Such a pity. All potential FA candidates.MrErnie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:17 pmThere's a number of articles in vanished user space that don't appear to have been touched in a while.
User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbianism in Gibraltar (T-H-L)
User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbians in the Spanish democratic transition period (T-H-L)
User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbians during the socialist government of Felipe González (T-H-L)
User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbians during the socialist government of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero (T-H-L)
User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbians during the conservative government of José María Aznar: Revision history (T-H-L)
The mess Laura Hale left behind
Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
<|>
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Not that I found.
It's a fossilized scat graveyard.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Let us know if some AFDs pop up on your radar. I believe some folks here (myself included) would like to join the firing squad.
<|>
Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
I would nominate a few but I don't want the WMF to ban me for harassment.
Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
I would start with the ones I linked that are languishing in user space, untouched for almost 3 years now. The 4 articles regarding lesbians during a phase of Spanish government should be combined into one article titled more appropriately, as they all share much of the same content.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
There a bunch of articles on women's national teams where the national team in question has never played a game...MrErnie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:13 pmI would start with the ones I linked that are languishing in user space, untouched for almost 3 years now. The 4 articles regarding lesbians during a phase of Spanish government should be combined into one article titled more appropriately, as they all share much of the same content.
Let's start with some low hanging fruit:
Cameroonian_Sports_Federation_for_the_Physically_Disabled (T-H-L)
Malaysia_national_cerebral_palsy_football_team (T-H-L)
Oman_at_the_2016_Summer_Paralympics (T-H-L)
Myanmar_at_the_2016_Summer_Paralympics (T-H-L)
In fact, all of the ${Country}_at_the_2016_Summer_Paralympics articles should likely be folded into a single article.
Iran_women's_national_sitting_volleyball_team (T-H-L)
Russia_women's_national_goalball_team (T-H-L) is especially funny.
Whole sections of crap like
which are then replicated in a table below.Regional championships
The team competes in the IBSA Europe goalball region. Groups A and C are held one year, and Group B the following year. Strong teams move towards Group A.[citation needed]
2007 Antalya
The team competed at the 2007 IBSA Goalball European Championships, hosted by the Turkish Blind Sports Federation, in Antalya, Turkey with 11 teams contesting the women's competition. The team finished last.[9] This was their debut, with a men's team having played at major international tournaments.[8]
2009 Munich (Group A)
Munich, Germany hosted the 2009 European Championships with eleven teams taking part. The team finished the event in eighth place.[10]
2013 Konya (Group A)
The team competed at the 2013 IBSA Goalball European Championships, Group A, from 1 to 11 November 2013, at Konya, Turkey, where they finished first.[11]
2015 Kaunas (Group A)
The team competed in the 2015 IBSA Goalball European A Championships in Kaunas, Lithuania. They lost the gold medal game to Turkey, 0:5.[7]
2017 Pajulahti (Group A)
The team competed in the 2017 IBSA Goalball European A Championships from 15 to 23 September 2017, at Pajulahti, Nastola, Finland. First in Pool Y, in the gold medal match, they beat Turkey, 6:3.[7]
2019 Rostock (Group A)
The team competed in the 2019 IBSA Goalball European A Championships from 5 to 14 October 2019, in Rostock, Germany. Playing in Pool X, they placed first in the pool, and fifth in the final standings.[7]
Athletes included: Irina Arestova (Krasnodar Territory), Elizaveta Kemesheva (Vologda Region), Natalya Makoveeva (Tula Region), Anastasiia Mazur (Moscow Region/Kaluga Region), Yuliya Mikhailova (Kaluga Region), and Anna Shevchenko (Vologda Region). Their coach was Ilkam Nabiev.[12]
The league/series "IBSA Goalball European Championships" is a redlink as are all of the player links.
There are slews of articles on 'goalball', each article differentiated by country, gender and age group.
All of these articles should be merged into a single article.
Next up: "Floorball".
No, really.
Rather. Rinse. Repeat.
Multitudinous articles differentiating based on Country, Gender and Age Group.
All of these articles could be folded into a single article, or, better yet, a new article entitled "Laura Hale's garbage sport combinatoric expansion for pay".
Next up: Cerebral Palsy Football
Great_Britain_national_cerebral_palsy_football_team (T-H-L)
Yes, it's all the same as above,
${Country}_national_cerebral_palsy_football_team
Next up: ${Country}_at_the_2016_Summer_Paralympics
As above, merge them all into a single article
Next up: Softball
Representative article Venezuela_men's_junior_national_softball_team (T-H-L)
More of the ${Country}_${Gender}_${AgeGroup}_national_softball_team combinatorics.
Almost all articles are still stubs after 8 years.
Merge into one or several (small number) articles or delete them all (best bet)
Next up: Inline Hockey Teams.
Representative article Namibia_women's_national_inline_hockey_team (T-H-L)
More of the ${Country}_${Gender}_national_${Sport}_team bullshit.
Merge into one article
Next up: Several hundred stub BLPs that haven't been touched in 8 years.
Representative article Juan_José_Lara_Ortiz (T-H-L)
That's the entire article.Juan José Lara Ortiz
In this Spanish name, the first or paternal surname is Lara and the second or maternal family name is Ortiz.
Juan José Lara Ortiz
Juan Jose Lara Ortiz (born November 30, 1965, in Sevilla) is a wheelchair basketball athlete from Spain. He has a physical disability: he is 1 point wheelchair basketball player. He played wheelchair basketball at the 1996 Summer Paralympics. His team was fourth.[1]
References
Sports portal
"Biografías" (in Spanish). Spain: Comité Paralímpico Español. 2012. Retrieved 17 May 2013.
Notice the various interesting grammar issues.
Notice that she couldn't even get the name correct in all three places.
Most of the BLPs are that short and that thinly sourced and were created with one purpose, to support Laura Hale's HOPAU paid gig by making the various team disability sports articles seem less thin.
Mass AfD them and let anyone who objects pick out those that should stay and make their case.
Next up: ${Country}_at_the_${Year}_${Season}_Paralympics
Representative article Spain_at_the_1980_Summer_Paralympics (T-H-L)
Best, merge them all into a single article or, perhaps by ${Year} at worst.
Next up: Abortion_in_${State/Territory}
Representative article Abortion_in_American_Samoa (T-H-L)
Merge into a table in an article Abortion in the US per state....
Next up: Paralympic classification articles
Representative article PR1_W1x (T-H-L)
Copy paste articles that all contain the same basic prose and use the same references.
Merge into a single article with tables.
In summary, at least 90% of the articles created by Laura Hale were obviously made with the specific intent to bump up article count to meet production goals and/or productivity perceptions that she had committed to with HOPAU.
All of the articles in the categories listed above should be looked up with extreme suspicion and moved to delete or merge.
It's a giant cesspit. All of it.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Lest we forget.
Articles in subpages
Tons more of the same fatuous garbage that was going to be added as choleric night soil to mainspace.
Articles in subpages
Tons more of the same fatuous garbage that was going to be added as choleric night soil to mainspace.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
If her defenders aren't around to muck things up, I think the regular denizens of AfD space would most likely vote to get rid of this cruft.
Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Or just merged into the existing LGBT rights in Spain (T-H-L), since there is little in them that is specific to lesbians.MrErnie wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:13 pmI would start with the ones I linked that are languishing in user space, untouched for almost 3 years now. The 4 articles regarding lesbians during a phase of Spanish government should be combined into one article titled more appropriately, as they all share much of the same content.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Yikes - I do remember some of that from the time when it was happening but I'd not seen the full extent of it.Vigilant wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:10 pmIn summary, at least 90% of the articles created by Laura Hale were obviously made with the specific intent to bump up article count to meet production goals and/or productivity perceptions that she had committed to with HOPAU.
All of the articles in the categories listed above should be looked up with extreme suspicion and moved to delete or merge.
It's a giant cesspit. All of it.
It's Gibraltarpedia-esque...
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
The most interesting thing about this mess to me is that she is barely literate.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
It's the largest paid editing scandal I'm aware of in wikipedia history.
And nobody wants to talk about it on en.wp.
They let Laura Hale completely get away with suborning the encyclopedia because she was WikiRoyalty.
Clean it all up, wikibros. It's a fucking embarrassment.
And nobody wants to talk about it on en.wp.
They let Laura Hale completely get away with suborning the encyclopedia because she was WikiRoyalty.
Clean it all up, wikibros. It's a fucking embarrassment.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
It just hit me.
All of the oldtimers knew.
Laura Hale was violating the brightest of red lines and they all knew.
All the insider wikicliquiots knew that Laura Hale and Maria Sefidari Huici were married and that Laura was a 'made man'.
Raystorm (Maria Sefidari Huici) Chair of the Board, was in on the grift taking pictures and getting travel junkets.
The rest of the Board knew since Maria had to file a Conflict of Interest notice with respect to Laura.
Jimmy Wales knew from the board recusal.
Doc James knew from the board recusal.
Katherine Maker knew. Maria's recusal could have made that clear.
That means the rest of the C-suite types likely knew.
Courcelles (Brad Brown, husband of Karen Brown) ARBCOM, checkuser, oversighter knew because he was in on the HOPAU scam.
Karen Brown, Trust&Safety knew because her husband was in on the grift. This means the rest of Trust&Safety must have known.
Roger Bamford (Victuallers) of Gibralterpedia infamy knew. He was in on the scam.
Notice how many other WMUK types case screaming to her aid when her work was criticized.
Women in Red types knew. They always flocked to defend Laura.
SlimVirgin came to Laura's rescue several times.
Her network likely knew.
ARBCOM knew. They saw the T&S "evidence" and most of them read here.
They knew Fram was being railroaded. They knew it. And they let it happen.
Only poor Fram, trying to do the right thing, didn't know.
And SandyGeorgia, who tried and gave up.
The defense of Laura Hale wasn't organic. It was planned from within the highest ranks of the WMF.
They organized and incited the largest on-wiki riot in the history of the project to protect a paid editing gig.
I welcome discussion/disagreement.
Is the above scenario where almost everyone knew Laura was full on paid editing certain? Likely?
What other scenario is more likely than this one.
All of the oldtimers knew.
Laura Hale was violating the brightest of red lines and they all knew.
All the insider wikicliquiots knew that Laura Hale and Maria Sefidari Huici were married and that Laura was a 'made man'.
Raystorm (Maria Sefidari Huici) Chair of the Board, was in on the grift taking pictures and getting travel junkets.
The rest of the Board knew since Maria had to file a Conflict of Interest notice with respect to Laura.
Jimmy Wales knew from the board recusal.
Doc James knew from the board recusal.
Katherine Maker knew. Maria's recusal could have made that clear.
That means the rest of the C-suite types likely knew.
Courcelles (Brad Brown, husband of Karen Brown) ARBCOM, checkuser, oversighter knew because he was in on the HOPAU scam.
Karen Brown, Trust&Safety knew because her husband was in on the grift. This means the rest of Trust&Safety must have known.
Roger Bamford (Victuallers) of Gibralterpedia infamy knew. He was in on the scam.
Notice how many other WMUK types case screaming to her aid when her work was criticized.
Women in Red types knew. They always flocked to defend Laura.
SlimVirgin came to Laura's rescue several times.
Her network likely knew.
ARBCOM knew. They saw the T&S "evidence" and most of them read here.
They knew Fram was being railroaded. They knew it. And they let it happen.
Only poor Fram, trying to do the right thing, didn't know.
And SandyGeorgia, who tried and gave up.
The defense of Laura Hale wasn't organic. It was planned from within the highest ranks of the WMF.
They organized and incited the largest on-wiki riot in the history of the project to protect a paid editing gig.
I welcome discussion/disagreement.
Is the above scenario where almost everyone knew Laura was full on paid editing certain? Likely?
What other scenario is more likely than this one.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Lest we forget the off-wiki coordination and vote stacking.
https://groups.google.com/g/hopau
All saved forever in glorious Technicolor.
https://groups.google.com/g/hopau
All saved forever in glorious Technicolor.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
ProTip: When you delete your account and storm off, remember to close out your dropbox.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
This seems like it shouldn't be allowed.
Morons planning to flood mainspace with garbage articles for pay
Morons planning to flood mainspace with garbage articles for pay
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Conspiring to violate GNG for articles that get Laura Paid!
https://groups.google.com/g/hopau/c/a3H ... tOqcTQcA4J
https://groups.google.com/g/hopau/c/a3H ... tOqcTQcA4J
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
She knows her stub articles are shit and she's trying to get meatpuppets to help her fend off people looking at her work.
https://groups.google.com/g/hopau/c/sjH ... h1w9TtDQAJ
https://groups.google.com/g/hopau/c/sjH ... h1w9TtDQAJ
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Ooh, off-wiki canvassing!Vigilant wrote: ↑Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:38 amLest we forget the off-wiki coordination and vote stacking.
https://groups.google.com/g/hopau
All saved forever in glorious Technicolor.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
The canvassing was constant.
Every time an article in the HOPAU domain came up, there was a post on that group to save/improve it.
Every time an article in the HOPAU domain came up, there was a post on that group to save/improve it.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Your posts are beautiful, Vig.Vigilant wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:52 pmLest we forget.
Articles in subpages
Tons more of the same fatuous garbage that was going to be added as choleric night soil to mainspace.
This whole saga was so wretched and strange... a wonder nobody has said this stuff onwiki yet. I imagine they are afraid they would be pilloried for conspiring to suppress women's voices?
The artist formerly known as Yeet Bae...
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Almost everyone complicit in Laura Hale's grift is still at the WMF or is a part of the en.wp wikirati.owl be it wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:17 pmYour posts are beautiful, Vig.Vigilant wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:52 pmLest we forget.
Articles in subpages
Tons more of the same fatuous garbage that was going to be added as choleric night soil to mainspace.
This whole saga was so wretched and strange... a wonder nobody has said this stuff onwiki yet. I imagine they are afraid they would be pilloried for conspiring to suppress women's voices?
And Fram is still the only one who received any punishment from this debacle ... for trying to do the right thing.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Does this open cesspit of clearly garbage, paid editing articles that everyone refuses to look at or deal with strike anyone else as odd?
Thankfully, these 'profiles in courage' at en.wp and the WMF weren't in charge at Chernobyl.
Reminds me of this.
Thankfully, these 'profiles in courage' at en.wp and the WMF weren't in charge at Chernobyl.
Reminds me of this.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
More likely few people know or care. There's all sorts of dreck in subpages, let alone forgotten articles in random corners. None of this stuff is collecting page views. For most practical purposes it doesn't really exist.owl be it wrote: ↑Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:17 pmYour posts are beautiful, Vig.Vigilant wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:52 pmLest we forget.
Articles in subpages
Tons more of the same fatuous garbage that was going to be added as choleric night soil to mainspace.
This whole saga was so wretched and strange... a wonder nobody has said this stuff onwiki yet. I imagine they are afraid they would be pilloried for conspiring to suppress women's voices?
Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Ming thought about nomming it but decided it was better not to attract attention. OTOH it seems to Ming that a speedy reason of "dead drafts of disappeared editors" would make sense.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
They can't be speedy deleted since that criterion does not exist, however, the only reason for draft articles to be in user space is the presumption that the user will improve them at some point in the future. If the user is vanished, that is an affirmative statement that they will never return, and therefore will never improve the drafts. That is sufficient reason to move them out of user space and into draft space, and if they don't get edited in the next six months, deletion is basically automatic.
Anyone with page mover rights can do this at any time.
EDIT: I looked at a few, and it appears all the "abortion in <state>" ones are now redirects to actual mainspace articles. I feel like those can all be speedy deleted as housekeeping, they aren't useful redirects. She moved them herself but didn't have the userrights to suppress the redirects.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Ok, that was tedious as hell, but I deleted all the abortion redirects. Turns out a few of them were not redirects but were states where there is already a mainspace article so they still qualified as housekeeping.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:32 pm
all the "abortion in <state>" ones are now redirects to actual mainspace articles. I feel like those can all be speedy deleted as housekeeping, they aren't useful redirects. She moved them herself but didn't have the userrights to suppress the redirects.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Are you getting any pushback?
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
I'm sure somebody has noticed by now but nobody has said anything. These were useless redirects with no incoming links so there's no real reason for anyone to want them back.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Look again. I went ahead and moved anything that looked like draft article to draft space. It was even more tedious than deleting all the useless redirects but it's done now. The few template drafts still in there would need to go through MFD I guess, if anyone cares.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
I don't understand the need for this. There were drafts in someone's userspace? And they weren't good? So what? It feels like this action is designed to get the drafts deleted if they aren't edited for six months (or whatever it is). I have to say, it feels a bit vindictive to me.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:44 pmLook again. I went ahead and moved anything that looked like draft article to draft space. It was even more tedious than deleting all the useless redirects but it's done now. The few template drafts still in there would need to go through MFD I guess, if anyone cares.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Deleting shitty articles created by a paid editor is vindictive?Giraffe Stapler wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:08 pmI don't understand the need for this. There were drafts in someone's userspace? And they weren't good? So what? It feels like this action is designed to get the drafts deleted if they aren't edited for six months (or whatever it is). I have to say, it feels a bit vindictive to me.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:44 pmLook again. I went ahead and moved anything that looked like draft article to draft space. It was even more tedious than deleting all the useless redirects but it's done now. The few template drafts still in there would need to go through MFD I guess, if anyone cares.
Hmmm.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
As I mentioned above, the only reason for drafts to stay in userspace is the presumption that the user hosting them intends to improve them. Vanishing is a clear statement that that will literally never happen, so as far as I'm concerned this is just routine housekeeping. If anyone sees anything worth improving they are more than welcome to do so, or to userfy it in their own userspace to do so in the future.
Here's the logs of all the moves in case anyone is seriously interested in improving these:
Actually, looking at Wikipedia:Courtesy vanishing (T-H-L), as written policy actually says that all user subpages are supposed to just be deleted when doing the vanishing.
Here's the logs of all the moves in case anyone is seriously interested in improving these:
11:38, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User talk:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War to Draft talk:Women on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:38, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War to Draft:Women on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
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information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom
- Giraffe Stapler
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
First of all, the "policy" is not a policy at all, but a guideline. Second, it says "typically" user subpages are deleted. My feeling has always been that if users want to vanish, everything except their talk page should be deleted. The talk page should never be deleted. Privacy concerns should be dealt with by oversight if needed.Beeblebrox wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:15 amAs I mentioned above, the only reason for drafts to stay in userspace is the presumption that the user hosting them intends to improve them. Vanishing is a clear statement that that will literally never happen, so as far as I'm concerned this is just routine housekeeping. If anyone sees anything worth improving they are more than welcome to do so, or to userfy it in their own userspace to do so in the future.
Actually, looking at Wikipedia:Courtesy vanishing (T-H-L), as written policy actually says that all user subpages are supposed to just be deleted when doing the vanishing.
I very much doubt that there's anything worth keeping or improving, but why bother to do anything to them? I'm no fan of Laura Hale, but I think this will come back to bite you in the ass.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
I really don't see how. I'll grant that a number of Wikipedians have surprised me with their ability to get offended and upset about truly insignificant things, but I can't see how a little pile of page moves is any kind of a big deal.Giraffe Stapler wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:40 amI'm no fan of Laura Hale, but I think this will come back to bite you in the ass.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom
Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
What can we do to clean up the harm administered to Fram and Laura Hale's many other victims?
- Midsize Jake
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Who else got banned?
If someone really feels victimized, then it's probably too late to "clean up," if that's even possible. But one thing they could do, in order to allow for a small measure of vindication for those people — which might be adequate redress in some cases — is to make the rules more explicit as to how many articles you can write about essentially the same subject without getting express permission first. Then set up a clear guideline to the effect that "swamping" what should be a limited subject area with dozens of articles ("broken out" in a way that's obviously an effort to increase the user's article count) is unacceptable, or at least "highly discouraged."
There may already be a rule against mass stub creation, but all I could come up with (without putting tons of time into looking) was WP:LISTSTUFF, which is just an essay suggesting people make lists instead of lots of stubs.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
There are pages concerning bot-like editing that say explicit permission is needed for creating articles without human oversight. By this I mean articles generated using a template, which is clearly what happened here. With the lack of human oversight shown by the egregious errors. Parts of 'Wikipedia:Walled garden' probably also apply.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Walled_garden
There are also bits of WP:NOT that apply, such as the 3rd bit of 'not a directory':
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Walled_garden
There are also bits of WP:NOT that apply, such as the 3rd bit of 'not a directory':
The excessive level of breakdown across Paralympic sports, nationalities and disabilities probably drove a truck through that. Not helped by the 'feeling' that sport is an exception to this 'rule'..."Non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations, such as "people from ethnic / cultural / religious group X employed by organization Y" or "restaurants specializing in food type X in city Y". Cross-categories such as these are not considered a sufficient basis for creating an article, unless the intersection of those categories is in some way a culturally significant phenomenon."
- Vigilant
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
How about forcing the adoption of process rules that provide for basic fairness in proceedings?
* Clear rules of evidence
* No private evidence
* The right to face your accuser
* The right to participate in your own defense on wiki
* No forum shopping to the WMF to bypass local dispute resolution
* Mandatory declarations of conflicts on wiki
- Laura/Maria
- Courcelles/Karen Brown
* ARBCOM to follow the rules and not just make shit up
- Reworking evidence after the workshop is closed
- Reworking votes after adopted resolutions don't give you the desired outcome
- Mandatory recusal with clear criteria
- Neutral clerking with clear rules
- So many more in the Framageddon
* Clear rules of evidence
* No private evidence
* The right to face your accuser
* The right to participate in your own defense on wiki
* No forum shopping to the WMF to bypass local dispute resolution
* Mandatory declarations of conflicts on wiki
- Laura/Maria
- Courcelles/Karen Brown
* ARBCOM to follow the rules and not just make shit up
- Reworking evidence after the workshop is closed
- Reworking votes after adopted resolutions don't give you the desired outcome
- Mandatory recusal with clear criteria
- Neutral clerking with clear rules
- So many more in the Framageddon
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
How about it ARBCOMmers?Vigilant wrote: ↑Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:42 amHow about forcing the adoption of process rules that provide for basic fairness in proceedings?
* Clear rules of evidence
* No private evidence
* The right to face your accuser
* The right to participate in your own defense on wiki
* No forum shopping to the WMF to bypass local dispute resolution
* Mandatory declarations of conflicts on wiki
- Laura/Maria
- Courcelles/Karen Brown
* ARBCOM to follow the rules and not just make shit up
- Reworking evidence after the workshop is closed
- Reworking votes after adopted resolutions don't give you the desired outcome
- Mandatory recusal with clear criteria
- Neutral clerking with clear rules
- So many more in the Framageddon
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Since you're asking for arbs specifically, I'm assuming you're asking for the committee to adopt these rules? I'll try and reply to them.
* Clear rules of evidence -The way it basically works now is if someone presents evidence of no worth, it doesn't have any effect on the case. I'm not sure what a further rule would even look like.
* No private evidence- Non-starter. Checkuser evidence must be submitted privately, a lot of other private evidence is private because it would violate the outing policy. However, the committee has being fairly strict about refusing to act on private complaints that have no valid reason to be private.
* The right to face your accuser- Generally this is already the case.
* The right to participate in your own defense on wiki-Also generally the case. We usually won't have a case where the parties are not able to participate.
* No forum shopping to the WMF to bypass local dispute resolution-Totally agree, T&S is only supposed to act in the "worst of the worst" type of cases. That being said we aren't able to place restrictions on the office, I guess that would be a matter for the board.
* Mandatory declarations of conflicts on wiki
- Laura/Maria
- Courcelles/Karen Brown
-I agree with this as well, I feel like it should be a foundation-level policy that they enforce on the board and the staff. There's no real way for the committee to do it.
* ARBCOM to follow the rules and not just make shit up. -I feel like the committee has been better about this lately. The Fram case was an exceptional circumstance, and the office got a clear message from the committee and the community that they overstepped and handled it badly. My main feeling toward the arbs who had to deal with that is sympathy, they were in a crappy position and did the best they could with it.
- Reworking evidence after the workshop is closed- When did that happen?
- Reworking votes after adopted resolutions don't give you the desired outcome-(I'm assuming you mean new proposals during the proposed decision phase?) What a case needs is a clear result. Sometimes we don't get there on the first try, so new proposals are made to try and arrive at a result.
- Mandatory recusal with clear criteria-I think we're pretty good at this without it being mandatory. I can only recall one instance where the committee had to seriously pressure an arb to recuse.
- Neutral clerking with clear rules-I agree this is an area that could use some improvement. This is not to say I blame the clerks, what is needed is better cues from the committee.
- So many more in the Framageddon-per my above remarks, I think it's best to move on from that and try to do better, not to dwell on it.
Well, I took a shot at it....How about it ARBCOMmers?
Last edited by Midsize Jake on Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote tags
Reason: Fixed quote tags
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom
- Vigilant
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
- Randy from Boise
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
- Vigilant
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Since Brad is back to editing on the regular, someone should follow up with him on his role in the Laura Hale/Maria Sefidari Fuici scandal, especially around Australian para-olympians and WMF paid for travel.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Will Brad just skate on his involvement in the largest scandal in en.wp/WMF history?
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
- Randy from Boise
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
Forgotten by whom? Clearly not everyone...Randy from Boise wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:03 pmI'm not quite sure how you're measuring the mass of scandals, but I will say that the Laura Hale saga is by now forgotten.
t
- Vigilant
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Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind
As long as her enablers walk the fields of en.wp, I shall be Vigilant.
In other news,
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... oconf_2023
In other news,
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... oconf_2023
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.