Wikipedia: "Tool of the Global Elite"?

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Wikipedia: "Tool of the Global Elite"?

Unread post by Poetlister » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:25 pm

For some time, I’d heard rumors that Wikipedia was not the open-source knowledge utopia it claimed to be. Despite a comprehensive set of rules replete with checks and balances and a seemingly open democratic editing process, stories of pay-for-play editing, character assassinations, ideologically-driven trolling, and other offenses against public knowledge suggested all was not right in Jimmy Wales’ empire. Authors and public figures in fields as diverse as Complementary and Alternative Medicine and progressive politics (including Deepak Chopra, Rupert Sheldrake, Gary Null, John Pilger, and George Galloway) have complained of persistent negative coverage on Wikipedia despite the site’s vaunted neutrality and the promise that “Biographies of Living Persons” are held to the highest standard. Efforts to have misinformation corrected were fruitless and their reputations have suffered as a result.
The Gary Null Show

Of course, this shows what an elusive concept unbiasedness is. For example, it is hard to conceive how you could have an article about George Galloway that would satisfy him without being hopelessly biased in his favour.
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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Ming » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:41 pm

From Gary Null (T-H-L):
Gary Michael Null (born 1945) is an American talk radio host and author who advocates for alternative medicine and naturopathy[1] and who produces a line of dietary supplements.[2]

His views on health and nutrition are at odds with scientific consensus; psychiatrist Stephen Barrett, co-founder of the National Council Against Health Fraud and webmaster of Quackwatch, described Null as "one of the nation's leading promoters of dubious treatment for serious disease".[1]
Can't say Ming is surprised he is not happy with his treatment.

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Bezdomni » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:15 pm

I would like to see the footnotes. I have certainly never accused the Clinton Foundation of crimes against the Haitian people. (I have mentioned Cheryl Mills chuckling about arranging elections, and the whole Caracol SAE-a story being scrubbed from the CF page, but I've absolutely never accused the Clintons of any crimes...)

Null goes off of the written script1 and talks about Libya just before getting to Minassian. While I do sympathize with the POV expressed and his experience with Haitians protesting the Clinton Foundation, I wish he wouldn't put stronger words in my mouth than what I actually used. (He starts improvising when he gets to me again...) Oh well, such is life I guess. Misquoters gonna misquote. :-(

The guy obviously doesn't know many Armenians (cf. his pronunciation of Minassian ^^).

The bit about Sage getting auto-petroleum rights is kind of fun...
1 Helen of desTroy is the one who actually misquoted me... & trying to understand why...
I found a video on her website where she makes clear that she thinks it criminal for people to have their farms repossessed so large factories can be built on their land. These are probably the neoliberal crimes (which of course are perfectly legal and often even "well"-intentioned) she has in mind as extrapolable from the things I've actually said. The Clintons surely expected a revitalized Haiti with factories a-churning out cottony goodness to play well during the future elections; now, it was the (under-)garment industry, under Duvalier, it had been (all) the major league baseballs that were made in Haiti for mainland entertainment. Rebuild better, I think was the slogan. I like to assume the Clintons meant well; promoting industry & jobs, etc. Maybe it wasn't as debilitating as the maniacally massive coffee production plans in Puerto Rico...
Last edited by Bezdomni on Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:53 pm

Gary Null wrote:Wikimedia’s latest project is dedicated entirely to the problem of Fake News. WikiTribune is a crowd-sourced journalism and fact-checking platform that pairs professional journalists with volunteers, paying the pros via a crowdfunding campaign while tasking the volunteers with fact-checking and editing the articles...
More profiting off the brand confusion for Jimbo, and that's just for starters with this guy.

That's not to say I don't completely agree with his ultimate conclusion, of course.

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Poetlister » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:59 pm

Midsize Jake wrote:
Gary Null wrote:Wikimedia’s latest project is dedicated entirely to the problem of Fake News. WikiTribune is a crowd-sourced journalism and fact-checking platform that pairs professional journalists with volunteers, paying the pros via a crowdfunding campaign while tasking the volunteers with fact-checking and editing the articles...
More profiting off the brand confusion for Jimbo, and that's just for starters with this guy.
Why let the facts get in the way of a good story? He's just emulating the people he believes are badly treated by Wikipedia.
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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by tarantino » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:17 pm

Midsize Jake wrote:
[s]Gary Null[/s] wrote:Wikimedia’s latest project is dedicated entirely to the problem of Fake News. WikiTribune is a crowd-sourced journalism and fact-checking platform that pairs professional journalists with volunteers, paying the pros via a crowdfunding campaign while tasking the volunteers with fact-checking and editing the articles...
More profiting off the brand confusion for Jimbo, and that's just for starters with this guy.

That's not to say I don't completely agree with his ultimate conclusion, of course.
The text was written by Helen Buyniski, as the byline says. On the accompanying podcast Null reiterates that.

It seems Buyniski spent some time reading WO and wikipedia review, and the missing footnotes would probably show that. She got a few things wrong, though.

I like her concluding paragraph:
Helen Buyniski wrote:Denial is America’s national virtue. Until we are shown incontrovertible proof that a respected authority is lying to us, we cling to that authority tenaciously, lest our worldview begin to crumble. Once the world knows the truth about Wales and Wikipedia, they will wonder how they ever trusted this organization to serve as an encyclopedia, fact-checker, judge, jury and executioner. Gazing upon the ruins of one of the greatest frauds of the 21st century, they will be forced to wonder who else is lying to them. Therefore, it will not be the mainstream media who exposes the truth, for they are too invested in the status quo. Only brave independent journalists will have the integrity to expose this deception and bring the fraudulent edifice of Jimmy Wales crashing down once and for all.

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Ming » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:42 pm

tarantino wrote:
Midsize Jake wrote:
[s]Gary Null[/s] wrote:Wikimedia’s latest project is dedicated entirely to the problem of Fake News. WikiTribune is a crowd-sourced journalism and fact-checking platform that pairs professional journalists with volunteers, paying the pros via a crowdfunding campaign while tasking the volunteers with fact-checking and editing the articles...
More profiting off the brand confusion for Jimbo, and that's just for starters with this guy.

That's not to say I don't completely agree with his ultimate conclusion, of course.
The text was written by Helen Buyniski, as the byline says. On the accompanying podcast Null reiterates that.

It seems Buyniski spent some time reading WO and wikipedia review, and the missing footnotes would probably show that. She got a few things wrong, though.

I like her concluding paragraph:
Helen Buyniski wrote:Denial is America’s national virtue. Until we are shown incontrovertible proof that a respected authority is lying to us, we cling to that authority tenaciously, lest our worldview begin to crumble. Once the world knows the truth about Wales and Wikipedia, they will wonder how they ever trusted this organization to serve as an encyclopedia, fact-checker, judge, jury and executioner. Gazing upon the ruins of one of the greatest frauds of the 21st century, they will be forced to wonder who else is lying to them. Therefore, it will not be the mainstream media who exposes the truth, for they are too invested in the status quo. Only brave independent journalists will have the integrity to expose this deception and bring the fraudulent edifice of Jimmy Wales crashing down once and for all.
The question, though, is whether woo-woo promoters such a Null are being lied about. Really, the answer is almost surely "not significantly". Ming is sure there are problems of detail, but the basic facts of how he promotes unscientific rot are almost certainly accurate: there's too much pushback for it to be otherwise, which is why those kind of statements are footnoted out the wazoo. Quackwatch presents the same issue as SPLC: they are unquestionably on one side of an issue, but 99% of the time they have their opponents dead to rights.

And to be historical about it: the quackery at the core of alt-med is exactly as American as corn flakes.

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Poetlister » Wed Aug 29, 2018 1:44 pm

Ming wrote:And to be historical about it: the quackery at the core of alt-med is exactly as American as corn flakes.
And indeed they have much in common.

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Bezdomni » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:43 pm

So, Poetlister, do tell how you ran across this so quickly... :popcorn:

Meanwhile, Everipedia, true to its name, has entries for Gary Null (ever|wiki) and Gary Null, MD (ever|speak).

A few minutes later, and I find more from the same author just after being amazed that I'd read the word Penthouse four times in a single paragraph of Null's Wikipedia entry...

(...and in that more... she is complaining about sourcing that very paragraph to quackwatch.com...)

Wikipedia Embraces the Dark Side

Factor by which quackwatch.com is currently more frequently cited than prn.fm: 9
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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Poetlister » Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:50 pm

Bezdomni wrote:So, Poetlister, do tell how you ran across this so quickly...
Ran across what? The article that started the thread, I was tipped off by a regular correspondent of mine, who may even be reading this. :wave: The article about Kellogg was easily found using Google.
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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by tarantino » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:51 pm

Gary Null posted a lengthy article on wikipedia a couple of days ago.
Richard Gale and Gary Null wrote:It is time to take a serious, critical look at Wikipedia and its mission. Is it everything it purports to be as an objective encyclopedic source of knowledge or just another anti-democratic social media dynasty resorting to the censorship and suppression of unorthodox medical science, social criticism and political dissent contrary to its founder’s rigid ideological beliefs?

...

After many hundreds of hours of investigative research into Wikipedia, a shocking story is being uncovered. Throughout the Wikimedia Foundation’s organizational structure, and reaching into the editorial hierarchy of its open-sourced encyclopedia, are multiple layers of deception, dangerous ideologies, extreme biases, and conflicts of interests. The site has built a wall harboring a cesspool of unprofessional and undefinable editors to obfuscate the truth and slander people and entire professions. In short, a kind of deep state is now acting with authority to control Wikipedia articles.

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Eric Corbett » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:27 pm

Poetlister wrote:
For some time, I’d heard rumors that Wikipedia was not the open-source knowledge utopia it claimed to be. Despite a comprehensive set of rules replete with checks and balances and a seemingly open democratic editing process, stories of pay-for-play editing, character assassinations, ideologically-driven trolling, and other offenses against public knowledge suggested all was not right in Jimmy Wales’ empire. Authors and public figures in fields as diverse as Complementary and Alternative Medicine and progressive politics (including Deepak Chopra, Rupert Sheldrake, Gary Null, John Pilger, and George Galloway) have complained of persistent negative coverage on Wikipedia despite the site’s vaunted neutrality and the promise that “Biographies of Living Persons” are held to the highest standard. Efforts to have misinformation corrected were fruitless and their reputations have suffered as a result.
The Gary Null Show

Of course, this shows what an elusive concept unbiasedness is. For example, it is hard to conceive how you could have an article about George Galloway that would satisfy him without being hopelessly biased in his favour.
I find it difficult to imagine anything anyone might say about George Galloway that could cause his reputation, such as it is, to suffer.

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Poetlister » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:34 am

Richard Gale and Gary Null wrote:Is it everything it purports to be as an objective encyclopedic source of knowledge or just another anti-democratic social media dynasty resorting to the censorship and suppression of unorthodox medical science, social criticism and political dissent contrary to its founder’s rigid ideological beliefs?
Obviously, there is no shortage of bias on Wikipedia due to POV and COI among editors. However, presumably these gentlemen are objecting to a lack of bias towards their own POV and maybe COI regarding unorthodox medical science, social criticism and political dissent. I doubt that Jimbo has rigid ideological beliefs about unorthodox medical science.
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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Eric Corbett » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:55 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Richard Gale and Gary Null wrote:Is it everything it purports to be as an objective encyclopedic source of knowledge or just another anti-democratic social media dynasty resorting to the censorship and suppression of unorthodox medical science, social criticism and political dissent contrary to its founder’s rigid ideological beliefs?
Obviously, there is no shortage of bias on Wikipedia due to POV and COI among editors. However, presumably these gentlemen are objecting to a lack of bias towards their own POV and maybe COI regarding unorthodox medical science, social criticism and political dissent. I doubt that Jimbo has rigid ideological beliefs about unorthodox medical science.
I doubt that too. One very evident trend on Wikipedia is the rise of the pseudoscience advocacy group, which has had the result that anything outside the orthodoxy is inevitably considered to be mumbo jumbo. Often it may be when looked at in a certain light, but there are always other lights to see by.

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by tarantino » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:35 am

I wrote:
Midsize Jake wrote:
[s]Gary Null[/s] wrote:Wikimedia’s latest project is dedicated entirely to the problem of Fake News. WikiTribune is a crowd-sourced journalism and fact-checking platform that pairs professional journalists with volunteers, paying the pros via a crowdfunding campaign while tasking the volunteers with fact-checking and editing the articles...
More profiting off the brand confusion for Jimbo, and that's just for starters with this guy.

That's not to say I don't completely agree with his ultimate conclusion, of course.
The text was written by Helen Buyniski, as the byline says. On the accompanying podcast Null reiterates that.

It seems Buyniski spent some time reading WO and wikipedia review, and the missing footnotes would probably show that. She got a few things wrong, though.

I like her concluding paragraph:
Helen Buyniski wrote:Denial is America’s national virtue. Until we are shown incontrovertible proof that a respected authority is lying to us, we cling to that authority tenaciously, lest our worldview begin to crumble. Once the world knows the truth about Wales and Wikipedia, they will wonder how they ever trusted this organization to serve as an encyclopedia, fact-checker, judge, jury and executioner. Gazing upon the ruins of one of the greatest frauds of the 21st century, they will be forced to wonder who else is lying to them. Therefore, it will not be the mainstream media who exposes the truth, for they are too invested in the status quo. Only brave independent journalists will have the integrity to expose this deception and bring the fraudulent edifice of Jimmy Wales crashing down once and for all.
Chris Hedges (T-H-L) just interviewed Helen Buyniski on RT's On Contact. I haven't watched it yet.

ON CONTACT: Wikipedia – A Tool Of The Ruling Elite

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Bezdomni » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:35 am

I guess the likelihood of that interview being added to Criticism of Wikipedia (T-H-L) isn't that great. (There are 3400+ links to rt.com on en.wp, but I suspect getting one added to that particular page might be tricky. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, of course.)

In any case, Kingsindian's blogpost on the Minassian report has had quite an influence. ^^
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"Wikipedia: A tool of the ruling elite"

Unread post by Kingsindian » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:43 pm

[A Wikipedia editor alerted me to the story]

Chris Hedges has a show on RT America called "On Contact". He interviewed journalist Helen Buynitski on the topic "Wikipedia: A tool of the ruling elite". Somebody you might know makes a cameo appearance at around the 16:00 minute mark.

Apparently, the story is based on this article by Buynitski, published in August on Gary Null's site. It's quite long and I only skimmed it. Sashi's writings about Minassian etc. is also cited in the article. Here's a version with footnotes. Several other things, like the Phillip Cross stuff is also included in the article.

The article seems a bit too sympathetic to the "alternative medicine" stuff, but as I said, I only skimmed it. About the only thing I know about Gary Null is that he once sued a manufacturer of his own product claiming that consuming the product nearly killed him.

I don't know Ms. Buynitski (or Chris Hedges), so I assume she reads WO sometimes. You might want to add her to the press contact list or whatever.

------------------------------

Btw, sorry I haven't been posting too much lately. I've been really swamped the past month or so, leaving me less time for Wikipedia-related activities. Hopefully things will ease up in a couple of weeks.

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Re: "Wikipedia: A tool of the ruling elite"

Unread post by Kingsindian » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:32 pm

Oops, I realized there's already a thread on this. Should be merged.

Done - t

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Poetlister » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:43 pm

This is picked up by a site called Newspressed.com.
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Re: "Wikipedia: A tool of the ruling elite"

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:40 am

Kingsindian wrote:I don't know Ms. Buynitski (or Chris Hedges), so I assume she reads WO sometimes. You might want to add her to the press contact list or whatever.
It should perhaps be noted that Ms. Buynitski is now actually employed by RT, which I'm guessing is why she was chosen to be the guest on Mr. Hedges' show. (No appearance fees, you see.) Hedges, in turn, is a fairly prominent American almost-far-left-winger who has written many books and appeared in many FSTV and LinkTV documentaries on the scourge of modern capitalism and the need for a revolution of some kind to topple America's corrupt ruling elites and their imperialist war machine (which, by sheer coincidence, is viewed by RT's owners as one of the main things standing in the way of Russian territorial expansionism). Presumably RT has hired him (along with Ms. Buynitski) to prove that they don't really care which side of the political spectrum their American employees are on, as long as they relentlessly criticize the American government, the American mainstream media, and at least 90 percent of Americans in general.

Again, however, I can't really disagree with Buynitski's overall conclusions about Wikipedia, despite knowing that doing so probably plays directly into Vladimir Putin's greedy little hands.
Btw, sorry I haven't been posting too much lately. I've been really swamped the past month or so, leaving me less time for Wikipedia-related activities. Hopefully things will ease up in a couple of weeks.
Sorry, this was the most sentimental-looking thing I could find that allowed hot-linking:

Image

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Johnny Au » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:24 am

I will not be surprised if TruthDig were to become a pro-Russian website.

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:53 am

Johnny Au wrote:I will not be surprised if TruthDig were to become a pro-Russian website.
They're a charter member of the PropOrNot.com list, so as far as some people are concerned, they already are - along with about 200 other self-proclaimed "independent" news sites.

TruthDig's reaction to being on the list is probably best-summarized here, FWIW. It's fairly typical of most of the listed sites, essentially amounting to "this is ridiculous, these fake ads on Facebook are silly and couldn't possibly have swung the 2016 election." In other words, the sort of thing someone would claim if they'd never actually been to Michigan, Wisconsin, or Ohio, knocked on a few doors, and met any of the voters there.

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ON CONTACT: Wikipedia – A Tool Of The Ruling Elite

Unread post by No Ledge » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:33 pm

ON CONTACT: Wikipedia – A Tool Of The Ruling Elite with Chris Hedges (T-H-L) interviewing investigative journalist Helen Buyniski on RT.

They discuss a quote by Kings Indian!


Moderator's note: Merged into existing thread.
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Re: Wikipedia: "Tool of the Global Elite"?

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:44 am

I should probably do a blog post about this, but basically the problem is twofold: First, when you have people claiming to be left-wingers saying "Wikipedia is biased against left-wingers," Wikipedians can point to lots and lots and lots of material produced by the far right saying that Wikipedia is biased against right-wingers, so it makes Wikipedians look like moderates and rationalists, which is quite often not the case. And, since Russia is the funding source of most of this (supposedly left-wing) "critique," it's almost worthless to begin with - you can't really use it without taking the risk of becoming part of the Russian troll-farm problem yourself, whether or not you believe it really is a problem.

The second thing involves what these people are saying, or at least implying: that Wikipedia is strong, that it's a "lever of power" used by the coercive right-wing neo-liberal militarist state, and that it protects the global elites from, ehh, "criticism," as if the global elites actually care about what anyone thinks of them at this point. They're also completely focused on political content, as if the 97 percent of Wikipedia's content that isn't political is just there as "window dressing" to distract the rubes. In actual fact, Wikipedia as a system is fundamentally weak, easy to manipulate (if you know how), and way too concerned with trivia, rules and minutiae to even notice when it's being manipulated half the time. Their two saving graces are that there can only be one article existing for any given title, and that they still have, for now at least, enough admins to deal with most of the really obvious abuses, even while those same admins are often involved in all sorts of abuses of their own.

Meanwhile, the mere existence of articles like Deep state in the United States (T-H-L) and QAnon (T-H-L) is enough to legitimize these phony-baloney subjects. It doesn't matter that the first sentence in each article clearly states that these are conspiracy theories, because the people they're aimed at have all been trained to assume that anything being described as a "conspiracy theory" must, by necessity, be true. And now, of course, you also have Central American migrant caravans (T-H-L), because obviously.

Long story short, these are tough times for Wikipedia critics. Nobody (or perhaps I should say "hardly anybody") wants to contribute to the demise of democracy and the End of Civilization As We Know It, but again, even if her interpretation of the arguments is wrong and/or propagandistic, Buynitsky's ultimate conclusion is correct: If Wikipedia is the main thing standing between us and the abyss, then we're screwed, and frankly we might as well all jump in now and get it over with.

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Re: Wikipedia: "Tool of the Global Elite"?

Unread post by Anroth » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:32 am

Midsize Jake wrote: And now, of course, you also have Central American migrant caravans (T-H-L), because obviously.
Be fair, there is a good article to be written about the migrant caravan, causes, humanitarian issues, political implications etc.

Shame thats not it...

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Re: Wikipedia: Friend or Fraud?

Unread post by Poetlister » Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:09 pm

Midsize Jake wrote:In other words, the sort of thing someone would claim if they'd never actually been to Michigan, Wisconsin, or Ohio, knocked on a few doors, and met any of the voters there.
Ot indeed, even if you had done that but wanted to rubbish any suggestion that hostile entities did have an effect on the election.
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Re: Wikipedia: "Tool of the Global Elite"?

Unread post by disembodied cat head » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:23 pm

It should perhaps be noted that Ms. Buynitski is now actually employed by RT, which I'm guessing is why she was chosen to be the guest on Mr. Hedges' show. (No appearance fees, you see.)
1. RT doesn't pay appearance fees
2. I did that interview on 4 September, a month before joining RT as a paid contributor. It's dated in a few other ways perceptive viewers will notice (Philip Cross hadn't been perma-banned yet, nor had Sagecandor yet been confirmed as a sock of Cirt).
so, nice try but...
(then again, i don't expect anyone who believes PropOrNot is a source of truth to get their facts straight :XD )
as for relentlessly criticizing the American gov't & mainstream media, as soon as they cease being worthy of criticism, I'll be happy to stop! If mainstream media were willing to honestly cover American politics, there wouldn't be so many Americans working for RT. (& i do think you have it backwards re: criticizing 90% of Americans - last time i checked it was the American media doing this, via vote-shaming ["if you vote 3rd party, you vote WITH SATAN" etc] & identity-politics balkanization. It's become so integral to the discourse that you may not even know you're dismissing something because it aired on RT out of an us vs. them mentality - as if something tacitly endorsed by Russian TV could not also be in the best interests of non-ruling-class Americans (cf. your comment on "Vladimir Putin's greedy little hands"). the enemy of your enemy is not your friend, as it might be useful (for example) to remind American liberals who have embraced the FBI "because Trump" despite its decades-long history of crushing Leftist groups.
& it's important to note that Wikipedia is _A_ tool of the global elite, not _THE ONLY_ such tool. Surely you don't think Jimmy Wales has been a repeat guest at Davos for his stunning fashion sense?
(btw i am interested in discussing the actual content of the interview & related articles with anyone willing to go beyond "OMG RUSSIA." Since i'm coming at the topic as a total Wikipedia outsider, any input from actual Wikipedia users is helpful. send me an email)

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Midsize Jake
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Re: Wikipedia: "Tool of the Global Elite"?

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:13 pm

disembodied cat head wrote:(& i do think you have it backwards re: criticizing 90% of Americans - last time i checked it was the American media doing this, via vote-shaming ["if you vote 3rd party, you vote WITH SATAN" etc] & identity-politics balkanization.
It's not an either-or situation, though. By demonizing the two major parties, rightly or wrongly, in effect you're criticizing everyone who votes for them (and/or those who wouldn't vote for candidates from a third party), and they're not all doing it simply because they hate the other side or because the media is manipulating them. (Obviously I would argue that more right-wingers do it for those reasons than left-wingers, but that's just me.) And as for identity politics, I'm sorry, but for liberals, your working for RT probably eliminates any standing you might have otherwise had to criticize anyone who treats racism, sexism, or homophobia as important political issues (i.e., reasons to vote against certain people). I know it won't stop you and maybe it shouldn't, but then again, I'm not saying it makes you a bad person either - just that this is the price you pay for working there, at least under the current social conditions.
...as if something tacitly endorsed by Russian TV could not also be in the best interests of non-ruling-class Americans (cf. your comment on "Vladimir Putin's greedy little hands").
Is it in the interests of the 99 percent to have Russia expand its territory into the Baltic states, or take over the rest of Ukraine? Please, make your case - I'm just not seeing it, sorry. Putting that aside though, RT endorses lots of things that would be helpful to the 99 percent. It just doesn't endorse the main thing that would be helpful to the 99 percent.
...the enemy of your enemy is not your friend, as it might be useful (for example) to remind American liberals who have embraced the FBI "because Trump" despite its decades-long history of crushing Leftist groups.
You're definitely right about that, but you know, desperate times require desperate solutions, politics makes strange bedfellows, etc., etc...? I mean, in the past they've probably crushed a few right-wing groups too, at least the ones the ATF or the DEA didn't get to first.
& it's important to note that Wikipedia is _A_ tool of the global elite, not _THE ONLY_ such tool. Surely you don't think Jimmy Wales has been a repeat guest at Davos for his stunning fashion sense?
I do like this mode of thinking, but it needs fleshing-out, and not necessarily of the "Wikipedia isn't treating our cause fairly so it must be part of the conspiracy" variety. And I don't mean that as a criticism of you, either - it's just that in the past, we've seen journalists get scared off when they find out how deep the rabbit-hole goes. (Dan Murphy being the obvious exception.) And you can't really blame them either, because let's face it, it's not a story most folks want to read - most people want to believe that the no-cost, ad-free "encyclopedia" they can look things up on with their smartphones is "safe." Helps get them through the day, I guess.

As for Jimbo, that all started with an invitation from Richard Branson to his private island (was that 2006, 2007 maybe?), where he met Tony Blair and Bono, among others. Jimbo is basically a narcissist and a grifter, so he probably told all these guys that he has much more influence over actual WP content than he did even then, and certainly more than he does now. That's why they sponsored him to go to Davos the first few times... I don't think we actually know if he's been paying his own way during the past few years or if Blair has been footing the bill (as you know, Jimbo is married to one of Blair's personal secretaries). That might be an interesting thing to find out, but either way, it's usually pretty hard to draw a direct line from Jimbo's grift-related activities to specific content-related disputes and decisions, and how they might affect the Davos-goers of the world. If he's doing it, it's way behind the scenes, and somehow nobody's talking. The Philip Cross brouhaha is the closest he's gotten to anything like that in quite a while, at least in a way that could be seen by outsiders.

Anyway, I'm glad you're here and thank you for registering. (Also, I apologize for not noticing the dates WRT to the TV appearance.)

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Re: Wikipedia: "Tool of the Global Elite"?

Unread post by Poetlister » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:39 pm

:welcome: disembodied cat head. I can see that you'll fit in well here. You need an avatar though.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Bezdomni
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Re: Wikipedia: "Tool of the Global Elite"?

Unread post by Bezdomni » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:25 pm

Helen, I imagine that you have an en.wp account. One thing I've found useful for reading TP discussions is an add-on allowing you to see which users have been blocked (directly in the TP discussions they've participated in, whether archived or not). At some point I installed the script, which is an interesting artifact in itself, as it enables common accounts to have more of a mod-view I think. (Some talk pages are total graveyards these days.)

The script was created by MusikAnimal, like so many other tools. To install it you need to create a subpage with a link to the javascript as I've done here. Since I'm blocked and can't create pages, I cannot undo that "gamer" skin.

I don't use a tenth of the functions I see written into the code, but that little line indicating that a user has been blocked is helpful information when someone is engaged in journalistic/scholarly study of Wiki-histories.
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