IRC #wikipedia-en-help Q boomerang: notability, deletionism

BrillLyle · Unread post by **BrillLyle** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:44 am

So I created a page last night: Catalina Cruz (politician) (T-H-L)

Had a question about a disambiguation issue.

Went to the IRC #wikipedia-en-help for assistance with this technical issue.

Huon (T-C-L), who I think is an admin maybe (?), but is someone who is typically helpful over there, took it upon himself to (a) not address the technical questions I had but then (b) went outside the remit and turned the help request into a scrutiny of the subject's notability.

I'm livid. This is retaliatory. Why on earth would anyone be dumb enough to go for help if this is the experience?

I do BLPs all the time. I know how to establish notability. You all expressed varying levels of feedback that it was unnecessary to have at least 10 to my preferred 20 plus citations to support a new page. But here's an example of me doing everything correctly and getting dinged for it. If I wasn't so mad I would laugh. 20 plus citations wasn't even enough.

If this subject would have been a white man there would be no issue. Instead it's a woman of color, so blammo!

Here's the talk page thread. I am going to challenge the unacceptable warning he has posted on the page and restore the content he maliciously and wrong-headedly deleted.

Talk:Catalina_Cruz_(politician)#Regarding_my_recent_edits (T-H-L)

At this point, I so mad, but it's a constant thing. Consistent. If you add content of any kind, in any sort of constructive way, there's going to be an English Wikipedia editor who will throw WIKI:Rulez and abuse any bureaucratic power (either self-appointed or community-accepted) to aggressively delete content and push their own agendas.

Whether or not Huon understands what he did here, the end result is pushing good editors off Wikipedia. It's completely unacceptable.

- Erika aka ~~~~

Ming · Unread post by **Ming** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:02 am

Political candidate notability has always been very hard-nosed because of the large numbers of failed candidacies on the one hand and the tendency towards promotional articles on the other.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:04 am

Don't be too hard on Huon. When I clicked over to your article before I even read the rest of your post, the first thing I thought of was "not notable."

Unelected politician biographies get slaughtered at AfD and the chances of survival of this one are less than 15%.

Now what was the question again?

RfB

P.S. >>If this subject would have been a white man there would be no issue. Instead it's a woman of color, so blammo!

Nope. Doesn't matter about that. Unelected politician bios get slaughtered.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:07 am

Ming wrote:Political candidate notability has always been very hard-nosed because of the large numbers of failed candidacies on the one hand and the tendency towards promotional articles on the other.

Correct.

It is the one genre of biography in which GNG is tossed aside and a MORE stringent Special Notability Guideline is used instead.

RfB

BrillLyle · Unread post by **BrillLyle** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:16 am

Well, I have done everything I could do. This woman will be elected this fall, I'm pretty sure, and then I guess I will have to redo the article. It fucking sucks. These people are not protecting anything except their edit count.

And now this ongoing harasser and stalker Ca2james (T-C-L) is on my edits. If you look at his edit history he edits a lot of pages I edit. He also exhibits a poor grasp of understanding content as it relates to citations. I wish he would go edit elsewhere.

I can't believe I am no longer going to be able to use the IRC channel. This blows monkey chunks. Huon has lost my respect here. It was unnecessary what he did. A real jerk move on his part.

BrillLyle · Unread post by **BrillLyle** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:19 am

Randy from Boise wrote:Don't be too hard on Huon. When I clicked over to your article before I even read the rest of your post, the first thing I thought of was "not notable."

Unelected politician biographies get slaughtered at AfD and the chances of survival of this one are less than 15%.

P.S. >>If this subject would have been a white man there would be no issue. Instead it's a woman of color, so blammo!

Nope. Doesn't matter about that. Unelected politician bios get slaughtered.

Sorry I disagree here. On the bias thing and especially on Huon's behavior. He didn't need to do this. He made a choice here. It was retaliatory. 100% boomeranged back on me.

If I hadn't been an idiot and gone to the IRC channel the article would have been fine. I am really mad at myself for opening it up to such severe scrutiny.

The amount of scrutiny here is insane. No article and no editor can withstand this type of scrutiny. It is an impossible situation.

And now do-do bird #MyStalker Ca2James is saying I have too many citations. Which I did to establish notability. I can't win here.

Unread post by **Midsize Jake** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:35 am

I dunno, she seems "notable" enough to me, even without her having won the election... with the usual caveat of course that nobody should have to suffer the indignity of there being a Wikipedia article about themselves if they don't want one.

Do these "Huon" and "Ca2james" characters do this on a regular basis? It doesn't seem that way, which might lend some credence to a sexism allegation (not that this is a rarity on WP). In the latter's case, it might be reasonable to assume he was reading this very thread for some reason and decided that this might be a fun way to spend a Saturday night.

As for the other dude, it's unfortunate how that happened, but the Wikipedia IRC channels are notorious for that sort of person and that kind of behavior. I guess if there's one thing to be learned from an experience like this, "stay away from IRC Wikipedians" would probably be the #1 thing.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:10 am

Erika has produced a long list of references; they are ample to establish notability under WP:GNG. A blanket rule that unelected candidates are unlikely to be notable is absurd. Would you have applied that to say Ronald Reagan when he ran as governor of California (had Wikipedia existed then)? I won't mention Donald Trump.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:26 pm

BrillLyle wrote:Well, I have done everything I could do. This woman will be elected this fall, I'm pretty sure, and then I guess I will have to redo the article. It fucking sucks. These people are not protecting anything except their edit count.

And now this ongoing harasser and stalker Ca2james (T-C-L) is on my edits. If you look at his edit history he edits a lot of pages I edit. He also exhibits a poor grasp of understanding content as it relates to citations. I wish he would go edit elsewhere.

I can't believe I am no longer going to be able to use the IRC channel. This blows monkey chunks. Huon has lost my respect here. It was unnecessary what he did. A real jerk move on his part.

If this does get hauled to AfD and if it does get deleted, just request userfication, continue to work on the piece in user space, and port it back into mainspace after successful election.

I personally wish that all candidates for high office were automatically notable, but there is a rock solid consensus the other direction, unfortunately.

Sorry about your being harassed.

IRC sucks.

RfB

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:27 pm

Poetlister wrote:Erika has produced a long list of references; they are ample to establish notability under WP:GNG. A blanket rule that unelected candidates are unlikely to be notable is absurd. Would you have applied that to say Ronald Reagan when he ran as governor of California (had Wikipedia existed then)? I won't mention Donald Trump.

That's the 15% chance of a keep here.

t

P.S. @Erika. Get the part about her being an active candidate out of the lead and play up activist role documented below. Then it won't attract attention as a campaign bio (and would be more likely to avoid AfD where it would face the WEHATEPOLS SNG).

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:46 pm

Regardless of the subjects notability I think Huon is a jerk and a prime example of an admin that thinks they are more value to the project than anyone else. He hides out in IRC, watching the discussions and then goes to wiki to take action on things they saw there without ever having participated in the discussion.

BrillLyle · Unread post by **BrillLyle** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:54 pm

Randy from Boise wrote:
Poetlister wrote:Erika has produced a long list of references; they are ample to establish notability under WP:GNG. A blanket rule that unelected candidates are unlikely to be notable is absurd. Would you have applied that to say Ronald Reagan when he ran as governor of California (had Wikipedia existed then)? I won't mention Donald Trump.
That's the 15% chance of a keep here.

t

P.S. @Erika. Get the part about her being an active candidate out of the lead and play up activist role documented below. Then it won't attract attention as a campaign bio (and would be more likely to avoid AfD where it would face the WEHATEPOLS SNG).

Thank you both.

Ooh. Excellent advice. I reworked the article a bit and I think it's a lot more solid and has more neutrality. Just thinking about it this way was really helpful and I think is a lot more accurate of her ongoing advocacy and activism.

Thank you !!!

BrillLyle · Unread post by **BrillLyle** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:16 pm

And... you all were right.

Article has been AFD’d. Although many are claims that I addressed between time Huron threatened this retaliation thing and recent cleanup.

I will try to defend the article but Huon and Bearcat — his proxy here? — seem very heavily weighted in these instances, Nu?

Black Kite · Unread post by **Black Kite** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:30 pm

I'm not going to pitch in at the AfD, but unfortunately I too struggle to make "notable" out of that article at the moment. Practically none of the sources are actually about her - there are a couple that aren't bad, but again they're in the context of the upcoming election. Is she likely to win the election? If she is, I wouldn't worry about it anyway.

BrillLyle · Unread post by **BrillLyle** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:34 am

Black Kite wrote:I'm not going to pitch in at the AfD, but unfortunately I too struggle to make "notable" out of that article at the moment. Practically none of the sources are actually about her - there are a couple that aren't bad, but again they're in the context of the upcoming election. Is she likely to win the election? If she is, I wouldn't worry about it anyway.

Thank you? I guess?

That idiot -- and he's here so I'm being public with my disgust here -- Ca2james has taken it upon himself to "improve" the new article. He has deleted 10 of the 30 citations, all of which were carefully curated to support notability.

Who does that to a new page? I mean if this is the precedent, no new editor, or even experienced editor, has any motivation to create content.

Beside the fact that he has outright stalked my edits.

And Huon can be retaliatory with no checks on his behavior.

It's just a load of total horseshit. It's biased, stupid-minded, and un-constructive.

So when Cruz wins the election I will just re-do the page. She is notable now as a mid-career DREAMer working on immigration-related issues with Cuomo and others who are important figures at both the state and local level.

So I'm giving up. By the time Ca2james is done working his form of "magic" on the page it will have breadcrumbs and a grease stain to support notability.

Fuck this. I am appalled at the behavior happening here, in concert, too. It's seriously messed up and I have lost even more respect for the few remaining En Wiki editors who I thought were maybe okay. This kind of punative, unethical behavior is bullshit. It doesn't improve editor retention. It does more to hurt Wikipedia than any poorly sourced article on a white man ever does. These people have the guise of protecting Wiki as their excuse for this poor behavior. But they are the ones chopping down the trees in the rainforest. Utter horseshit.

The Garbage Scow · Unread post by **The Garbage Scow** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:46 pm

Best suggestion is to ask them to userfy it for you, then after the election, you can add more of the in-depth coverage they seem to want and move it back to livespace. That way you won't have to rewrite the whole thing.

Or, just copypasta the article as it stands today into your own sandbox, then you're not at the mercy of admins.

BrillLyle · Unread post by **BrillLyle** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:44 pm

Thanks.

Yes, I will userfly it for sure.

Still appalled at this. And hardly anyone will stand up in fight on this. Pretty clear it's against too many established Admins/Sysops and it's an obvious fetish point, the elected official approach.

If I would have known I would have gone with activist as the descriptor focusing on the DREAMer thing. It is actually more accurate, because this woman is obviously going to continue the work she is doing re: immigration.

I will also make sure there's Spanish Wikipedia version as well.

- Erika aka ~~~~

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:37 pm

Just FYI, when an article is deleted on Wikipedia it is often pulled into the speedy deletion wiki on Wikia here: http://speedydeletion.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Bezdomni · Unread post by **Bezdomni** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:12 pm

What is userfying that is more than just copy-pasting a file into a text editor and saving it? Is there some sort of fancy scripted modifying of links that happens or something? I don't understand why people are talking so much about userfyin'. Maybe it could be signpostified. (or, not) ^^

I'm certain Everipedia would have no problem with such a page, BrillLyle.

Sadly, Everipedia has already copied the less notable Catalina Cruz' page, which has been on en.WP for at least a dozen years and has survived:

an AfD in 2007
a speedy delete in 2006

I gather that article is ... what's that word I've seen floating around? .... ah yes, unassailable. So...

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:16 am

Bezdomni wrote:What is userfying that is more than just copy-pasting a file into a text editor and saving it?

Userfying is moving the article to user-space without leaving a redirect in mainspace. Categories are "commented out" by putting a colon in front, e.g.

[[Category:Sacred rivers]] → [[:Category:Sacred rivers]]

and a few other things may be done to make sure the userfied draft is kept out of maintenance queues.

This preserves the edit history of the article, which is important for attribution of contributors for the content that they contributed, and for the revision history statistics tool to accurately show authorship. Any cut-and-paste move is an act where the editor who does that usurps 100% of attribution for themselves.

When merging content, an edit summary should be left on the edit giving attribution for where it was copied from... oops, I'll bet the page history stats tool isn't sophisticated enough to go to the history of the merged article to give an accurate attribution pie chart for the article that the content was copied to.

No Ledge · Unread post by **No Ledge** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:48 am

I haven't looked at the article or the deletion discussion, but I hear Brill's complaints.

Personally I would give anyone who was a candidate for an office where they would be notable if they were serving in that office "temporary notability". The only requirement being that they actually be on the ballot, even if only as a write-in candidate. I suspect that many don't realize that not all write-ins are counted. A candidate must actually register as a write-in candidate with the Board of Elections to be considered a valid write-in candidate. In Ohio, anyway.

Most reliable local newspapers publish election guides profiling the candidates which would serve as sources.

Yeah, I know. Not news. Not. Wikipedia routinely covers breaking events in real time as they happen.

Neutral, free coverage of all candidates on Wikipedia would help level the playing field vs. the "Citizens United" candidates.

As soon as the election was over, all losing candidate articles would be deleted if they were only WP:BLP1E (T-H-L) known for being a losing candidate for public office.

The biggest issue I see in changing policy to support this would be the risk of volunteers being overrun by promotional content submitted by the campaigns. Maybe the opposition campaigns could be counted on to make sure the other candidates' articles remained neutral? Edit-warring campaign managers would risk being called out for edit-warring which wouldn't make their campaign look good.

Guido den Broeder · Unread post by **Guido den Broeder** » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:08 pm

Don't ever go to Wikipedia's IRC channels if you can avoid it, they're a cyberbully zone.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:03 am

Guido den Broeder wrote:Don't ever go to Wikipedia's IRC channels if you can avoid it, they're a cyberbully zone.

I'll vouch, Freenode IRC is a complete shitshow around the WMF channels.

BrillLyle · Unread post by **BrillLyle** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:53 am

An update:

The article was successfully deleted, so well done to Huon et al. for defending Wikipedia from content creation. Wikipedia is SAFE now! Whew!!!

This last comment from the AfD -- bold highlights mine -- really says it all. I am editing Wikipedia because of this, and establish notability because of this. This guy is a true idiot.

from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... olitician)

Delete as is consistent with other candidates for office who did not previously have a claim to notability. It is disturbing that claims of notability are being made based on gender, race, ethnicity, and country of origin. None of these are things that should be even considered when assessing notability. It also does not matter that she worked with Governor Cuomo, since notability is WP:NOTINHERETED--Rusf10 (talk) 21:35, 24 March 2018 (UTC)

Cruz is going to win this fall so this was super dumb. An exercise in futility.

And now it is clear the IRC is another extension of a bad space on Wikipedia.

I have also come to understand that posting on Wikipediocracy flags My Stalker™ aka Ca2james (T-C-L) to stalk my edits so I am probably not going to post here much if at all.

It was swell folks. I'm pretty much on an extended WikiBreak too. Maybe I'll take up weaving and English paper piecing again. Whee!

I'm pretty bummed out about this

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:04 pm

Just wait until she is elected and request undeletion. This is really nothing special. This is usual for candidates for political office who have yet to win a significant election and have no real claim to notability otherwise.

Randy from Boise · Unread post by **Randy from Boise** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:08 pm

Anroth wrote:Just wait until she is elected and request undeletion. This is really nothing special. This is usual for candidates for political office who have yet to win a significant election and have no real claim to notability otherwise.

This is correct. That article was in AfD trouble at first glance. It sucks that it was flagged in the way it was flagged, but that entire process was entirely predictable as soon as it began. After successful election, it's an auto-keep and will be safe forever.

RfB

P.S. That Rusf10 guy is an arch-deletionist and a real piece of work.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:40 pm

Rusf10 is a good example of a "positive" editor that does more to contribute to the HTD and downfall of Wikipedia than any of us critics. He does more damage by using Wikipedia's own policies against them than any of us.

Unread post by **Midsize Jake** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:25 pm

BrillLyle wrote:I have also come to understand that posting on Wikipediocracy flags My Stalker™ aka Ca2james (T-C-L) to stalk my edits so I am probably not going to post here much if at all.

This is why we can't have nice things...

Personally, I'd say Mr. Ca2james should endeavor to be nicer, develop at least a rudimentary ability to self-reflect, and behave more in a way that's closer to what one would expect from someone who has these kinds of userboxes, lest he be consistently labeled a hypocrite or even just a common "troll." Unfortunately, he's on Wikipedia, so... not likely, I guess.

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:29 pm

Midsize Jake wrote:
BrillLyle wrote:I have also come to understand that posting on Wikipediocracy flags My Stalker™ aka Ca2james (T-C-L) to stalk my edits so I am probably not going to post here much if at all.
This is why we can't have nice things...

Personally, I'd say Mr. Ca2james should endeavor to be nicer, develop at least a rudimentary ability to self-reflect, and behave more in a way that's closer to what one would expect from someone who has these kinds of userboxes, lest he be consistently labeled a hypocrite or even just a common "troll." Unfortunately, he's on Wikipedia, so... not likely, I guess.

Well, you cannot trust a Canadian so....

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:40 pm

Anroth wrote:
Midsize Jake wrote:
BrillLyle wrote:I have also come to understand that posting on Wikipediocracy flags My Stalker™ aka Ca2james (T-C-L) to stalk my edits so I am probably not going to post here much if at all.
This is why we can't have nice things...

Personally, I'd say Mr. Ca2james should endeavor to be nicer, develop at least a rudimentary ability to self-reflect, and behave more in a way that's closer to what one would expect from someone who has these kinds of userboxes, lest he be consistently labeled a hypocrite or even just a common "troll." Unfortunately, he's on Wikipedia, so... not likely, I guess.
Well, you cannot trust a Canadian so....

We need to build a wall to keep them out...

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:54 pm

Anroth wrote:Well, you cannot trust a Canadian so....

What, not even Pamela Anderson (T-H-L)?

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:46 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Anroth wrote:Well, you cannot trust a Canadian so....
What, not even Pamela Anderson (T-H-L)?

Would you trust someone who thought 'Barb Wire' was a good career choice?

Unread post by **Zoloft** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:18 am

Anroth wrote:
Poetlister wrote:
Anroth wrote:Well, you cannot trust a Canadian so....
What, not even Pamela Anderson (T-H-L)?
Would you trust someone who thought 'Barb Wire' was a good career choice?

Or who thought that PETA is a good choice for a charity?

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:26 am

PETA=People Enjoying Tasty Animals!

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:17 am

It allows her to pose for anti-fur adverts.

link https://naotw-pd.s3.amazonaws.com/style ... k=tEetHd7f[/link]

MadManz · Unread post by **MadManz** » Sun May 20, 2018 12:11 pm

At this point deletionism is equivalent to vandalism, jesus can people accept content being added. I understand deleting completely unnotable/nonsense/unreasonably negative BLPs but going after everything that isn't FA worthy is basically being a nuisance to the site.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Sun May 20, 2018 8:25 pm

MadManz wrote:going after everything that isn't FA worthy is basically being a nuisance to the site.

I don't think thata topic has to be exceptionally noteworthy for its article to get FA status. And of course, if someone says that an article isn't up to FA standard then bu the usual Wikipedia convention, it's up to him or her to fix it.

AndyTheGrump · Unread post by **AndyTheGrump** » Sun May 20, 2018 9:17 pm

MadManz wrote:At this point deletionism is equivalent to vandalism, jesus can people accept content being added. I understand deleting completely unnotable/nonsense/unreasonably negative BLPs but going after everything that isn't FA worthy is basically being a nuisance to the site.

Depends if you are trying to create an encyclopaedia, or running a self-publishing website for semi-literate obsessives. Though doing the latter probably attracts more funds for the WMF...

Anroth · Unread post by **Anroth** » Sun May 20, 2018 11:51 pm

AndyTheGrump wrote:
MadManz wrote:At this point deletionism is equivalent to vandalism, jesus can people accept content being added. I understand deleting completely unnotable/nonsense/unreasonably negative BLPs but going after everything that isn't FA worthy is basically being a nuisance to the site.
Depends if you are trying to create an encyclopaedia, or running a self-publishing website for semi-literate obsessives. Though doing the latter probably attracts more funds for the WMF...

That's why Jimbo started wikia after all...

MadManz · Unread post by **MadManz** » Mon May 21, 2018 12:09 am

Only in death wrote:
AndyTheGrump wrote:
MadManz wrote:At this point deletionism is equivalent to vandalism, jesus can people accept content being added. I understand deleting completely unnotable/nonsense/unreasonably negative BLPs but going after everything that isn't FA worthy is basically being a nuisance to the site.
Depends if you are trying to create an encyclopaedia, or running a self-publishing website for semi-literate obsessives. Though doing the latter probably attracts more funds for the WMF...
That's why Jimbo started wikia after all...

True enough.

BrillLyle · Unread post by **BrillLyle** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:19 pm

This article just came out about Catalina Cruz’ disambiguation problem.

https://qz.com/1352568/running-for-offi ... -it-worse/

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:24 pm

Huon is an idiot. He just hangs out on IRC and harassesd and hounds people. I have no respect for them at all.

You're right though, if this was about a porn star or a man Huon would have been fine with it I have no doubt.

Just a recommendation, in the future you're probably better off going to the Discord channel instead of IRC. Its a bigger community and more helpful.

Bezdomni · Unread post by **Bezdomni** » Sat Aug 18, 2018 4:42 pm

BrillLyle wrote:This article just came out about Catalina Cruz’ disambiguation problem.

https://qz.com/1352568/running-for-offi ... -it-worse/

As BrillLyle says, the article is easy enough for "an expert" having followed the discussion to find. § For Google, not so much. There are 353 members of the Category:American pornographic film actresses (T-H-L) and 22 members of Category:New York (state) politicians (T-H-L) (though there are 500+ in the subcategory Category:Politicians from New York City (T-H-L)). This latter is a bit of a nonsense category since it only refers to politicians born there.

Wikipedia

Bernie Sanders is notably absent from that category. (also worth noting may be that there is no sub-sub-category for Queens, though there is one for the Bronx, Brooklyn, & Manhattan...) The Schumers makes it onto the Category:Politicians from Brooklyn (T-H-L) list, but Bernie doesn't.

Totally unrelated, except because of some of your other contributions I've read, but I just recently noticed with the insource:"" slicer/dicer that the Church of Scientology is linked to more than six times as often as the AME church.

Bezdomni · Unread post by **Bezdomni** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:11 am

This article is slowly climbing up the Google newsfeed. It's on page 4 at the moment.

MadManz · Unread post by **MadManz** » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:33 am

Another page where I made dumb posts

Dysklyver · Unread post by **Dysklyver** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:23 am

Some other person (totally not my sock) has found a problem with IRC and it's mafiosa protection squad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... tions_page
User:Seahawk01/IRC (T-C-L)

Hello, I am proposing to remove the information on IRC chat from this page. The freenode IRC chat channels are not in any way affiliated with Wikipedia, so I think providing information here is very misleading and makes new users think it is an official part of the Wikipedia project.

There are some additional things to note:

no oversight by Wikipedia of the IRC channels
outside Wikipedia's formal channels and procedures
no IRC public logs
no records of discussions that lead to edits
no voting for IRC mods on Wikipedia
Wikipedia can easily host an IRC server if the project needs it
no tags on edits due to IRC conversations, so no tracking
all in all, I find it very much the opposite of the procedures found on Wikipedia.

I will make the change and remove the information, but wanted to give a bit of notice first.
Seahawk01 (talk) 01:56, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

lolol

No chance.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:13 pm

all in all, I find it very much the opposite of the procedures found on Wikipedia.

Sounds good.

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:13 pm

Poetlister wrote:
all in all, I find it very much the opposite of the procedures found on Wikipedia.
Sounds good.

Another point to make here is that although IRC is listed on multiple places on Wiki as a place to go, very few mention the Wikipedia Discord page which the last time I looked had well over 400 different people using it which is more than all the IRC channels combined. Of course the way they work is different so it's not a completely fair comparison, but it still should be listed.

Poetlister · Unread post by **Poetlister** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:14 pm

Kumioko wrote:Another point to make here is that although IRC is listed on multiple places on Wiki as a place to go, very few mention the Wikipedia Discord page which the last time I looked had well over 400 different people using it which is more than all the IRC channels combined. Of course the way they work is different so it's not a completely fair comparison, but it still should be listed.

Odd. I wonder why on earth anyone would want to cover up something called Wikipedia Discord. :irony:

Kumioko · Unread post by **Kumioko** » Mon Dec 17, 2018 10:25 pm

Poetlister wrote:
Kumioko wrote:Another point to make here is that although IRC is listed on multiple places on Wiki as a place to go, very few mention the Wikipedia Discord page which the last time I looked had well over 400 different people using it which is more than all the IRC channels combined. Of course the way they work is different so it's not a completely fair comparison, but it still should be listed.
Odd. I wonder why on earth anyone would want to cover up something called Wikipedia Discord.

Rofl, probably because I am the one that created the channel.