Grant Shapps again...

Internet Fads, Fallacies, and GroupThink - and their influence on Wikipedia.
Information must be free, as is your hard work.
User avatar
DanMurphy
Habitué
Posts: 3148
kołdry
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Wikipedia User: Dan Murphy
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy

Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by DanMurphy » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:30 pm

You may remember this thread about the rather lame complaints over Tory party chairman Grant Shapps editing his Wikipedia biography.

Well, there's been more news on Mr. Shapps that is also somewhat relevant to Wikipedia and WIkimedia's campaigning against stricter copy-right enforcement online.
Grant Shapps, the Conservative party chairman, posed as a "multimillion-dollar web marketer" named Michael Green who spoke to reveal the secrets of his trade at a $3,000-a-head internet conference in Las Vegas while he was the Tory party candidate for Welwyn Hatfield.

The pictorial evidence of his double life, revealed online by a fellow conference speaker, will pile pressure on Shapps to explain his links to a network of websites which have been blocked by Google for breaching its rules on copyright infringement and encouraging customers to plagiarise content.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:06 pm

DanMurphy wrote:You may remember this thread about the rather lame complaints over Tory party chairman Grant Shapps editing his Wikipedia biography.

Well, there's been more news on Mr. Shapps that is also somewhat relevant to Wikipedia and WIkimedia's campaigning against stricter copy-right enforcement online.
Grant Shapps, the Conservative party chairman, posed as a "multimillion-dollar web marketer" named Michael Green who spoke to reveal the secrets of his trade at a $3,000-a-head internet conference in Las Vegas while he was the Tory party candidate for Welwyn Hatfield.

The pictorial evidence of his double life, revealed online by a fellow conference speaker, will pile pressure on Shapps to explain his links to a network of websites which have been blocked by Google for breaching its rules on copyright infringement and encouraging customers to plagiarise content.
I joined the Welwyn Hatfield forum on his MP website a week ago, and his exploits as Michael Green were being discussed there, too. They looked far more problematic than his Wikipedia editing. In part, that section of the story preceded the Wikipedia story; see e.g. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 ... intcmp=239 on September 7th, and this web page the article linked to: http://www.thedailyincome.com/michael-green using a picture of someone else.

The latest revelation, that he actually made personal appearances as Green as well, takes things well into the realm of the ridiculous.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:56 pm

John Prescott posted that picture of Shapps on his Twitter feed, showing him in Las Vegas, wearing a name tag saying "Michael Green"

https://twitter.com/johnprescott/status ... 08/photo/1

Image

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:03 pm

However, the marketing blurb for the Las Vegas event did say

http://web.archive.org/web/200403270250 ... ummit.com/
Michael Green isn’t like any other Internet Marketer we know. In just two years he’s built his online HowToCorp business from scratch, by personally developing 15 toolkit products for purchase and download over the web. In addition he’s established what has now become the world’s largest internet marketing forum at http://www.howtocorp.com/forum (and his site is now ranked within the busiest 1800 on the worldwide web).

Now achieving all of this in two year might seem like a miracle, but there’s a twist. Well two twists actually…

The first thing to know about Michael Green is that internet marketing is NOT his full time job. He already owns an unrelated offline printing business in London. In fact, he only runs his online business ONE-DAY-A-WEEK and that includes both the marketing AND product development!

So imagine developing 15 products, creating a mega online business such as HowToCorp, only working at it one day a week and professionally moderating the world’s largest internet marketing forum! We’re struggling to understand how he does it too.

But we mentioned there’s a second twist…

In addition to all of the above, Michael is also pursuing a full-time career in Public Service, which he says actually takes up MOST of his time.

Okay, we’re intrigued Michael – just how do you fit all of that in?

Well, for one thing we know that Michael has never shared his secrets in person, in public before. You heard us right. He’s turned down repeated requests to be a speaker at internet marketing conferences and boot camps. We should know. We’ve asked him before and he’s said no. In fact, he even said no when we first approached him to be a speaker at this 2nd JVSeminar. So, you can imagine our delight when we received a single line email saying that he’s so impressed with what we’re putting together here that he would agree to speak in person for the first time ever.

Michael has actually recently given a brief glimpse of how he fits everything in by releasing some of his precious Time Management secrets in http://www.HowToManageYourTime.com and it’s available for free download.

But there’s one last thing that you’ll discover about Michael Green when you meet him and that’s that he isn’t who you think he is!

All the way from the UK, this multi-million dollar marketer is one guest that we know you’re really going to enjoy meeting at the Joint Venture Summit II.
So it may have been somewhat tongue in cheek, with his real identity an open secret.

Still, some of the stuff his firm sold seems not exactly top-drawer.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:51 pm

Grant Shapps denies 'double life' accusations despite business alter ego

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 91193.html

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:52 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -joke.html
Mr Shapps is being investigated by the Advertising Standards Agency over his use of an alias, but he last night insisted his real identity was "never a secret".

The senior MP said he is "absolutely not embarrassed" about having built a successful business under the name of Michael Green while he was recovering for Hodgkin's Lymphoma, a type of cancer.

Hitting back at his critics, Mr Shapps said he only attended an event with a name badge reading "Michael Green" because it was his pseudonym used to write books like How to Get Stinking Rich. [...]

EricBarbour
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Location: hell

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by EricBarbour » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:10 am

Mr Shapps said he only attended an event with a name badge reading "Michael Green" because it was his pseudonym used to write books like How to Get Stinking Rich. [...]
Think I'll pass on that title.

User avatar
thekohser
Majordomo
Posts: 13408
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
Wikipedia User: Thekohser
Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by thekohser » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:03 pm

HRIP7 wrote:John Prescott posted that picture of Shapps on his Twitter feed, showing him in Las Vegas, wearing a name tag saying "Michael Green"

https://twitter.com/johnprescott/status ... 08/photo/1

Image
Speaking of John Prescott, Jimbo returned from a 6-day Wikipedia hiatus to swoop in on Prescott's Talk page, returning to the scene of the "box of kink" wikicrime against Prescott's and Wikipedia's reputations.

What does Wales have in common with Prescott? I would say that both were close followers of Tony Blair who have more recently come around to public criticisms of the former Prime Minister's foreign affairs.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

User avatar
DanMurphy
Habitué
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Wikipedia User: Dan Murphy
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by DanMurphy » Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:28 pm

In a small coincidence it appears Mr. Shapp's alleged main Wikipedia account Contribsx (T-C-L) was indefinitely blocked today by Wikimedia UK's Richard Symmonds (AKA Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (T-C-L).) The Guardian almost immediately covered the "news".
Wikipedia has blocked a user account on suspicions that it is being used by the Conservative party chairman, Grant Shapps, “or someone acting on his behalf” to edit his own page along with the entries of Tory rivals and political opponents.

The online encylopedia, where pages are edited and created by readers, has tracked the changes made by a user called “Contribsx” who has systematically removed embarrassing references on Shapps’ Wikipedia page about the Tory chairman’s business activities as Michael Green, the self-styled millionaire web marketer...

The site’s administrators, selected Wikipedia volunteers who patrol the site, told the Guardian that they “believe that the account Contribsx is a sockpuppet of Grant Shapps’ previous accounts on Wikipedia ... and based on the evidence the account is either run by Shapps directly or being run by someone else – an assistant or a PR agency – but under his clear direction.”
ADDING: Ah, Mr. Symmond's version is a bit of a departure from the Guardian's version.
A Guardian journalist contacted me with concerns that Contribsx is a sockpuppet of Hackneymarsh. Hackneymarsh was outed in the newspaper several years ago as allegedly being run by a prominent UK politician. I started investigating (independently of the Guardian) whether Contribsx could indeed be a sockpuppet of Hackneymarsh, and the evidence is pretty conclusive:

Anroth
Nice Scum
Posts: 3041
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 3:51 pm

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Anroth » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:06 pm

This smacks of playing politics in the run up to an election. I wouldnt put it past most wikipedians to want to bloody the tory parties nose at this time. Now the question is, was Cavalry a puppet of the Guardian in a liberal plot to discredit the tories, or was he a willing participant?

User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12180
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:17 pm

Anroth wrote:This smacks of playing politics in the run up to an election. I wouldnt put it past most wikipedians to want to bloody the tory parties nose at this time. Now the question is, was Cavalry a puppet of the Guardian in a liberal plot to discredit the tories, or was he a willing participant?
I didn't think the Tories needed discrediting...

RfB
“I tell ya, it's a bit rich to see Silver seren post about the bad offsite people considering how prolific he was (is?) at WR.” —Mason, WPO, April 12, 2012

Anroth
Nice Scum
Posts: 3041
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 3:51 pm

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Anroth » Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:29 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Anroth wrote:This smacks of playing politics in the run up to an election. I wouldnt put it past most wikipedians to want to bloody the tory parties nose at this time. Now the question is, was Cavalry a puppet of the Guardian in a liberal plot to discredit the tories, or was he a willing participant?
I didn't think the Tories needed discrediting...

RfB
They kind of do at this point. The opposition at the moment is such a bag of clowns, anything to make the Tories look stupid is a plus for them.

Carcharoth
Habitué
Posts: 1223
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:44 am
Wikipedia User: Carcharoth

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Carcharoth » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:18 am

It's made the BBC as well:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32407991

Though I've been distinctly unimpressed with the BBC coverage anyway.

Some hilarious moments in this election campaign, but it could all get a lot less funny if no government can form and there is a period of chaos and another election.

User avatar
Notvelty
Retired
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:51 am
Location: Basement

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Notvelty » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:41 am

Anroth wrote:This smacks of playing politics in the run up to an election.
The Grauniad? No! Never! Next you'll tell me the Spectator is attempting to do the same thing. :)
Anroth wrote: I wouldnt put it past most wikipedians to want to bloody the tory parties nose at this time.
I wouldn't put it past most wikipedians to be willing actors on behalf of whatever echo chamber they were a part of. They have form, after all.
Anroth wrote: Now the question is, was Cavalry a puppet of the Guardian in a liberal plot to discredit the tories, or was he a willing participant?
Certainly seems like he was easily led. But wikipedians, along with a tendency to blindly believe anything that comes out of the cosy intellectual cul-de-sac they've made for themselves, also have a habit of only doing half the job. Someone with a bit of competence (i.e. not your standard wikipedian) would have investigated the claim from the Grauniad that an account was a sock-puppet and then checked the accounts arguing against it.
-----------
Notvelty

User avatar
Notvelty
Retired
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:51 am
Location: Basement

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Notvelty » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:41 am

Randy from Boise wrote:
Anroth wrote:This smacks of playing politics in the run up to an election. I wouldnt put it past most wikipedians to want to bloody the tory parties nose at this time. Now the question is, was Cavalry a puppet of the Guardian in a liberal plot to discredit the tories, or was he a willing participant?
I didn't think the Tories needed discrediting...

RfB
Those people are conservatives?

Pffft. Labour-lite the lot of them.
-----------
Notvelty

User avatar
tarantino
Habitué
Posts: 4763
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:19 pm

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by tarantino » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:28 am

DanMurphy wrote:In a small coincidence it appears Mr. Shapp's alleged main Wikipedia account Contribsx (T-C-L) was indefinitely blocked today by Wikimedia UK's Richard Symmonds (AKA Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (T-C-L).) The Guardian almost immediately covered the "news".
Wikipedia has blocked a user account on suspicions that it is being used by the Conservative party chairman, Grant Shapps, “or someone acting on his behalf” to edit his own page along with the entries of Tory rivals and political opponents.

The online encylopedia, where pages are edited and created by readers, has tracked the changes made by a user called “Contribsx” who has systematically removed embarrassing references on Shapps’ Wikipedia page about the Tory chairman’s business activities as Michael Green, the self-styled millionaire web marketer...

The site’s administrators, selected Wikipedia volunteers who patrol the site, told the Guardian that they “believe that the account Contribsx is a sockpuppet of Grant Shapps’ previous accounts on Wikipedia ... and based on the evidence the account is either run by Shapps directly or being run by someone else – an assistant or a PR agency – but under his clear direction.”
ADDING: Ah, Mr. Symmond's version is a bit of a departure from the Guardian's version.
A Guardian journalist contacted me with concerns that Contribsx is a sockpuppet of Hackneymarsh. Hackneymarsh was outed in the newspaper several years ago as allegedly being run by a prominent UK politician. I started investigating (independently of the Guardian) whether Contribsx could indeed be a sockpuppet of Hackneymarsh, and the evidence is pretty conclusive:
It's now erupting at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry and SPI. I have a feeling that this isn't going to end well for wikimedia UK employee Richard Symonds.

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31695
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Vigilant » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:41 am

ARBCOM case requested.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... tion_block
Statement by Risker
Members of the Arbitration Committee are aware of the core issues here. On 21 April 2015 at 1513 hours UTC, Chase me Ladies, I'm the Cavalry (ChaseMe for short) blocked Contribsx (talk · contribs) for abusing multiple accounts.[2] Immediately before that, he had initiated a sockpuppet investigation (SPI) at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Hackneymarsh in which he alleged that Contribsx was a sock of Hackneymarsh; in that SPI, he states that he was contacted by reporters from the UK newspaper The Guardian. His original statement also implied that the account was managed by or managed at the direction of a specific living person who is the subject of one of the articles edited by Contribsx and also edited several years previously by Hackneymarsh; however, as it was pointed out to him off-wiki that such a statement was a BLP violation (absent direct proof that the living person was directing or responsible for the edits of Contribsx) ChaseMe modified his statement. After he had completed the SPI and the block, he noted that, because the subject of the key article in question is a British politician involved in the current election, there would likely be some media attention. He then added a link to the news report in The Guardian at 1524 hours UTC.[3] The Guardian news story was published at 15.55 hours BST, or 1455 hours UTC[4], and includes nearly direct quotes from ChaseMe's unmodified SPI statement, and also states that the Contribsx account was blocked by Wikipedia "administrators" - despite the fact that the account was not blocked until 18 minutes after the Guardian article was published. The allegation that the living person was abusively editing Wikipedia using the Contribsx account has now been widely reported through most major news outlets throughout the United Kingdom.

Because the range of sanctions involved includes the removal of both checkuser and administrator permissions, the only body that can appropriately hear this matter is the Arbitration Committee. As well, because this case involves checkuser data, a living person who is a candidate in an ongoing and very contentious national election, and likely some off-wiki information including social media and emails, at least some of the evidence will need to be reviewed privately by the Arbitration Committee; however, there is a fair amount of publicly available and on-wiki information to manage this case publicly with acknowledgement that certain evidence may remain non-public. Risker (talk) 03:17, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Dumbest person on the planet ... white courtesy telephone...

Something about a blind pig and an acorn.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
The Joy
Habitué
Posts: 2606
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:20 am
Wikipedia Review Member: The Joy

Election 2015: Grant Shapps denies Wikipedia claims (BBC)

Unread post by The Joy » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:24 am

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2015-32407991
The Guardian reports that Wikipedia barred a user called Contribsx from making further changes after its volunteer "administrators" found the account had systematically removed references to Mr Shapps' past business activities.

The administrator reportedly told the paper they believed the account was "either run by Shapps directly" or by someone else "but under his clear direction".

According to the Guardian, a third of the contributions were made to Mr Shapps' own Wikipedia entry and the rest were "largely unflattering changes" to the pages of other political figures.
Contribsx (T-C-L)

The Guardian:
Grant Shapps accused of editing Wikipedia pages of Tory rivals
"In the long run, volunteers are the most expensive workers you'll ever have." -Red Green

"Is it your thesis that my avatar in this MMPONWMG was mugged?" -Moulton

dotdash
Contributor
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:43 pm

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by dotdash » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:42 am

I imagine this edit:
the account is either run by Shapps/Hackneymarsh directly in violation or being run under his clear direction
I believe that the account is either run by Hackneymarsh directly in violation or being run under his clear direction
will be much debated. The original hangs around for 50 minutes, but forms the basis for the juiciest quote in the Guardian article (and was requoted by the BBC).

Shapps' response thus far is high on bluster but seems to have plenty of wiggle room for a seasoned professional:
nobody has ever been authorised to make such changes ... A simple look in my diary shows I was elsewhere
Mod. edit: Archive link
Last edited by HRIP7 on Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Archive link added.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Election 2015: Grant Shapps denies Wikipedia claims (BBC

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 9:47 am

The Guardian:
only Yahoo, Facebook, Microsoft and Google, are more popular websites than Wikipedia.
:facepalm:

Alexa top sites:

1 Google.com
2 Facebook.com
3 Youtube.com
4 Yahoo.com
5 Baidu.com
6 Wikipedia.org
Wikipedia’s administrators told the Guardian they believed that Shapps has used alternative accounts that were not fully and openly disclosed in order to “split his editing history, so that other editors were not able to easily detect patterns in his contributions. While this is permitted in certain circumstances, it was not in this case: it is clear that the account was created in order to confuse or deceive editors.

“Further, the website’s terms of use prohibit engaging in deceptive activities, including misrepresentation of affiliation. As the account has misrepresented its affiliation, and the account is clearly controlled by Shapps, this is a violation of the terms of use.”

A spokesperson from Wikimedia UK, the UK charity that supports Wikipedia, said: “We would welcome any MPs who choose to become editors, and are happy to provide training sessions to anyone who wants to learn.

“However, the Wikipedia project is founded on trust, and anyone who tries to deceive our volunteers and readers in order to further their own ends should think very carefully about the morality of what they’re doing. Eventually, the public will find out.”
Prior blog post on Grant Shapps' editing of his biography.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Election 2015: Grant Shapps denies Wikipedia claims (BBC

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:15 am

Nick Clegg mocks Grant Shapps over Wikipedia affair

I recall that at least one Wikimedia UK trustee is a member of the Liberal Democrats.
I have been a member of the Liberal Democrats since 1997, and was a staff member there between 2002-2010. In May 2014 I was a Lib Dem candidate the London Borough of Lambeth. To avoid the appearance of a conflict of loyalties I would recuse myself from any discussions in Wikimedia UK regarding the Liberal Democrats, though this situation has not so far arisen. (If you look at my editing history, you will see that some of my first edits were on Lib Dem related topics, though none since 2006.)
I should be surprised if this topic hasn't come up in his conversations with party colleagues – not that there would necessarily be anything wrong with that, all of this being essentially public information.

The Wikipedia arbitration case is heading for acceptance at almost unprecedented speed: votes are 7 for accept, with 1 recusal and none against, all those votes coming in within 6½ hours of the case being filed.

User avatar
Ming
the Merciless
Posts: 2983
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Ming » Wed Apr 22, 2015 10:48 am

Apparently Ming is a WikiNinja, at least according to Fae:
During my tenure as an elected trustee on the board of Wikimedia UK, I was advised by employees (including Chase) that they were running "black ops" investigations. This included employees having anonymous accounts on Wikipediocracy in order to glean information from non-public threads. If this is still going on, and relies (or has relied) on checkuser information, or information from OTRS accounts, then it is about time these secrecy games came to an end, and employees advised to stick to open and accountable working using "WMUK" accounts, or those involved advised to make open declarations about their anonymous activities.
:afraid: :B'

User avatar
Jim
Blue Meanie
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am
Wikipedia User: Begoon
Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
Location: NSW

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Jim » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:09 am

Interesting, though, don't you think, that after supposedly being in possession of this alleged information for a number of years, Ashley only now sees fit to speak out, as the opportunity arises to pile on and stick the boot into some of the people he sees as having been complicit in not allowing him even to renew his WMUK membership :crying: ?
Don't get me wrong, I have a low opinion of Mr Symonds, but Ashley's long-term grudge games are pitiful to behold.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:20 am

Fæ (= former Wikimedia UK trustee and chairman Ashley van Haeften, now turned WMUK critic) also alleges that "The UK chapter has a long and open history of working with newspaper contacts on secret Wikipedia investigations as part of increasing the charity's media profile." That's potentially interesting.

Let's have Fæ's statement in full:
I welcome Arbcom shining some light in public on this case. The impact has been publicly damaging, and continues to damage Wikimedia projects as the press run with this story.

Chase appears to have been driving the investigation in cooperation with the newspaper while the story was being prepared even if information was not directly cut&paste (as appears to have been stated by himself on the sockpuppet investigation with "[The Guardian] did point out the likelihood of sockpuppetry and explained the connections between the various characters, which is a lot of work - thankyou!"). I note that a second Wikimedia employee used their personal Wikipedia account to protect the article on 21 April. Chase's investigation is entirely likely to have been done with the support of other employees of Wikimedia UK as part of their "communications" activities, indeed The Guardian has used a public statement from "a spokesperson from Wikimedia UK", which Chase must have been part of preparing.[5] The UK chapter has a long and open history of working with newspaper contacts on secret Wikipedia investigations as part of increasing the charity's media profile.

During my tenure as an elected trustee on the board of Wikimedia UK, I was advised by employees (including Chase) that they were running "black ops" investigations. This included employees having anonymous accounts on Wikipediocracy in order to glean information from non-public threads. If this is still going on, and relies (or has relied) on checkuser information, or information from OTRS accounts, then it is about time these secrecy games came to an end, and employees advised to stick to open and accountable working using "WMUK" accounts, or those involved advised to make open declarations about their anonymous activities.

I suggest that Arbcom contact D'Arcy Myers, the current interim Wikimedia UK CEO,[6] at the commencement of this case, for an official statement with regards to what Wikipedia investigations are being run covertly, with the support or facilities of the charity even if on a "tacit" basis. Other employees involved in any way, should be invited to make a public statement and expect to be a party to this case.
For what I hope are obvious reasons, I urge Arbcom members who are personal friends with Chase (himself a past member of Arbcom) to recuse. --Fæ (talk) 09:51, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
I have to say, as far as "black ops" go, having an innocuously-named account on WO is not exactly a heinous crime, especially given the backdrop of Wikipedia's pervasive pseudonymity/anonymity.

User avatar
Notvelty
Retired
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:51 am
Location: Basement

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Notvelty » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:24 am

Ming wrote:Apparently Ming is a WikiNinja, at least according to Fae:
During my tenure as an elected trustee on the board of Wikimedia UK, I was advised by employees (including Chase) that they were running "black ops" investigations. This included employees having anonymous accounts on Wikipediocracy in order to glean information from non-public threads. If this is still going on, and relies (or has relied) on checkuser information, or information from OTRS accounts, then it is about time these secrecy games came to an end, and employees advised to stick to open and accountable working using "WMUK" accounts, or those involved advised to make open declarations about their anonymous activities.
:afraid: :B'
What a pathetic moral vacuum of a human being.

In a position of authority, the choices are not to accept confidences and act immediately or shut up and not speak. Anything else is worthy of contempt.
-----------
Notvelty

User avatar
Notvelty
Retired
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:51 am
Location: Basement

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Notvelty » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:26 am

Notvelty wrote:
Ming wrote:Apparently Ming is a WikiNinja, at least according to Fae:
During my tenure as an elected trustee on the board of Wikimedia UK, I was advised by employees (including Chase) that they were running "black ops" investigations. This included employees having anonymous accounts on Wikipediocracy in order to glean information from non-public threads. If this is still going on, and relies (or has relied) on checkuser information, or information from OTRS accounts, then it is about time these secrecy games came to an end, and employees advised to stick to open and accountable working using "WMUK" accounts, or those involved advised to make open declarations about their anonymous activities.
:afraid: :B'
What a pathetic moral vacuum of a human being.

In a position of authority, the choices are not to accept confidences and act immediately or shut up and not speak. Anything else is worthy of contempt.
Adding:
Hmm.. did he sign an NDA as part of his employment?
-----------
Notvelty

User avatar
Jim
Blue Meanie
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am
Wikipedia User: Begoon
Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
Location: NSW

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Jim » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:32 am

Notvelty wrote:Hmm.. did he sign an NDA as part of his employment?
For WMUK, in those days? I doubt there's even a written contract.

User avatar
Jim
Blue Meanie
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am
Wikipedia User: Begoon
Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
Location: NSW

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Jim » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:41 am

HRIP7 wrote:I have to say, as far as "black ops" go, having an innocuously-named account on WO is not exactly a heinous crime, especially given the backdrop of Wikipedia's pervasive pseudonymity/anonymity.
Of course it's not. I think we assume there are lots, quite possibly including Ash himself... :wave:
The point, for me, regardless of actual wrongdoing in the other points he raises, is that he supposedly has sat on this nugget until it seemed handy to lob it into this action.
Last edited by Jim on Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:42 am

Jim wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:I have to say, as far as "black ops" go, having an innocuously-named account on WO is not exactly a heinous crime, especially given the backdrop of Wikipedia's pervasive pseudonymity/anonymity.
Of course it's not. I think we assume there are lots, quite possibly including Ash himself...
The point, for me, regardless of actual wrongdoing in the other points he raises, is that he supposedly has sat on this nugget until it seemed handy to lob it into this action.
If there's something to it, better late than never.

By the way, I wonder if any Wikimedia trustee breaking a NDA to disclose serious and unequivocal wrongdoing could ever be got at, because, if the wrongdoing is real, the adverse publicity for Wikimedia itself would surely outweigh any benefit of taking the former member to court.

User avatar
Jim
Blue Meanie
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am
Wikipedia User: Begoon
Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
Location: NSW

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Jim » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:44 am

HRIP7 wrote:
Jim wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:I have to say, as far as "black ops" go, having an innocuously-named account on WO is not exactly a heinous crime, especially given the backdrop of Wikipedia's pervasive pseudonymity/anonymity.
Of course it's not. I think we assume there are lots, quite possibly including Ash himself...
The point, for me, regardless of actual wrongdoing in the other points he raises, is that he supposedly has sat on this nugget until it seemed handy to lob it into this action.
If there's something to it, better late than never.
In terms of learning about it, yes, I agree.
By the way, I wonder if any Wikimedia trustee breaking a NDA to disclose serious and unequivocal wrong-doing could ever be got at, because, if the wrongdoing is real, the adverse publicity for Wikimedia itself would surely outweigh any benefit of taking the former member to court.
That's also true. Acting in the public interest is usually seen, popularly, as trumping NDAs. Withholding that disclosure for a long period and then revealing it as part of a personal grudge, less so. I guess it depends on the view taken of the seriousness of the wrongdoing.

Hex
Retired
Posts: 4130
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:40 pm
Wikipedia User: Scott
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Hex » Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:54 am

HRIP7 wrote:If there's something to it, better late than never.
Ahem.
JN466 wrote: At any rate, note that both accounts and both IPs stopped editing Wikipedia more than two years ago. ... But yes, let's have some more dramah, why don't we. JN466 12:47, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
(Yes, I know you weren't referring to Shapps just now, but, :P )
My question, to this esteemed Wiki community, is this: Do you think that a Wiki could successfully generate a useful encyclopedia? -- JimboWales
Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:12 pm

Hex wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:If there's something to it, better late than never.
Ahem.
JN466 wrote: At any rate, note that both accounts and both IPs stopped editing Wikipedia more than two years ago. ... But yes, let's have some more dramah, why don't we. JN466 12:47, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
(Yes, I know you weren't referring to Shapps just now, but, :P )
Touché. :) With hindsight, it's just as well that these prior suspicions of socking are on that page today.

I do recall Mr Shapps has an online fan club (I joined it briefly when this first came up here a couple of years ago). I don't think it's beyond imagination that a few of its esteemed members might have gotten busy with Wikipedia, with Shapps' tacit (though never explicit, of course) approval.

Hex
Retired
Posts: 4130
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:40 pm
Wikipedia User: Scott
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Hex » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:25 pm

HRIP7 wrote:With hindsight, it's just as well that these prior suspicions of socking are on that page today.
I actually asked the author of today's piece on Twitter why he didn't mention the two Guardian articles about Shapps and Wikipedia from 2012. He said he did, but it was removed prior to publication.
My question, to this esteemed Wiki community, is this: Do you think that a Wiki could successfully generate a useful encyclopedia? -- JimboWales
Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)

User avatar
DanMurphy
Habitué
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Wikipedia User: Dan Murphy
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by DanMurphy » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:26 pm

How could checkuser connect "Hackneymarsh," which hadn't edited since 2010, with "Contribsx"? I thought they didn't store IP data for longer than weeks or months.

Adding:
Accept but this case needs to be adjudicated in camera. Salvio Let's talk about it! 09:38, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Last edited by DanMurphy on Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:27 pm

See also this earlier post from September 2012:
People on Wikipediocracy wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:
eppur si muove wrote:
EricBarbour wrote:Why does this smell like a dirty political trick, facilitated by the now-loved-by-the-Guardian Jimbo?
I seriously wonder if some Labourite talked to Wales, and mentioned they wanted to "get rid" of Shapps, and he checked into it,
and found Shapps had edited his own BLP? Since a LOT of politicians edit their own BLPs, there is always a good chance
this trick will work. And Jimbo knows it.
I think you're letting your imagination run away here. I'm sure that political hacks now know to check a politician's BLP for signs of massaging whenever they want to dig the dirt and Shapps promotion to the cabinet plus his being the subject of another internet news story was the time to look.

In any case there was only a suggestion that Shapps had edited the article, an IP in his constituency being used to complain about some bias and to puff certain other things. There might have been secondary evidence of Shapps having used the relevant ISP but it could have been someone from the constituency office or the local party. They then needed to ring Shapps and listen to what he said to prove anything concrete.
There is now a follow-up article in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012 ... sfeed=true
Sources close to Shapps emphasised that the four usernames – 217.155.38.72 (T-C-L), 90.196.154.2 (T-C-L), Historyset (T-C-L) and Hackneymarsh (T-C-L) – could only be linked to "computers in the constituency office of the Tory chairman".
On the other hand, Shapps did tell the Daily Mail he had made edits himself and gave examples, which matched edits in the contributions history of 217.155.38.72 (T-C-L).
One other thing.

That old Guardian article referenced in the above old post is from September 2012. At that time, Fæ (Ashley Van Haeften), Richard Symonds and Chris Keating were all working together at WMUK. On the "Declarations of Interest" page, Chris Keating said at the time, "Chris has no interests that need declaring."

That changed a few weeks later, though, on 15 November 2012, when he declared his LibDem ties. Why? It's certainly possible that Fæ might know what he is talking about, and that Wikimedia UK was somehow involved in the story then, too.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:28 pm

DanMurphy wrote:How could checkuser connect "Hackneymarsh," which hadn't edited since 2010, with "Contribsx"? I thought they didn't store IP data for longer than weeks or months.
Hex didn't know that at the time. (See the discussion on that page.)

User avatar
DanMurphy
Habitué
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Wikipedia User: Dan Murphy
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by DanMurphy » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:32 pm

HRIP7 wrote:
DanMurphy wrote:How could checkuser connect "Hackneymarsh," which hadn't edited since 2010, with "Contribsx"? I thought they didn't store IP data for longer than weeks or months.
Hex didn't know that at the time. (See the discussion on that page.)
? My question is how this could be done. Or are you telling me that the answer is: It can't. Symmonds wrote: "I ran a Checkuser, and it yielded a 'likely' result."

What could "checkuser" actually show to link a 5 year old account with a current one?

Anthonyhcole
Habitué
Posts: 1120
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:35 am
Wikipedia User: Anthonyhcole

Re: Election 2015: Grant Shapps denies Wikipedia claims (BBC

Unread post by Anthonyhcole » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:34 pm

HRIP7 wrote:The Wikipedia arbitration case is heading for acceptance at almost unprecedented speed...
They need to look at all the evidence Chase me had when he blocked the account, and determine whether Chase me accurately characterised the strength of that evidence. That should be doable in 24 hours. Then they can take as long as is necessary to examine any new evidence and give an opinion on the matter. If they wait until all parties have submitted evidence and argued things out, they'll have nothing to report until after the election.

[Edit] Actually, since it's being held in camera, which is inquisitorial, and not through the onwiki evidence and workshop process, they should be able to deal with the whole thing in a day or two.
Last edited by Anthonyhcole on Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:48 pm

DanMurphy wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:
DanMurphy wrote:How could checkuser connect "Hackneymarsh," which hadn't edited since 2010, with "Contribsx"? I thought they didn't store IP data for longer than weeks or months.
Hex didn't know that at the time. (See the discussion on that page.)
? My question is how this could be done. Or are you telling me that the answer is: It can't. Symmonds wrote: "I ran a Checkuser, and it yielded a 'likely' result."

What could "checkuser" actually show to link a 5 year old account with a current one?
That's a good question. Checkuser data is only kept for 3 months. In addition, the checkuser on Hackneymarsh and Historyset was never run, according to that page, as those data were long gone even in 2012.

So unless someone ran previous checkusers not mentioned on the SPI page and kept records of them, all Symonds ("Chase me") would have had yesterday were the two IPs from the 2012 report – said by the Guardian to be linkable to Shapps' constituency office – and the various IPs he mentions in his own post, all of which were also stale.

The checkuser would have given him the IP that user Contribsx (T-C-L) posted from (along with operating system and browser data, which would have been worthless given the lack of a comparator).

Archive of the Hackneymarsh SPI page for future reference.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:55 pm

https://archive.is/Ci6gj

Fæ has added clarifications and strike-throughs. Page content now is as follows (on Wikipedia, the sections coloured blue have strike-through applied to them):
Statement by Fæ

I welcome Arbcom shining some light in public on this case. The impact has been publicly damaging, and continues to damage Wikimedia projects as the press run with this story.

Chase appears to have been driving the investigation in cooperation with the newspaper while the story was being prepared even if information was not directly cut&paste (as appears to have been stated by himself on the sockpuppet investigation with "[The Guardian] did point out the likelihood of sockpuppetry and explained the connections between the various characters, which is a lot of work - thankyou!"). I note that a second Wikimedia employee used their personal Wikipedia account to protect the article on 21 April. Chase's investigation is entirely likely to have been done with the support of other employees of Wikimedia UK as part of their "communications" activities, indeed The Guardian has used a public statement from "a spokesperson from Wikimedia UK", which Chase must have been part of preparing.[5] The UK chapter has a long and open history of working with newspaper contacts on secret Wikipedia investigations as part of increasing the charity's media profile.

During my tenure as an elected trustee on the board of Wikimedia UK, I was advised by employees (including Chase) that they were running "black ops" investigations. This included employees having anonymous accounts on Wikipediocracy in order to glean information from non-public threads. If this is still going on, and relies (or has relied) on checkuser information, or information from OTRS accounts, then it is about time these secrecy games came to an end, and employees advised to stick to open and accountable working using "WMUK" accounts, or those involved advised to make open declarations about their anonymous activities.

I suggest that Arbcom contact D'Arcy Myers, the current interim Wikimedia UK CEO,[6] at the commencement of this case, for an official statement with regards to what Wikipedia investigations are being run covertly, with the support or facilities of the charity even if on a "tacit" basis. Other employees involved in any way, should be invited to make a public statement and expect to be a party to this case.
For what I hope are obvious reasons, I urge Arbcom members who are personal friends with Chase (himself a past member of Arbcom) to recuse. --Fæ (talk) 09:51, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Note, based on Worm That Turned's threat to block me because of language,[7] I have struck some superfluous words above. I will be happy to strike further if he thinks it is needed. --Fæ (talk) 12:04, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

@Worm That Turned: I have said nothing here about employees "own gain", so there has been no "extraordinary accusation", only a statement of fact.

The cases that I knew about where WMUK employees including Chase were involved were being run for entirely virtuous reasons, such as debunking PR manipulation of Wikipedia articles. At the board level we supported the idea that the charity could take a lead in ensuring that the press had factual and appropriate information, rather than repeating gossip. Trusted checkusers and OTRS volunteers were involved, I am sure they can come forward and make statements. I have nowhere claimed that confidential information has been released, but it would be naive to presume that those with access to confidential material like this, who are at the same time working with journalists, are not influenced by the information. Neither Wikipedia, nor the UK charity, have any firm governance rules on how to separate these activities, apart from not actually cut & pasting the material; for example it is common to paraphrase emails from closed email discussions where there was an expectation of confidentiality, such as we see for OTRS.

Thanks for your note that I have "fallen far from grace with WMUK". Neither the Wikimedia UK Head of Communications (who I talked with at the time), nor the CEO will deny the facts stated, though based on past experience they are likely to add some spin. If you believe these are bizarre (and easy to disprove) lies, perhaps you should test them by asking. I could spend time ferreting through emails from when I was a trustee, but I do not want to be responsible for passing on what might be retrospectively claimed to be records of the charity, when there has been no request under the Freedom of Information Act.

I would prefer it if the facts of this case remained the focus, rather than tangential statements about me. I am neither a trusted user nor have any political influence, not just down to allegations from long ago which destroyed my reputation, but mainly thanks to the sustained hounding and public character assassination which a couple of apparently obsessive people attracted to my private life, have been unable to resist over the years since. --Fæ (talk) 11:46, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

I have struck my statement entirely. I shall consider if it is worth the volunteer effort, and the risk of being blocked, for trying to make a statement in this case about what I know to be true, from my time as a charity trustee that are relevant to this case. I was told things as a trustee and the Chairman of Wikimedia UK about activities of the employees for which there will be no hard on-wiki evidence, so verification may boil down to whether the people who have been involved are prepared to make an open and straight-forward statement out of good conscience. --Fæ (talk) 12:32, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:24 pm

Statement by Wikimedia UK employee Richard Symonds ("Chase me"):
Statement by Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry[edit]

This is a sensible precaution and I understand why it has to be done. It should be done in private. In short, I - and several other editors - were contacted by the Guardian in early April about the suspicion they had that Contribsx was deceiving editors on Wikipedia. I treated this email as I would treat any email from a member of the public about foul play: I investigated it in my own time as a volunteer administrator/checkuser. I did so independently of the Guardian but they were able to point out a few edits that were particularly suspicious. I came to the conclusion listed on the SPI, and ran this conclusion past other administrators, who concurred. I then responded to the Guardian journalist that I would be blocking the account, and my reasons - not sharing any personally identifiable data with them - and went to immediately block the account. I already had the reasons and evidence written out. I then struggled with the SPI template for over half an hour, which was not displaying properly. You can see in the history of the SPI that even after I hit 'save' rather than 'preview', I still had to manually build the page up - this explains the delay between the Guardian's article and the SPI case page. I then emailed the checkuser email list explaining the potentially contentious block I had made, and I sent a separate message to Jimmy Wales explaining what I'd done.

I made the SPI case public in the interests of transparency, as I knew there would be questions asked, but I admit that ideally I should have run this past more people for checking. I have not provided any statements to the press, everything I have shared with non-functionaries is shared publicly in the SPI.

Once again, I think it's sensible to review things like this and am more than happy to support it, as long as it's done privately, for obvious reasons. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (Message me) 10:24, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
There is an obvious contradiction here:

(1) I then responded to the Guardian journalist that I would be blocking the account, and my reasons - not sharing any personally identifiable data with them - and went to immediately block the account.

(2) I have not provided any statements to the press, everything I have shared with non-functionaries is shared publicly in the SPI.

User avatar
Jim
Blue Meanie
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am
Wikipedia User: Begoon
Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
Location: NSW

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Jim » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:42 pm

HRIP7 wrote: Fæ has added clarifications and strike-throughs.
Statement by Fæ
...
I have struck my statement entirely. I shall consider if it is worth the volunteer effort, and the risk of being blocked, for trying to make a statement in this case about what I know to be true, from my time as a charity trustee that are relevant to this case. I was told things as a trustee and the Chairman of Wikimedia UK about activities of the employees for which there will be no hard on-wiki evidence, so verification may boil down to whether the people who have been involved are prepared to make an open and straight-forward statement out of good conscience. --Fæ (talk) 12:32, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
The 'risk of being blocked' is here, where WTT says:
So I'm going to give you a standard "put up or shut up". Either provide evidence that such actions have been going on, or retract the accusation. If you do not do either of those, I will not hesitate to block you for disruption.
At the case request, Worm said:
If accurate, why in the hell did you not do something about it at the time. I note however that you have fallen far from grace with WMUK and wonder how accurate these accusations are.
And Ashley attempts to back off by turning it into some sort of "theoretical" what-if:
There are 14 employees at Wikimedia UK.[8] and a few are active administrators on the English Wikipedia. An employee protected the biography, another ran the SPI case and checkuser, while yet another prepared an official statement to The Guardian. It is possible but would be surprising if these people did not communicate with each other before the official statement from the charity to the press was finalized. If they did, then actions taken as an unpaid volunteer and actions as a full time employee must be considered blurred.
Pathetic. You made direct and specific accusations, Ash. If they were true you could stand by them without the faux "fear" that has long been your pretend trademark.

Caught trying to act on a grudge sans substance. Plus ça change.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:50 pm

More from Fæ:
Two observations:

1. There are 14 employees at Wikimedia UK.[8] and a few are active administrators on the English Wikipedia. An employee protected the biography, another ran the SPI case and checkuser, while yet another prepared an official statement to The Guardian. It is possible but would be surprising if these people did not communicate with each other before the official statement from the charity to the press was finalized. If they did, then actions taken as an unpaid volunteer and actions as a full time employee must be considered blurred.

2. It is stated that "I - and several other editors - were contacted by the Guardian". I have no idea how the Guardian contacts editors off-wiki, or how the Guardian would select their Wikipedia representatives. Presumably via a Wikimedia email account on OTRS or through an existing network or list of Wikimedians with an interest for working with journalists. It would be reassuringly transparent if the actions of The Guardian as to what, who, when and how this contact happened, were publicly stated. --Fæ (talk) 13:33, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Adding: Useful write-up on the Edinburgh Eye blog: Grant Shapps accuses Wikipedia of being gamed by the Labour party

User avatar
DanMurphy
Habitué
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:58 pm
Wikipedia User: Dan Murphy
Wikipedia Review Member: DanMurphy

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by DanMurphy » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:55 pm

Captain Renault makes an appearance.
In his Twitter profile, Mr Symonds describes himself as a “Liberal Democrat to the last.” He has written letters to newspapers, including The Telegraph, in his capacity as a Liberal Democrat activist. Mr Symonds is a staff member at Wikimedia UK, the charity which promotes Wikipedia in the UK. He is listed as one of about 50 “functionaries,” senior administrators described as having “privileged technical access” on the site.

Anthonyhcole
Habitué
Posts: 1120
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:35 am
Wikipedia User: Anthonyhcole

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Anthonyhcole » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:03 pm

DanMurphy wrote:Captain Renault makes an appearance.
In his Twitter profile, Mr Symonds describes himself as a “Liberal Democrat to the last.” He has written letters to newspapers, including The Telegraph, in his capacity as a Liberal Democrat activist. Mr Symonds is a staff member at Wikimedia UK, the charity which promotes Wikipedia in the UK. He is listed as one of about 50 “functionaries,” senior administrators described as having “privileged technical access” on the site.
:facepalm:

Hex
Retired
Posts: 4130
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:40 pm
Wikipedia User: Scott
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Hex » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:08 pm

From the link Andreas posted.
Apparently he couldn't have made any of these edits because he was "elsewhere at the time". Elsewhere from the Internet?

Also over and over again describing this as a smear against him, yet simultaneously saying it was Ed Miliband's doing, without any evidence whatsoever. Hello, pot and kettle?
My question, to this esteemed Wiki community, is this: Do you think that a Wiki could successfully generate a useful encyclopedia? -- JimboWales
Yes, but in the end it wouldn't be an encyclopedia. It would be a wiki. -- WardCunningham (Jan 2001)

User avatar
Randy from Boise
Been Around Forever
Posts: 12180
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 2:32 am
Wikipedia User: Carrite
Wikipedia Review Member: Timbo
Actual Name: Tim Davenport
Nom de plume: T. Chandler
Location: Boise, Idaho

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by Randy from Boise » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:29 pm

A couple snarky statements:

1. After seeing how easily content in The Guardian was gamed by activists during the WP GamerGate case, I have zero problem accepting that they were played again. There is a symbiosis between activists and the press, not just the liberal press, but all the press.

2. If our brave cavalryman is indeed a "Liberal Democrat to the end," are the Tories being disingenuous or just lying with their claim that this is a Labour Party hit on Dear Leader? Or is a new political fusion in the works between the tepid LibDems and the flaccid New Labour peeps and are the Tories being (for the first time ever) prescient?


RfB
“I tell ya, it's a bit rich to see Silver seren post about the bad offsite people considering how prolific he was (is?) at WR.” —Mason, WPO, April 12, 2012

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:02 pm

DanMurphy wrote:Captain Renault makes an appearance.
In his Twitter profile, Mr Symonds describes himself as a “Liberal Democrat to the last.” He has written letters to newspapers, including The Telegraph, in his capacity as a Liberal Democrat activist. Mr Symonds is a staff member at Wikimedia UK, the charity which promotes Wikipedia in the UK. He is listed as one of about 50 “functionaries,” senior administrators described as having “privileged technical access” on the site.
I had something at the back of my mind that Chase me had LibDem connections as well ... (along with others at WMUK?)

Do you remember WMUK employing Midas Training? We discussed that here a while back. That had a LibDem connection as well.

User avatar
thekohser
Majordomo
Posts: 13408
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
Wikipedia User: Thekohser
Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by thekohser » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:03 pm

DanMurphy wrote:Captain Renault makes an appearance.
In his Twitter profile, Mr Symonds describes himself as a “Liberal Democrat to the last.” He has written letters to newspapers, including The Telegraph, in his capacity as a Liberal Democrat activist. Mr Symonds is a staff member at Wikimedia UK, the charity which promotes Wikipedia in the UK. He is listed as one of about 50 “functionaries,” senior administrators described as having “privileged technical access” on the site.
Also:
Mr Symonds had not been suspended but was off sick.
The favorite health condition of Wikipedians when the shit hits the fan.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Grant Shapps again...

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:07 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:A couple snarky statements:

1. After seeing how easily content in The Guardian was gamed by activists during the WP GamerGate case, I have zero problem accepting that they were played again. There is a symbiosis between activists and the press, not just the liberal press, but all the press.

2. If our brave cavalryman is indeed a "Liberal Democrat to the end," are the Tories being disingenuous or just lying with their claim that this is a Labour Party hit on Dear Leader? Or is a new political fusion in the works between the tepid LibDems and the flaccid New Labour peeps and are the Tories being (for the first time ever) prescient?


RfB
Perhaps the Tories just didn't see it coming. After all, they've been in a coalition with the LibDems these past few years.

Post Reply