ScottishFinnishRadish goes on a Tban rampage

[FelinaLavandula]

Can someone tban andre on this website too?

[Elinruby]

Andre, dude. Stop.

Stop making me agree with you lol. I am not over the wtf about the nails

[MrErnie]

Andre, dude. Stop.

Stop making me agree with you lol. I am not over the wtf about the nails

I can’t get over that either. That was an eye opener. I am thoroughly triggered by that.

[Elinruby]

Andre, dude. Stop.

Stop making me agree with you lol. I am not over the wtf about the nails

I can’t get over that either. That was an eye opener. I am thoroughly triggered by that.

Gah. Can't argue with that

[Arishok]

With yet another admin weighing in favor of lifting, nableezy’s appeal now looks like it’s on track for success.

[andre]

yes, johnuniq, very compelling evidence by levi about how nableezy called another editor's work garbage and made them feel lesser and other

[andre]

sorry, jake, peace be unto you, and namaste
i will go in peace, peace be unto you all

[Vigilant]

sorry, jake, peace be unto you, and namaste
i will go in peace, peace be unto you all

Just post better.

[nableezy]

sorry, jake, peace be unto you, and namaste
i will go in peace, peace be unto you all

Just post better.

Preferably learning how to use the quote post function when responding to one, and also by combining your thoughts into a single post instead of three spaced fourteen seconds apart.

But really though, the thread on these bans and appeals has morphed way out of proportion to its importance, this almost has as many pages as the Beeblebrox suspension thread. Sure, one solid page is (now) "people here cant read", but thats still like 4.8 pages too long.

[Zoll]

Iban between andre(van) and nableezy will solve the problem.

[Randy from Boise]

yes, johnuniq, very compelling evidence by levi about how nableezy called another editor's work garbage and made them feel lesser and other

FACTS > FEELINGS

t

[Ryuichi]

Iban between andre(van) and nableezy will solve the problem.

Here, there, or both?

[Black Kite]

I had a funny feeling Black Kite was going to weigh in and support Nableezy. His shift from Corbett enabler, to whatever you want to call him now, has been beautiful to watch. Two completely different editors.

I have no skin in the game, but Levivich's evidence is persuasive, for me. Your mileage may of course vary. As mentioned previously on this thread, though, there are a number of ARBPIA editors that should probably have been in line for a TBAN before Nableezy.

[Zoll]

I had a funny feeling Black Kite was going to weigh in and support Nableezy. His shift from Corbett enabler, to whatever you want to call him now, has been beautiful to watch. Two completely different editors.

I was just gonna say, "Nableezy is the new Corbett."

The spice must flow.

Who's Corbett?

[Zoll]

I had a funny feeling Black Kite was going to weigh in and support Nableezy. His shift from Corbett enabler, to whatever you want to call him now, has been beautiful to watch. Two completely different editors.

I have no skin in the game, but Levivich's evidence is persuasive, for me. Your mileage may of course vary. As mentioned previously on this thread, though, there are a number of ARBPIA editors that should probably have been in line for a TBAN before Nableezy.

Just out curiosity, care to name any? And why haven't they been Tbanned yet. Say what you want, but Nableezys' conduct was on the verge of a Tban, if it had continued. If other editors are worse in your mind, then they've definitely crossed the line into Tban territory.

[Black Kite]

Just out curiosity, care to name any? And why haven't they been Tbanned yet. Say what you want, but Nableezys' conduct was on the verge of a Tban, if it had continued. If other editors are worse in your mind, then they've definitely crossed the line into Tban territory.

No, I'm not going to give you a laundry list on a public page for what should be obvious reasons, but I'd say that I don't think the biggest issue at ARBPIA is the established editors such a number that SFR topic-banned. The same problem arises at ARBIPA, which I am more familiar with (indeed I'm looking at the edits of one such editor right now).

It's the "in and out" editors who descend on hot button articles, work in concert to avoid 1RR, and then disappear until the next time. Sometimes they go too far and get "caught" as you can see from the Arbiration enforcement page, but IMO they are far more disruptive than the "regulars". Some are probably socks; many are clearly not.

[ScotFinnRadish]

As mentioned previously on this thread, though, there are a number of ARBPIA editors that should probably have been in line... No, I'm not going to give you a laundry list on a public page for what should be obvious reasons, but I'd say that I don't think the biggest issue at ARBPIA is the established editors such a number that SFR topic-banned.

This is what bothers me about this situation. Disagreeing with the topic ban is fine. I get it, Nableezy is a long term contributor who does some good work. I obviously believe that it is warranted, but reasonable people disagree on things all the time. However, a bunch of people have said "Oh, there are a bunch of people who are obviously disruptive, and if you just look into it you'll see just how obvious it is. Obviously, I won't provide names or diffs of disruptive editing."

[nableezy]

This is what bothers me about this situation. Disagreeing with the topic ban is fine. I get it, Nableezy is a long term contributor who does some good work. I obviously believe that it is warranted, but reasonable people disagree on things all the time. However, a bunch of people have said "Oh, there are a bunch of people who are obviously disruptive, and if you just look into it you'll see just how obvious it is. Obviously, I won't provide names or diffs of disruptive editing."

Off the top of my head, Homerethegreat for basically being a propagandist, Dovidroth for proxying, טבעת-זרם for disruptive editing and meatpuppetry, Zanahary for meatpuppetry, and on my side of the wall, oops security barrier, probably Coffeeandcrumbs and Trilletrollet for being generally unable or unwilling to separate their feelings from their comments.

But since you’re here, and I can’t really ask this at AE, why did you raise the comment about Andres emailing Dovidroth at AE? Are you of the belief that the truth of an accusation has no bearing on its disruptiveness?

Also, more abstractly, it seems like you’ve taken the appeal as an attack on you or your authority. It isn’t, and I’m sorry if I made it feel that way, it certainly was not my intention and even here I’ve defended you and your actions, including banning me, to people who have made it about you. I said I hope you continue to try to manage this mess and I do, even if it results in another ban for me.

[ScotFinnRadish]

This is what bothers me about this situation. Disagreeing with the topic ban is fine. I get it, Nableezy is a long term contributor who does some good work. I obviously believe that it is warranted, but reasonable people disagree on things all the time. However, a bunch of people have said "Oh, there are a bunch of people who are obviously disruptive, and if you just look into it you'll see just how obvious it is. Obviously, I won't provide names or diffs of disruptive editing."

Off the top of my head, Homerethegreat for basically being a propagandist, Dovidroth for proxying, טבעת-זרם for disruptive editing and meatpuppetry, Zanahary for meatpuppetry, and on my side of the wall probably Coffeeandcrumbs and Trilletrollet for being generally unable or unwilling to separate their feelings from their comments.

But since you’re here, and I can’t really ask this at AE, why did you raise the comment about Andres emailing Dovidroth at AE? Are you of the belief that the truth of an accusation has no bearing on its disruptiveness?

Also, more abstractly, it seems like you’ve taken the appeal as an attack on you or your authority. It isn’t, and I’m sorry if I made it feel that way, it certainly was not my intention and even here I’ve defended you and your actions, including banning me, to people who have made it about you. I said I hope you continue to try to manage this mess and I do, even if it results in another ban for me.

The possibility (likelihood? near-certainty?) of the off-wiki coordination is definitely part of the disruptiveness, but that is in Arbcom's hands. I don't have the tools to look into that, and when I reached out to an Arb I was advised that any actions I took had to be backed up by on-wiki evidence. That's also the reason I haven't taken some other actions, but hopefully we'll see some movement on some things soon, once the election stuff calms down.

I really don't take it as an attack on my authority, and like Bradv, I generally like you. I don't have any issues with you personally, and I didn't like sanctioning you. My concern, though, was trying to reduce disruption in the topic area while I continue trying to clean it up. I really don't mind when people appeal my actions, I'm not going to be correct all the time, I'm not infallible.

When it comes to topic bans for propaganda, that is tough to do as an admin because about the time I have read enough sources to come to my own subjective conclusion about which ones I trust, which I don't, which academic publishers are acceptable as fact and which require attribution, and what the correct POV is for the topic area I'm way too involved to take any actions. Take for example this edit by Homere and this revert. The revert is incorrect on it's face, it violates lead follows body and synth. As an admin I can't revert the revert because them I'm involved for expressing editorial opinion and being involved in an editing dispute in the topic, I can't warn for a content issue because I've then expressed an editorial opinion and am involved. You've used the "but they're misbehaving/wrong/pov pushing" defense before, so how many "overlook misbehavior" points to I give Homere for being correct on this content issue while the person bringing him to two noticeboards is reverting him?

And just a clarification from AE, I'm not sure if I was unclear about it, but the diff with your Arminden isn't saying your actions there were bad, but that you should have been following the advice you were handing out. A touch of the ol' "physician heal thyself," if you will.

[nableezy]

I really don't take it as an attack on my authority, and like Bradv, I generally like you. I don't have any issues with you personally, and I didn't like sanctioning you. My concern, though, was trying to reduce disruption in the topic area while I continue trying to clean it up. I really don't mind when people appeal my actions, I'm not going to be correct all the time, I'm not infallible.

That last set of diffs don’t seem like it lol, god damn dude May 2022? And are you even looking at what I’m responding to?

And just a clarification from AE, I'm not sure if I was unclear about it, but the diff with your Arminden isn't saying your actions there were bad, but that you should have been following the advice you were handing out. A touch of the ol' "physician heal thyself," if you will.

Zero is who you’re thinking of, I understood it. But I think you may have missed the part where the respect for their good work will make me not report some intemperate remark made to me.

[Vigilant]

Just out curiosity, care to name any? And why haven't they been Tbanned yet. Say what you want, but Nableezys' conduct was on the verge of a Tban, if it had continued. If other editors are worse in your mind, then they've definitely crossed the line into Tban territory.

No, I'm not going to give you a laundry list on a public page for what should be obvious reasons, but I'd say that I don't think the biggest issue at ARBPIA is the established editors such a number that SFR topic-banned. The same problem arises at ARBIPA, which I am more familiar with (indeed I'm looking at the edits of one such editor right now).

It's the "in and out" editors who descend on hot button articles, work in concert to avoid 1RR, and then disappear until the next time. Sometimes they go too far and get "caught" as you can see from the Arbiration enforcement page, but IMO they are far more disruptive than the "regulars". Some are probably socks; many are clearly not.

Simple fix: Put all of the articles in the I/P area under pending changes and appoint a seneschal to the topic area.

[ScotFinnRadish]

That last set of diffs don’t seem like it lol, god damn dude May 2022? And are you even looking at what I’m responding to?

As I just said at AE, I should have been more clear. I'm not trying to stack on evidence, I was trying to explain how I came across much of your editing, and provide an example of what I saw while I was reading talk pages. Unfortunately when I'm reading talk page discussions on my phone during my lunch break at work I didn't have a handy way to go back and find the diffs of each addition I saw that contributed to my decision to sanction and save them all somewhere. I didn't look for diffs from 2022, they are from a discussion on a page that I looked at this morning while investigating the reports against Homere.

[Vigilant]

This is what bothers me about this situation. Disagreeing with the topic ban is fine. I get it, Nableezy is a long term contributor who does some good work. I obviously believe that it is warranted, but reasonable people disagree on things all the time. However, a bunch of people have said "Oh, there are a bunch of people who are obviously disruptive, and if you just look into it you'll see just how obvious it is. Obviously, I won't provide names or diffs of disruptive editing."

Off the top of my head, Homerethegreat for basically being a propagandist, Dovidroth for proxying, טבעת-זרם for disruptive editing and meatpuppetry, Zanahary for meatpuppetry, and on my side of the wall, oops security barrier, probably Coffeeandcrumbs and Trilletrollet for being generally unable or unwilling to separate their feelings from their comments.

You come across as suffering this disability as well.

[Vigilant]

I had a funny feeling Black Kite was going to weigh in and support Nableezy. His shift from Corbett enabler, to whatever you want to call him now, has been beautiful to watch. Two completely different editors.

I was just gonna say, "Nableezy is the new Corbett."

The spice must flow.

Who's Corbett?

Eric Corbett aka Malleus

Use the search function in the upper right.

[nableezy]

You come across as suffering this disability as well.

Here I post my feelings all the time, there I do not. There’s this myth of the pro-Palestinian group vs the pro-Israel group, there is no pro-Palestinian group in the way there is a pro-Israel one on Wikipedia. Nobody is writing Tel Aviv is in occupied Palestine, and if there were they would be blocked without complaint. There are no editors who claim there were no war crimes committed by Hamas and editing to that effect. At least among the regulars, nobody is denying massacres of civilians, or acts of terrorism. We aren’t looking to delete every article that reflects badly on some Palestinian group. The converse is not true. Yes, here in off topic threads I have shared my personal views. That isn’t really true on Wikipedia though, I share sources, the best quality ones for that matter not random schmucks on their blog. It isn’t pro-Israel vs pro-Palestine there, it’s rabidly pro-Israel vs slightly left of mainstream European.

[Vigilant]

You come across as suffering this disability as well.

Here I post my feelings all the time, there I do not. There’s this myth of the pro-Palestinian group vs the pro-Israel group, there is no pro-Palestinian group in the way there is a pro-Israel one on Wikipedia. Nobody is writing Tel Aviv is in occupied Palestine, and if there were they would be blocked without complaint. There are no editors who claim there were no war crimes committed by Hamas and editing to that effect. At least among the regulars, nobody is denying massacres of civilians, or acts of terrorism. We aren’t looking to delete every article that reflects badly on some Palestinian group. The converse is not true. Yes, here in off topic threads I have shared my personal views. That isn’t really true on Wikipedia though, I share sources, the best quality ones for that matter not random schmucks on their blog. It isn’t pro-Israel vs pro-Palestine there, it’s rabidly pro-Israel vs slightly left of mainstream European.

If you don't think it's obvious from your editing on en.wp, you might want to get a second opinion.

[nableezy]

If you don't think it's obvious from your editing on en.wp, you might want to get a second opinion.

Obviously you can tell what side I’m on, but my edits are not pro-Palestine in the way that pro-Israel groups edits are pro-Israel. It’s just that Americans are conditioned to see anything less than ultra-Zionist as being Palestinian propaganda.

[Zoll]

If you don't think it's obvious from your editing on en.wp, you might want to get a second opinion.

It's just that Americans are conditioned to see anything less than ultra-Zionist as being Palestinian propaganda.

Add Europeans to the list.

[Vigilant]

If you don't think it's obvious from your editing on en.wp, you might want to get a second opinion.

Obviously you can tell what side I’m on, but my edits are not pro-Palestine in the way that pro-Israel groups edits are pro-Israel. It’s just that Americans are conditioned to see anything less than ultra-Zionist as being Palestinian propaganda.

Oh, fuck off with that bullshit.

You're shrill, for lack of a better term, and it comes through in almost all your edits.

[Zoll]

If you don't think it's obvious from your editing on en.wp, you might want to get a second opinion.

Obviously you can tell what side I’m on, but my edits are not pro-Palestine in the way that pro-Israel groups edits are pro-Israel. It’s just that Americans are conditioned to see anything less than ultra-Zionist as being Palestinian propaganda.

Oh, fuck off with that bullshit.

Chill down, what Nableezy said is only true for boomers, Gen Z is getting 100% reliable information from TikTok

[nableezy]

Oh, fuck off with that bullshit.

Im sorry you feel that way Vig, but I’ll just point to how easy it is for somebody to see the way you and others discuss the Ukraine war with seemingly no cognizance of the obvious corollaries between Russia and Israel, how you say things like as long as the Ukrainians don’t surrender they don’t lose (basically restating the idea of sumud (T-H-L)), how you root for people to free their territory from occupation and oppression, and that you are seemingly incapable of seeing that in Palestine. You can read sources like this if you’re actually interested in challenging your beliefs on what is bullshit, but I can’t make you.

This is getting pretty though

[Zoloft]

Oh, fuck off with that bullshit.

Im sorry you feel that way Vig, but I’ll just point to how easy it is for somebody to see the way you and others discuss the Ukraine war with seemingly no cognizance of the obvious corollaries between Russia and Israel, how you say things like as long as the Ukrainians don’t surrender they don’t lose (basically restating the idea of sumud (T-H-L)), how you root for people to free their territory from occupation and oppression, and that you are seemingly incapable of seeing that in Palestine. You can read sources like this if you’re actually interested in challenging your beliefs on what is bullshit, but I can’t make you.

This is getting pretty though

Correct.

[Vigilant]

Oh, fuck off with that bullshit.

Im sorry you feel that way Vig, but I’ll just point to how easy it is for somebody to see the way you and others discuss the Ukraine war with seemingly no cognizance of the obvious corollaries between Russia and Israel, how you say things like as long as the Ukrainians don’t surrender they don’t lose (basically restating the idea of sumud (T-H-L)), how you root for people to free their territory from occupation and oppression, and that you are seemingly incapable of seeing that in Palestine. You can read sources like this if you’re actually interested in challenging your beliefs on what is bullshit, but I can’t make you.

This is getting pretty though

"Nobody who disagrees with me could possibly have a valid point of view. I am the keeper of the holy flame of truth."

[nableezy]

Oh, fuck off with that bullshit.

Im sorry you feel that way Vig, but I’ll just point to how easy it is for somebody to see the way you and others discuss the Ukraine war with seemingly no cognizance of the obvious corollaries between Russia and Israel, how you say things like as long as the Ukrainians don’t surrender they don’t lose (basically restating the idea of sumud (T-H-L)), how you root for people to free their territory from occupation and oppression, and that you are seemingly incapable of seeing that in Palestine. You can read sources like this if you’re actually interested in challenging your beliefs on what is bullshit, but I can’t make you.

This is getting pretty though

"Nobody who disagrees with me could possibly have a valid point of view. I am the keeper of the holy flame of truth."

I did not say anything of the sort. Cmon man, I’m not treating you as an idiot and pretending like you have no valid pov. My point was, and is, that the pro-Israel POV does not have a corollary pro-Palestine POV. That if somebody were to be as extreme pro-Palestine as passes for pro-Israel what they would be doing would be replacing Israel with occupied Palestine, the IDF with the IOF, calling people in Israel proper “settlers”. And that doesn’t happen. I haven’t said that my view is the correct one. I only said my view isn’t the pro-Palestinian POV pushing one that you and others have tried to pin on me. There aren’t even any Palestinian editors who edit these articles. We don’t use Palestinian sources. Hell, most of what I cite is from Israeli sources.

[Vigilant]

Oh, fuck off with that bullshit.

Im sorry you feel that way Vig, but I’ll just point to how easy it is for somebody to see the way you and others discuss the Ukraine war with seemingly no cognizance of the obvious corollaries between Russia and Israel, how you say things like as long as the Ukrainians don’t surrender they don’t lose (basically restating the idea of sumud (T-H-L)), how you root for people to free their territory from occupation and oppression, and that you are seemingly incapable of seeing that in Palestine. You can read sources like this if you’re actually interested in challenging your beliefs on what is bullshit, but I can’t make you.

This is getting pretty though

"Nobody who disagrees with me could possibly have a valid point of view. I am the keeper of the holy flame of truth."

I did not say anything of the sort. Cmon man, I’m not treating you as an idiot and pretending like you have no valid pov. My point was, and is, that the pro-Israel POV does not have a corollary pro-Palestine POV. That if somebody were to be as extreme pro-Palestine as passes for pro-Israel what they would be doing would be replacing Israel with occupied Palestine, the IDF with the IOF, calling people in Israel proper “settlers”. And that doesn’t happen. I haven’t said that my view is the correct one. I only said my view isn’t the pro-Palestinian POV pushing one that you and others have tried to pin on me. There aren’t even any Palestinian editors who edit these articles. We don’t use Palestinian sources. Hell, most of what I cite is from Israeli sources.

Maybe it's not your intent, I'm struggling here to give you the benefit of the doubt, but is certainly how you're being read.

It’s just that Americans are conditioned to see anything less than ultra-Zionist as being Palestinian propaganda.

Sure seems like this is the type of approach that got you in trouble on en.wp.
It certainly makes you a less sympathetic figure.
It certainly makes you look condescending.

[nableezy]

Maybe it's not your intent, I'm struggling here to give you the benefit of the doubt, but is certainly how you're being read.

It’s just that Americans are conditioned to see anything less than ultra-Zionist as being Palestinian propaganda.

Sure seems like this is the type of approach that got you in trouble on en.wp.
It certainly makes you a less sympathetic figure.
It certainly makes you look condescending.

Yeah, that’s my point. The way I actually edit on this topic is at most slightly left of a European or internationalist viewpoint, hell it’s more mainstream Israeli than American. But youll define that as extremist Palestinian POV-pushing. And it’s not.

[Zoll]

Oh, fuck off with that bullshit.

Im sorry you feel that way Vig, but I’ll just point to how easy it is for somebody to see the way you and others discuss the Ukraine war with seemingly no cognizance of the obvious corollaries between Russia and Israel, how you say things like as long as the Ukrainians don’t surrender they don’t lose (basically restating the idea of sumud (T-H-L)), how you root for people to free their territory from occupation and oppression, and that you are seemingly incapable of seeing that in Palestine. You can read sources like this if you’re actually interested in challenging your beliefs on what is bullshit, but I can’t make you.

This is getting pretty though

If it is off-topic, then Zoll gets the last say.

The book cited, by the book you cited is published by Pluto Press, a self-described "Marxist", and "Internationalist" publisher. Aka Tankies. The book has been criticized for lack of diversity in its appendices (O’Regan, M. (2006). Book Review: Bad News from Israel. Media, Culture & Society, 28(1), 149-151. https://doi.org/10.1177/016344370602800110), another important point of was that it is hard to fit much historical context in fast 2-3 minute news bulletins, that's why barely any of them contained history, regardless of it being pro-israeli or pro-Palestinian. (Brennan, M. (2006). Book Review: Bad News from Israel. Sociology, 40(2), 398-399. https://doi.org/10.1177/003803850604000217)

Though, the most critical review was by Gadi Wolfsfeld, who opened his review with:

Here’s how we watch the news: Everything we agree with is objective journalism; everything we disagree with is obviously biased. This leads to the conclusion that people who are emotionally involved in a conflict are probably the worst possible judges of bias. This would obviously include most Israelis, Palestinians, and their supporters who make claims about press coverage of the Arab-Israeli conflict. The same can be said about scholars who attempt to detect bias in news coverage. For a research project in this area to be convincing, it would have to employ extremely meticulous methods in order to overcome any suspicions that the authors simply found what they were looking for. This is certainly not the case in this book.

[Vigilant]

Maybe it's not your intent, I'm struggling here to give you the benefit of the doubt, but is certainly how you're being read.

It’s just that Americans are conditioned to see anything less than ultra-Zionist as being Palestinian propaganda.

Sure seems like this is the type of approach that got you in trouble on en.wp.
It certainly makes you a less sympathetic figure.
It certainly makes you look condescending.

Yeah, that’s my point. The way I actually edit on this topic is at most slightly left of a European or internationalist viewpoint, hell it’s more mainstream Israeli than American. But youll define that as extremist Palestinian POV-pushing. And it’s not.

I will, will I?

[rnu]

When it comes to topic bans for propaganda, that is tough to do as an admin because about the time I have read enough sources to come to my own subjective conclusion about which ones I trust, which I don't, which academic publishers are acceptable as fact and which require attribution, and what the correct POV is for the topic area I'm way too involved to take any actions. Take for example this edit by Homere and this revert. The revert is incorrect on it's face, it violates lead follows body and synth. As an admin I can't revert the revert because them I'm involved for expressing editorial opinion and being involved in an editing dispute in the topic, I can't warn for a content issue because I've then expressed an editorial opinion and am involved. You've used the "but they're misbehaving/wrong/pov pushing" defense before, so how many "overlook misbehavior" points to I give Homere for being correct on this content issue while the person bringing him to two noticeboards is reverting him?

That's a real catch-22. I don't see any obvious way to change it. A seemingly simple solution would be to assign a group of people to look into it, write a report, hand it to the admins and let them decide. But that kind of thing would never fly on Wikipedia. It would never get beyond the discussion on who should be on the group that writes the report.

[Tarc]

It is rather peculiar to see such a dramatic shift in power in this topic area from 10-15 years ago. Jayjg, 6SJ7 (something like that), Slimvirgin, my old buddy Zeq. Now the bias has swung the other way.

SFR tried to nip a problematic Untouchable, and is about to get reversed at ArbEnforcement it appears.

Wikipedia; always improving.

[andre]

some people claim they are actually progressive or similar to a reasonable center POV
yet when you look at their rhetoric and dismissive actions it is essentially equivalent to the POV you would read on Mondoweiss or Electronic Intifada, aka extreme pro-hamas pov
that's fine if that's your truth, even though it offends people, but you can't push it as the fact that belongs in the article or doubt apparent reliable sources, tendentiously, such as NBC News, BBC, and even the intercept

Repeated accusations of "making things up," who made up which things? No evidence was shown that anyone made anything up at any time that I can see.

Who wrote this: "No, I was saying that an organization that has repeatedly proven itself to have provided accounts that have turned out to be totally manufactured should probably not be just taken as gospel for other accounts. I believe you have a similar feeling wrt sources like Fox News. Thats the problem with embellishment, it makes people trust you less even when youre telling the truth. When ZAKA spreads these wild rumors, and then they get repeatedly debunked, it makes people question their credibility"
mondoweiss

Who wrote this: "Im sorry, but youre just making things upexaggerating the evidence and the certainty of the sources. There is no video footage or photographs or documentary evidence, there are eyewitness accounts and there are denials. You can believe the same organizations that made up a baby in the oven or 40 beheaded babies if you want, but please dont misrepresent what the evidence is here. There are no videos, that is not true. And 75-95% of sources do not agree that this happened. Because they dont say it in their own words that it happened, they say who has said it happened and what evidence they have presented for it. They also say who has said it did not happen. You can and others can misrepresent what the sources actually say, but Ive read them and I dont need to just pretend that this misrepresentation is accurate at all. You can say Hamas is a terrorist group with poor credibility, and my response is Israel as a state is an established liar, over decades and in this conflict, and if you want to believe everything they say you can do that, but I dont think that is appropriate for a serious source to accept as fact the claims of a party engaged in active armed conflict and who has provably lied over and over again. And neither do the sources who relay Israeli accusations as Israeli accusations."
electronic intifada

what does NY times say?

[nableezy]

Andre do you have any idea how dishonest it is to use a quote from before that story? You were making shit up.

Jake, I never got to reply to the white man who pretended to be black so he could call people, including me, the n word hard r then claim it was ok because he was black. But id appreciate an allowance to be used once on such a person. Lmk

[Midsize Jake]

Jake, I never got to reply to the white man who pretended to be black so he could call people, including me, the n word hard r then claim it was ok because he was black. But id appreciate an allowance to be used once on such a person. Lmk

Tarc? Sure! He loves it when people dunk on him!

Still, that was a long time ago — some of the WP folks who could be deciding on your status might not have been around back then, or might not remember. (And I doubt he'll ever try something like that again — he's all grown-up now, I think.)

[MrErnie]

[andre]

no, nableezy. NBC news article came out Dec 6
which was posted by user:andrevan on wiki

you claimed there were no videos, no photos, and no documentary evidence

Over the last several weeks, NBC News has reviewed five interrogations of captured Hamas fighters, an Arabic-language document that instructed Hamas how to pronounce “Take off your pants” in Hebrew, six images of naked or partially naked deceased female bodies, seven eyewitness accounts of sexual violence including both rape and mutilation, 11 testimonies of first responders, and two accounts from workers in morgues who handled the bodies of women after they were recovered from the massacre.

[nableezy]

Jake, I never got to reply to the white man who pretended to be black so he could call people, including me, the n word hard r then claim it was ok because he was black. But id appreciate an allowance to be used once on such a person. Lmk

Tarc? Sure! He loves it when people dunk on him!

Still, that was a long time ago — some of the WP folks who could be deciding on your status might not have been around back then, or might not remember. (And I doubt he'll ever try something like that again — he's all grown-up now, I think.)

Maybe you’re right, maybe just reminding people that Tarc is the type of white man to play internet tough guy and thinks it gives him authenticity to pretend to be black and call people he doesn’t know the n word. Maybe it’s better to remind people that this pasty fat fuck has never been shit but a pretend thug who nipped at the heels of people better than him. Yeah, you’re probably right. But maybe the forum mods should tell him to stfu about anybody who might have reason to want to kick the shit out of him. Though to be fair that’s probably an uncountable list of people.

[nableezy]

no, nableezy. NBC news article came out Dec 6
which was posted by user:andrevan on wiki

you claimed there were no videos, no photos, and no documentary evidence

Over the last several weeks, NBC News has reviewed five interrogations of captured Hamas fighters, an Arabic-language document that instructed Hamas how to pronounce “Take off your pants” in Hebrew, six images of naked or partially naked deceased female bodies, seven eyewitness accounts of sexual violence including both rape and mutilation, 11 testimonies of first responders, and two accounts from workers in morgues who handled the bodies of women after they were recovered from the massacre.

I said there was no video proving rape. There was none. Now there is. Funny how time works.

[orangepi]

Jake, I never got to reply to the white man who pretended to be black so he could call people, including me, the n word hard r then claim it was ok because he was black. But id appreciate an allowance to be used once on such a person. Lmk

Tarc? Sure! He loves it when people dunk on him!

Still, that was a long time ago — some of the WP folks who could be deciding on your status might not have been around back then, or might not remember. (And I doubt he'll ever try something like that again — he's all grown-up now, I think.)

Maybe you’re right, maybe just reminding people that Tarc is the type of white man to play internet tough guy and thinks it gives him authenticity to pretend to be black and call people he doesn’t know the n word. Maybe it’s better to remind people that this pasty fat fuck has never been shit but a pretend thug who nipped at the heels of people better than him. Yeah, you’re probably right. But maybe the forum mods should tell him to stfu about anybody who might have reason to want to kick the shit out of him. Though to be fair that’s probably an uncountable list of people.

Do you do anything other than jump to personal attacks against anyone who disagrees with you?

[Vigilant]

Jake, I never got to reply to the white man who pretended to be black so he could call people, including me, the n word hard r then claim it was ok because he was black. But id appreciate an allowance to be used once on such a person. Lmk

Tarc? Sure! He loves it when people dunk on him!

Still, that was a long time ago — some of the WP folks who could be deciding on your status might not have been around back then, or might not remember. (And I doubt he'll ever try something like that again — he's all grown-up now, I think.)

Maybe you’re right, maybe just reminding people that Tarc is the type of white man to play internet tough guy and thinks it gives him authenticity to pretend to be black and call people he doesn’t know the n word. Maybe it’s better to remind people that this pasty fat fuck has never been shit but a pretend thug who nipped at the heels of people better than him. Yeah, you’re probably right. But maybe the forum mods should tell him to stfu about anybody who might have reason to want to kick the shit out of him. Though to be fair that’s probably an uncountable list of people.

You're not helping yourself here.

[MrErnie]

Andre do you have any idea how dishonest it is to use a quote from before that story? You were making shit up.

Jake, I never got to reply to the white man who pretended to be black so he could call people, including me, the n word hard r then claim it was ok because he was black. But id appreciate an allowance to be used once on such a person. Lmk

Where did Tarc do this? This is pretty gross. Tarc - wtf?