would think it desirable for students to read Wikipedia instead of, or even as well as, proper textbooks (other than articles I wrote of course). But then, we're not of the body.

But I do think that many people on here would think it better if students in particularly poor countries had access to Wikipedia instead of........ nothing whatsoever.

I think the Wikipedia Zero idea is excellent for such places.

RfB

Wikipedia Zero, like all other tiered access plans, are the camel's nose under the tent for allowing ISPs to pick and choose winners and losers in the long run.

If you allow free access to a webpage, don't you make it nearly impossible for a startup in the same business to make it, regardless of merit?

They might be the first, but they won't be the last and they will have broken the internet forever.

Think about it, Tim.

Come now, you're not naive — do you really think the internet is a meritocracy?

Comcast and Google know better.

RfB

[Randy from Boise]

It is very telling that she has not announced her new job following her WMF departure.

I chatted to her briefly on the 'Hi Sue how's it going what are you up to' lines and she was not forthcoming about that either.

So what IS she up to???

I trust WMF about as much as I trust Exxon or the National Security Agency or the Republican National Committee at this point...

RfB

[Vigilant]

I believe that if wikipedia maybe could help to educate citizens of the third word countries, it could only hurt education in the developed countries. Students don't go to libraries instead they go to wikipedia, they do not read books instead they read articles written by a bunch of anonymous nobodies, they are not doing their own research instead they are relying on the research that is done for them. Nobody who is educated on wikipedia would ever become a researcher.

I don't suppose many people here would think it desirable for students to read Wikipedia instead of, or even as well as, proper textbooks (other than articles I wrote of course). But then, we're not of the body.

But I do think that many people on here would think it better if students in particularly poor countries had access to Wikipedia instead of........ nothing whatsoever.

I think the Wikipedia Zero idea is excellent for such places.

RfB

Wikipedia Zero, like all other tiered access plans, are the camel's nose under the tent for allowing ISPs to pick and choose winners and losers in the long run.

If you allow free access to a webpage, don't you make it nearly impossible for a startup in the same business to make it, regardless of merit?

They might be the first, but they won't be the last and they will have broken the internet forever.

Think about it, Tim.

Come now, you're not naive — do you really think the internet is a meritocracy?

Comcast and Google know better.

RfB

You think adding yet another monetary burden on those not chosen by ISPs is a GOOD IDEA?
The medium needs to be neutral.

Answer the question instead of JimboPivoting.

[Vigilant]

AHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 73815.html

Hi all!

Both the Wikimania flags are missing. The poles have come back, but not the
flag itself! We wanted to get one of these signed by everyone who helped
with Wikimania and display it in the UK office so we are a bit sad that
they're missing. They probably vanished in the final drunken packing last
night.

I'm sure there was no ill intent, but if anyone knows where one of them is,
please drop me an email - or put it in the post to FREEPOST WIKIPEDIA and
we'll pay the postage.

No questions asked!

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Peace, love and petty theft!

[Jim]

AHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 73815.html

Hi all!

Both the Wikimania flags are missing. The poles have come back, but not the
flag itself! We wanted to get one of these signed by everyone who helped
with Wikimania and display it in the UK office so we are a bit sad that
they're missing. They probably vanished in the final drunken packing last
night.

I'm sure there was no ill intent, but if anyone knows where one of them is,
please drop me an email - or put it in the post to FREEPOST WIKIPEDIA and
we'll pay the postage.

No questions asked!

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Peace, love and petty theft!

Haha. I can't be bothered finding a link, but this ineffectual little Cavalry bloke has been posting "let's all love each other and just not fight" stuff to the Wikimedia-l BatProtect shitfight. Funnier even than the fact that everyone just pointedly ignores him is that each one line post he makes carries an approx 10 line signature consisting of his official position as part-time WMUK pencil monitor, address, phone number, school locker number and his terms and conditions. He is priceless.

Editor note: New readers are reminded that this is the man who thought: Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (T-C-L) would be a rockingly good idea for a username...

[mac]

AHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wi ... 73815.html

Hi all!

Both the Wikimania flags are missing. The poles have come back, but not the
flag itself! We wanted to get one of these signed by everyone who helped
with Wikimania and display it in the UK office so we are a bit sad that
they're missing. They probably vanished in the final drunken packing last
night.

I'm sure there was no ill intent, but if anyone knows where one of them is,
please drop me an email - or put it in the post to FREEPOST WIKIPEDIA and
we'll pay the postage.

No questions asked!

Richard Symonds
Wikimedia UK
0207 065 0992

Peace, love and petty theft!

This made my day. The "Vigilant Report" keeps me from having to mine these gems from the numerous lists. Thank you.

[thekohser]

I trust WMF about as much as I trust Exxon or the National Security Agency or the Republican National Committee at this point...

And yet you work -- hard! -- to build up the platform the feeds the WMF all of their money. And you do it voluntarily with your leisure time! Doesn't that bother you?

[Midsize Jake]

I sat down and chatted with Charles Matthews for a while. At the end of the conversation he bitterly reproached me for having publicly called him 'arrogant'. I didn't remember doing so, but might well have done, so I didn't challenge it.

Then it turned out he was wandering around the campus telling people I had called him arrogant. I looked at my notes just now and can't find anything like that. Can anyone else remember?

You called him "conceited." More accurately, you wrote that he was one of the most conceited people you'd ever met, which is hardly surprising given who and what he is. I don't think there's any question that he's ridiculously, even comically arrogant, just like all the rest of them. Don't even give it a second thought.

[Randy from Boise]

I think the Wikipedia Zero idea is excellent for such places.
RfB

Wikipedia Zero, like all other tiered access plans, are the camel's nose under the tent for allowing ISPs to pick and choose winners and losers in the long run.

If you allow free access to a webpage, don't you make it nearly impossible for a startup in the same business to make it, regardless of merit?

They might be the first, but they won't be the last and they will have broken the internet forever.

Think about it, Tim.

Come now, you're not naive — do you really think the internet is a meritocracy?

Comcast and Google know better.

RfB

You think adding yet another monetary burden on those not chosen by ISPs is a GOOD IDEA?
The medium needs to be neutral.

Answer the question instead of JimboPivoting.

The internet as you depict it is already long, long gone. It is fruitless worrying about it, it was inevitable, it is the way that capitalism and ownership rights work... If WMF can carve out a little haven of free WP mobile access for people who need it in places that need it, more power to them. It beats the current situation. I'm not sure how to be more clear about that.

RfB

[Vigilant]

I think the Wikipedia Zero idea is excellent for such places.
RfB

Wikipedia Zero, like all other tiered access plans, are the camel's nose under the tent for allowing ISPs to pick and choose winners and losers in the long run.

If you allow free access to a webpage, don't you make it nearly impossible for a startup in the same business to make it, regardless of merit?

They might be the first, but they won't be the last and they will have broken the internet forever.

Think about it, Tim.

Come now, you're not naive — do you really think the internet is a meritocracy?

Comcast and Google know better.

RfB

You think adding yet another monetary burden on those not chosen by ISPs is a GOOD IDEA?
The medium needs to be neutral.

Answer the question instead of JimboPivoting.

The internet as you depict it is already long, long gone. It is fruitless worrying about it, it was inevitable, it is the way that capitalism and ownership rights work... If WMF can carve out a little haven of free WP mobile access for people who need it in places that need it, more power to them. It beats the current situation. I'm not sure how to be more clear about that.

RfB

There are other deals out there that offer free phone/ISP service to access a single website?
Please enlighten me.

[Randy from Boise]

There are other deals out there that offer free phone/ISP service to access a single website?
Please enlighten me.

The internet is already pay-to-play, whether that means getting decent search engine results or fastest access to the pipes. If WMF can carve out a free zone for WP content on mobile phones, hurray.

t

[Vigilant]

There are other deals out there that offer free phone/ISP service to access a single website?
Please enlighten me.

The internet is already pay-to-play, whether that means getting decent search engine results or fastest access to the pipes. If WMF can carve out a free zone for WP content on mobile phones, hurray.

t

JimboPivot.
Try again.
Now bolded for added ease.

[Randy from Boise]

There are other deals out there that offer free phone/ISP service to access a single website?
Please enlighten me.

The internet is already pay-to-play, whether that means getting decent search engine results or fastest access to the pipes. If WMF can carve out a free zone for WP content on mobile phones, hurray.

t

JimboPivot.
Try again.
Now bolded for added ease.

I honestly don't know what you're looking for from me. I like the concept of Wikipedia Zero. You clearly think there is something ominous about it. Whatever...

t

[Vigilant]

There are other deals out there that offer free phone/ISP service to access a single website?
Please enlighten me.

The internet is already pay-to-play, whether that means getting decent search engine results or fastest access to the pipes. If WMF can carve out a free zone for WP content on mobile phones, hurray.

t

JimboPivot.
Try again.
Now bolded for added ease.

I honestly don't know what you're looking for from me. I like the concept of Wikipedia Zero. You clearly think there is something ominous about it. Whatever...

t

Mods, please delete this sad attempt to get a single honest answer to my question.

[Randy from Boise]

There are other deals out there that offer free phone/ISP service to access a single website?
Please enlighten me.

The internet is already pay-to-play, whether that means getting decent search engine results or fastest access to the pipes. If WMF can carve out a free zone for WP content on mobile phones, hurray.

t

JimboPivot.
Try again.
Now bolded for added ease.

I honestly don't know what you're looking for from me. I like the concept of Wikipedia Zero. You clearly think there is something ominous about it. Whatever...

t

Mods, please delete this sad attempt to get a single honest answer to my question.

Either that or you can explain what the hell you're badgering me about... I'm at a loss...

t

[thekohser]

"Daddy, are you pregnant too?"

For the record, Jimbo is aware of his current tubbitude, and he will work on it next year, he hopes... just like that pending trip to Kazakhstan to award the $5,000 to the Kazakh imperial government head of WikiBilim.

[Zoloft]

[More memories] I sat down and chatted with Charles Matthews for a while. At the end of the conversation he bitterly reproached me for having publicly called him 'arrogant'. I didn't remember doing so, but might well have done, so I didn't challenge it.

Then it turned out he was wandering around the campus telling people I had called him arrogant. I looked at my notes just now and can't find anything like that. Can anyone else remember?

I note he once called me 'adversarial', for daring to complain about the way WMUK publicly posted that I was practically an axe-murderer and a danger to life and limb of their members. Sorry for that, Charles.

I can't speak for anywhere else, but searches under your name here find nothing of the sort.

[Cla68]

"Daddy, are you pregnant too?"

For the record, Jimbo is aware of his current tubbitude, and he will work on it next year, he hopes... just like that pending trip to Kazakhstan to award the $5,000 to the Kazakh imperial government head of WikiBilim.

Fortunately for the cause of losing weight, fork drops can be done anywhere, at anytime.

[Kiefer.Wolfowitz]

Lila looked hardly better.

I mean [...] what are two white strips hanging out on her left side?
I had difficulties concentrating on what she was talking about because of these strips.

Were you wondering whether she was a tribesman of the orthodox persuasion or was sporting Mormon magic undies?

[Kiefer.Wolfowitz]

A few months ago I saw a TV advertisement about weight loosing pills.
In the advertisement a little boy looks at his pregnant mom's tummy, and asks why it is so big.
The mom explains to the boy that she is pregnant. The boy then looks at his dad's tummy, and... asks:
"Daddy, are you pregnant too?"
I wonder why this picture reminded that advertisement to me:ermm:


Now this image.What in the world is that disgusting colored spot at the upper part (around the neck) of Mr. Wales t-shirt, and who came up with an idea to write "Wikimania London" over tummy? It would have looked much more in place, if it were placed on the chest, would it not?


And it is funny... Right after I wrote this comment about the t-shirt I watched Jon Davies (Chief Executive Wimedia UK) speech at the opening ceremony. He was talking about challenges of making t-shirts "you are wearing" After exclaiming "what possibly could go wrong with t-shirts?" Mr.Davies presented the table (below), explained how much time and efforts were spent on t-shirts.
I personally believe that everything that could have gone wrong with t-shirts did get wrong, but another thing, it is rather scary that the charity spends time and money on such things...

Jimbo is a freaking college graduate, so he should have learned in his management and HR classes that image is important for projecting charisma and leadership. So, he shows up to the most important Wikimania in years looking like this? What the heck is the matter with this guy?

More and more, Jimbo looks like George Costanza in full sweatpants regalia.

[Notvelty]

"Daddy, are you pregnant too?"

For the record, Jimbo is aware of his current tubbitude, and he will work on it next year, he hopes... just like that pending trip to Kazakhstan to award the $5,000 to the Kazakh imperial government head of WikiBilim.

Fortunately for the cause of losing weight, fork drops can be done anywhere, at anytime.

I find that, whenever I drop my fork, I pick it up again with food on it.

It's a curse.

[Kiefer.Wolfowitz]

Lila looks like David Gerard.

You're a harsh man.

Not even David Gerard looks like David Gerard. It would be too cruel, even for him...



Anyway, the nose is slightly wrong...

[Kiefer.Wolfowitz]

I sat down and chatted with Charles Matthews for a while. At the end of the conversation he bitterly reproached me for having publicly called him 'arrogant'. I didn't remember doing so, but might well have done, so I didn't challenge it.

Then it turned out he was wandering around the campus telling people I had called him arrogant. I looked at my notes just now and can't find anything like that. Can anyone else remember?

You called him "conceited." More accurately, you wrote that he was one of the most conceited people you'd ever met, which is hardly surprising given who and what he is. I don't think there's any question that he's ridiculously, even comically arrogant, just like all the rest of them. Don't even give it a second thought.

Charles has always been a nice fellow, in my experience.

[thekohser]

[More memories] I sat down and chatted with Charles Matthews for a while. At the end of the conversation he bitterly reproached me for having publicly called him 'arrogant'. I didn't remember doing so, but might well have done, so I didn't challenge it.

Then it turned out he was wandering around the campus telling people I had called him arrogant. I looked at my notes just now and can't find anything like that. Can anyone else remember?

I note he once called me 'adversarial', for daring to complain about the way WMUK publicly posted that I was practically an axe-murderer and a danger to life and limb of their members. Sorry for that, Charles.

I can't speak for anywhere else, but searches under your name here find nothing of the sort.

You have to search for "conceited".

I'll add here, on my own behalf, that my correspondence with Charles R. Matthews left me feeling that he was one of the ten most arrogant people with whom I have ever exchanged e-mails.

[Midsize Jake]

You have to search for "conceited".

There you go. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a Wikipedia bigwig got the word wrong, got the poster wrong, blamed one of us for something someone else said that we didn't necessarily agree with, or simply lied outright. In fact, it would be more like the 21,345th time.

But that goes with the territory. Like I said earlier, don't even give it a second thought - if Matthews wasn't arrogant, wasn't a wiki-narcissist, and didn't have a dangerously weak ego facade, he wouldn't even remember having been insulted in any specific way in the first place, because he'd be confident enough in his own moral/ethical virtue to not care about how others perceive him. In fact, he's not that confident; none of them are; none of them could be.

And Matthews is actually one of the better ones. Not saying much, to be sure, but there you have it.

[Zoloft]

Good lord. What an insubstantial thing to get worked up over about. If I collected what Wikipedians and Anti-Wikipedians have said about my presence here and dumped it in Matthew's lap, I suppose he'd die of outrage.



Hell, even just using what ya'll here have said to me and then apologized for. ...and what I have said to people and apologized for.

Hm, it really is Mos Eisley (T-H-L).

Perhaps you should send Matthews a nice pocket mirror by way of apology, Ed.

[sparkzilla]

There are other deals out there that offer free phone/ISP service to access a single website?
Please enlighten me.

The internet is already pay-to-play, whether that means getting decent search engine results or fastest access to the pipes. If WMF can carve out a free zone for WP content on mobile phones, hurray.

t

JimboPivot.
Try again.
Now bolded for added ease.

I honestly don't know what you're looking for from me. I like the concept of Wikipedia Zero. You clearly think there is something ominous about it. Whatever...

Mods, please delete this sad attempt to get a single honest answer to my question.

Either that or you can explain what the hell you're badgering me about... I'm at a loss...

Part of what he his is saying is: why does Wikipedia think it can get a free pass against any other content site? What is so special about Wikipedia that it has to carve exemptions for itself? Why are other reference sites not included in these free plans? Why is Facebook (a for-profit site) included?

Please take a minute to consider that when sites use their political power to gain market advantage it leads to the entrenchment of poor quality content (bad for the reader), and makes it harder for other sites to succeed (bad for everyone).

[Randy from Boise]

Part of what he his is saying is: why does Wikipedia think it can get a free pass against any other content site? What is so special about Wikipedia that it has to carve exemptions for itself? Why are other reference sites not included in these free plans? Why is Facebook (a for-profit site) included?

Please take a minute to consider that when sites use their political power to gain market advantage it leads to the entrenchment of poor quality content (bad for the reader), and makes it harder for other sites to succeed (bad for everyone).

Because they thought of trying and pushed for it.

I think the utility of WP vs. Facebook is self-evident, the question of one being a non-profit and the other being a for-profit notwithstanding.

"Market" implies the buying and selling of a commodity. There is no "market" for Wikipedia content.

RfB

[sparkzilla]

"Market" implies the buying and selling of a commodity. There is no "market" for Wikipedia content.

Please elaborate.

[Midsize Jake]

"Market" implies the buying and selling of a commodity. There is no "market" for Wikipedia content.

Yeah, I think we should just go ahead and delete this part of the thread, to prevent Mr. Randy from being further embarrassed.

RfB, your perspective seems to be utterly, totally, completely LOCKED into that of a Wikipedian. The market is not for editors, "content contributors," or even articles, it's for websites. Try to think like a non-Wikipedian for once in your life: You don't think Wikipedia has competitors? You don't think it should? What are you even saying?

The fact that Wikipedia has become market-dominant by being free-of-charge (and tax-advantaged, and Google-preferred, let's not forget those) doesn't mean it doesn't compete in a market at all. It just means that consumers like free and big and Google-preferred stuff more than responsible and accurate and non-Google-preferred stuff, at least in this particular market.

[Randy from Boise]

"Market" implies the buying and selling of a commodity. There is no "market" for Wikipedia content.

Yeah, I think we should just go ahead and delete this part of the thread, to prevent Mr. Randy from being further embarrassed.

RfB, your perspective seems to be utterly, totally, completely LOCKED into that of a Wikipedian. The market is not for editors, "content contributors," or even articles, it's for websites. Try to think like a non-Wikipedian for once in your life: You don't think Wikipedia has competitors? You don't think it should? What are you even saying?

The fact that Wikipedia has become market-dominant by being free-of-charge (and tax-advantaged, and Google-preferred, let's not forget those) doesn't mean it doesn't compete in a market at all. It just means that consumers like free and big and Google-preferred stuff more than responsible and accurate and non-Google-preferred stuff, at least in this particular market.

There is no market since there is no commodity bought and sold. WP is not being run as a "loss leader" for a commercial product either, it is not a valuable commodity being "dumped" under the cost of production — when we contribute, we sign away all rights, even to those of commercial reproduction. Trust me, I'm in no danger of being embarrassed by other people's inability to understand what a market is...

This seems to be a hot-button issue that cuts deep with the Death To Wikipedia crowd; six billion smartphones and there goes the "market" because free WP will have a dominant position. This intrigues me: could it mean the forthcoming death of the Death to Wikipedia movement?

To the plight of commercial encyclopedias cut out of the equation by an inability to compete with "free" and "advertising free," I can only respond one way: "boo fucking hoo."

RfB

[Midsize Jake]

There is no market since there is no commodity bought and sold.

Are you completely mental? If Mr. Sparkzilla had been referring to sales, he would have written "sales," like this:

Please take a minute to consider that when sites use their political power to increase sales it leads to the entrenchment of poor quality products...

See the difference?

Ferchrissake man, get out while you still have a shred of dignity left.

Trust me, I'm in no danger of being embarrassed by other people's inability to understand what a market is...

That doesn't mean you do, in fact, understand it, does it?

To the plight of commercial encyclopedias cut out of the equation by an inability to compete with "free" and "advertising free," I can only respond one way: "boo fucking hoo."

Only it's not just commercial encyclopedias, is it.

[Notvelty]

"Market" implies the buying and selling of a commodity. There is no "market" for Wikipedia content.

Please elaborate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =262127800