Fæ wants a taste of that sweet, sweet WMF money

[Vigilant]

More stupidity that turns people off in that slide deck.

"Underrepresentation is violence" bullshit.

[MrErnie]

Question: Why no money from the WMF to LGBT+?
Answer: Wikimedia LGBT+ has not asked directly enough.

Slide 33

Solution: Request money from the WMF!

[WikiWatcher]

Question: Why no money from the WMF to LGBT+?
Answer: Wikimedia LGBT+ has not asked directly enough.

Slide 33

Solution: Request money from the WMF!

They haven't asked for money yet, except for the $100,000 for a conference that they appear not to have spent. Except some of it on this Zoom call where the main topic was... asking for more money? That and a bunch of presentations from other Wikimedia affiliates about the LGBT work that they're doing, without the apparent help or involvement of Wikimedia LGBT...

[WikiWatcher]

The $100,000 or whatever for the conference is now being spent on 3 Zoom calls in May. The Meta page about it is still a draft.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/QW2023

There is nothing in the 2022 'annual report' for the user group. They haven't had a meeting since May 2022.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT%2B/2022

Time for the User Group to just give up?

[Silent Editor]

The $100,000 or whatever for the conference is now being spent on 3 Zoom calls in May. The Meta page about it is still a draft.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/QW2023

There is nothing in the 2022 'annual report' for the user group. They haven't had a meeting since May 2022.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT%2B/2022

Time for the User Group to just give up?

Or maybe they just need Ashley back to run things?

Meanwhile, Bluerasberry seems to write a lot about why they can't put things in writing - but would really, really like to talk about it.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:QW ... of_meeting?

[Beeblebrox]

Or maybe they just need Ashley back to run things?

Meanwhile, Bluerasberry seems to write a lot about why they can't put things in writing - but would really, really like to talk about it.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:QW ... of_meeting?

I don't get this. Lane is a nice guy who seems generally very reasonable, but I ran into this same thing when I kind of sandbagged him over the Fae issue a few months back. Like, we're talking about it, and he's seemingly insisting that if I really wanted to talk about it we should arrange a time to talk about the thing we were already totally talking about, but by video conference. I don't get it, and since my whole reason for starting the conversation was to try to draw broader public attention to the situation, so that really didn't work for me. I also don't find it easier to come up with a time that works for everyone involved instead of just posting when it's convenient.

[Vigilant]

Or maybe they just need Ashley back to run things?

Meanwhile, Bluerasberry seems to write a lot about why they can't put things in writing - but would really, really like to talk about it.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:QW ... of_meeting?

I don't get this. Lane is a nice guy who seems generally very reasonable, but I ran into this same thing when I kind of sandbagged him over the Fae issue a few months back. Like, we're talking about it, and he's seemingly insisting that if I really wanted to talk about it we should arrange a time to talk about the thing we were already totally talking about, but by video conference. I don't get it, and since my whole reason for starting the conversation was to try to draw broader public attention to the situation, so that really didn't work for me. I also don't find it easier to come up with a time that works for everyone involved instead of just posting when it's convenient.

He was going to record you and use it against you.

[Giraffe Stapler]

Or maybe they just need Ashley back to run things?

Meanwhile, Bluerasberry seems to write a lot about why they can't put things in writing - but would really, really like to talk about it.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:QW ... of_meeting?

I don't get this. Lane is a nice guy who seems generally very reasonable, but I ran into this same thing when I kind of sandbagged him over the Fae issue a few months back. Like, we're talking about it, and he's seemingly insisting that if I really wanted to talk about it we should arrange a time to talk about the thing we were already totally talking about, but by video conference. I don't get it, and since my whole reason for starting the conversation was to try to draw broader public attention to the situation, so that really didn't work for me. I also don't find it easier to come up with a time that works for everyone involved instead of just posting when it's convenient.

He was going to record you and use it against you.

It's possible, but maybe it's because there are things he wants to say about the Fae situation that he doesn't want to say in public.

Or, it could just be the classic strategy of taking a difficult conversation out of the public eye. Of course I'm willing to talk to you about that, but just not here or just not now. Why don't we do it somewhere else where there's no record of what you asked or what I replied?

[Lurking]

Or maybe they just need Ashley back to run things?

Meanwhile, Bluerasberry seems to write a lot about why they can't put things in writing - but would really, really like to talk about it.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:QW ... of_meeting?

I don't get this. Lane is a nice guy who seems generally very reasonable, but I ran into this same thing when I kind of sandbagged him over the Fae issue a few months back. Like, we're talking about it, and he's seemingly insisting that if I really wanted to talk about it we should arrange a time to talk about the thing we were already totally talking about, but by video conference. I don't get it, and since my whole reason for starting the conversation was to try to draw broader public attention to the situation, so that really didn't work for me. I also don't find it easier to come up with a time that works for everyone involved instead of just posting when it's convenient.

He was going to record you and use it against you.

It's possible, but maybe it's because there are things he wants to say about the Fae situation that he doesn't want to say in public.

Or, it could just be the classic strategy of taking a difficult conversation out of the public eye. Of course I'm willing to talk to you about that, but just not here or just not now. Why don't we do it somewhere else where there's no record of what you asked or what I replied?

Could be an evasion/delaying tactic, too, along the lines of "most folks don't actually care enough to go through that effort, so probably no such conversation will happen but it'll look like I'm perfectly willing to—and if this person turns out to be the exception, hey, at least it gives me some additional time to get my story straight".

Or it could even be as simple as "strong preference to discuss sensitive subjects in a way that doesn't cut out pretty much all non-verbal cues". (Which, if so, is a fairly reasonable preference. Not one particularly compatible with an online, text-based, collaborative project, however)

But yeah, there's a lot of possible motivations, ranging from fairly benign if frustrating to outright malicious.

[WikiWatcher]

ooooh they have had a meeting - well spotted Peltarion, whoever you may be:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimed ... 2023-01-02

The user group currently has 3 main workstreams in flight (Queering Wikipedia 2023 conference, Conversation series, UG incorporation) and a few others more ad-hoc (UG annual report overdue, the usual ad-hoc and reactive work).

It is clear that we do not currently have consensus on priorities across these workstreams, with some differences of opinion between us. It is important that all the stakeholders (that is GovCom and the key volunteers and contractors) come to agreement, preferably by consensus, otherwise we will fail to deliver any of them effectively. This should include agreeing a schedule for these 3 major workstreams — in particular: when will QW2023 be, when is our target date for incorporation, when should the Conversation series begin?

So they don't know how they're going to deliver the two projects they have funding for (one $100k, one $30k) and still they want to incorporate (why? to ask for more money that they can't then spend?)...

If only there was someone involved who had been involved in a Wikimedia affiliate before that was doing the whole incorporating and hiring staff thing. Someone who manoeuvred their way into being appointed Chair and then ended up getting fired from the whole thing after turning out to be a malicious bully. Maybe the User Group should ask that person's advice on how to incorporate, and how to hire staff, and that stuff?

[Giraffe Stapler]

Anstil (T-C-L) has been checkuser blocked as a sockpuppet of Fae.

Looks like they created the account on Simple in September 2021 but managed to resist English Wikipedia until recently.

Hat tip to greyed.out,fields for spotting this.

[Vigilant]

Anstil (T-C-L) has been checkuser blocked as a sockpuppet of Fae.

Looks like they created the account on Simple in September 2021 but managed to resist English Wikipedia until recently.

Hat tip to greyed.out,fields for spotting this.

How do you say, "You're never going to be let back on en.wp!" in skeezy grifter?

[Vigilant]

Agree the wording "illegal content" is confusing and undefined. If the terms of use are an enforceable document and may be produced to support or defend against legal action, then the policy document needs a definition that most readers will understand. if the wide interpretation discussed on this page applies, and website contributors suffer legal exposure, then the WMF have a duty of care to warn people before they edit about the nature of that risk rather than a casual caveat emptor approach which could seem callous, if not negligent, considering the consequences can include lengthy imprisonment. --Anstil (talk) 17:09, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Good disguise there, genius.

[Vigilant]

Using Wikimedia projects for expression of beliefs and views that cause harm
In the light of legal cases in the last few years, and changes in legislation under US law and the law in other countries for "belief" or religious views becoming understood as protected characteristics, how does the Terms of Use reconcile the protection of people holding beliefs and religious views, and does the ToU act as a double-edged sword for minority communities that are actively harmed by the expression of extreme views? My reading is that under the ToU and UCoC, expressing "extreme" beliefs is allowed, only if they are expressed in a way to appear like a personal attack would they be considered unacceptable conduct. Clearly this can lead to gaming the system, with someone being offensive and causing distress, but claiming they are the one being harassed if anyone challenges them on their views or asks them to remove their opinion.

I have in mind users who may (claim to) feel they have a right to express their beliefs and views as opinions in discussion and formal requests for comments, even though one interpretation of the ToU makes those views unacceptable and sanction-able. For example views that deny the existence of transgender people, or promote conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 pandemic or historical accounts of the holocaust.

Though there may be local policies on the English Wikipedia for some of these topics, there are many other projects where no direct policy exists, for example on Wikimedia Commons it may be entirely valid to host extremist propaganda and discuss that propaganda, even though these may harm and distress minority communities, including Wikimedia volunteers, which they attack or defame. Anstil (talk) 10:30, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Classic!

[WikiWatcher]

Wikimedia LGBT has held a meeting!

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimed ... 2023-02-06

They are planning to incorporate, and join Wikimedia Europe. (Why Europe?)

This can only end well for all concerned.

[WikiWatcher]

And SOMEONE asked "can we have some pseudononymous officers representing the organization?"

Any experts on Belgian nonprofit law lurking here ready to answer that one? Can WMLGBT tell the King of Belgium that its board of directors consists of "Speedoguy", "Teahot", "Lux" and "M-Fax"?

[Anroth]

They are planning to incorporate, and join Wikimedia Europe. (Why Europe?)

Because Fae has history with WMUK and they wouldn't touch him.

[Ryuichi]

Can we close the 2022 budget and transfer the surplus to a new budget?

How is "give the money back" not considered?

[Vigilant]

Can we close the 2022 budget and transfer the surplus to a new budget?

How is "give the money back" not considered?

Especially since all of their previous planning has turned out to be utter bollocks.

[Silent Editor]

And SOMEONE asked "can we have some pseudononymous officers representing the organization?"

Any experts on Belgian nonprofit law lurking here ready to answer that one? Can WMLGBT tell the King of Belgium that its board of directors consists of "Speedoguy", "Teahot", "Lux" and "M-Fax"?

Not only will they have to say who they are, but WMF wants them to do stuff in return for the money they give them - so they've missed out on $34K funding for their 'conversation series'.

[Vigilant]

And SOMEONE asked "can we have some pseudononymous officers representing the organization?"

Any experts on Belgian nonprofit law lurking here ready to answer that one? Can WMLGBT tell the King of Belgium that its board of directors consists of "Speedoguy", "Teahot", "Lux" and "M-Fax"?

Not only will they have to say who they are, but WMF wants them to do stuff in return for the money they give them - so they've missed out on $34K funding for their 'conversation series'.

lol

The money was there for the taking and they couldn't gather enough brainpower to answer the WMF's questions...

If brains were dynamite, the whole group couldn't blow their nose.

[WikiWatcher]

Not only will they have to say who they are, but WMF wants them to do stuff in return for the money they give them - so they've missed out on $34K funding for their 'conversation series'.

With the WMF saying things like that, it doesn't look likely they'll be handing out cash for a WM LGBT Executive Director or anything any time soon.

[ArmasRebane]

And SOMEONE asked "can we have some pseudononymous officers representing the organization?"

Any experts on Belgian nonprofit law lurking here ready to answer that one? Can WMLGBT tell the King of Belgium that its board of directors consists of "Speedoguy", "Teahot", "Lux" and "M-Fax"?

Not only will they have to say who they are, but WMF wants them to do stuff in return for the money they give them - so they've missed out on $34K funding for their 'conversation series'.

lol

The money was there for the taking and they couldn't gather enough brainpower to answer the WMF's questions...

If brains were dynamite, the whole group couldn't blow their nose.

It is rather impressive, but then again I'm reminded about how back in high school they hammered into all of us to apply for all these grants and scholarships that you could get basically by asking and meeting the basic requirements. So few people actually applied for them and the money had to get divested anyhow, so anyone had a decent shot to pick up a couple hundred here or a few thousand there. Even for free money, people in aggregate are pretty damn lazy. I'd love to know what the actual internal group dynamics are for WMLGBT.

[Silent Editor]

I'm sure Ashley would prefer a gender neutral term for sockmaster.

[Vigilant]

Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

From Chairman of WMUK to indef banned sockmaster.

lolol

[Midsize Jake]

I'm sure Ashley would prefer a gender neutral term for sockmaster.

That's a good point — they're already using Template:Sockpuppeteer (T-H-L) for people who are merely "suspected," so if we assume that the number of non-binary people who run multiple accounts will increase, then they really should change it to "sockrunner" or "sockoperator" in order to appear non-discriminatory.

If it were my site, obviously I'd go with "sockthulhu," but it's not my site.

[Anroth]

At what point does Fae's shenanigans warrant a front page article? There are no outing concerns as his identity is public knowledge on and off-wiki, but we have gone from merely being an abusive and unpleasant sockmaster editor (and disgraced admin & WMUK chair etc etc) to (if we are being kind) extensive grifting. And if we are not being kind, deliberate misuse/mismanagement of grant funding.

Grant funding I might add, that should never have been given to any group that included Ashley at a management level - showing an absolute failure on the part of the WMF to perform due diligence into where its donation money was going. There are some hard questions here for the WMF about their choices in handing over cash to someone who has been told to get lost by a significant portion of the community it raises funds from.

(I have said before I dont actually have an issue with the grant proposal, only that it is clearly driven by someone and their close associates who are huge risks to any successful outcome. That seems to be bearing out.)

[WikiWatcher]

Grant funding I might add, that should never have been given to any group that included Ashley at a management level - showing an absolute failure on the part of the WMF to perform due diligence into where its donation money was going. There are some hard questions here for the WMF about their choices in handing over cash to someone who has been told to get lost by a significant portion of the community it raises funds from.

Does WMF actually talk to WMUK, or anything? It's insane if they either don't know or don't care about Ashley's record there. But the WMF often does insane things so who knows.

[Beeblebrox]

I'm sure Ashley would prefer a gender neutral term for sockmaster.

That's a good point — they're already using Template:Sockpuppeteer (T-H-L) for people who are merely "suspected," so if we assume that the number of non-binary people who run multiple accounts will increase, then they really should change it to "sockrunner" or "sockoperator" in order to appear non-discriminatory.

If it were my site, obviously I'd go with "sockthulhu," but it's not my site.

I have long preferred "puppeteer" to "master" for the simple reason that "master" implies just what people who do this think of themselves, that they are very clever, whereas "puppeteer" is what the situation really is, they are very silly and we can see the strings.

[WikiWatcher]

How is Queering Wikipedia shaping up?

Seems they are struggling to fill their 'office hours' about the event. But I am sure they are going to blow us away with the program for the event, which will be amazingly well attended.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:QW_Office_Hours

[Vigilant]

They all know that Ashley is radioactive to the WMF.

Yet he was the driving force behind the organization and the money grabbing.

They are on the horns of a dilemma.

[WikiWatcher]

The Wikimedia LGBT report for 2022 is now up!

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT%2B/2022

There's a lot of credit being taken for things that had very little involvement from the User Group. Perhaps not unusual for a Wikimedia chapter or whatever. But striking.

[Vigilant]

https://twitter.com/hexatekin

[Giraffe Stapler]

https://twitter.com/hexatekin

I must be missing something because I don't know how this person is connected to Fae or Wikipedia.

[Vigilant]

https://twitter.com/hexatekin

I must be missing something because I don't know how this person is connected to Fae or Wikipedia.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... on=history
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... /Hexatekin

Dorothy has taken over the role that Ashley had in nearly perfect synchronicity.
I wonder at whether she is a cat's paw.

[WikiWatcher]

Dorothy has taken over the role that Ashley had in nearly perfect synchronicity.
I wonder at whether she is a cat's paw.

More likely they've found a woman to delegate secretarial tasks to while Ashley concentrates on the important things, like his demands to boycott Wikimania.

[tarantino]

Dorothy's previous user names include OR drohowa (T-C-L), Vaughn88 (T-C-L) and Vaughn01 (T-C-L).

She is "forever shaped by former work she did as a farmers market fish seller, berry picker, gas station clerk, barista, server, movie theater attendant, tutor, and intern."

[eppur si muove]

https://twitter.com/hexatekin

I must be missing something because I don't know how this person is connected to Fae or Wikipedia.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... on=history
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... /Hexatekin

Dorothy has taken over the role that Ashley had in nearly perfect synchronicity.
I wonder at whether she is a cat's paw.

SO you're saying that Ashley may not be the best friend of Dorothy?

[Vigilant]

https://twitter.com/hexatekin

I must be missing something because I don't know how this person is connected to Fae or Wikipedia.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... on=history
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... /Hexatekin

Dorothy has taken over the role that Ashley had in nearly perfect synchronicity.
I wonder at whether she is a cat's paw.

SO you're saying that Ashley may not be the best friend of Dorothy?

Has anyone he's snuggled up to come out of it better for their association with him?

Ever?

[The Blue Newt]

https://twitter.com/hexatekin

I must be missing something because I don't know how this person is connected to Fae or Wikipedia.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... on=history
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... /Hexatekin

Dorothy has taken over the role that Ashley had in nearly perfect synchronicity.
I wonder at whether she is a cat's paw.

SO you're saying that Ashley may not be the best friend of Dorothy?

I was wondering who was gonna do this…

[Midsize Jake]

Dorothy has taken over the role that Ashley had in nearly perfect synchronicity.
I wonder at whether she is a cat's paw.

SO you're saying that Ashley may not be the best friend of Dorothy?

I was wondering who was gonna do this…

Well, y'know, sometimes you get a curve, sometimes you get one high and outside, and then every once in a while you get a fastball down the middle.

[Vigilant]

Dorothy has taken over the role that Ashley had in nearly perfect synchronicity.
I wonder at whether she is a cat's paw.

SO you're saying that Ashley may not be the best friend of Dorothy?

I was wondering who was gonna do this…

Well, y'know, sometimes you get a curve, sometimes you get one high and outside, and then every once in a while you get a fastball down the middle.

To be fair, it's easier if your first base coach is stealing signs.

[WikiWatcher]

They had a "Governance meeting" on Thursday:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimed ... 2023-04-20

It looks like Hexatekin is some kind of project manager for their conference, and unlike the rest of the user group is capable of having a conversation with the Austrians as a grown-up. I guess she 'volunteered' to post the annual report so that the user group didn't fall out of compliance with the WMF, as if it had, it wouldn't be eligible for any grants at all.

Good on her, I guess?

[Beeblebrox]

They had a "Governance meeting" on Thursday:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimed ... 2023-04-20

It looks like Hexatekin is some kind of project manager for their conference, and unlike the rest of the user group is capable of having a conversation with the Austrians as a grown-up. I guess she 'volunteered' to post the annual report so that the user group didn't fall out of compliance with the WMF, as if it had, it wouldn't be eligible for any grants at all.

Good on her, I guess?

This group obviously needed a new person at the helm, someone who was not yet another obvious Fae sock, so this may be a turning point for the group.

[Vigilant]

Indef blocked notorious dipshit tries to get Turds and Shits to go after a sitting ARB on behalf of a different notorious dipshit, both of whom were indef'd by previous ARBCOMs and who are now whinging on commons, the septic tank project of the WMF constellation, over comments not made on any wiki sites.

That sure sounds like THE hornet's nest that Toads and Skunks would want to stick their collective dick into...

Looks like ARBCOM was dumber and more corrupt than we gave them credit for.

[Vigilant]

Looks like Boxset is Ashley's newest sock

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... ons/Boxset




https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Boxset



Never change, Ashley. Never change.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... r%3ABoxset

Ashley's current sock

[Beeblebrox]

Looks like Boxset is Ashley's newest sock

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... ons/Boxset




https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Boxset



Never change, Ashley. Never change.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... r%3ABoxset

Ashley's current sock

What's funny is that this fools literally nobody I have spoken to about this, which is a number of people on different projects with differing levels of permissions. Nobody has denied or even tried to refute any of it. They all know this is Fae and are just looking the other way because of the claim that the stream of socks are to prevent harrassment for being queer, as opposed to any of the actual reasons people don't like Fae.

This piece of garbage tried to get an official sanction banning me from LGBTQ events. I have the receipts, I know they tried to weaponize the group against me for personal reasons, once again playing the victim and the bully at the same time. It didn't work but still, that's fucked up.

[Vigilant]

Looks like Boxset is Ashley's newest sock

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special ... ons/Boxset




https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Boxset



Never change, Ashley. Never change.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php? ... r%3ABoxset

Ashley's current sock

What's funny is that this fools literally nobody I have spoken to about this, which is a number of people on different projects with differing levels of permissions. Nobody has denied or even tried to refute any of it. They all know this is Fae and are just looking the other way because of the claim that the stream of socks are to prevent harrassment for being queer, as opposed to any of the actual reasons people don't like Fae.

This piece of garbage tried to get an official sanction banning me from LGBTQ events. I have the receipts, I know they tried to weaponize the group against me for personal reasons, once again playing the victim and the bully at the same time. It didn't work but still, that's fucked up.

Ashley van Haeften once again suborns the WMF.

I wonder if Tits&Shits was involved through the backdoor with ARBCOM...