Kavanaugh-related Wikipedia articles

[MrErnie]

The allegation against Kavanaugh is of course resonating widely across Wikipedia. Sashi's old friend Sagecandor has returned to greatly expand the Christine Blasey Ford article linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Blasey_Ford[/link] and make a few minor edits to the Mark Judge article linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Judge_(writer)[/link]. There's no way Mark Judge is notable enough for a stand alone article, but there's really no chance it will be deleted. Even though Kavanaugh is up for a job a league apart from Sarah Jeong, it is always interesting to see the political regulars act one way for a darling of the Left vs a dire enemy.

[Earthy Astringent]

It’s a “fuck you” to their enemies and stalkers.

[Randy from Boise]

It’s a “fuck you” to their enemies and stalkers.

Truth there, I suspect...

RfB

[Midsize Jake]

...Even though Kavanaugh is up for a job a league apart from Sarah Jeong, it is always interesting to see the political regulars act one way for a darling of the Left vs a dire enemy.

I'm certainly not going to disagree with you that starting an article on Mark Judge is a politically-motivated act, but it's not "darlings of the Left" vs. "dire enemies," it's anyone who does something wrong or embarrassing that can be exploited for political gain by one side or the other. Sarah Jeong is no "darling," just as Judge is no "darling" on the right.

I'd say the key point to be made here is that Wikipedia exacerbates the problem, again on both sides, by (a) having such a large Google footprint and (b) demanding more sources for new articles than would normally be forthcoming for minor characters like Mark Judge. That puts pressure on those who seek to exploit their mistakes to get more sources, so that they can get the Google juice. People who might otherwise be quickly forgotten end up with a lot more attention than they ever could have deserved.

As for the AfD... There might have been a chance of success after a couple of months passed. By then the midterm elections will be over, which will be good for AfD purposes, but not so good for Republican purposes. That's not to say User:PackMecEng (T-C-L) (who started the AfD) is necessarily some sort of Republican operative, though.

The thing that could really decide things is whether or not Kavanaugh drops out and withdraws from the confirmation process. If he does, the chances of a successful AfD should go up dramatically - and if they don't, then there'd be a much better case for leftist hypocrisy there, I would imagine.

[Mason]

Yeesh. "Notable" for allegedly, drunkenly, bumblingly egging on and/or accidentally foiling an alleged attempted rape in the 1980s, plus also he wrote some books. That's got no business being an encyclopedia article.

[Poetlister]

Surely Mark Judge should be nominated for a senior judicial position, in the great tradition of Igor Judge, Baron Judge (T-H-L).

[tarantino]

The allegation against Kavanaugh is of course resonating widely across Wikipedia. Sashi's old friend Sagecandor has returned to greatly expand the Christine Blasey Ford article linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Blasey_Ford[/link] and make a few minor edits to the Mark Judge article linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Judge_(writer)[/link]. There's no way Mark Judge is notable enough for a stand alone article, but there's really no chance it will be deleted. Even though Kavanaugh is up for a job a league apart from Sarah Jeong, it is always interesting to see the political regulars act one way for a darling of the Left vs a dire enemy.

Alex, Dennis, NYB, etc, are you going to let Cirt get away with this?

Cirt is prohibited from editing articles that are substantially biographies of living people if, broadly but reasonably construed, (i) the articles already refer to politics or religion or social controversy; or (ii) his edits introduce to the articles material about politics or religion or social controversy. However, Cirt is permitted to edit other articles that refer incidentally to such living people providing (i) the focus of the articles is not substantially biographical and (ii) his edits are not biographical in nature.

Should Cirt's continued editing raise further concerns about his compliance with the BLP policy, the Committee may expand the scope of this restriction by motion to include all editing relating to living persons. Conversely, if Cirt conforms his future editing to applicable policies and the principles set forth in this decision and Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Manipulation of BLPs, he may submit a request for amendment after one year from the date of this decision seeking a relaxation of this restriction.

[orangepi]

The allegation against Kavanaugh is of course resonating widely across Wikipedia. Sashi's old friend Sagecandor has returned to greatly expand the Christine Blasey Ford article linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christine_Blasey_Ford[/link] and make a few minor edits to the Mark Judge article linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Judge_(writer)[/link]. There's no way Mark Judge is notable enough for a stand alone article, but there's really no chance it will be deleted. Even though Kavanaugh is up for a job a league apart from Sarah Jeong, it is always interesting to see the political regulars act one way for a darling of the Left vs a dire enemy.

Alex, Dennis, NYB, etc, are you going to let Cirt get away with this?

I'm not touching this on-wiki with a 200 foot pole; beyond Sagecandor there's also KalHolmann, Another Believer, Casprings, and probably a few other editors I should be worried about for one reason or another.

As long as they come up with an article that doesn't include shit like "Judge partook in his first alcoholic drink at the age of 14, and felt a high and a relief from worry.", I'm going to ignore it; I'm not even going to !vote on the AfD.

[Alex Shih]

Interesting. I need to catch up on the reading but Sagecandor's editing is highly suspicious. I am certain this is being actively discussed, but I am also certain no action(s) will be taken. I may take action after some good sleep and after dealing with some RL issues.

[Mason]

I am also certain no action(s) will be taken.

Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Discretionary sanctions (T-H-L) is a thing. Any administrator can place one. Doesn't require any sort of sockpuppet trial.

I recall Newyorkbrad placed one on Qworty (T-C-L) before he was banned.

[Alex Shih]

I am also certain no action(s) will be taken.

Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Discretionary sanctions (T-H-L) is a thing. Any administrator can place one. Doesn't require any sort of sockpuppet trial.

I recall Newyorkbrad placed one on Qworty (T-C-L) before he was banned.

I can ensure you I am well aware of DS, although funnily enough I have never issued any alerts nor blocked as part of enforcement. Happy to leave them to "AE admins" usually.

[Randy from Boise]

I am also certain no action(s) will be taken.

Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Discretionary sanctions (T-H-L) is a thing. Any administrator can place one. Doesn't require any sort of sockpuppet trial.

I recall Newyorkbrad placed one on Qworty (T-C-L) before he was banned.

I can ensure you I am well aware of DS, although funnily enough I have never issued any alerts nor blocked as part of enforcement. Happy to leave them to "AE admins" usually.

Paging Sandstein, the Black-hooded Executioner.

RfB

[MrErnie]

Cirtcandor has pumped out a new book report - one of Mark Judge's so called notable books linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasted:_T ... GenX_Drunk[/link]. You'll notice most of the sources are entirely about the Kavanaugh hearing, with passing mentions to Judge and his works.

There's also this really weird post on Cullen328's page - linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk ... hank_you_2[/link].

Seriously though, where's the proper forum to present the case that Sagecandor is Cirt?

[Randy from Boise]

Cirtcandor has pumped out a new book report - one of Mark Judge's so called notable books linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasted:_T ... GenX_Drunk[/link]. You'll notice most of the sources are entirely about the Kavanaugh hearing, with passing mentions to Judge and his works.

There's also this really weird post on Cullen328's page - linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk ... hank_you_2[/link].

Seriously though, where's the proper forum to present the case that Sagecandor is Cirt?

This is actually pretty good work.

The edit to Jim Heaphy's page is downright weird, but he got me to click the link. And, yeah, it's actually pretty good work.

RfB

[Bezdomni]

This is actually pretty good work.

On your recommendation, I got as far as the second line of the lede.

He recounts his first experience drinking alcoholic beverages at the age of 14, calling it blissful.

source

[WhoReallyCares]

This is actually pretty good work.

On your recommendation, I got as far as the second line of the lede.

He recounts his first experience drinking alcoholic beverages at the age of 14, calling it blissful.

source

Per Sagecandor's user page:

I LOVE the process of writing new articles. I love the whole endeavor, from finding a new topic to write about, to researching it, to writing it, and finally saving it live on Wikipedia. I often like to work on creating a new article offsite first on a saved text file, that way I can save it live on Wikipedia with all the research fully completed in the first saved edit.

This is pure fucking bollocks. No one who knows about Wikipedia would use text files to create articles. There's no need to. They'd use their sandbox and develop the article bit by bit. Using text files would mean having to save numerous, progressive revisions. You'd end up with countless different text files.

Sagecandor / Cirt is given these articles by a professional content creator. Said creator is employed by the guy who's paid by the publishing houses. Sage is nothing more than a useful [autistic and fucking devious] idiot.

Wanna see what it looks like when you create articles from text files? If so, remember my sexy elephant. That article was intended to be Wikipedia's best about Thailand, but I don't care any more so I gave it to Paul "Ponzi" Bedson. This:

https://iqnetwork.io/wiki/persian-embas ... -16851687/

It's not finished but it took 43 text files to reach this point, and I did it this way because I didn't know what a sandbox was. I've just zipped these 43 files together and put them on my archive.org account.

The link is: https://archive.org/details/@NAME

You know my Wikipedia username. The folder you need is called "drafts". Download the RAR version as that contains the 43 text files.

Finally, trust me -- that guy Sage is lying through his fucking teeth.

[Poetlister]

No one who knows about Wikipedia would use text files to create articles. There's no need to. They'd use their sandbox and develop the article bit by bit. Using text files would mean having to save numerous, progressive revisions. You'd end up with countless different text files.

I don't follow this. If you create a text file with Notepad, and then edit it, you don't keep earlier versions.

[orangepi]

Sagecandor's book-reviews actually are fairly good (at least when they aren't directly commenting on current political controversies). It's when he does almost anything else that there are issues.

[Randy from Boise]

Sagecandor's book-reviews actually are fairly good (at least when they aren't directly commenting on current political controversies). It's when he does almost anything else that there are issues.

+1

RfB

[WhoReallyCares]

No one who knows about Wikipedia would use text files to create articles. There's no need to. They'd use their sandbox and develop the article bit by bit. Using text files would mean having to save numerous, progressive revisions. You'd end up with countless different text files.

I don't follow this. If you create a text file with Notepad, and then edit it, you don't keep earlier versions.

I see where you're coming from. This is what I did:

1. On Wikipedia I started a new article called Poetlister.
2. I added my Wikicode, sfnm references and the bibliography.
3. I previewed it regularly and continued to develop it.
4. But I did NOT save the article on Wikipedia.
4. Eventually I paused and saved the code as poetlister-1.txt
5. Next day I carried on.
6. Maybe I added new references and dropped a few I'd added the day before.
7. I then saved this new version as poetlister-2.txt
8. And so on.
9. Again -- I created articles in this manner because I didn't know what the sandbox was.

For example, here is version 30 [wikipedia-v30.txt; February 2015] of the article I gave Paul Bedson on Everipedia. It's very different to what he put online, but should render properly if you have access to a Wikipedia sandbox.

==Historical sources==
Sources for the embassy include the ''Ship of Sulaiman'', a lengthy travelogue written by the embassy's scribe in an exaggerated, metaphorical style characteristic of Safavid period literature.{{sfnm|Marcinkowski (2005)||1pp=20–21|Wyatt (1974)||2p=151|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||3pp=12–14|Kamshad (1966)|4p=7}} The account was translated into English from a British Museum manuscript cataloged as "Safineh-i Sulaimani [...] the embassy of Muhammad Hussein Beg from the Shah of Persia to the King of Siam in A.H. 1096–8".{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1p=1|Meredith-Owens (1968)||2p=48}} Historian David Wyatt considered the work "among the most important primary sources for the history of Siam in the reign of King Narai".{{sfnm|Wyatt (1974)||1p=157}} British East India Company records document aspects of the embassy's voyage from Persia to Siam and provide detail about the delegates, their entourage and cargo; a letter written by the governor of [[Fort_St._George,_India|Fort St George]] to the Persian ambassador alludes to debts accrued by the delegates and requests prompt repayment.{{sfnm|Records of the Relations between Siam and Foreign Countries in the 17th Century. Volume 3||1pp=341, 380–2, 385–386|Talboys Wheeler (1861)||2pp=139–141|Anderson (1890)||3pp=251–252}} Two French envoys sent to Siam in 1685 recorded concerns that the Persian embassy's motive might be to convert King Narai to Islam; Father [[Guy Tachard]] recounted a conversation between King Narai and [[Constantine_Phaulkon|Constance Phaulkon]] in which the king discussed the Persian delegation and stressed he had no intention of becoming a Muslim.{{sfnm|Rota (2010)||1pp=74–75|Tachard (1686)||2p=308}} Siamese sources include the ''Royal Chronicles of Ayuthaya'', though the earliest of these to cover the period in question was not written until 1795.{{sfnm|Na Pombejra (1984)||1p=470}} Aside from factual and chronological errors, a major problem with these chronicles is that the identity of non-Siamese individuals is frequently obscured by the use of generic names for foreigners and formal titles that shed little light on the name or nationality of those concerned.{{sfnm|Na Pombejra (1984)||1p=470|Marcinkowski (2005)||2p=58}}

==Background==
In the early years of the seventeenth century a Persian community took root in the Siamese capital, Ayuthaya. Prominent members of this enclave included brothers Sheikh Ahmad and Muhammad Said who arrived in the city during the reign of [[Naresuan|King Naresuan]]. Sheikh Ahmad worked closely with Kings [[Songtham]] and [[Prasat Thong]], and was eventually appointed [[Ministry_of_Foreign_Affairs_(Thailand)|Phra Khlang]], the Siamese official responsible for foreign affairs.{{sfnm|Scupin (1980)||1pp=62–64}}{{efn|A Persian-style structure in the grounds of Ayuthaya's Rajabhat Phra Nakhon Si Ayutthaya University is said to mark the grave of Sheikh Ahmad. A memorial tablet near the tomb reads "Chao Phya Boworn Rajnayok (Sheikh Ahmad), Shia-Ithna Ashari Muslim, was born in 1543 A.D. in the Paeene Shahar district of Qum, the Islamic centre of Iran. Towards the end of King Naresuan the Great's reign, Sheikh Ahmad and his retinue migrated to Ayudhaya and set up their residential and trading quarters in the Ghayee landing district. His business prospered and he became very wealthy. He married a lady named Chuey, who bore him two sons and a daughter. As a result of his contribution to the development of the port administration during King Songdham's reign, Sheikh Ahmad was appointed by royal command to be Phya Sheikh Ahmad Rattana Rahsethee, Head of Krom Tha of the Right in charge of foreign trade and responsible for settling disputes among foreigners other than Chinese. As Chula Rajmontri, leader of the Muslim community, he was the first holder of the Chula Rajmontri title and was recognized as the one who introduced the Shia-Ithna Ashari sect to Thailand. Subsequently, Sheikh Ahmad, together with his devoted friends, helped suppress an uprising in Ayudhya when a group of foreigners seized the Grand Palace. This dangerous deed led to the King promoting him to the title of Chao Phya. He thus became Chao Phya Sheikh Ahmad Rattana Dhibodi, holding the position of Principle Minister for Civil Affairs (North). During the reign of King Prasartthong, when Sheikh Ahmad was 87 years old, the king appointed him Emeritus Councilor for Civil Affairs with the new title Chao Phya Boworn Rajnayok. He passed away one year later in 1631 A.D. at the age of 88."{{sfnm|Marcinkowski (2005)||1p=85–86}}}} The Persian community grew and by the middle of the seventeenth century wielded considerable political influence in the kingdom.{{sfnm|Chularatana (2008)||1pp=43–47}} One writer described this florescence as an "Iranian revolution".{{sfnm|Subrahmanyam (1992)||1pp=348–349}} Locally resident Persians were instrumental in bringing about King Narai's accession to the throne; a large contingent of Persian soldiers was recruited from India to serve as the royal bodyguard; [[Simon de la Loubère]], French envoy to Siam in 1687, noted that "the Principal Offices of the Court, and of the Provinces were then in the hands of the Moors".{{sfnm|Subrahmanyam (1992)||1pp=348–349|Loubère (1693)||2p=112}} King Narai was strongly influenced by the Persian presence in his kingdom: he adopted a Persian style of dress, ate Persian cuisine and advocated a dining etiquette borrowed from resident Persian Muslims.{{sfnm|Scupin (1980)||1pp=66–67|Marcinkowski (2005)||2p=34|Bassett (1973)||3pp=714–715}} At least two historians have described him as an Iranophile.{{sfnm|Marcinkowski (2005)||1p=34|Rota (2010)||2pp=71–72}}

Despite King Narai's admiration for Persians and their culture, it is not clear why he sent an envoy to Persia in 1682.{{sfnm|Rota (2010)||1pp=71–72}} One possibility is that he wanted to forge diplomatic ties to consolidate existing bilateral trade; another theory is that he was seeking an alliance with Persia to counter the growth of [[Mughal empire|Mughal]] commerce and the empire's incursions into the [[Deccan sultanates]].{{sfnm|Rota (2010)||1pp=71–72}} The Persian embassy's scribe offered a different explanation, observing that King Narai "has been secretly devoted to Iran and has cherished hopes of effecting contact with our royal court".{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1pp=99–100}} Unclear too are the reasons why Shah Sulaiman responded to King Narai's envoy and dispatched a reciprocal embassy in 1685. The embassy's scribe stated emphatically that the mission's purpose was to convey goodwill, but such an innocuous motive little justifies the time and expense needed to mount the expedition.{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1p=61|Rota (2010)||2pp=73–75}} French concerns that the Persians were attempting to convert King Narai to Islam have been dismissed; one academic suggested the mission may have been countenanced by [[Sheikh Ali khan Zangeneh|Sheikh Ali Khan]], the shah's [[grand vizier]] who had a long, successful record of generating revenue for the Safavid court.{{sfnm|Rota (2010)||1pp=73–75|Matthee (1994)||2pp=83, 91}}

==The Persian embassy to Siam==
===Bandar Abbas to Madras===
In June 1685 – after a delay of six months – the embassy departed the Persian Gulf port of [[Bandar Abbas]] on an English vessel bound for [[Muscat,_Oman|Muscat]]. Ambassador Muhammad Hussein Beg led the delegation; secretary Muhammad Rabi Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim kept a written record of the journey.{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1pp=17, 20–21, 25, 29}} Following a brief sojourn in Muscat the embassy sailed eastward and arrived almost seven weeks later at the British stronghold of [[Chennai|Madras]].{{sfnm|Marcinkowski (2005)||1pp=21–22|Records of the Relations between Siam and Foreign Countries in the 17th Century. Volume 3||2pp=380–381}} East India Company records describe the delegates' reception:

{{quote|This afternoon Mr Yale and Mr Lucas brought the ambassadors ashore after they had been handsomely entertained aboard the ship, with salutes of great guns coming off, and other accustomed civilities, in their coming from the ship to the shore. They were saluted by all the ships in the road, both English and country, and upon their arrival were met at the sea gate by the President and Council, chief inhabitants, and merchants of the town, the garrison being in arms. Guards were made for them to conduct them to the Fort, with all the splendor this place affords, the great guns firing from their landing, till they came to their appointed place of reception in the fort, and after a kind welcome they were entertained with a noble banquet and music, and 31 great guns were fired to the health of each of their great Masters, which solemnity being ended they were accompanied by the President and Company to the garden house, and from thence by Mr Yale to their appointed lodgings.|Diary of Consultation, Fort St George, Madras, August 3 1685.{{sfnm|Records of the Relations between Siam and Foreign Countries in the 17th Century. Volume 3||1p=382}}}}

A few days later news arrived from England that [[Charles II of England|King Charles II]] had died.{{sfnm|Bassett (1973)||1pp=714–715|Talboys Wheeler (1861)||2p=139|Marcinkowski (2005)||3p=22|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||4p=36}} A period of mourning followed, after which a day of celebrations was organized to herald the succession of [[James II of England|King James II]]. Festivities took place under a large marquee at [[Fort St. George, India|Fort St George]]: toasts were drunk to the shah of Persia, the new king of England and the king of Siam; guests sang and danced while musicians played; unveiled European women caught the eye of the Persian embassy's secretary and inspired long, amorous passages in his official account; professional entertainers included fire jugglers and tight-rope walkers.{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1pp=36–40|Talboys Wheeler (1861)||2pp=139–141}} At one point during the day the Persian ambassador offered his best wishes for the new king's reign, a gesture that was warmly received by British officials present.{{sfnm|Talboys Wheeler (1861)||1p=141}} About three weeks later on September 7 the Persian delegates left Madras and continued their journey east across the [[Bay of Bengal]] to Siam.{{sfnm|Records of the Relations between Siam and Foreign Countries in the 17th Century. Volume 3||1pp=385–386}}{{efn|Dates given by the Persian embassy's secretary do not reconcile with East India Company records. For example, the secretary claimed the embassy departed Bandar Abbas on June 27 1685; he said fourteen days were needed to reach Muscat and, following a three-day sojourn, a further forty seven days were spent traveling to Madras. This implies the embassy arrived in Madras at the end of August.{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1pp=25, 29–30, 33}} East India Company documents record the embassy's arrival on July 29.{{sfnm|Records of the Relations between Siam and Foreign Countries in the 17th Century. Volume 3||1p=380}} Departure dates from Madras are also an issue: the embassy's secretary gave September 16; East India Company accounts give September 7.{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1p=43|Records of the Relations between Siam and Foreign Countries in the 17th Century. Volume 3||2pp=385–386}}}}

===Madras to Tenasserim===
After passing the [[Andaman Islands]] and narrowly escaping shipwreck near [[Bago, Burma|Pegu]], the embassy entered Siamese waters and weighed anchor at the port of [[Myeik, Burma|Mergui]].{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1p=43|Marcinkowski (2005)||2p=23}} Locals officials showed great respect for Shah Sulaiman's letter to King Narai: the governor and port commander boarded the delegates' ship and prostrated themselves in front of the document; escorts then took the shah's letter ashore in a beautifully decorated boat and carried it on a large throne to a guarded temple.{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1pp=44–46|Alam and Subrahmanyam (2011)||2pp=116–117|Marcinkowski (2005)||3pp=23}} After a few days' rest the delegates continued by boat to [[Tenasserim]], a town inhabited by Siamese, Indian Muslims, Hindus and Europeans.{{sfnm|Marcinkowski (2005)||1pp=23–24}} By now news had reached Ayuthaya of the Persians' arrival in Siam; [[François-Timoléon de Choisy]], France's envoy to Siam in 1685, described the behavior of the Persian ambassador in his book ''Journal ou Suite du Voyage de Siam''.{{sfnm|Choisy (1687)||1pp=242–243}} De Choisy claimed the ambassador was guilty of a "thousand impertinences": he told how the Persian complained bitterly about Siamese food, borrowed money from the local governor, and declined to pay the English captain whose ship had brought the embassy to Siam. According to de Choisy, King Narai was angered by these accusations.{{sfnm|Choisy (1687)||1pp=242–243}} More than eighteen months later the governor of Fort St George, [[Elihu Yale]], wrote a letter to the Persian ambassador, sympathizing for the "unkind entertainment at Syam" he and his entourage had been afforded. Yale added that "the Honour of your magnifficent King and his noble ambassy [...] deserved much better". Yale then reminded the ambassador of outstanding debts, noting that shipping services provided for the embassy had yet to be paid for.{{sfnm|Anderson (1890)||1pp=251–252}}

After passing the [[Andaman Islands]] and narrowly escaping shipwreck near [[Bago, Burma|Pegu]], the embassy entered Siamese waters and weighed anchor at the port of [[Myeik, Burma|Mergui]].{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1p=43|Marcinkowski (2005)||2p=23}} Locals officials showed great respect for Shah Sulaiman's letter to King Narai: the governor and port commander boarded the delegates' ship and prostrated themselves in front of the document; escorts then took the shah's letter ashore in a beautifully decorated boat and carried it on a large throne to a guarded temple.{{sfnm|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||1pp=44–46|Alam and Subrahmanyam (2011)||2pp=116–117|Marcinkowski (2005)||3pp=23}} After a few days' rest the delegates continued by boat to [[Tenasserim]], a town inhabited by Siamese, Indian Muslims, Hindus and Europeans.{{sfnm|Marcinkowski (2005)||1pp=23–24}} By now news had reached Ayuthaya of the Persians' arrival in Siam; [[François-Timoléon de Choisy]], France's envoy to Siam in 1685, described the behavior of the Persian ambassador in his book ''Journal ou Suite du Voyage de Siam''.{{sfnm|Choisy (1687)||1pp=242–243}} De Choisy claimed the ambassador was guilty of a "thousand impertinences": he told how the Persian complained bitterly about Siamese food, borrowed money from the local governor, and declined to pay the English captain whose ship had brought the embassy from India to to Siam. According to de Choisy, King Narai was angered by these accusations.{{sfnm|Choisy (1687)||1pp=242–243}} A slightly different version of events is revealed in a letter sent to the Persian ambassador by [[Elihu Yale]], the governor of Fort St George. In his letter Yale sympathized for the "unkind entertainment at Syam" which the ambassador had been afforded, adding that "the Honour of your magnifficent King and his noble ambassy [...] deserved much better". Yale then reminded the ambassador of outstanding debts, noting that shipping services provided for the embassy had yet to be paid for.{{sfnm|Anderson (1890)||1pp=251–252}}

The remaining delegates then set out for the Siamese capital, a six-week journey by boat and elephant across the peninsula's jungles that brought them first to [[Phetchaburi]], then [[Suphanburi]], and finally their destination, Ayuthaya.

===Lopburi===

===Ayuthaya===

===The return journey===

==Aftermath==
Shah Sulaiman's embassy to Siam in 1685 has been described as a fiasco: long delays beset the delegates' departure from Bandar Abbas; Ambassador Muhammad Hussein Beg died shortly after arrival in Siam; the delegates, especially the scribe, disliked Siam, its people, culture and food; the return journey was marred by further delays and encounters with pirates.{{sfnm|Alam and Subrahmanyam (2011)||1pp=117–120|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)||2p=25|Marcinkowski (2005)||3pp=30–31}} The embassy achieved nothing and, according to ''Encyclopædia Iranica'', appears to have been "the last diplomatic contact between Iran and Siam until diplomatic ties between Tehran and Bangkok were resumed in the 20th century. Now there are permanent embassies in both countries, the one in Bangkok, established in 1956, being the first between Iran and any Southeast Asian country".{{sfnm|Rota (2010)||1p=75|Marcinkowski (2002)||}}

==Notes and references==
===Notes===
{{notes}}
===Citations===
{{Reflist|colwidth=40em}}
===Sources===
{{Refbegin}}
'''Vajiranana National Library, Bangkok'''
*{{citation
| last = | first =
| title = Records of the Relations between Siam and Foreign Countries in the 17th Century. Volume 3, 1680–1685
| url = http://asi.nic.in/asi_books/10663.pdf
| accessdate =
| year = 1916
| publisher = Vajiranana National Library
| location = Bangkok
| isbn =
| ref={{sfnRef|Records of the Relations between Siam and Foreign Countries in the 17th Century. Volume 3}}
}}
*{{citation
| last = | first =
| title = Records of the Relations between Siam and Foreign Countries in the 17th Century. Volume 4, 1686–1687
| url = http://asi.nic.in/asi_books/10662.pdf
| accessdate =
| year = 1920
| publisher = Vajiranana National Library
| location = Bangkok
| isbn =
| ref={{sfnRef|Records of the Relations between Siam and Foreign Countries in the 17th Century. Volume 4}}
}}

'''PhD thesis'''
*{{citation
| last = Na Pombejra | first = Dhiravat
| title = A Political History of Siam under the Prasatthong Dynasty: 1629–1688
| url = http://ethos.bl.uk/OrderDetails.do?uin= ... hos.296262
| accessdate =
| year = 1984
| publisher = School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London
| location = England
| ref={{sfnRef|Na Pombejra (1984)}}
}}

'''Books'''
*{{citation
| last = Alam | first = Muzaffar
| last2 = Subrahmanyam | first2 = Sanjay
| title = Writing the Mughal World: Studies on Culture and Politics
| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=9mmLOKuzT-IC
| accessdate =
| year = 2011
| publisher = Columbia University Press
| location = New York
| ref={{sfnRef|Alam and Subrahmanyam (2011)}}
| isbn = 8178243091
}}
*{{citation
| last = Anderson | first = John
| title = English Intercourse with Siam in the Seventeenth Century
| url = https://archive.org/details/englishintercou01andegoog
| accessdate =
| year = 1890
| publisher = Trubner & Co.
| location = London
| ref={{sfnRef|Anderson (1890)}}
| isbn =
}}
*{{citation
| last = De Choisy | first = François-Timoléon
| title = Journal ou Suite du Voyage de Siam
| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=NfRaAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA195
| accessdate =
| year = 1687
| publisher = Chez Pierre Mortier
| location = Amsterdam
| ref = {{sfnRef|Choisy (1687)}}
| isbn =
}}
*{{cite book
| author = Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim
| others = Translated by John O'Kane
| title = The Ship of Sulaiman
| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=mSee781x1qcC
| accessdate =
| year = 1972
| publisher = Columbia University Press
| location = New York
| ref={{sfnRef|Ibn Muhammad Ibrahim (1972)}}
| isbn = 023103654X
}}
*{{citation
| last = Kamshad | first = Hassan
| title = Modern Persian Prose Literature
| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=OFrZSGe66xIC&pg=PA7
| accessdate =
| year = 1966
| publisher = Cambridge University Press
| location = UK
| ref={{sfnRef|Kamshad (1966)}}
| isbn = 0936347724
}}
*{{citation
| last = Loubère | first = Simon de la
| title = A New Historical Relation of the Kingdom of Siam. Volume 1
| url = http://seasiavisions.library.cornell.ed ... 4/mode/1up
| accessdate =
| year = 1693
| publisher = Horne
| location = London, England
| ref={{sfnRef|Loubère (1693)}}
| isbn =
}}
*{{citation
| last = Marcinkowski | first = Muhammad Ismail
| title = From Isfahan to Ayutthaya: Contacts between Iran and Siam in the 17th Century
| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=RssPMqruX6kC
| accessdate =
| year = 2005
| publisher = Pustaka Nasional Pte Ltd
| location = Singapore
| ref={{sfnRef|Marcinkowski (2005)}}
| isbn = 9971774917
}}
*{{citation
| last = Meredith-Owens | first = G.M.
| title = Handlist of Persian Manuscripts: 1895-1966
| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=4UfgA ... rahim+rabi
| accessdate =
| year = 1968
| publisher = British Museum
| location = London
| ref={{sfnRef|Meredith-Owens (1968)}}
| isbn = 0714106305
}}
*{{Citation
| last = Rota
| first = Giorgio
| chapter = Diplomatic Relations between the Safavids and Siam in the 17th Century
| pages=71–84
| date = 2010
| editor-last = Kauz
| editor-first = Ralph
| title = Aspects of the Maritime Silk Road: From the Persian Gulf to the East China Sea
| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=YJibpHfnw94C&pg=PA71
| publisher = Harrassowitz Verlag
| location = Weisbaden
| publication-date = 2010
| ref={{sfnRef|Rota (2010)}}
| isbn = 3447061030
}}
*{{citation
| last = Tachard | first = Guy
| title = Voyage de Siam des Peres Jesuites
| url = https://books.google.com/books?id=vZMOAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA308
| accessdate =
| year = 1686
| publisher = Chez Arnould Seneuze et Daniel Horthemels
| location = Paris
| ref={{sfnRef|Tachard (1686)}}
| isbn =
}}
*{{citation
| last = Talboys Wheeler | first = J.
| title = Madras in the Olden Time
| url = http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=u ... up;seq=165
| accessdate =
| year = 1861
| publisher = Grave & Co.
| location = Madras
| ref={{sfnRef|Talboys Wheeler (1861)}}
| isbn =
}}

'''Journals'''
*{{Citation
| last = Bassett | first = D.K.
| year = 1973
| title = John O'Kane: The Ship of Sulaiman
| journal = Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies
| volume = 36 | issue = 3 | pages = 714–716
| url = http://www.jstor.org/stable/613644
| ref={{sfnRef|Bassett (1973)}}
| issn = 0041-977X
}}
*{{Citation
| last = Chularatana | first = Julispong
| year = 2008
| title = The Shi'ite Muslims in Thailand from the Ayutthaya Period to the Present
| journal = Manusya Journal of Humanities
| volume = 16 | issue = 1 | pages = 37–58
| url = http://www.manusya.journals.chula.ac.th ... _37-58.pdf
| ref={{sfnRef|Chularatana (2008)}}
| issn = 0859-9920
}}
*{{Citation
| last = Matthee | first = Rudi
| year = 1994
| title = Administrative Stability and Change in Late 17th Century Iran
| journal = International Journal of Middle East Studies
| volume = 26 | issue = 1 | pages = 77–98
| url = http://www.jstor.org/stable/164053
| ref={{sfnRef|Matthee (1994)}}
| issn = 0020-7438
}}
*{{Citation
| last = Scupin | first = Raymond
| year = 1980
| title = Islam in Thailand before the Bangkok Period
| journal = Journal of the Siam Society
| volume = 68 | issue = 1 | pages = 55–71
| url = http://www.siamese-heritage.org/jsspdf/ ... Period.pdf
| ref={{sfnRef|Scupin (1980)}}
| issn = 0857-7099
}}
*{{Citation
| last = Subrahmanyam | first = Sanjay
| year = 1992
| title = Iranians Abroad: Intra-Asian Elite Migration and Early Modern State Formation
| journal = The Journal of Asian Studies
| volume = 51 | issue = 2 | pages = 340–363
| url = http://www.jstor.org/stable/2058032
| ref={{sfnRef|Subrahmanyam (1992)}}
| issn = 0021-9118
}}
*{{Citation
| last = Wyatt | first = David
| year = 1974
| title = A Persian Mission to Siam in the Reign of King Narai
| journal = Journal of the Siam Society
| volume = 62 | issue = 1 | pages = 151–157
| url = http://www.siamese-heritage.org/jsspdf/ ... gNarai.pdf
| ref={{sfnRef|Wyatt (1974)}}
| issn = 0857-7099
}}

'''Websites'''
*{{cite web
| url=http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/t ... -relations
| title=Thailand–Iran Relations
| last = Marcinkowski
| first = Muhammad Ismail
| year = 2002
| website=Encyclopædia Iranica
| archiveurl=https://web.archive.org/web/20140517070 ... -relations
| archivedate= 17 May 2014
| ref={{sfnRef|Marcinkowski (2002)}}
}}
{{Refend}}

[Bezdomni]

Sagecandor's book-reviews actually are fairly good (at least when they aren't directly commenting on current political controversies). It's when he does almost anything else that there are issues.

+1

RfB

I tried taking a quick look at their penultimate book report (there's a new one since) with an open mind. While this was admittedly difficult, it felt important since the two of you are praising their activist writing. So, sticking to facts:

The first article cited in Cirt's entry was written by Michael Newman in 1997. It consists of a single paragraph containing 237 words. The 14 sentences that SC creates from this article contain a total of 201 words (a reduction of almost 14% !!)

Judge recounts his early formative experiences growing up in suburbs of Washington, D.C. under Catholic school education. . The New York Times characterized Judge's book as a "naive and earnest" work about alcoholism. He describes his early life growing up in relative suburbia in the state of Maryland, close to Washington, D.C.. He recounts attending Catholic educational institutions where drinking alcohol was socially acceptable at a young age. Judge's behavior led to clashes with both the priests and the nuns at his Catholic schools. Judge engages in theft of school supplies from nuns. The author impersonates priests by wearing their attire. He developed a taste for alcohol, and his drink of choice was beer. Judge reflects that he did not realize the addiction and development of alcoholism that he was manifesting at the time, writing, "Only years later would I understand what was happening." He subsequently admits that he had indeed become an alcoholic himself. The New York Times called it a "naive and earnest" book about alcoholism and criticized the juvenile writing style of the book, concluding, "In the end, Wasted does stand as a cautionary tale -- not necessarily for alcoholics, but for anyone who wants to write about alcoholism.

source

(nb: what is in green is cited exclusively to the article, but is not -- in fact -- contained in the article. "Who cares?" you may say... Nobody, really, I suppose, except if we're going to say that this is a model for encyclopedic writing... please do compare the original writing style to the pale imitation)

The second reference -- quoted 26 25 times -- does not appear to exist on the web. If anyone can find it, I'd be interested in seeing by just how many letters SC reduced that article.

Barr, Elizabeth (June 29, 1997), "A Pampered Boy's Life, As Seen Through a Buzz (book review)", The Buffalo News, p. G7 – via NewsBank

Also note the repetition of the verb "recount" in the 2nd and 3rd lines of the lead... etc.

In his second book report, on God & Man at Georgetown, a 14-word résumé from Publisher's Weekly is cited five times (and is characterized as a "review").

God and Man at Georgetown Prep: How I Became a Catholic Despite 20 Years of Catholic Schooling (May, $18.95 paper) by Mark Gauvreau Judge is a humorous, edgy look at his experiences in three prestigious U.S. Catholic schools.

source

• Publisher's Weekly called the book, "a humorous, edgy look at his experiences in three prestigious U.S. Catholic schools."
• God and Man at Georgetown Prep examines the author's trials and travails at three different well-respected Catholic educational institution in the United States.
• Publisher's Weekly called the book "a humorous, edgy look" at the author's Catholic school experiences.
• Judges (sic) book garnered reviews from multiple publications including Publisher's Weekly, [...]
• (infobox)

source: currently #3 at Google.

[Bezdomni]

lol, not too much edit time for complex posts. I should edit in a note-pad first. I screwed up Publishers Weekly in the final addendum.

So I get three <sic>

DYK powa' !

[WhoReallyCares]

please do compare the original writing style to the pale imitation

I did the comparison.

Autistic shithead (who did not write that article)
Judge engages in theft of school supplies from nuns

New York Times
he recounts the obligatory run-ins with nuns (he stole pens!)

For the record, I still consider your ban to be one of the most egregious I've seen in recent years. Far worse than Bril Lyle's, for example.

Even the most gormless dork God ever put breath into can see what lies behind Cirt / Sagecondour. And yet the dogshit that moderates Wikipedia protected him (and the obvious flow of green his account generated).

[MrErnie]

Cirt's Mark Judge related body of work is growing nicely. Today he's added another of Judge's books - linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_Senators[/link]. That's currently 3 of Judge's books with well developed articles. I recently remembered how hard Cirt pushed to have his Fuck book report featured on the main page: linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck:_Wor ... _Liberties[/link] to the article page, linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main ... e_12/15/14[/link] to a nice Main Page discussion that Beeblebrox may remember, and linkhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... encherlite[/link] to a fun TFA talk page read.

Some notable Sagecandor tells appear in the last link, which is a very very very long discussion: The weirdly feigned obsequiousness - "You're absolutely right about the last point, and my apologies..." and the tendency to always write the number in (this format) after he types it out - "Recently two (2) editors..." He's definitely an odd bird.

[Randy from Boise]

But you have to be very careful saying that on-Wiki, even though it may be obviously QUACK FUCKING QUACK true to anybody with a 6th grader's reading comprehension of English and minimal analytical abilities.
RfB

I think you just insulted your old pal Cullen328.

Thank you
Consider this a barnstar, or a certificate suitable for framing, or a kitten, or a warm cuppa tea. Your choice. You saw an historical event in the making and immediately started creating articles about important and notable secondary topics. I am speaking, of course, of Mark Judge and the very impressive Wasted: Tales of a GenX Drunk, which is developing nicely. Well done. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 02:05, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Connecting one wikipedia pseudonym to another wikipedia pseudonym isn't outing, and accounts get blocked as sockpuppets all the time without a sockpuppet investigation.

I sent him a transcription of this thread so he wouldn't sully himself actually having to register, so ignorance is no plausible excuse.

I called Jim out for barnstarring a sock account and he said he did not know anything was amiss with Sagecandor at the time. The barnstar was indeed given before I sent him a transcription of this thread.

RfB

[Dysklyver]

Oh oh oh:

I hope you are reading Wikipediocracy these days, Jim, there is an entire thread on Kavenaugh-related Wikipedia articles which I believe you would find most illuminating. Yeah, that's a hint. Carrite (talk) 12:34, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

I rarely read that site, Tim, because I find the ratio of vile paranoid snark to useful observations to be way too high. But I took a look and entered "Kavanaugh" into the main search box and the forum search box. The only hit I got was mention of an industrial designer named Gere Kavanaugh. Obviously, I am not competent to search that site, so can you please send me a link? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 18:36, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

I always hesitate to give WPO links because of the Crazy Ass Factor at WP, but this thread should be safe enough: LINK. Carrite (talk) 03:03, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Oh, that's not going to be viewable unless you sign in for an account. Sign in for an account. Carrite (talk) 03:06, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

So they have secret content that you need to be a member to view? I am extremely uncomfortable with that. I do not want any kooks threatening to kill my granddaughter, Carrite. I trust you 100% but not a lot of those folks. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:02, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Actually, it's the exact opposite of what you think — it's an honorable section for controversial content stashed away from the Google search engine. Easily viewable, except you have to be registered to view it; thus the bots are kept out. I can certify that nothing bad will come of you by registering there, the powers that be are all upstanding folks. Carrite (talk) 04:13, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

I will take a look if they let me into their private clubhouse, but I am highly skeptical of that entire venture, Tim. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:49, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Quick! Increase the vile paranoid snark ratio! An administrator who literally just said he can't use a search engine is going to read the thread!

Although that's unfair, phpBB's search engine is old-fashioned and harder to use than say Google, especially for old grandparents.

I think this site may have an image problem though.

And, by the way, WPO approved my registration less than an hour ago. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 04:36, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

[Cla68]

If Kavanaugh is not confirmed to SCOTUS, expect the interest in his BLP to die out almost immediately. I noticed that happened with Al Franken's BLP. When he was first accused of sexual assault, editors were all over it either trying to highlight it or minimize/qualify it. Once he resigned, the edit wars evaporated instantly.

[Kumioko]

Cullen is so full of shit it's leaking out his ears onto the ground. Wikipedia has far more secret forums than we do. Apparently Cullen has never been to IRC! or the Mailing lists! or the Secret wiki's, or OTRS! Etc. All of those are locked to "members" only.

As for fearing things, he has already posted who he is in real life so we can't out him, he's retired so no one is going to get him fired, etc. Wikipedia is a far, far, far more toxic place than this forum. What it's really about is image. if Cullen comes here, in his eyes, he gives credibility to the site and he helps give a voice to the banned editors who are here including me, and he despises me. If I were on fire I doubt he would piss in the flames. All he is doing is making excuses.

Cullen, like many Wikipediots, are cowards. They won't engage people in discussion unless they can manipulate and control the narrative. He can't block anyone here or intimidate them or ignore them and his little whimpy supporters can't either so he won't come here and engage at all.

[Cla68]

Apparently someone from a Capital Hill IP was busy late yesterday adding home addresses and phone numbers for Republican Senators in Wikipedia. This has happened before on Wikipedia. I remember that after the Virginia Tech shooting, someone added the perpetrator's parents' home address to the article.

What is disturbing about it is that when someone does this, it means that they're inviting a mob attack (or a lone radical like the guy who tried to massacre the Republican baseball team) on the person(s) in question. Mob attacks are a form of political or community violence and are supposed to be outside the norm of modern discourse and law and order. I guess it isn't Wikipedia's fault that obsessed people sometimes try to use it to formulate mob action?

[Kumioko]

Apparently someone from a Capital Hill IP was busy late yesterday adding home addresses and phone numbers for Republican Senators in Wikipedia. This has happened before on Wikipedia. I remember that after the Virginia Tech shooting, someone added the perpetrator's parents' home address to the article.

What is disturbing about it is that when someone does this, it means that they're inviting a mob attack (or a lone radical like the guy who tried to massacre the Republican baseball team) on the person(s) in question. Mob attacks are a form of political or community violence and are supposed to be outside the norm of modern discourse and law and order. I guess it isn't Wikipedia's fault that obsessed people sometimes try to use it to formulate mob action?

You are correct, it's even worse when it's someone from the inside. As you said it was a Capital hill IP, which means a staffer or close associate and someone who had access to personal and probably unreported, information.

But the incompetents on Wikipedia and the WMF will probably just blame it on some banned editor, troll, vandal, etc. so they can pretend it never happened and don't have to actually do anything about it.

[Poetlister]

This is a Breitbart article and the links in it don't seem to work.

[Jim]

But the incompetents on Wikipedia and the WMF will probably just blame it on some banned editor, troll, vandal, etc. so they can pretend it never happened and don't have to actually do anything about it.

What would you do about it, if you were "king for a day", Kumi? I'm genuinely interested because it's a real problem when things like this happen, and you're correct about WMF incompetence/intransigence in general, and that nothing is ever successfully done to solve it.

But what's the answer? 'Range blocking' 'Capitol Hill' IP addresses from editing has been rightly ridiculed, and as far as I can see it's impossible to know which real person is responsible. Requiring accounts to edit, which I support, doesn't really help to solve anything here unless you also require email addresses confirmed to real identities, and, nice though that might be, I really don't see it happening. Putting all BLPs under 'pending changes' might limit the visibility of this stuff - but lots of people would still see it. Protecting the articles wouldn't prevent it being posted on the talk page. Not having these BLPs at all might just shift the target to other articles... (cont. p. 94)

The 'encyclopedia anyone can edit' is obviously not really true - but even to the extent that it is true it's not necessarily a virtue, as we see here.

[Midsize Jake]

What is disturbing about it is that when someone does this, it means that they're inviting a mob attack (or a lone radical like the guy who tried to massacre the Republican baseball team) on the person(s) in question. Mob attacks are a form of political or community violence...

As anyone who's honest will tell you, the purpose of "doxxing" someone is not to "invite a mob attack," it's an expression of anger meant to inspire fear and anxiety on the part of the person whose address (or whatever) is being published. It doesn't take a "mob" to harm or even kill someone. One person can do that all by herself.

We are not idiots, and we understand that there is a huge difference between publishing the address of a Senator or Congressman vs. publishing the address of a rape victim or some other innocent who's making inconvenient accusations against someone you think is somehow key to maintaining your power base. The Senator or Congressman can handle it easily, trust me. The rape victim, ehh, not so much.

[Kumioko]

But the incompetents on Wikipedia and the WMF will probably just blame it on some banned editor, troll, vandal, etc. so they can pretend it never happened and don't have to actually do anything about it.

What would you do about it, if you were "king for a day", Kumi? I'm genuinely interested because it's a real problem when things like this happen, and you're correct about WMF incompetence/intransigence in general, and that nothing is ever successfully done to solve it.

But what's the answer? 'Range blocking' 'Capitol Hill' IP addresses from editing has been rightly ridiculed, and as far as I can see it's impossible to know which real person is responsible. Requiring accounts to edit, which I support, doesn't really help to solve anything here unless you also require email addresses confirmed to real identities, and, nice though that might be, I really don't see it happening. Putting all BLPs under 'pending changes' might limit the visibility of this stuff - but lots of people would still see it. Protecting the articles wouldn't prevent it being posted on the talk page. Not having these BLPs at all might just shift the target to other articles... (cont. p. 94)

The 'encyclopedia anyone can edit' is obviously not really true - but even to the extent that it is true it's not necessarily a virtue, as we see here.

Well I think it depends on the situation but I can tell you I do not beleive IP range blocks are particularly effective. When Wikipedia started it was one of the only tools in the toolbox, but now that we have Cluebot, edit filters, pending changes, black and white lists and other things in place, a lot of these blocks are simply not needed. I also agree and have stated such on other discussions that requiring an account and an email address or allowing (but not requiring) people to login and associate their facebook or google accounts with their account here would help greatly reduce socking. Also adding the email and MAC address to the CU tool and better targeting blocking capabilities (which I hear are coming).

[Randy from Boise]

IP editing should not be allowed. Period. Full stop.

Accounts should have to bring some skin to the game, at a minimum a single, unique, verifiable email address. They get blocked, that email address is blocked from further accounts.

Any reasonable model of Wikipedia would be based on this. But instead we chant the false idiocy that "anyone can edit," allow poison pen editing by IPs, and spend a quarter of our time and energy chasing socks and fixing vandalism...

Stupid.

RfB

[Poetlister]

Accounts should have to bring some skin to the game, at a minimum a single, unique, verifiable email address. They get blocked, that email address is blocked from further accounts.

That would certainly help, but of course it's easy enough to get as many hotmail and gmail accounts as you like.

[tarantino]

And an internet lynch mob is forming to go after one person who's used one of the IP addresses before. There are probably hundreds of people that have used 143.231.249.136 (T-C-L) and 143.231.249.130 (T-C-L) to access the internet.

[collect]

And an internet lynch mob is forming to go after one person who's used one of the IP addresses before. There are probably hundreds of people that have used 143.231.249.136 (T-C-L) and 143.231.249.130 (T-C-L) to access the internet.

likely very few others used that address in the time frame given, though.

[Dysklyver]

These senators had several phone numbers and multiple address, I am sure there is some fat cat point in there somewhere.

Hatch for example was doxed with exposure of:

A Vermont address, valued in the region of $900,000 by an online valuation site.
A Salt Lake City address, valued at $640,000.

A senate email address, personalised, but with several exposed it was remarkably easy to decipher their addressing format, so in theory I could email any senator now.

Four phone numbers, labelled as; "H", "O", "SH", and "C" respectively.

[Poetlister]

A Vermont address, valued in the region of $900,000 by an online valuation site.
A Salt Lake City address, valued at $640,000.

Is that a lot? A 3-bed semi in a respectable part of London is likely to be more than $640,000.

[Bezdomni]

Why is this thread hidden? Readers would think nobody WPO isn't covering the story... all because of Cirt.

Mr. Ernie was very kind to protect Cirt from the careening out of control Google bus.

[tarantino]

And an internet lynch mob is forming to go after one person who's used one of the IP addresses before. There are probably hundreds of people that have used 143.231.249.136 (T-C-L) and 143.231.249.130 (T-C-L) to access the internet.

likely very few others used that address in the time frame given, though.

Congressman Steve Cohen used 143.231.249.130 to answer a survey in June. It's possible the wifi there goes through that IP. A couple of edits from that IP are tagged as mobile, which I think indicates a cell phone.

Why is this thread hidden? Readers would think nobody WPO isn't covering the story... all because of Cirt.

Mr. Ernie was very kind to protect Cirt from the careening out of control Google bus.

Okay, I moved it to a googleable forum.

[Beeblebrox]

A Vermont address, valued in the region of $900,000 by an online valuation site.
A Salt Lake City address, valued at $640,000.

Is that a lot? A 3-bed semi in a respectable part of London is likely to be more than $640,000.

Theone house, no, not really. One would guess it’s his “lip service” house to allow him to continue to claim to be a resident of Utah and therefore qualified to serve as it’s senator. And as a senator he would also have a home of some sort in Washington DC and then on top of that a nearly million dollar home in Vermont for some reason.

[Midsize Jake]

...and then on top of that a nearly million dollar home in Vermont for some reason.

Hatch is a Mormon, and Sharon, VT is the birthplace of LDS founder Joseph Smith. So, if I had to guess, not knowing the actual address in question, I'd say it might have something to do with this - though the project has since been called off (for now?) due to historic preservation issues.

[MrErnie]

It seems the Sage saga is over - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... tions/Cirt.

Cirt was able to pump out articles for all of Mark Judge's books and create DYK hooks about them. It's interesting how completely obvious it was that Sagecandor was Cirt, but none of the admins who read this site or saw the similarities for themselves did anything.

[Cla68]

What is disturbing about it is that when someone does this, it means that they're inviting a mob attack (or a lone radical like the guy who tried to massacre the Republican baseball team) on the person(s) in question. Mob attacks are a form of political or community violence...

As anyone who's honest will tell you, the purpose of "doxxing" someone is not to "invite a mob attack," it's an expression of anger meant to inspire fear and anxiety on the part of the person whose address (or whatever) is being published. It doesn't take a "mob" to harm or even kill someone. One person can do that all by herself.

It's all part of the same community political violence that resulted in the past of people being tarred & feathered and dragged out of town behind a horse on a rail. A similar situation that this reminds me of was about 25 years ago when I lived in Mississippi. The state government passed legislation allowing concealed carry in the state. The Jackson newspaper Clarion-Ledger, which had opposed the legislation, starting posting the names and addresses of everyone in the Jackson area who applied for a concealed carry license. They kept doing it until, from I heard, someone's lawyer called them up and reminded them that homes with guns are actually more likely to be burglarized because guns have higher resale value on the black market, and therefore they were setting themselves up for a huge lawsuit if one of the people who they doxed was robbed or burglarized.

I'm kind of surprised that the newspaper stopped publishing the names, because it was obvious that the whole point of it was to try to scare people into not getting a concealed carry permit. But, I guess the fear of being bankrupted by a lawsuit was enough for them to put their anti-2A ideology aside on that issue.

[WhoReallyCares]

Exciting updates
I put three articles onto Wikipedia. All were written in text files. One was missing a paragraph because I couldn't be bothered to finish it; the other two navigated their way through the FAC process [which is actually a fucking joke].

I said earlier that I didn't believe SageCandyBar also wrote his articles in text files. Why would he? I did because I didn't know what a sandbox was, but Sage did know.

Anyway, I had a PM from a venerable gentleman who -- like me -- does use text files to create articles. I can't possibly reveal his name, but I can say he's the kind of good-hearted soul who might prefer Kohser food to Kosher food. Then again, maybe he enjoys both in equal measure.

The gentleman describes himself as "Wikpedia's best paid editor" and states emphatically that he's a text-file afficionado. I guess he does things this way in order to remain below the radar.

[Eric Corbett]

Exciting updates
I put three articles onto Wikipedia. All were written in text files. One was missing a paragraph because I couldn't be bothered to finish it; the other two navigated their way through the FAC process [which is actually a fucking joke].

I said earlier that I didn't believe SageCandyBar also wrote his articles in text files. Why would he? I did because I didn't know what a sandbox was, but Sage did know.

Anyway, I had a PM from a venerable gentleman who -- like me -- does use text files to create articles. I can't possibly reveal his name, but I can say he's the kind of good-hearted soul who might prefer Kohser food to Kosher food. Then again, maybe he enjoys both in equal measure.

The gentleman describes himself as "Wikpedia's best paid editor" and states emphatically that he's a text-file afficionado. I guess he does things this way in order to remain below the radar.

What's the issue here? I've sometimes used MS Word to write the beginnings of an article before importing it to Wikipedia, and I don't see anything wrong with using a text editor to do the same. In fact it might even be preferable given the ancient wiki markup language.

I have seen sanctimonious clowns including Slim Virgin complaining about articles being written too quickly before being taken to a review process though, as that doesn't give her sufficient time to order all the sources from her library, read and absorb them. But who cares what Slim Virgin thinks about anything?

[Kumioko]

I do this a lot myself. Almost always when I am starting an article I'll build the base of it offline before I create it on wiki.

[Eric Corbett]

I watched that Black Friday (1910) FAC unravelling with mounting horror.