Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Discussion of financial interests of Wikimedia and companies who contribute, or simply spend money on a Wikipedia presence.
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Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Mancunium » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:05 pm

PR Company Says It Was Demonized By The World's Biggest Internet Encyclopedia
Business Insider, 25 January 2014 link
A few months ago, Wikipedia's parent entity, The Wikimedia Foundation, set about "condemning the black hat practice of paid advocacy editing and sockpuppeting on Wikipedia," it said in a press release. [...] As part of Wikimedia's crackdown, it sent a cease-and-desist letter to a company called Wiki-PR. The Wiki-PR website advertises itself like this: "Let the largest Wikipedia consulting firm help you claim your top spot in Google search results." Wiki-PR CEO Jordan French tells Business Insider that he was wrongly vilified by the cease-and-desist letter. He says that not all paid editing is a violation of Wikipedia's policies and that his company helps people who want to contribute to Wikipedia, or to fix wrong information published about them on the site, but don't have the time or expertise to navigate Wikipedia's complex editing structure. Business Insider talked with French about the situation and heard his side of the story. Here's an edited transcript:

BI: What happened between the Wikimedia Foundation and Wiki-PR?

There was an investigation. They made a bunch of errors and confused us with someone else, largely. They hired a law firm, Cooley, to send us a cease-and-desist letter and issued a press release.

BI: What do you mean by errors?

The issue of sockpuppeting, there’s no evidence they could present [that we were doing that] so they called it behavioral. Then they called it meatpuppeting. We’ve been painted like we’re some kind of evil entity out there scrubbing truths from Wikipedia that are bad about people and companies. What are we actually doing? We’re starting with legally actional libel. People call us. They’re upset. They’re crying. They're pissed. They typically have a lot of money. They are one hair trigger away from suing the Wikimedia Foundation and/or trying to subpoena to find out who the editors are who smeared them, whether it is an anonymous IP [address], which is almost always the case, or an actual editor.

BI: You are a lawyer, correct?

I’m licensed in New York and Massachusetts. I worked for a few years as a federal investigator. I also have the background of an IP attorney.

BI: Even though you hired people to edit Wikipedia pages, these were not fake accounts? They used actual accounts and email addresses? In what way was Wikipedia claiming this was a violation?

I don’t know. I’ve read their terms of service over and over again. I see nothing about sockpuppets in there. I see nothing about paid editing. I see nothing about any of the terms used in the cease-and-desist letter. [Editor's note: The closest item in the Terms of Use discussing a violation is this: “Attempting to impersonate another user or individual, misrepresenting your affiliation with any individual or entity, or using the username of another user with the intent to deceive.”]

BI: In the Wikimedia Foundation press release, it said that it banned about 300 sockpuppet accounts. How many people were working for you?

Probably in total something like 45.

BI: To your knowledge these 45 people didn’t have multiple accounts?

No. They wouldn’t. Typically they are people who have edited Wikipedia before. They know the rules. You don’t want to get total amateurs in there because they are going to mess it up, so what good is that?

BI: Since the cease-and-desist letter, is Wiki-PR still in business?

Of course. As long as there’s libel on Wikipedia, we’ll [have work]. We’re not touching Wikipedia. There’s no reason to directly edit. We’re helping people with other ways to do it. [We are telling them things like] here are the editors and other people you should talk to solve whatever the problem is. Consulting has always been a huge part of our business.

BI: What is it that you do for people if you are no longer actually editing Wikipedia pages themselves?

We don’t offer legal advice. But our theory is that its better to engage the community and get the facts on the page. And there are a lot of ways to do that. You don’t have to directly edit them on there. Typically, a client contacts us after they’ve tried some self-help solution and usually that means they get into a "reverting" war with some who-knows editor, or some person that doesn't like them. We’re basically consulting with clients on how to rectify situations. We guide them through the rules that will matter, the rules that will [keep changes from being] revoked. These things can sometimes take months.
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:15 pm

You don’t want to get total amateurs in there because they are going to mess it up, so what good is that?
Y'know, this is precisely the question we've been trying to answer for nearly ten years now. And we're still no closer, apparently.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Cedric » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:19 pm

BI: Even though you hired people to edit Wikipedia pages, these were not fake accounts? They used actual accounts and email addresses? In what way was Wikipedia claiming this was a violation?

I don’t know. I’ve read their terms of service over and over again. I see nothing about sockpuppets in there. I see nothing about paid editing. I see nothing about any of the terms used in the cease-and-desist letter. [Editor's note: The closest item in the Terms of Use discussing a violation is this: “Attempting to impersonate another user or individual, misrepresenting your affiliation with any individual or entity, or using the username of another user with the intent to deceive.”]
Interesting that a number of members here made the very same point when this "scandal" came to light. But then, their CEO is a lawyer; it would have been a matter of no difficulty for him to see through the Foundation's puffery.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:25 am

Business Insider: What happened between the Wikimedia Foundation and Wiki-PR?

There was an investigation. They made a bunch of errors and confused us with someone else, largely. They hired a law firm, Cooley, to send us a cease-and-desist letter and issued a press release.
As for confusing Wiki-PR with other people, see also this earlier report in the International Business Times: Wikipedia Sends Paid Editors Cease-And-Desist: Sockpuppet Account Morning277, Not Wiki-PR. (Morning277 aka Mike Wood has an account here and pointed this out months ago.)

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by thekohser » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:00 am

HRIP7 wrote:
Business Insider: What happened between the Wikimedia Foundation and Wiki-PR?

There was an investigation. They made a bunch of errors and confused us with someone else, largely. They hired a law firm, Cooley, to send us a cease-and-desist letter and issued a press release.
As for confusing Wiki-PR with other people, see also this earlier report in the International Business Times: Wikipedia Sends Paid Editors Cease-And-Desist: Sockpuppet Account Morning277, Not Wiki-PR. (Morning277 aka Mike Wood has an account here and pointed this out months ago.)
Also note that Wikipedia editors are not permitted to add that story to the Wikipedia article about Wiki-PR's troubles.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:53 am

thekohser wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:
Business Insider: What happened between the Wikimedia Foundation and Wiki-PR?

There was an investigation. They made a bunch of errors and confused us with someone else, largely. They hired a law firm, Cooley, to send us a cease-and-desist letter and issued a press release.
As for confusing Wiki-PR with other people, see also this earlier report in the International Business Times: Wikipedia Sends Paid Editors Cease-And-Desist: Sockpuppet Account Morning277, Not Wiki-PR. (Morning277 aka Mike Wood has an account here and pointed this out months ago.)
Also note that Wikipedia editors are not permitted to add that story to the Wikipedia article about Wiki-PR's troubles.
Odd. It's a reliable source. I've had another go.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by thekohser » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:15 pm

HRIP7 wrote:Odd. It's a reliable source. I've had another go.
Keep an eye on it -- Smallbones will be along shortly to challenge your edits.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:26 pm

thekohser wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:Odd. It's a reliable source. I've had another go.
Keep an eye on it -- Smallbones will be along shortly to challenge your edits.
What an idiot. :)

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Vigilant » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:57 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
thekohser wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:Odd. It's a reliable source. I've had another go.
Keep an eye on it -- Smallbones will be along shortly to challenge your edits.
What an idiot. :)
Smallbones is well named.
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by eppur si muove » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:15 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
Business Insider: What happened between the Wikimedia Foundation and Wiki-PR?

There was an investigation. They made a bunch of errors and confused us with someone else, largely. They hired a law firm, Cooley, to send us a cease-and-desist letter and issued a press release.
As for confusing Wiki-PR with other people, see also this earlier report in the International Business Times: Wikipedia Sends Paid Editors Cease-And-Desist: Sockpuppet Account Morning277, Not Wiki-PR. (Morning277 aka Mike Wood has an account here and pointed this out months ago.)
What an awful website. While I was trying to scroll down to look sat the article, four different videos started in addition to the usual shit asking me to subscribe to their email alert service. How is anyone with a slow connection or old machine supposed to cope?

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by EricBarbour » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:28 pm

For anyone else looking in, they are talking about Wiki-PR editing of Wikipedia (T-H-L).

One of the meanest little hit-pieces Wikipedia has ever created, in the same vein as the past biographies of Daniel Brandt and Greg. Created in October by idiot fanboy Kevin Rutherford, and fought over since then by an assorted bag of WP insiders (who, of course, want to preserve and expand it) and would-be reformers. And sockpuppets thereof. It's now a major battleground for anti/pro paid editing. If Wikipedia were not an asylum for trolls and crazy bastards, this crap article would not exist, or at most it would still be called simply "Wiki-PR" -- as it was originally.

Just btw, Smallbones is turning out to be one of Wikipedia's worst "content writers". I can guarantee he's hanging out on IRC and butt-licking, and will be nominated for RFA soon.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Tippi Hadron » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:18 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
thekohser wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:Odd. It's a reliable source. I've had another go.
Keep an eye on it -- Smallbones will be along shortly to challenge your edits.
What an idiot. :)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... lbones.png

Image

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:26 pm

EricBarbour wrote:For anyone else looking in, they are talking about Wiki-PR editing of Wikipedia (T-H-L).

One of the meanest little hit-pieces Wikipedia has ever created, in the same vein as the past biographies of Daniel Brandt and Greg. Created in October by idiot fanboy Kevin Rutherford, and fought over since then by an assorted bag of WP insiders (who, of course, want to preserve and expand it) and would-be reformers. And sockpuppets thereof. It's now a major battleground for anti/pro paid editing. If Wikipedia were not an asylum for trolls and crazy bastards, this crap article would not exist, or at most it would still be called simply "Wiki-PR" -- as it was originally.

Just btw, Smallbones is turning out to be one of Wikipedia's worst "content writers". I can guarantee he's hanging out on IRC and butt-licking, and will be nominated for RFA soon.
From the last time I looked at the article, a few hours ago, I gained the impression that Smallbones thinks footnotes are there to lend weight to his own thoughts, rather than as an indication to the reader that there is some sort of vague correspondence between what is written in Wikipedia and what the cited source says. He doesn't seem to be too familiar with that latter concept.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:31 pm

Tippi Hadron wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:
thekohser wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:Odd. It's a reliable source. I've had another go.
Keep an eye on it -- Smallbones will be along shortly to challenge your edits.
What an idiot. :)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... lbones.png

Image
Did you have to do that? I had hoped he was a teenager. :facepalm:

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Tippi Hadron » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:59 pm

HRIP7 wrote:Did you have to do that? I had hoped he was a teenager. :facepalm:
"Smallbones" aka Peter Ekman (pdekman@gmail.com) may not be a teenager, but he does seem short of a bob or two, if this grant application is anything to go by:
Full project name
Congressional Cemetery QRpedia Project

Budget breakdown
$298 - for 62 anodized steel “Garden Markers” used to display the QR codes in a dignified manner next to the graves and cenotaphs.
$84 – for printing and laminating the QR codes (in general 10 sheets each with 6 codes, printed, laminated, and cut at about $7 per sheet, with 2 sheets mostly spoiled)
$30 - expected additional printing costs
for a total of $412.
A grant for $412? This man is either incredibly stingy or he has no job. Also a fan of QR codes. "Andy" Mabbett must be so proud.

Ah, but Mr. Ekman knows people who know people:
Fortunately, my contact at the Cemetery, Program Director Rebecca Boggs Roberts, is a well-known journalist (see e.g. http://www.culturaltourismdc.org/blog/i ... l-cemetery ), the daughter of the legendary Cokie Roberts of National Public Radio, and the grand-daughter of Congressional leader Wade Boggs. She is a true Washington insider who knows her way around the world of journalism. She has agreed to review my press releases and offer a few tips.
Image
"Grave of Representative Tom Lantos. Note the QR code."

Duly noted. We are ... undone. Clearly, not even the dead are safe from diehard Wikipedians.
Last edited by Tippi Hadron on Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Tippi Hadron » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:24 am


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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:38 am

Tippi Hadron wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:Did you have to do that? I had hoped he was a teenager. :facepalm:
"Smallbones" aka Peter Ekman (pdekman@gmail.com) may not be a teenager, but he does seem short of a bob or two, if this grant application is anything to go by:
Full project name
Congressional Cemetery QRpedia Project

Budget breakdown
$298 - for 62 anodized steel “Garden Markers” used to display the QR codes in a dignified manner next to the graves and cenotaphs.
$84 – for printing and laminating the QR codes (in general 10 sheets each with 6 codes, printed, laminated, and cut at about $7 per sheet, with 2 sheets mostly spoiled)
$30 - expected additional printing costs
for a total of $412.
A grant for $412? This man is either incredibly stingy or he has no job. Also a fan of QR codes. "Andy" Mabbett must be so proud.

Ah, but Mr. Ekman knows people who know people:
Fortunately, my contact at the Cemetery, Program Director Rebecca Boggs Roberts, is a well-known journalist (see e.g. http://www.culturaltourismdc.org/blog/i ... l-cemetery ), the daughter of the legendary Cokie Roberts of National Public Radio, and the grand-daughter of Congressional leader Wade Boggs. She is a true Washington insider who knows her way around the world of journalism. She has agreed to review my press releases and offer a few tips.
Image
"Grave of Representative Tom Lantos. Note the QR code."

Duly noted. We are ... undone. Clearly, not even the dead are safe from diehard Wikipedians.
Excellent. :) Well, good to know that Wikipedia donations are always spent in such a way as to benefit the maximum possible number of readers.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:45 am

Tippi Hadron wrote:I'll just leave this here https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:PEG/Table
On a rainy afternoon, we should really go through the list of grants marked as approved there, and make a table of how much of this money was actually used to improve Wikipedia, or any other Wikimedia project.

Things like $1,250 for a donations-funded trip to Vancouver, so Wikimedia Canada board members could meet in person for the first time. Skype just ain't the same, eh?

$120,000 for a conference in Italy.

$20,000 for a project designed to study "Flow Funding", as an optimised way of distributing all the dosh.
a project was discussed on Meta to test an innovative model of fund allocation called “Flow Funding”, where individuals are entrusted with decision-making power to fund initiatives aligned with the organization’s strategic goals.
That sounds marvellous, doesn't it? Spending $20,000 of donations to find out how better to distribute donations?

What was it again Wikimedia Foundation Executive Director Sue Gardner said a few months ago?
Sue Gardner wrote:I believe the FDC process, dominated by fund-seekers, does not as currently constructed offer sufficient protection against log-rolling, self-dealing, and other corrupt practices. I had hoped that this risk would be offset by the presence on the FDC of independent non-affiliated members, but thus far the evidence suggests their number will be small and may diminish over time, and I do not believe it's reasonable to expect a minority of independent members to act as the only failsafe mechanism against corruption. I also note with concern the point made by the FDC Advisory Group, that the community members who are paying the closest attention to the process are applicants, and that community involvement in scrutinizing proposals is otherwise low.
Meanwhile, journalists are looking at the donations banner and worrying that Wikipedia is about to fold for lack of money ...

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:15 am

And did we tell you the name of the game, boy?
We call it Riding the Gravy Train.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by EricBarbour » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:33 am

HRIP7 wrote:Meanwhile, journalists are looking at the donations banner and worrying that Wikipedia is about to fold for lack of money ...
Perhaps we should try to directly shame the next working journalist who writes something of that nature?

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:56 am

Thomas Halleck's article in the International Business Times, pointing out that Morning277 is Mike Wood, who says he is entirely unrelated to Wiki-PR, has now been deleted three times from Wiki-PR editing of Wikipedia (T-H-L). Poof! Just gone. Here are the diffs:

Revert by Smallbones (T-C-L), edit summary: "Revert to pre-annon, that's not a fair summary of the IBT article"

Revert by Smallbones (T-C-L), edit summary: "kohs not a reliable source, IBT summary was very biased"

Revert by Herostratus (T-C-L), edit summary: "Reverted to revision 592429175 by Jinkinson: I think it was better before. 15 revisions rolled back per WP:BRD, talk thread opened, take to talk page please, see WP:BRD. (TW)"

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Jim » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:12 pm

HRIP7 wrote:Thomas Halleck's article in the International Business Times, pointing out that Morning277 is Mike Wood, who says he is entirely unrelated to Wiki-PR, has now been deleted three times from Wiki-PR editing of Wikipedia (T-H-L). Poof! Just gone. Here are the diffs:

Revert by Smallbones (T-C-L), edit summary: "Revert to pre-annon, that's not a fair summary of the IBT article"

Revert by Smallbones (T-C-L), edit summary: "kohs not a reliable source, IBT summary was very biased"

Revert by Herostratus (T-C-L), edit summary: "Reverted to revision 592429175 by Jinkinson: I think it was better before. 15 revisions rolled back per WP:BRD, talk thread opened, take to talk page please, see WP:BRD. (TW)"
Yeah, well that's because you are an enemy from a BADSITE:
Herostratus wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... _additions

It's frustrating because the editor making the additions,User:Jayen466, is a WO mod and I gather doesn't much like the Wikipedia or, I guess, the ideas behind it.
...
It would be a kindness and show character if User:Jayen466 and other WO regular with the opposite view would follow a commensurate hands-off policy, I think.
"Hands-off" in his case being to revert it to the version he prefers and tell everyone it should then be left alone...

Gotta love that binary thinking... :dalek:

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by thekohser » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:06 pm

It is this same mentality of "we get to control Wikipedia, you don't" that explains why there is no article about Carolyn Doran on Wikipedia. Some of the most vocal critics of paid manipulation of Wikipedia are themselves the most active agents of non-paid manipulation of Wikipedia.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:22 pm

thekohser wrote:It is this same mentality of "we get to control Wikipedia, you don't" that explains why there is no article about Carolyn Doran on Wikipedia. Some of the most vocal critics of paid manipulation of Wikipedia are themselves the most active agents of non-paid manipulation of Wikipedia.
What did she do, in one sentence or less?

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:24 pm

Jim wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:Thomas Halleck's article in the International Business Times, pointing out that Morning277 is Mike Wood, who says he is entirely unrelated to Wiki-PR, has now been deleted three times from Wiki-PR editing of Wikipedia (T-H-L). Poof! Just gone. Here are the diffs:

Revert by Smallbones (T-C-L), edit summary: "Revert to pre-annon, that's not a fair summary of the IBT article"

Revert by Smallbones (T-C-L), edit summary: "kohs not a reliable source, IBT summary was very biased"

Revert by Herostratus (T-C-L), edit summary: "Reverted to revision 592429175 by Jinkinson: I think it was better before. 15 revisions rolled back per WP:BRD, talk thread opened, take to talk page please, see WP:BRD. (TW)"
Yeah, well that's because you are an enemy from a BADSITE:
Herostratus wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... _additions

It's frustrating because the editor making the additions,User:Jayen466, is a WO mod and I gather doesn't much like the Wikipedia or, I guess, the ideas behind it.
...
It would be a kindness and show character if User:Jayen466 and other WO regular with the opposite view would follow a commensurate hands-off policy, I think.
"Hands-off" in his case being to revert it to the version he prefers and tell everyone it should then be left alone...

Gotta love that binary thinking... :dalek:
It's his view or no one's in that article. For his view read his wordy OR on the topic. Or kill yourself first, more pleasant.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:27 pm

HRIP7 wrote:

Image
"Grave of Representative Tom Lantos. Note the QR code."

Excellent. :) Well, good to know that Wikipedia donations are always spent in such a way as to benefit the maximum possible number of readers.
He may have dozens of relatives. His constituents are lining up.

Don't be hating.

:blink:

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by thekohser » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:57 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:
thekohser wrote:It is this same mentality of "we get to control Wikipedia, you don't" that explains why there is no article about Carolyn Doran on Wikipedia. Some of the most vocal critics of paid manipulation of Wikipedia are themselves the most active agents of non-paid manipulation of Wikipedia.
What did she do, in one sentence or less?
Despite having shot in the chest the father of her child, racked up two convictions for driving under the influence, two convictions of check fraud and petty larceny, and one conviction for hit-and-run with fatality, the Wikimedia Foundation hired her and elevated her to the post of Chief Operating Officer, overseeing the world's sixth most popular website.

(Since you didn't give me another sentence, I won't mention that she chalked up two more convictions for DUI, after the WMF hired her.)
Last edited by thekohser on Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Cedric » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:07 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:
thekohser wrote:It is this same mentality of "we get to control Wikipedia, you don't" that explains why there is no article about Carolyn Doran on Wikipedia. Some of the most vocal critics of paid manipulation of Wikipedia are themselves the most active agents of non-paid manipulation of Wikipedia.
What did she do, in one sentence or less?
More a matter of what didn't she do: at least four DUIs, two check deceptions, a hit-and-run causing death, an unlawful wounding (shot boyfriend in the chest), and leaving the US in violation of her parole.

Plus, this amusing quote from Mike "Sgt. Schultz" Godwin after Doran's secret firing/resignation/whatever from the WMF after one of her many arrests:
As far as I'm concerned, I have no direct knowledge of [her criminal record] yet...We have, in our records, no evidence of any such thing.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:55 pm

Why does smallboner remind me of Ike Clanton?
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:30 pm

thekohser wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:
thekohser wrote:It is this same mentality of "we get to control Wikipedia, you don't" that explains why there is no article about Carolyn Doran on Wikipedia. Some of the most vocal critics of paid manipulation of Wikipedia are themselves the most active agents of non-paid manipulation of Wikipedia.
What did she do, in one sentence or less?
Despite having shot in the chest the father of her child, racked up two convictions for driving under the influence, two convictions of check fraud and petty larceny, and one conviction for hit-and-run with fatality, the Wikimedia Foundation hired her and elevated her to the post of Chief Operating Officer, overseeing the world's sixth most popular website.

(Since you didn't give me another sentence, I won't mention that she chalked up two more convictions for DUI, after the WMF hired her.)
Here's hoping she had no access to funds!

:blink:

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by thekohser » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:45 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:Here's hoping she had no access to funds!

:blink:
The preponderance of the evidence indicates that she used the WMF credit card to post her $5,250 bail bond when she was arrested while in the employ of the WMF. I would say she most certainly had access to funds. But, other than that quick misuse of the WMF credit card, an audit determined that there was no other improper handling of WMF cash by Ms. Doran during her tenure with the non-profit.
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by dogbiscuit » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:45 pm

enwikibadscience wrote:
Here's hoping she had no access to funds!

:blink:
You can hope, but I believe that her final demise at WMF was due to using their company credit card to pay her bail.
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:46 pm

thekohser wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:Here's hoping she had no access to funds!

:blink:
The preponderance of the evidence indicates that she used the WMF credit card to post her $5,250 bail bond when she was arrested while in the employ of the WMF. I would say she most certainly had access to funds. But, other than that quick misuse of the WMF credit card, an audit determined that there was no other improper handling of WMF cash by Ms. Doran during her tenure with the non-profit.
I am sure their auditors are all the most competent they could hire....

:blink:

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:47 pm

dogbiscuit wrote:
enwikibadscience wrote:
Here's hoping she had no access to funds!

:blink:
You can hope, but I believe that her final demise at WMF was due to using their company credit card to pay her bail.
:blink:

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by dogbiscuit » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:49 pm

thekohser wrote:an audit determined that there was no other improper handling of WMF cash by Ms. Doran during her tenure with the non-profit.
These days you see a phrase like that and you think was this really an audit, or did some intern look in the draws of her desk and fail to find anything but a couple of sticks of gum. Even if they did find anything, I suspect that WMF would be more inclined to cover up rather than admit they'd been so stupid.
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Vigilant » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:50 pm

dogbiscuit wrote:
thekohser wrote:an audit determined that there was no other improper handling of WMF cash by Ms. Doran during her tenure with the non-profit.
These days you see a phrase like that and you think was this really an audit, or did some intern look in the draws of her desk and fail to find anything but a couple of sticks of gum. Even if they did find anything, I suspect that WMF would be more inclined to cover up rather than admit they'd been so stupid.
Some things never change.
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by thekohser » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:08 pm

dogbiscuit wrote:
thekohser wrote:an audit determined that there was no other improper handling of WMF cash by Ms. Doran during her tenure with the non-profit.
These days you see a phrase like that and you think was this really an audit, or did some intern look in the draws of her desk and fail to find anything but a couple of sticks of gum. Even if they did find anything, I suspect that WMF would be more inclined to cover up rather than admit they'd been so stupid.
Honestly, on this one, I think they did a legitimate third-party review. Not like the one where they checked to see if Jimbo had been misusing the company credit card in Tampa steak houses or in Moscow subways and "men's health" establishments. That one struck me very much as an intern looking in the drawers, telling Sue Gardner that there were a lot of suspicious receipts that indicated Jimbo should reimburse the WMF for his personal expenses, but then Sue going on CNET and saying "Jimmy has never done anything wrong", because Jimbo quietly agreed to write back a check for about $4,000 (if I recall).
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:53 pm

I'm sure it will all work out just fine.
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Cla68 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:56 am

This is some great stuff. My Way or Highway and straw man arguments. It's classic Wikipedian passive-aggressive behavior. It's amazing that these guys are still at it. They appear to have no capacity for self-awareness or reflection.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Vigilant » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:08 am

Smallboner, aka Peter Ekman, is a bit of a twat.

Don't make me come over there.
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by tarantino » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:29 am

HRIP7 wrote:
Tippi Hadron wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:Did you have to do that? I had hoped he was a teenager. :facepalm:
"Smallbones" aka Peter Ekman (pdekman@gmail.com) may not be a teenager, but he does seem short of a bob or two, if this grant application is anything to go by:
Full project name
Congressional Cemetery QRpedia Project

Budget breakdown
$298 - for 62 anodized steel “Garden Markers” used to display the QR codes in a dignified manner next to the graves and cenotaphs.
$84 – for printing and laminating the QR codes (in general 10 sheets each with 6 codes, printed, laminated, and cut at about $7 per sheet, with 2 sheets mostly spoiled)
$30 - expected additional printing costs
for a total of $412.
A grant for $412? This man is either incredibly stingy or he has no job. Also a fan of QR codes. "Andy" Mabbett must be so proud.

Ah, but Mr. Ekman knows people who know people:
Fortunately, my contact at the Cemetery, Program Director Rebecca Boggs Roberts, is a well-known journalist (see e.g. http://www.culturaltourismdc.org/blog/i ... l-cemetery ), the daughter of the legendary Cokie Roberts of National Public Radio, and the grand-daughter of Congressional leader Wade Boggs. She is a true Washington insider who knows her way around the world of journalism. She has agreed to review my press releases and offer a few tips.
Image
"Grave of Representative Tom Lantos. Note the QR code."

Duly noted. We are ... undone. Clearly, not even the dead are safe from diehard Wikipedians.
Excellent. :) Well, good to know that Wikipedia donations are always spent in such a way as to benefit the maximum possible number of readers.
I looked up Smallbones (T-C-L) a couple of weeks ago. Here he is on the local DC news.

He originally showed up on wp in 2005 as 69.253.195.228 ‎because the people behind The eXile (T-H-L) and The Beast (newspaper) (T-H-L) were saying mean things about him.

See "peter ekman" site:exile.ru

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by EricBarbour » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:44 am

Cla68 wrote:This is some great stuff. My Way or Highway and straw man arguments. It's classic Wikipedian passive-aggressive behavior. It's amazing that these guys are still at it. They appear to have no capacity for self-awareness or reflection.
Image

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by thekohser » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:34 am

tarantino wrote:He originally showed up on wp in 2005 as 69.253.195.228
I wonder how much it kills Ekman each month, writing out that check to his ISP, knowing that he's helping to pay my salary?
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:48 am

Cool page put together by Kevin Gorman, with some interesting background info and sample articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kevi ... ki-PR_Work

The sourcing seems quite ... adventurous ... once you poke it a little bit. (And there is a glorious capitalisation error in AllWomenStalk.)

I'm beginning to think Wiki-PR might deserve demonizing rather more than I thought. ;)

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Vigilant » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:00 am

AAHHAHAHHAHAHA
http://exiledonline.com/old-exile/112/ekman.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Matt_Taibbi/Archive_1
clarification from the subject

Hey editors, or volunteers: please be wary of Peter Ekman. This guy has a hard-on for me because of an old grudge dating back to the exile about ten years ago. About once every six months I come back to Wiki and find factual errors in here (ie my birthday) and I wouldn't be surprised if some of this was him. Regarding libel, if you asked me today what I meant, I would say that before I publish anything in America, I have to be vetted by lawyers who fear a lawsuit. There are times when I can't call someone a name because the lawyers worry he might sue. I didn't have that problem in Russia. I always maintained, in Russia, that our investigative reporting was 100% accurate and would have survived any legal scrutiny. What we didn't have to worry about was nuisance lawsuits from people like, well, Peter Ekman. As for my ethnicity, I'm Irish and Filipino. My father's adopted parents were Sicilians. Anyway, thanks for the good work overall. Taibbi (talk) 13:35, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by tarantino » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:02 am

Vigilant wrote:AAHHAHAHHAHAHA
http://exiledonline.com/old-exile/112/ekman.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Matt_Taibbi/Archive_1
clarification from the subject

Hey editors, or volunteers: please be wary of Peter Ekman. This guy has a hard-on for me because of an old grudge dating back to the exile about ten years ago. About once every six months I come back to Wiki and find factual errors in here (ie my birthday) and I wouldn't be surprised if some of this was him. Regarding libel, if you asked me today what I meant, I would say that before I publish anything in America, I have to be vetted by lawyers who fear a lawsuit. There are times when I can't call someone a name because the lawyers worry he might sue. I didn't have that problem in Russia. I always maintained, in Russia, that our investigative reporting was 100% accurate and would have survived any legal scrutiny. What we didn't have to worry about was nuisance lawsuits from people like, well, Peter Ekman. As for my ethnicity, I'm Irish and Filipino. My father's adopted parents were Sicilians. Anyway, thanks for the good work overall. Taibbi (talk) 13:35, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I think it's interesting that Greg Comlish (T-C-L), the guy who currently wants to put a picture of an anus on the main page also watches The eXile article. It appears he used to be known as Ryan Utt. One of Utt's last contributions was to post a screed about Ekman.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by thekohser » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:34 am

HRIP7 wrote:I'm beginning to think Wiki-PR might deserve demonizing rather more than I thought. ;)
That is good work by Gorman. I've never felt that what Wiki-PR was doing was 100% in line with Wikipedia's policies on NPOV and RS and NOTE. What I've been most concerned about is if the "guilty as charged" label is to be tossed on them, it should involve the correct charges (many of which were not), and that if a cease and desist letter were to be sent, it should come from an ethical and Wikipedia-compliant law firm (which it wasn't).
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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:03 pm

I've been chatting to Kevin on CREWE. I'll just leave this here – from the SEO part of the Wiki-PR website – with a hat tip to him:
Wikipedia Carbonara

Hire Professional Wikipedia writer expert Wikipedia writer, how do you make a wikipedia page, How to get on Wikipedia, make a Wikipedia page, professional wikipedia writer, reputation management Wikipedia, Wikipedia writer for hire admin

The first commercial pasta factory in the US was based in New York and opened in 1848. Since then, dried pasta has become a staple foodstuff for people from all walks of life, from students to gourmets. Even though dry pasta is a widely used foodstuff, innovations are still being made, and new varieties of shapes sizes and ingredients become available every year.

Many pasta companies are proud of their long history, and their tradition of supplying only the highest quality goods to the public. If you are a company that provides dried pasta to the retail all commercial market then you will be aware of the importance of public image and perception of your brand. As marketing progressively moves towards an online platform, many businesses are increasingly concerned with online reputation management. Wikipedia is a key element in any businesses digital marketing plan. Some businesses and individuals have been alarmed to discover that there is a Wikipedia entry in place for their business but that it provides inaccurate or out of date information. These concerns are compounded when they realize that they are unable to edit or correct the information that is to be found on the site.

Situation such as this arise because only certain people have access to Wikipedia in order to create and edit pages. Our expert Wikipedia writer service can resolve such issues on your behalf. As we are professionals on Wikipedia we are able to create pages for businesses that do not have a presence on the site, as well as edit pages that already exist.

Many businesses or individuals have in the past attempted to alter their own Wikipedia pages, but this generally results in bad press for the company concerned, due to the indications of self-promotion, and editing the site for their own ends. Engaging a professional Wikipedia writer prevents this problem from arising, as we are able to edit pages on behalf of our clients in a confidential and expert manner.

Contact us today to find out more about how we can assist your business to achieve a positive and accurate presence on Wikipedia. There is no obligation to purchase and we operate in complete confidence.
It goes on and on ... canned Wikipedia, Gluten free Wikipedia, and, wait for it, Extra Creamy Wikipedia.

Extra Creamy Wikipedia has a ring to it. There is a blog post in this, you know.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by HRIP7 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:33 pm

thekohser wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:I'm beginning to think Wiki-PR might deserve demonizing rather more than I thought. ;)
That is good work by Gorman. I've never felt that what Wiki-PR was doing was 100% in line with Wikipedia's policies on NPOV and RS and NOTE. What I've been most concerned about is if the "guilty as charged" label is to be tossed on them, it should involve the correct charges (many of which were not), and that if a cease and desist letter were to be sent, it should come from an ethical and Wikipedia-compliant law firm (which it wasn't).
Quite. Although it has to be said – if some of the info Wiki-PR put up was faked and knowingly false (there do appear to be examples of this in those articles), then they did violate the terms of use.
With the intent to deceive, posting content that is false or inaccurate;
Of course, there is nothing about this in the Foundation's cease-and-desist letter.

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Re: Demonized by Wikimedia, Wiki-PR carries on

Unread post by Jim » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:03 pm

It's worth remembering, also, that regardless of the pros and cons of "demonising" Wiki-PR, this conversation mostly arose because Andreas was trying to correct an omission, highlighted by Greg, of what he, and others, felt was relevant, reliable, well-sourced information about the results and process of the on-wiki investigation.

In that context, all of the concerns about the methods, strawmen and blind, almost ideological, reverts to such changes are still very valid and worthy of discussion. The merits and methods of the "edit war" and the suitability of Wiki-PR for "damnation" are two separate issues, to my mind... This comes back, of course, to the "binary" point I made earlier. I know the distinction can be understood here - I'm less sure it can happen there - BADSITES doesn't seem dead to me...
Last edited by Jim on Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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