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Midsize Jake
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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:25 pm

560wasbullied wrote:Not sure what the big controversy is for my detractors on this - lol storytelling is pseudoscience?
It can be, but that's not the point. You proposed an idea ("Google is, or is like, a conscious entity") that a large percentage of people would say is completely misguided and wrong, and seemingly refuse(d) to admit or accept that anyone could have justification for thinking it was misguided and wrong. Calling it a "metaphor" or "storytelling" now is, again, disingenuous and distractionary, and pretending not to know why it would be controversial... well, that's simply insulting. You put the idea out there, so either own it or disown it. Be a man, man! Attempting to redefine it as a "bit of fun" is little more than the classic charlatan's defense.

Have you never had people around you who have disagreed with you in a respectful, non-hostile way? I don't know you of course, but if I had to guess, I'd probably guess that first.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Lukeno94 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:28 pm

I'm still curious to know why you returned from a four year break to jump into the Rupert Sheldrake debate, and why you didn't do anything else bar argue about it.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by enwikibadscience » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:15 pm

DanMurphy wrote: Neither of you have any idea what you're talking about.
I am so surprised. Shocked. Really. I was not expecting this.

:popcorn:

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:18 pm

Midsize Jake wrote:
560wasbullied wrote:Not sure what the big controversy is for my detractors on this - lol storytelling is pseudoscience?
It can be, but that's not the point. You proposed an idea ("Google is, or is like, a conscious entity") that a large percentage of people would say is completely misguided and wrong, and seemingly refuse(d) to admit or accept that anyone could have justification for thinking it was misguided and wrong. Calling it a "metaphor" or "storytelling" now is, again, disingenuous and distractionary, and pretending not to know why it would be controversial... well, that's simply insulting. You put the idea out there, so either own it or disown it. Be a man, man! Attempting to redefine it as a "bit of fun" is little more than the classic charlatan's defense.
well I don't know what to tell ya dude - you need to take things i'm telling you at face value, they arn't that complex and I made a lot of effort here to be transparent with you. The talk starts with 'THIS TALK IS A VIRAL. it's the STORY of the MEME google consciousness'. That should be your first clue. the talk INTENTIONALLY walks the fine line. You're stumbling over it. if you want to take that as my dissertation on something - then do it on my dissertation on story telling that plays with the theme 'Google maybe is conscious'. Since I am it's author, only I can truly claim to know what it's about.

What does this have to do with the BLP? are you saying I have a COI because I gave a talk called Google consciousness? If you don't think this raises a COI, then if you want to start another topic about it can you do so on another thread?
Have you never had people around you who have disagreed with you in a respectful, non-hostile way? I don't know you of course, but if I had to guess, I'd probably guess that first.
I'm not sure I understand the question. I've had numerous positive and negative collaborative experiences through out my life. I've been building and working with teams for over 25 years. Artists, musicians, technicians, attorneys, programmers, researchers you name it. Sometimes it's extrordinary - sometimes it's traumatizing. I assume this is true for most people.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:20 pm

Lukeno94 wrote:I'm still curious to know why you returned from a four year break to jump into the Rupert Sheldrake debate, and why you didn't do anything else bar argue about it.
A fair question - here is a complete and transparent answer

https://sites.google.com/site/wikipedia ... ome-Viharo

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by DanMurphy » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:22 pm

560wasbullied wrote:
DanMurphy wrote:Ok. Our mystery poster (if he's telling the truth) is Rome Viharo.

Here is Mr. Viharo and a friend giving a talk about how knowledge can be obtained from plants by singing to them and positing that the google search algorithm is a sentient being. And "memes." Lots and lots of "memes."
Hey Mr. Viharo: "Social media is now being held as responsible for the collapse of the Egyptian government." No. Only by idiots. His friend says: "You must admit it's stimulating to consider that Google consciousness already exists and a sentient web is now attacking the very power structures that threaten its existence in the middle east."

Neither of you have any idea what you're talking about. Pretty much blinkered techno-libertarian claptrap with a sprinkling of new age nonsense all the way down.
Hey Dan - did you have anything productive to contribute to the topic at all?
Yes don't ever talk about Egypt again. It's embarrassing for you.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:30 pm

DanMurphy wrote: Yes don't ever talk about Egypt again. It's embarrassing for you.
Why would I bring up Egypt in a thread about you and your pals cyber bullying people on the internet?

and if I did, why would I be embarrassed?

I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain something that went over your head. Once you catch it, you may find the embarrassment is all yours.

Until then, do you have to disrupt this conversation about the BLP and cyberbullying?

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by DanMurphy » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:39 pm

560wasbullied wrote:
DanMurphy wrote: Yes don't ever talk about Egypt again. It's embarrassing for you.
Why would I bring up Egypt in a thread about you and your pals cyber bullying people on the internet?

and if I did, why would I be embarrassed?

I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain something that went over your head. Once you catch it, you may find the embarrassment is all yours.

Until then, do you have to disrupt this conversation about the BLP and cyberbullying?
You appear to be a proponent of "ideas." You don't know me but I'm not a big fan of "ideas." The views you at least appear to push (now you appear to suggest this is some playful game - which many people, me included, won't be inclined to participate in) are laughably unsound, and stem from a techno-utopian viewpoint that is frankly ignorant.

I find grown men whining about "bullying" when they exhibit no symptoms of having been actually bullied (you seem strangely aggressive and contemptuous of others, not cowed or frightened) and without presenting any evidence of it tedious. In fact I see it as a tactic to try to win some internet game, not a legitimate complaint. Forgive me for making that assumption, but I've seen this movie too many times before.

If you have a specific complaint about something done at Wikipedia (or here) that is abusive of a person, describe it plainly and directly. And in as few words as possible. If your case has merit I have no doubt that many people here will agree with you. I might even be one of them.

I am frankly tired of this "singularity" BS, since it doesn't stand up to intelligent scrutiny. But will leave that be. What is your complaint about an article or articles at Wikipedia?

Again, speak plainly.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:42 pm

tarantino wrote:
560wasbullied wrote: Anyway - I have a first pass of my entire case.
Does it have anything to do with OS 0 1 2 , Rome?
only according to vzaak, IRWolfie, Roxy the dog, Miles Money, Barney the Barney Barney, Red Pen of Doom


https://sites.google.com/site/wikipedia ... d-os-0-1-2

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:49 pm

DanMurphy wrote: You appear to be a proponent of "ideas."
um, sure okay I can see that someone could say that

You don't know me but I'm not a big fan of "ideas."
Nothing personal but who cares?

The views you at least appear to push (now you appear to suggest this is some playful game - which many people, me included, won't be inclined to participate in) are laughably unsound, and stem from a techno-utopian viewpoint that is frankly ignorant.
okay. start a blog?
I find grown men whining about "bullying" when they exhibit no symptoms of having been actually bullied (you seem strangely aggressive and contemptuous of others, not cowed or frightened) and without presenting any evidence of it tedious. In fact I see it as a tactic to try to win some internet game, not a legitimate complaint. Forgive me for making that assumption, but I've seen this movie too many times before.
Yawn. I'm sorry I was too busy counting all my evidence for cyberbullying and got distracted. What were you saying? You have a blog?

If you have a specific complaint about something done at Wikipedia (or here) that is abusive of a person, describe it plainly and directly
donzo

https://sites.google.com/site/wikipedia ... me/summary

. And in as few words as possible.
Lol well 3 out 4 aint bad. But i need help editing it down and appreciate any suggestions. I want to make it really good because the evidence is so crystal clear.


If your case has merit I have no doubt that many people here will agree with you. I might even be one of them.
Lol well we haven't gotten off to a good start but I'm ready to turn a new leaf if you are :)

I am frankly tired of this "singularity" BS, since it doesn't stand up to intelligent scrutiny. But will leave that be. What is your complaint about an article or articles at Wikipedia?

Again, speak plainly.
if your interested you can start here

https://sites.google.com/site/wikipedia ... me/summary

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by neved » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:49 pm

DanMurphy wrote:
560wasbullied wrote:
DanMurphy wrote:Ok. Our mystery poster (if he's telling the truth) is Rome Viharo.

Here is Mr. Viharo and a friend giving a talk about how knowledge can be obtained from plants by singing to them and positing that the google search algorithm is a sentient being. And "memes." Lots and lots of "memes."
Hey Mr. Viharo: "Social media is now being held as responsible for the collapse of the Egyptian government." No. Only by idiots. His friend says: "You must admit it's stimulating to consider that Google consciousness already exists and a sentient web is now attacking the very power structures that threaten its existence in the middle east."

Neither of you have any idea what you're talking about. Pretty much blinkered techno-libertarian claptrap with a sprinkling of new age nonsense all the way down.
Hey Dan - did you have anything productive to contribute to the topic at all?
Yes don't ever talk about Egypt again. It's embarrassing for you.
"Spring Awakening How an Egyptian Revolution Began on Facebook" by New York Times
"Social Media Sparked, Accelerated Egypt’s Revolutionary Fire" by Wired
"How Social Media Is Keeping the Egyptian Revolution Alive" by PBS
"دراسة ترصد دور الإعلام الاجتماعي في مصر بعد الثورة" "Surveillance study the role of social media in Egypt after the revolution" by aitnews.com
"بالفيديو والصور.. "أصوات مصرية" تناقش إسهام الإعلام البديل بالثورة" "Voices of Egypt" to discuss the contribution of alternative media revolution in Egypt" by http://gate.ahram.org.eg
Last edited by neved on Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Lukeno94 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:51 pm

DanMurphy wrote: I find grown men whining about "bullying" when they exhibit no symptoms of having been actually bullied (you seem strangely aggressive and contemptuous of others, not cowed or frightened) and without presenting any evidence of it tedious. In fact I see it as a tactic to try to win some internet game, not a legitimate complaint. Forgive me for making that assumption, but I've seen this movie too many times before.
Although I'm generally inclined to agree with you wrt to lack of actual bullying, it can actually make people turn more aggressive - hence how people who are bullied often end up being bullies themselves.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Midsize Jake » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:58 pm

Lukeno94 wrote:I'm still curious to know why you returned from a four year break to jump into the Rupert Sheldrake debate, and why you didn't do anything else bar argue about it.
My impression of that was that it wasn't so much a "break," he just already had the account from his earlier foray (to create an article on "AL 0 1 2") and figured it would look better to use that than to create a whole new account. Established Wikipedians (such as yourself?) would see this as a "break" because they've been inculcated into the belief that everyone takes the whole thing really seriously.

Even so, the original version's paragraph on this was not only scant, but completely inaccurate - and brazenly so, because it even linked to the actual material it refers to. Also, note that Robert McLuhan is not currently the subject of a Wikipedia BLP article, thereby eliminating him as a target for Wikipedians and leaving Sheldrake as the only option for WP-based revenge-seekers.
Rupert mentioned this [Guerrilla Skeptics] as a brief note in his newsletter, implying his concern along with Robert's and requesting anyone with Wikipedia experience to reach out to Robert if they wanted to help.
When in fact the actual material reads thusly (emphasis mine):
Robert McLuhan has recently drawn attention to the phenomenon of guerrilla skeptics, who devote a great deal of time and energy to modifying Wikipedia entries so that they reflect a skeptical point of view about psychic phenomena, and try to portray research on these subjects as pseudoscience. His blog on the subject is here: Guerrilla Skeptics

Some people regard Wikipedia as a lost cause, but Robert thinks it’s important to do something about it, and I agree with him. If you have some experience in editing Wikipedia, know something about parapsychology and would like to help Robert and me with this project, please let me know. My email address is below.
As you can see, he doesn't "imply" his concern, he states it outright, and more importantly, he directs people to contact him, not McLuhan. (He also wants people who "know something about parapsychology" in addition to having experience with Wikipedia, but I'll let that one slide.)

It may be that Mr. Viharo was the most enthusiastic of those responding to this query, or it may be that he didn't respond at all. Mr. Viharo claims to have met Mr. Sheldrake "once," about a year ago, and liked him - but also claims not to know much about his beliefs, much less actually share those beliefs. Personally, I could probably accept that he just decided, for no particular reason other than his casual familiarity with (and liking of) Sheldrake, to take a close(r) look at the situation - and having seen what the WP'ers were doing, became convinced that action had to be taken and that he was the one who should take that action. However, I suspect I'm in a small minority on that one, even among people here.

Another thing that strikes me, having written all this, is that Mr. Viharo may be feeling a bit guilty right about now for having misrepresented himself to Sheldrake as someone with "Wikipedia experience" - he had an existing account that had been active at one point, but that's obviously not the same thing. What Sheldrake needed was a Wikipedia expert, someone who understood how to navigate the minefields and, more importantly, actually defuse the mines. Mr. Viharo apparently didn't even know the minefields existed, and maybe even thought the whole thing was going to somehow be "easy."

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:09 pm

Midsize Jake wrote:
Lukeno94 wrote:I'm still curious to know why you returned from a four year break to jump into the Rupert Sheldrake debate, and why you didn't do anything else bar argue about it.
My impression of that was that it wasn't so much a "break," he just already had the account from his earlier foray (to create an article on "AL 0 1 2") and figured it would look better to use that than to create a whole new account. Established Wikipedians (such as yourself?) would see this as a "break" because they've been inculcated into the belief that everyone takes the whole thing really seriously.

Even so, the paragraph on this is not only scant, but completely inaccurate - and brazenly so, because it even links to the actual material it refers to. Also, note that Robert McLuhan is not currently the subject of a Wikipedia BLP article, thereby eliminating him as a target for Wikipedians and leaving Sheldrake as the only option for WP-based revenge-seekers.
Rupert mentioned this [Guerrilla Skeptics] as a brief note in his newsletter, implying his concern along with Robert's and requesting anyone with Wikipedia experience to reach out to Robert if they wanted to help.
When in fact the actual material reads thusly (emphasis mine):
Robert McLuhan has recently drawn attention to the phenomenon of guerrilla skeptics, who devote a great deal of time and energy to modifying Wikipedia entries so that they reflect a skeptical point of view about psychic phenomena, and try to portray research on these subjects as pseudoscience. His blog on the subject is here: Guerrilla Skeptics

Some people regard Wikipedia as a lost cause, but Robert thinks it’s important to do something about it, and I agree with him. If you have some experience in editing Wikipedia, know something about parapsychology and would like to help Robert and me with this project, please let me know. My email address is below.
As you can see, he doesn't "imply" his concern, he states it outright, and more importantly, he directs people to contact him, not McLuhan. (He also wants people who "know something about parapsychology" in addition to having experience with Wikipedia, but I'll let that one slide.)
okay, I can see that! I will make that edit, I think your right

It may be that Mr. Viharo was the most enthusiastic of those responding to this query, or it may be that he didn't respond at all. Mr. Viharo claims to have met Mr. Sheldrake "once," about a year ago, but also claims not to know much about him or support his beliefs. Personally, I could probably accept that he just decided, for no particular reason other than his casual familiarity with Sheldrake, to take a close(r) look at the situation - and having seen what the WP'ers were doing, became convinced that action had to be taken and that he was the one who should take that action. However, I suspect I'm in a small minority on that one, even among people here.
I'm just being honest. Although I did know about Rupert SHeldrake for sure, I was aware he was controversial and I heard of Morphic Resonance, I just never had an opinion on it. I knew of him and did find him to be interesting.

Another thing that strikes me, having written all this, is that Mr. Viharo may be feeling a bit guilty right about now for having misrepresented himself to Sheldrake as someone with "Wikipedia experience" - he had an existing account that had been active at one point, but that's obviously not the same thing.
Nah - I never represented myself that way at all. I told him I have experience framing arguments online and that I am a developer of a platform for this sort of problem. I specifically told him I had to hire an experienced Wikipedian - and besides he didnt ask me to take this on, I'm sure he appreciates any help he can get.
What Sheldrake needed was a Wikipedia expert, someone who understood how to navigate the minefields and, more importantly, actually defuse the mines. Mr. Viharo apparently didn't even know the minefields existed, and maybe even thought the whole thing was going to somehow be "easy."
I think this is a partially fair critique - but things also improved believe it or not since I was active. I did set something in motion and I am proud of my arguments that I took to the board. I think many of those arguments still have momentum, even though some are giving them better than I. And the battle is not over either. The Capn has reached out to everyone who has been harassed, and there is off wiki co-ordination with a number of experienced wikipedians on this issue. It's a long haul, I did not expect this to get resolved shortly and I still am passionate about the issue.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:16 pm

560wasbullied wrote:Until then, do you have to disrupt this conversation about the BLP and cyberbullying?
There's a huge difference between cyberbullying and telling a flake to flake off.

It's also quite possible to simply ignore people on web forums.
This is not a signature.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Lukeno94 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:21 pm

Midsize Jake wrote:My impression of that was that it wasn't so much a "break," he just already had the account from his earlier foray (to create an article on "AL 0 1 2") and figured it would look better to use that than to create a whole new account. Established Wikipedians (such as yourself?) would see this as a "break" because they've been inculcated into the belief that everyone takes the whole thing really seriously.
I termed it as a "break" because it was the simplest thing to refer to it as, and shorter than "why is there a four year gap between your edits" - particularly as they came back to be an SPA.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:22 pm

SB_Johnny wrote:
560wasbullied wrote:Until then, do you have to disrupt this conversation about the BLP and cyberbullying?
There's a huge difference between cyberbullying and telling a flake to flake off.

It's also quite possible to simply ignore people on web forums.
lol context was ' a conversation *about* the BLP AND cyberbullying.

Not that he was cyberbullying me. but as you can see I did tell him to flake off none the less.

funny to see how easy misunderstanding is on forums.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:23 pm

Lukeno94 wrote:
Midsize Jake wrote:My impression of that was that it wasn't so much a "break," he just already had the account from his earlier foray (to create an article on "AL 0 1 2") and figured it would look better to use that than to create a whole new account. Established Wikipedians (such as yourself?) would see this as a "break" because they've been inculcated into the belief that everyone takes the whole thing really seriously.
I termed it as a "break" because it was the simplest thing to refer to it as, and shorter than "why is there a four year gap between your edits" - particularly as they came back to be an SPA.
i wasnt absent from Wikipedia, I did a few small edits here and there. I just never got involved deeply that's all.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Vigilant » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:27 pm

Lukeno94 wrote:
DanMurphy wrote: I find grown men whining about "bullying" when they exhibit no symptoms of having been actually bullied (you seem strangely aggressive and contemptuous of others, not cowed or frightened) and without presenting any evidence of it tedious. In fact I see it as a tactic to try to win some internet game, not a legitimate complaint. Forgive me for making that assumption, but I've seen this movie too many times before.
Although I'm generally inclined to agree with you wrt to lack of actual bullying, it can actually make people turn more aggressive - hence how people who are bullied often end up being bullies themselves.
Or even more to my liking, you go out and kick the everlivingshit out of the original bully.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Lukeno94 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:32 pm

Vigilant wrote:
Lukeno94 wrote:
DanMurphy wrote: I find grown men whining about "bullying" when they exhibit no symptoms of having been actually bullied (you seem strangely aggressive and contemptuous of others, not cowed or frightened) and without presenting any evidence of it tedious. In fact I see it as a tactic to try to win some internet game, not a legitimate complaint. Forgive me for making that assumption, but I've seen this movie too many times before.
Although I'm generally inclined to agree with you wrt to lack of actual bullying, it can actually make people turn more aggressive - hence how people who are bullied often end up being bullies themselves.
Or even more to my liking, you go out and kick the everlivingshit out of the original bully.
I may have done that on occasion in the past...

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Cedric » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:34 pm

560wasbullied wrote:
DanMurphy wrote: Yes don't ever talk about Egypt again. It's embarrassing for you.
Why would I bring up Egypt in a thread about you and your pals cyber bullying people on the internet?

and if I did, why would I be embarrassed?

I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain something that went over your head. Once you catch it, you may find the embarrassment is all yours.

Until then, do you have to disrupt this conversation about the BLP and cyberbullying?
If Dan has any fault here, it probably is that he is being too subtle. He is a journalist who has written a lot about the Middle East, and has spent a considerable amount of time there. I believe that what he was trying to tell you (and he will, I'm sure, soon enough correct me if I am wrong) is that you buried the needle on his woo meter.

Also, exactly who are "your pals cyber"? Is that a reference to the so-called "Rational Wiki," whom you identify as an opponent of yours? I don't know that much about the "Rational Wiki," despite identifying as a skeptic myself. The few people of whom I am aware that are connected to that site are all assholes; the others I know little or nothing about. I am aware that "UK Wikimedia spokesperson" David Gerard has a particular association with that site. I myself have referred to Mr Gerard as a "superannuated Goth and hairpiece model." I suspect that Dan has an even lower opinion of Gerard from what he has written here.

Just some FYI so you know who is who here.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by DanMurphy » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:38 pm

If Dan has any fault here, it probably is that he is being too subtle. He is a journalist who has written a lot about the Middle East, and has spent a considerable amount of time there. I believe that what he was trying to tell you (and he will, I'm sure, soon enough correct me if I am wrong) is that you buried the needle on his woo meter.
Got it in one.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:42 pm

DanMurphy wrote:
If Dan has any fault here, it probably is that he is being too subtle. He is a journalist who has written a lot about the Middle East, and has spent a considerable amount of time there. I believe that what he was trying to tell you (and he will, I'm sure, soon enough correct me if I am wrong) is that you buried the needle on his woo meter.
Got it in one.
Well nice to meet you dan.

congrats on your day job, sounds exciting

my talk still went over your head. but we flogged that horse already, eh?


EDIT: Lol, and I guess this means you definitely have a blog :rotfl: :rotfl: :banana: :deadhorse:
Last edited by 560wasbullied on Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:49 pm

Cedric wrote:
560wasbullied wrote:
DanMurphy wrote: Yes don't ever talk about Egypt again. It's embarrassing for you.
Why would I bring up Egypt in a thread about you and your pals cyber bullying people on the internet?

and if I did, why would I be embarrassed?

I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain something that went over your head. Once you catch it, you may find the embarrassment is all yours.

Until then, do you have to disrupt this conversation about the BLP and cyberbullying?
If Dan has any fault here, it probably is that he is being too subtle. He is a journalist who has written a lot about the Middle East, and has spent a considerable amount of time there. I believe that what he was trying to tell you (and he will, I'm sure, soon enough correct me if I am wrong) is that you buried the needle on his woo meter.

Also, exactly who are "your pals cyber"? Is that a reference to the so-called "Rational Wiki," whom you identify as an opponent of yours? I don't know that much about the "Rational Wiki," despite identifying as a skeptic myself. The few people of whom I am aware that are connected to that site are all assholes; the others I know little or nothing about. I am aware that "UK Wikimedia spokesperson" David Gerard has a particular association with that site. I myself have referred to Mr Gerard as a "superannuated Goth and hairpiece model." I suspect that Dan has an even lower opinion of Gerard from what he has written here.

Just some FYI so you know who is who here.
thx for clarifying Cedric, I did assume that Rational Wiki crowd was posting, perhaps it was something in the crankiness I noticed :)

I'm not sure what's 'woo' about the talk. Everyone is making all of these assumptions and they are failing to address the ONLY direct point that was being made. Social Media will eventually evolve to replace government as we know it today. that's what I believe. That's my message. that's what you or anyone can attack me on or accuse me of 'woo' over.

the biggest woo idea in the talk, is that Dan Dennet thinking computers may be conscious? is it that ayahausca is used in the amazon by 'doctors' who claim to talk with plants? Is that francis heylighen thinking networks can be conscious? is it maf and I for *wondering* if google search could also be conscious? Does it offend you that we ask?

Maybe it's just a style thing, I get it. Everything else in that talk is a story telling device, to get people to question things just enough so that maybe that can see that picture.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by DanMurphy » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:00 am

Social Media will eventually evolve to replace government as we know it today.
:picard:

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by EricBarbour » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:13 am

Social Media will eventually evolve to replace government as we know it today.
Even if, by some staggering freak condition, it does...... :rotfl:

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:22 am

DanMurphy wrote:
Social Media will eventually evolve to replace government as we know it today.
:picard:
I had the identical reaction.

You suppose, somehow, that social media "personalities" are more sophisticated, brutal, clever, insistent than political operatives??

You presume that social media wouldn't be destroyed outright at the first sign of a major power base within it...one that could threaten a government?

I have no words to describe how foolish you seem to me.
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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Lukeno94 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:32 am

The attention seeking smell of this thread is getting stronger and stronger...

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:52 am

Vigilant wrote: I had the identical reaction.

You suppose, somehow, that social media "personalities" are more sophisticated, brutal, clever, insistent than political operatives??
Why do you assume social media personalities would have anything to do with it? It's not that personalities would change, but process would change.

History is already on my side of the argument. Iceland started crowdsourcing it's constitution in 2011

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/j ... n-facebook

Clay Shirky already promoting this concept too

http://www.ted.com/talks/clay_shirky_ho ... SF.twitter

and this year, Google's singularity institute is sponsoring 'Bit Gov' - to find the disruptive platform for democracy that is similar to the Bit coin disruption in commerce.

http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/c ... z2o48xF6MZ

You presume that social media wouldn't be destroyed outright at the first sign of a major power base within it...one that could threaten a government?
Nope, never presumed that. It also does not make sense. How does 'social media' get destroyed?

I just assume that eventually, we will come to adopt this upgrade in process - we already have.
I have no words to describe how foolish you seem to me.
forward thinking ideas always seem foolish to those that cannot understand them. lol that's not a criticism - i take that as a compliment :rotfl:

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:55 am

EricBarbour wrote:
Social Media will eventually evolve to replace government as we know it today.
Even if, by some staggering freak condition, it does...... :rotfl:
ha! now that was funny :)

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by TungstenCarbide » Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:57 am

fascinating thread here ... just doin' my part;
Gone hiking. also, beware of women with crazy head gear and a dagger.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:01 am

Drink your koolaid.

I've been online a lot longer than you.
I've watched, with growing amusement, the trials and travails of the first "born online" generation.

You, like all previous generations, think you've discovered something new and paradigm changing. Facts in the real world are not changing anywhere near as fast as you think they are and pointing to other people with similar opinions is not convincing, given the sum of human history as a counterweight.

The fact that you have such angsty difficulty with the most feeble of social media platforms, en.wp, signals to me that your opinion of yourself vastly outstrips everyone else's. Feeble manchildren on a pretend encyclopedia have driven you, wailing about the unfairness of it all, to our bosom.

I, for one, have had enough of being your agony arm.

P.S. I thought of you.
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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by DanMurphy » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:21 am

Vigilant wrote:
DanMurphy wrote:
Social Media will eventually evolve to replace government as we know it today.
:picard:
I had the identical reaction.

You suppose, somehow, that social media "personalities" are more sophisticated, brutal, clever, insistent than political operatives??

You presume that social media wouldn't be destroyed outright at the first sign of a major power base within it...one that could threaten a government?

I have no words to describe how foolish you seem to me.
I've sometimes thought that the draft should be reintroduced solely to put an end to this foolishness (two years in the infantry, preferably somewhere getting shot at would work best).

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:28 am

TungstenCarbide wrote:fascinating thread here ... just doin' my part;
you made my night :)

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:35 am

fellas...what are we doing here? What's your beef exactly?
Vigilant wrote:Drink your koolaid.

I've been online a lot longer than you.
I've watched, with growing amusement, the trials and travails of the first "born online" generation.
I can actually hear a soundtrack to this...keep going

You, like all previous generations, think you've discovered something new and paradigm changing.
yes! this generation, like all generations that have discovered something new and paradigm changing.

I take it your the cynical type. I don't want to change you, truly.
Facts in the real world are not changing anywhere near as fast as you think they are and pointing to other people with similar opinions is not convincing, given the sum of human history as a counterweight.
How fast do I think they are changing?

The fact that you have such angsty difficulty with the most feeble of social media platforms, en.wp, signals to me that your opinion of yourself vastly outstrips everyone else's.
Yawn. I'm a boring subject matter and I fail to see how this has anything to do with social media replacing government. Then I fail to see how my support of the idea that social media *could* replace government has anything to do with being cyberbullied on the Sheldrake page.

Feeble manchildren on a pretend encyclopedia have driven you, wailing about the unfairness of it all, to our bosom.
that sounds disgusting :evilgrin:

I, for one, have had enough of being your agony arm.
I'll follow you on twitter!

P.S. I thought of you.
glad your a fan. feel free to follow me on twitter. together we can take over the NSA lol

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:37 am

DanMurphy wrote: I've sometimes thought that the draft should be reintroduced solely to put an end to this foolishness (two years in the infantry, preferably somewhere getting shot at would work best).
brilliant. I can't wait to see your TED talk.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Vigilant » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:44 am

"You're". For the love of god, "you're".
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by SB_Johnny » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:52 am

560wasbullied wrote:brilliant. I can't wait to see your TED talk.
:picard:
This is not a signature.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by greyed.out.fields » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:58 am

560wasbullied wrote:fellas...what are we doing here? What's your beef exactly?
Generally speaking, I'm here to read the gossip about Wikipedia and occasionally post YouTube videos that only superannuated goths would enjoy.

In the case of this particular thread, I'm here to watch you make a spectacle of yourself.
"Snowflakes around the world are laughing at your low melting temperature."

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by DanMurphy » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:02 am

greyed.out.fields wrote:
560wasbullied wrote:fellas...what are we doing here? What's your beef exactly?
Generally speaking, I'm here to read the gossip about Wikipedia and occasionally post YouTube videos that only superannuated goths would enjoy.

In the case of this particular thread, I'm here to watch you make a spectacle of yourself.
Man that took me back Greyed. And I quite enjoyed it. Thank you.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by EricBarbour » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:06 am


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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by 560wasbullied » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:20 am

greyed.out.fields wrote:[

In the case of this particular thread, I'm here to watch you make a spectacle of yourself.
now that's some swell life you got lol

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by greyed.out.fields » Sat Dec 21, 2013 2:47 am

DanMurphy wrote: Man that took me back Greyed. And I quite enjoyed it. Thank you.
200 km a week, listen to "Mixed up" at least once a week, album is about 80 minutes long, crashed bike and broke walkman approx every 1 1/2 years...
By my calculations, I would have bicycled a total of 16 640 kilometers in the 1990s listening to the record that version is on.
(I saw The Cure live in Sydney in 2000. They were quite a good Cure covers band.)

"Mixed Up" didn't include a remix of "Just like Heaven" - that would have been good. Which reminds me... Separated at birth? (Pixies, of course, came out on the wonderful 4AD records, which made them instantly and unquestionably goth-ceptable.)
"Snowflakes around the world are laughing at your low melting temperature."

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by DanMurphy » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:01 am

Ah, it's on. I went to school with David Lovering's brother. Which is neither here nor there. But I was always a huge pixies fan.

Of their "hits" this is probably the one that stands out for me:
And here's Kim Deal on playing bass:
Real. Bass. Players.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Cedric » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:11 am

greyed.out.fields wrote:Generally speaking, I'm here to read the gossip about Wikipedia and occasionally post YouTube videos that only superannuated goths would enjoy.

In the case of this particular thread, I'm here to watch you make a spectacle of yourself.
Sweet.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by tarantino » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:32 am

Cedric wrote: Sweet.
This is a music video thread now? Yeah, now this is sweet.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by DanMurphy » Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:45 am

Rufus and Chaka (note the order). Well played.

I could respond with this:
But that starts all kinds of fights (most important and true being that they aint playing).

So, let's move on:
Think I fixed the link.
Last edited by DanMurphy on Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by tarantino » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:00 am

DanMurphy wrote: So, let's move on:
That link's broken.

Who knew Robert Downey Jr. could sing? I didn't.

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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by TungstenCarbide » Sat Dec 21, 2013 4:03 am

DanMurphy wrote:So, let's move on:
I was thinking that too ... this thread could definitely use some Jpop! or cats, cats are always good.
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Re: A clear case of Cyberbullying on Wikipedia - my case

Unread post by Cedric » Sat Dec 21, 2013 5:03 am

TungstenCarbide wrote:
DanMurphy wrote:So, let's move on:
or cats, cats are always good.
. . . in Texas. Otherwise, perhaps less so . . .

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