Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
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Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
We should at least supply the locus of the dispute: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sarah Tuttle
Sarah Tuttle (T-H-L) is yet another woman scientist who is likely to get her 10-month-old BLP deleted because, as Ms. Genderdesk might say, "Penis."
Sarah Tuttle (T-H-L) is yet another woman scientist who is likely to get her 10-month-old BLP deleted because, as Ms. Genderdesk might say, "Penis."
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =895338598
Oh, honey...Creepy Sexist
Imply this again and I will report you.Slatersteven (talk) 15:14, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
I HAVE NEVER CALLED ANYONE A SEXIST. THESE ARE YOUR WORDS, YOUR DESCRIPTION NOT MINE.
Go away please. If you are following me on Twitter or anywhere else off wiki, please stop. I do not like being the subject of hostile research. --Fæ (talk) 15:23, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Calling a spade a shovel.I would think that someone who is quite, umm, keen on pronoun use would be a tad more careful with their own language. However, even if we were to AGF the "tone deaf" bit, you still did not AGF in that conversation, and came out swinging with various accusations and even contrasted them with "right wing extremists" for their use of language not to your liking.Icewhiz (talk) 19:53, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
I am keen on seeing it become a normal expectation to be civil with pronoun use, rather than it being written off as a bad joke.
The specific rhetoric is used by right wing extremists, highlighting that fact is pointing to history and conventions for acceptable discourse, explaining why it is upsetting, not a personal attack. --Fæ (talk) 20:00, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Shades of Oliver Keyes and Ryan Kaldari here.
What a dramah queen.
Because you're thin skinned hypocrite?The right pronoun to use has been spelt out. Be nice please, you know exactly why it is upsetting to make my identity an issue. --Fæ (talk) 18:06, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
DING! DING! DING!
What does our contestant win, Alex?
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
The comment that started this latest shitshow.Midsize Jake wrote:We should at least supply the locus of the dispute: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sarah Tuttle
Sarah Tuttle (T-H-L) is yet another woman scientist who is likely to get her 10-month-old BLP deleted because, as Ms. Genderdesk might say, "Penis."
Personal attack and obvious accusation of sexism.You are being creepy. What next, find her LinkedIn contacts and look for photos on their Facebook accounts? This is an AfD, not an excuse to obsessively sniff a BLP subject's social media accounts for dirt. By the way, it's pretty obvious that the reason you made this note is that the subject is a woman. I do not see this sort of sniffing social media accounts being a regular, or encouraged, part of other deletion discussions. --Fæ (talk) 12:30, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Someone ban this drama generating shitheel.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Let's see, Mr. Fæ wrote that here before it was redacted (by User:Abecedare (T-C-L)) in response to User:Slatersteven (T-C-L) posting a link to this tweet by Dr. Tuttle, the article subject. That entire Twitter thread gives us a fairly accurate idea, IMO, as to how Wikipedia is currently viewed by women scientists, if not women in general.
I guess we could discuss whether or not it really is "creepy" for someone on WP to draw attention to a BLP subject/victim's Twitter account - I mean, from an outside perspective it's clearly a matter of opinion, and personally I would say "obviously not," but these are Wikipedians we're talking about here, not normal, well-adjusted people. Wikipedians would think nothing of raising Holy Freaking Hell for someone making even an oblique reference to one of their own Twitter or Facebook accounts even if they're using exactly the same username and profile photo on all three sites (all while blithely hand-waving away the privacy of anyone else who they think warrants "encyclopedic" coverage by them).
I guess what I'm saying is that it probably is creepy by their standards, and that despite the fact that ol' Ashy-Bashy is a near-perfect example of someone who harms his own cause by making others not want to support it out of fear of being associated with him (is there a special term for that? If there is I can't think of it), maybe we should also be asking whether or not Mr. Slatersteven was indirectly trying to accuse Ms. Tuttle of trying to influence the AfD in some way (not that anyone should blame her), and if so, why.
I guess we could discuss whether or not it really is "creepy" for someone on WP to draw attention to a BLP subject/victim's Twitter account - I mean, from an outside perspective it's clearly a matter of opinion, and personally I would say "obviously not," but these are Wikipedians we're talking about here, not normal, well-adjusted people. Wikipedians would think nothing of raising Holy Freaking Hell for someone making even an oblique reference to one of their own Twitter or Facebook accounts even if they're using exactly the same username and profile photo on all three sites (all while blithely hand-waving away the privacy of anyone else who they think warrants "encyclopedic" coverage by them).
I guess what I'm saying is that it probably is creepy by their standards, and that despite the fact that ol' Ashy-Bashy is a near-perfect example of someone who harms his own cause by making others not want to support it out of fear of being associated with him (is there a special term for that? If there is I can't think of it), maybe we should also be asking whether or not Mr. Slatersteven was indirectly trying to accuse Ms. Tuttle of trying to influence the AfD in some way (not that anyone should blame her), and if so, why.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
To save people having to wade through reams of waffle, here are his two contributions to the AfD.
Keep May as well openly vote, considering I spent yesterday at ANI defending myself against claims by the Usual Suspects that I called someone a sexist on this page without, you know, ever using that word; along with having my personal pronoun ridiculed, because people who do that will get a slap on the back for being so bold for taking personal pot shots at the "unhinged" social justice warrior. The conduct on and around this AfD shows that right now Wikipedia is as bad a hostile s**thole of a non-collegiate environment it has ever been. Newbies have no chance and should be warned that they are likely to be called a meatpuppet, and should only be open about who they are if they expect to have their social media accounts investigated by the self appointed Wikipedia keystone cops. My comments about what is now a huge notice at the top of this AfD were deleted from this page, because that's now normal. The notice implies that the subject of this BLP is asking others to vote here. The allegation is not correct, not based on the evidence of the BLP subject's actions, not fair; it is a hostile way to treat the subject. --Fæ (talk) 06:51, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
The second comment is directed to Sitush (T-C-L).Maybe you should publish your evidence in a proposed a ban against WiR participants contributing to AfDs on women BLPs, rather than just using this page to imply that the project is canvassing for votes? I am sure lots of people would help review the evidence rather than passively read theories. --Fæ (talk) 09:37, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Slatersteven is one of the more ignorant devil's advocates at that website.Midsize Jake wrote:maybe we should also be asking whether or not Mr. Slatersteven was indirectly trying to accuse Ms. Tuttle of trying to influence the AfD in some way (not that anyone should blame her), and if so, why.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Wow.I shall now step in to say that I have not replied (despite being asked to) in order to diffuse the drama and for no other reason. That is all I will say about this here, as this forum is not about me.Slatersteven (talk) 16:19, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
What a pity, how disappointing. No evidence to review, despite repeated requests. Just have to conclude this is fakenews drama mongering instead.
It would be smart to call out the usual suspects on precisely the same thing, every time these same old bad faith allegations of gender gap related canvassing are repeated.
Of course, naturally, none of this is an allegation of "misogyny" or "sexism", despite the usual suspects repeatedly using these words and pretending to be mortally offended, when the only people saying these things are themselves playing the victim. Dear Usual Suspects, please keep in mind that addressing Wikipedia's systemic bias, is not a personal attack on you, no matter how much you try to bend the facts to promote that myth. --Fæ (talk) 16:39, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
That's got to be the most hypocritical thing Ashley's ever written.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
There have been many keep votes lately. At present, I think it would need to be closed as "no consensus".Midsize Jake wrote:We should at least supply the locus of the dispute: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sarah Tuttle
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Should be closed as no consensus indeed, but anyone who dares to close before 7 days would have to embrace some angry talk page messages.
That's the fascinating truth of AfD; no consensus means default to keep, and no consensus in your subsequent deletion review again means default to keep. In a flawed discussion where the article subject is actively trying to promote their fringe notability, this loop hole can be used for a good cause. This is obviously not the case here.
The Sarah Tuttle article may have been deletion worthy at the time of the nomination, but after subsequent improvements there really shouldn't be anymore debates. WiR is usually a force for good, with the exception of folks like Fae, not recognising that their divisive rhetorics derived from their obsessive victim mentality IS the main culprit for undermining efforts in combating systematic gender bias.
That's the fascinating truth of AfD; no consensus means default to keep, and no consensus in your subsequent deletion review again means default to keep. In a flawed discussion where the article subject is actively trying to promote their fringe notability, this loop hole can be used for a good cause. This is obviously not the case here.
The Sarah Tuttle article may have been deletion worthy at the time of the nomination, but after subsequent improvements there really shouldn't be anymore debates. WiR is usually a force for good, with the exception of folks like Fae, not recognising that their divisive rhetorics derived from their obsessive victim mentality IS the main culprit for undermining efforts in combating systematic gender bias.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
I suppose the key question is whether everyone about whom a decent article can be written should get one. By a decent article, I mean a reasonable one that can be sourced to reliable and reasonably NPOV sources. Even if that is accepted in principle, there is endless room for debate about what "reliable and reasonably NPOV" means.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
It just never stops with Ashley.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... st_F%C3%A6
I love it that they knew what he was and let him go right back to doing it all over again.
Spineless fools.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... st_F%C3%A6
I love it that they knew what he was and let him go right back to doing it all over again.
Spineless fools.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Another premature closing of discussions by self-appointed super-admin with snarky remarks that ignores the core issues and resolves absolutely nothing.
Fae needs to be indefinitely blocked. That'll be a good first step to improving "community health".
Fae needs to be indefinitely blocked. That'll be a good first step to improving "community health".
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Someone should insist that their preferred pronoun is "Your Holiness" and raise ANI issues when people refuse to use it.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Nailed itFæ appears to believe that Fæ has found a magic bullet that will always bring victory on the ongoing WP:BATTLEGROUND that Fæ has made anything and everything related to gender into. Fæ has (correctly) figured out that I refuse to be bullied into using the exact words that Fæ demands, and thus Fæ is now feigning outrage at my best efforts to use inoffensive and gender-neutral language by inventing a new offense: suddenly calling Fæ Fæ is Evil. So Very Very Evil that Fæ... never mentioned it before? I am not treating Fæ as an object. I am purposely making my best effort to treat Fæ with basic respect. I am not being sarcastic or making jokes. Even if I wanted to do all of those things (I do not) I would be really stupid to do them at AN or ANI. I am doing the best that I can after being left with zero acceptable alternatives.. I do not hate Fæ, although I do find the games Fæ is playing to be incredibly annoying. Fæ says "My pronoun preferences, gender and sexual orientation is not open for debate" (I have and will continue to say exactly zero about Fæ's gender or sexual orientation, because neither is any of my business). My counter message is this: My refusal to be bullied or intimidated is also not open for debate. Pick any form of respectful gender neutral pronoun other than the one exact form you are trying to force me to use and I will use that. Refuse to give me any alternative that avoids my caving in to a playground bully and I will continue to call Fæ Fæ. --Guy Macon (talk) 09:32, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
Ashely proving the point.The commitment to deliberately misgender me, and only me, and in that same thread deliberately misgender me using numerous neologisms is by any reasonable understanding of plain English a personal targeted hate campaign and blatant harassment. Just because someone says they do not hate you does not stop calling a hate campaign a hate campaign an accurate use of English. Odd to see the double think here of what free speech and political correctness is. --Fæ (talk) 10:32, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
They don't call him AshHat for nothin'...
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Call me silly, but they should all just cut their losses at this point. Give both these guys 24-hour cool-down blocks, close the AfD as "keep," archive the related discussions and finally tell everyone to just shut the hell up.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
You gotta let him play. It's America, manVigilant wrote:I love it that they knew what he was and let him go right back to doing it all over again.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
This is the kind of stupid shit you get when you give Ashley a 'win'.
It will NEVER be enough for him.
Like Merkey and Ottava Rima and every other bully/victim, every time you let them get away with shit, they'll just push further.
Ashley needs to be indeffed.
Barring that, his topic ban needs to be fully reinstated.
It will NEVER be enough for him.
Like Merkey and Ottava Rima and every other bully/victim, every time you let them get away with shit, they'll just push further.
Ashley needs to be indeffed.
Barring that, his topic ban needs to be fully reinstated.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Ashley's new article.
Francisco_Correa_Netto (T-H-L)
Riveting stuff.
Totally not trying to make a point.
Obviously there to improve the quality of the encyclopedia.
By all means, wikipediots, let this turd blossom have free reign on your project.
The 'sum of all human knowledge' demands nothing less.
Francisco_Correa_Netto (T-H-L)
Riveting stuff.
Totally not trying to make a point.
Obviously there to improve the quality of the encyclopedia.
By all means, wikipediots, let this turd blossom have free reign on your project.
The 'sum of all human knowledge' demands nothing less.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
What is Fae claiming about gender-pronoun?
Has there been a change in Fae's gender identification?
Why is this happening now?
(I look for an answer besides serving the god dramah. )
Has there been a change in Fae's gender identification?
Why is this happening now?
(I look for an answer besides serving the god dramah. )
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
If anyone ever refers to Ashley using a pronoun other than ‘they’ then they are misgendering him and must be evil homophobes.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
I thought Fae (T-C-L) used to be a he?Vigilant wrote:If anyone ever refers to Ashley using a pronoun other than ‘they’ then they are misgendering him and must be evil homophobes.
When did any such pronoun-change occur?
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Apparently, every time Ashley wants to pick a fight on en.wp.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
All you need to know is that Fae has found a weapon that he can use to gain an advantage in whatever pointless battles he is currently fighting. The beauty is that by representing himself as part of a persecuted minority, he can gain sympathy from many well-meaning but gullible people.Moral Hazard wrote:What is Fae claiming about gender-pronoun?
Has there been a change in Fae's gender identification?
Why is this happening now?
(I look for an answer besides serving the god dramah. )
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Sometime recently when he wasn't getting the requisite amount of attention.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Pictures for the mentally challenged following along at home wearing their wooden shoes and sitting in their windmills playing with toys and making weird dioramas of peeing women...
A favorite movie clip.
A favorite movie clip.
Last edited by Vigilant on Wed May 08, 2019 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
If Bradley Manning can just say that he's now a woman called Chelsea Manning and everyone has to agree, surely Fae has a similar right.Randy from Boise wrote:Sometime recently when he wasn't getting the requisite amount of attention.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
But Chelsea Manning can say that because she is a woman called Chelsea Manning. That's not just an online roleplaying game.Poetlister wrote:If Bradley Manning can just say that he's now a woman called Chelsea Manning and everyone has to agree, surely Fae has a similar right.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
He has a right to say anything he wants. But not everyone has to agree.Poetlister wrote:If Bradley Manning can just say that he's now a woman called Chelsea Manning and everyone has to agree, surely Fae has a similar right.Randy from Boise wrote:Sometime recently when he wasn't getting the requisite amount of attention.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Ashley doesn't actually give a shit about which pronoun gets used.Randy from Boise wrote:He has a right to say anything he wants. But not everyone has to agree.Poetlister wrote:If Bradley Manning can just say that he's now a woman called Chelsea Manning and everyone has to agree, surely Fae has a similar right.Randy from Boise wrote:Sometime recently when he wasn't getting the requisite amount of attention.
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He's just using this particular issue to play the professional victim and be able to bludgeon anyone he wants to.
He never enters a conversation except to be outraged.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Correct.Vigilant wrote: Ashley doesn't actually give a shit about which pronoun gets used.
He's just using this particular issue to play the professional victim and be able to bludgeon anyone he wants to.
He never enters a conversation except to be outraged.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Did Fae make a pronoun switcheroo when I wasn’t looking?
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
They did.Earthy Astringent wrote:Did Fae make a pronoun switcheroo when I wasn’t looking?
t
- Vigilant
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
It’s just another thing like the stupid way he spells his username to make him “speshul”.
The sad reality is that he’s a caricature, boring and banal.
There’s nothing interesting about him other than the way he acts as a pathogen in an already sick organization.
And the hilarious self-bondage pics, of course.
The sad reality is that he’s a caricature, boring and banal.
There’s nothing interesting about him other than the way he acts as a pathogen in an already sick organization.
And the hilarious self-bondage pics, of course.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
So has Oliver Keyes, who now wants to be known as Mx Os Keyes, and prefers they/them.Randy from Boise wrote:They did.Earthy Astringent wrote:Did Fae make a pronoun switcheroo when I wasn’t looking?
t
- Earthy Astringent
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
You probably don’t recall, but in a a discussion here a few years ago surrounding the NC bathroom bill I predicted some asshat would “switch” genders just to be a troll. Who knew that it would have happened on Wikipedia?
- Randy from Boise
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Translation: I am just trolling the fuck out of you retards here at Wikipedia, but you'd better play the game as I insist you do or I will scream bloody murder about your lack of respect for ME ME ME ME ME!!!!!!!!
RfB
P.S. I assume that no readers of Wikipediocracy are mentally handicapped, an assumption I would never in a million years make about Wikipedia Sucks...
- Vigilant
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
The "I've had enough of this shit, Ashley" team seems to be picking up steam.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... rah_Tuttle
Also, Holland is a tiny, helpless country that would make a good county in a real country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... rah_Tuttle
Also, Holland is a tiny, helpless country that would make a good county in a real country.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
There is a real person called Ashley behind that account. Maybe he insists in real life on being referred to as "they", and not just on Wikipedia.Giraffe Stapler wrote:But Chelsea Manning can say that because she is a woman called Chelsea Manning. That's not just an online roleplaying game.Poetlister wrote:If Bradley Manning can just say that he's now a woman called Chelsea Manning and everyone has to agree, surely Fae has a similar right.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche
Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
On his userpage he says "If you need a pronoun to refer to my account" - this implies that it's different from his IRL identity. Also, by the way, Fae isn't a fan of going to a certain pub for a Wikimedia Meetup because the group who runs it is pro-Brexit and there was some pro-Brexit literature in there during a tour by the CEO. I am not a fan of Brexit myself, but I consider his reasoning silly. He seriously says "Choosing this venue remains a political act and it is not an appropriate safe space for Wikimeets" in this edit: linkhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... d=18956306[/link]. I highly doubt the choosing of the venue was in any way political - more likely, someone thought it was a good pub to go to because they'd been there in the past.
- Vigilant
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Ashley has learned that if he stirs up dramah, he can get his way by exhausting all reasonable people.Katie wrote:On his userpage he says "If you need a pronoun to refer to my account" - this implies that it's different from his IRL identity. Also, by the way, Fae isn't a fan of going to a certain pub for a Wikimedia Meetup because the group who runs it is pro-Brexit and there was some pro-Brexit literature in there during a tour by the CEO. I am not a fan of Brexit myself, but I consider his reasoning silly. He seriously says "Choosing this venue remains a political act and it is not an appropriate safe space for Wikimeets" in this edit: linkhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... d=18956306[/link]. I highly doubt the choosing of the venue was in any way political - more likely, someone thought it was a good pub to go to because they'd been there in the past.
He's done this for a decade and only once been called out by ARBCOM.
He's a consistent shit stirrer who delights in faux outrage and martyrdom.
Whenever he thinks he's winning in a fight, he will universally attempt to leverage that 'win' into a position of bullying others.
I've watched him do it time and again.
Only in the madhouse of en.wp and commons is this tolerated.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
- Vigilant
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
That's rather an "angels on the head of a pin" type argument. If he meant his account as opposed to him, then it's an inanimate object, not a person, so should be called "it".Katie wrote:On his userpage he says "If you need a pronoun to refer to my account" - this implies that it's different from his IRL identity.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche
Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Ming doesn't need a pronoun to refer to Ming.
Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
Two of my posts have been deleted from this thread.
Sigh.
Looks like I'll have to shove a dildo up my jacksie and broadcast it live to prove I'm not a homophobe.
Stay tuned...
Sigh.
Looks like I'll have to shove a dildo up my jacksie and broadcast it live to prove I'm not a homophobe.
Stay tuned...
- Black Kite
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
I haven't been in a Wetherspoons either since the fuckwit that runs it started with the Brexit beermat shite, but claiming that choosing one is "a political act" is complete nonsense, most likely they chose it because it's somewhere you can buy cheap food and beer. Let's face it, Wetherspoons wouldn't have a reputation as being the pub of choice for daytime alcoholics if that wasn't the case.Katie wrote:On his userpage he says "If you need a pronoun to refer to my account" - this implies that it's different from his IRL identity. Also, by the way, Fae isn't a fan of going to a certain pub for a Wikimedia Meetup because the group who runs it is pro-Brexit and there was some pro-Brexit literature in there during a tour by the CEO. I am not a fan of Brexit myself, but I consider his reasoning silly. He seriously says "Choosing this venue remains a political act and it is not an appropriate safe space for Wikimeets" in this edit: linkhttps://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... d=18956306[/link]. I highly doubt the choosing of the venue was in any way political - more likely, someone thought it was a good pub to go to because they'd been there in the past.
- Randy from Boise
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Re: Ashley van Hatin’ at it again
He just intimated in the quote above (which I translated into English) that he does not "insist in real life" on being called a "they."Poetlister wrote:There is a real person called Ashley behind that account. Maybe he insists in real life on being referred to as "they", and not just on Wikipedia.Giraffe Stapler wrote:But Chelsea Manning can say that because she is a woman called Chelsea Manning. That's not just an online roleplaying game.Poetlister wrote:If Bradley Manning can just say that he's now a woman called Chelsea Manning and everyone has to agree, surely Fae has a similar right.
Are you trolling or are you as thick as guacamole?
RfB