David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

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David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by di m » Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:42 pm

Moderator's note: This post has been edited for clarity. Members are reminded to please provide at least some small shred of context when starting new threads, especially on controversial topics.

https://david-collier.com/wiki-antisemitic/
https://unitedwithisrael.org/wikipedia- ... estinians/
‘Israel’, ‘Jews’, ‘Jerusalem’ these are some of the most visited pages on Wikipedia. There are 10,000s of relevant pages. Yet every page on Wikipedia that is on the subject of Israel or Palestinians is tainted – and contains lies about Jewish people. Wikipedia is an antisemitic website.

Wikipedia’s influence is unimaginable. The problem here is that Wiki fails us all. Some pages – such as the sections on Palestinian history – are incoherent and ahistorical garbage. The pages on Jews and antisemitism only help to spread a hatred of Jews. Those who set up the rules for Wikipedia may have anticipated acts of correctable terrorism on their pages – but did not foresee the war of attrition...
HN2021Y, Dear Wikipediocracians)))

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:34 pm

Dude has no significant academic, governmental, or other expert credentials; he appears to be just a totally-biased private citizen. (That doesn't necessarily mean he's wrong.) He's got about seven example articles here, and for three of them he goes into exhaustive detail. (The first one is actually pretty impressive, IMO.)

I'm not unsympathetic to this sort of effort, but I think most of us here do prefer it when bloggers who write about Wikipedia are just a wee bit more objective than this.

Anyhoo, cue the classic "anti-Israeli and anti-semitic are/are not equivalent terms" battle, I guess. :rolleyes:

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by RebeccaSaid » Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:57 am

Collier is an ethnonationalist, religious fundamentalist crank. He believes that blocking people on Twitter, who happen to be Jewish, is anti-Semitic. He'd find anti-Semitism on a blank piece of paper. That is all.
Happy New Year! :D

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Poetlister » Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:31 am

This just shows how difficult it is to be NPOV. Of course you can find anti-Semitic editors on Wikipedia, and they have introduced some highly questionable material and fought to keep it in. Of course many of them protest that they are not anti-Semitic, just anti-Israel. That's why there's an internationally agreed definition of anti-Semitism, which ought to be a Wikipedia policy. [Cue quibbles about the policy.] That's not quite the same as saying that the whole of Wikipedia is irredeemably anti-Semitic.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by di m » Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:12 pm

Thanks a lot, Moderator, Midsize Jake, RebeccaSaid, Poetlister
I invited David here to describe, explain his point or field of view

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by AndyTheGrump » Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:41 pm

di m wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:12 pm
Thanks a lot, Moderator, Midsize Jake, RebeccaSaid, Poetlister
I invited David here to describe, explain his point or field of view
'David'? Are you on first name terms with him?

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by C&B » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:00 pm

di m wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:42 pm

HN2021Y, Dear Wikipediocracians)))
And what's With the triple parentheses?
"Someone requests clarification and before you know it you find yourself in the Star Chamber."

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:08 pm

di m wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:12 pm
Thanks a lot, Moderator, Midsize Jake, RebeccaSaid, Poetlister
I invited David here to describe, explain his point or field of view
Well, feel free to leave and take him with you if this is the type of thing you're going to post.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by di m » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:42 pm

AndyTheGrump wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:41 pm
di m wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:12 pm
Thanks a lot, Moderator, Midsize Jake, RebeccaSaid, Poetlister
I invited David here to describe, explain his point or field of view
'David'? Are you on first name terms with him?
O please, excuse me ukrainian-jew, i am not much familiar with Western good form rules
I just thought about less respect (as i feel) in "David Collier"
Calling someone in surname in Russian sometimes is a bit pejoratively

Thank You are corrected me

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by di m » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:47 pm

C&B wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:00 pm
di m wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:42 pm

HN2021Y, Dear Wikipediocracians)))
And what's With the triple parentheses?
OMG, Something New For Me}}} Thank You!]]]

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by di m » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:03 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:08 pm
di m wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:12 pm
Thanks a lot, Moderator, Midsize Jake, RebeccaSaid, Poetlister
I invited David here to describe, explain his point or field of view
Well, feel free to leave and take him with you if this is the type of thing you're going to post.
Please, in any case was not my intention
hide or shut or distort something or trick or outwit someone

Hope i will learn how to post better

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Poetlister » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:37 pm

You have to watch those triple brackets. Some anti-Semites use it to indicate that someone is a Jew and therefore maybe a bad person. See Triple parentheses (T-H-L).
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by rhindle » Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:42 pm

When I first saw this thread I thought it might be about the guy who starred in Full House and was mentioned in an Alanis Morissette song.

Boy was I disappointed.
:sadbanana:

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:59 pm

rhindle wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:42 pm
When I first saw this thread I thought it might be about the guy who starred in Full House and was mentioned in an Alanis Morissette song.
That's actually Dave Coulier (T-H-L). Trust me, I would have caught that.

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by C&B » Fri Jan 01, 2021 7:01 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 4:37 pm
You have to watch those triple brackets. Some anti-Semites use it to indicate that someone is a Jew and therefore maybe a bad person. See Triple parentheses (T-H-L).
Way to Boost your Post Count, PL...copying what Anothers have already said before.
"Someone requests clarification and before you know it you find yourself in the Star Chamber."

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by RebeccaSaid » Sat Jan 02, 2021 11:45 am

di m wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:12 pm
Thanks a lot, Moderator, Midsize Jake, RebeccaSaid, Poetlister
I invited David here to describe, explain his point or field of view
I'm already aware of his ultra-Zionist point of view, so I figured I'd share that for the benefit of those who haven't had the pleasure of Collier's previous musings. He believes that Amnesty are institutionally anti-Semitic and that they have an insidious obsession with Israel; ditto the United Nations; he claims that the Board of Deputies of British Jews are "hard-left" - they're really not, and they have nothing to do with him (or his cohorts) likely because of the right-wing extremism. He counts convicted thugs among his like-minded allies - this small group of fanatics try to destroy the lives of their political opponents. Literally. Some have lost their jobs and/or livelihoods. He's a crank. He makes Icewhiz look impartial.......

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Poetlister » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:39 pm

It's pretty undeniable that many UN institutions obsess about Israel. But the idea that the Board of Deputies of British Jews are "hard-left" is absurd.
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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:17 pm

"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." — Samuel Johnson, 1775

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:18 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:39 pm
It's pretty undeniable that many UN institutions obsess about Israel. But the idea that the Board of Deputies of British Jews are "hard-left" is absurd.
No more absurd than the inane premise that the left in general and the Labour Party in particular is "antisemitic."

t

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Poetlister » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:36 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:18 pm
Poetlister wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:39 pm
It's pretty undeniable that many UN institutions obsess about Israel. But the idea that the Board of Deputies of British Jews are "hard-left" is absurd.
No more absurd than the inane premise that the left in general and the Labour Party in particular is "antisemitic."

t
The great majority of members of the Labour party are not anti-Semitic. Yes, there is some, and this was confirmed by the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. But people are setting up a stupid straw man to suggest that either the Labour party as a whole is, or there is none in the Labour party, in order to try to discredit the findings of the commission.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by C&B » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:39 pm

The intention is to Discredit the British Left, not the Commission.
"Someone requests clarification and before you know it you find yourself in the Star Chamber."

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Poetlister » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:38 pm

C&B wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:39 pm
The intention is to Discredit the British Left, not the Commission.
No. The people attacking the Labour party never said that every member was anti-Semitic. Those claiming that there was no or negligible anti-Semitism falsely claimed that its critics said that.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by David_BTGD » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:22 pm

I wrote the piece. I am David Collier. I am not here to argue - just to correct a few pieces of disinformation on this thread.

1. I am dismissed as 'totally biased'. Everyone is. A good starting point for discussing truth is to accept we are all biased - and hope that we have enough intelligence to attempt to differentiate between fact, perspective and opinion. I do my best. As a side note I do have a distinction in a masters degree in Ethics and have been studying history for two decades. My work has appeared in major newspapers across the globe. Let's not pretend I am just some bumbling amateur. My report gave numerous detailed examples to support its argument - I see not one of those positions countered here.

2. I am smeared as an "ethnonationalist, religious fundamentalist crank". Is this really the standard of discussion here? As it happens I am a bit of a hard-core agnostic who spent years working alongside Palestinians during the Oslo years trying to build 'peace bridges' between the communities. If you could show me a future where both Israel and Palestine were two states living side by side with open trade and movement -I'd grab it without stopping to see where the borders were drawn. I tire of anonymous people who weakly smear me with empty slurs. 'Don't listen to him he is an extremist' - is not an argument.

3. "I accuse people of antisemitism for blocking Jews on Twitter". More nonsense of course. I personally don't block anyone unless they endlessly harrass me - and even then it is only temporary. I do know of antisemites who habitually block Jews to drown out their voice - but do not believe the blocking is the defining feature. As it happens - after I wrote my report on the Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign - ALEX MASSIE wrote in the Sunday Times, you'd have to work pretty hard at it (being antisemitic) to have been included. My reports are well known for setting a high standard for inclusion. I admit Twitter can create an environment for more bombastic language, but it doesn't change the lie about me in that post above.

4. I never said the whole of Wikipedia is antisemitic. I imagine there are even many corners of Wiki with editors who never think about Jews at all. But - in some areas that really matter - antisemites have certainly taken a grip on things.

5. I am called an 'ultra-Zionist' above. I don't even know what it means. I oppose radical settlers in hilltops - so I am not that 'ultra'. I believe that the Jews have a right to self-determination that is ethically sound. I think Israel was an ethical imperative. I do not deny the Palestinians should also have their state. In Israel my politics are pretty much middle of the road. I'd grab for peace if it came, but also believe Israel has the right to defend itself. Calling me an 'ultra-Zionist' in these circumstances, is just absurd.

6. I don't just believe that Amnesty are institutionally antisemitic, I wrote a 200 page report on it which included about 30 in-depth case-studies. If you think NGOs like Amnesty do not develop group-think, begin to recruit like-minded individuals and oppose dissent, you have not been paying attention to what ex-Amnesty people have been saying. As it happens with Israel - Amnesty have a clear obsession and I'd advise anyone to check the stats first. All but one of Amnesty's information gatherers on Israel is a Palestinian. How does it work when you use one of the sides to report on a conflict? One was caught calling Islamic Jihad terrorists 'heroes' - another caught giving advice to Hamas about how to pretend their fallen militants (terrorists) are innocent civilians. All the case studies highlighted a clear bias. As with the UN - these organisations can only be a sum of their parts. I'd find it odd that anyone here would suggest we should use China, Syria, Russia, Libya or Saudi as our guide on Human Rights - so perhaps someone could explain why we should pay attention to the UN Human rights council - which is just a body made up of these types of nations. It is known the UN is grossly biased against Israel - even UN chiefs have admitted it - so I find an attempt to dismiss my opinion because I stated the obvious - is a little lame.

7. I did not claim the Board of Deputies is hard-left. This is just another empty smear. In fact MVD - the current Chair is someone I admire. I have quite a few friends who are deputies. I have said there are elements in the BoD - who are hard-left - but that isn't the same thing at all. Of course as always my claims came with case studies and hard evidence. It seems accuracy to some here is expected of others whilst not practised on a personal level.

8. Apparently the BoD have nothing to do with me. This lie above is used to suggest I am an extreme right winger. Except of course they do have lots to do with me. I'd imagine those few hard-left Deupties do not like me much but as stated I am in close contact with several Deputies, including those in official positions.

I think that just about covers it. It would have been nice, instead of reducing the thread to mindless empty smears - if the actual content of my post had been covered - but hey - I can only respond to what is here.

Have a great 2021....

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:46 pm

David_BTGD wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2021 6:22 pm
Have a great 2021....
Thanks... you too! :)

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by di m » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:54 am

Wikipedia is at war with the Jews. Make no mistake about this
https://unitedwithisrael.org/make-no-mi ... -the-jews/

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Poetlister » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:32 am

di m wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:54 am
Wikipedia is at war with the Jews. Make no mistake about this
https://unitedwithisrael.org/make-no-mi ... -the-jews/
As I said before, there is no shortage of anti-Semitic editing on Wikipedia, some of which persists. That is a different thing from claiming that the whole site is anti-Semitic.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Giraffe Stapler » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:41 pm

di m wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:54 am
Wikipedia is at war with the Jews. Make no mistake about this
https://unitedwithisrael.org/make-no-mi ... -the-jews/
The enemy (Larry Sanger) of my enemy (Wikipedia) is my friend? In this case, the friends of your friend may be your enemies...

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Poetlister » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:07 pm

Giraffe Stapler wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:41 pm
di m wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:54 am
Wikipedia is at war with the Jews. Make no mistake about this
https://unitedwithisrael.org/make-no-mi ... -the-jews/
The enemy (Larry Sanger) of my enemy (Wikipedia) is my friend? In this case, the friends of your friend may be your enemies...
The article only mentions Larry Sanger to quote his remark ‘nobody should trust Wikipedia’, not to support the article's contentions. On the contrary, it says "Sanger fails to comprehend the true scale of the problem".
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by ArmasRebane » Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:47 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:07 pm
Giraffe Stapler wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:41 pm
di m wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:54 am
Wikipedia is at war with the Jews. Make no mistake about this
https://unitedwithisrael.org/make-no-mi ... -the-jews/
The enemy (Larry Sanger) of my enemy (Wikipedia) is my friend? In this case, the friends of your friend may be your enemies...
The article only mentions Larry Sanger to quote his remark ‘nobody should trust Wikipedia’, not to support the article's contentions. On the contrary, it says "Sanger fails to comprehend the true scale of the problem".
Yeah, but actually believing Sanger's claims about Wikipedia in any capacity demonstrates diminished capacity for reason. Sanger is only "right" about Wikipedia if you believe that pseudoscience and far-right apologia is "the truth" and must be treated equally to actual facts. That's not a great starting position to advocate for how it also demonstrates antisemitism.

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Poetlister » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:49 pm

ArmasRebane wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:47 pm
Yeah, but actually believing Sanger's claims about Wikipedia in any capacity demonstrates diminished capacity for reason. Sanger is only "right" about Wikipedia if you believe that pseudoscience and far-right apologia is "the truth" and must be treated equally to actual facts. That's not a great starting position to advocate for how it also demonstrates antisemitism.
That's a good point. Of course, a lot of anti-Semitism comes from the far right, so accepting far-right apologia as "the truth" would if anything increase the amount of anti-Semitism.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Hemiauchenia » Fri Dec 10, 2021 6:43 pm

On the 30 November, Bob drobbs (T-C-L) created an article for David Collier, entitled David Collier (political activist) (T-H-L), this has lead to an extremely contentious AfD Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Collier (political activist) (T-H-L). which is in my opinion is leaning towards delete.

This also resulted in a (now archived) spillover into ANI, Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1086#One_sided_fight_with_Huldra (T-H-L)

Amongst other comments he has made about Wikipedia, Collier has claimed that it is "at war with the jews" https://david-collier.com/wikipedia-war/ and is "the most active spreader of antisemitism on the planet" https://david-collier.com/wikipedia-antisemitic/
Last edited by Hemiauchenia on Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Anroth » Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:25 pm

Okay now opening the book on an IP ban for Nob Drobbs, how long and who by....

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Hemiauchenia » Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:24 pm

Bob drobbs has now opened an AE request against Nableezy (T-C-L) whom David Collier has attacked in several of his blog posts. Another sock of NoCal100 (T-C-L)/Ido Sarig, Inf-in MD (T-C-L) has also been blocked.
Last edited by Hemiauchenia on Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by FelinaLavandula » Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:27 pm

:popcorn:

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by FelinaLavandula » Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:36 pm

Rosguill wrote:I don't see much merit to the complaints relating to David Collier, which leaves us with 2 incidents of Nableezy stating that they think Bob drobbs should be blocked, at which point Bob drobbs asked them to stop. 9 days later, Nableezy asks Bob drobbs to stop edit warring at Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign, where they did go back and forth a few times with Huldra, as part of the discussion to resolve the dispute on the talk page. This case is flimsy enough that I would consider WP:BOOMERANG sanctions.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

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Re: David Collier: "Wikipedia is an antisemitic website"

Unread post by Hemiauchenia » Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:00 am

The David Collier article has now been deleted. The AE seems to be heading towards a boomerang topic ban from IP for Bobb drobbs

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