Minor-attracted person

[Anroth]

The thing is, you run a constant Saville tightrope as an anime fan. One minute you are watching quite a well animated mecha, giant robots beating the crap out of each other, when 6 episodes in its time for the schoolgirl hot springs fan service out of nowhere.

It boggles the mind when (if you have been to Japan) this stuff is going out at afternoon/prime time, and rated the equiv of 12+.

I'm sticking to One-punch. Its unlikely to ever go there.

[Midsize Jake]

I'm sticking to One-punch. Its unlikely to ever go there.

Yeah, Tatsumaki looks at least 18, especially on the TV show with the green hair.

[Anroth]

I'm sticking to One-punch. Its unlikely to ever go there.

Yeah, Tatsumaki looks at least 18, especially on the TV show with the green hair.

To be fair though, its unlikely they are ever going to have a hot springs episode in the anime as she has the personality of an angry doberman. Although I believe there is a beach episode in the manga where Tatsumaki shows up.... maybe I should rethink my policy.

[tarantino]

It looks like 22spears is the latest incarnation of A8Y (T-C-L) (previous user name Kautr). Other socks include SrtᵉLiriel, YT0, SKauane, Kauan Sampaio, and Favobee. They're all globally locked. There's a long discussion on ptwiki about him and they point out that he's self-disclosed as autistic and schizophrenic.

[tinyboxs]

Looking at A8Y's userboxes on an old revision of their user-page, they are impressively polyglottal, but also fascinated by an array of controversial topics, including Satanism, the anti-circumcision movement, sexuality, and Marxism.

[Konveyor Belt]

Anti-circumcision is one of those things where it's probably a noble enough cause but everyone I've known who's into it is a raving loony.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Jeremy Malcolm responded to someone who mentioned his Wikipedia block on Twitter. When that person suggested they appeal to Jimbo, Malcolm said:

It won’t need to come to that, I’m sure. It won’t be hard for whichever administrator considers this appeal to see that the block was made in bad faith.

When that unblock request was denied, they said:

Well, maybe I will bring in Jimmy after all. Either way, I won't be letting this go. It's terrifying how fundamentally Wikipedians misunderstand the organisation's own child protection policy.

Responding to a comment from @Talix30 ("MAP (exclusive gay hebephile)..."), they said:

Making it go away quietly isn't an option that they have. I'll be blogging about the capture of Wikipedia by anti-science reactionaries if that's the way this ends up going.

[eppur si muove]

Going over to look at Malcolm's Twitter feed after the above post I noticed he had said this link

In the wake of the 2018 passage of the internet child protection bill FOSTA-SESTA in the US, fandom’s proudly sex-positive culture has increasingly become sanitized, homogenized, and erased — which has allowed the puritanical voices of these “anti-fans” to take their place.

Shipping and the related phenomenon slash really first got going with Kirk/Spocking aka K/S. This was fan fiction about an imagined relationship between two characters well past the age of majority played by actors similarly past the age of majority. There was also an element of irony about this because everyone knew it was never going to happen. A while latter there were some popular SFF shows such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer which featured characters that were high school students played by actors in their twenties and their was various slash fiction about them. Then another twist happened when the likes of the Harry Potter films generated slash fiction. So this featured child characters who were played by child actors. When there were just the books, HP slash fiction was about purely imagined beings. But once Tom Fenton, one of the best-looking cast members, started to play Malfoy, the amount of slash involving the character increased hugely. The Malfoy slash fiction was as much about Fenton as about the character he played.

US fandom has had sex-positive elements at least 60 years ago when something called the Breendoggle happened. link. In 1964, Walter Breen married Marion Zimmer Bradley who wrote the popular Mists of Avalon series of Arthurian books as well as the Darkover series. She was widely considered to be a feminist writer and helped create the Society for Creative Anachronism. She was involved in another sort of anachronism too when she edited Breen's pseudonymous book Greek Love which advocated a return to the ancient Greek pederastic system where an adult man would mentor a youth and in return get to have sex with him. Breen, a member of Nambla, had tried to put his theory into practice and been convicted and placed on probation in 1954.

There was a failed attempt to ban Breen from the 1961 World Science Fiction Convention because of what some fans had seen of his behaviour. He was successful banned from the 1964 Worldcon. Many fans, the 1960s equivalent of Qirtaiba, protested his exclusion either because of ignorance, naive and wishful thinking or toxic sex-positivity.

Breen was eventually to die in jail. Bradley was never imprisoned but the couple's daughter wrote about their sexual exploitation of multiple children included herself after both were dead.

There most certainly should be a limit to how sex-positive fandom is.

[greyed.out.fields]

<snip>

Hmm... the 1990s and bandanas. Well of course I've read Infinite Jest.

[eppur si muove]

On that wonderful charity Prostasia https://reduxx.info/exclusive-prostasia ... ping-kids/

A staff member at a controversial charity has been caught operating pseudonymous accounts where he admits to being a pedophile and masturbating to photos of children.

I wonder how Jeremy Malcolm will explain that one away.

(Reduxx are not my favourite source, but I have no reason to doubt them on this subject.)

[tinyboxs]

It's again crazy that there's no articles about these organisations/forums. Prostasia has got to be notable. Suppose this is because researching them in detail requires a high cringe tolerance.

[Beeblebrox]

It's again crazy that there's no articles about these organisations/forums. Prostasia has got to be notable. Suppose this is because researching them in detail requires a high cringe tolerance.

That is the trick with WP, someone has to want to write an article. I wouldn't even want to research this from my home IP or using my own devices. Maybe someone could go use a free library computer.

[Boing! said Zebedee]

It's again crazy that there's no articles about these organisations/forums. Prostasia has got to be notable. Suppose this is because researching them in detail requires a high cringe tolerance.

That is the trick with WP, someone has to want to write an article. I wouldn't even want to research this from my home IP or using my own devices. Maybe someone could go use a free library computer.

Or a VPN, at least for researching and writing an offline draft. (Not me, though, I still wouldn't want to go near it.)

[Midsize Jake]

The Prostasia Foundation announced on Twitter earlier today that they've hired a new Executive Director to replace Jeremy Malcolm — that being Prof. Gilian Tenbergen of Oswego University, who appears to have a cleaner track record, ostensibly at least.

No doubt this will free up some of Mr. Malcolm's time so that he can focus more on what's really important, such as getting his Wikipedia user account situation ironed out.

[Vigilant]

It's again crazy that there's no articles about these organisations/forums. Prostasia has got to be notable. Suppose this is because researching them in detail requires a high cringe tolerance.

That is the trick with WP, someone has to want to write an article. I wouldn't even want to research this from my home IP or using my own devices. Maybe someone could go use a free library computer.

My mom was a child advocate in the court system for two decades.

I know too much.

[owl be it]

This debacle has inspired me to write a controversial esssay. Don't read it right now as it is not done and badly written.

The essay will be called "No pedophiles" and it will be similar to the child protection policy, but it will explicitly make being a non-offending pedophile a blockable offense because we can't be sure they are not prone to radicalization.

The last I checked, random angry essays did not have the power to "explicitly make" anything a "blockable offense".

[eppur si muove]

Walter Breen married Marion Zimmer Bradley who wrote the popular Mists of Avalon series of Arthurian books as well as the Darkover series. She was widely considered to be a feminist writer and helped create the Society for Creative Anachronism.

Having mentioned the SCA, I thought I would look at the WP article on them. I'm particularly interested in this diff changing

In 2012, SCA agreed to pay $1.3 million to settle a lawsuit brought on behalf of 11 victims of [[child sexual abuse]]. The abuse was committed in Pennsylvania during SCA-related activities by Ben Schragger, who pleaded guilty to criminal charges in 2004. Schragger was a member of SCA at the time of the abuse. His membership was suspended on his arrest and permanently revoked after his plea. When settling the suit, the SCA did not admit to any wrongdoing on the part of the organization.

to

In 2012, SCA agreed to pay $1.3 million to settle a lawsuit brought on behalf of 11 victims of [[child sexual abuse]]. The abuse was committed in Pennsylvania at the private residence of Ben Schragger, who pleaded guilty to criminal charges in 2004. Schragger was a member of SCA at the time of the abuse. His membership was suspended on his arrest and permanently revoked after his plea. The lawsuit contended that the SCA had not conducted a background check on Schragger, though at the time the organization did not perform background checks in general and there is no legal requirement to do so.

Looking at the one reference for this paragraph that is both freely available and working, link I see

Known in the Society as “Lord Ben the Steward,” he led a chapter for more than 10 years and directed the youth program for the society’s East Kingdom, which stretches from Canada to Delaware. Schragger was accused of sexually assaulting nine boys and two girls between the ages of 6 and 16 from June 1999 to August 2003.

SO not just any old "member", but the head of a chapter with responsibility for the youth programme of the society over a large geographical area. Oh and about that East Kingdom, well Wikipedia tells us

In 1968, Bradley moved to Staten Island, New York and founded the Kingdom of the East, holding a tournament that summer to determine the first Eastern King of the SCA.

So a child rapist was put in charge of the youth programme of a region of the SCA founded by a child abuser, whose husband, also active in the SCA, was known to be a child molestor by several of the founders of the SCA. Well I know what I think of the SCA's denial of any wrongdoing on its part.

[eppur si muove]

Having mentioned the SCA, I thought I would look at the WP article on them. I'm particularly interested in this diff changing

In 2012, SCA agreed to pay $1.3 million to settle a lawsuit brought on behalf of 11 victims of [[child sexual abuse]]. The abuse was committed in Pennsylvania during SCA-related activities by Ben Schragger, who pleaded guilty to criminal charges in 2004. Schragger was a member of SCA at the time of the abuse. His membership was suspended on his arrest and permanently revoked after his plea. When settling the suit, the SCA did not admit to any wrongdoing on the part of the organization.

to

In 2012, SCA agreed to pay $1.3 million to settle a lawsuit brought on behalf of 11 victims of [[child sexual abuse]]. The abuse was committed in Pennsylvania at the private residence of Ben Schragger, who pleaded guilty to criminal charges in 2004. Schragger was a member of SCA at the time of the abuse. His membership was suspended on his arrest and permanently revoked after his plea. The lawsuit contended that the SCA had not conducted a background check on Schragger, though at the time the organization did not perform background checks in general and there is no legal requirement to do so.

I've now found this source link and it confirms

According to the affidavit of probable cause, at an SCA event in Carbon County in June 2000, a boy who is now 11 said Schragger took him into a tent

...

The same boy told police that Schragger, at an August 2003 event in Butler County,

...

Schragger was a leader at the Society of Creative Anachronism for more than 10 years. On weekends, up to 20 kids might gather at Schragger's parents' farmhouse for activities.

So the change from "during SCA-related activities" to "at the private residence" is distinctly massaging the facts of the case.

[iii]

This debacle has inspired me to write a controversial esssay. Don't read it right now as it is not done and badly written.

The essay will be called "No pedophiles" and it will be similar to the child protection policy, but it will explicitly make being a non-offending pedophile a blockable offense because we can't be sure they are not prone to radicalization.

The last I checked, random angry essays did not have the power to "explicitly make" anything a "blockable offense".

Nothing has the power on Wikipedia, really. It just goes by what users with permission actually do. If enough blocks happen with rationale that links to the essay, it might as well have the power. Fake it till you make it often works at that website.

[Vigilant]

The SCA has always given off that greasy vibe.

[Tarc]

Responding to a comment from @Talix30 ("MAP (exclusive gay hebephile)..."),

That person's twitter bio also includes "soon to be father".

What the literal fuck...

[tinyboxs]

feels like a joke account. its first tweet addresses the satanic temple to ask about their position on maps.

[Anroth]

feels like a joke account. its first tweet addresses the satanic temple to ask about their position on maps.

I agree, it has the whiff of agent provocateur about it.

[tinyboxs]

And what term do I find trending on (uk) twitter this fine morning? We may be in for another round of notability-bestowing news coverage this pride month.

[eppur si muove]

Now if "minor-aroused person" could be made to trend too, that might start to undermine the euphemism.

[eppur si muove]

And what term do I find trending on (uk) twitter this fine morning? We may be in for another round of notability-bestowing news coverage this pride month.

This has made me go looking again for use of the term on the web. I'm not on Twitter, but get the impression it is mainly people who are against paedophiles exploiting Pride for their own propagandistic purposes.

I did also find this https://unherd.com/2023/04/keep-child-a ... nbow-flag/. The site seems to be one which claims to be being "daring" while advancing conservative views. The article is also by someone, Julie Bindel, who I'm mainly aware of because of what one of my trans friends has told me about her clashes with her. Bindel accepts the version of the pride flag with a paedophile stripe as genuine rather than trolling. But what particularly caught my attention were the comments on the article including several from from paedophile activists, among them the multiply-convicted child pornographer and long time head of PIE Tom O'Connor.

[tinyboxs]

There are many axes here and it's hard to hear the truth over the sound of grinding.

[Beeblebrox]

The far right loonies hate gay people so much that they'll throw in with the pedos they claim to also hate just to score points. The party of family values has turned into the party of "win at all costs, including your own dignity and any semblance of ethics". Gotta own those libs!

[Giraffe Stapler]

Qirtaiba/Jeremy Malcolm provides an update on the ArbCom case he claimed to have started:

Finally I have an update. The defamatory character of the false insinuations that were made about me in justification of my ban brings my appeal within ArbCom's jurisdiction, which handles appeals that are "unsuitable for public discussion". Nevertheless, they have declined to hear the appeal, or even to publicly acknowledge that it was ever made. I have one last resort to pursue, and if that fails, a public information campaign about this failure of process at Wikipedia will follow. Jeremy Malcolm (talk) 01:56, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

[eppur si muove]

Qirtaiba/Jeremy Malcolm provides an update on the ArbCom case he claimed to have started:

Finally I have an update. The defamatory character of the false insinuations that were made about me in justification of my ban brings my appeal within ArbCom's jurisdiction, which handles appeals that are "unsuitable for public discussion". Nevertheless, they have declined to hear the appeal, or even to publicly acknowledge that it was ever made. I have one last resort to pursue, and if that fails, a public information campaign about this failure of process at Wikipedia will follow. Jeremy Malcolm (talk) 01:56, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Given the legalistic language in "The defamatory character of the false insinuations that were made about me in justification of my ban brings my appeal within ArbCom's jurisdiction", I'm wondering if that "one last resort" will be a legal threat aimed at the WMF or not.

[Midsize Jake]

Given the legalistic language in "The defamatory character of the false insinuations that were made about me in justification of my ban brings my appeal within ArbCom's jurisdiction", I'm wondering if that "one last resort" will be a legal threat aimed at the WMF or not.

Naah, he's probably just going to try doing what Kumioko did, and send the Arbcommers about 30 million e-mails that all say "why aren't you responding to my e-mails?" until they finally decide to lodge a complaint with the Commerce Department.

[iii]

Now if "minor-aroused person" could be made to trend too, that might start to undermine the euphemism.

How about "minor-abusing person"?

[eppur si muove]

Now if "minor-aroused person" could be made to trend too, that might start to undermine the euphemism.

How about "minor-abusing person"?

That too for those who have actually done it.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Deepfriedokra posted the following on Qirtaiba's talk page, then thought better of it and reverted themselves. I was momentarily confused how Qirtaiba could use UTRS for an ArbCom block, but then I checked and it's not an ArbCom block.

UTRS appeal #74743

is in process. @El C: I think user's comments have been misconstrued, but as a layman in that area, I can understand how he came across the way he did. The subsequent breast-beating and bellowing did not help. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 13:55, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

[Giraffe Stapler]

Well. It appears that there are "complexities". Appeal denied.

UTRS appeal #74743

is closed. Due to the complexities therein, it would be best for user to email Trust and Safety. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 21:26, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

[Scorpions13256]

Pokelova is a pedophile.

https://www.psychforums.com/paraphilias ... 99-60.html

[Hemiauchenia]

Pokelova is a pedophile.

https://www.psychforums.com/paraphilias ... 99-60.html

Pokelova » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:57 am

Male
Attracted to boys
Ages 0+ (though my favourite range is 8-13)
Non-exclusive nepiophile, pedophile, and hebephile

[Scorpions13256]

I have sent arbcom an email.

[tinyboxs]

Pokelova might just be an attractor in username-space, as we've seen that it's a portmanteau of “Pokemon lover”

[Scorpions13256]

Pokelova might just be an attractor in username-space, as we've seen that it's a portmanteau of “Pokemon lover”

No. He was defending the pro-pedophile editors during this whole debacle. That can't be a coincidence.

[tinyboxs]

The evidence is stronger when combined with this:

Pokelova
Pokelova is a furry from New Zealand who seems fully immersed in the worst of Gen Z internet culture. There's a Mastadon account with the same name on a server that seems to specialize in, uh, technically legal cartoon porn possibly involving cartoon children. It's very NSFW but at least they warn you and make you click to see the images. If you really want to see Pokelova's artwork here is the link. Their profile there links to a profile on a fetish role-playing site which lists the things they are into.

Just the things listed under "Faves" in Pokelova's profile.
3+ Penetration
Age Differences
Alternate Universe
Anal Fisting
Anal Pregnancy
Dick Cleavage
Exhibitionism
Flaccid Cocks
Gaping (Anal)
Hyper Cocks
Incest
Incest (Parental)
Informality
Large Cocks
Male Pregnancy
Monkeys / Primates
Piss Enemas
Public Use
Sex Through Clothes
Son Swap
Speedo
Underage Characters
Underwear Bulges
Watersports
Zoophilia

but note that there appears to be no overlap between the two lists. you might be able to put this down to the higher degree of tabooness with the items of the shorter list

[Vigilant]

Burn him.

[Scorpions13256]

He still hasn't been blocked. How long does arbcom usually take to handle reports?

[Giraffe Stapler]

He still hasn't been blocked. How long does arbcom usually take to handle reports?

You must be new here.

[Catfish Jim & spd]

He still hasn't been blocked. How long does arbcom usually take to handle reports?

You must be new here.

Blocked by me. Had considered it earlier, but wasn't sure if they weren't a free speech advocate rather than a scumbag

[Hemiauchenia]

He still hasn't been blocked. How long does arbcom usually take to handle reports?

You must be new here.

Blocked by me. Had considered it earlier, but wasn't sure if they weren't a free speech advocate rather than a scumbag

Not that I disagree with the block, but its a bit weird to directly link to the Wikipediocracy thread in the block summary, no? Couldn't that be construed as outing?

[Catfish Jim & spd]

He still hasn't been blocked. How long does arbcom usually take to handle reports?

You must be new here.

Blocked by me. Had considered it earlier, but wasn't sure if they weren't a free speech advocate rather than a scumbag

Not that I disagree with the block, but its a bit weird to directly link to the Wikipediocracy thread in the block summary, no? Couldn't that be construed as outing?

"Outing" in what respect?

[Hemiauchenia]

He still hasn't been blocked. How long does arbcom usually take to handle reports?

You must be new here.

Blocked by me. Had considered it earlier, but wasn't sure if they weren't a free speech advocate rather than a scumbag

Not that I disagree with the block, but its a bit weird to directly link to the Wikipediocracy thread in the block summary, no? Couldn't that be construed as outing?

"Outing" in what respect?

In the sense that it links to the off-wiki account of someone, even if they're pseudononymous. I've always been told by admins that linking to pseudononymous accounts with the same username as Wikipedians, even if it doesn't include their real name or other personal information, still counts as outing.

[Catfish Jim & spd]

He still hasn't been blocked. How long does arbcom usually take to handle reports?

You must be new here.

Blocked by me. Had considered it earlier, but wasn't sure if they weren't a free speech advocate rather than a scumbag

Not that I disagree with the block, but its a bit weird to directly link to the Wikipediocracy thread in the block summary, no? Couldn't that be construed as outing?

"Outing" in what respect?

In the sense that it links to the off-wiki account of someone, even if they're pseudononymous. I've always been told by admins that linking to pseudononymous accounts with the same username as Wikipedians, even if it doesn't include their real name or other personal information, still counts as outing.

I'm not overly worried about that. I won't discuss or defend my actions. I see Tamzin has censored my edits... don't do that.

[tarantino]

Well here's a blast from the past. The year old account Blissyu2 (T-C-L) posted on Pokelova's talk page in March. He was blocked a day later as a sock. He was one of the early adopters of wikipedia review.