Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

For discussions on privacy implications, including BLP issues
User avatar
Mancunium
Habitué
Posts: 4105
kołdry
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 pm
Location: location, location

Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Mancunium » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:10 pm

Why Is Wikipedia Deleting All References To Neil Tyson’s Fabrication?
Neil Tyson's Internet defenders sure are cultish and anti-science.
bu Sean Davis, The Federalist, 18 September 2014 linkhttp://thefederalist.com/2014/09/18/why ... brication/[/link]
[UPDATE: Early this morning, in a discussion thread about whether references to Neil deGrasse Tyson's history of quote fabrication should be added to Tyson's Wikipedia page, an editor stated that "no version of this event will be allowed into the article."]

Religious fanatics have an odd habit of overreacting when people have the audacity to question their fanaticism. In Iraq, radical Islamic jihadists are systemically murdering and beheading Christians, Jews, and even Muslims who do not pledge fealty to ISIS’s religious tenets. Hundreds of years ago, church authorities and Aristotelian acolytes placed Galileo under house arrest for having the audacity to reject geocentrism in favor of heliocentrism. The Bible recounts how Christians were persecuted and stoned, and Jesus himself was crucified for contradicting the religious dogma of the day. You will bow to the religious zealots, or you will pay the price. Which brings us to l’affaire de Tyson. Neil Tyson, a prominent popularizer of science (he even has his own television show) was recently found to have repeatedly fabricated multiple quotes over several years. The fabrications were not a one-off thing. They were deliberate and calculated, crafted with one goal in mind: to elevate Tyson, and by extension his audience, at the expense of know-nothing, knuckle-dragging nutjobs who hate science. Tyson targeted journalists, members of Congress, even former President George W. Bush. And what was their crime? They were guilty of rejecting science, according to Tyson. [...] Which brings us to Wikipedia. Oh, Wikipedia. After I published my piece about Neil Tyson’s fabrication of the George W. Bush quote, several users edited Neil Tyson’s wiki page to include details of the quote fabrication controversy. The fact-loving, evidence-weighing, ever-objective editors of the online encyclopedia did not appreciate the inclusion of the evidence of Tyson’s fabrication. Not at all. [... and so on, in some considerable detail ...]
Neil_deGrasse_Tyson (T-H-L)
former Living Person

User avatar
AndyTheGrump
Habitué
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:44 pm
Wikipedia User: AndyTheGrump (editor/heckler)

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by AndyTheGrump » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:06 pm

Who exactly is claiming that "Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS"? Nobody that I can see...

User avatar
Mancunium
Habitué
Posts: 4105
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 pm
Location: location, location

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Mancunium » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:25 pm

AndyTheGrump wrote:Who exactly is claiming that "Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS"? Nobody that I can see...
Jeez, but you're a sucker for an eye-catching headline.

Sean Davis begins his story by comparing the Wikipedia editors who are sympathetic to Dr Tyson to, "radical Islamic jihadists" who "are systemically murdering and beheading Christians, Jews, and even Muslims who do not pledge fealty to ISIS’s religious tenets." He goes on to compare them to the Inquisition, and to those who crucified Christ, "for contradicting the religious dogma of the day."

"Which brings us to Wikipedia": part of the same immemorial mob of genocidal ISIS murderers and Christ-killers.
former Living Person

User avatar
Ming
the Merciless
Posts: 2983
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Ming » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:37 pm

Not to mention that Sean Smith and his organizations are right-wing fronts. Ming is not too pleased with Tyson's sloppiness (Faraday a fundamentalist? Give unto Ming a break) but there's politics going on here too.

User avatar
The Devil's Advocate
Habitué
Posts: 1908
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:19 am
Wikipedia User: The Devil's Advocate

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by The Devil's Advocate » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:42 pm

LOL ISIS. LOL Zero Serenity (T-C-L). There seems to be nothing about this story that isn't ridiculous.

"For those who stubbornly seek freedom around the world, there can be no more urgent task than to come to understand the mechanisms and practices of indoctrination."

- Noam Chomsky


EricBarbour
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Location: hell

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by EricBarbour » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:45 pm

The Devil's Advocate wrote:There seems to be nothing about this story that isn't ridiculous.
Not unusual either. Who's crazier, you can't tell.

Zero Serenity, definitely cuckoo. (He also blogged about the Federalist articles.)

User avatar
AndyTheGrump
Habitué
Posts: 3193
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:44 pm
Wikipedia User: AndyTheGrump (editor/heckler)

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by AndyTheGrump » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:46 pm

Mancunium, pointing out that your headline is a complete fabrication doesn't make me a 'sucker'. Though I'm sure people will note the irony in you fabricating a headline in a thread supposedly about the invention of quotations...

User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Poetlister » Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:18 pm

Ming wrote:(Faraday a fundamentalist? Give unto Ming a break)
He had some fairly loopy religious views, which aren't mentioned in detail in the WP article but are of importance; because of them, he turned down a knighthood and the chance to be President of the Royal Society.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

User avatar
Mancunium
Habitué
Posts: 4105
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 pm
Location: location, location

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Mancunium » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:19 pm

AndyTheGrump wrote:Mancunium, pointing out that your headline is a complete fabrication doesn't make me a 'sucker'. Though I'm sure people will note the irony in you fabricating a headline in a thread supposedly about the invention of quotations...
I was not mocking you, Mr Grump. I was mocking Mr Davis's ridiculously over-the-top hyperbole.

Please feel free to ask the site's administrators to change the title of this thread to "The Federalist says Neil deGrasse Tyson's BLP is being edited by people as evil as the head-chopping murderers of ISIS, the sadists of the Inquisition, and the killers of Jesus Christ".
former Living Person

User avatar
Hersch
Retired
Posts: 3719
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:09 am
Wikipedia User: Herschelkrustofsky
Wikipedia Review Member: Herschelkrustofsky

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Hersch » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:44 pm

AndyTheGrump wrote:Mancunium, pointing out that your headline is a complete fabrication doesn't make me a 'sucker'. Though I'm sure people will note the irony in you fabricating a headline in a thread supposedly about the invention of quotations...
:iknowiknow:
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
Malcolm X


User avatar
Zoloft
Trustee
Posts: 14046
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Nom de plume: William Burns
Location: San Diego
Contact:

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Zoloft » Fri Sep 19, 2014 12:24 am

Hersch wrote:
AndyTheGrump wrote:Mancunium, pointing out that your headline is a complete fabrication doesn't make me a 'sucker'. Though I'm sure people will note the irony in you fabricating a headline in a thread supposedly about the invention of quotations...
:iknowiknow:
Mancunium is not a fabricator, but instead is an artisan.

My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
  • Actual mug ◄
  • Uncle Cornpone
  • Zoloft bouncy pill-thing


User avatar
Notvelty
Retired
Posts: 1780
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:51 am
Location: Basement

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Notvelty » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:34 am

AndyTheGrump wrote:Mancunium, pointing out that your headline is a complete fabrication doesn't make me a 'sucker'. Though I'm sure people will note the irony in you fabricating a headline in a thread supposedly about the invention of quotations...
Our resident gentry (gentriatric?) was much miffed at the loss of Johann Hari.
-----------
Notvelty

User avatar
Mancunium
Habitué
Posts: 4105
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 pm
Location: location, location

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Mancunium » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:26 pm

9 Absurd Edit Justifications By Wikipedia’s Neil Tyson Truthers
The Federalist, 23 September 2014 [link]http://thefederalist.com/2014/09/23/8-a ... -truthers/[/link]
[...] End of story, right? Not so much, thanks to Pravda’s heirs at Wikipedia. Wikipedia, you see, is run by editors who love facts, reason, evidence, and science. Boy do they love science. And facts. And also evidence. They LOVE those things. But they don’t adore anything as much as they adore Neil Tyson, their high priest, and unsavory facts about their shaman of science will not be tolerated. Since the Tyson fabrication scandal broke, Wikipedia’s little army of tinpot propagandists has been hard at work shoving facts and evidence down the memory hole. To date, Tyson’s Wikipedia page has been revised at least 60 times since the story broke last week. Every time a reference to the scandal is added, a Tyson Truther removes it. [...] Anyhow, the total delusion of Tyson’s Truthers at Wikipedia really must be seen to be believed. It’s that absurd. So here are the 9 most absurd edits and comments by Neil Tyson’s cultists at Wikipedia (the last one is my personal favorite). [...] Keep in mind, these are actual quotes from Wikipedia editors discussing why it’s okay to airbrush history in order to protect their precious prophet.

1.
Image
2.
Image
3.
Image
4.
Image
5.
Image
6.
Image
7.
Image
8
Image.
9.
Image
former Living Person

User avatar
Mancunium
Habitué
Posts: 4105
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 pm
Location: location, location

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Mancunium » Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:40 pm

Neil deGrasse Tyson’s Text-Burning Followers
What happens when you love science so much that you have to make war on facts?
by Tim Cavanaugh, National Review, 22 September 2014 [link]http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... -cavanaugh[/link]
Somebody is trying to destroy evidence that celebrity scientist Neil deGrasse Tyson fabricated evidence. The esteemed director of New York’s Hayden Planetarium and star of the remade Cosmos television show is going through an ion storm of criticism from the Federalist’s Sean Davis, who has so far presented persuasive cases that Tyson fabricated a newspaper headline and a quote from an unnamed member of Congress, along with a starry-eyed religious statement from former president George W. Bush. Davis also claims Tyson tells several slippery versions of a jury-duty anecdote in which Tyson outwits an unnamed judge. [...] Tyson’s extremely zealous followers, meanwhile, have taken their hero’s misuse of the facts (which may have been merely careless) to an even more disturbing level: willful suppression of information. Criticizing Tyson is not recommended for any person desiring a peaceful life. The astronomer’s acolytes are fiery, tireless, and enormously self-satisfied, capable of supernova reactions to quark-sized provocations. Since Davis began cataloging Tyson’s misstatements, the Tysonians have subjected him to a Puppis A–class flaming. Per Davis:
[...] When it was reinserted, it was deleted yet again by an editor who describes himself as a childless progressive and an apostle of Daily Kos (h/t @kerpen). Here are just a few of that user’s political ramblings, in case you were curious about the motivation behind the scrubbing of Tyson’s wiki. [...] Yet another commenter felt compelled to photoshop my face, as if I’m not goofy-looking enough already. One suggested my critique of Tyson was due entirely to racism. Then came the bizarre accusations of homosexuality (I’m still incredibly confused as to why that’s supposed to be an insult, especially coming from a very liberal community that professes open-minded tolerance), which were of course followed by the violent sexual fantasies of several Fark commenters.
In Wikipedia’s free-ranging editorial process, it’s not unusual to see disputed claims come and go. But after a week in which nobody has presented evidence that the quotes Tyson passed around actually exist, the site has been stripped of even a “citation needed” reference to the issue. [...] Davis notes that the discussion of the edits on Wikipedia has been the opposite of scientific. “There is no evidence that the quotes Tyson made exist,” he says. “But the thrust of it is that there is a burden on me to produce a negative. The conversation among the Wikipedia editors has included comments to the effect that it hasn’t been proven that the statement doesn’t exist. It’s Kafkaesque. It’s just bonkers.”

This being 2014, there is a Right/Left political dimension: The Daily Beast’s Tim Mak wrote Friday that Davis’s revelations are part of “the right’s war on Neil deGrasse Tyson.” While Mak’s reporting is quite fair, his emphasis is strange: If America’s leading public scientist is playing loose with facts, that — and not the politics of the self-deprecating schmo who points it out — is the story. [...] For his part, the dogged Davis is continuing his effort to prove the negative. In an article Monday, Bush’s former chief of staff and several of his speechwriters refute the claim that the 43rd president said “Our God is the God who named the stars” after the 9/11 attacks. And just for balance, here is a fabricated deGrasse Tyson quote:
Neil Degrasse Tyson @Warden_AoS

Behold the empire of science loving rationalists I'm building on Twitter. We are legion! We are unstoppable! Our science will RULE THE WORLD
10:39 PM - 18 Sep 2014
Tyson’s carelessness, and the suppressive inclinations of his followers, raise another troubling concern about the role of the de facto Scientist Laureate during a period that Thomas Kuhn defined as “normal science.” The idea of the scientific “consensus” is a popular one these days. Indeed, the shorthand that there is “90 percent agreement” on anthropogenic global warming is too modest; by this point at least 150 percent or 300 percent of scientists agree. But the real world is not Family Feud. It doesn’t matter what the survey says. It matters what is true. [...] Tyson will, and maybe should, get a pass on his made-up quotes. But for the good of celebrity scientists everywhere, he should take a lesson from it: One minute you’re this generation’s hero of sweet reason; the next you’re leading a torch-bearing mob bent on wiping out heterodoxy.

— Tim Cavanaugh is news editor of National Review Online. Follow him on Twitter and Facebook.
Note to AndyTheGrump: Tim Cavanaugh is not trying to make you believe that Wikipedians are actually and in fact a torch-bearing mob bent on wiping out heterodoxy. He is using Hyperbole (T-H-L)
Hyperbole (/haɪˈpɜrbəliː/ hy-PUR-bə-lee;[1] Greek: ὑπερβολή hyperbolē, "exaggeration") is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. It may be used to evoke strong feelings or to create a strong impression, but is not meant to be taken literally.[2][3] [...] In rhetoric, some opposites of hyperbole are meiosis, litotes, understatement, lackluster, prosaic, dull and bathos [...]
former Living Person

User avatar
Mancunium
Habitué
Posts: 4105
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 pm
Location: location, location

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Mancunium » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:09 am

Cosmically Dishonest
The Weekly Standard, 23 September 2014 [link]http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/ ... 05319.html[/link]
Astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson seems like an unlikely candidate for celebrity, but he’s hawking something liberal America desperately wants: the sense of satisfaction that comes from pretending you’re smarter than others, without actually thinking too hard. [...] Perhaps not surprisingly, Tyson is an obnoxious atheist and a political totem. In July, Bill Maher claimed that Republicans dislike Tyson simply because he is a black scientist (nothing to do with his baseless attacks on faith and climate-change credulity) [...] Well, it turns out that Tyson’s condescending shtick doesn’t hold up too well when subjected to peer review. At the Federalist, writer Sean Davis has been chronicling a number of ways in which Tyson’s lectures and anecdotes are more truthy than true. [...] The most egregious is this anecdote about George W. Bush, which has been a staple of Tyson’s lectures:
“Our God is the God who named the stars.” .  .  . The problem is that two-thirds of all stars that have names have Arabic names. I don’t think he knew this. That would confound the point that he was making. “Our God is the God”—he’s loosely quoting Genesis, biblical Genesis—“Our God is the God who named the stars.” .  .  . The problem is that two-thirds of all stars that have names have Arabic names. I don’t think he knew this.
George W. Bush did make a remark that bears a resemblance to this, but it was two years later, in his speech following the Columbia space shuttle disaster, a context that had nothing to do with 9/11 or with Islam. “The same Creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today,” Bush said. [...] But why let truth and literacy get in the way of bashing George W. Bush and his crazy sky-God? Odds are good this is the first you’ve heard of the story, despite Tyson’s celebrity. After Davis reported this falsehood, not a single mainstream outlet picked up on the story of one of America’s most famous scientists fabricating this anecdote and recycling it for years. Moreover, after several behind-the-scenes debates, Wikipedia editors have rigorously deleted anything less than flattering from Tyson’s bio. On the few websites that have deigned to cover the story, the reaction has been mostly shrieking about how the right-wing is out to get Tyson and attacking the messenger. [...] It will be interesting to see if he drops the Bush bit from his spiel. Based on the media silence and legions of Tyson defenders who prefer his made-up facts to honest inquiry, we’re guessing he won’t.
Notvelty wrote:Our resident gentry (gentriatric?) was much miffed at the loss of Johann Hari.
:sadbanana:
former Living Person

User avatar
Zoloft
Trustee
Posts: 14046
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:54 pm
Wikipedia User: Stanistani
Wikipedia Review Member: Zoloft
Actual Name: William Burns
Nom de plume: William Burns
Location: San Diego
Contact:

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Zoloft » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:30 am

It's always weird when politics impinges on Wikipedia, because the political mix there is random, except for one element: bad behavior, no matter which faction.

My avatar is sometimes indicative of my mood:
  • Actual mug ◄
  • Uncle Cornpone
  • Zoloft bouncy pill-thing


User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:49 pm


User avatar
Hersch
Retired
Posts: 3719
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:09 am
Wikipedia User: Herschelkrustofsky
Wikipedia Review Member: Herschelkrustofsky

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Hersch » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:42 pm

AKA "POV fork."
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
Malcolm X


User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31695
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Vigilant » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:05 pm

Hersch wrote:
AKA "POV fork."
The guy who created the article has a Sarah Palin barnstar on his userpage....

You can't make this shit up.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
Mancunium
Habitué
Posts: 4105
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 pm
Location: location, location

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Mancunium » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:27 pm

What makes an accusation Wiki-worthy?
by Jonathan H. Adler, The Washington Post, 24 September 2014 [link]http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volo ... ki-worthy/[/link]
Wikipedia aspires to be a neutral source of verifiable information about just about everything of import. The problem is that sometimes people disagree about what information is relevant or credible. This is particularly the case for politically charged subjects, such as political figures or policy matters over which ideological partisans disagree. The result is that the more controversial the subject matter, the more one has to approach a Wiki page with caution. The Wikipedia page for Neil deGrasse Tyson is a case in point. As I noted here, Sean Davis has made a powerful case that noted scientist Neil Degrasse Tyson has a tendency to embellish stories in his speeches and public remarks. Most notably, it appears that Tyson wrongly attributed remarks to former President George W. Bush in order to portray the former president in a particularly unflattering light. [...] The charge is also the sort of claim that a scholar of Tyson’s statute should be able to substantiate. Yet as of this writing, neither Tyson nor his representatives have offered any support for the claim, or otherwise responded to the accusation.

So a credible accusation of wrongdoing has been made against a prominent public figure, and the charge has been noted in numerous publications. Including this on a Wiki page is a no-brainer, right? Apparently not. I understand why Wikipedia editors might not want to take sides on the underlying question, as more facts may yet emerge. Yet the fact of the accusation itself would seem to be the sort of thing that would be included in the subject’s Wikipedia page, provided it is referenced in a neutral manner (e.g. “Tyson has been accused of . . . “). Since the charges were made there has been a mini-editing war over this portion of Tyson’s Wiki page. No doubt some of this is due to ideological partisanship. Some “intelligent design” proponents and climate skeptics would to take Tyson down a peg, as would some other conservatives. Others seem just as eager to safeguard his reputation at all cost. Indeed, some of the arguments against referencing Tyson’s alleged fabrication are quite amusing. Again, however, the charge is out there, and it seems quite credible. It’s not as if someone is claiming Tyson’s speeches were written by Bill Ayers. All this goes to show that while Wikipedia has its uses, when a Wiki page covers matters that are the subject of ideological dispute, the reader should be wary.

Jonathan H. Adler teaches courses in constitutional, administrative, and environmental law at the Case Western University School of Law, where he is the inaugural Johan Verheij Memorial Professor of Law and Director of the Center for Business Law and Regulation.
Interesting comment thread.
former Living Person

User avatar
Hersch
Retired
Posts: 3719
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:09 am
Wikipedia User: Herschelkrustofsky
Wikipedia Review Member: Herschelkrustofsky

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Hersch » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:57 pm

Mancunium wrote:What makes an accusation Wiki-worthy?
by Jonathan H. Adler, The Washington Post, 24 September 2014 [link]http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volo ... ki-worthy/[/link]
Wikipedia aspires to be a neutral source of verifiable information about just about everything of import. The problem is that sometimes people disagree about what information is relevant or credible. This is particularly the case for politically charged subjects, such as political figures or policy matters over which ideological partisans disagree. The result is that the more controversial the subject matter, the more one has to approach a Wiki page with caution. The Wikipedia page for Neil deGrasse Tyson is a case in point. As I noted here, Sean Davis has made a powerful case that noted scientist Neil Degrasse Tyson has a tendency to embellish stories in his speeches and public remarks. Most notably, it appears that Tyson wrongly attributed remarks to former President George W. Bush in order to portray the former president in a particularly unflattering light. [...] The charge is also the sort of claim that a scholar of Tyson’s statute should be able to substantiate. Yet as of this writing, neither Tyson nor his representatives have offered any support for the claim, or otherwise responded to the accusation.

So a credible accusation of wrongdoing has been made against a prominent public figure, and the charge has been noted in numerous publications. Including this on a Wiki page is a no-brainer, right? Apparently not. I understand why Wikipedia editors might not want to take sides on the underlying question, as more facts may yet emerge. Yet the fact of the accusation itself would seem to be the sort of thing that would be included in the subject’s Wikipedia page, provided it is referenced in a neutral manner (e.g. “Tyson has been accused of . . . “). Since the charges were made there has been a mini-editing war over this portion of Tyson’s Wiki page. No doubt some of this is due to ideological partisanship. Some “intelligent design” proponents and climate skeptics would to take Tyson down a peg, as would some other conservatives. Others seem just as eager to safeguard his reputation at all cost. Indeed, some of the arguments against referencing Tyson’s alleged fabrication are quite amusing. Again, however, the charge is out there, and it seems quite credible. It’s not as if someone is claiming Tyson’s speeches were written by Bill Ayers. All this goes to show that while Wikipedia has its uses, when a Wiki page covers matters that are the subject of ideological dispute, the reader should be wary.

Jonathan H. Adler teaches courses in constitutional, administrative, and environmental law at the Case Western University School of Law, where he is the inaugural Johan Verheij Memorial Professor of Law and Director of the Center for Business Law and Regulation.
Interesting comment thread.
Not a bad article, other than the presumption that "climate skeptics" must necessarily be "conservatives."
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
Malcolm X


EricBarbour
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Location: hell

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by EricBarbour » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:07 pm

I put all this on the book wiki. Now I need to get the stench out of my nostrils.

User avatar
Mancunium
Habitué
Posts: 4105
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 pm
Location: location, location

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Mancunium » Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:00 pm

EricBarbour wrote:I put all this on the book wiki. Now I need to get the stench out of my nostrils.
I am sorry to say that the stench is only increasing.

Wikipedia Is Now Trying To Eliminate The Federalist’s Online Entry
The Federalist, 26 September 2014 [link]http://thefederalist.com/2014/09/26/wik ... ine-entry/[/link]
Yep. It just happened. The science-loving censors at Wikipedia, not content with memory-holing unassailable facts about Neil Tyson’s history of fabricating quotes (part 1, part 2, and part 3), are now trying to completely erase The Federalist from Wikipedia. Seriously, take a look: ['considered for deletion' notice on WP's article on Thefederalist.com (T-H-L). The deletion demand was made on Friday morning by user “Cwobeel,” who claimed that The Federalist “does not pass the threshold for notability.” The same user ironically describes himself in his Wikipedia profile as “a member of the Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians.” Really? The Federalist doesn’t pass the threshold for notability? If The Federalist doesn’t pass that threshold, it’s hard to imagine who does. Our work has been regularly featured by literally every single major publication, site, and cable news outlet in the U.S., including the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Politico, The Daily Beast, Huffington Post, Real Clear Politics, the Drudge Report, Slate, Daily Caller, Salon, Washington Examiner, Free Beacon, Vox, National Review, Weekly Standard, Forbes, Think Progress, The Blaze, and so on. I could go on, and on, and on. We’ve interviewed politicians, major authors, and even cultural icons like Dave Barry and David Mamet. We’ve been on Fox News and MSNBC and CNN. Senators ask us to publish their columns. Likely presidential candidates sit down for interviews with us. Our reach, influence, and impact are undeniable.

Unless, of course, you need to deny our existence in order to further the pretense that Neil Tyson is infallible. Because that’s what this is really about. [...] This attempt to completely eliminate any mention whatsoever of The Federalist on Wikipedia is laughable and beyond pathetic, but it’s exactly what you’d expect from a group of delusional dimwits who have convinced themselves that justice consists entirely of just hitting the delete key over and over again. It’s cute when toddlers close their eyes and believe that nobody can see them, but when adults do it, it’s just sad. But keep it up, Wikipedia. Keep up the fiction that if you just burn enough books, all will be made well. Keep up the fiction that your censorship will make this issue go away, rather than just fueling the fire. Keep reminding people why Wikipedia should never, ever be trusted to provide the facts on any topic that is even remotely controversial. Keep disappearing facts and evidence you don’t like while desperately clinging to the science fiction that you totally love facts and evidence. You can’t win. If you strike us down, we’ll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
Conservative Website ‘The Federalist’ Targeted For Wikipedia Deletion After Criticizing Neil deGrasse Tyson
The Daily Caller, 26 September 2014 [link]http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/26/the-f ... sse-tyson/[/link]
[...] Federalist editors noticed Friday that Wikipedia’s entry for TheFederalist.com ”is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia’s deletion policy.” When The Daily Caller checked early Friday afternoon, the page was deleted. It was later restored, but is still being considered for deletion. “That’s Wikipedia for you, man. They’re inclusive,” Federalist editor Ben Domenech told TheDC. “It seems to clearly be a reaction to our coverage of the Wikipedia process and how it was treating Neil deGrasse Tyson’s obviously fabricated quote from George W. Bush.” [...] “I would never be in a cult unless it had schnazzy robes,” Domenech said, referring to deGrasse Tyson’s fan base. “Obviously Neil deGrasse Tyson is right, the science is settled, and we must be erased like we never even existed.” “It’s not like the entry on us was all that informative, but the very fact we were on there was an insult to the Wikipedia community,” Domenech said. “This is like a birthday present to us. We're irritating the right kinds of people, people who can’t even admit when their praised messiah is wrong about something. I’m glad we irritate them.” “It’s funny to see how these Wikipedia crowds have gotten even more intense,” Domenech added. “Kevin Williamson was speaking at Heritage and pointed out that as the Left gets more exhausted it also gets more authoritarian. [...]
Sean Davis: Wikipedia’s scrubbing of Neil deGrasse Tyson controversy ‘would make China proud’
Twitchy, 25 September 2014 [link]http://twitchy.com/2014/09/25/sean-davi ... ina-proud/[/link]
[... ditto, and a long thread of twitchy tweets for your consideration ...]
Why Is Wikipedia Removing References to Neil deGrasse Tyson Misquoting George W. Bush?
Christian Post, 25 September 2014 [link]http://www.christianpost.com/news/why-i ... sh-127037/[/link]
[...] Robert Draper of The New York Times and ABC News' Terry Moran also weighed in, via Twitter, criticizing Tyson for fabricating the quote. The controversy has since been covered by Breitbart, The Daily Beast, The Friendly Atheist, The Washington Post, and The Weekly Standard. [...]
former Living Person

User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Poetlister » Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:20 pm

If the Federalist wasn't notable before, it will be now. Indeed, you could probably justify an article on "Federalist deletion controversy".
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

User avatar
Hersch
Retired
Posts: 3719
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:09 am
Wikipedia User: Herschelkrustofsky
Wikipedia Review Member: Herschelkrustofsky

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Hersch » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:00 pm

There do not appear to be any "good guys" in this particular saga.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
Malcolm X


User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:48 pm

Interesting Twitter thread, in which Wales is drawing some heat. See the replies to this tweet by clicking on this link.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:58 pm

Some more wonderful Jimboisms here.
More here.
Sean Davis got it in one.

User avatar
Mancunium
Habitué
Posts: 4105
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:47 pm
Location: location, location

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Mancunium » Sun Sep 28, 2014 5:02 pm

Hersch wrote:There do not appear to be any "good guys" in this particular saga.
Reminds me of this fight between two disgusting insects:
former Living Person

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by HRIP7 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:13 pm

Between Sean Davis and the Gamergate crowd laying into him, Wales got a bid edgy. First time I've seen Wales swear in public.
(The guy had accused him of siphoning Wikipedia donations away to pay for his yacht.)
He recovered his composure though.
The guy complied.

EricBarbour
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Location: hell

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by EricBarbour » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:46 pm

And with that, Twitter looks more than ever like an AN/I thread or Jimbotalk. Replete with censorship.

User avatar
Jim
Blue Meanie
Posts: 4955
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:33 am
Wikipedia User: Begoon
Wikipedia Review Member: Jim
Location: NSW

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Jim » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:59 pm

Jimbo wrote:You had best be careful about posting criminal accusations against someone who can fucking hear you.
How many unsubstantiated accusations of criminal behaviour does wikipedia hold at any given time?
What are you doing, really, Jimmy, hand on thoughtful heart, to make sure the whole world doesn't "hear", and maybe believe, those random accusations from any unidentified nutter with internet access?

User avatar
Vigilant
Sonny, I've got a whole theme park full of red delights for you.
Posts: 31695
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 8:16 pm
Wikipedia User: Vigilant
Wikipedia Review Member: Vigilant

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Vigilant » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:25 pm

Jimmy Wales ‏@jimmy_wales 24h

@vpostrel @BillFrezza @FDRLST The difference is that we are transparent. Our debates are held in public. It confuses people. :)
Jimmy Wales, you lying shitheel.
Most of your "debates" are held on private mailing lists, IRC and Skype.
Hello, John. John, hello. You're the one soul I would come up here to collect myself.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by HRIP7 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:58 am

Having gotten heat on Twitter over locked-down Wikipedia pages, Jimmy Wales unprotected the Tyson biography. The result was an edit war, in the course of which all reference to the quote controversy was removed; then the article was protected in that version.

Conservatives will not be happy.

EricBarbour
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Location: hell

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by EricBarbour » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:02 am

HRIP7 wrote:Having gotten heat on Twitter over locked-down Wikipedia pages, Jimmy Wales unprotected the Tyson biography. The result was an edit war, in the course of which all reference to the quote controversy was removed; then the article was protected in that version.
And I have no doubt this was "coordinated", if you can call this shit "coordination", on IRC or via private email. "It never happened."

Gobonobo (T-C-L) removed the section, then CambridgeBayWeather (T-C-L) showed up 52 minutes later and locked the article.
Yessir, Jimmy, nossir, Jimmy.

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by HRIP7 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:32 pm

EricBarbour wrote:
HRIP7 wrote:Having gotten heat on Twitter over locked-down Wikipedia pages, Jimmy Wales unprotected the Tyson biography. The result was an edit war, in the course of which all reference to the quote controversy was removed; then the article was protected in that version.
And I have no doubt this was "coordinated", if you can call this shit "coordination", on IRC or via private email. "It never happened."

Gobonobo (T-C-L) removed the section, then CambridgeBayWeather (T-C-L) showed up 52 minutes later and locked the article.
Yessir, Jimmy, nossir, Jimmy.
What bugs me is that The Federalist are right in claiming that the playing field isn't level. Tyson is not the first person to have been accused of fabricating a quote attributed to an unloved politician.

Look at the Carl Cameron (T-H-L) bio. The article was created by Fuzheado (T-C-L) (otherwise known as Andrew Lih) in 2004. It read as follows then:
Carl Cameron is a television reporter for FOX News Channel in the United States, and has served as political correspondent following presidential candidates George W. Bush in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004. He served as chief political correspondent during the 2004 United States presidential election.

On October 4, 2004, he was the center of controversy, when a parody he wrote with fabricated quotes attributed to John Kerry was accidentally posted publicly to the FOX News web site. (Screen snapshot of parody article [1]).

Quotes in his story included, "Women should like me! I do manicures," "Didn't my nails and cuticles look great? What a good debate!" and "I'm metrosexual — [Bush's] a cowboy." FOX News management apologized for the "error" saying it was the result of "fatigue and bad judgment." Cameron, however, was not suspended or fired for the incident.


He attended Bates College and Boston University.
Now, this is a coatrack, plain and simple. It's 147 words, and 94 of them are about the quote controversy. WP:ADAM (T-H-L) in action. And it was created on 5 October 2004, one day after the date mentioned. What was the point of creating that article on that day? What are the chances that Lih votes Republican? The point surely was to publicise the gaffe, and get a dig in at a conservative. 10 years later, that incident still represents a good quarter of Cameron's biography (82 out of 325 words):
In 2004, Cameron posted a news story on the Fox News website which included fabricated quotes from John Kerry, in which the Senator purportedly called himself a "metrosexual" and Bush a "cowboy" and spoke effeminately about a manicure. Official Fox News spokesman Paul Schur later said it was intended to be an internal joke not for publication, and the network apologized for the piece, but only on its website, and only through a tag on the article in which these quotes appeared.[6][7]
Now, Tyson's biography is 3,700 words long, all of it laudatory. It's a fucking hagiography. And they still cannot see their way clear to include 20 words about the controversy. And the controversy is genuine enough: Bush never said what Tyson claimed he said – even Tyson admits that now, that he mixed up the two events. It was quite properly slanderous.
It's shit like this that gives liberals a bad name. (Speaking as a lily-livered bleeding-heart libbrul myself, if I had to align myself with any political side.)

User avatar
Hersch
Retired
Posts: 3719
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:09 am
Wikipedia User: Herschelkrustofsky
Wikipedia Review Member: Herschelkrustofsky

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Hersch » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:06 pm

This is now looking like blog post material. Any volunteers? The issue of double standards is one that I think deserves major emphasis.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
Malcolm X


User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Poetlister » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:15 pm

Hersch wrote:
AKA "POV fork."
Deleted, of course.
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

EricBarbour
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Location: hell

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by EricBarbour » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:38 pm

Hersch wrote:This is now looking like blog post material. Any volunteers?
Andreas just did most of it. I might have time to distill it this weekend, not sure yet. Perhaps we might also mention the "Guerrilla Skeptics" and other internal favoritism of recent vintage. (Sorry, Connolley, you're done.)

User avatar
Hersch
Retired
Posts: 3719
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:09 am
Wikipedia User: Herschelkrustofsky
Wikipedia Review Member: Herschelkrustofsky

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Hersch » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:04 pm

EricBarbour wrote:
Hersch wrote:This is now looking like blog post material. Any volunteers?
Andreas just did most of it. I might have time to distill it this weekend, not sure yet. Perhaps we might also mention the "Guerrilla Skeptics" and other internal favoritism of recent vintage. (Sorry, Connolley, you're done.)
Actually, after some thought, I'd like to pull this one together myself. And you're right, Connolley definitely belongs in the mix - a "BLPs as battlefields" theme.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
Malcolm X


EricBarbour
 
Posts: 10891
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:32 pm
Location: hell

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by EricBarbour » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:56 pm

Hersch wrote:Actually, after some thought, I'd like to pull this one together myself. And you're right, Connolley definitely belongs in the mix - a "BLPs as battlefields" theme.
We have plenty of other examples of WP BLP favoritism, exclusive of obvious paid/COI editors. You could mention the business involving articles about Heritage Foundation, Reason Foundation, and especially Cato Institute which is getting real friendly with Wikipedians in DC.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5192
viewtopic.php?p=107359#p107359

User avatar
thekohser
Majordomo
Posts: 13408
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:07 pm
Wikipedia User: Thekohser
Wikipedia Review Member: thekohser
Actual Name: Gregory Kohs
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by thekohser » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:38 am

EricBarbour wrote:
Hersch wrote:Actually, after some thought, I'd like to pull this one together myself. And you're right, Connolley definitely belongs in the mix - a "BLPs as battlefields" theme.
We have plenty of other examples of WP BLP favoritism, exclusive of obvious paid/COI editors. You could mention the business involving articles about Heritage Foundation, Reason Foundation, and especially Cato Institute which is getting real friendly with Wikipedians in DC.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5192
viewtopic.php?p=107359#p107359
Don't forget the Susan Burke biography manipulation by conservative agents.
"...making nonsensical connections and culminating in feigned surprise, since 2006..."

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by HRIP7 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:31 pm

Tyson has apologised to President Bush.
Partial Anatomy of My Public Talks
30 September 2014 at 03:47


Objectives

My goal in almost all public appearances is to communicate the passion of science & discovery. My talks are drawn from a small catalog of about a dozen topics that range from science literacy in America and the world, to space exploration, to the cosmic perspective, to the search for life in theuniverse. No matter the size of the venue, I try to create the sense of a conversation with the audience -- as though they and I are both revealing the information for the first time, at the same time.


Wardrobe

I own a half-dozen cosmically themed vests and another 100+ cosmically themed ties. Among them, I'm more likely to be seen in only two of the vests and about adozen of the ties, they being my favorites. In large theater performance venues, I often remove my shoes. I can move more nimbly on the stage, but I also do so as a matter of silent respect for the countless performers -- singers, dancers, musicians – who have previously sanctified the stage with their artistic talents.


Q&A

My favorite part of any talk is the Q&A, where I get to learn what people are thinking. My first and third books are entirely Q&A, so I’ve been doing it for awhile:

http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/ ... e-universe
http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/ ... his-planet

Learning what people think after my talks formed a crucial point of awareness for me before the era of Twitter. Now, via that social medium, I learn people’s thoughts and reactions to what I say almost instantly. But I still welcome a session of one-on-one exchanges with an audience. I invest huge energy in this capacity to communicate with a demographically diverse audience: e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB-11B9PtBM


Content

My talks are a blend of facts, ideas, and perspectives. I care primarily that the audience becomes empowered with new tools of seeing and understanding the physical universe, and enjoys new ways those tools can inform decisions in the socio-political world, whatever your political leanings may be.

I do not speak from notes. So, depending on the time of day, the recent news cycle of current events, and the leanings, humor, and enthusiasm of the audience, I will be creating what I say on the spot. The scaffold is there. The words I use to clad it are unique to the moment. So when I get calls from hosts who ask, “Please send the talk in advance.” My reply is, “My talk is the talk. It does not exist before I give it.”


A Case Study: Quoting George W. Bush

For a talk I give on the rise and fall of science in human cultural history I occasionally paraphrase President George W. Bush from one of his speeches, remarking that our God is the God who named the stars, and immediately noting that 2/3 of all star-names in the night sky are Arabic. I use this fact to pivot from the present-day, back to a millennium ago, during the Golden Age of Islam, in which major advances in math, science, engineering, medicine, and navigation were achieved. The Bush reference is not written on my PowerPoint slides, which I keep sparse, but I remembered it from a speech he gave after September 11, 2001. And I presented it that way, as Bush’s attempt to distinguish “we” from 'they." When eager scrutinizers looked for the quote they could not find it, and promptly accused me of fabricating a Presidential sentence. Lawyers are good at this. They find something that you get wrong, and use it to cast doubt on everything else you say. Blogosphere headlines followed, with accusations of me being a compulsive liar and a fabricator.

What followed fascinated me greatly. As others had uncovered, the President indeed utter the following sentences:

In the words of the prophet Isaiah, "Lift your eyes and look to the heavens. Who created all these? He who brings out the starry hosts one by one and calls them each by name. Because of his great power and mighty strength, not one of them is missing." The same creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today.

But I was wrong about when he said it. It appears in his speech after the Columbia Shuttle disaster, eighteen months after September 11th 2001. My bad. And I here publicly apologize to the President for casting his quote in the context of contrasting religions rather than as a poetic reference to the lost souls of Columbia. I have no excuse for this, other than both events-- so close to one another -- upset me greatly. In retrospect, I’m surprised I remembered any details from either of them.

Of course, very little changes in that particular talk. I will still mention Islamic Extremists flying planes into buildings in the 21st century. I will still contrast it with the Golden Age of Islam a millennium earlier. And I will still mention the President’s quote. But instead, I will be the one contrasting what actually happened in the world with what the Bible says: The Arabs named the stars, not Yahweh.


Why I Give Public Talks

If I were to rank the top twenty things I love to do, giving public talks would not make the cut. What does? Doing scientific research. Writing books. Playing with my kids. Having a play-date with my wife. Eating homemade very-buttery popcorn while watching a movie curled up on the couch with the family. Reading antiquarian science books. Taking notes for my next book with quill and fountain pens by candlelight. Attending Broadway plays and musicals. Listening to jazz and classical music. Drinking malted milkshakes. Cooking dinners that are fancier than the day of the week deserves. Drinking a bottle of wine that is just a little more expensive than can be realistically justified. And cooking & eating waffles for breakfast. e.g. http://www.reddit.com/r/photoshopbattle ... _a_waffle/

I nonetheless continue give talks because, knowing what I know about the physical universe – and our place within it – I’d be socially irresponsible if I did not.

Respectfully Submitted
Neil deGrasse Tyson, New York City

User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:56 am


User avatar
Hersch
Retired
Posts: 3719
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:09 am
Wikipedia User: Herschelkrustofsky
Wikipedia Review Member: Herschelkrustofsky

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Hersch » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:13 pm

Question: do the editors who tried to insert criticism into the Tyson article have a prior history of squabbling over ciimate change?
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
Malcolm X


User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Poetlister » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:14 pm

HRIP7 wrote:Tyson has apologised to President Bush.
Partial Anatomy of My Public Talks
30 September 2014 at 03:47
Does that make it notable?
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche


User avatar
HRIP7
Denizen
Posts: 6953
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:05 am
Wikipedia User: Jayen466
Wikipedia Review Member: HRIP7
Actual Name: Andreas Kolbe
Location: UK

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by HRIP7 » Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:50 pm

The fighting has now moved to the article on The Federalist itself. Unflattering sources used include an article on Seeking Alpha (T-H-L), a crowdsourced site, "by professor of economics and finance Mark Perry" (Mark J. Perry (T-H-L)). In contrast, no mention of the Tyson controversy has been allowed to date, although lots of rather more prominent sources including Politico, Salon, The Daily Beast, The National Review, The Tampa Tribune, The Weekly Standard, The Washington Free Beacon, the Washington Post's Volokh Conspiracy, The New York Post, The Oregonian, The Salt Lake Tribune and others all have published comments on it.

There is now a 25,000-word discussion of this at the BLP noticeboard. Sometimes Wikipedia space warps ...

I see this going to arbitration yet.

collect
Regular
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:43 pm
Wikipedia User: Collect

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by collect » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:06 pm

Hersch wrote:Question: do the editors who tried to insert criticism into the Tyson article have a prior history of squabbling over ciimate change?
No.

User avatar
Poetlister
Genius
Posts: 25599
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:15 pm
Nom de plume: Poetlister
Location: London, living in a similar way
Contact:

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by Poetlister » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:29 pm

collect wrote:
Hersch wrote:Question: do the editors who tried to insert criticism into the Tyson article have a prior history of squabbling over ciimate change?
No.
Do you mean the accounts or the editors behind the accounts?
"The higher we soar the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche

collect
Regular
Posts: 310
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:43 pm
Wikipedia User: Collect

Re: Neil deGrasse Tyson BLP is being edited by ISIS

Unread post by collect » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:42 pm

Poetlister wrote:
collect wrote:
Hersch wrote:Question: do the editors who tried to insert criticism into the Tyson article have a prior history of squabbling over ciimate change?
No.
Do you mean the accounts or the editors behind the accounts?

The issue has, in point of fact, nothing whatsoever to do with climate change in any way. Dr. Tyson frequently recited an anecdote about former President George W. Bush with the intent, apparently, of painting him as ignorant of the great Arabic history of astronomy, and of using his ignorance to make a divide between "us" and "Muslims." That quote and that anecdote in no way at any point intersect with the issue of climate change.

A website noted that the anecdote was false in its basis - that the fact is Bush made no such attempt to deride Muslims at any such point, and that the only similar quote was in regard to commemorating the dead Columbia astronauts. Among the dead astronauts were a Hindu and a Jew. One might note ironically that the Indian astronomers were also noteworthy, with texts dating back to 1000 BC and earlier (possibly to 1600 BC). Most of the famed Arab astronomers were a couple of thousand years later than the Indians.

In any case, it became evident that the anecdote was ill-founded, and Dr. Tyson thanked those who found the correct words of Bush. In none of the matters was climate change connected, none of the Wikipedia editors seem to have remotely considered climate change as a reason to include the issue about the ill-suited anecdote, and the claim that this is all a plot by climate change deniers to defame Dr. Tyson is inapt.

Post Reply