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Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeopathy 
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Unread post Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeopathy
Jimbo catches a cold. Decides he will go to war against homeopathy. (He picks such challenging opponents, doesn't he?)

One quote of Jimbo's doesn't even make logical sense:
Quote:
“What I want to know is this: why is this legal?” Mr. Wales wondered. “Or, if it is not legal, then what can be done about it?”


If it's "not" legal, Jimbo, then why would we need to do anything about it?

Anyway, I left a comment:
Quote:
Fascinating how neither Wales nor BetaBeat mention that Wales is a financial investor in Quora. So, click on through to Quora, everyone! And, if you ask a question that is the least bit critical of Jimmy Wales, Quora business developer Marc Bodnick will be there within minutes to delete your question and block your IP address from the site. "What I want to know is this: why is this legal?"

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:39 pm WWW
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
thekohser wrote:
Jimbo catches a cold. Decides he will go to war against homeopathy. (He picks such challenging opponents, doesn't he?)

One quote of Jimbo's doesn't even make logical sense:
Quote:
“What I want to know is this: why is this legal?” Mr. Wales wondered. “Or, if it is not legal, then what can be done about it?”


If it's "not" legal, Jimbo, then why would we need to do anything about it?

Anyway, I left a comment:
Quote:
Fascinating how neither Wales nor BetaBeat mention that Wales is a financial investor in Quora. So, click on through to Quora, everyone! And, if you ask a question that is the least bit critical of Jimmy Wales, Quora business developer Marc Bodnick will be there within minutes to delete your question and block your IP address from the site. "What I want to know is this: why is this legal?"

I doubt a real pharmacist would be recommending homoeopathic medicine - and I have no idea what a "clerk" is anyhow. Was he even in a pharmacy or was he in a health food shop?

There is an old adage, "A cold normally lasts a week, but with treatment can be made better in 7 days." I'd also be interested in what Jimbo said to elicit this response. Getting unsolicited medical advice when you just say "A packet of cough drops, please" seems a little odd.

I'm on-side with Jimbo on the anti-homeopathy kick, but as with all things Jimbo-esque, you can't help feeling that there is more to the story.

Oh, and reading Jimbo's reply to the comments, you gain the impression that Jimbo thinks he is a medical expert. He has pronounced that vaccination is all very simple and straight forward, so we don't need to worry ourselves about that then.

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:58 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
dogbiscuit wrote:
I doubt a real pharmacist would be recommending homoeopathic medicine - and I have no idea what a "clerk" is anyhow. Was he even in a pharmacy or was he in a health food shop?

There is an old adage, "A cold normally lasts a week, but with treatment can be made better in 7 days." I'd also be interested in what Jimbo said to elicit this response. Getting unsolicited medical advice when you just say "A packet of cough drops, please" seems a little odd.

I'm on-side with Jimbo on the anti-homeopathy kick, but as with all things Jimbo-esque, you can't help feeling that there is more to the story.

Oh, and reading Jimbo's reply to the comments, you gain the impression that Jimbo thinks he is a medical expert. He has pronounced that vaccination is all very simple and straight forward, so we don't need to worry ourselves about that then.

Yeah, the pharmacist story sounds a bit fishy. There was long discussion on his talk from last week that he didn't comment on.

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:23 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
Quote:
While suffering from a cold, Mr. Wales asked a pharmacist in London to suggest a remedy.


He's either extremely ignorant, to the point where he shouldn't even be in the business of debunking folk remedies, or he's setting up a straw-man to make a case he's been planning to make for some time. That is, dishonest. Those are your options.

Why anyone would be interested in what Wales, a man of no particular education or accomplishment, has to say on this matter, is beyond me.

ADDDING: To be fair to Wales, the comment that he was "suffering from a cold" and "asked a pharmacist to suggest a remedy" is a complete distortion of what Wales actually wrote (he complained of cold-like symptoms, was interested in something analgesic, and a clerk suggested some herbal remedy or something. Wales does not say if he solicited the clerk's advice or not.)


Last edited by DanMurphy on Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.



Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:24 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
dogbiscuit wrote:
He has pronounced that vaccination is all very simple and straight forward, so we don't need to worry ourselves about that then.


The biggest problem with vaccination is the people who dont do it...

:evilgrin:


Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:25 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
Anroth wrote:
dogbiscuit wrote:
He has pronounced that vaccination is all very simple and straight forward, so we don't need to worry ourselves about that then.


The biggest problem with vaccination is the people who dont do it...

:evilgrin:

We were the sort of parents who would have happily hosted a chickenpox party. The more bugs the better!

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:41 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
DanMurphy wrote:

ADDDING: To be fair to Wales, the comment that he was "suffering from a cold" and "asked a pharmacist to suggest a remedy" is a complete distortion of what Wales actually wrote (he complained of cold-like symptoms, was interested in something analgesic, and a clerk suggested some herbal remedy or something. Wales does not say if he solicited the clerk's advice or not.)

Very sloppy reporting if it was simply a re-write of the blog. The story doesn't really ring true, but has a truthiness about it - typical Jimbo; not lying but embellishing to his advantage, and then perhaps bigging it up in a confirmation phone call.

The trouble with the story is that pharmacists usually work in a supervisory role to the shop front and any shop assistant doing anything other than pointing you in the right direction for something you have asked for is probably breaking some law or other as they are not in any way qualified to give medical advice.

A typical conversation would be something like "I'd like some ear drops." "Are you going to have your ears syringed?" "????" "Oh, you have x for unbunging and y if you are going to be syringed." Then there is some little dance they do to catch the pharmacist's eye so they can approve the medical sale.

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:51 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
My favorite reply from Jimbo on his blog:
Quote:
Gustavo, I've joined whoever else downvoted your remarks in downvoting them myself. But it is not because I'm a hater, and I wish you the best in life.

But really, you need to learn a few things about how to think clearly in life, or you are going to be the victim of much worse scams than this.

I can recommend some resources if you're interested, but otherwise, as I say, I wish you well in life.


Talk about killing them with kindness.

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:54 pm WWW
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
There's also a certain irony or hypocrisy in Jimbo ever typing a message to someone that reads: "You are the victim of the scam." Takes one to know one, I'm sure.

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:19 pm WWW
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
thekohser wrote:
There's also a certain irony or hypocrisy in Jimbo ever typing a message to someone that reads: "You are the victim of the scam." Takes one to know one, I'm sure.

It strikes me that Jimbo has a real enthusiasm for Quora because it allows him to pontificate without breaking policy. He can't really hold forth on Wikipedia which I guess is really boring to him now, hence his complete intolerance for any nonsense he perceives there. Wikipedia is a chore, Quora is his hobby time between engagements and the search for wife no. 5 (always be one step ahead).

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:44 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
dogbiscuit wrote:
Anroth wrote:
dogbiscuit wrote:
He has pronounced that vaccination is all very simple and straight forward, so we don't need to worry ourselves about that then.


The biggest problem with vaccination is the people who dont do it...

:evilgrin:

We were the sort of parents who would have happily hosted a chickenpox party. The more bugs the better!


Ya planning a Shingles Party reunion?

RfB


Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:42 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
Have any of you gentlemen (Wales included) been into a major American chain drugstore lately? CVS, for example, now has considerable shelf space dedicated to homeopathic and herbal remedies.

They sell the stuff because people ask for it, and because it's horrifically profitable.
To hell with what the pharmacist thinks, apparently.

(PS: wanna see really hostile corporate coverage by WP? CVS Pharmacy (T-H-L). It makes CVS look like a giant criminal enterprise. Deserved or not? Where are the paid editors now?)

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:01 pm WWW
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
EricBarbour wrote:
Have any of you gentlemen (Wales included) been into a major American chain drugstore lately? CVS, for example, now has considerable shelf space dedicated to homeopathic and herbal remedies.

They sell the stuff because people ask for it, and because it's horrifically profitable.
To hell with what the pharmacist thinks, apparently.

(PS: wanna see really hostile corporate coverage by WP? CVS Pharmacy (T-H-L). It makes CVS look like a giant criminal enterprise. Deserved or not? Where are the paid editors now?)

Quite. I watch TV from time to time and see commercials that guarantee some herbal pill or another will cause you to lose 5lbs a week. All sorts of bullshit is eagerly consumed by the gullible -- homeopathic remedies and Wikipedia alike. Wales should be careful -- though he probably doesn't realize the elixir he peddles is much like the ones he currently derides.


Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:26 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
As a veteran of the Wikipedia homeopathy wars of yesteryear, it is pretty amusing to see Mr. Wales hold forth on the subject. Famously, Dana Ullman was banned from Wikipedia for conflicted promotion of homeopathy. He was subsequently welcomed with open arms by Citizendium where he proceeded to make the articles on the subject read like a paen to nonsense.


Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:14 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
thekohser wrote:
My favorite reply from Jimbo on his blog:
Quote:
Gustavo, I've joined whoever else downvoted your remarks in downvoting them myself. But it is not because I'm a hater, and I wish you the best in life.

But really, you need to learn a few things about how to think clearly in life, or you are going to be the victim of much worse scams than this.

I can recommend some resources if you're interested, but otherwise, as I say, I wish you well in life.


Talk about killing them with kindness.
Talk about killing them with kindness in life.

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:18 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
DanMurphy wrote:
Quite. I watch TV from time to time and see commercials that guarantee some herbal pill or another will cause you to lose 5lbs a week. All sorts of bullshit is eagerly consumed by the gullible -- homeopathic remedies and Wikipedia alike. Wales should be careful -- though he probably doesn't realize the elixir he peddles is much like the ones he currently derides.

I'm not sure if Quora changed something or if that thread is "special", but I was actually able to read it. As the homeopathy fans start rolling in, I wonder if Jimmy will finally end up on the downside of Quora's true-believer upvote/downvote issue.

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:31 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
EricBarbour wrote:
Have any of you gentlemen (Wales included) been into a major American chain drugstore lately? CVS, for example, now has considerable shelf space dedicated to homeopathic and herbal remedies...

You have to be careful to separate 'homeopathic' from 'herbal' remedies. Some of these herbal concoctions are really powerful. My wife used to make me take this 'Pet Calm' stuff every time we went on a road trip with the kids, to make me behave better. That stuff was incredible - forget the exact name - but it was made for dogs and cats and had valerian root and chamomile and a bunch of other stuff in it.


Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:38 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
TungstenCarbide wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:
Have any of you gentlemen (Wales included) been into a major American chain drugstore lately? CVS, for example, now has considerable shelf space dedicated to homeopathic and herbal remedies...

You have to be careful to separate 'homeopathic' from 'herbal' remedies. Some of these herbal concoctions are really powerful. My wife used to make me take this 'Pet Calm' stuff every time we went on a road trip with the kids, to make me behave better. That stuff was incredible - forget the exact name - but it was made for dogs and cats and had valerian root and chamomile and a bunch of other stuff in it.

I've heard that marijuana is great for getting people to eat their cheese puffs, but haven't seen any scientific evidence to back up the claim.

I can report from personal experience however that rheumatoid arthritis and echinacea supplements are a very bad mix.

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Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:50 pm
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
SB_Johnny wrote:
TungstenCarbide wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:
Have any of you gentlemen (Wales included) been into a major American chain drugstore lately? CVS, for example, now has considerable shelf space dedicated to homeopathic and herbal remedies...

You have to be careful to separate 'homeopathic' from 'herbal' remedies. Some of these herbal concoctions are really powerful. My wife used to make me take this 'Pet Calm' stuff every time we went on a road trip with the kids, to make me behave better. That stuff was incredible - forget the exact name - but it was made for dogs and cats and had valerian root and chamomile and a bunch of other stuff in it.

I've heard that marijuana is great for getting people to eat their cheese puffs, but haven't seen any scientific evidence to back up the claim.

I can report from personal experience however that rheumatoid arthritis and echinacea supplements are a very bad mix.


Homeopathic "remedies" are just water and therefore act entirely as placebos. Herbs contain real complex chemicals and can have real benefits as well as real side-effects. They also have unpredictable strengths which vary from batch to batch and therefore it is much harder to determine an effective dose than with pharmaceuticals.


Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:32 am
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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
TungstenCarbide wrote:
You have to be careful to separate 'homeopathic' from 'herbal' remedies. Some of these herbal concoctions are really powerful.

Granted. A few herbal medications actually do something -- although I might note they are often sold and advertised for conditions they don't relieve.

Remember, the people who made Enzyte (T-H-L) went to federal prison, and the now-bankrupt company was sold to new owners--who went right back to selling Enzyte. On TV.

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Unread post Re: Wikipedian at War: Jimmy Wales Sets His Sights on Homeop
eppur si muove wrote:
Homeopathic "remedies" are just water and therefore act entirely as placebos. Herbs contain real complex chemicals and can have real benefits as well as real side-effects. They also have unpredictable strengths which vary from batch to batch and therefore it is much harder to determine an effective dose than with pharmaceuticals.


Indeed.

Some substances are classified as medical food in the US. They are regulated by the FDA, available only by prescription, and treat the symptoms of ailments such as diabetes, osteoarthritis, depression and Alzheimer's.

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