The mess Laura Hale left behind


User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:50 pm

Ada Sinn wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:32 pm
Vigilant wrote:
Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:41 pm
Almost all of these articles are still extant and terrible.

Wikipedia - always improving.
Hasn't there been some AFD activity in that area recently?
Not that I found.

It's a fossilized scat graveyard.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Ada Sinn
Critic
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:48 pm

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Ada Sinn » Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:22 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:50 pm
Ada Sinn wrote:
Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:32 pm
Vigilant wrote:
Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:41 pm
Almost all of these articles are still extant and terrible.

Wikipedia - always improving.
Hasn't there been some AFD activity in that area recently?
Not that I found.

It's a fossilized scat graveyard.
Let us know if some AFDs pop up on your radar. I believe some folks here (myself included) would like to join the firing squad.
<|>

MrErnie
Habitué
Posts: 1172
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:15 am

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by MrErnie » Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:26 pm

I would nominate a few but I don't want the WMF to ban me for harassment.

User avatar
Jim
Blue Meanie
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am
Wikipedia User: Begoon
Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
Location: NSW

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Jim » Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:47 pm

MrErnie wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:26 pm
I would nominate a few but I don't want the WMF to ban me for harassment.
Which ones would you nominate?

MrErnie
Habitué
Posts: 1172
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:15 am

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by MrErnie » Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:13 pm

Jim wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:47 pm
MrErnie wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:26 pm
I would nominate a few but I don't want the WMF to ban me for harassment.
Which ones would you nominate?
I would start with the ones I linked that are languishing in user space, untouched for almost 3 years now. The 4 articles regarding lesbians during a phase of Spanish government should be combined into one article titled more appropriately, as they all share much of the same content.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:10 pm

MrErnie wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:13 pm
Jim wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:47 pm
MrErnie wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 12:26 pm
I would nominate a few but I don't want the WMF to ban me for harassment.
Which ones would you nominate?
I would start with the ones I linked that are languishing in user space, untouched for almost 3 years now. The 4 articles regarding lesbians during a phase of Spanish government should be combined into one article titled more appropriately, as they all share much of the same content.
There a bunch of articles on women's national teams where the national team in question has never played a game...

Let's start with some low hanging fruit:

Cameroonian_Sports_Federation_for_the_Physically_Disabled (T-H-L)

Malaysia_national_cerebral_palsy_football_team (T-H-L)

Oman_at_the_2016_Summer_Paralympics (T-H-L)
Myanmar_at_the_2016_Summer_Paralympics (T-H-L)
In fact, all of the ${Country}_at_the_2016_Summer_Paralympics articles should likely be folded into a single article.

Iran_women's_national_sitting_volleyball_team (T-H-L)

Russia_women's_national_goalball_team (T-H-L) is especially funny.
Whole sections of crap like
Regional championships

The team competes in the IBSA Europe goalball region. Groups A and C are held one year, and Group B the following year. Strong teams move towards Group A.[citation needed]
2007 Antalya

The team competed at the 2007 IBSA Goalball European Championships, hosted by the Turkish Blind Sports Federation, in Antalya, Turkey with 11 teams contesting the women's competition. The team finished last.[9] This was their debut, with a men's team having played at major international tournaments.[8]
2009 Munich (Group A)

Munich, Germany hosted the 2009 European Championships with eleven teams taking part. The team finished the event in eighth place.[10]
2013 Konya (Group A)

The team competed at the 2013 IBSA Goalball European Championships, Group A, from 1 to 11 November 2013, at Konya, Turkey, where they finished first.[11]
2015 Kaunas (Group A)

The team competed in the 2015 IBSA Goalball European A Championships in Kaunas, Lithuania. They lost the gold medal game to Turkey, 0:5.[7]
2017 Pajulahti (Group A)

The team competed in the 2017 IBSA Goalball European A Championships from 15 to 23 September 2017, at Pajulahti, Nastola, Finland. First in Pool Y, in the gold medal match, they beat Turkey, 6:3.[7]
2019 Rostock (Group A)

The team competed in the 2019 IBSA Goalball European A Championships from 5 to 14 October 2019, in Rostock, Germany. Playing in Pool X, they placed first in the pool, and fifth in the final standings.[7]

Athletes included: Irina Arestova (Krasnodar Territory), Elizaveta Kemesheva (Vologda Region), Natalya Makoveeva (Tula Region), Anastasiia Mazur (Moscow Region/Kaluga Region), Yuliya Mikhailova (Kaluga Region), and Anna Shevchenko (Vologda Region). Their coach was Ilkam Nabiev.[12]
which are then replicated in a table below.
The league/series "IBSA Goalball European Championships" is a redlink as are all of the player links.

There are slews of articles on 'goalball', each article differentiated by country, gender and age group.
All of these articles should be merged into a single article.


Next up: "Floorball".
No, really.

Rather. Rinse. Repeat.

Multitudinous articles differentiating based on Country, Gender and Age Group.

All of these articles could be folded into a single article, or, better yet, a new article entitled "Laura Hale's garbage sport combinatoric expansion for pay".


Next up: Cerebral Palsy Football
Great_Britain_national_cerebral_palsy_football_team (T-H-L)

Yes, it's all the same as above,
${Country}_national_cerebral_palsy_football_team


Next up: ${Country}_at_the_2016_Summer_Paralympics
As above, merge them all into a single article


Next up: Softball
Representative article Venezuela_men's_junior_national_softball_team (T-H-L)

More of the ${Country}_${Gender}_${AgeGroup}_national_softball_team combinatorics.
Almost all articles are still stubs after 8 years.
Merge into one or several (small number) articles or delete them all (best bet)


Next up: Inline Hockey Teams.
Representative article Namibia_women's_national_inline_hockey_team (T-H-L)
More of the ${Country}_${Gender}_national_${Sport}_team bullshit.
Merge into one article


Next up: Several hundred stub BLPs that haven't been touched in 8 years.
Representative article Juan_José_Lara_Ortiz (T-H-L)
Juan José Lara Ortiz

In this Spanish name, the first or paternal surname is Lara and the second or maternal family name is Ortiz.

Juan José Lara Ortiz

Juan Jose Lara Ortiz (born November 30, 1965, in Sevilla) is a wheelchair basketball athlete from Spain. He has a physical disability: he is 1 point wheelchair basketball player. He played wheelchair basketball at the 1996 Summer Paralympics. His team was fourth.[1]
References

Sports portal

"Biografías" (in Spanish). Spain: Comité Paralímpico Español. 2012. Retrieved 17 May 2013.
That's the entire article.
Notice the various interesting grammar issues.
Notice that she couldn't even get the name correct in all three places.

Most of the BLPs are that short and that thinly sourced and were created with one purpose, to support Laura Hale's HOPAU paid gig by making the various team disability sports articles seem less thin.

Mass AfD them and let anyone who objects pick out those that should stay and make their case.


Next up: ${Country}_at_the_${Year}_${Season}_Paralympics
Representative article Spain_at_the_1980_Summer_Paralympics (T-H-L)

Best, merge them all into a single article or, perhaps by ${Year} at worst.


Next up: Abortion_in_${State/Territory}
Representative article Abortion_in_American_Samoa (T-H-L)

Merge into a table in an article Abortion in the US per state....


Next up: Paralympic classification articles
Representative article PR1_W1x (T-H-L)

Copy paste articles that all contain the same basic prose and use the same references.
Merge into a single article with tables.


In summary, at least 90% of the articles created by Laura Hale were obviously made with the specific intent to bump up article count to meet production goals and/or productivity perceptions that she had committed to with HOPAU.

All of the articles in the categories listed above should be looked up with extreme suspicion and moved to delete or merge.

It's a giant cesspit. All of it.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:52 pm

Lest we forget.

Articles in subpages

Tons more of the same fatuous garbage that was going to be added as choleric night soil to mainspace.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
rhindle
Habitué
Posts: 1451
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:44 pm
Wikipedia User: Kafkaesque
Wikipedia Review Member: rhindle
Location: 'Murica

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by rhindle » Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:52 pm

If her defenders aren't around to muck things up, I think the regular denizens of AfD space would most likely vote to get rid of this cruft.

User avatar
RL0919
Contributor
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:02 pm
Wikipedia User: RL0919

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by RL0919 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:21 pm

MrErnie wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 3:13 pm
I would start with the ones I linked that are languishing in user space, untouched for almost 3 years now. The 4 articles regarding lesbians during a phase of Spanish government should be combined into one article titled more appropriately, as they all share much of the same content.
Or just merged into the existing LGBT rights in Spain (T-H-L), since there is little in them that is specific to lesbians.

User avatar
Jim
Blue Meanie
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am
Wikipedia User: Begoon
Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
Location: NSW

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Jim » Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:39 am

Vigilant wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:10 pm
In summary, at least 90% of the articles created by Laura Hale were obviously made with the specific intent to bump up article count to meet production goals and/or productivity perceptions that she had committed to with HOPAU.

All of the articles in the categories listed above should be looked up with extreme suspicion and moved to delete or merge.

It's a giant cesspit. All of it.
Yikes - I do remember some of that from the time when it was happening but I'd not seen the full extent of it.
It's Gibraltarpedia-esque...

User avatar
DanMurphy
Habitué
Posts: 3153
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Wikipedia User: Dan Murphy
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by DanMurphy » Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:51 am

The most interesting thing about this mess to me is that she is barely literate.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:18 am

It's the largest paid editing scandal I'm aware of in wikipedia history.

And nobody wants to talk about it on en.wp.

They let Laura Hale completely get away with suborning the encyclopedia because she was WikiRoyalty.

Clean it all up, wikibros. It's a fucking embarrassment.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:27 am

It just hit me.

All of the oldtimers knew.
Laura Hale was violating the brightest of red lines and they all knew.

All the insider wikicliquiots knew that Laura Hale and Maria Sefidari Huici were married and that Laura was a 'made man'.

Raystorm (Maria Sefidari Huici) Chair of the Board, was in on the grift taking pictures and getting travel junkets.
The rest of the Board knew since Maria had to file a Conflict of Interest notice with respect to Laura.

Jimmy Wales knew from the board recusal.

Doc James knew from the board recusal.

Katherine Maker knew. Maria's recusal could have made that clear.
That means the rest of the C-suite types likely knew.

Courcelles (Brad Brown, husband of Karen Brown) ARBCOM, checkuser, oversighter knew because he was in on the HOPAU scam.

Karen Brown, Trust&Safety knew because her husband was in on the grift. This means the rest of Trust&Safety must have known.

Roger Bamford (Victuallers) of Gibralterpedia infamy knew. He was in on the scam.
Notice how many other WMUK types case screaming to her aid when her work was criticized.

Women in Red types knew. They always flocked to defend Laura.

SlimVirgin came to Laura's rescue several times.
Her network likely knew.

ARBCOM knew. They saw the T&S "evidence" and most of them read here.
They knew Fram was being railroaded. They knew it. And they let it happen.



Only poor Fram, trying to do the right thing, didn't know.
And SandyGeorgia, who tried and gave up.

The defense of Laura Hale wasn't organic. It was planned from within the highest ranks of the WMF.
They organized and incited the largest on-wiki riot in the history of the project to protect a paid editing gig.



I welcome discussion/disagreement.

Is the above scenario where almost everyone knew Laura was full on paid editing certain? Likely?

What other scenario is more likely than this one.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:38 am

Lest we forget the off-wiki coordination and vote stacking.

https://groups.google.com/g/hopau

All saved forever in glorious Technicolor.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:49 am

ProTip: When you delete your account and storm off, remember to close out your dropbox.

Image
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:52 am

Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:53 am

Conspiring to violate GNG for articles that get Laura Paid!

https://groups.google.com/g/hopau/c/a3H ... tOqcTQcA4J
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:58 am

She knows her stub articles are shit and she's trying to get meatpuppets to help her fend off people looking at her work.

https://groups.google.com/g/hopau/c/sjH ... h1w9TtDQAJ
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Zoloft
Trustee
Posts: 14083
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Nom de plume: William Burns
Location: San Diego
Contact:

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Zoloft » Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:59 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:38 am
Lest we forget the off-wiki coordination and vote stacking.

https://groups.google.com/g/hopau

All saved forever in glorious Technicolor.
off-wiki-canvassing.png
Ooh, off-wiki canvassing!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
  • Actual mug ◄
  • Uncle Cornpone
  • Zoloft bouncy pill-thing


User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:10 pm

The canvassing was constant.

Every time an article in the HOPAU domain came up, there was a post on that group to save/improve it.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
owl be it
Regular
Posts: 389
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:12 am
Actual Name: 12345
Nom de plume: 4
Location: 56

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by owl be it » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:17 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:52 pm
Lest we forget.

Articles in subpages

Tons more of the same fatuous garbage that was going to be added as choleric night soil to mainspace.
Your posts are beautiful, Vig.

This whole saga was so wretched and strange... a wonder nobody has said this stuff onwiki yet. I imagine they are afraid they would be pilloried for conspiring to suppress women's voices?
The artist formerly known as Yeet Bae...

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:34 pm

owl be it wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:17 pm
Vigilant wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:52 pm
Lest we forget.

Articles in subpages

Tons more of the same fatuous garbage that was going to be added as choleric night soil to mainspace.
Your posts are beautiful, Vig.

This whole saga was so wretched and strange... a wonder nobody has said this stuff onwiki yet. I imagine they are afraid they would be pilloried for conspiring to suppress women's voices?
Almost everyone complicit in Laura Hale's grift is still at the WMF or is a part of the en.wp wikirati.

And Fram is still the only one who received any punishment from this debacle ... for trying to do the right thing.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:45 pm

Does this open cesspit of clearly garbage, paid editing articles that everyone refuses to look at or deal with strike anyone else as odd?

Thankfully, these 'profiles in courage' at en.wp and the WMF weren't in charge at Chernobyl.

Reminds me of this.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

ArmasRebane
Gregarious
Posts: 995
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:04 pm

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by ArmasRebane » Tue Apr 12, 2022 7:16 pm

owl be it wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:17 pm
Vigilant wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:52 pm
Lest we forget.

Articles in subpages

Tons more of the same fatuous garbage that was going to be added as choleric night soil to mainspace.
Your posts are beautiful, Vig.

This whole saga was so wretched and strange... a wonder nobody has said this stuff onwiki yet. I imagine they are afraid they would be pilloried for conspiring to suppress women's voices?
More likely few people know or care. There's all sorts of dreck in subpages, let alone forgotten articles in random corners. None of this stuff is collecting page views. For most practical purposes it doesn't really exist.

User avatar
Ming
the Merciless
Posts: 2995
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Ming » Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:20 pm

Ming thought about nomming it but decided it was better not to attract attention. OTOH it seems to Ming that a speedy reason of "dead drafts of disappeared editors" would make sense.

Beeblebrox
Habitué
Posts: 3835
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:30 pm
Wikipedia User: Just Step Sideways
Location: The end of the road, Alaska

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:32 pm

Ming wrote:
Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:20 pm
Ming thought about nomming it but decided it was better not to attract attention. OTOH it seems to Ming that a speedy reason of "dead drafts of disappeared editors" would make sense.
They can't be speedy deleted since that criterion does not exist, however, the only reason for draft articles to be in user space is the presumption that the user will improve them at some point in the future. If the user is vanished, that is an affirmative statement that they will never return, and therefore will never improve the drafts. That is sufficient reason to move them out of user space and into draft space, and if they don't get edited in the next six months, deletion is basically automatic.

Anyone with page mover rights can do this at any time.

EDIT: I looked at a few, and it appears all the "abortion in <state>" ones are now redirects to actual mainspace articles. I feel like those can all be speedy deleted as housekeeping, they aren't useful redirects. She moved them herself but didn't have the userrights to suppress the redirects.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom

Beeblebrox
Habitué
Posts: 3835
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:30 pm
Wikipedia User: Just Step Sideways
Location: The end of the road, Alaska

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Tue Apr 12, 2022 11:17 pm

Beeblebrox wrote:
Tue Apr 12, 2022 10:32 pm


all the "abortion in <state>" ones are now redirects to actual mainspace articles. I feel like those can all be speedy deleted as housekeeping, they aren't useful redirects. She moved them herself but didn't have the userrights to suppress the redirects.
Ok, that was tedious as hell, but I deleted all the abortion redirects. Turns out a few of them were not redirects but were states where there is already a mainspace article so they still qualified as housekeeping.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:17 pm

Are you getting any pushback?
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

Beeblebrox
Habitué
Posts: 3835
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:30 pm
Wikipedia User: Just Step Sideways
Location: The end of the road, Alaska

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:48 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:17 pm
Are you getting any pushback?
I'm sure somebody has noticed by now but nobody has said anything. These were useless redirects with no incoming links so there's no real reason for anyone to want them back.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom

Beeblebrox
Habitué
Posts: 3835
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:30 pm
Wikipedia User: Just Step Sideways
Location: The end of the road, Alaska

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:44 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:52 pm
Lest we forget.

Articles in subpages
Look again. I went ahead and moved anything that looked like draft article to draft space. It was even more tedious than deleting all the useless redirects but it's done now. The few template drafts still in there would need to go through MFD I guess, if anyone cares.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom

User avatar
Giraffe Stapler
Habitué
Posts: 3155
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 5:13 pm

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Giraffe Stapler » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:08 pm

Beeblebrox wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:44 pm
Vigilant wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:52 pm
Lest we forget.

Articles in subpages
Look again. I went ahead and moved anything that looked like draft article to draft space. It was even more tedious than deleting all the useless redirects but it's done now. The few template drafts still in there would need to go through MFD I guess, if anyone cares.
I don't understand the need for this. There were drafts in someone's userspace? And they weren't good? So what? It feels like this action is designed to get the drafts deleted if they aren't edited for six months (or whatever it is). I have to say, it feels a bit vindictive to me.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:28 pm

Giraffe Stapler wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 11:08 pm
Beeblebrox wrote:
Wed Apr 13, 2022 8:44 pm
Vigilant wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:52 pm
Lest we forget.

Articles in subpages
Look again. I went ahead and moved anything that looked like draft article to draft space. It was even more tedious than deleting all the useless redirects but it's done now. The few template drafts still in there would need to go through MFD I guess, if anyone cares.
I don't understand the need for this. There were drafts in someone's userspace? And they weren't good? So what? It feels like this action is designed to get the drafts deleted if they aren't edited for six months (or whatever it is). I have to say, it feels a bit vindictive to me.
Deleting shitty articles created by a paid editor is vindictive?
Hmmm.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

Beeblebrox
Habitué
Posts: 3835
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:30 pm
Wikipedia User: Just Step Sideways
Location: The end of the road, Alaska

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:15 am

As I mentioned above, the only reason for drafts to stay in userspace is the presumption that the user hosting them intends to improve them. Vanishing is a clear statement that that will literally never happen, so as far as I'm concerned this is just routine housekeeping. If anyone sees anything worth improving they are more than welcome to do so, or to userfy it in their own userspace to do so in the future.

Here's the logs of all the moves in case anyone is seriously interested in improving these:
11:38, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User talk:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War to Draft talk:Women on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:38, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War to Draft:Women on the Republican side of the Spanish Civil War without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
11:38, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women ministers in the socialist government of Felipe González to Draft:Women ministers in the socialist government of Felipe González without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
11:37, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User talk:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in Francoist Spain to Draft talk:Women in Francoist Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:37, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in Francoist Spain to Draft:Women in Francoist Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
11:37, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in Falange in Francoist Spain to Draft:Women in Falange in Francoist Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:36, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in Comisiones Obreras in Francoist Spain to Draft:Women in Comisiones Obreras in Francoist Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:36, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in Acción Católica in Francoist Spain to Draft:Women in Acción Católica in Francoist Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:36, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in 1980s Spain in the democratic transition to Draft:Women in 1980s Spain in the democratic transition without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
11:35, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in 1970s Spain in the democratic transition to Draft:Women in 1970s Spain in the democratic transition without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
11:35, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in 1970s Francoist Spain to Draft:Women in 1970s Francoist Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:34, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in 1960s Spain to Draft:Women in 1960s Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
11:34, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in 1950s Spain to Draft:Women in 1950s Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:33, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in 1940s Spain to Draft:Women in 1940s Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
11:33, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women in 1930s Francoist Spain to Draft:Women in 1930s Francoist Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:32, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women and Roman Catholicism in Francoist Spain to Draft:Women and Roman Catholicism in Francoist Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
11:31, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women's sexuality during the socialist government of Felipe González to Draft:Women's sexuality during the socialist government of Felipe González without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:30, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Women's fashion during the socialist government of Felipe González to Draft:Women's fashion during the socialist government of Felipe González without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:30, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Wheelchair basketball in Cameroon to Draft:Wheelchair basketball in Cameroon without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:30, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Third-wave feminism in Ibero-America to Draft:Third-wave feminism in Ibero-America without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:29, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Thailand national cerebral palsy football team to Draft:Thailand national cerebral palsy football team without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:26, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Table tennis in Cameroon to Draft:Table tennis in Cameroon without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:26, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/TPB10 to Draft:TPB10 without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:25, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Stuart Sharp to Draft:Stuart Sharp without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:25, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/South Africa national cerebral palsy football team to Draft:South Africa national cerebral palsy football team without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:24, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Second-wave feminism in Ibero-America to Draft:Second-wave feminism in Ibero-America without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:23, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Sean Boyle to Draft:Sean Boyle without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:23, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Sam Holmes (Paralympic footballer) to Draft:Sam Holmes (Paralympic footballer) without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:20, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Saleha Annab to Draft:Saleha Annab without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:20, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Safia Djelal to Draft:Safia Djelal without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:20, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/STU5 to Draft:STU5 without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:19, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Petra Tena Nieto to Draft:Petra Tena Nieto without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:19, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Para-swimming in Cameroon to Draft:Para-swimming in Cameroon without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:18, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/PROMHANDICAM Yaounde to Draft:PROMHANDICAM Yaounde without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:18, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/P44 to Draft:P44 without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:17, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Ouassila Oussadit to Draft:Ouassila Oussadit without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:17, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Olha Mustafaieva to Draft:Olha Mustafaieva without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:16, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Myanmar national cerebral palsy football team to Draft:Myanmar national cerebral palsy football team without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:16, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Motherhood during the socialist government of Felipe González to Draft:Motherhood during the socialist government of Felipe González without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:16, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Michael Moore (Paralympic footballer) to Draft:Michael Moore (Paralympic footballer) without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:15, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/María Ángeles Moreno to Draft:María Ángeles Moreno without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:15, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Marriage during the socialist government of Felipe González to Draft:Marriage during the socialist government of Felipe González without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:14, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lithuania national cerebral palsy football team to Draft:Lithuania national cerebral palsy football team without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:13, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbians in the Spanish democratic transition period to Draft:Lesbians in the Spanish democratic transition period without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:13, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbians in pre-modern Spain to Draft:Lesbians in pre-modern Spain without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:13, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbians during the socialist government of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero to Draft:Lesbians during the socialist government of José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:12, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbians during the socialist government of Felipe González to Draft:Lesbians during the socialist government of Felipe González without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:12, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbians during the conservative government of José María Aznar to Draft:Lesbians during the conservative government of José María Aznar without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:11, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Lesbianism in Gibraltar to Draft:Lesbianism in Gibraltar without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
11:11, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/LB3 to Draft:LB3 without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:09, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Joshua Brunais to Draft:Joshua Brunais without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:09, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Josh Miller to Draft:Josh Miller without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert) Tag: Disambiguation links added
11:08, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User talk:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Irma Khetsuriani to Draft talk:Irma Khetsuriani without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:08, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Irma Khetsuriani to Draft:Irma Khetsuriani without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:07, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Indonesia national cerebral palsy football team to Draft:Indonesia national cerebral palsy football team without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:07, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/India national cerebral palsy football team to Draft:India national cerebral palsy football team without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:06, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Ghana national cerebral palsy football team to Draft:Ghana national cerebral palsy football team without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:06, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Fédération Camerounaise de Sports pour Sourds to Draft:Fédération Camerounaise de Sports pour Sourds without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:05, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Fourth-wave feminism in Ibero-America to Draft:Fourth-wave feminism in Ibero-America without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:05, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/First-wave feminism in Ibero-America to Draft:First-wave feminism in Ibero-America without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:04, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Feminism during the socialist government of Felipe González to Draft:Feminism during the socialist government of Felipe González without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:04, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Female artists in the Second Republic period to Draft:Female artists in the Second Republic period without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:03, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/El Salvador national cerebral palsy football team to Draft:El Salvador national cerebral palsy football team without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:02, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Disability ten-pin bowling classification to Draft:Disability ten-pin bowling classification without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:02, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Disability sports in Cameroon to Draft:Disability sports in Cameroon without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:01, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Deaf sports in Cameroon to Draft:Deaf sports in Cameroon without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
11:01, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Deaf sport classification to Draft:Deaf sport classification without leaving a redirect (revert)
10:59, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Colombia national cerebral palsy football team to Draft:Colombia national cerebral palsy football team without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
10:59, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Club for the Blind Youth of Cameroon to Draft:Club for the Blind Youth of Cameroon (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
10:58, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Catholic women in the Spanish Civil War to Draft:Catholic women in the Spanish Civil War without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
10:57, 13 April 2022 Beeblebrox talk contribs block moved page User:Vanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr/Amputee football goalkeepers to Draft:Amputee football goalkeepers without leaving a redirect (drafting user has left Wikipedia permanently) (revert)
Actually, looking at Wikipedia:Courtesy vanishing (T-H-L), as written policy actually says that all user subpages are supposed to just be deleted when doing the vanishing.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom

User avatar
Giraffe Stapler
Habitué
Posts: 3155
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 5:13 pm

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Giraffe Stapler » Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:40 am

Beeblebrox wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:15 am
As I mentioned above, the only reason for drafts to stay in userspace is the presumption that the user hosting them intends to improve them. Vanishing is a clear statement that that will literally never happen, so as far as I'm concerned this is just routine housekeeping. If anyone sees anything worth improving they are more than welcome to do so, or to userfy it in their own userspace to do so in the future.

Actually, looking at Wikipedia:Courtesy vanishing (T-H-L), as written policy actually says that all user subpages are supposed to just be deleted when doing the vanishing.
First of all, the "policy" is not a policy at all, but a guideline. Second, it says "typically" user subpages are deleted. My feeling has always been that if users want to vanish, everything except their talk page should be deleted. The talk page should never be deleted. Privacy concerns should be dealt with by oversight if needed.

I very much doubt that there's anything worth keeping or improving, but why bother to do anything to them? I'm no fan of Laura Hale, but I think this will come back to bite you in the ass.

Beeblebrox
Habitué
Posts: 3835
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:30 pm
Wikipedia User: Just Step Sideways
Location: The end of the road, Alaska

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Thu Apr 14, 2022 5:03 pm

Giraffe Stapler wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:40 am
I'm no fan of Laura Hale, but I think this will come back to bite you in the ass.
I really don't see how. I'll grant that a number of Wikipedians have surprised me with their ability to get offended and upset about truly insignificant things, but I can't see how a little pile of page moves is any kind of a big deal.
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom

User avatar
eagle
Eagle
Posts: 1254
Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:26 pm

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by eagle » Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:16 am

What can we do to clean up the harm administered to Fram and Laura Hale's many other victims?

User avatar
Midsize Jake
Site Admin
Posts: 9950
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:10 pm
Wikipedia Review Member: Somey

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Sat Apr 16, 2022 4:25 am

eagle wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 2:16 am
What can we do to clean up the harm administered to Fram and Laura Hale's many other victims?
Who else got banned? :unsure:

If someone really feels victimized, then it's probably too late to "clean up," if that's even possible. But one thing they could do, in order to allow for a small measure of vindication for those people — which might be adequate redress in some cases — is to make the rules more explicit as to how many articles you can write about essentially the same subject without getting express permission first. Then set up a clear guideline to the effect that "swamping" what should be a limited subject area with dozens of articles ("broken out" in a way that's obviously an effort to increase the user's article count) is unacceptable, or at least "highly discouraged."

There may already be a rule against mass stub creation, but all I could come up with (without putting tons of time into looking) was WP:LISTSTUFF, which is just an essay suggesting people make lists instead of lots of stubs.

Carcharoth
Habitué
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:44 am
Wikipedia User: Carcharoth

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Carcharoth » Sat Apr 16, 2022 7:26 am

There are pages concerning bot-like editing that say explicit permission is needed for creating articles without human oversight. By this I mean articles generated using a template, which is clearly what happened here. With the lack of human oversight shown by the egregious errors. Parts of 'Wikipedia:Walled garden' probably also apply.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Walled_garden

There are also bits of WP:NOT that apply, such as the 3rd bit of 'not a directory':
"Non-encyclopedic cross-categorizations, such as "people from ethnic / cultural / religious group X employed by organization Y" or "restaurants specializing in food type X in city Y". Cross-categories such as these are not considered a sufficient basis for creating an article, unless the intersection of those categories is in some way a culturally significant phenomenon."
The excessive level of breakdown across Paralympic sports, nationalities and disabilities probably drove a truck through that. Not helped by the 'feeling' that sport is an exception to this 'rule'...

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:42 am

How about forcing the adoption of process rules that provide for basic fairness in proceedings?

* Clear rules of evidence
* No private evidence
* The right to face your accuser
* The right to participate in your own defense on wiki
* No forum shopping to the WMF to bypass local dispute resolution
* Mandatory declarations of conflicts on wiki
- Laura/Maria
- Courcelles/Karen Brown
* ARBCOM to follow the rules and not just make shit up
- Reworking evidence after the workshop is closed
- Reworking votes after adopted resolutions don't give you the desired outcome
- Mandatory recusal with clear criteria
- Neutral clerking with clear rules
- So many more in the Framageddon
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:53 am

Vigilant wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2022 9:42 am
How about forcing the adoption of process rules that provide for basic fairness in proceedings?

* Clear rules of evidence
* No private evidence
* The right to face your accuser
* The right to participate in your own defense on wiki
* No forum shopping to the WMF to bypass local dispute resolution
* Mandatory declarations of conflicts on wiki
- Laura/Maria
- Courcelles/Karen Brown
* ARBCOM to follow the rules and not just make shit up
- Reworking evidence after the workshop is closed
- Reworking votes after adopted resolutions don't give you the desired outcome
- Mandatory recusal with clear criteria
- Neutral clerking with clear rules
- So many more in the Framageddon
How about it ARBCOMmers?
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

Beeblebrox
Habitué
Posts: 3835
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:30 pm
Wikipedia User: Just Step Sideways
Location: The end of the road, Alaska

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Beeblebrox » Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:37 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:53 am
How about forcing the adoption of process rules that provide for basic fairness in proceedings?
Since you're asking for arbs specifically, I'm assuming you're asking for the committee to adopt these rules? I'll try and reply to them.

* Clear rules of evidence -The way it basically works now is if someone presents evidence of no worth, it doesn't have any effect on the case. I'm not sure what a further rule would even look like.

* No private evidence- Non-starter. Checkuser evidence must be submitted privately, a lot of other private evidence is private because it would violate the outing policy. However, the committee has being fairly strict about refusing to act on private complaints that have no valid reason to be private.

* The right to face your accuser- Generally this is already the case.

* The right to participate in your own defense on wiki-Also generally the case. We usually won't have a case where the parties are not able to participate.

* No forum shopping to the WMF to bypass local dispute resolution-Totally agree, T&S is only supposed to act in the "worst of the worst" type of cases. That being said we aren't able to place restrictions on the office, I guess that would be a matter for the board.

* Mandatory declarations of conflicts on wiki
- Laura/Maria
- Courcelles/Karen Brown
-I agree with this as well, I feel like it should be a foundation-level policy that they enforce on the board and the staff. There's no real way for the committee to do it.

* ARBCOM to follow the rules and not just make shit up. -I feel like the committee has been better about this lately. The Fram case was an exceptional circumstance, and the office got a clear message from the committee and the community that they overstepped and handled it badly. My main feeling toward the arbs who had to deal with that is sympathy, they were in a crappy position and did the best they could with it.

- Reworking evidence after the workshop is closed- When did that happen?

- Reworking votes after adopted resolutions don't give you the desired outcome-(I'm assuming you mean new proposals during the proposed decision phase?) What a case needs is a clear result. Sometimes we don't get there on the first try, so new proposals are made to try and arrive at a result.

- Mandatory recusal with clear criteria-I think we're pretty good at this without it being mandatory. I can only recall one instance where the committee had to seriously pressure an arb to recuse.

- Neutral clerking with clear rules-I agree this is an area that could use some improvement. This is not to say I blame the clerks, what is needed is better cues from the committee.

- So many more in the Framageddon-per my above remarks, I think it's best to move on from that and try to do better, not to dwell on it.
How about it ARBCOMmers?
Well, I took a shot at it....
Last edited by Midsize Jake on Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote tags
information is not knowledge, knowledge is not wisdom

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:00 am

Well, well, well.

Look who surfaced.

Courcelles (T-C-L)
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12239
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:43 pm

Beeblebrox wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 11:37 pm
Vigilant wrote:
Mon Jun 06, 2022 5:53 am

How about it ARBCOMmers?
Well, I took a shot at it....
And you did well.

t

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:14 am

Vigilant wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:00 am
Well, well, well.

Look who surfaced.

Courcelles (T-C-L)
Since Brad is back to editing on the regular, someone should follow up with him on his role in the Laura Hale/Maria Sefidari Fuici scandal, especially around Australian para-olympians and WMF paid for travel.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:41 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Wed Mar 22, 2023 1:14 am
Vigilant wrote:
Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:00 am
Well, well, well.

Look who surfaced.

Courcelles (T-C-L)
Since Brad is back to editing on the regular, someone should follow up with him on his role in the Laura Hale/Maria Sefidari Fuici scandal, especially around Australian para-olympians and WMF paid for travel.
Will Brad just skate on his involvement in the largest scandal in en.wp/WMF history?
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12239
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:03 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:41 pm
Will Brad just skate on his involvement in the largest scandal in en.wp/WMF history?
I'm not quite sure how you're measuring the mass of scandals, but I will say that the Laura Hale saga is by now forgotten.


t

User avatar
AndyTheGrump
Habitué
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:44 pm
Wikipedia User: AndyTheGrump (editor/heckler)

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by AndyTheGrump » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:08 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:03 pm
Vigilant wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 6:41 pm
Will Brad just skate on his involvement in the largest scandal in en.wp/WMF history?
I'm not quite sure how you're measuring the mass of scandals, but I will say that the Laura Hale saga is by now forgotten.


t
Forgotten by whom? Clearly not everyone...

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31782
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: The mess Laura Hale left behind

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Mar 25, 2023 7:09 pm

As long as her enablers walk the fields of en.wp, I shall be Vigilant.

In other news,
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cate ... oconf_2023
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

Post Reply