Is Larry Sanger a racist?

[Giraffe Stapler]

You probably read about Microsoft altering its Bing image generator in response to a trend of generating fake Disney and Pixar movie posters. Larry Sanger, who is a bible-loving Christian, shared a post on his Twitter feed about this. The post includes a video slideshow of alt-right memes turned into movie posters. Several of them are overtly racist. Some of them show children's show characters as Nazis. Some of them are overtly transphobic.

Here are just a few screenshots:

Screenshot 2023-11-28 at 17-37-01 Larry Sanger (@lsanger) _ X.jpg

Screenshot 2023-11-28 at 17-35-32 Larry Sanger (@lsanger) _ X.jpg

Screenshot 2023-11-28 at 17-34-32 Larry Sanger (@lsanger) _ X.jpg

Now, Larry Sanger has written an essay on "Why Racism Is Wrong", but if you search his tweets for "racism" or "racist", he seems to focus on what he perceives as anti-white racism. And he appears to use the word "bigot" to mean anti-Christian bigotry. Has rubbing elbows with the alt-right for the last several years finally turned Sanger into a straight up racist? If not, why would he share something so obviously racist?

[iii]

I applaud you for creating a rare exception to Betteridge's law of headlines (T-H-L).

[No Ledge]

Meh, I think this falls into the category "disrupting the Internet and Corporate America to make a point".

I'm not sure whether left-wing or right-wing extremists are supposed to be more upset about these images.

[Vigilant]

The short answer is yes.

The longer answer is, "He's not just a racist, he's a general purpose bigot."

[Hemiauchenia]

I would say probably, but Sanger is just an all-round loon and grifter, and we've known that for years, I think I need to cleanse my mind of Sanger's nonsense by listening to some actual loon calls:

[Midsize Jake]

"Racist-enabler" is probably more accurate, but for most people these days it's pretty much the same thing.

There's also plenty of misogyny, transphobia, and what-not in the video slideshow in question.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Meh, I think this falls into the category "disrupting the Internet and Corporate America to make a point".

I'm not sure whether left-wing or right-wing extremists are supposed to be more upset about these images.

Sorry, what? These are images that were created, shared, and promoted in alt-right circles because they think these are funny. This isn't some kind of well-meaning demonstration of the dangers inherent in the Bing image demonstrator.

[Giraffe Stapler]

"Racist-enabler" is probably more accurate, but for most people these days it's pretty much the same thing.

If someone doesn't say anything about someone else telling a racist joke, they might be a racist enabler. If someone tells me a racist joke, I assume they are a racist. Sharing that post is like re-telling the racist joke. Perhaps Sanger had other reasons for sharing it, but if so, they left them unsaid.

[AndyTheGrump]

I'd have to suggest that, beyond the shadow of any doubt, regardless of whether Sanger is a racist or not, his essay indicates that he is an idiot. Absolutely no attempt to even ask what 'race' actually is: instead he treats it, without question, as an inherited biological attribute. Nobody even remotely familiar with the ongoing debates over the topic that have occupied the social and biological sciences for decades past should simply take this as given as a starting point for analysis. He doesn't have to agree with the science, but anyone with pretensions to being a philosopher can't simply ignore it, and expect to be taken seriously. This isn't an exercise in philosophy, it is an exercise in feeling smug without actually taking the time to address issues that might make oneself uncomfortable - issues revolving around 'race' as a cultural artefact that philosophy ought to address, rather than merely regurgitating the biological determinism found at the core of racism.

[Midsize Jake]

Sharing that post is like re-telling the racist joke.

Y'know, I've always wondered about that. I mean, it's either like retelling the joke, or it's like saying "hey, here's a guy who told a funny/stupid/bad/whatever joke and it's up to you to decide if you want to hear it or not." IOW, it's either a direct analogue to the real world, or it's indirect, which is to say that the analogy is flawed to some degree. That's always been one of the problems with social media in general, and Twitter especially — people draw real-world analogies with all kinds of tweets/posts, but there's no definitive rulebook or anything to tell us what analogies are accurate. Maybe that's just as well... Of course, the people tweeting/posting will often use that as a way to get away with things they otherwise shouldn't be allowed to get away with, but it also works the other way, where someone can easily offend lots of people without actually intending to.

That's not to say Larry Sanger isn't a racist, though — he probably is. This retweet could even be an "experiment" to see how much more he can get away with, now that all the decent people are leaving the platform.

[Midsize Jake]

I'd have to suggest that, beyond the shadow of any doubt, regardless of whether Sanger is a racist or not, his essay indicates that he is an idiot. Absolutely no attempt to even ask what 'race' actually is: instead he treats it, without question, as an inherited biological attribute.

I also noticed (hard not to) that he's now referring to himself as "Captain Obvious," which is basically a 100% certain sign that he knows he's full of shit and doesn't care.

[Giraffe Stapler]

I also noticed (hard not to) that he's now referring to himself as "Captain Obvious," which is basically a 100% certain sign that he knows he's full of shit and doesn't care.

It's Captain Obvious, not Captain Self-Aware...

[Vigilant]

I also noticed (hard not to) that he's now referring to himself as "Captain Obvious," which is basically a 100% certain sign that he knows he's full of shit and doesn't care.

It's Captain Obvious, not Captain Self-Aware...

It's a spelling error.

He meant 'Oblivious'.

Easy to make.

[rhindle]

Racist is as racist does.

[Anroth]

"Racist-enabler" is probably more accurate, but for most people these days it's pretty much the same thing.

If someone doesn't say anything about someone else telling a racist joke, they might be a racist enabler. If someone tells me a racist joke, I assume they are a racist. Sharing that post is like re-telling the racist joke. Perhaps Sanger had other reasons for sharing it, but if so, they left them unsaid.

Yeah pretty much the same here. Failing to call out racism etc doesnt make you a racist. Actively sharing, saying, doing things that are *obviously* racist... makes you a racist.

[ArmasRebane]

I feel like "is ___ racist/sexist/etc." just falls into semantics or trying to guess at someone's heart.

The more relevant question is whether their acts are racist, and it's surprising once you divorce "I'm not calling you specifically racist" how many people are happy to cop to the behavior (because for a lot of these people, the worst possible thing is being called a racist, witness Lawrence Fox.)

[No Ledge]

I guess I'm an outlier here, but I still can't decide whether the "artist(s)" are overtly racist, making fun of racists (parody cartoons) or trying to make racists look bad. Or maybe they, like DeSantis, have a thing for trying to make Disney look bad.

Is the Stapler just as racist as Sanger is, for spreading this viral thing onto this forum?

[Giraffe Stapler]

I guess I'm an outlier here, but I still can't decide whether the "artist(s)" are overtly racist, making fun of racists (parody cartoons) or trying to make racists look bad. Or maybe they, like DeSantis, have a thing for trying to make Disney look bad.

Outlier is not the word I would use.

Is the Stapler just as racist as Sanger is, for spreading this viral thing onto this forum?

I allowed that Sanger might have reasons for sharing this other than to spread racist/transphobic/etc alt-right imagery but he didn't say anything about it, he just reposted it. When I posted the link and some screenshots here, it was for the purpose of calling out the racism, which you know from everything that I wrote. So the answer to your obviously disingenuous question is, no. Unless, of course, I actually am a racist and I am using this as an opportunity to spread such images by pretending to criticize them. That seems plainly ridiculous and at odds with all of the available evidence, but I can see that you like to give equal consideration to all of the options.

[ArmasRebane]

I guess I'm an outlier here, but I still can't decide whether the "artist(s)" are overtly racist, making fun of racists (parody cartoons) or trying to make racists look bad. Or maybe they, like DeSantis, have a thing for trying to make Disney look bad.

Is the Stapler just as racist as Sanger is, for spreading this viral thing onto this forum?

I'd agree in isolation (the Pixar one could easily be making fun of the right-wing "they should support us more!" argumentation, for instance, and the 'inappropriate puppets' imagery has been a thing for decades at this point, or just more general edgelord internet aesthetic) but in aggregate I'd say the slant s pretty clear (and at this point the edgelord > legitimate believer pipeline for this stuff is pretty straightforward.)

[FelinaLavandula]

It may be relevant to note that Elijah Schaffer, the person who made the tweet, is a far-right (alt-right?) podcaster who was fired from Glenn Beck’s The Blaze for being a sex pest. He definitely shared that video because he is racist. I don’t know if Larry Sanger shared it directly from him or if there was an intermediary (or two) but I felt someone ought to mention it.

[Zoll]

The blurry line between racism and comedy. The real question is: Is Larry Singer a comedian?

[The Garbage Scow]

I'm not sure if he's a racist, but he's for sure a cretin.

[Giraffe Stapler]

The blurry line between racism and comedy. The real question is: Is Larry Singer a comedian?

Zoll, can you explain what's funny about the 2 Black astronauts with the chicken and the watermelon? I don't get it. It just seems like racist tropes to me. What am I missing?

Or, how about this one:

Screenshot 2023-11-29 at 13-16-19 Larry Sanger (@lsanger) _ X.jpg

It just kinda feels racist to me because those brown muffins have features that resemble blackface makeup, but that's probably not a strong enough reason to assume it is intended to be racist. Of course, Know Your Meme says that "dindu nuffin" is a racist meme. So the joke here is that this is a play on words? Is that it?

[rnu]

It may be relevant to note that Elijah Schaffer, the person who made the tweet, is a far-right (alt-right?) podcaster who was fired from Glenn Beck’s The Blaze for being a sex pest. He definitely shared that video because he is racist. I don’t know if Larry Sanger shared it directly from him or if there was an intermediary (or two) but I felt someone ought to mention it.

I'm not really familiar with X/Twitter. I avoided it even before the Musk takeover. Below the pictures it says "From Zeno Calhoun" followed by a blue checkmark. Does that maybe indicate the account from which it was shared?

[Mason]

My guess is that if you asked Larry “hey man, these images seem pretty racist, why did you post them?”… well, he’d block you, because he has a thin skin and doesn’t tolerate being questioned.

But assuming he did answer, I’d guess it would sound more like “I wanted to show the kind of garbage that these woke so-called ‘anti-racist’ corporations are generating” rather than “cause they’re funny, bro!”

But maybe I’m assuming too much good faith, given his well-established bigotry towards other groups. And at any rate I doubt he considered for a moment that amplifying racist memes might, you know, upset members of a group he theoretically doesn’t have a problem with.

[Zoll]

The blurry line between racism and comedy. The real question is: Is Larry Singer a comedian?

Zoll, can you explain what's funny about the 2 Black astronauts with the chicken and the watermelon? I don't get it. It just seems like racist tropes to me. What am I missing?

Or, how about this one:
Screenshot 2023-11-29 at 13-16-19 Larry Sanger (@lsanger) _ X.jpg
It just kinda feels racist to me because those brown muffins have features that resemble blackface makeup, but that's probably not a strong enough reason to assume it is intended to be racist. Of course, Know Your Meme says that "dindu nuffin" is a racist meme. So the joke here is that this is a play on words? Is that it?

The watermelon chicken picture is an online trend. Pure comedy, nobody intends to use it as racist material.
The Blackface is a stupid American concept, because you have to ruin everything. See the Coat of Arms of Coburg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DEU_Coburg_COA.svg), it's not racist, it is a historical relic from the 14th century. As long as you don't use blackface, to depict black people in an intentionally humiliating/dumb/subhuman manner, it's alright.

[Giraffe Stapler]

The watermelon chicken picture is an online trend. Pure comedy, nobody intends to use it as racist material.

Oh, ok, so it's just "an online trend"? Not racist, then? Even though it uses obvious and well-known racist tropes? But what's the joke, Zoll? What is funny in "chicken pictures"? I'm not seeing the joke.

The Blackface is a stupid American concept, because you have to ruin everything. See the Coat of Arms of Coburg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DEU_Coburg_COA.svg), it's not racist, it is a historical relic from the 14th century. As long as you don't use blackface, to depict black people in an intentionally humiliating/dumb/subhuman manner, it's alright.

That's not blackface - that's Saint Maurice. They were dark-skinned. I think a lot of people would disagree with you about the use of blackface, but that's a whole different discussion.

[Zoll]

The watermelon chicken picture is an online trend. Pure comedy, nobody intends to use it as racist material.

Oh, ok, so it's just "an online trend"? Not racist, then? Even though it uses obvious and well-known racist tropes? But what's the joke, Zoll? What is funny in "chicken pictures"? I'm not seeing the joke.

The Blackface is a stupid American concept, because you have to ruin everything. See the Coat of Arms of Coburg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:DEU_Coburg_COA.svg), it's not racist, it is a historical relic from the 14th century. As long as you don't use blackface, to depict black people in an intentionally humiliating/dumb/subhuman manner, it's alright.

That's not blackface - that's Saint Maurice. They were dark-skinned. I think a lot of people would disagree with you about the use of blackface, but that's a whole different discussion.

It's an online trend as far as I know, and I'm not sure whether I get the joke either, go ask the TikTokers what they find funny about it. What I do know, is that the millions of young people who like those memes aren't racist (for the most part).

A few years back, some people requested that the town change the coat of arms, because it was racist and blackface according to them. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-racism-de ... a-54263749

[iii]

It's an online trend as far as I know, and I'm not sure whether I get the joke either, go ask the TikTokers what they find funny about it. What I do know, is that the millions of young people who like those memes aren't racist (for the most part).

Millions? I'd like to see the data on that.

What the "TikTokers" (by which you mean "4Chaners") find funny about it is the racism, my dude.

[Vigilant]

It's an online trend as far as I know, and I'm not sure whether I get the joke either, go ask the TikTokers what they find funny about it. What I do know, is that the millions of young people who like those memes aren't racist (for the most part).

Millions? I'd like to see the data on that.

What the "TikTokers" (by which you mean "4Chaners") find funny about it is the racism, my dude.

Not even well hidden.

[Zoll]

It's an online trend as far as I know, and I'm not sure whether I get the joke either, go ask the TikTokers what they find funny about it. What I do know, is that the millions of young people who like those memes aren't racist (for the most part).

Millions? I'd like to see the data on that.

What the "TikTokers" (by which you mean "4Chaners") find funny about it is the racism, my dude.

Not millions, I don't use TikTok, I was wrong. But they are viral with 100ks likes https://www.tiktok.com/tag/chickenandwatermelon https://www.tiktok.com/@professionaledg ... 0623679790 https://www.tiktok.com/@breezymovetact/ ... 0623679790

Also, my apologies, I have to work on my meme anthropology skills.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Not millions, I don't use TikTok, I was wrong. But they are viral with 100ks likes https://www.tiktok.com/tag/chickenandwatermelon https://www.tiktok.com/@professionaledg ... 0623679790 https://www.tiktok.com/@breezymovetact/ ... 0623679790

Also, my apologies, I have to work on my meme anthropology skills.

Here, let me format that link properly for you: https://www.tiktok.com/@professionaledg ... 1356376326

So, Zoll, you didn't think that particular TikTok from "professionaledger69" was maybe just a little racist? I mean, the audio for it actually uses the n-word and the TikTok is tagged "#moneypeople". Did you see this other one from the same user? Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if you know the difference between comedy and just overt, flat out, undisguised racism.

[Zoll]

Not millions, I don't use TikTok, I was wrong. But they are viral with 100ks likes https://www.tiktok.com/tag/chickenandwatermelon https://www.tiktok.com/@professionaledg ... 0623679790 https://www.tiktok.com/@breezymovetact/ ... 0623679790

Also, my apologies, I have to work on my meme anthropology skills.

Here, let me format that link properly for you: https://www.tiktok.com/@professionaledg ... 1356376326

So, Zoll, you didn't think that particular TikTok from "professionaledger69" was maybe just a little racist? I mean, the audio for it actually uses the n-word and the TikTok is tagged "#moneypeople". Did you see this other one from the same user? Honestly, I'm beginning to wonder if you know the difference between comedy and just overt, flat out, undisguised racism.

The fact that his username includes "69" proves to me that the channel is not at all serious. If you don't know what the meme 69 means, look it up.

I'm not sure how much time you spend on TikTok/YT shorts/reels, but I can tell you this sort of stuff is common place. As demonstrated by the 1.4 million likes.

The channel also posts other memes https://www.tiktok.com/@professionaledg ... 7239971078 https://www.tiktok.com/@professionaledg ... 9163809029

I guess your perception of such memes or racist tropes depends on one's age.

[Giraffe Stapler]

I guess your perception of such memes or racist tropes depends on one's age.

I think there's a different reason. One that is now obvious to anyone who reads this thread.

[stedil]

Things that are popular can also be racist.
"online trends" can be racist.
videos with "over 1.4 million likes" can be racist.
Jokes and comedy can be racist.
Young people can be racist.
Channels that have non-racist content can also have racist content.
Channels with "69" in their name can have racist content.
"Unserious" channels can have racist content.
Videos that prominently feature racist stereotypes are racist.

[FelinaLavandula]

It may be relevant to note that Elijah Schaffer, the person who made the tweet, is a far-right (alt-right?) podcaster who was fired from Glenn Beck’s The Blaze for being a sex pest. He definitely shared that video because he is racist. I don’t know if Larry Sanger shared it directly from him or if there was an intermediary (or two) but I felt someone ought to mention it.

I'm not really familiar with X/Twitter. I avoided it even before the Musk takeover. Below the pictures it says "From Zeno Calhoun" followed by a blue checkmark. Does that maybe indicate the account from which it was shared?

That’s the person who originally made the video. So Elijah Schaffer reposted it from them somewhere. I don’t know this account so I didn’t mention it, but the blue checkmark that you now have to pay Elon Musk to get is a bad sign.
You can’t actually see from whom a tweet was retweeted, you can just see the person who originally tweeted it. I think. So there’s no way to know if Larry found it via Schaffer’s account or via someone else who retweeted it to his feed. It’s a bit weird.

[Konveyor Belt]

I'm not sure if he's racist, but I'm pretty sure he's not antiracist.

[Vigilant]

Can we just say he's a fucking asshole?

[Beeblebrox]

I would say probably, but Sanger is just an all-round loon and grifter, and we've known that for years, I think I need to cleanse my mind of Sanger's nonsense by listening to some actual loon calls:

I sure do love loon calls. And loons in general. The bird kind.

[eppur si muove]

Can we just say he's a fucking asshole?

I've been thinking of this as the Larry shits in the wood thread.

[Midsize Jake]

This retweet could even be an "experiment" to see how much more he can get away with, now that all the decent people are leaving the platform.

Today he tweeted/retweeted some straight-up QAnon nonsense bullshit about the Pope being directly involved in child sex-trafficking along with the Italian Mafia — accompanied by a big photo of Pope Francis hanging out with Ivanka and Melania Trump, apparently chosen as if to somehow prove that the Trumps are "still fighting the child sex-traffickers." So if it is an experiment, I guess it's working.

We might have to start considering "evil" here in addition to "racist," "stupid," and "cretinous." What happened to this guy? I just don't think he was anything like this f'd-up ten years ago.

[Konveyor Belt]

We might have to start considering "evil" here in addition to "racist," "stupid," and "cretinous." What happened to this guy? I just don't think he was anything like this f'd-up ten years ago.

Sometimes it's the people who think that they are smarter than the average bear and therefore won't fall for nonsense that end up being the ones who fall hardest for the latest nonsense. I mean sure, all the flat-earth guys from 30 years ago and the 9/11 guys from 20 years ago are probably QAnon guys now, because some people just believe anything. But QAnon has a unique power among conspiracies in that it somehow attracts non-conspiracy people, even those that think they're above conspiracies.

[The Garbage Scow]

Things that are popular can also be racist.
"online trends" can be racist.
videos with "over 1.4 million likes" can be racist.
Jokes and comedy can be racist.
Young people can be racist.
Channels that have non-racist content can also have racist content.
Channels with "69" in their name can have racist content.
"Unserious" channels can have racist content.
Videos that prominently feature racist stereotypes are racist.

People are really attached to their ignorant habits and status quo. The American South instigated a civil war over it.

There's none so blind as he who will not see.

[Ron Lybonly]

People are really attached to their ignorant habits and status quo. The American South instigated a civil war over it.

There's none so blind as he who will not see.

God bless the South but it’s got real problems with this.

Final paragraph of WJ Cash’s Mind of the South:

"Proud, brave, honorable by its lights, courteous, personally generous, loyal, swift to act, often too swift, but signally effective, sometimes terrible, in its action -- such was the South at its best. And such at its best it remains today, despite the great falling away in some of its virtues. Violence, intolerance, aversion and suspicion towlard new ideas, an incapacity for analysis, an inclination to act from feeling rather than from thought, an exaggerated individualism and too narrow concept of social responsibility, attachment to fictions and false values, above all too great attachment to racial values and a tendency to justify cruelty and injustice in the name of those values, sentimentality and a lack of realism -- these have been its characteristic vices in the past. And, despite changes for the better, they remain its characteristic vices today."

This seems to be contagious these days and no longer just a Southern thing

Ph.D. or not, Sanger’s going to be eating Slim Jims and watching NASCAR before he knows it.

[Mason]

Nah, NASCAR’s probably too woke for Larry now. They don’t even let you fly confederate flags there anymore!

[Ron Lybonly]

Nah, NASCAR’s probably too woke for Larry now. They don’t even let you fly confederate flags there anymore!

2018 NASCAR All-Star Race:

IMG_8126.jpeg

[Giraffe Stapler]

In today's episode of "Is Larry Sanger a racist?" Sanger posts a tweet (tweets a post?) wherein he shares a link to an article that he describes as "British cop faces prison for *implying something* with a meme sent to a private group". The article is on something called Modernity News, written by Paul Joseph Watson (T-H-L). I'm not familiar with Modernity News, but I am familiar with the name Paul Joseph Watson through his association with Alex Jones. Larry Sanger undoubtedly knows who Paul Joseph Watson is.

The ludicrous state of free speech in the UK is being exposed by the fact that a former police officer is facing prison for merely ‘implying’ something offensive in a meme sent to a private WhatsApp group.

62-year-old Michael Chadwell sent a meme which featured multi-colored parrots and children of diverse ethnic backgrounds accompanied by text asking why diversity is celebrated in animal species but not humanity.

A Facebook comment below the meme said, “Because I’ve never had a bike stolen out of my front yard by a parrot.”

There are some people, like Paul Joseph Watson (and perhaps even a few members of this forum), who may argue that as merely implying something, but the rest of use will see it for what it is.

[AndyTheGrump]

Chadwell was a former member of the Diplomatic Protection Group, along with five other Met officers who have already pleaded guilty to sending grossly offensive racist WhatsApp messages, concerning amongst other things floods in Pakistan which killed 1,700 people.

[eppur si muove]

Chadwell was a former member of the Diplomatic Protection Group, along with five other Met officers who have already pleaded guilty to sending grossly offensive racist WhatsApp messages, concerning amongst other things floods in Pakistan which killed 1,700 people.

And both the best known murderer cop and the best known rapist cop of recent years in the UK both belonged to the DPG.

[The Garbage Scow]

In today's episode of "Is Larry Sanger a racist?" Sanger posts a tweet (tweets a post?) wherein he shares a link to an article that he describes as "British cop faces prison for *implying something* with a meme sent to a private group". The article is on something called Modernity News, written by Paul Joseph Watson (T-H-L). I'm not familiar with Modernity News, but I am familiar with the name Paul Joseph Watson through his association with Alex Jones. Larry Sanger undoubtedly knows who Paul Joseph Watson is.

The ludicrous state of free speech in the UK is being exposed by the fact that a former police officer is facing prison for merely ‘implying’ something offensive in a meme sent to a private WhatsApp group.

62-year-old Michael Chadwell sent a meme which featured multi-colored parrots and children of diverse ethnic backgrounds accompanied by text asking why diversity is celebrated in animal species but not humanity.

A Facebook comment below the meme said, “Because I’ve never had a bike stolen out of my front yard by a parrot.”

There are some people, like Paul Joseph Watson (and perhaps even a few members of this forum), who may argue that as merely implying something, but the rest of use will see it for what it is.

Crazy Uncle Larry sharing garbage from the professional troll PJW is fitting.