Wikimania 2014

[Peter Damian]

It appears they realistically projected the revenues, but it looks like they underestimated the costs.

It's normally the other way round, although I note Notvelty's comment above about 'unforeseen' costs.

Some of the biggest expenses are those which are "known" but are incurred as a result of believing that they are things that must be done at a conference and/or that they are paid for by conference organisers.

Go to a big, tier 1 event (say the world's biggest mining conference, AIMEX) and you can dine out and get shlozzled on expensive stuff every day for free if you are of a mind. But each such trip to the bar is handled by a different sponsor or delegate company and the funds for that often come out of a separate marketing or corporate entertaining budget. In some cases, it 's claimed as part of the personal expenses claim by some CEO or other.

This isn't visible to the average punter or junior event person.

I don't follow this. If the sponsor is paying for the hospitality, why would the event organisers also be paying for it?

[thekohser]

I don't follow this. If the sponsor is paying for the hospitality, why would the event organisers also be paying for it?

I believe Notvelty is simply saying that if the WMUK had done a better job of getting corporate sponsors to pay for stuff (as they do at "real" conferences that are run professionally), they wouldn't have found themselves in so much debt over this one conference.

[Notvelty]

It appears they realistically projected the revenues, but it looks like they underestimated the costs.

It's normally the other way round, although I note Notvelty's comment above about 'unforeseen' costs.

Some of the biggest expenses are those which are "known" but are incurred as a result of believing that they are things that must be done at a conference and/or that they are paid for by conference organisers.

Go to a big, tier 1 event (say the world's biggest mining conference, AIMEX) and you can dine out and get shlozzled on expensive stuff every day for free if you are of a mind. But each such trip to the bar is handled by a different sponsor or delegate company and the funds for that often come out of a separate marketing or corporate entertaining budget. In some cases, it 's claimed as part of the personal expenses claim by some CEO or other.

This isn't visible to the average punter or junior event person.

I don't follow this. If the sponsor is paying for the hospitality, why would the event organisers also be paying for it?

What Greg said. But the key is that many relationships with sponsors are often not readily apparent to junior event planners or to delegates. If this sort of person then goes on to organise their own event, they believe that certain things are "expected" but don't know how to arrange for the payment for them.

An excellent example is drinks and canapes. Now, the first hour or two is paid for and even novices know that some group needs to pay for this. They'll get dud prices, of course, but as much as it's inflate, it's a known cost.

But then, how many events have you been to where there wasn't some sort of post-drinks and dinner? An experienced planner knows who to talk to, who (or what company) might be the patron of that event and how to get a good deal from venues. They know that these things often come out of a separate budget amount.

Someone inexperienced thinks it's something the organisers pay for and then budgets at the same rate at the canape package. Wrong. Stuffing this up for 1000 people can see you go over budget by USD50k quite easily and 50k pounds without breaking much of a sweat.

Now this may well have not been the case, but there are so many traps like that for the inexperienced. Even very intelligent people can find themselves out of pocket by large sums as a result of bad, albeit well-meaning advice.

[Carcharoth]

Very interesting comments from Notvelty in this thread.

I have helped organise events for volunteer organisations, but they were small ones (200-500 people at most). Organising anything bigger is big step up. I was at LonCon in August as well, and the differences between the two events were apparent (Worldcons tend to have very experienced people bidding for them and running them). The bit about venues jacking up the costs if you don't keep them to a cost specified in a signed contract is very true.

Does anyone know how the costs for this Wikimania compared to other costs and whether other Wikimanias had the same effect? Is hosting Wikimania a bit like the Olympics? Prestige but usually an overall loss because costs can balloon out of control?

[Vigilant]

Very interesting comments from Notvelty in this thread.

I have helped organise events for volunteer organisations, but they were small ones (200-500 people at most). Organising anything bigger is big step up. I was at LonCon in August as well, and the differences between the two events were apparent (Worldcons tend to have very experienced people bidding for them and running them). The bit about venues jacking up the costs if you don't keep them to a cost specified in a signed contract is very true.

Does anyone know how the costs for this Wikimania compared to other costs and whether other Wikimanias had the same effect? Is hosting Wikimania a bit like the Olympics? Prestige but usually an overall loss because costs can balloon out of control?

So, why does every wiki convention seem to keep making the same mistakes?

Has "the community" thought about hiring professionals with actual work experience and success for such specialized events?

[Randy from Boise]

Very interesting comments from Notvelty in this thread.

I have helped organise events for volunteer organisations, but they were small ones (200-500 people at most). Organising anything bigger is big step up. I was at LonCon in August as well, and the differences between the two events were apparent (Worldcons tend to have very experienced people bidding for them and running them). The bit about venues jacking up the costs if you don't keep them to a cost specified in a signed contract is very true.

Does anyone know how the costs for this Wikimania compared to other costs and whether other Wikimanias had the same effect? Is hosting Wikimania a bit like the Olympics? Prestige but usually an overall loss because costs can balloon out of control?

So, why does every wiki convention seem to keep making the same mistakes?

Has "the community" thought about hiring professionals with actual work experience and success for such specialized events?

You'd think that WMF could put a convention organizer on staff and that they would pretty much pay for their salary by avoiding stupid newbie mistakes that are repeated year after year by volunteers who are in over their heads.

RfB

[Vigilant]

Very interesting comments from Notvelty in this thread.

I have helped organise events for volunteer organisations, but they were small ones (200-500 people at most). Organising anything bigger is big step up. I was at LonCon in August as well, and the differences between the two events were apparent (Worldcons tend to have very experienced people bidding for them and running them). The bit about venues jacking up the costs if you don't keep them to a cost specified in a signed contract is very true.

Does anyone know how the costs for this Wikimania compared to other costs and whether other Wikimanias had the same effect? Is hosting Wikimania a bit like the Olympics? Prestige but usually an overall loss because costs can balloon out of control?

So, why does every wiki convention seem to keep making the same mistakes?

Has "the community" thought about hiring professionals with actual work experience and success for such specialized events?

You'd think that WMF could put a convention organizer on staff and that they would pretty much pay for their salary by avoiding stupid newbie mistakes that are repeated year after year by volunteers who are in over their heads.

RfB

ROI is one event.

[DanMurphy]

Very interesting comments from Notvelty in this thread.

I have helped organise events for volunteer organisations, but they were small ones (200-500 people at most). Organising anything bigger is big step up. I was at LonCon in August as well, and the differences between the two events were apparent (Worldcons tend to have very experienced people bidding for them and running them). The bit about venues jacking up the costs if you don't keep them to a cost specified in a signed contract is very true.

Does anyone know how the costs for this Wikimania compared to other costs and whether other Wikimanias had the same effect? Is hosting Wikimania a bit like the Olympics? Prestige but usually an overall loss because costs can balloon out of control?

So, why does every wiki convention seem to keep making the same mistakes?

Has "the community" thought about hiring professionals with actual work experience and success for such specialized events?

You'd think that WMF could put a convention organizer on staff and that they would pretty much pay for their salary by avoiding stupid newbie mistakes that are repeated year after year by volunteers who are in over their heads.

RfB

ROI is one event.

Sigh. They did. I mean, in theory and stuff.

Ellie Young, the WMF's conference coordinator working with the organizers, responded to these issues: according to her, being late is "not uncommon for large events like these, and it doesn't appear to have deterred people from registering", and PayPal is now being accepted for the registration costs.

Adding:

Please join me in welcoming Ellie Young, who is taking on the role of
Conference Coordinator as an annual contract with WMF.[1]

As you may know, WMF's support for Wikimania in recent years has been
spread across a variety of staff members who have other core
responsibilities. With this new contract, we're creating a single point of
contact to act as liaison between WMF and the Wikimania organizing team, to
ensure that we're able to provide the host team with focused support where
help from WMF is needed.

Ellie brings with her a lot of experience in event planning for open
culture communities. She worked as Executive Director of USENIX
Association for over 20 years, where she and her team supported several
international conferences hosted by volunteers each year.[2] She also
currently serves on The Ada Initiative's Board of Advisors and has been an
activist for the democratization of educational materials most of her life.

[Notvelty]

Very interesting comments from Notvelty in this thread.

I have helped organise events for volunteer organisations, but they were small ones (200-500 people at most). Organising anything bigger is big step up. I was at LonCon in August as well, and the differences between the two events were apparent (Worldcons tend to have very experienced people bidding for them and running them). The bit about venues jacking up the costs if you don't keep them to a cost specified in a signed contract is very true.

Does anyone know how the costs for this Wikimania compared to other costs and whether other Wikimanias had the same effect? Is hosting Wikimania a bit like the Olympics? Prestige but usually an overall loss because costs can balloon out of control?

I suspect that you might have approached it as more of a big meeting (appropriately) than as a "conference". As a result, would I be right in saying that catering beyond lunch sandwiches and tea/coffee, and "special fun things" were not prominent in what you organised? And that you arranged for it to be in a major city where attendees could sort out their own accommodation and held at a university or other facility to reduce AV costs?

Smart moves for a volunteer gig... keep it at a "community" level, rather than go corporate.

[Notvelty]

You'd think that WMF could put a convention organizer on staff and that they would pretty much pay for their salary by avoiding stupid newbie mistakes that are repeated year after year by volunteers who are in over their heads.

RfB

You'd think they could hire some competent engineers too...

The idea's right - I'm not sure it's going to work with that mob though.

[Notvelty]

Adding:

Please join me in welcoming Ellie Young, who is taking on the role of
Conference Coordinator as an annual contract with WMF.[1]

As you may know, WMF's support for Wikimania in recent years has been
spread across a variety of staff members who have other core
responsibilities. With this new contract, we're creating a single point of
contact to act as liaison between WMF and the Wikimania organizing team, to
ensure that we're able to provide the host team with focused support where
help from WMF is needed.

Ellie brings with her a lot of experience in event planning for open
culture communities. She worked as Executive Director of USENIX
Association for over 20 years, where she and her team supported several
international conferences hosted by volunteers each year.[2] She also
currently serves on The Ada Initiative's Board of Advisors and has been an
activist for the democratization of educational materials most of her life.

She was also at the EFF from 2011.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/11/w ... llie-young

Ellie comes to EFF in the role of Special Assistant to Executive Director Shari Steele, and she will work on financial planning as well as on development and operational activities at EFF.

I'm inclined to be non-judgemental about Ellie, though. Having a look at previous USENIX conferences, I suspect that overruns were the result of other people (with delusions of grandeur and millions of dollars) ignoring her advice. Good, simple advice like "London's a big city with an Underground network - so long as we don't book it during a major international conference it can manage to accommodate 2000 people without us interfering. That's right, we aren't major"; "no, it's a volunteer organisation, we put it on for an hour for people who directly helped organise, that's enough"; "if you want a fancy coffee, walk 2 meters outside and buy one yourself or grab one from the percolator right there, you don't need a machine and baristas on tap"; "there is nothing wrong with Arnott's Assorted, eat them Ironically if you have to"; and, of course "just talk a bit louder and use a Go-Pro - they can see the big projector fine, we're not making a motion picture here".